Why didn't Tyson-Witherspoon happen, and how would it go down?

[Bokaj]

While I'm not in any way shape or form suggesting that Tyson ducked Witherspoon, Tim was still a contender during a large part of Tyson's reign and had been for most of the 80's. So it seems reasonable that a fight between the two was at least discussed at some point.

Do anyone know anything about this? And what do you think would have happened if they'd faced off sometime 86-88? Could Witherspoon have caused Tyson any problems?

[mr. magoo]

Witherspoon had been basically black balled from the heavyweight championship picture by both Don King and all the major sanctioning bodies. His style was unpopular with the public, he had tested positive for drugs on more than one occasion, he was not a big seller, and both Don and Carl King found him as being a pain in the ass to do business with. History's answer to the abscence of a Tyson - Witherspoon match, would be that Spoon lost to James Smith, then Smith lost to Tyson. Convienient enough explanation, and one that the King family wanted the fans to believe.......

[TBooze]

...

[Bokaj]

Tim at the point when Tyson was champion was by all intents and purposes done as a serious contender. He was taking lotsa time off between fights, getting fat, and generally living the good life from the monies he made in the early 80's.


He was in The Ring's top five 1986-1988. That should be enough to qualify him as a live contender.

If memory serves me right, he was also on the outs with Don King which would leave it hard for any 80's fighter to advance very far.

That probably had more to do with it.

[TBooze]

History's answer to the abscence of a Tyson - Witherspoon match, would be that Spoon lost to James Smith, then Smith lost to Tyson. Convienient enough explanation, and one that the King family wanted the fans to believe.......

Being true and all.....

Tim destroyed Tim, he made such a song and dance about money owed from the Bruno fight, and then threw his title away be agreeing to late sub Smith and not respecting a man he easily enough outpointed 18 months previous.

He made it far too easy for DKP to ignore him.

[Bokaj]

He was actually in The Ring's top five 1983-1990. Just goes to show how career threatening it was to cross King back then.

[TBooze]

He was actually in The Ring's top five 1983-1990. Just goes to show how career threatening it was to cross King back then.


Typical though that Whitherspoon blames everyone but himself.

Tim was arguably the most talented Heavyweight of the last 30 years, but decided to waste that talent on drugs and lack of training. They were 80% of his problems, King was a very distant third IMO.

[janitor]

Tim was arguably the most talented Heavyweight of the last 30 years,

That is a bold statment.

Would you care to explain?

[TBooze]

That is a bold statment.

Would you care to explain?

Whitherspoon, like Tyson and to a point Lewis, had that je ne sais quoi quality that makes you stand out.

If you add to this, Witherspoon's massive drug problem, and his frequent reluctance to train and be in condition for his fights, he was still considered by many, behind only Tyson, Holmes, Lewis, Holyfield, perhaps Bowe and adding the 70s to his career, Foreman.

That is how much potential Whitherspoon had and indeed wasted.

[p.Townend]

I think it was partly due to Witherspoon and King falling out.Witherspoon losing in a round to Smith certainly didnt help Tim`s case.If hed got in shape and really wanted it enough he could have given Tyson some trouble,but in the late 80s Tyson would have been too much for him and id go with a Tyson stoppage around 9.

[Boilermaker]

There are so many conspiracy type theories on this site. The reason this fight didnt happen is very simple really. James Bonecrusher Smith knocked Tim Witherspoon out in about 1 round. It set up a promoters dream fight with Tyson that didnt really live up to expectations. It was possible for Tim to get a fight after this, and he probably was the only half challenge left for Tyson to clean out, but given that knock out loss, it was hardly a block buster challenge. I am sure the factors mentioned may have contributed, but you cant claim to be hard done by when you lose your title by first round knock out.

[CottoDaBodykill]

if the talented tim showed up the one with his piston jab and cork screw right hand and all his talents that he showed when he did show up he'd of gave tyson one of his hardest fights ... witherspoon had all the tools to beat tyson .. now getting him of the dope and off the in and out burgers are another thing ...

it'd just depend on which tim showed

[Holmes' Jab]

If a limited guy like Tucker could take Tyson the distance, a talented boxer such as Witherspoon at his best would not be an easy assignment at all for Tyson. You'd be moreso talking early 80's Witherspoon, though not really the version who was fighting during Tyson's first reign.

[CottoDaBodykill]

not only is witherspoon a talented boxer he could also hit! he had a ******* jack shot with his right hand

[Bo Bo Olson]

Tim at the point when Tyson was champion was by all intents and purposes done as a serious contender. He was taking lotsa time off between fights, getting fat, and generally living the good life from the monies he made in the early 80's.

If memory serves me right, he was also on the outs with Don King which would leave it hard for any 80's fighter to advance very far.


Witherspoon was back in the Gehtto with only $50,000 a year after he was no longer Champ...so he was not living the good life. King told him he had expenses.

[Bo Bo Olson]

If a limited guy like Tucker could take Tyson the distance, a talented boxer such as Witherspoon at his best would not be an easy assignment at all for Tyson. You'd be moreso talking early 80's Witherspoon, though not really the version who was fighting during Tyson's first reign.

Tucker was not considered limited at the time of the fight.
He was not even a massive underdog.

[sauhund II]

If a limited guy like Tucker could take Tyson the distance, a talented boxer such as Witherspoon at his best would not be an easy assignment at all for Tyson. You'd be moreso talking early 80's Witherspoon, though not really the version who was fighting during Tyson's first reign.
LOL, a limited guy like Tua took Lewis the distance, a limited guy like the Mohawk took lewis the distance, a limited guy like Mercer took Lewis the distance and so on and on...would you like me go any further and provide Holmes limited opposition he went the distance with ? Ali maybe ?

Fact : the Tucker fight was almost a shut out which by any means except Planet Zog is as convincing as it gets. As someone already mentioned, Tucker was not thought as a push over, was not a terrible underdog and had the tools which all those Tyson career experts claim to "trouble" him, size, height, jab and chin. The scores clearly proved so called experts wrong.

As far as Witherspoon is concerned, Tyson was not with King at that time and the fight could have been made but there were bigger fish aka more $$$ to fry. Witherspoon was considered another could have would have but just was unable to put it all together, his convinient excuse was always King but where a will is a way and Spoon never had much will.

While Tim had good fundamentals and pop but he lacked speed and had a rather methodical approach. He would have serious trouble with Mikes speed and would have tried to fight him instead to box and both plays right into Tyson hands. He also could be outhustled as evidenced years later when he was staging a comeback and while clearly declined he should not have lost to career stepping stone Bigfoot Martin on the USA network.

[TBooze]

Tucker was not considered limited at the time of the fight.
He was not even a massive underdog.

Tucker was considered a big underdog, Tyson was at best 1/10.......

[Sonny Carson]

LOL, a limited guy like Tua took Lewis the distance, a limited guy like the Mohawk took lewis the distance, a limited guy like Mercer took Lewis the distance and so on and on...would you like me go any further and provide Holmes limited opposition he went the distance with ? Ali maybe ?

Fact : the Tucker fight was almost a shut out which by any means except Planet Zog is as convincing as it gets. As someone already mentioned, Tucker was not thought as a push over, was not a terrible underdog and had the tools which all those Tyson career experts claim to "trouble" him, size, height, jab and chin. The scores clearly proved so called experts wrong.

As far as Witherspoon is concerned, Tyson was not with King at that time and the fight could have been made but there were bigger fish aka more $$$ to fry. Witherspoon was considered another could have would have but just was unable to put it all together, his convinient excuse was always King but where a will is a way and Spoon never had much will.

While Tim had good fundamentals and pop but he lacked speed and had a rather methodical approach. He would have serious trouble with Mikes speed and would have tried to fight him instead to box and both plays right into Tyson hands. He also could be outhustled as evidenced years later when he was staging a comeback and while clearly declined he should not have lost to career stepping stone Bigfoot Martin on the USA network.
Witherspoon in his prime had good hand and foot speed. He gave Holmes problems because of it. I think your judgind the older fatter Witherspoon.

[Mendoza]

Tim at the point when Tyson was champion was by all intents and purposes done as a serious contender. He was taking lotsa time off between fights, getting fat, and generally living the good life from the monies he made in the early 80's.

If memory serves me right, he was also on the outs with Don King which would leave it hard for any 80's fighter to advance very far.

Not so. I saw Witherspoon in 1987 vs some undefeated fighter, and he looked sharp as a tack. Spoon was not always out of shape while Tyson was champion.

Had Don king dared to risk a match, I betcha 'Spoon would have showed up in shape.

[TBooze]

Not so. I saw Witherspoon in 1987 vs some undefeated fighter, and he looked sharp as a tack. Spoon was not always out of shape while Tyson was champion.

Had Don king dared to risk a match, I betcha 'Spoon would have showed up in shape.

I do not know, I saw him against Villegas in February 88, and he looked awful labouring to a late stoppage, and he looked in fair shape for Tim.....

[Mendoza]

I do not know, I saw him against Villegas in February 88, and he looked awful labouring to a late stoppage, and he looked in fair shape for Tim.....

The fight I speak of wa the Mike Williams fight. Williams was undefeated. Witherpsoon looked great at 217 pounds. Watch it sometime, you'll be impressed.

[JohnThomas1]

Tyson would have beaten Witherspoon, probably by stoppage. He took out other durable top of the line heavies from the same era quite easily.

Witherspoon would have been more dangerous probably, with his subtle skill, excellent power and willingness to throw a sneaky potshot here and there. I say probably because there's also a chance Witherspoon might clam up a bit like some others when confronted with the Tyson aura and fury.

[Stonehands89]

Tyson would have beaten Witherspoon, probably by stoppage. He took out other durable top of the line heavies from the same era quite easily.

Witherspoon would have been more dangerous probably, with his subtle skill, excellent power and willingness to throw a sneaky potshot here and there. I say probably because there's also a chance Witherspoon might clam up a bit like some others when confronted with the Tyson aura and fury.
Right. Witherspoon was not enough "above and beyond" the rest of the 80s pack to pose a real threat to prime Tyson.

[Bokaj]

Tyson would have beaten Witherspoon, probably by stoppage. He took out other durable top of the line heavies from the same era quite easily.

Witherspoon would have been more dangerous probably, with his subtle skill, excellent power and willingness to throw a sneaky potshot here and there. I say probably because there's also a chance Witherspoon might clam up a bit like some others when confronted with the Tyson aura and fury.

By the way, how do you reckon Super Greg would have done against Tyson had he stayed fit and focussed? If he had realized his potential, in short.

[DudeGuyMan]

Let's change it up: What if Tyson-Witherspoon happens around 1996? Tyson holds the WBC and WBA belts after slapping down Bruno & Seldon, but hasn't lost to Holyfield yet. Witherspoon is riding relatively high coming off HBO wins over Al Cole & Jorge Gonzalez, but hasn't lost to Mercer yet.

[Holmes' Jab]

LOL, a limited guy like Tua took Lewis the distance, a limited guy like the Mohawk took lewis the distance, a limited guy like Mercer took Lewis the distance and so on and on...would you like me go any further and provide Holmes limited opposition he went the distance with ? Ali maybe ?



Points taken- near enough every fighter has had a fight whereby a supposedly lesser fighter lasted to the final bell against them at least once or a few times. All I was saying was Witherspoon could've lasted till the final bell as opposed to the KO1/early KO predictions some Tyson nuthuggers might give. He's definitely a better fighter than alot Tyson faced. At his best he'd prove a tricky assignment for a fair few.

[DudeGuyMan]

I think Witherspoon's a threat in 96. Not the favorite or anything, but certainly more dangerous than anyone Tyson successfully defeated in that period of his career. I admit that isn't saying much when we're comparing him to an openly terrified Bruno and a dive-taking Seldon, but still...

[JohnThomas1]

By the way, how do you reckon Super Greg would have done against Tyson had he stayed fit and focussed? If he had realized his potential, in short.

He would have had to realise his absolute potential to have any chance whatsoever vs peak Tyson. He was so far from realising it it's hard to imagine what he could have been. We know how good Tyson was however. His combination of speed and power would have troubled Tyson but his defense reliance on reflex more than sound technical skill would have been trouble.

[godking]

Not so. I saw Witherspoon in 1987 vs some undefeated fighter, and he looked sharp as a tack. Spoon was not always out of shape while Tyson was champion.

Had Don king dared to risk a match, I betcha 'Spoon would have showed up in shape.More like bad blood between King and Witherspoon rather then King being afraid to put Tyson in against.

Witherspoon was not above the level of other guys Tyson fought and beat in that period.

There was no reason for team Tyson to fear Witherspoon.

[mr. magoo]

There was no reason for team Tyson to fear Witherspoon.

Yet rumors around 1989/1990 said that they were.

[TBooze]

He would have had to realise his absolute potential to have any chance whatsoever vs peak Tyson. He was so far from realising it it's hard to imagine what he could have been. We know how good Tyson was however. His combination of speed and power would have troubled Tyson but his defense reliance on reflex more than sound technical skill would have been trouble.


I know it sounds silly, I am probably way off the mark, but I think even in 87/88 Page would of given Tyson hell, even dare I say it, had Tyson's number.

For whatever reason, Page was seemingly not intimidated by Mike, whether that was decking him in public sparring, or busting him wide open.

I know it is just sparring; and perhaps a ridiculous hunch (after all Brewster sparked Lennox in sparring, but if that match happened, I know who I would have the mortgage on), but I take Page if I could get 25-1 or better.

[TBooze]

Yet rumors around 1989/1990 said that they were.

I think Tyson always figured he would beat Whitherspoon in 86-90, it was just Tim could of made it a Terrible;) fight, and team Tyson did not want a BonecrusherII.

Whitherspoon going though the courts with the row with DKP, plus the second Bonecrusher fight meant Tyson always had a reason for the fight not to happen.

[JohnThomas1]

I know it sounds silly, I am probably way off the mark, but I think even in 87/88 Page would of given Tyson hell, even dare I say it, had Tyson's number.

For whatever reason, Page was seemingly not intimidated by Mike, whether that was decking him in public sparring, or busting him wide open.

I know it is just sparring; and perhaps a ridiculous hunch (after all Brewster sparked Lennox in sparring, but if that match happened, I know who I would have the mortgage on), but I take Page if I could get 25-1 or better.

I think the KD in sparring was before the Douglas fight tho. I believe this was a pretty lame Tyson. LOVE the Page praise tho :D

[MRBILL]

Tyson and Spoon would've fought in '87 had Spoon not been KO'd By Bonecrusher Smith in late '86........ After Spoon got iced in 1986, Spoon's career took a big shit in the toilet until his 1991 comeback win against Carl Williams put him back on the map..... Tim Witherspoon really dicked off some prime years by being indecisive with boxing in 1987 thru 1990...... At that time, Spoon was fighting with no purpose or direction..... And by 1992, Mike Tyson was on his way to the cooler for three years...... Nuff said....

MR.BILL

[MAG1965]

I always thought Don King ducked Witherspoon with Mike. Remember when Bonecrusher was told by Carl King to jump on Witherspoon in Dec. of 1986? There was a tournament going on with HBO. Whoever won that fight would fight Mike on March 7, 1987.. Well Bonecrusher won the fight by first round knockout (after losing to Tim earlier in his career), so Bonecrusher fought Mike and lost. But I always thought Tim could have beaten Mike. He had all the tools to do it. My thinking is that Witherspoon would have stopped Mike in 10 back in 1987. Would have been an upset.

[janitor]

There was no reason for team Tyson to fear Witherspoon.

There is oten verry little sound logic to who a fighter or his team fears and their predictions of who the winners and loosers will be often look prety silly in hindsight.

Joe Louis said that the only man his team genuinely wanted no part of was Melio Bettina. Wtf!

Rocky Marciano predicted that the fighter to lift the title from him would be Charlie Powel who never amounted to much in the end.

By the same token both Bob Fitzsimmons and Joe Frazier sleepwalked into the title fights with the men who relieved them of their titles and proved to be the one man they could never beat.

So you just never know what is going through the mind of a fighter or his managers.

[Bummy Davis]

Tim Witherspoon could have been a good contender but he had zero drive by the time he would have fought Tyson, he would have been another ko victum. Even in his prime Witherspoon was no world beater, his victory over Robot Bruno was agood one by as soon as Tim threw the overhand right Bruno caught it and had no defensive answer(it was evident Bruno learned little from the Bonecrusher fight(stiff) not to say Bruno did nit have power or heart. Witherspoon was an underacheviever who smoked weed constantly and grow Mans Bobs for a lot of fights( he made Max Baer look like an overacheiver) anyway at his Best and In condition he gets KO'd by a In Shape Tyson....(when Tyson was not focused and out of conditon a very Best Witherspoon may have been able to duplicate what Buster did that night but for the most part he gets KO'd.......The 80's had talent but other than Holmes no one really had the dedication or Drive for a long period...Page,Dokes,ThOMAS MAY have been able to beat Holmes but slacked of on the training and could not be consistant for a long duration

[Bigcat]

Don KIng described Tim as being like a needle in a haystack.. Hard to find !!!!

This was due to a legal battle which Tim ended up winning , started by Tims losing (Oddly) to Smith by KO.. Don made Tim the man on the outside of a very busy division going through the HBO unification series.. Tim losing to Smith made him an outcast player and Tyson the front runner... BUT if losing to a partial holder pushed him out of the picture .. why wasn't Pinklon ruled out of the series after Berbick beat him? Mike beat Trevor and then Smith.. just prior to meeting Mike , Berbick had won against WBC holder Thomas, then immediately after beating Smith, Pink was re introduced into the series as a Tyson WBC & WBA defence.. Why wasn't Tim introduced even having beaten a prelim loser in Bruno..? Odd stuff..

[MAG1965]

stylistically Witherspoon would have been hard for Tyson to beat. Maybe had Mike swarmed him like Bonecrusher did in Dec. 1986, but if Tim were ready Mike would have had a really hard time. Tim was a little better than Tubbs and Thomas and Bonecrusher. His style was to lean and use his size, and he was pretty big for heavyweights then and could punch hard. I just think he would have been able to take what Mike gave him and lean on him and stop him late. I always thought this .Mike is lucky he did not fight Tim. And I am not really a Witherspoon fan. I think he lacked discipline, but he was good.

[Cachibatches]

Tim would show up on Tuesday night fights, beat a Andrs Ecklund or Jeff Simms, challenge everyone and then disappear for a year and a half while he, as everyone pointed out, ate burgers and did coke.

Not a great receipe for success.

[Arka]

LOL, a limited guy like Tua took Lewis the distance, a limited guy like the Mohawk took lewis the distance, a limited guy like Mercer took Lewis the distance and so on and on...would you like me go any further and provide Holmes limited opposition he went the distance with ? Ali maybe ?

Fact : the Tucker fight was almost a shut out which by any means except Planet Zog is as convincing as it gets. As someone already mentioned, Tucker was not thought as a push over, was not a terrible underdog and had the tools which all those Tyson career experts claim to "trouble" him, size, height, jab and chin. The scores clearly proved so called experts wrong.



Don't forget a limited guy like Tony Tucker took Lewis the distance too! :good

[Arka]

I always thought Don King ducked Witherspoon with Mike. Remember when Bonecrusher was told by Carl King to jump on Witherspoon in Dec. of 1986? There was a tournament going on with HBO. Whoever won that fight would fight Mike on March 7, 1987.. Well Bonecrusher won the fight by first round knockout (after losing to Tim earlier in his career), so Bonecrusher fought Mike and lost. But I always thought Tim could have beaten Mike. He had all the tools to do it. My thinking is that Witherspoon would have stopped Mike in 10 back in 1987. Would have been an upset.

Don King wasn't part of Tyson's management until 1989 was he?
Leaving aside the issue of consistency,Witherspoon would have been great with a little more explosiveness and timing in his punches.

[Chris Warren]

Apparently you guys watched a different Tyson then I watched. Tyson was 23 when Buster Douglas knocked him out so he was in his prime. Don't give me any of this Tyson fanboy crap how he was out of shape or past his best at 23. Is Tyson this special case. no other so called top heavyweight was past his prime at 23. Don't give me how great Tony Tucker was either, Tony Tucker was limited, no to mention he fought that whole fight wtih a broken hand.

Tyson looked impressive when he fought guys who got in the ring and didn't fight back. Even a 3rd Tier fighter like Jame Tillis looked impressive against a prime Mike Tyson and you could even say he won that fight. Tyson's speed was also based on him fighting a guy who wasn't fighting back. Where was this so called speed when Douglas knocked him out? Did he lose all of his speed at the age of 23. Tyson's speed just like his power get overrated by most people like you. Most people who got in the ring with Tyson and Tommy Morrison will tell you flat out Morrison was the harder puncher. Infact I can't name one fighter who Tyson fought who was good that said Tyson punched hard at all.

Tim Witherspoon on the other hand gets overrated by his knock out over Aunder Aukland or whatever that guy name is. Even so if Witherspoon came to fight in shape and landed a good punch early Tyson would freeze up because he knew he was in with a fighter not afraid of him. If that would of happened Witherspoon would knock Tyson out in 5 rounds.

[ironchamp]

Apparently you guys watched a different Tyson then I watched. Tyson was 23 when Buster Douglas knocked him out so he was in his prime. Don't give me any of this Tyson fanboy crap how he was out of shape or past his best at 23. Is Tyson this special case. no other so called top heavyweight was past his prime at 23. Don't give me how great Tony Tucker was either, Tony Tucker was limited, no to mention he fought that whole fight wtih a broken hand.

Tyson looked impressive when he fought guys who got in the ring and didn't fight back. Even a 3rd Tier fighter like Jame Tillis looked impressive against a prime Mike Tyson and you could even say he won that fight. Tyson's speed was also based on him fighting a guy who wasn't fighting back. Where was this so called speed when Douglas knocked him out? Did he lose all of his speed at the age of 23. Tyson's speed just like his power get overrated by most people like you. Most people who got in the ring with Tyson and Tommy Morrison will tell you flat out Morrison was the harder puncher. Infact I can't name one fighter who Tyson fought who was good that said Tyson punched hard at all.

Tim Witherspoon on the other hand gets overrated by his knock out over Aunder Aukland or whatever that guy name is. Even so if Witherspoon came to fight in shape and landed a good punch early Tyson would freeze up because he knew he was in with a fighter not afraid of him. If that would of happened Witherspoon would knock Tyson out in 5 rounds.


Tyson never lost his speed during the Douglas fights but a lack of training means that your timing is off.

For you to undermine Tyson's speed and power on the basis that his opponents would freeze up making Tyson appear faster and stronger than he really is says alot about your motives.

Name a Heavyweight at the age of 19 that would have looked better against Tillis than Tyson did.

Ruddock showed up against Tyson and landed harder punches on Tyson than Witherspoon could have ever landed yet Tyson beat him twice. It didnt matter if you were afraid of him.

Berbick, Pinklon Thomas, Biggs, Tucker, Tubbs, Ruddock, Botha, etc were not afraid.

The issue is even if a fighter was afraid- how is that Tyson's problem? Why is it somehow counted against him?


The problem with these Anti-Tyson posts is that the rhetoric is reflective of a boxing fan that wants to differentiate himself from the average fan by criticizing the mainstream aspect of boxing.

[SuzieQ49]

Let me simplify this for everyone. Witherspoon was another Tubbs and Thomas. What Tyson did to Thomas and Tubbs he would do to Witherspoon. Plain and Simple. End of Discussion.

[SuzieQ49]

Right. Witherspoon was not enough "above and beyond" the rest of the 80s pack to pose a real threat to prime Tyson.


Total agreement. Certain posters here like Mendoza try to put Witherspoon on this pedastool like he was "better" than Pinklon Thomas or Tony Tubbs when in fact he was not. Thomas beat him easier than Holmes did, and Tubbs gave him a near even fight. Even Bruno gave him absolute hell for 11 rounds, and Bonecrusher Smith caught him cold early with the right hand and flattned him in one. Trevor Berbick beat alot of good fighters tyson destroyed him, Tucker was talented undefeated giant who tyson nearly shutout, was witherspoon really better than these guys? I dont think he proved himself better. Just because he gave holmes a dead even scrap in 1983? Had holmes had the guts to give page, thomas, tubbs shots in 1984 I bet they give Larry dead even fights or maybe even beat him.

[SuzieQ49]

final bell as opposed to the KO1/early KO predictions some Tyson nuthuggers might give. He's definitely a better fighter than alot Tyson faced.

how is it nuthugging? lets face it, tyson didnt just beat most of the 80s best, HE DOMINATED them so badly there was no question of supremacy...its going to take a heck of a big leap in class/talent from those bunch if you want to convince me he has a chance against tyson, and witherspoon was not a big leap above those guys. Spoon wasnt more talented than Tony Tubbs, Tubbs gave him a near even fight, Spoon wasnt better than Pinklon Thomas, in fact Thomas beat a Prime Spoon, Bonecrusher got shutout by spoon first time but in the rematch caught him with a right hand early on and literally destroyed him in 1, Witherspoon barely escaped frank bruno, Trevor Berbick was a very accomplished fighter more so than witherspoon, and Tony Tucker was arguebably a tougher task head to head than spoon. . While Tim was a very good fighter, I dont think he was a step above these guys. Witherspoon was just another Thomas, Tubbs, Page, Berbick, Tucker. So in essence, he was another Tyson early Kayo Victim.

[SuzieQ49]

Yet rumors around 1989/1990 said that they were.

Yes im sure team Tyson feared a man who had developed man boobs, and who was losing to fighters mike was easily destroying.

[SuzieQ49]

My thinking is that Witherspoon would have stopped Mike in 10 back in 1987. Would have been an upset.

You guys are seriousely overrating Spoon. Now I rate Spoon in my top 30 heavyweights of all time, and give him his due, but realistically he would end up just like Berbick Thomas Tubbs and Tucker did. For those saying Witherspoon could take tysons shots, thats bullshit. I watched Bonecrusher Smith catch spoon with a right hand early on, and spoon was never the same after getting floored 3 times...now tyson was 10x the puncher bonecrusher was. There is no such thing as a good chin against tyson, tyson has the blend of speed power and combinations to knockout ANYONE. Thomas, Tubbs, Holmes, Spinks these guys all never been close to being stopped before and tyson knocked them all out COLD. I don't think spoon's turtle shell defense matches up well against Mike especially if spoon is forced to fight on his back foot. Witherspoon is going to end up brawling with mike, and tyson will flatten him. Do we not forget just how devastating Mike was in the late 1980s?

[zadfrak]

Witherspoon was a hot and colod fighter and a cold version has zero chance. The hot versions of Witherspoon really didn't have the ko results against top notch opposition. Always a decision. I think the elite fighters can solve that style and at least stay in there. But that cross armed defense is open to left hooks & I see Tyson getting thru real early and getting the stoppage.

[lefthook31]

No way Witherspoon beats Tyson in the 80's. He had a decent jab and pretty much only threw an overhand right, not enough to hang with a prime Tyson. I remember him catching Bruno late against the ropes and stopping him. That was probably his biggest win, although anyone who made into the later round with Bruno had a chance.
Contract problems with King and being out of the Acefield tournament prevented Spoon from being in the mix for a shot at the undisputed title.

[Bokaj]

How about Dokes-Tyson? Anyone know why that fight didn't happen, and do you think Dokes could have troubled Tyson any or would it just have been another Thomas, Tubbs etc?

[lefthook31]

How about Dokes-Tyson? Anyone know why that fight didn't happen, and do you think Dokes could have troubled Tyson any or would it just have been another Thomas, Tubbs etc?
Evander Holyfield at the time was really the only threat to Tyson, and in my opinion at that time in his career he was more apt to brawl than use his smarts like he did later in his career. I dont see anyone in that group including Holyfield, beating a prime Tyson.

[mr. magoo]

Yes im sure team Tyson feared a man who had developed man boobs, and who was losing to fighters mike was easily destroying.

For all your knowledge in other areas, I'm not convinced that you are well versed on the subject of 1980's fighters.

[SuzieQ49]

For all your knowledge in other areas, I'm not convinced that you are well versed on the subject of 1980's fighters.


I mean, every single thing I said above is true. Witherspoon WAS losing to fighters mike tyson was destroying. Spoon was constantly showing up overweight for fights by 1987-88. What was there to fear? I have read books, autobiographies on 1980s heavyweights...please provide me one concrete peice of evidence that Team Tyson wanted no part of Spoon.

[lefthook31]

King, with exception to Evander Holyfield who was a cruiser at that time, controlled the entire heavyweight division. If a fighter wanted to play by Kings rules, they had a chance to fight Tyson, thus the reason for the tournament. Witherspoon was no different than any of the other fighters Tyson was dispacthing. Just a solid fighter who held the title for a brief period, but no dynamo.

[lefthook31]

For all your knowledge in other areas, I'm not convinced that you are well versed on the subject of 1980's fighters.
Well why dont your enlighten us with your vast knowledage of 80's heavyweights and why Team Tyson avoided such a dangerous fighter like Witherspoon. He was beaten by fighters that Tyson destroyed. Your arrogance in assuming your right on everything is really annoying.

[mr. magoo]

I mean, every single thing I said above is true. Witherspoon WAS losing to fighters mike tyson was destroying. Spoon was constantly showing up overweight for fights by 1987-88. What was there to fear? I have read books, autobiographies on 1980s heavyweights...please provide me one concrete peice of evidence that Team Tyson wanted no part of Spoon.


First of all, you have to look at what I said carefully. It wasn't TYSON personally, who may have been afraid of Witherspoon. But, commentary that I listened to while watchin multiple boxing matches back in the late 80's and early 90's suggested that Tyson's CAMP was reluctant to place him in the same ring. Witherspoon was a man with a proven chin, proven guts, power, size, lengthy reach even for 6'3". His biggest asset however, was probably his style. Holmes, Tubbs, Page and a myriad of other fighters a fuck of a time trying to figure him out. Look at his stance sometime and watch. He threw these overhand rights that came out of no where that his people termed as " the can opener. " His defense was well better than average and he knew the value of working the body as well, a rare trait for modern heavyweights.

Now, some of the things that you said are true, however Witherspoon's career is one that can't be summed up by looking at boxrec results. For example, if you look at his fight with James Smith, the result is a first round TKO. Do you realize how much talk there was about that fight being a fix? I have posted numerous times Witherspoon's conversation with Sean O'Grady and how he publicly stated that he was black mailed to throw that match, or King would see to it that his post fight urinalysis would come back positive for drugs. Fighters don't just say that they threw a match, simply to come up with an excuse for losing a bout. Being involved in a fixed fight is far more detrimental to a man's reputation than losing in the ring, and every man who's ever boxed knows this. In addition, standing up to the King family and publicly slandering them is risky stunt to pull. The guy's wife could have gone out to get the mail one day and found Tim's head in the post box.

As for the Thomas loss, I have no explanation, as I have never seen the fight. However I have been told that Tim showed up with his head basically up his ass for that match, yet still fought him to a majority decision loss. It was also one of the best performances of Thomas's career, who would later deteriorate from the effects of heroine use by the time he met Berbick and Tyson.....

[lefthook31]

First of all, you have to look at what I said carefully. It wasn't TYSON personally, who may have been afraid of Witherspoon. But, commentary that I listened to while watchin multiple boxing matches back in the late 80's and early 90's suggested that Tyson's CAMP was reluctant to place him in the same ring. Witherspoon was a man with a proven chin, proven guts, power, size, lengthy reach even for 6'3". His biggest asset however, was probably his style. Holmes, Tubbs, Page and a myriad of other fighters a fuck of a time trying to figure him out. Look at his stance sometime and watch. He threw these overhand rights that came out of no where that his people termed as " the can opener. " His defense was well better than average and he knew the value of working the body as well, a rare trait for modern heavyweights.

Now, some of the things that you said are true, however Witherspoon's career is one that can't be summed up by looking at boxrec results. For example, if you look at his fight with James Smith, the result is a first round TKO. Do you realize how much talk there was about that fight being a fix? I have posted numerous times Witherspoon's conversation with Sean O'Grady and how he publicly stated that he was black mailed to throw that match, or King would see to it that his post fight urinalysis would come back positive for drugs. Fighters don't just say that they threw a match, simply to come up with an excuse for losing a bout. Being involved in a fixed fight is far more detrimental to a man's reputation than losing in the ring, and every man who's ever boxed knows this. In addition, standing up to the King family and publicly slandering them is risky stunt to pull. The guy's wife could have gone out to get the mail one day and found Tim's head in the post box.

As for the Thomas loss, I have no explanation, as I have never seen the fight. However I have been told that Tim showed up with his head basically up his ass for that match, yet still fought him to a majority decision loss. It was also one of the best performances of Thomas's career, who would later deteriorate from the effects of heroine use by the time he met Berbick and Tyson.....
Wow this is quite a story. All the behind the scenes tidbits have no relevance when discussing Lennox Lewis or a Foreman comeback, but when discussing a fighter you dislike, waking up on the wrong side of the bed, has tremendous significance in the outcome of a fight.:huh

[mr. magoo]

Wow this is quite a story. All the behind the scenes tidbits have no relevance when discussing Lennox Lewis or a Foreman comeback, but when discussing a fighter you dislike, waking up on the wrong side of the bed, has tremendous significance in the outcome of a fight.:huh


You do nothing but stalk posters who prove your ineptitude.

[lefthook31]

You do nothing but stalk posters who prove your ineptitude.
No man, keep it real, dont make shit up and use significant factoids only when it suits your arguement. Your proving nothing to anyone but yourself if you believe that to be the case.

[mr. magoo]

No man, keep it real, dont make shit up and use significant factoids only when it suits your arguement. Your proving nothing to anyone but yourself if you believe that to be the case.

I am confident in my position and that my standpoints are well backed up in every discussion that I have ever had on this board. The fact that you feel the need to follow people around like a child who can't take no for an answer is telling of your convictions.

[Titan1]

How about Dokes-Tyson? Anyone know why that fight didn't happen, and do you think Dokes could have troubled Tyson any or would it just have been another Thomas, Tubbs etc?

Tyson would've put Dokes out of his misery in about four or five rounds at the time.Dokes was not the same fighter of his youth when Tyson ascended to the throne, and was never a strong hitter to begin with.

[brownpimp88]

First of all, weren't his losses to Larry Holmes and Pinklon Thomas very close decisions? Isn't it arguable that his fight with bonecrusher was 'fixed'. I've heard before he was paid to take a dive.

[DrMo]

I think this wouldve been one of the great heavyweight fights of the eighties if it had happened in 86

Tyson wins in war that lasts 8 or 9 rounds & Spoon has a few moments after surviving the initial onslaught

[frankenfrank]

IDK if Witherspoon's loss 2 Smith was a dive or not and don't have a solid opinion on it , however i did score Spoon vs Thomas 120-118 in favor of Spoon , and convinced about my scoring in this case , it was clear .
i do think that Witherspoon , Dokes & Page were intentionally avoided by Tyson's camp , while Thomas , Dokes , Page & Coetzee , as well as a Norton , Witherspoon & Williams rematches were intentionally avoided by Holmes . Tyson's supporters has d better arguments as 2 y Tyson did not avoid them , while Holmes legacy is on par with Ali's : it slightly surpasses Ali's in terms of careful management , equates it in terms of board of judges' favorism , and only slightly behind it in terms of inside d ring foul play .

[Legend X]

Whitherspoon, like Tyson and to a point Lewis, had that je ne sais quoi quality that makes you stand out.

If you add to this, Witherspoon's massive drug problem, and his frequent reluctance to train and be in condition for his fights, he was still considered by many, behind only Tyson, Holmes, Lewis, Holyfield, perhaps Bowe and adding the 70s to his career, Foreman.

That is how much potential Whitherspoon had and indeed wasted.


As far as I remember, there's never been any news that Witherspoon had a "massive drug problem".
He tested positive for marijuana once.

I've never seen any report that he had a problem with cocaine or heroin, ever arrested on drug-related charges, ever mentioned a drug problem, ever went to rehab.

Dokes, Thomas, Tubbs, Tucker, B.Cooper, T.Biggs - yes, they had drugs problems.
But as far as I've heard, Witherspoon never did.

[Bummy Davis]

Tyson KO

[TBooze]

As far as I remember, there's never been any news that Witherspoon had a "massive drug problem".
He tested positive for marijuana once.

I've never seen any report that he had a problem with cocaine or heroin, ever arrested on drug-related charges, ever mentioned a drug problem, ever went to rehab.

Dokes, Thomas, Tubbs, Tucker, B.Cooper, T.Biggs - yes, they had drugs problems.
But as far as I've heard, Witherspoon never did.

Witherspoon was mandated to give Tubbs rematch for failing a drugs test following their initial bout. Of course Tubbs pulled out and Smith got the fight instead.