Do Germans think Sven Ottke was unbeaten? [Archive]

colinthfc

12-31-2008, 02:42 PM

The only fights I watched were the Robin Reid and David Starie ones. I understand they were not the only dodgy decisions. Despite this Sven fought in packed arenas through out his career.

Hand on heart - Would do you honestly think his record should read.

Germany a hotbed for world boxing has missed out on so many stars from the USA and UK not wanting to have their belts pick pocked from them

emanuel_augustus

01-01-2009, 08:42 AM

I'm not German but here's my take:

33-1 isn't unreasonable. The Starie fight was close but not an overwhelming robbery. The Reid fight was.

If you watch most of Ottke's fights earlier in his career he outboxed many a bomber and legitimately earned decisions. One of the fights people question is the first Brewer fight. That was a close match that really could have tipped either way, not all that controversial. Ottke clearly won the rematch.

I thought he clearly beat Tate, Johnson, Mitchell, etc. Mundine had the formula to beat Ottke--make him be the aggressor and get him out of his defensive, amateur style. It worked until he got ko'd.

To conclude, my opinion is that much of the controversy is overblown by people who either A. haven't seen the fights they complain about or B. don't know how to score rounds.

Ottke was a very crafty defensive minded counterpuncher who wasn't always Mr. Excitement but befuddled many a physically superior foe with his ring intelligence.

riggers

01-01-2009, 04:08 PM

Which is what boxing is, a skill or art, that allows you to defeat a physically superior fighter

dwilson

01-02-2009, 08:14 AM

Apart from the Reid fight Ottke could easily say he deserved every win he got and although the Reid decidion was bad it was not the worst we have seen. Reid had an habit of getting those decisions against him.

catasyou

01-02-2009, 12:30 PM

He lost to Johnson,Larsen,Reid,Starie and at least one Brewer fight IMO.

TommyV

01-02-2009, 01:11 PM

He clearly lost against Reid, I think he also lost in the first Brewer fight and against Johnson. I'd therefore have him 31-3 or whatever.

Tom_Tocca

01-02-2009, 01:11 PM

He lost to Johnson,Larsen,Reid,Starie and at least one Brewer fight IMO.

Ottke never lost to Johnson but clearly decisioned him 116-113...same with the Starie fight.

Though, he lost Brewer in their initial match up. Larsen fight could have gone either way...Reid was robbed...

sean

01-02-2009, 04:53 PM

i only had him losing twice.

brewer 1
reid.

ottke fought johnson in what looked like a 30 foot ring, it was huge, and easily outboxed johnson , then knowing he was ahead on the scorecards the fight won, he ran the rest of the fight , losing rounds , but taking no risks at all and won on the scorecards.

watch the fight and watch johnson virtually get mad with frustration in the ring.
he was fuming mad during the fight.

not fair that ottke new the score and what he had to do, but that was his big advantage in every fight and the reason he fought the way he did in many fights and the reason why he had so many close fights on the scorecards.

Bo Bo Olson

01-02-2009, 06:34 PM

The problem with Reid is a judge is not supposed to count cuffed punchs, in that a cuffed punch is illegal.... and Reid cuffed a hell of a lot. Then he changed his stratagy in the 8th, and lost the rest of the rounds.

Until his last fight, I thought Ottka had the most inaccurate right hand in boxing. In his last fight he wanted to KO the guy, and suddenly was popping the guy in the jaw with his right hand, all night long.....Shocked me.
The whole of his championship figts was to pop the guy in the shoulder from round one on, the old one jab to the face, and two straight right to the shoulder.....so the opponent after 8 rounds of shoulder pounding,, couldn't hook or jab in the last 3 or 4 rounds, and take those rounds clear.

catasyou

01-02-2009, 07:24 PM

Ottke never lost to Johnson but clearly decisioned him 116-113...same with the Starie fight.

Though, he lost Brewer in their initial match up. Larsen fight could have gone either way...Reid was robbed...116-113 is anything but clewar.Anyway it's my opinion,you don't have to share it.

Serenata

01-03-2009, 05:36 AM

The Reid fight is nothing to be proud of for Sven. Despite this only robbery he hat some close decisions.

33-1 on the honest list.

The main problem is that he had a very unique sometimes not so fun to watch style so many tend to not give him close rounds...

tonsetzer

01-03-2009, 09:04 PM

I just would like to know who many of the guys who claim Ottke lost this and that have actually seen those fights. Dont want to offend anyone but this myth, Ottke clearly lost 3 or 4 fights, is just ....a myth. There were controversial fights, and i wouldnt argue if someone scores them for his opponent, but Ottke never clearly lost. Even the Reid fight was close as hell. This fight had the worst referee ever. I remember Reid throwing a looping right and getting a warning therefore. The whole fight was indeed pathetic, cause the ref was surely a hometown ref, and got Reed out of his rythm. It was a controersial fight, and with a neutral ref, Reed would have one. Like it went with this ref, you can make a argument that it was just controversial.

T.C.W

01-04-2009, 04:43 AM

he lost the first bewer fight

jisi

01-04-2009, 01:34 PM

He lost to Johnson,Larsen,Reid,Starie and at least one Brewer fight IMO.

:good

dwilson

01-05-2009, 08:13 AM

Ottke would have beaten Calzaghe back in the day.

PrideOfWales

01-05-2009, 10:33 AM

Ottke would have beaten Calzaghe back in the day.

Probably

SOMERSETDURAN

01-05-2009, 03:52 PM

Ottke should have at least four losses on his record.

Calzaghe would have owned him.

ashley

01-06-2009, 10:04 AM

Nope he never got beat.....read the paper :hey

Boro chris

01-07-2009, 09:38 AM

01-07-2009, 10:07 AM

However much a man runs and hides, 2 punches a round does not beat Joe Calzaghe.

Calzaghe wouldve beaten him comprehensively.

dwilson

01-07-2009, 10:57 AM

Calzaghe would have lost by UD.

DarkDestroyer83

01-07-2009, 11:52 AM

Don't know about some of his "wins" but any boxer who KO's Mundine gets my respect:thumbsup

sean

01-07-2009, 03:37 PM

IMO the reason why his whole career should be considered a fraud.
Having that sort of advantage is shockingly unfair.
How did you find out about this anway sean?

they used a camera like you get in a casino to look down on the judges scorecards, and these were then relayed to the corner.

they did not try to hide it, i saw the scorecards myself many times on german tv.

mads larson v ottke was a prime example.

this fight had hardly a punch landed, going into the last round you could not call it.

in the last round ottke knowing he was ahead on the scorecard , got on his bike and never threw a punch in 3 mins winning by s/d.

ApatheticLeader

01-07-2009, 07:28 PM

ANYONE who says Ottke lost the Johnson fight hasn't seen it. It was probably the clearest 7-5 you could EVER see.

zico2010

01-07-2009, 07:53 PM

Ottke would have beaten Calzaghe back in the day.

Back in the day in some alternate universe where everything is the wrong way round :rofl

zico2010

01-07-2009, 07:54 PM

they used a camera like you get in a casino to look down on the judges scorecards, and these were then relayed to the corner.

they did not try to hide it, i saw the scorecards myself many times on german tv.

mads larson v ottke was a prime example.

this fight had hardly a punch landed, going into the last round you could not call it.

in the last round ottke knowing he was ahead on the scorecard , got on his bike and never threw a punch in 3 mins winning by s/d.

Sneaky germans. Wouldnt be surprised if they put a fucking towel on Ottke's opponents stool to stop him sitting on it.

Broxi

01-08-2009, 09:38 AM

Germany is in a shit state at the moment inre: boxing, it has got to the point that most international boxers do not believe they have a fair chance of a win against a popular fighter in Germany, I'm sure of it.

Look at the recent Valuev / Holyfield bout. Something has to be done there soon.

Serenata

01-08-2009, 10:39 AM

The threadtitle is: "Do Germans think Sven Ottke was unbeaten?" not "Do brits think germany is the evil country of boxing".

PS: @Broxi: Even boxing experts around the world do not agree if Holyfield did enough to win this bout...

It´s easy to always blame someone else...

dwilson

01-08-2009, 02:27 PM

fidds

01-08-2009, 03:17 PM

Ottke would have beaten Calzaghe back in the day.

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

Good one for secound there i thought you said ottke would of beat joe :lol:

:patsch no way u meant it :lol:

Joe would of beat the snot out of him, there :lol:was r:lol:eason ottke didn't want any part:lol: of joe

cockneyhardman

01-09-2009, 03:02 AM

Probably

actually if the fight was in germany and calzaghe didn't knock him out, then ottke would win by a corrupt decision
if calzaghe knocked him out he would probably be disqualified

rapidfire

01-09-2009, 07:16 AM

Off course he was unbeaten, look into his record ! There were some close decisions, but imo no robbery.

catasyou

01-09-2009, 11:25 AM

Off course he was unbeaten, look into his record ! There were some close decisions, but imo no robbery.Fuck off noob,the Reid fight was the most shamefull robbery in the last decade.And I'm not even mentioning the rest.

Boro chris

01-09-2009, 03:16 PM

they used a camera like you get in a casino to look down on the judges scorecards, and these were then relayed to the corner.

they did not try to hide it, i saw the scorecards myself many times on german tv.

mads larson v ottke was a prime example.

this fight had hardly a punch landed, going into the last round you could not call it.

in the last round ottke knowing he was ahead on the scorecard , got on his bike and never threw a punch in 3 mins winning by s/d.

Bloody Hell!:patsch
Damn the Hun and his fiendish ways!!

Serenata

01-09-2009, 05:55 PM

We know you mix with Turks who are evil cheating scum.

I must admit that Oener is complete bullsh**, no question about that.

Every country has it´s bad decisions. It happens in the US, in the UK and everywhere in the world. And surely the Reid fight was one of them...

dwilson

01-10-2009, 04:45 AM

I must admit that Oener is complete bullsh**, no question about that.

Every country has it´s bad decisions. It happens in the US, in the UK and everywhere in the world. And surely the Reid fight was one of them...

No offence intended by me.

Germany does have a reputation for the poor decisions and so too Italy but I have seen like you say bad decisions in Britain and America plus certain poor refereeing in many countries.

Bo Bo Olson

01-10-2009, 08:10 PM

In Germany of course, cuffed punchs don't count Ottka could win, in England were illegal punches count no. And it was Cal that was dodging Ottka, offering Ottka with two belts, 1/3, and the fight had to take place in England.
There was talk of a Ottka fight in Germany back when Ottka had only one belt because his stable mate had the other, but Cal hurt his hand for a long, long, long time.
All you have to do is hit the guy once more than you get hit. so a once punch round has happened with ottka...I'm sure.

p.Townend

01-18-2009, 05:37 PM

The Reid fight he probably did lose.But Rob as with most of his loses in his prime has himself to blame.Sven Ottke should be rememberd as a good fighter and he will no doubt argue that people ducked him,they did not.He would have in my opinion lost to Joe in one hell of a teidious points bore.As for Starie,i dont think i will ever forgive him(or Calzaghe)for the fight at the men on the Tyson v Francis card.