Hoya or Mayweather - Who Ranks Higher?

[Russell]

As of now? Why?

Who's accomplished more?

Can Mayweather pull ahead of DLH?

[asero]

DLH...they are p4p champ for 3 years but DLH just have too much impact and is very instrumental in the growth of the sport...

[DINAMITA]

Mayweather clearly IMO.

Similar achievements but greater skillset, better h2h, undefeated record.

[sweet_scientist]

Mayweather clearly IMO.

Similar achievements but greater skillset, better h2h, undefeated record.

Who on Mayweather's resume is as good as a prime Tito, prime Quartey, slightly past prime but roiding Mosley, past prime Whitaker, all of whom DLH arguably beat?

Also, do you think it's even remotely possible DLH arguably loses to Jose Luis Castillo?

[Sweet Pea]

Mayweather. Just a better fighter IMO.

[sweet_scientist]

Mayweather. Just a better fighter IMO.

Out of interest, how do you think DLH does against Floyd's level of competition?

I don't see ANYTHING for DLH to worry about at all. He'd be undefeated, uncontroversially so, and with a higher knockout percentage.

[Dempsey1238]

Done forget Chavez Snr, Past his prime, but a good win non the less.

[Sweet Pea]

Out of interest, how do you think DLH does against Floyd's level of competition?

I don't see ANYTHING for DLH to worry about at all. He'd be undefeated, uncontroversially so, and with a higher knockout percentage.True, but he's also the bigger fighter than the natural 130 pound Floyd, who was better at that weight than DLH was at any weight he fought at IMO. Oscar was better at WW though, and the higher weights in general.

[DINAMITA]

Who on Mayweather's resume is as good as a prime Tito, prime Quartey, slightly past prime but roiding Mosley, past prime Whitaker, all of whom DLH arguably beat?

Also, do you think it's even remotely possible DLH arguably loses to Jose Luis Castillo?

I agree that De La Hoya's resume is better, but this is one of the very rare occasions where I would say the fighter with the inferior resume is the superior fighter in all-time pound-for-pound terms. This doesn't happen a lot with me as I believe resume is always the most important factor, but it is not invariably the sole factor to consider.

OK, he should've dropped the decision to Castillo in their 1st fight, but was Castillo really a vastly inferior fighter p4p to the Quartey that gave Oscar so much trouble? I don't think he was.

[heidegger]

Oscars fame was always bigger than his ability. For Floyd the opposste is true. I think Floyd is actually underrated. Not accross the board, as he has a lot of fans who naturally over-hype him, but by the experts who reject his chances against other historical greats. The consensus these days in the intelligentsia seems to be that Floyd is a poor mans Sweet Pea.

[sweet_scientist]

True, but he's also the bigger fighter than the natural 130 pound Floyd, who was better at that weight than DLH was at any weight he fought at IMO. Oscar was better at WW though, and the higher weights in general.

I don't see Floyd being better at 130 than Oscar was at 135 personally. He is naturally smaller though, that's something I can agree on, and it's perhaps a little unfair to him to pit DLH against his comp, given that he'd be naturally bigger than most of Floyd's prime weights (130-135) comp.

That said, if they fought at 135, DLH wins narrowly imo.

[sweet_scientist]

I agree that De La Hoya's resume is better, but this is one of the very rare occasions where I would say the fighter with the inferior resume is the superior fighter in all-time pound-for-pound terms. This doesn't happen a lot with me as I believe resume is always the most important factor, but it is not invariably the sole factor to consider.

Fair enough.

OK, he should've dropped the decision to Castillo in their 1st fight, but was Castillo really a vastly inferior fighter p4p to the Quartey that gave Oscar so much trouble? I don't think he was.

No, not vastly.

[Russell]

Hoya's ridiculous early career weight draining while he was tearing through the lower divisions is balanced somewhat by him taking on the likes of Bernard Hopkin's later in his career, a guy comfortably fighting at LHW now.

[DINAMITA]

Out of interest, how do you think DLH does against Floyd's level of competition?

I don't see ANYTHING for DLH to worry about at all. He'd be undefeated, uncontroversially so, and with a higher knockout percentage.

In all fairness, I don't see Mayweather losing to Mosley at welterweight. That's just personal opinion, I think Mayweather beats Mosley at any weight, even light. PBF was just a more intelligent, better fighter all-round and would not have lost to Mosley, especially not in his prime and at his prime weight against a Mosley coming up in weight. I don't think it's fair to compare Mayweather to Trinidad or Hopkins as they were far bigger men naturally, Mayweather being a natural sfw whereas Trinidad was a natural ww and Hopkins a natural mw. And although I really wouldn't fancy him to do so, it's not totally out of the question that Mayweather could outpoint Tito. (Oscar's losses to Mayweather and Pacquiao don't come into my thinking on this, he was well past-prime by then)

But this is not my point - my point is that although he didn't start his career there, I believe Oscar was a natural ww. I think that was his best fighting weight. I believe Floyd was a natural sfw, I think that was his best fighting weight. I think Floyd was better at sfw (annihilated p4p#5 Corrales, beat G.Hernandez and J.Chavez) than Oscar was at ww (lost to Mosley, debatable decisions v past-prime Whitaker and Quartey).

JMO

[DINAMITA]

Hoya's ridiculous early career weight draining while he was tearing through the lower divisions is balanced somewhat by him taking on the likes of Bernard Hopkin's later in his career, a guy comfortably fighting at LHW now.

I've never agreed with the p-o-v that Oscar making those weights in his younger days was any sort of malfeasance that had to be "balanced". If he could make those weights by playing by the rules, IMO he had every right to pick up titles and beat good names there on his way up, it would have been stupid not to. But yes, he more than made up for it by fighting Hopkins, Sturm, Vargas etc later on.

[DINAMITA]

I don't see Floyd being better at 130 than Oscar was at 135 personally. He is naturally smaller though, that's something I can agree on, and it's perhaps a little unfair to him to pit DLH against his comp, given that he'd be naturally bigger than most of Floyd's prime weights (130-135) comp.

That said, if they fought at 135, DLH wins narrowly imo.

I believe Floyd beats Oscar at 130, 135 and 140, I believe Oscar beats Floyd at 147 and 154. For me, the only really difficult one to call is the fight at 140. That's a 50-50 but when pushed I'd back Floyd on points.

[saul_ir34]

Well being that a past it DLH is the best fighter on PBFs resume I would say DLH.
DLH would be fighter of our generation had he gotten the nod in his very very close fights.

[DINAMITA]

Well being that a past it DLH is the best fighter on PBFs resume I would say DLH.
DLH would be fighter of our generation had he gotten the nod in his very very close fights.

Mosley v De La Hoya I was not a very very close fight. Mosley came up from lightweight and beat peak Oscar at his prime weight clearly and convincingly IMO.

[Russell]

I've never agreed with the p-o-v that Oscar making those weights in his younger days was any sort of malfeasance that had to be "balanced". If he could make those weights by playing by the rules, IMO he had every right to pick up titles and beat good names there on his way up, it would have been stupid not to. But yes, he more than made up for it by fighting Hopkins, Sturm, Vargas etc later on.

Yeah, sadly not every fighter has access to thousand's and thousand's of dollars dumped into what allows you to weight drain to such extreme.

High end diuretics, being fed intravenously with IV's post weigh in, expensive supplements, saunas.

[pugilist_boyd]

floyd hasnt done shit compared to oscar,yet,and if he wouldnt have back peddled 80% of there fight his cocky little ass wouldve been knocked the fuck out by a past prime oscar

[sweet_scientist]

In all fairness, I don't see Mayweather losing to Mosley at welterweight. That's just personal opinion, I think Mayweather beats Mosley at any weight, even light. PBF was just a more intelligent, better fighter all-round and would not have lost to Mosley, especially not in his prime and at his prime weight against a Mosley coming up in weight.

Despite the fact that Mosley beat a PRIME Oscar clearer than Floyd did a PAST PRIME Oscar? Well I don't know about that. Mayweather is more intelligent and has better defense, but Mosley has better power and strength and is equally as quick. I could see Mosley bossing Floyd around the ring actually, quite badly even. At welterweight especially.

I don't think it's fair to compare Mayweather to Trinidad or Hopkins as they were far bigger men naturally, Mayweather being a natural sfw whereas Trinidad was a natural ww and Hopkins a natural mw. And although I really wouldn't fancy him to do so, it's not totally out of the question that Mayweather could outpoint Tito. (Oscar's losses to Mayweather and Pacquiao don't come into my thinking on this, he was well past-prime by then)Fair enough. He would have a great stylistic advantage on Tito, but I still think Tito will run him out of the ring. Probably getting a close decision win. Tito is NOT Diego Corrales.

But this is not my point - my point is that although he didn't start his career there, I believe Oscar was a natural ww. I think that was his best fighting weight. I believe Floyd was a natural sfw, I think that was his best fighting weight. I think Floyd was better at sfw (annihilated p4p#5 Corrales, beat G.Hernandez and J.Chavez) than Oscar was at ww (lost to Mosley, debatable decisions v past-prime Whitaker and Quartey).

JMOI'd say Oscar was better at 135 and 140 than he was at welterweight. He looked a tad smaller than natural welters like Tito and Quartey to me. I think he fought at 147 because the big names were there, but had they been at 140 I think he could have comfortably campaigned there until well into his late 20's.