ARMSTRONG vs THESE GUYS.......

[Bill Butcher]

As Ive said, Ive been on a crash course of Henry Armstrong footage & I am suprisingly impressed with the man, I already knew his story, his record & all his boxing achievements but never found time to view the footage, Im glad I have, how do you think he would do vs these guys ?..........

(All primes at the particular weight of course)

Willie Pep at FWT
Salvador Sanchez at FWT
Sandy Saddler at SFWT
Roberto Duran at LWT
Roberto Duran at WWT
Aaron Pryor at LWWT
Floyd Mayweather at SFWT

(All fights 15 rds except Mayweather as we havent seen him do 15, his will be 12 rds)

My predictions -
Pep wins a razor thin decision that could go the other way.
Armstrong beats Sanchez on points close but clear.
Armstrong beats Saddler on points close but clear.
Duran beats Armstrong on points iat 135 in a close one.
Armstrong beats Duran on points at 147 close but clear.
Armstrong beats Pryor on points.
Armstrong beats Mayweather on points.



Botswana :good

[GPater11093]

Pep wins a UD by not letting armstrong near him and constantly moving
Armstrong beats Salvador by a UD
Cant seperate saddler and hank as saddler would have the power to keep him off i say a draw
Duran wins a close UD at any weight
Armstrong TKOs Pryor in a war late on
Armstrong outworks mayweather earning a UD

[Bummy Davis]

Pep beats him in a close one but Armstrong beats the rest

[robert ungurean]

Pep wins a UD
Armstrong UD over Sanchez & Saddler
Duran over Armstrong at either weight.
Armstrong & Pryor is a toss up for me.
Armstrong decision over Mayweather.

[Sweet Pea]

Armstrong would win a decision or possibly stop Pep late, but would get decision'd or possibly stopped late by Saddler.

Don't you just love how everyone follows the trends on here?

[robert ungurean]

Armstrong would win a decision or possibly stop Pep late, but would get decision'd or possibly stopped late by Saddler.

Don't you just love how everyone follows the trends on here?
Your right about the Saddler outcome.
I tend to forget what a killer Sandy was alot like Ike Williams.

[GPater11093]

yeh pea i couldnt decide an armstrong saddler fight i think your about right

i think pep would beat him much like you say whittaker would beat him

[Sweet Pea]

yeh pea i couldnt decide an armstrong saddler fight i think your about right

i think pep would beat him much like you say whittaker would beat him

The difference is, weight considerations aside, Pep and Whitaker fought differently against pressure fighters. Pep boxed very well off the backfoot, but was generally more the type to use upper-body movement, lateral movement, and angles to befuddle his attackers. That's one reason I see Whitaker faring better against a Saddler type. Whitaker was better at fighting strictly off the backfoot than Pep, and had a better jab as well. A guy like Saddler was able to use his reach to enclose Pep within his grasps a lot of the time Pep would attempt to use angles and lateral movement to stay out of harm's way. Pep, despite his elusiveness, was within range of Saddler a lot more often than a guy like Whitaker would be, as he would be fighting on the move, off the backfoot, behind the jab, making himself more difficult to catch.

Same applies with Armstrong, only Armstrong lacks the reach that Saddler had.

[GPater11093]

i see where your coming from but i think pep is abit more rounded than whittaker and has equal movement and a slightly better defence and would be able to outbox armstrong like you think pea could

[Bill Butcher]

Pep was the best boxer of all time (best fighter goes to Robinson just before I get bombarded with are you crazy type comments) aswell as the best defensive fighter in boxing + FWT was Pep`s weight, he was best there, Armstrong was probably the best swarmer ever but it seemed to me he was more comfortable as a welter. Slight advantage to Pep.

Saddler aint stopping Armstrong, he might make him respect his power but I see Armstrong wearing him out in a war, maybe not wear him out for a KO/TKO but certainly enough for a good points win.

[Sweet Pea]

Pep was the best boxer of all time (best fighter goes to Robinson just before I get bombarded with are you crazy type comments) aswell as the best defensive fighter in boxing + FWT was Pep`s weight, he was best there, Armstrong was probably the best swarmer ever but it seemed to me he was more comfortable as a welter. Slight advantage to Pep.

Saddler aint stopping Armstrong, he might make him respect his power but I see Armstrong wearing him out in a war, maybe not wear him out for a KO/TKO but certainly enough for a good points win.

You're basing your comments about Pep on hearsay more than anything, unless you're seriously going to tell me the past prime footage of Pep available is more impressive than anything you've seen in boxing.

Armstrong was much more of a natural Featherweight/Lightweight than Welterweight, where he was extremely small and rarely even weighed in at the limit. The fact that he fought there so often was more a testament to Armstrong as a real fighter than anything. He certainly wasn't better suited to the weight.

Armstrong's style, on the other hand, is tailor-made for Saddler. Saddler would stalk in much the same way Armstrong would, but he'd need to get ahold of you to do effective work. Once in his grasp (which Armstrong would be all night long), he'd use his monstrous reach and armspan to tie you up and go to work on your head and body. He was one of the craftiest, dirtiest in-fighters of all time as well, often rabbit punching, hitting low, lacing, thumbing, etc. The fact that he was one of the most powerful punchers and finishers of all time is just an added bonus. I just can't see any pressure fighter beating Saddler at that game, it's like walking into a fire.

[Bill Butcher]

The footage of Pep coupled with what Ive read about him doesnt contradict IMO, Ive never seen a smoother operator when in full flow, there is good footage of Pep as you know.

The same goes for Robinson being the best ever WWT with 0 footage... why ?
Because we`ve seen plenty of him at MWT, its the same guy with a similar style & he must have been better at the lower weight... same as Willie Pep must have been better before the near fatal plane crash, its basic logic.

If there is decent footage of part of an ATGs career, he must be given the benefit of the doubt when younger & fresher with no footage, especially when not 1 eye witness disagrees that Pep was better before the crash.

[Sweet Pea]

The footage of Pep coupled with what Ive read about him doesnt contradict IMO, Ive never seen a smoother operator when in full flow, there is good footage of Pep as you know.

The same goes for Robinson being the best ever WWT with 0 footage... why ?
Because we`ve seen plenty of him at MWT, its the same guy with a similar style & he must have been better at the lower weight... same as Willie Pep must have been better before the near fatal plane crash, its basic logic.

If there is decent footage of part of an ATGs career, he must be given the benefit of the doubt when younger & fresher with no footage, especially when not 1 eye witness disagrees that Pep was better before the crash.I agree to an extent. I think Pep looks very good in the footage of him we have, at his best he looks excellent, but I've seen better. Whether or not someone's seen better than Robinson is up to taste, or what they've seen. The best footage of him (limited though it may be) that I've seen of Robinson, including some WW footage that not everyone's seen, is about as impressive as any other for his style.

[Bill Butcher]

I agree to an extent. I think Pep looks very good in the footage of him we have, at his best he looks excellent, but I've seen better. Whether or not someone's seen better than Robinson is up to taste, or what they've seen. The best footage of him (limited though it may be) that I've seen of Robinson, including some WW footage that not everyone's seen, is about as impressive as any other for his style.

Agreed.

[PowerPuncher]

Willie Pep at FWT - Under the 126 limit Pep probably wins, Henry only fought at or below 126 13 times for a reason, Armstrong was much stronger though so may take it on strength/relentless pressure.

Salvador Sanchez at FWT - Sanchez far better technically, better skill, better at the weight, outpoints HA in tough but clear win

Sandy Saddler at SFWT - Armstrong close but clear 9-6 in a war of attrition

Roberto Duran at LWT - Duran late rounds KO

Roberto Duran at WWT - see above

Aaron Pryor at LWWT - Pryor UD

Floyd Mayweather at SFWT - Mayweather wide wide UD or late TKO

[Minotauro]

Floyd Mayweather at SFWT - Mayweather wide wide UD or late TKO

:lol:

[My2Sense]

As Ive said, Ive been on a crash course of Henry Armstrong footage & I am suprisingly impressed with the man, I already knew his story, his record & all his boxing achievements but never found time to view the footage, Im glad I have, how do you think he would do vs these guys ?..........

(All primes at the particular weight of course)

Willie Pep at FWT
Salvador Sanchez at FWT
Sandy Saddler at SFWT
Roberto Duran at LWT
Roberto Duran at WWT
Aaron Pryor at LWWT
Floyd Mayweather at SFWT

(All fights 15 rds except Mayweather as we havent seen him do 15, his will be 12 rds)


I wouldn't be surprised if Armstrong beats all of these guys. The one exception might be Duran at welterweight, as Duran would've had something of a size advantage there (Armstrong was never really more than a jr. welterweight). Armstrong was at his peak around super-feather, and anyone around there I would favor him to beat. He was just that damn good.

[My2Sense]

Your right about the Saddler outcome.
I tend to forget what a killer Sandy was alot like Ike Williams.

Saddler has shown trouble sometimes with fighters who got inside his long arms and gave it to him on the inside (see his fight with Charley Riley). And Armstrong certainly has a great chin - Ceferino Garcia couldn't back him off, and he was one of the hardest hitting welterweights-jr.midddleweights ever.

I would think Armstrong had what it took to keep on top of him and outhustle him to a decision.

[Bummy Davis]

The footage of Pep coupled with what Ive read about him doesnt contradict IMO, Ive never seen a smoother operator when in full flow, there is good footage of Pep as you know.

The same goes for Robinson being the best ever WWT with 0 footage... why ?
Because we`ve seen plenty of him at MWT, its the same guy with a similar style & he must have been better at the lower weight... same as Willie Pep must have been better before the near fatal plane crash, its basic logic.

If there is decent footage of part of an ATGs career, he must be given the benefit of the doubt when younger & fresher with no footage, especially when not 1 eye witness disagrees that Pep was better before the crash.

good explanation and good point

[My2Sense]

The footage of Pep coupled with what Ive read about him doesnt contradict IMO, Ive never seen a smoother operator when in full flow, there is good footage of Pep as you know.

The same goes for Robinson being the best ever WWT with 0 footage... why ?
Because we`ve seen plenty of him at MWT, its the same guy with a similar style & he must have been better at the lower weight... same as Willie Pep must have been better before the near fatal plane crash, its basic logic.

If there is decent footage of part of an ATGs career, he must be given the benefit of the doubt when younger & fresher with no footage, especially when not 1 eye witness disagrees that Pep was better before the crash.

There actually is footage of Pep and Robby at their peaks, albeit scant.

[Bill Butcher]

There actually is footage of Pep and Robby at their peaks, albeit scant.

I know, Ive seen really old stuff, grainy footage of both but undoubtedly the clearest stuff was when they were a bit (tho not miles) past their best.

I think Pep vs Armstrong would be the ultimate clash of styles, the boxer vs pressure fighter always brings out the best of both & these 2 sit at the very top of tier no1 when it comes to being the best at their own style.
Its possible Armstrong might be too big naturally for Pep but if he isnt then this is too hard to call with any real certainty.