contradicting info on fast/slow twitch fibres

[cockneyhardman]

i have read from god knows how many different sources that 1:fast fibres are involved in all quick movements
2: also contrary info that they are only recruited in movements against high resistances
3: also that in quick unloaded or very light loaded movements - only slow twitch fibres are used
does anyone have any good reputable info or links to clarify these contradictions?
if i was to go by 2 and 3 that would surely mean high resistance training of the arms and shoulders would be utterly useless in terms of punching mechanics and arm speed, and only the legs would benefit because of the bodyweight it has to support and move, and as for the torso - fuck knows

[Koa]

Nah. Fast twitch fibres are not endurance muscles. You see huge bodybuilders, they are full of fast twitch fibres. But at the same time, that huge bodybuilder will be able to maintain the peak of his muscular ability for a very short and violent movements, and not for a long duration.

A boxer is going to want more slow twitch fibres. You have both, but you only recruit so many fast twitch fibres when you throw your fastest punch. In order to recruit the majority of your fast twitch fibres, and grow fast twitch fibres, you need heavy weight.

You don't need a shit load of fast twitch fibres to move your arm around in a punching motion, but you need a lot of slow twitch muscles to keep your body moving for 3-12 rounds.

[MrSmall]

You have to train the "wrong" or "right" way for a long time in order to make any real difference in muscle fibres dont concern yourself with that.

[ralphc]

A textbook on physiology might be a better source of info than a internet forum. In any case, Jack Dempsey didn't know the first thing about twitching muscle fibers, fast or slow. The question is, why do you need to know?

[cockneyhardman]

A textbook on physiology might be a better source of info than a internet forum. In any case, Jack Dempsey didn't know the first thing about twitching muscle fibers, fast or slow. The question is, why do you need to know?

i'm building up slightly to get to the top end of my weight class and need to know the most beneficial way to do so in terms of duration of sets
i've been doing 5 per set which is good for relative strength, because it involves high threshold units but apparently relative strength doesn't cross over to boxing which involves unloaded movements(apart from the gloves)
it may not be the most important thing to think about but every bit counts i think

[Jazzo]

A textbook on physiology might be a better source of info than a internet forum. In any case, Jack Dempsey didn't know the first thing about twitching muscle fibers, fast or slow. The question is, why do you need to know?

:lol:

You do this on purpose, don't you Bert? :yep

Jack didn't need the internet. Why do you?

[boxbible]

i have read from god knows how many different sources that 1:fast fibres are involved in all quick movements
2: also contrary info that they are only recruited in movements against high resistances
3: also that in quick unloaded or very light loaded movements - only slow twitch fibres are used
does anyone have any good reputable info or links to clarify these contradictions?
if i was to go by 2 and 3 that would surely mean high resistance training of the arms and shoulders would be utterly useless in terms of punching mechanics and arm speed, and only the legs would benefit because of the bodyweight it has to support and move, and as for the torso - fuck knows
Fast twitch fibres are recruited by an athlete to perform explosive work like sprinting, throwing far, jumping high, punching hard, lifting heavy weights, etc... The drawback is that the muscles run out of energy (glycogen) real fast.

Slow twitch fibres are recruited by athletes who need to jog for long distances, play a game for over 20 minutes straight, need to do repeated explosive work for long periods of time, and punch for any length of time...

So, soccer players, basketball players, tour de france cyclists, and boxers would do well to rely on both.

And your analysis of upper and lower body is quite insightful, but you still need slow twitch for the legs so they can work hard repeatedly for many rounds, and fast twitch for upper body so you can "lock" your punches solidly upon contact to transfer the maximum amount of power to the opponent's chin.

What you really need to do is develop an aerobic base first since this takes the longest to peak... 12-16 weeks. A few weeks in, you can start doing anaerobic endurance like sprints and high rep (15-25) weight training. A few weeks of that will get you ready for strength training (4-6 reps), after which you can add in power training (jumps, olympic lifts, surgical tubing resistance)... and if you know what you're doing, the last 2-3 weeks you can peak with some plyometrics.

There are several ways to cycle this kind of workload and a visit to the bookstore should be a good invesment of time.

A real good book is Strength Training ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[boxbible]

...i've been doing 5 per set which is good for relative strength, because it involves high threshold units but apparently relative strength doesn't cross over to boxing which involves unloaded movements(apart from the gloves)
You want to program your training cycle so that you start with "general" excercises at the beginning, and end up with "sport specific" excercises towards the peak.

For instance, you'd start with basic squats and towards the end, you'd be doing squats in a boxing stance.

Medicine ball drills would first consist of a basic move like two handed catch and throws, and gradually move to punching motion throws.

[cockneyhardman]

Fast twitch fibres are recruited by an athlete to perform explosive work like sprinting, throwing far, jumping high, punching hard, lifting heavy weights, etc... The drawback is that the muscles run out of energy (glycogen) real fast.

Slow twitch fibres are recruited by athletes who need to jog for long distances, play a game for over 20 minutes straight, need to do repeated explosive work for long periods of time, and punch for any length of time...

So, soccer players, basketball players, tour de france cyclists, and boxers would do well to rely on both.

And your analysis of upper and lower body is quite insightful, but you still need slow twitch for the legs so they can work hard repeatedly for many rounds, and fast twitch for upper body so you can "lock" your punches solidly upon contact to transfer the maximum amount of power to the opponent's chin.

What you really need to do is develop an aerobic base first since this takes the longest to peak... 12-16 weeks. A few weeks in, you can start doing anaerobic endurance like sprints and high rep (15-25) weight training. A few weeks of that will get you ready for strength training (4-6 reps), after which you can add in power training (jumps, olympic lifts, surgical tubing resistance)... and if you know what you're doing, the last 2-3 weeks you can peak with some plyometrics.

There are several ways to cycle this kind of workload and a visit to the bookstore should be a good invesment of time.

A real good book is Strength Training ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

i've never found anything useful in bookstores, they just seem too limited
a really good forum though is by prof verkhoshansky, the russian guy who trained the soviet athletes
one of the best minds in conditioning and you can ask him questions but at the moment he is writing a book and is not available at the moment

[Ingar]

It's not like your body switches from slow and fast interchangeably as you go, you are always using every type in every situation, but the difference is the rate in which the different types are utilized.

In a muscle contraction, your slow twitch (Type I) fibres are the first to contract. Since they are the most enduring fibres, they are the ones responsible for out most basic functions, like the isometric contraction making us able to stand up without buckling, walking etc.
Since they have the ability to endure more than anything else, the power output is really low and so is the speed of the contraction.

As you start to go from being sedentary to walking to jogging to running faster you're utilizing more and more of what is called your Type IIA-fibres (intermediate, slow/fast twitch hybrid).
These fibres have the ability to "do it all." They are enduring (up to a certain point) and have the ability to contract faster and harder than your purely slow-twitch fibres, but not quite as much as your Type IIX fibres, which is your fast-twitch fibres.
These are the ones responsible for most of your sub-maximal efforts, i.e. when you're moving around to set up positions for a punch, recovering from throwing a combination etc.

Your Type IIX are the ones that are "turned on last" and is therefore the ones that contracts faster and more forcefully. Whenever you throw a punch, unless your are tapping him lovingly on the forehead like a little bitch, you are utilizing your fast twitch fibres to do so.
The fast twitch fibres are the total opposite of the slow ones like you've probably already imagined. They have very little endurance-capabilities, and with use demand not oxygen, but puruvate acid which is a process that creates lactic acid buildup and the feeling of freezing up the more you use them. (The Type IIA fibres do so too, but to a lesser extent since it's more of a hybrid)

Boxing is all about Intermediate and Fast twitch fibres. It's nearly all anaerobic, because when you are not throwing a punch you are recovering from just throwing one and moving fairly fast and violently to avoid punches.
To be able to recover more quickly so that you are in a position to throw more hard punches you need to be able to have highly conditioned Type IIA and IIX-fibres, there's no use doing long jogs to condition your slow-twitch Type I-fibres because they're not gonna be helping you anyways.
It's not like when you're punching you are using fast-twitch fibres for your upper body and slow-twitch for your lower body, punching is a total body action more demanding of creating power from the ground (with your legs) than it is anything else.


Therefore it would be a waste of time for you to spend lots of time "building an aerobic base" because once you start moving and doing your work all that goes out the window, since they don't help you recover the muscle fibres responsible for doing what you need to do to produce in the ring. That which is to punch hard and move fast.
Focus on anaerobic endurance, speed and strength (absolute, explosive and starting-strength) all year around, not just in phases. What you do is shift focus the closer you get to your "season" or main event. Go from a focus (i.e. to spend more time, not all your time on it) on anaerobic endurance and absolute strength to explosiveness and then speed and starting-strength.
This works better than the linear periodization type mentioned here earlier.

Somebody here mentioned you should read up on Prof. Verkoshansky. I second that recommendation, he's written lots about conjugated periodization, which is more of the type of periodization I mentioned.
Instead of having phases of different types of training throughout the year, you are training all your needed qualities with slightly shifting your focus according to your weaknesses instead.

[MagnificentMatt]

Who cares..just train.

You dont need to know shit except for good diet and how to train for boxing.

Good diet imo is almost common sense.

[ralphc]

It's not like your body switches from slow and fast interchangeably as you go, you are always using every type in every situation, but the difference is the rate in which the different types are utilized.

In a muscle contraction, your slow twitch (Type I) fibres are the first to contract. Since they are the most enduring fibres, they are the ones responsible for out most basic functions, like the isometric contraction making us able to stand up without buckling, walking etc.
Since they have the ability to endure more than anything else, the power output is really low and so is the speed of the contraction.

As you start to go from being sedentary to walking to jogging to running faster you're utilizing more and more of what is called your Type IIA-fibres (intermediate, slow/fast twitch hybrid).
These fibres have the ability to "do it all." They are enduring (up to a certain point) and have the ability to contract faster and harder than your purely slow-twitch fibres, but not quite as much as your Type IIX fibres, which is your fast-twitch fibres.
These are the ones responsible for most of your sub-maximal efforts, i.e. when you're moving around to set up positions for a punch, recovering from throwing a combination etc.

Your Type IIX are the ones that are "turned on last" and is therefore the ones that contracts faster and more forcefully. Whenever you throw a punch, unless your are tapping him lovingly on the forehead like a little bitch, you are utilizing your fast twitch fibres to do so.
The fast twitch fibres are the total opposite of the slow ones like you've probably already imagined. They have very little endurance-capabilities, and with use demand not oxygen, but puruvate acid which is a process that creates lactic acid buildup and the feeling of freezing up the more you use them. (The Type IIA fibres do so too, but to a lesser extent since it's more of a hybrid)

Boxing is all about Intermediate and Fast twitch fibres. It's nearly all anaerobic, because when you are not throwing a punch you are recovering from just throwing one and moving fairly fast and violently to avoid punches.
To be able to recover more quickly so that you are in a position to throw more hard punches you need to be able to have highly conditioned Type IIA and IIX-fibres, there's no use doing long jogs to condition your slow-twitch Type I-fibres because they're not gonna be helping you anyways.
It's not like when you're punching you are using fast-twitch fibres for your upper body and slow-twitch for your lower body, punching is a total body action more demanding of creating power from the ground (with your legs) than it is anything else.


Therefore it would be a waste of time for you to spend lots of time "building an aerobic base" because once you start moving and doing your work all that goes out the window, since they don't help you recover the muscle fibres responsible for doing what you need to do to produce in the ring. That which is to punch hard and move fast.
Focus on anaerobic endurance, speed and strength (absolute, explosive and starting-strength) all year around, not just in phases. What you do is shift focus the closer you get to your "season" or main event. Go from a focus (i.e. to spend more time, not all your time on it) on anaerobic endurance and absolute strength to explosiveness and then speed and starting-strength.
This works better than the linear periodization type mentioned here earlier.

Somebody here mentioned you should read up on Prof. Verkoshansky. I second that recommendation, he's written lots about conjugated periodization, which is more of the type of periodization I mentioned.
Instead of having phases of different types of training throughout the year, you are training all your needed qualities with slightly shifting your focus according to your weaknesses instead.



All these technicalities are great and wonderful, but as yet you still haven't convinced me there is anything better than old fashioned boxing training for boxers. Considering that 99% of boxers don't have access to coaching that has this level of sophistication, why do we need to talk about it?

[cockneyhardman]

All these technicalities are great and wonderful, but as yet you still haven't convinced me there is anything better than old fashioned boxing training for boxers. Considering that 99% of boxers don't have access to coaching that has this level of sophistication, why do we need to talk about it?

it's not better it's just an addition

[Ingar]

All these technicalities are great and wonderful, but as yet you still haven't convinced me there is anything better than old fashioned boxing training for boxers.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Considering that 99% of boxers don't have access to coaching that has this level of sophistication, why do we need to talk about it?Every athlete has responsibility for his own performance and his own training regime. It has to start somewhere, it might as well start right here.
I'm telling you how the body works and what it needs, you'll only find out by doing research and applying it.
You won't become a better athlete by settling for something, you won't gain an advantage over your opposition by sitting down and talking about what already works well enough.
I didn't learn all this from a coach, I've learned from doing my own research and applying it, and my coaches over the years have been a tool in accomplishing that along with books and personal research.
Never accept anything as absolute, not even the stuff I'm saying about how Fibre types are set up, because I might be wrong. And I know I'll find out if I am, because I'll always be searching for that edge, expanding my knowledge and skills.

While you can sit there and rot away in mediocrity talking about what is already "good enough."

[ShadowWorks]

All these technicalities are great and wonderful, but as yet you still haven't convinced me there is anything better than old fashioned boxing training for boxers. Considering that 99% of boxers don't have access to coaching that has this level of sophistication, why do we need to talk about it?


You would do better if you understood what he wrote, just because you don't understand something does not mean it not correct, Elite performance needs a deep understanding of the body.

[Larson]

:lol: beastin *****z n shit

[ralphc]

You would do better if you understood what he wrote, just because you don't understand something does not mean it not correct, Elite performance needs a deep understanding of the body.



Do you expect me to believe that a carping teenager who has accomplished nothing is an expert on high-tech training? There is a plethora of self appointed experts who have any number of quack theories which they justify with a lot of techno-babble. Apparently Oscar De La Hoya was dumb enough to hire one to get his weight down. We all saw the consequences.

[Ingar]

Do you expect me to believe that a carping teenager who has accomplished nothing is an expert on high-tech training? There is a plethora of self appointed experts who have any number of quack theories which they justify with a lot of techno-babble. Apparently Oscar De La Hoya was dumb enough to hire one to get his weight down. We all saw the consequences.

I just told you about techno-babble fitness "experts" in the other thread, my work is always result-oriented and based on research by athletes and coaches with great accomplishments.
Why do you state something about my accomplishments when you know nothing about them?
I can be short, I'm the country's top Running Back after only playing football for two years, I've scored 5 touchdowns in a single game, I play for the national team (got drafted after only playing the game for 4 months), Silver Medal in the European Championships. I run the 60 metres in 6.7 seconds (national top level), I am a regional champion in Olympic Weightlifting.
Do you want me to go on?

Like I said, I do my research and I apply it. I try to help people out here offering help on subjects I've read and worked alot with.

If you don't want to apply it, fine. I don't care. You always come with stuck-in-the-past comments without anything to back it up by todays standards, and it is annoying considering that I spend time writing something to help somebody out.

[scurlaruntings]

All these technicalities are great and wonderful, but as yet you still haven't convinced me there is anything better than old fashioned boxing training for boxers. Considering that 99% of boxers don't have access to coaching that has this level of sophistication, why do we need to talk about it?The bottom line is work out regimes are subjective. If you dont like modern methods and prefer to stick with methods that are for a FACT antiquated thats entirely your perogative. As long as your dedicated to your trade your always bound to get the results you put in.

[El Puma]

I just told you about techno-babble fitness "experts" in the other thread, my work is always result-oriented and based on research by athletes and coaches with great accomplishments.
Why do you state something about my accomplishments when you know nothing about them?
I can be short, I'm the country's top Running Back after only playing football for two years, I've scored 5 touchdowns in a single game, I play for the national team (got drafted after only playing the game for 4 months), Silver Medal in the European Championships. I run the 60 metres in 6.7 seconds (national top level), I am a regional champion in Olympic Weightlifting.
Do you want me to go on?

Like I said, I do my research and I apply it. I try to help people out here offering help on subjects I've read and worked alot with.

If you don't want to apply it, fine. I don't care. You always come with stuck-in-the-past comments without anything to back it up by todays standards, and it is annoying considering that I spend time writing something to help somebody out.:happy:happy:happy:thumbsup

[RDJ]

methods that are for a FACT antiquated

Every boxer still uses those methods. Some have additional methods, but I've never seen a boxer that completely abandoned them.

Ps. Calzaghe is a horrible example, he has zero power. It is said that he doesn't do much bag work either, horrible example either way.

[scurlaruntings]

I dont blame him. I mean realistically how much value is there in bag work? Other than working on your physical conditioning its fairly useless spending hours on it. Pad work is superior in my opinion as is the double end bag. But at the end of the day its entirely subjective.

[RDJ]

I dont blame him. I mean realistically how much value is there in bag work?

It's sports specific resistance training. Of course it all depends how you use it, but that goes for every tool. Calzaghe would probably throws taps at it anyway.

Other than working on your physical conditioning its fairly useless spending hours on it. Pad work is superior in my opinion as is the double end bag.

They serve a different purpose IMO but there is some overlap.

But at the end of the day its entirely subjective.

True indeed.

[ralphc]

Every boxer still uses those methods. Some have additional methods, but I've never seen a boxer that completely abandoned them.

Ps. Calzaghe is a horrible example, he has zero power. It is said that he doesn't do much bag work either, horrible example either way.


Zero power? Why don't you ask Kessler whom Calzaghe doubled over with a body shot. Oh wait, Kessler is just a bum! How do we know he is a bum? Because he was beaten by a man who has antiquated training methods. :lol:

[RDJ]

Zero power? Why don't you ask Kessler whom Calzaghe doubled over with a body shot. Oh wait, Kessler is just a bum! How do we know he is a bum? Because he was beaten by a man who has antiquated training methods. :lol:

Calzaghe is known as a petty patter. He rained hundreds of slaps on Lacy for 12 rounds and still could not get him out of there. And for the record I wasn't the one who said anything about antiquated methods, au contraire in fact.

[ralphc]

I just told you about techno-babble fitness "experts" in the other thread, my work is always result-oriented and based on research by athletes and coaches with great accomplishments.
Why do you state something about my accomplishments when you know nothing about them?
I can be short, I'm the country's top Running Back after only playing football for two years, I've scored 5 touchdowns in a single game, I play for the national team (got drafted after only playing the game for 4 months), Silver Medal in the European Championships. I run the 60 metres in 6.7 seconds (national top level), I am a regional champion in Olympic Weightlifting.
Do you want me to go on?

Like I said, I do my research and I apply it. I try to help people out here offering help on subjects I've read and worked alot with.

If you don't want to apply it, fine. I don't care. You always come with stuck-in-the-past comments without anything to back it up by todays standards, and it is annoying considering that I spend time writing something to help somebody out.



Then maybe you should be giving advice to people on a football website. Nobody is paying attention on this website, that is nobody who actually does any boxing. If the top boxers who have lots of money can't or won't upgrade to your version training, how can you expect anybody else to do it? Do you ever watch HBO? Many of these young boxers actually have to dehydrate to the tune of 10% or more of their body weight. When I was young boxers weren't doing stupid things like that. But back in those days pumping iron wasn't on the program.

[boxbible]

If two identical twins fought each other, and they trained and ate equally, but one also did resistance training to increase endurance, strength and power, guess who would win?

:patsch

[RDJ]

What's the other guy doing when his brother is pumping iron?

[boxbible]

... Therefore it would be a waste of time for you to spend lots of time "building an aerobic base" because once you start moving and doing your work all that goes out the window, since they don't help you recover the muscle fibres responsible for doing what you need to do to produce in the ring.
If all muscle fibre types are being used but some predominate over others depending on type of event, and because a boxing match may last up to thirty-six minutes in length, isn't a sound aerobic base is kinda important?

I mean, in order to pump out repeated anaerobic work, a nice oxydative base would be of great help, wouldn't it? Otherwise, the creatin-glycogen-lactic acid cycle would soon collapse from the overload of a long fight...

[boxbible]

What's the other guy doing when his brother is pumping iron?
Nothing extra...

[RDJ]

Nothing extra...

:huh

So will he be undertraining or will his brother be overtraining? Why would he do nothing. It's quite obvious weight training is better than doing nothing.

[SweetScience]

How do you enhance your fast twitch fibres?

[MrSmall]

You just train explosively.

Most efficient way? Heavy weights at maximum speed.

RDJ is my hero. I am secretly in love with him.

[RDJ]

RDJ is my hero. I am secretly in love with him.

:-(

[SweetScience]

You just train explosively.

Most efficient way? Heavy weights at maximum speed.

RDJ is my hero. I am secretly in love with him.

Thanks.

[cockneyhardman]

Thanks.

also you should combine this with light resistance with maximal speed
such as bagwork with heavier gloves
underwater punching(you can add wrist weights too for extra resistance)
torso twist on a cable machine
weighted jumpsquats with dumbells or weighted vest
one legged jump squats

with the last 3 i listed, you should relax between each rep and take long breaks between sets (you must be fresh for each rep)
with the one leg jump squats do fewer reps but more sets(so each rep is maximum power)
these trains speed more than strength, while the heavy training trains strength more
and you must focus on accelerating to maximal velocity at the very beginning of the movement, not at the end of the movement
it is this focus and effort that creates lightening speed
also when doing any kind of punching, i always do a few easy rounds first just focusing on technique, speed and power but not a high workrate because the fatigue you get otherwise interfers with them, then AFTERWARDS i do the hard fitness work

[Ingar]

If all muscle fibre types are being used but some predominate over others depending on type of event, and because a boxing match may last up to thirty-six minutes in length, isn't a sound aerobic base is kinda important?

I mean, in order to pump out repeated anaerobic work, a nice oxydative base would be of great help, wouldn't it? Otherwise, the creatin-glycogen-lactic acid cycle would soon collapse from the overload of a long fight...

That's right, aerobic training becomes more of an issue the more rounds you go, but not as much as one might think.
It should never be the main concern of an amateur fighter to build an aerobic base before doing anything else though, the main focus should always be on what is the greatest energy demands of your sport.
It's more about recovering from short, anaerobic bursts than it is performing slower, steady movements over a prolonged period of time even if you are doing 12 rounds. It's not aerobic in the sense of needing to do traditional aerobic training.

Nothing helps you cope with and eliminate lactic acid as much as anaerobic training, and every recuparative measures your body takes in eliminating oxidative debt is best improved with anaerobic training itself.
But that isn't to say that aerobic training won't help, but it shouldn't be the main staple of your training program during any phase unless you are a distance/marathon runner or the like.
The word "specificity" comes to mind, hehe. :)

[RDJ]

When you're under pressure in the ring you have little time to breath, especially if your opponent works the body. I can run 6 miles and do intervals in the end, no problem oxygen enough. But when an experienced guy beats the air out of my body and has me cornered, I'm gasping for breath at the end of the round. If there was no opponent boxing would be mostly anaerobic. In the ring I wouldn't count on it. Your aerobic system needs to be as efficient as possible, a little bit of air may be all you get.

[MagnificentMatt]

I would think most people consider normal skill work/boxing anaerobic for the most part even.. Bag work, mitts, rope sprints etc.. Even when Im not doing a punch-out I still try and punch very often, pretty much jabbing in between practicing combinations.

(The way I work the bag depends on where the bag is ex., if it comes to my right, ill throw a one two, than step and bring the three in when it swings left, southpaw)

[Ingar]

When you're under pressure in the ring you have little time to breath, especially if your opponent works the body. I can run 6 miles and do intervals in the end, no problem oxygen enough. But when an experienced guy beats the air out of my body and has me cornered, I'm gasping for breath at the end of the round. If there was no opponent boxing would be mostly anaerobic. In the ring I wouldn't count on it. Your aerobic system needs to be as efficient as possible, a little bit of air may be all you get.

Aerobic means work done with oxygen available for cell metabolism, anaerobic is work done without oxygen available.
So what you're saying further shows that when an opponent is put into the picture, more shortness of breath is produced, which makes the work more anaerobic, not aerobic. Then it becomes not so important for your aerobic system to be as efficient as possible as much as it is important for your anaerobic system to be as efficient as possible.

[cockneyhardman]

Aerobic means work done with oxygen available for cell metabolism, anaerobic is work done without oxygen available.
So what you're saying further shows that when an opponent is put into the picture, more shortness of breath is produced, which makes the work more anaerobic, not aerobic. Then it becomes not so important for your aerobic system to be as efficient as possible as much as it is important for your anaerobic system to be as efficient as possible.

i agree with most of what you say except the aerobic part
muscular endurance i believe is only needed in the deltoids, legs, and muscles of the top part of the back
this is achieved through bagwork(sometimes with resistance), punching with dumbells, and running/jumping
i can't see any time for it(endurance training) in the weight room
also when doing interval running, or intense bagwork, i am out of breath long before my lactic acid kicks in

[MrSmall]

Aerobic means work done with oxygen available for cell metabolism, anaerobic is work done without oxygen available.
So what you're saying further shows that when an opponent is put into the picture, more shortness of breath is produced, which makes the work more anaerobic, not aerobic. Then it becomes not so important for your aerobic system to be as efficient as possible as much as it is important for your anaerobic system to be as efficient as possible.

I'm with you here it's a lot more working when you're short of breath rather than breathing in properly.

[RDJ]

Aerobic means work done with oxygen available for cell metabolism, anaerobic is work done without oxygen available.

I know that Ingar.

So what you're saying further shows that when an opponent is put into the picture, more shortness of breath is produced, which makes the work more anaerobic, not aerobic. Then it becomes not so important for your aerobic system to be as efficient as possible as much as it is important for your anaerobic system to be as efficient as possible.

I think that means both are important. Since you can't get a lot of air, the air you do get needs to be used as efficient as possible.

[BlackWater]

I think that means both are important. Since you can't get a lot of air, the air you do get needs to be used as efficient as possible.

Except anaerobic is more important.


:smoke

[boxbible]

:huh

So will he be undertraining or will his brother be overtraining? Why would he do nothing. It's quite obvious weight training is better than doing nothing.
Both are doing standard boxing training and one is also doing resistance training...

There are those who think that the twin brother who does the additional resistance on top of regular boxing workouts would fair no better than his brother who does only regular boxing workouts....

[boxbible]

Aerobic means work done with oxygen available for cell metabolism, anaerobic is work done without oxygen available.
So what you're saying further shows that when an opponent is put into the picture, more shortness of breath is produced, which makes the work more anaerobic, not aerobic. Then it becomes not so important for your aerobic system to be as efficient as possible as much as it is important for your anaerobic system to be as efficient as possible.
For your body to do repeated anaerobic work, you need a decent aerobic base.

And besides, how long is a training session? One to two hours? You need a decent aerobic base just to get a good workout in.

If you just do a whole lot of anaerobic work, sure, you're anaerobic output will increase, but the volume and number of repeated anaerobic bursts will increase only very slowly.

With an aerobic base in place, it is much easier to increase the volume of anaerobic work you can do.

[RDJ]

Both are doing standard boxing training and one is also doing resistance training...

In that case one of them is either undertraining or overtraining.

[cockneyhardman]

In that case one of them is either undertraining or overtraining.

well once per week of weight training(as in strength and possible hypertrophy) is enough to maintain gains(after making the gains)
so i would say one is undertraining

[boxbible]

In that case one of them is either undertraining or overtraining.
If a boxer did a standard boxing workout including jogging and sprints, bag work, pad work, floor excercises, and bodyweight excercises... that would be considered a full traditional boxing workout.

If you added another 45 minutes of full body resistance training 3 times a week, you would hardly be overtraining.

But, would that mean the traditional boxing workout is under-training?

Probably is...

[RDJ]

If a boxer did a standard boxing workout including jogging and sprints, bag work, pad work, floor excercises, and bodyweight excercises... that would be considered a full traditional boxing workout.

If you added another 45 minutes of full body resistance training 3 times a week, you would hardly be overtraining.

Yes you would, unless the other person is not training as much as he can, it's basic logic really. The workout itself, the recovery time needed, it cannot be simply added unless the person is undertraining. If you can add 3 weight training sessions without giving up existing workouts, he would have been severely undertraining.

You forgot sparring in your full traditional boxing workout btw ;)

[MagnificentMatt]

Yes you would, unless the other person is not training as much as he can, it's basic logic really. The workout itself, the recovery time needed, it cannot be simply added unless the person is undertraining. If you can add 3 weight training sessions without giving up existing workouts, he would have been severely undertraining.

You forgot sparring in your full traditional boxing workout btw ;)


Also, you could be busting your ass in that traditional boxing workout and not need to do resistance, or have the energy to.

[RDJ]

Also, you could be busting your ass in that traditional boxing workout and not need to do resistance, or have the energy to.

Indeed. Besides the fact that bag work is actually resistance training :D

[MagnificentMatt]

Indeed. Besides the fact that bag work is actually resistance training :D

I was going to go there...Especially if you do some power boxing and punchouts to finish it off.

As a side note, I throw a shit load of punches during skill work as well, many other do too Im sure..

[RDJ]

Excellent points.

[cockneyhardman]

Also, you could be busting your ass in that traditional boxing workout and not need to do resistance, or have the energy to.

before the boxing season(2 months before) i weight train 2/3 times per week
then;

mon to fri - boxing and fitness training (no. of days vary depending how close to a fight)
saturday - weight training
sunday - rest which allows 2 days for recovery before commencing monday again

[China_hand_Joe]

Intermediate fibres are there too.