73 Foreman vs 92 Bowe

[Xplosive]

Does Bowe have a chance?

[Muchmoore]

No.

Bowe gets over rated. Bowe was a PERFECT foil for Holyfield in that he was tall, had a good jab, good chin, toughness, and was able to get Holyfield to trade with him. Bowes defense was too poor for me to make him the favorite over any elite level puncher. Bowe was great when he was on the outside jabbing but he only did that in spots.

Foreman KO4 when Bowe decides to go toe to toe.

[mr. magoo]

Big George vs Big Daddy

My heart wants George Foreman, and he well may have taken this match, but I really do think That Bowe has an excellent chance here. For all his shortcummings, Riddick Bowe is one of the few fighters that I can think of who truly had a complete package. He was a decent boxer who could utilize the jab, put together combinations, and tie fighters up on the inside. He was fairly strong and could hit hard in both hands. It also helped that he was 6'5", and around 230-235 Lbs when at his best. My only criticism is that he had a weak defense, but he had a fairly solid chin to compensate for it, and it was mainly the strait jab that cought him and not the kind of looping shots that a 1973 Foreman would have been throwing.

Bowe could be hurt, but so could Foreman, and frankly I think Bowe would likely be the largest, strongest and one of the most all around athletic men that George ever fought. We should also consider that he was never stopped and truly lost only once to a man he beat twice. We could talk about the Golata affairs, but frankly I don't think Golata had much in common with a 1970's Foreman, and Bowe was declining when they fought anyway. Another point of interest is that Foreman had the tendency to tire late in a fight, wheras Riddick could still be competitive as shown in his grueling battles with Evander Holyfield. Foreman could not afford to get tagged repeatedly while walking in, like he did against Ron Lyle or show up in lack luster fashion, such as the case against jimmy Young. If Foreman is going to take this one, he needs to get Riddick out of there inside of 5 rounds, and truthfully, I'm quite skeptical as to weather there was ever a man who could do such a thing to Big Daddy.

[Bad_Intentions]

Hell no.

George TKO12.

[leverage]

The foreman of 73 had poor stamina, and he always looked to destroy his opponents early. When he failed to do this, He always grew more and more exhausted as the bout went on. Bowe matches up favourably with foreman physically and had formidable skills, even though he was lacking defensively.

Who won this fight would depend on how bowe fought. If he fought from long range, used his jab and resisted the temptation to slug, he could take the fight into the mid-rounds where foreman tank would start to empty. Then his chances of winning would be good.

However, if chose to brawl with foreman, the fight would end early. Bowe didn't have the punch to match foreman, and it was suicide to stand and trade with foreman.

[MRBILL]

Hmmmmmm..... Foreman really couldn't fight or box like a solid pro ought to in 1973. As were as Bowe was polished an in-shape with focus in 1992...... In '92, Bowe had better skills and was bigger than the '73 Foreman.... I'd guess that version of Bowe would beat Foreman.....

MR.BILL

[Bad_Intentions]

Hmmmmmm..... Foreman really couldn't fight or box like a solid pro ought to in 1973. As were as Bowe was polished an in-shape with focus in 1992...... In '92, Bowe had better skills and was bigger than the '73 Foreman.... I'd guess that version of Bowe would beat Foreman.....

MR.BILL
Is that you next to big george? :think

[AnthonyJ74]

The foreman of 73 had poor stamina, and he always looked to destroy his opponents early. When he failed to do this, He always grew more and more exhausted as the bout went on. Bowe matches up favourably with foreman physically and had formidable skills, even though he was lacking defensively.

Who won this fight would depend on how bowe fought. If he fought from long range, used his jab and resisted the temptation to slug, he could take the fight into the mid-rounds where foreman tank would start to empty. Then his chances of winning would be good.

However, if chose to brawl with foreman, the fight would end early. Bowe didn't have the punch to match foreman, and it was suicide to stand and trade with foreman.

I don't know if Foreman really had poor stamina or just poor pacing. A lot of fighters would have tired early if they fought at the pace of a younger Foreman.

[cuchulain]

In his heyday, George didn't need stamina.

Nor pacing.

Before the rumble, Foreman, inside 4.

[OBCboxer]

Foreman by KO for the reasons MuchMoore stated.

[MRBILL]

Is that you next to big george? :think


YEP.

MR.BILL:yikes

[MRBILL]

Well, George Foreman was NOT well coached / schooled by Dick and Sandy Sadler in the early 70s... All the Sadler's saw in George was a decent jab and wicked power and strength..... Skills were NOT taught to a young George Foreman.... G.F. didn't start using or applying some boxing skills and good technique until Gil Clancy came along in '75.... Foreman fired the Sadler's after his loss to Ali in '74..... And Foreman's skills and technique improved later in life with Charlie Shipes and Angelo Dundee..... Archie Moore was in and out of the Foreman camp throughout the years, but Moore was not always in a position to teach or coach; merely to advise..... Peace...

MR.BILL

[JohnThomas1]

Foreman KO4

[ChrisPontius]

Hell no.

George TKO12.

There's no way the '73 Foreman is still going to have any gas left to pull out a TKO victory in the 12th round against an opponent who won't stay away from him.


Big George vs Big Daddy

My heart wants George Foreman, and he well may have taken this match, but I really do think That Bowe has an excellent chance here. For all his shortcummings, Riddick Bowe is one of the few fighters that I can think of who truly had a complete package. He was a decent boxer who could utilize the jab, put together combinations, and tie fighters up on the inside. He was fairly strong and could hit hard in both hands. It also helped that he was 6'5", and around 230-235 Lbs when at his best. My only criticism is that he had a weak defense, but he had a fairly solid chin to compensate for it, and it was mainly the strait jab that cought him and not the kind of looping shots that a 1973 Foreman would have been throwing.

Bowe could be hurt, but so could Foreman, and frankly I think Bowe would likely be the largest, strongest and one of the most all around athletic men that George ever fought. We should also consider that he was never stopped and truly lost only once to a man he beat twice. We could talk about the Golata affairs, but frankly I don't think Golata had much in common with a 1970's Foreman, and Bowe was declining when they fought anyway. Another point of interest is that Foreman had the tendency to tire late in a fight, wheras Riddick could still be competitive as shown in his grueling battles with Evander Holyfield. Foreman could not afford to get tagged repeatedly while walking in, like he did against Ron Lyle or show up in lack luster fashion, such as the case against jimmy Young. If Foreman is going to take this one, he needs to get Riddick out of there inside of 5 rounds, and truthfully, I'm quite skeptical as to weather there was ever a man who could do such a thing to Big Daddy.

I agree with most of this.


How well can Bowe take a shot? We've never really seen him against a big puncher; Hide, probably the best puncher he faced, had him out on his feet but was a cruiserweight and outsized as well as outclassed. Then again, he did have a shitty defence and shipped a lot of shots from genuine big men.. more so than Foreman. Incidentally, Foreman himself (the 70's version) is not that proven either. The only good puncher that landed on him was Lyle, and he nearly knocked him out.

Both of these come forward and look to trade hard punches. I'd say Foreman is the heavier handed of the two, but might also be less durable. Bowe has a big edge in stamina. Neither play much defence. If it comes an in-fight, the Brooklyn fighter has the edge; Foreman seemed to be most effective at medium range, while Bowe can fight at medium and short range.

Some will say that he was good from a distance as well, due to his size, but i disagree; the smaller Holyfield consistently outjabbed him and made him miss his overhand rights when he was dedicated to the jab.. also have a look on how Tubbs neutralised him by often staying at long range.



Going back to Bowe's durability.... he always took a lot of punches, even in his easy victories, most of his mediocre opponents still had 50+% connect rates... these were all 220lbs, big men. Something is gotta go, and that combined with his food addiction lead to a quick deterioration of his body. It is possible that his punch resistance also suffered a bit in that aspect. He had no trouble taking Holyfield's best shot over and over and over in '92 and 94, but late '95 he was nearly knocked out by the left hook he'd taken so well in the past.... and then Golota knocks him down twice and stuns him another 5 times or so. Golota is a good hitter, but not a devastating puncher.




So all together, i'm going with Bowe by 7th round TKO when Foreman is exhausted and not able to defend himself anymore.

[Bokaj]

I think Magoo and ChrisP both make good points. But I feel that Foreman's jab is somewhat forgotten in the equation. He had a very good, Liston-like jab when he felt like using it. If he used this to get Bowe off balance before unleashing at midrange I feel he has a good chance to get Bowe out of there.

Of course, Bowe's jab was far from piss-poor, so it would be interesting to see whose jab prevails. I think that might be the key to the battle.

[Muchmoore]

Who won this fight would depend on how bowe fought. If he fought from long range, used his jab and resisted the temptation to slug, he could take the fight into the mid-rounds where foreman tank would start to empty.

However, if chose to brawl with foreman, the fight would end early.

The thing is, Bowe simply couldn't stay at long range and use his physical advantages/jab to win. He'd do it for half a round here, a round there but then he'd negate his physical advantages and go toe to toe in a streetfight. It was able to work against Holyfield who was small and not a big puncher but would kill him against George.

[mr. magoo]

I think Magoo and ChrisP both make good points. But I feel that Foreman's jab is somewhat forgotten in the equation. He had a very good, Liston-like jab when he felt like using it. If he used this to get Bowe off balance before unleashing at midrange I feel he has a good chance to get Bowe out of there.

Of course, Bowe's jab was far from piss-poor, so it would be interesting to see whose jab prevails. I think that might be the key to the battle.

Perhaps I'm the only one, but to me Foreman's jab seemed to be more polished in his second career. He did not appear to incorporate much jabbing during the 70's and the jabs he threw were not the strait stiff jabs that Golata was tagging Bowe with, or that Holyfield was able to land either.

[Holmes' Jab]

He had a chance to outbox George, but I think the pre-Rumble version gets to Bowe inside the half way mark of a 15-rounder.

TKO6.

[MRBILL]

Foreman's jab was not fully developed in the 70s..... Foreman used it, but not as good as in his later years / comeback to boxing of say 1990.... The 70s Foreman threw everything wide or looping.... Foreman was much more complete and sharper in his early 40s....

Bowe's jab and quick right cross was always top-notch in quality.... Plus, Bowe was good on the inside for such a huge dude..... If Bowe doesn't get tagged solid by Foreman early on, it would get rough / hard for Foreman midway to late in the fight....

MR.BILL

[mr. magoo]

Foreman's jab was not fully developed in the 70s..... Foreman used it, but not as good as in his later years / comeback to boxing of say 1990.... The 70s Foreman threw everything wide or looping.... Foreman was much more complete and sharper in his early 40s....

Bowe's jab and quick right cross was always top-notch in quality.... Plus, Bowe was good on the inside for such a huge dude..... If Bowe doesn't get tagged solid by Foreman early on, it would get rough / hard for Foreman midway to late in the fight....

MR.BILL

I agree.

As preposterous as it may sound on the surface, I truly believe that Foreman, in some ways, was an improved fighter in his comeback. No, he was not as devastating in the early rounds as the 70's version, and truth be told, there were some fighters that a 70's Foreman would have been better suited to beating than a 90's George. But at the end of the day, I do feel that he was fundamentally more sound in his balded rebirth.

While Foreman from 1970-1976 had the power and aggression to utterly destroy fighters like Norton, Lyle and Frazier early, Foreman from 1989 to maybe 1994, was more mature mentally, had a far better defense, a more polished and frequently used jab, did not waste punches, had more accuracy and paced himself when onslaughts were not necessary. I think a 1991 Foreman could have gone 12 or 15 rounds with a 1974 Muhammad Ali by virtue of his new found conservative practices, defense and utilization of the jab. Ali would still take a decision of course, but this would be a tougher match. On the flipside, I also can't see a 1974 Foreman going 12 rounds with the real deal. I think he gasses himself out trying to clobber Holyfield early, and by the 7th or 8th round, Evander's heart and conditioning starts to take over enroute to a late stoppage.

[Bokaj]

Perhaps I'm the only one, but to me Foreman's jab seemed to be more polished in his second career. He did not appear to incorporate much jabbing during the 70's and the jabs he threw were not the strait stiff jabs that Golata was tagging Bowe with, or that Holyfield was able to land either.

I agree that Foreman made better use of his jab after his comeback. But even young Foreman used it to great effect at times (but too seldom), for example he set up Frazier for the heavy artillery with it. Kept him off balance and then teed off.

[apollack]

It would be a phenomenal war. Bowe had the better overall consistent attack and condition, but Foreman had the better power and chin. If the fight goes long, I give the edge to Bowe, but I suspect that Foreman was so damn strong that Bowe's chin would not be able to handle his brand of clubbing power and he'd go out. But that said, Bowe showed the heart of a lion against Golota, so who knows.

[GPater11093]

i think a 73 foreman would take hi out around the 8th

[godking]

Bowe would'nt have taken the fight in perhaps the most puncher laden HW era Bowe suspiciously found a way to avode/duck almost all of them.

[crippet]

Foreman easy KO within 4 rounds.

Bowes peak was 1 fight which his apologists use as a pointer to him winning, then take fights spread all over Georges career as pointers to George loosing - laughable really.

If Bowe went to war ala his best performance against smallyfield, against George, he would be knocked into orbit, hell Herbie Hide nearly had him out..

[DudeGuyMan]

Foreman easy KO within 4 rounds.

Bowes peak was 1 fight which his apologists use as a pointer to him winning, then take fights spread all over Georges career as pointers to George loosing - laughable really.

This. Bowe needed more than one really good win for me to rate him over anyone great.

[Casey91]

Foreman wins by K.O. before round 4.who did bowe fight that can dignify he could take a power punch from George.Holyfield's punch don't compare to George's at all.

[MRBILL]

I love Foreman, but, he was flawed in '73 when he clobbered a smaller and weaker Joe Frazier and some clustered fuck named Jose Roman in Japan..........

The Bowe who was hammering Bruce Seldon, Pierre Coetzer and Evander Holy in '92 was peaked at 24 / 25 yrs of age and had all his skills intact.........

Bowe of '92 BEATS Foreman of 1973......... IMO!!!

MR.BILL

[Casey91]

well yes joe was weaker than George but there wasn't alot of people who exactly matched george in power,another thing,so what if joe wasn't exactly big I personally think joe's left hook was better than any punch bowe could throw.I think you are right when you say george had flaws like defense and stamina but still he didn't fight anyone like Big George.

[MRBILL]

well yes joe was weaker than George but there wasn't alot of people who exactly matched george in power,another thing,so what if joe wasn't exactly big I personally think joe's left hook was better than any punch bowe could throw.I think you are right when you say george had flaws like defense and stamina but still he didn't fight anyone like Big George.


Bowe's right cross was WICKED when it landed clean upside a dude's head in 1991 and 1992....... I think Bowe's cross coming from a dude 232 to 246 pounds during that time was as hard if not harder than Frazier's primed left-hook......

MR.BILL:thumbsup

[Casey91]

Yes his right straight was great and he carried more weight but I think Joe could drop someone who weighs around 230 with a flush left hook easily but thats kind of getting off topic,still I just do not think you can compare someone like Big George to Bowe,we never saw anyone punch Bowe with a power punch like george could deliver.Bowe had a good jab and power but it just doesn't match up to George.

[PetethePrince]

Foreman savagely beats Bowe down inside 5 rounds.

[Sardu]

Foreman KO 5

[DudeGuyMan]

I love Foreman, but, he was flawed in '73 when he clobbered a smaller and weaker Joe Frazier and some clustered fuck named Jose Roman in Japan..........

The Bowe who was hammering Bruce Seldon, Pierre Coetzer and Evander Holy in '92 was peaked at 24 / 25 yrs of age and had all his skills intact.........

Both fought smaller champions to win the title, but George generated by far the superior result, easily blowing out an undefeated ATG. Harping on Foreman's comp doesn't wash when we're comparing him to Bowe, whose resume consists of nothing but Holyfield.

[Doppleganger]

I think Bowe might take this, against the popular opinion. In 1992 Bowe's punch resistance was still there and he had good size and power, as well as being very good on the inside. Chris has stated that Bowe never really faced a truly big puncher but I would say that Herbie Hide was that man. It doesn't matter that he was only a cruiserweight (which he was quite obviously). What matters is that Hide had heavy hands and the speed on his punches too. I'll wager it was the speed that cause Bowe so many problems and you're hurt by the punches you can't see, or can't get set for. Bowe says himself that Hide was the hardest puncher he faced.

Foreman didn't punch with blazing speed; he used his enormous strength and power to club people down into submission. Could Bowe withstand the fury of a 73 Foreman onslaught? I don't honestly know. What Bowe has in his favour is sheer physical size and the ability to throw a devastating uppercut on the inside. Foreman can't afford to take too many of those shots. If Bowe can get past the first 3 or 4 rounds then I think he takes it. As someone else mentioned it's not so much that Foreman had poor stamina it was more poor pacing. Bowe has the chin not to crumble at the first barrage and I think he takes Foreman into deep water and scores a TKO by about round 8.

Actually I've thought a little more about it. I see two scenarios; the first one as above and the second is that Foreman wins by an early rounds stoppage. Bowe's chin was not Chuvalo/McCall like after all.

[frankenfrank]

The thing is, Bowe simply couldn't stay at long range and use his physical advantages/jab to win. He'd do it for half a round here, a round there but then he'd negate his physical advantages and go toe to toe in a streetfight. It was able to work against Holyfield who was small and not a big puncher but would kill him against George.

so maybe :
(1) it will kill george if bowe does it
(2) bowe does not do it

also :
Holyfield did not outjab bowe.
i saw their 3 fights about 3-4 times each.
maybe he rarely landed his jab , but bowe got the better of him.
even holyfield's 'win' over bowe is very undecisive , and could have gone the other way. the only reason he deserved it was because of him making it a close to equal fight despite his disadvantages.
i think bowe had a very realistic chance against foreman , who lost decisions to worse h2h fighters and knocked down by young and out by ali.
i thought foreman was the small favorite to win , but thinking again , i really do not know but bowe stands a chance for sure.
maybe bowe is slightly overrated here , but foreman is very overrated here.

[DudeGuyMan]

After all, Bowe looked great in that one fight with Holyfield! :roll:

You know a guy's record is thin when someone has to say "Bruce Seldon" with a straight face.

[ThinBlack]

Does Bowe have a chance?

After two rounds, no.I don't think Riddick ever faced this type of power before, and once George really starts connecting, it's over.Even Eddie Futch won't be able to save him.

[Kalasinn]

Foreman savagely beats Bowe down inside 5 rounds.

OMG NO BLOODY WAY is Riddy Bowe half as GREAT as Ronny "teh monster puncher prison weight-lifter" Lyle!! :deal

PRIME Foreman by teh KO1 cos DESTROYINg PRIME Frazier does prove teh teh teh come-forward guys get DESTROYED by Foreman, FACT!!!:deal

teh.

teh.

teh.


Foreman Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook!:smoke:hat:rasta:smoke:rasta:hat




Warning, Foreman Hook impersonation not suitable for reading by minors.

[crippet]

B owe has a tendancy to be hit a lot in fights and the hardest puncher he has faced is Herbie Hide!!!

It is almost a forgone conclusion that Foreman would KO Bowe - I give Bowe virtually zero chance

[Bummy Davis]

There's no way the '73 Foreman is still going to have any gas left to pull out a TKO victory in the 12th round against an opponent who won't stay away from him.




I agree with most of this.


How well can Bowe take a shot? We've never really seen him against a big puncher; Hide, probably the best puncher he faced, had him out on his feet but was a cruiserweight and outsized as well as outclassed. Then again, he did have a shitty defence and shipped a lot of shots from genuine big men.. more so than Foreman. Incidentally, Foreman himself (the 70's version) is not that proven either. The only good puncher that landed on him was Lyle, and he nearly knocked him out.

Both of these come forward and look to trade hard punches. I'd say Foreman is the heavier handed of the two, but might also be less durable. Bowe has a big edge in stamina. Neither play much defence. If it comes an in-fight, the Brooklyn fighter has the edge; Foreman seemed to be most effective at medium range, while Bowe can fight at medium and short range.

Some will say that he was good from a distance as well, due to his size, but i disagree; the smaller Holyfield consistently outjabbed him and made him miss his overhand rights when he was dedicated to the jab.. also have a look on how Tubbs neutralised him by often staying at long range.



Going back to Bowe's durability.... he always took a lot of punches, even in his easy victories, most of his mediocre opponents still had 50+% connect rates... these were all 220lbs, big men. Something is gotta go, and that combined with his food addiction lead to a quick deterioration of his body. It is possible that his punch resistance also suffered a bit in that aspect. He had no trouble taking Holyfield's best shot over and over and over in '92 and 94, but late '95 he was nearly knocked out by the left hook he'd taken so well in the past.... and then Golota knocks him down twice and stuns him another 5 times or so. Golota is a good hitter, but not a devastating puncher.




So all together, i'm going with Bowe by 7th round TKO when Foreman is exhausted and not able to defend himself anymore.


I agree with Chris and Magoo on this...Bowe was easy to hit and would have to take some early swings but had enough skill and decent enough chin to get him past 5 rds. The younger Foreman was a 6 rd fighter 8 rds at his pace, once you run out of gas you are a sitting duck....Bowe had a chance to take him out if he avoids him early and does not get lazy...I rate Foreman higher but he was beatable in career 1, once he punched himself out

[hookfromhell]

Greatmatchup no doubt that Bowe was complete and technically polished
While foreman was not if Boweboxes he scores late round ko or decision
if its a brawl Foreman finishes him

[Azzer85]

Harping on Foreman's comp doesn't wash when we're comparing him to Bowe, whose resume consists of nothing but Holyfield.

And Tyson leftovers :good

I think Foreman walks through Bowe. People seem to forget that Foreman walked right through Alis jab and right hand and had him pinned against the ropes, he also walked through several clean Joe Frazier left hooks.

Bowe has a very leaky defense, Foreman walks through him.

Thats assuming Bowe doesnt dump something in the trash can rather than fight Foreman.......

[Flea Man]

Foreman would beat the shit out of Bowe.

[Flea Man]

Foreman's jab getting underrated here as well.

[Stevie G]

Bowe vacates the title in order to avoid Foreman.

It's a war for five rounds,but because of Bowe's suspect defense,he gets beaten down by George.

Foreman - By seventh.

[DrMo]

Bowe might start off by trying to box but he would be slugging with Foreman fairly quickly

Foreman KO4 in a brutal war

[SenorRamirez]

Bowe by KO in 12
his faster,he have a granit chin to,and he have a to good devens for george,and he have the pover to knock everbody out

[BUDW]

George pole axes Bowe in 6 or less rds

[sauhund II]

Bowe vacates the title in order to avoid Foreman.

It's a war for five rounds,but because of Bowe's suspect defense,he gets beaten down by George.

Foreman - By seventh.
Come again ?

Suspect chin?

The guy was NEVER STOPPED, even totally washed up in Nuthitter 2 he did not go anywhere.

Foreman on the other hand was STOPPED decisively.

Early Foreman is way to wild and wiiiiide open, lol, plus he would be the small guy. Bowe is the better athlete, has more skills , better schooled and possible hits harder too......he had Holy out cold once, almost out in the first while George landed a handful of his sig punches and Holy was shaken a little bit but that was it. Remember, power is the last thing to go.

So Einstein, let me ask you this , if Foreman was such a monster and Bowe was such a glasschin bum how come Foreman AVOIDED Bowe at all costs in his second career ? LOL, because he knew he would get starched..............even if you would have put a gun to his head he would have run for the hills.

In his short peaK Bowe was a excellent agressive fighter with real skills and one of the best if not the best infighting skills of a big man, never ran out of gas, excellent chin, fought the entire round and the guy had no quit in him. Eddie Futch called him one of the best Hwy ever.......but the guy had ghetto demons which he could not get under control.

LOL, avoided big hitters ? , yeah , because Hide,Gonzales or Cooper aren't punchers, lol, they are not the uhs and ahs of boxing but those guys sure could crack.......

[Azzer85]

This fight and Tyson/Liston are 2 fights that are really hard to predict to be honest. I think both fights are about who can really impose their will on the other guy.

Foreman did say something to the effect of, 'They all ran, Frazier tried to be tough but in the end, he ended up running, Ali just lay on the ropes, the only man who pushed George Foreman back was Sonny Liston'

[Threetime no1]

I don't think Bowe could stay disciplined long enough to beat Foreman. Once Foreman catches him with something Bowe will wanna fight which i see being his undoing.

Riddick while having a good chin could be hit and hurt and he never got hit as hard has George would hit him.

[SenorRamirez]

Bowe is BIGGER than Foreman,1-2 jabs,a uppercut and im sure,foreman would be hurt to ;)
Bowes power and chin are underrated