Henry Armstrong vs Floyd Mayweather

[Rob3]

Sorry if this one's been done before (or atleast recently).

Let's say at 140lbs.

Thoughts?

[Longhhorn71]

Lay on the ropes and Hank beats the frap out of you.

Armstrong by UD

[Minotauro]

I think Armstrong would outwork to a decision and by a comfortable margin.

[My2Sense]

This would be even better to make at 130, where both men were at their peaks, and among the best ever at that weight.

Either way, I'll take Armstrong by split decision, with his tireless attack, superior infighting skill, and iron chin combining to give him the edge.

[laxpdx]

Floyd will have nowhere to run against this guy. Hank will wear him out with his unrelenting attack. Armstrong by comfortable UD or late round TKO.

[OuterDrake]

PBF by UD..Armstrong had a rep for losing to fighters with defensive styles and low ko ratios(Lou Ambers) to take note.ppl see 100+ wins and assume he fought p4p when majority were cans with 100-50 type records.Arms had early loses in his career in which floyd did not.Talent today and technique has improved vastly.He'd have to train in todays standards and then we have to assume he could adapt to a foot work tactician like Floyd.

[SteveO]

I think Armstrong would win a close one but I also think his face would be a bloody mess at the end.

[Minotauro]

PBF by UD..Armstrong had a rep for losing to fighters with defensive styles and low ko ratios(Lou Ambers) to take note.ppl see 100+ wins and assume he fought p4p when majority were cans with 100-50 type records.Arms had early loses in his career in which floyd did not.Talent today and technique has improved vastly.He'd have to train in todays standards and then we have to assume he could adapt to a foot work tactician like Floyd.

His fights with Ambers were like toe to toe war and he lost that fight becuase he threw like 5 low blows and even then it was seen as a robbery. The fight is on the net I thought Armstrong won by a wide margin, have you seen the fight?

[Sweet Pea]

Talent today and technique has improved vastly.At least now we know we don't need to take your opinion seriously in the future.

[FINITO]

Floyd would win a close decision.

[My2Sense]

PBF by UD..Armstrong had a rep for losing to fighters with defensive styles and low ko ratios(Lou Ambers) to take note.

No he didn't, he had a rep for shutting down and pounding his way through defensive styles - Ross, Ambers (both fights), Wright, Roderick, Angott, Belloise, Larkin, etc., etc.

[CottoDaBodykill]

At least now we know we don't need to take your opinion seriously in the future.
:rofl thats so funny

[My2Sense]

His fights with Ambers were like toe to toe war and he lost that fight becuase he threw like 5 low blows and even then it was seen as a robbery. The fight is on the net I thought Armstrong won by a wide margin, have you seen the fight?

Armstrong dominated that fight IMO. He pounded Ambers even worse than in their first fight.

Armstrong was the victim of two blatantly fixed results in his career, this one and the Garcia draw. Imagine if he had been allowed to retain his lightweight title, or if he had won the middleweight title.

[Bill Butcher]

I rank Floyd higher than most but I gotta go with Armstrong in this one.
Hank wasnt that easy to hit, he threw every punch in the book & he stayed on you like glue at his best.

I think Armstrong might take a close decision, Floyd likes rest patches to think & annalyse but I dont see him getting much space in this one.

[True Writer]

Yep Armstrong wins this one for me.

[PowerPuncher]

Ask yourself and answer the following:

Who will have the higher connect percentage? And what do you think Armstrong's connect % would be? Similar bigger fighters have been kept between 15-20%, with little to no flush shots landing

Who in Armstrong's resume has the defensive ability of FMJ?

Who in Armstrong's resume has the offensive speed, accuracy and timing of a Mayweather? Is it likely Mayweather will land his best shots flush time and again on Armstrongs much more open defense?

Would Mayweather be 1 of the bigger punchers Armstrong faced? I say yes

Every Classic regular knows my stance on this match up, so I'll just throw those questions up.

[GPater11093]

im not sure i can see a SFW or a LW floyd out boxing him in a tight match at LWW and WW i see armstrong outworking him by a wide UD

[Drew101]

Ask yourself and answer the following:

Who will have the higher connect percentage? And what do you think Armstrong's connect % would be? Similar bigger fighters have been kept between 15-20%, with little to no flush shots landing

Who in Armstrong's resume has the defensive ability of FMJ?

Who in Armstrong's resume has the offensive speed, accuracy and timing of a Mayweather? Is it likely Mayweather will land his best shots flush time and again on Armstrongs much more open defense?

Would Mayweather be 1 of the bigger punchers Armstrong faced? I say yes

Every Classic regular knows my stance on this match up, so I'll just throw those questions up.

Oh, I think Mayweather could win this fight, but in order to do so, he'll be made to work for three minutes of each round, fight in the trenches far more than he might wish to do so, and generally work at a higher activity level than he used throughout much of his career.

Does he have the edge in defensive abilty? Certainly. Hand speed? For a single shot, I would say yes, as well. And, while not a huge puncher, I don't think Mayweather's power is completely negligible.

But Armstrong wasn't completely devoid of defence or skill. He moved his head on the way in, closed the distance rapidly, threw a wide variety of combinations and never really seemed to attack the same way twice. That's a lot to contend with. Plus, Armstrong hit damned hard, and was virtually impossible to stop.

I think Mayweather has his moments, and banks the early rounds. I think Armstrong weathers those moments, and surges late to win a close decision. Hell of a fight, though.

[My2Sense]

Who will have the higher connect percentage?

I don't know, I think it's about even.

Similar bigger fighters have been kept between 15-20%, with little to no flush shots landing

What fighters were those, and exactly how "similar" were they to Armrstrong?

Who in Armstrong's resume has the defensive ability of FMJ?

Off the top of my head - Barney Ross, Tippy Larkin.

Who in Armstrong's resume has the offensive speed, accuracy and timing of a Mayweather?

Larkin for sure.

Is it likely Mayweather will land his best shots flush time and again on Armstrongs much more open defense?

No, because Armstrong's defense was no more "open" than Mayweather's was. He was every bit as skilled a technician on the inside as Mayweather.

Would Mayweather be 1 of the bigger punchers Armstrong faced?

No, Jenkins and Garcia were much bigger. Zivic was bigger too.

[PowerPuncher]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Who will have the higher connect percentage?

1. I don't know, I think it's about even.

Quote:
Similar bigger fighters have been kept between 15-20%, with little to no flush shots landing
2. What fighters were those, and exactly how "similar" were they to Armrstrong?

Quote:
Who in Armstrong's resume has the defensive ability of FMJ?
3. Off the top of my head - Barney Ross, Tippy Larkin.

Quote:
Who in Armstrong's resume has the offensive speed, accuracy and timing of a Mayweather?
4. Larkin for sure.

Quote:
Is it likely Mayweather will land his best shots flush time and again on Armstrongs much more open defense?
5. No, because Armstrong's defense was no more "open" than Mayweather's was. He was every bit as skilled a technician on the inside as Mayweather.

Quote:
Would Mayweather be 1 of the bigger punchers Armstrong faced?
6. No, Jenkins and Garcia were much bigger. Zivic was bigger too.
.

1. LMAO at Armstrong connecting the same percentage of his shots as FMJ, if your making a case for Armstrong you claim his workrate will be too much for Mayweather (not that similar high outputs have been too much of a problem). Theres not a chance in hell Armstrong will be connecting with near the accuracy because that wasn't even his game.

2. Mayweathers done this to plenty of similar fighters to Armstrong - Chavez and Hatton are incredibly similar in style were restricted to around 10-20%. Castillo and Delahoya not as similar were also kept around this level

3. Ross and Larkin haven't got near to the bunch of defensive tricks of FMJ and neither the speed of reaction

4. Personally I'd go with Robinson as the only man comparable to Mayweather's offensive speed, timing and accuracy. And its rumoured Ray carried Armstrong. Larkin isn't in the same dimension hear

5. Armstrong isnt near the defensive fighter and to suggest otherwise is laughable. Hes obviously far easier to hit. Armstrong was ofcourse skilled working on the inside at an amazing pace. That doesn't mean he wouldn't be open to counters because he would.

6. I asked if Mayweather was 1 of the harder punchers as its often assumed fighters will walk through his shots, despite him scoring emphatic KO's/TKO's that other top fighters don't come near to replicating.

Zivic had a ko percent of 36%, Garcia 47%, Jenkins 42%. That in itself doesn't mean they couldn't punch, but they weren't Hearnesque either.

Its my contention because of the these reasons that Mayweather will outbox HA, land cleaner than anyway HA has faced, land more than anyone he faced and be 1 of the bigger more damaging punchers HA has faced while being too defensively sound to catch that much back in return.

[My2Sense]

1. LMAO at Armstrong connecting the same percentage of his shots as FMJ, if your making a case for Armstrong you claim his workrate will be too much for Mayweather (not that similar high outputs have been too much of a problem). Theres not a chance in hell Armstrong will be connecting with near the accuracy because that wasn't even his game.

But what makes you think Mayweather is going to be accurate himself? Armstrong was great at minimizing his opponent's accuracy, while Mayweather's never proven he can maintain his accuracy against an infighter a skilled as Armstrong.

2. Mayweathers done this to plenty of similar fighters to Armstrong - Chavez and Hatton are incredibly similar in style were restricted to around 10-20%. Castillo and Delahoya not as similar were also kept around this level You mentioned similar style fighters that were bigger. I'm asking specifically who were those fighters?

Also, I asked to what extent those fighters were similar to Armstrong. Hatton and especially Chavez both lack the infighting skill and the chin of Armstrong, and in general were not in his class. As you acknowledged, Castillo and DeLaHoya were even less similar to Armstrong than that. DeLaHoya shouldn't even be mentioned here.

Incidentally, if you're looking to compare how each fighter did against "similar" opponents, those fighters you listed were all able to get in on Mayweather consistently and gave him rough, hard fights. Floyd didn't simply dominate or control them the way Armstrong did to Ross and other defensive boxers.

3. Ross and Larkin haven't got near to the bunch of defensive tricks of FMJ and neither the speed of reaction Larkin was easily as fast as Mayweather, and as fast as any fighter around his weight, as he showed in easily outspeeding Billy Graham. What "tricks" specifically did Larkin lack?

4. Personally I'd go with Robinson as the only man comparable to Mayweather's offensive speed, timing and accuracy. And its rumoured Ray carried Armstrong. Larkin isn't in the same dimension hear Again, no one else was ever able to time and land on Graham as consistently as Larkin did, not even the great Kid Gavilan, one of the fastest and most precise punchers ever. Larkin is not "out of the dimension" of anyone, even Ray.


Zivic had a ko percent of 36%, Garcia 47%, Jenkins 42%. That in itself doesn't mean they couldn't punch, but they weren't Hearnesque either.
Actually, Garcia and Jenkins were quite close to Hearnsesque for their weight.

The issue was who were the hardest punchers Armstrong fought, not what happened to be their KO %'s. Zivic hit hard enough to drop/KO legitimate big strong welterweights, Garcia hit hard enough to KO the top rated middleweight in the world and an otherwise great fighter in Fred Apostoli (among other legit middleweights), Jenkins hit hard enough to KO an iron chinned HOFer (Lou Ambers) who was never KO'd otherwise in a very lengthy career. Mayweather has never shown he hits hard enough to do any of those things, hence he does not rate among the hardest hitters Armstrong has fought.

[flamengo]

Another view point.... throw PBF back into the 30's... No dietry supliments, lack of superior dieting at all. Tell him to fight for pitence, tell PBF to fight who ever is thrown at him.

Let PBF be called a *****.. belittle him.. treat him with inferiority... look down on him.. persecute him and all his felllow negro family... Then ask him to respect the white man, and find his way to the top. Clean dishes, mop floors.. fight a few bouts.. win some and lose some.... then slowly gain crowd respect.

Once he is recogised, tell PBF to do exactly what the promotors tell him to.. without arguement. Having done this, reasure PBF... that post one of the greatest careers in boxing history, very little will be shown for it. For Armstrong to become so brilliant, as hee did, demands far more than PBF has ever been exposed too.

How do you think PBF would fare???

Hard to compare fighters with 80 years career distances.... Maybe this point of view is food for thought??

In todays ABC world of titles, promotions and lack of quality fighters, genuine QUALITY fighters, Armstrong would walk into any man, with the ability he had, and perform better than most.

PBF would be in trouble today also. His toughest, most intense fight would be via the hands of Armstrong.

[GPater11093]

Another view point.... throw PBF back into the 30's... No dietry supliments, lack of superior dieting at all. Tell him to fight for pitence, tell PBF to fight who ever is thrown at him.

Let PBF be called a *****.. belittle him.. treat him with inferiority... look down on him.. persecute him and all his felllow negro family... Then ask him to respect the white man, and find his way to the top. Clean dishes, mop floors.. fight a few bouts.. win some and lose some.... then slowly gain crowd respect.

Once he is recogised, tell PBF to do exactly what the promotors tell him to.. without arguement. Having done this, reasure PBF... that post one of the greatest careers in boxing history, very little will be shown for it. For Armstrong to become so brilliant, as hee did, demands far more than PBF has ever been exposed too.

How do you think PBF would fare???

Hard to compare fighters with 80 years career distances.... Maybe this point of view is food for thought??

In todays ABC world of titles, promotions and lack of quality fighters, genuine QUALITY fighters, Armstrong would walk into any man, with the ability he had, and perform better than most.

PBF would be in trouble today also. His toughest, most intense fight would be via the hands of Armstrong.


but if floyd was fighting in that time he would adjust to the times like any fighter

he lives a pampered life becuse he can and he has grown used to it

if his whole career was like what you described anyone would grow used to it

[timmers612]

Outerdrake, ahhh, what boxing comic book did you learn your stuff from anyways?