Naseem Hamed v Ricky Hatton

[colinthfc]

When Hamed was in his prime he talked of winning titles up to light weight. Now Pacman has gone 2 steps further such idea is more credible.

Imagine Hamed had not lost focus, not switched trainers or shirked in training. Now think of this natural power and whether it would have been so effective so far out of his natural weight class.

Would Ricky bludgen him into submission or could he himself get caught by one of those famous cork screw punches?

[colinthfc]

When Hamed was in his prime he talked of winning titles up to light weight. Now Pacman has gone 2 steps further such idea is more credible.

Imagine Hamed had not lost focus, not switched trainers or shirked in training. Now think of this natural power and whether it would have been so effective so far out of his natural weight class.

Would Ricky bludgen him into submission or could he himself get caught by one of those famous cork screw punches?

After I posted this I did not get a single response. However I punter suggests this to Buncey on the Boxing hour he wins a DVD

[Cobbler]

After I posted this I did not get a single response. However I punter suggests this to Buncey on the Boxing hour he wins a DVD

Yep, you got screwed.

[GazOC]

After I posted this I did not get a single response. However I punter suggests this to Buncey on the Boxing hour he wins a DVD

Well if thats the level of fight that won the DVDs, I'm glad I lost...;)

[Betty Swollocks]

Naz woulda knocked him out...nae sweat.

[faisal]

if some one of hattons skill,style and talent fought at naz's weight class or visa versa its hard not to see ricky loosing by brutal KO

[GazOC]

"Brutal KO" is SO 2005 ESB....;O)

[Cobbler]

"Brutal KO" is SO 2005 ESB....;O)

Hatton would be check hooked into oblivion, clearly.

[p.Townend]

Id pick Naz to win by ko

[Kid Lucky]

Hatton would bully him out of the fight at LWW.

[PaddyD1983]

Well if thats the level of fight that won the DVDs, I'm glad I lost...;)

Snap

I thought my Conteh v Calzaghe would be nailed on!

[jc]

Silly one sided fight. Cant beleive Bunce even picked it... :huh

Calzaghe - Fitzsimmons shouldve been the winner!

[TFFP]

Hamed by savage KO

[PaddyD1983]

This fight is basically between my two polarised boxers.

Hatton by a brutal beat down.

I genuinely believe that. But expect nothing but grief for it. Hatton stalks Naz. Naz lands a couple of bombs, Hatton goes nowhere, Naz bricks it and takes punishment.

["TKO"]

Pound for pound, Hamed probably knocks him out (though if Paul Ingle could drag him towards deep water late on, there's a chance Hatton could do it). If they met at junior welter, Hamed would get bullied and beaten silly. He was never proven at anything above featherweightm there's no way he could beat one of the strongest 140 fighters ever.

[brown bomber]

Naz talked about titles all the way up to light middle!

[Mike_S]

It is quite laughable. All whining over Naz's lack of focus aside he fell apart when facing a live test in his prime, and at his weight, never mind a heavier bully who would land heavy shots. Naz was a power bully, Hatton would harrass him out of the fight.

When Naz was active all we heard, mostly from Barry McGuigan, was 'Naz has got those tree trunk legs, he will move up in weight'. Nonsense, he stpped up in class, was bullied out of it and tumbled down to European class, where he looked shit in that last contest. All at his prime weight.

Hatton is a natural LWW who won his title against a better fighter than Naz (Kostya) in my view, who also hit Hatton on the chin with big shots, repeatedly. Hatton survives that but would lose to a fat and bloated Hamed, assuming cathweight is not super feather. It is crazy.

Hamed was fun, yep, exciting, yep, but deeply flawed and not, in my view, suited mentally to taking on the likes of Hatton and Barrera. Naz went for Marco simply because Barrera lost to Morales, and looked like he may suffer from the after effects of that war, it was not a noble move, it was a gambit, and it backfired. In the process we found that Naz is not quite the boxer we had hoped he would be.
When did he look awful and come down a weight? Barrera was the one stepping up to feather from super bantam and most had him winning the first Morales fight anyway, he looked the more dangerous opponent to me.

[PaddyD1983]

It is quite laughable. All whining over Naz's lack of focus aside he fell apart when facing a live test in his prime, and at his weight, never mind a heavier bully who would land heavy shots. Naz was a power bully, Hatton would harrass him out of the fight.

When Naz was active all we heard, mostly from Barry McGuigan, was 'Naz has got those tree trunk legs, he will move up in weight'. Nonsense, he stpped up in class, was bullied out of it and tumbled down to European class, where he looked shit in that last contest. All at his prime weight.

Hatton is a natural LWW who won his title against a better fighter than Naz (Kostya) in my view, who also hit Hatton on the chin with big shots, repeatedly. Hatton survives that but would lose to a fat and bloated Hamed, assuming cathweight is not super feather. It is crazy.

Hamed was fun, yep, exciting, yep, but deeply flawed and not, in my view, suited mentally to taking on the likes of Hatton and Barrera. Naz went for Marco simply because Barrera lost to Morales, and looked like he may suffer from the after effects of that war, it was not a noble move, it was a gambit, and it backfired. In the process we found that Naz is not quite the boxer we had hoped he would be.

:happy:happy:happy

[El Cepillo]

Naz was a natural super-bantamweight, and a small featherweight. Hatton has fought at welterweight.

P4P Naz is the MUCH bigger puncher and H2H he is the better fighter.

But in reality, Hatton is too big and would probablly KO Naz late, or win on points.

[Mike_S]

I agree, I am surprised this won the best match up award, the weight difference is too big. Great fantasy though.

[El Cepillo]

It is quite laughable. All whining over Naz's lack of focus aside he fell apart when facing a live test in his prime, and at his weight, never mind a heavier bully who would land heavy shots. Naz was a power bully, Hatton would harrass him out of the fight.

When Naz was active all we heard, mostly from Barry McGuigan, was 'Naz has got those tree trunk legs, he will move up in weight'. Nonsense, he stpped up in class, was bullied out of it and tumbled down to European class, where he looked shit in that last contest. All at his prime weight.

Hatton is a natural LWW who won his title against a better fighter than Naz (Kostya) in my view, who also hit Hatton on the chin with big shots, repeatedly. Hatton survives that but would lose to a fat and bloated Hamed, assuming cathweight is not super feather. It is crazy.

Hamed was fun, yep, exciting, yep, but deeply flawed and not, in my view, suited mentally to taking on the likes of Hatton and Barrera. Naz went for Marco simply because Barrera lost to Morales, and looked like he may suffer from the after effects of that war, it was not a noble move, it was a gambit, and it backfired. In the process we found that Naz is not quite the boxer we had hoped he would be.

You think Naz was in his prime in 2001? :huh I would say that was at least 4, maybe 5 or 6 years PAST his prime. I wouldn't say featherweight was his prime weight either, he was a natural super-bantamweight IMO, he had to fill his pants with weights just to make 114 in his early pro days. I also don't believe that losing a points decsion to a prime version of an ATG in MAB proves anything. Nothing at all, it was one loss, to a quality fighter, nothing more-nothing less. It's a bizzare thing for you to suggest that losing to MAB makes Naz "European class".

When Lennox Lewis got brutally KO'd by Rahmam, did then send Lennox tumbling down to "domestic class"? :-( Obviously NOT. So why would losing 7-4 to MAB make Naz Euro class? Thats a shocking and ridiculous double standared. One last thing, while given the rather insourmountable size difference, I would certainly pick Hatton to beat Naz, however, if a feather fisted puncher like FLOYD can brutually KO Hatton, it don't understand why you're naive enough to totally rule out and discredit the idea that P4P one of the greatest one-shot power punchers in the history of boxing, Naz, couldn't land something on Hatton that sends him to sleep.

["TKO"]

Never said he came down in weight, he came down in class (European is not a weight, it is a class), and I made the point that the Morales-Barrera was a hugely draining experience, and that Hamed went for the guy who had previously lost to Jones, and had looked faded once before, rather than Morales, who was on a roll.

This is a bit unfair I think. The vast majority of observers felt Barrera won that fight and it was Morales, rather than him, who was hurt several times and looked exhausted at the end. If he had gone for Morales, he would have got stick for avoiding the "real" winner of that fight. Hamed couldn't win on this one.

["TKO"]

Right, so Naz was striking a blow for justice was he? Do not be daft, he thought that Marco had had one last hurrah, and prepared accordingly. It was a sign that he is not up to the top levels, where you need to be focussed.

Hardly, I'm just pointing out that whichever guy he had chosen to face, the haters would have been out in their droves. Comments such as "he thought Marco had one last hurrah" are just silly when the two guys were the same age and Hamed had probably fought the tougher opposition to that date, Morales excepted. How on earth can you claim to somehow know what a fighter was thinking?

[PaddyD1983]

Unsurprisingly, I'm with Terry on this one.

But to get back to the thread question...

Naz is far too small for Hatton. Head to head Hatton wins every time. Pound for pound power lies firmly with Naz. But Hatton's pressure fighting would be too much for Naz. He could work angles well but his balance was never great, he'd be picking himself off the canvas a number of times before losing a points decision.

Hatton has faced harder punchers (in real terms, not P4P) than Naz in Kostya. Hatton had a flash KD against Magee but other than that the only times he's looked hurt are when he's been careless (PBF and Lazcano). If we're talking prime for prime then Ricky doesnt make those mistakes against Naz. Naz will land but not nearly as much as he gets bullied.

[PaddyD1983]

Naz'a fans are a bit like Tyson's. They have to shrink wrap his prime (although saying it was at SBW exclusively is a new one) or blame it all on Naz's refusal to train properly. Someone mentioned Lewis, a true great, why was he? Because he took the knocks and came back strong, Naz could not do this. Exciting, yes. Sold newspapers, yes. Fun to watch, yes. But Naz a great? No.

I agree, in terms of natural ability Naz had it all. But he lacked the mental discipline to;

a) make him great; and
b) fight the required fight rather than his fight all the time.

He should have boxed the head off Kevin Kelly and never looked in trouble, instead he looked for one shot and got handed his ass in the process. Fundamental flaw when looking to rank a boxer as elite. Surely?

[PaddyD1983]

Probably the only thing we differ on then.

I dont like Naz.

Great to watch. But only because I was hoping he'd be kayoed every time

;)

[PaddyD1983]

He kept you watching though! I liked Naz. I also liked Incredible by General Levy, I have no taste!

He did keep me watching! And kept the general British publics interest in boxing alive. I do think the sport owes him a lot in terms of profile. But I think he's massively overrated in terms of ability.

[El Cepillo]

We are talking about Naz, not Lewis, why do guys insist on dragging other fighters into it, perhaps to prove points that Naz's career cannot prove? I will deal with Lewis anyway, in a sentence. Lewis lost and went for Butler, a world ranked dangerman, Hamed lost and went for a guy who would barely scrape European rankings. Talk about naive, at least try to pretend to know what you are talking about.

Naz was still in his physical prime. His problem was arrogance and drift, watch the doc prior to Barrera, why was he awful in training? Because he was KO crazy, his mind, not his body, was in decline, and boxing is part mental, so no sympathy for Naz on that front. Five years past his prime, are you sure you want to commit to that viewpoint? Now, look at the claim that Naz was only in his prime at SBW, and was not even a feather, you then propose that he can beat a strong LWW? You napalmed your own point, and it was poor to start with!

Do not give me that 7-4 in rounds nonsense either, for starters it was a 12-round bout, fine, got 8-4 and throw in the -1 for Barrera, at least be clear. Plus, Hamed may has lost relatively narrowly on the cards, there was a -1 on Barrera's slate also, but he was dominated in boxing terms, exposed brutally in that turnbuckle incident (more so than Hatton) and in his next fight we saw the prince without his robes, and it was not a pretty sight.

Hamed met adversity, did not like it, and promptly retired. You, his fan, do not even rate him as a feather, but he would KO Hatton? :lol:

People use other boxers and scenarios to make points. It's like highlighting Ali's resume to show how weak Vitali Klitschko's resume is, there are a million other examples. Obviously this practise - which is used in life, in sport, and in anything else which you care to mention, is just too sensible and logical for you to comprehend.

... I reiterate that losing on points to MAB does not make Naz "Euro level", no more than being KO'd by Rahman makes Lennox "domestic level", that is the logic with which you invest your argument - the subtext of which is: "one loss proves everything bad I have to say about Naz, no matter how illogical, unsubstantiated or biased my opinion is".

When you consider a fighters "prime" it should be a given that we are talking about all the facets that make up a boxers ability to fight effectively and perform at an optimum level.

Hamed's focus and motivation were in decline from Kelley onwards, and it was certainly evident prior to the Wilfredo Vasquez debacle. I'm perfectly happy to commit to the position that Hamed's best years were 95/96/97 as that was when his body and mind were in sync and therefore when Naz was at his absolute prime. You seem to think 2001 was Hamed's prime, that is a very abstract opinion, for which I see absolutely no evidence.

I would also say, as I have already said, that Naz was a natural super-bantam weight, and a naturally small featherweight. I did not say, "Naz was in his prime when he was a super-bantamweight". A subtle, but significant difference, that seems to be lost on you.

It's always the last resort of a desperate, poorly informed poster to start imagining what other people have said, in some regards you seem to be having an imaginary conversation with yourself; I categorically DID NOT say Naz would be a "strong LWW", or that he "would KO Hatton" thats a complete fantasy on your part, and shows how desperate and worthless your opinion really is, perhaps you have the reading age of a 7 year old, or perhaps you're just an insecure little punk who doesn't know when to quit.

What I DID SAY, was that if Hatton could get KO'd by someone as feather-fisted as Floyd, then its is not beyond the realms of comprehension that a massive, one-punch, KO artist like Naz could land something that sent Ricky to sleep - Likely? no. Possible? absolutely. Hatton is not some iron-chinned demigod, and Naz wasn't exactly lacking in the power depertment.

["TKO"]

I am not, I am surmising, which given that this is about opinions is allowed. My opinion is based on the fact that, when they were SBW's, Naz was inferior, in terms of technique and craft, to Marco. MAB was better at the weight, then stepped up and had a war, with Hamed then suddenly becoming eager to mention MAB's name, which had not been on many lips.

As for the 'same age' point, look at their respective fights up to that point, or watch them, Barrera had more mileage. Naz got exposed, and quit shortly afterwards. Hatton would hammer him, it is a joke match.

We agree on this. I have seen plenty of Barrera's fights up to that point and I am aware that he had some toughies (mainly Morales and McKinney), however, this was mainly due to his own early give-and-take style. Once he refined his technique he became the better for it. I don't think they were any different in craft and technique when they were SBW, Hamed was more unorthodox, but MAB a bit too aggressive and reckless. The difference was, MAB worked at it while Hamed let it go to sh1t for the sake of gunning for KOs in every match. I'm no real fan of his these days, but he sure could have done more than he eventually did.

["TKO"]

What I DID SAY, was that if Hatton could get KO'd by someone as feather-fisted as Floyd, then its is not beyond the realms of comprehension that a massive, one-punch, KO artist like Naz could land something that sent Ricky to sleep - Likely? no. Possible? absolutely. Hatton is not some iron-chinned demigod, and Naz wasn't exactly lacking in the power depertment.

Like you say, possible maybe, likely, no. This whole discussion is pure conjecture as we will never know how Hamed would have done above featherweight. But bearing in mind that it took a lot of clean shots in the last three rounds and Hatton to get tired before PBF was able to score the KO, I sure don't think Hamed would have one-shotted him. I just see Hatton running him out of the ring. I think Naz would have been fat at 140 anyway, he started as a flyweight and had done most of his moving up by the time he hit world class.

Plus, Mayweather hit pretty sharply at 130, part of the reason he had not scored many KOs at welter was he was taking on much bigger guys (Baldomir, DLH for example). He would never have got the time to get his shots off against Hatton.

Just my opinion though :good

[PowerPuncher]

Well Hatton ducked Hamed-lite for 10years :D If Hamed carry's 140 well he just batters Hatton, hes simply a different class of fighter but carrying 140 well wouldn't be easy for a 5'4 fighter who started at Flyweight. And for the record Hamed was a bigger puncher at 126 than Mayweather was at 130. The fact that this is even being asked shows how highly we rank Naz. The funny thing is no one will ask 'how would Hatton do against Benn/Eubanks'

[PowerPuncher]

For the record Barrera was robbed against Morales, had it 9-3 or 8-4 for MAB

[PowerPuncher]

Don't forget, Naseem had those big, thick legs. Heavyweight legs, according to Bazza :lol:

Always a bit of a fatty boy like Hatton himself, never truly ripped to shreds and could have stayed at 118 for years (nevermind 122) if he was dedicated to getting into the shape of his life.

Very strong legs, torso and midsection though and his power came directly from there

So many fighters like Hamed, Tyson, Toney, Benitez that you have to ask 'what if they were dedicated'

["TKO"]

Well Hatton ducked Hamed-lite for 10years :D If Hamed carry's 140 well he just batters Hatton, hes simply a different class of fighter but carrying 140 well wouldn't be easy for a 5'4 fighter who started at Flyweight. And for the record Hamed was a bigger puncher at 126 than Mayweather was at 130. The fact that this is even being asked shows how highly we rank Naz. The funny thing is no one will ask 'how would Hatton do against Benn/Eubanks'

I would say there's no way in hell he would carry 140, at 5'3" and having never fought above feather he'd be fat as hell. Plus, even if he did, Hamed was having a very dodgy time of it against Hatton lite in Paul Ingle. P4P Hamed would probably be favoured at his peak, at 140 Hatton demolishes him.

["TKO"]

For the record Barrera was robbed against Morales, had it 9-3 or 8-4 for MAB

Had it a bit narrower than that (115-112) but yeah I think it was a clear win for MAB

[PowerPuncher]

I would say there's no way in hell he would carry 140, at 5'3" and having never fought above feather he'd be fat as hell. Plus, even if he did, Hamed was having a very dodgy time of it against Hatton lite in Paul Ingle. P4P Hamed would probably be favoured at his peak, at 140 Hatton demolishes him.

Probably not but if he added weight bodybuilding style like Pacman does and added it to his legs, shoulders, lower back he'd be very competitive at the weight and carry his power up

[The_Hitman92]

If they met at 140 Hatton would smash him around the ring.

[faisal]

terry when u started comparing hattons performance against a past prime kostay of 2005 with Naz's 1 against prime MAB of 2001 i didnt want to read any more.
you really think a come foward pressure brawler with no jab has the boxing skill to do what berrara did to naz that really is astonishing

[PaddyD1983]

terry when u started comparing hattons performance against a past prime kostay of 2005 with Naz's 1 against prime MAB of 2001 i didnt want to read any more.
you really think a come foward pressure brawler with no jab has the boxing skill to do what berrara did to naz that really is astonishing

Fail.

See all pre Kostya fights for this. Hatton's jab was quality early doors, it's since he hit the big time that he toned it down. Not sure why. It was back against Paulie.

Besides, prime MAB? Probably not. Coming into his prime. I would say MAB was just before his prime when he and Naz fought as Kostya was past his when he and Hatton fought.

[faisal]

On his best night when he was at his peak against his best opponent there was no jab..........
he was given all he could handle against thaxton, spent the majority of his younger years defending a micky mouse title and what puts an end to this bullshit discussion is the ducking and dodging of witter, he didnt have it in him to fight witter and looked stoned faced on several occasions naz was more unorthodox and P4P had more power then witter he'd kill Hatton if they were in the same weight division

[widdy]

naz was a big puncher at feather,but no way on this earth would naz beat hatton.
to much movement and hooking off the JAB would put naz on the deck more times than kevin kelly did,who would of sparked naz,it was a case of who would catch who next would go.

ps,sorry i ment to say,hatton ducking junior shitter,don't make me laugh,he would eat witter for breakfest,then box someone on his level

[PaddyD1983]

On his best night when he was at his peak against his best opponent there was no jab..........


Game plan?

Hug and hold style was custom made to bee zoo.

[9Ball]

Once again someone who doesn't like Hatton brings up the old 'Junior Witter' bollocks. The man never earned his shot at Hatton and was proven to be shite when he lost against a nobody.

[KCD]

I seriously cannot believe anyone.....i mean anyone is even thinking of picking Hamed:lol:

Whoever complains about Hattons apparent lack of skills wants to see Hamed stripped down, once his reflexes slowed down he became beatable.

Plus for Hameds awesome power, yes it was compared to other 126lbers but if anyone truely believes that Naseem Hamed hits harder or as hard as Kostya Tszyu then you really need to find another sport to watch. There was a reason why Hamed never stepped up to 130 like he always said he would and that is because of Mayweather, Corrales, etc.

Hatton would violently rape Hamed inside 4 rounds. And it wouldnt be competitive.

["TKO"]

Once again someone who doesn't like Hatton brings up the old 'Junior Witter' bollocks. The man never earned his shot at Hatton and was proven to be shite when he lost against a nobody.

Agree, same old, same old. Hatton didn't want to give Witter a shot for personal reasons (i.e. he didn't like him or want to make his name for him by giving him a shot). Witter knew this as well, which was why for all his posturing and mouthing off in the papers he never put in a firm offer to Hatton for a fight. I bet Hatton, who has stepped into the ring with Tszyu, Castillo, Mayweather and soon to be Pacquiao was terrified of the guy who struggled with Ndou and Colin Lynes :patsch

[GazOC]

Fail.

See all pre Kostya fights for this. Hatton's jab was quality early doors, it's since he hit the big time that he toned it down. Not sure why. It was back against Paulie.



Maybe the jab that was effective at domestic/ WBU class wasn't getting the job done at real world class and Hatton just went from not using as much to not using it at all?

[GazOC]

Had it a bit narrower than that (115-112) but yeah I think it was a clear win for MAB

Yep, but MAB got gifted the other fight against Morales.

[faisal]

I didn't want to read anymore when I saw Kostya's name mangled, but I did, and it was not massively interesting.

I did not say Hatton would beat him in the same way, just that he would beat him. Please, feel free to read a full post, you may actually get the drift of what I am saying.

As for Kostya, he was coming off a win over Mitchell that made a mockery of their first fight. Also, he fought like Tszyu in the middle rounds versus Hatton. If you followed Kostya's career, and I assume you did not, you would have noticed that he does not like it up him. I am a huge fan of the guy but as soon as Phillips ragged on his arse he started to fade, and lost his appetite for the battle. Ditto in the Hatton fight.

No one said that Kostya was done prior to the fight, in fact he was a huge favourite, he was in good form, was looking strong and, injury lay-off aside, had more about him than most active boxers. Hatton had the right style, took away his heart, smothered him, which is what you needed to do against Kostya to avoid the right on the way in, and the left hook on the way out.

Incidentally, Tszyu's left hook was actually improved in the second Mitchell fight, suggesting that he still had lots left, Hatton finished him off.

I hope you did not stop reading this one early, perhaps, instead of trying to belittle Hatton's win, you could give us the benefit of your wisdom by telling us how Naz would win this ridiculous fantasy match up, something that has yet to be stated outside of "He would F-ing knock him aht, oh baaaby!"
how would he beat him, hatton telegraphs allot of shots when he finally got in with a fighter who still had his reflexes intact he paid for it.
Kostay wasnt shot but he wasnt in his prime this is fact he was still very good but not at his peak my argument is you cant use such a fight as a yard stick to MAB/naz and of course hatton was an underdog at that point he'd fought no one, Hatton for the most part has always been allowed to fight his fight on the inside when he's denied this hes a fairly simple fighter.
You argue that the first time Naz faced some 1 in his prime he was found out this statement backfires in your face when hatton faced some 1 who was a natural lww in floyd in his prime he was outclassed and KO'd. Floyd may have been P4P no1 in 07 but berrara was also in the top 10 at a time when the P4P list was stacked with better fighters.

[JonOli]

Naseem turned 35 just the other week. Perhaps there's time for one big fight comeback special.

I think my money would comfortably be on Hatton.:D

I'd go for Hatton in their primes as well, the difference in weight would be too much for a start... imo...

[Ilesey]

Hatton would have mauled Hamed about and probablt stopped him.

[ryanm8655]

Funny thread...

I like HAtton...awesome character and generally good for boxing...but the fact ppl are even considering Hamed vs Hatton firstly shows what crap boxing fans talk but also shows how good Naz was...who has Hatton beat who was better than Naz's opponents? Past prime Tszuyu? Hmm...I'd argue Naz beat people just as good?

[KCD]

Once again how would a small 126lber beat a massive 140lber?

Naz would get owned.