Which fighter reverses their loss?

[fists of fury]

Larry Holmes TKO 10 Muhammad Ali
Mike Tyson KO4 Larry Holmes
Rocky Marciano KO 8 Joe Louis

These results are cemented in history now, but of these three fights, which fighter (as a younger man) has the best chance to beat the man who beat him?

PS-Tyson, Holmes and Marciano must be at the same stage of their career when he beat his man.

[JohnThomas1]

Personally i think all 3 would likely reverse the trend tho betting will be tight in every fight. Holmes and Tyson were right at their peak so we have peak Ali and Holmes coming back at em.

Ali W15 Holmes
Holmes TKO14 Tyson
Louis TKO7 Marciano

[Holmes' Jab]

That's a fair enough summary, JT1.

In saying that, though despite ranking Ali higher on my All-Time list- I think that in a prime head-to-head contest Holmes might, just might squeak a narrow points win over Ali. It would certainly be an intriguing bout. :good

[JohnThomas1]

That's a fair enough summary, JT1.

In saying that, though despite ranking Ali higher on my All-Time list- I think that in a prime head-to-head contest Holmes might, just might squeak a narrow points win over Ali. It would certainly be an intriguing bout. :good

Oh it's tight, damn tight. Stylistically Holmes will be tougher than the likes of Foreman and co, possibly even Frazier.

[janitor]

Larry Holmes TKO 10 Muhammad Ali
Mike Tyson KO4 Larry Holmes
Rocky Marciano KO 8 Joe Louis

These results are cemented in history now, but of these three fights, which fighter (as a younger man) has the best chance to beat the man who beat him?

PS-Tyson, Holmes and Marciano must be at the same stage of their career when he beat his man.

I hapen to think that all the winners here would be bad stylistic match ups for the men they beat at any stage of their career.

It would be a rash man who made Rocky Marciano clear favourite over a prime Joe Louis or Larry Holmes over a prime Ali but they would be highly dangerous matches. Tyson Holmes is one where I think the oucome might well have been the same if less one sided.

[fists of fury]

I hapen to think that all the winners here would be bad stylistic match ups for the men they beat at any stage of their career.


:good I feel the same.


Tyson Holmes is one where I think the oucome might well have been the same if less one sided.

Perfectly possible.

George Foreman once said that if you can't beat a man at 45, you can;t beat him at 25 either. Old George was exaggerating of course, but there is an element of truth to what he said.

[bb251]

ali wins by split decision
holmes stops tyson late
the rock stops louis in 15

[JohnThomas1]

:good I feel the same.



Perfectly possible.

George Foreman once said that if you can't beat a man at 45, you can;t beat him at 25 either. Old George was exaggerating of course, but there is an element of truth to what he said.

I'm not so sure. I could pretty easily envision Ali beating Berbick, Holmes beating McCall, Duran beating Paz among others and about 1000 other examples. I think George is 90% or more wrong.

[fists of fury]

I'm not so sure. I could pretty easily envision Ali beating Berbick, Holmes beating McCall, Duran beating Paz among others and about 1000 other examples. I think George is 90% or more wrong.

On the other hand, I can't argue with this either.

I feel like such an intelluectual whore. :lol:

[JohnThomas1]

On the other hand, I can't argue with this either.

I feel like such an intelluectual whore. :lol:

Hahaha, you know you love it

:lol:

[Duodenum]

Larry would have had a far better chance of decisioning Ali with Eddie Futch in his corner. Ritchie Giachetti's a fine trainer, but Futch has Ali's number. Ali 15 PTS Giachetti era Holmes

The Joe Louis of the Godoy rematch (with Blackburn in his corner) would have sliced up Marciano en route to a decision win or late stoppage.

Holmes UD 15 Tyson

I think Larry's punching power was slightly overrated, so allowing for Tyson's chin, I think Mike would probably go the distance. He would become very frustrated by Larry's ability to use his reach effectively, and tie up Tyson on the inside. Mike could score a flash knockdown, as he had the speed to do it. If Holmes took him out, an uppercut would likely be the key punch. Actually, I'm not convinced that Tyson could beat Holmes in a rematch today. (I think Tyson is that far gone.)

[Lex]

Ali always had trouble with tall boxers who jabbed well. I'm betting he'd squeak by with a controversial split decision over Holmes.

Larry Holmes tended to be a slow starter and a dangerous finisher later on. If he survives the first round he'll chop Tyson down by round 10.

Old Joe Louis was actually doing pretty well the first few rounds against Marciano, before he tired and Rocky ground him down. A young Louis would literally make mincemeat of Marciano's face and force a mercy stoppage to end the carnage. Even in the bloody old days there were limits to how much gore a referee could tolerate.

[ripcity]

Larry Holmes TKO 10 Muhammad Ali
Mike Tyson KO4 Larry Holmes
Rocky Marciano KO 8 Joe Louis

These results are cemented in history now, but of these three fights, which fighter (as a younger man) has the best chance to beat the man who beat him?

PS-Tyson, Holmes and Marciano must be at the same stage of their career when he beat his man.
I think a younger version of Ali would have the best chance to get a win. I could see him out boxing Holmes to a 15 round decision. Louis probbly beats Marciano but it won't be easy. Going by the amont of rounds that the acatual fight was sechuld for which was 10 rounds my pick is Louis 6 tounds to 4. I just can't see Holmes not geting knocked out by Tyson he might have lasted longe but I'm not sure how much longer. I will go with Tyson ko 6.

[Jear]

[quote=Lex]Ali always had trouble with tall boxers who jabbed well. I'm betting he'd squeak by with a controversial split decision over Holmes.


Dont fully agree with this, Terrel, Liston and Foreman all had very good jabs. I feel Holmes actually had more trouble with guys who could jab, Witherspoon, Spinks.

I believe that as good as Larry was, and I rate him from 2-6 all time depending on my mood, Ali is just too much for him. Never easy but just has that little bit more.

Holmes and Louis both reverse their losses, though Marciano and Tyson are live.

[apollack]

Louis most likely to reverse it, but you never know, because Rocky had an iron jaw, big punch, endless conditioning, so he could have still done the trick. That said, a young Louis was just so fast and strong with a brutal jab and blazing combos, vicious power in either hand, height and reach and footwork and precision punching, that he would have probably busted Rocky up so badly that he would have thought Walcott, Charles, and Moore's punches were little love taps. Even a slow motion old ass Louis put up a semi-decent fight, and Joe was really really shot at that point.

Holmes likely too fast, such good footwork, great condition, great championsip heart and will and ability to recover, lots of punch volume for a heavy that he either gets a decision or late stoppage over Tyson. However, given that Larry was decked and/or hurt by much slower fighters than Tyson, guys who did not have Mike's blazing hand speed, footwork, head movement, vicious attack, and finishing ability, it is certainly possible that Mike could have still nailed Larry and taken him out anyway.

Ali-Holmes is the toughest one. Holmes really had Ali's number, and Muhammad never had to deal with a guy like himself, who had hand speed, outside boxing skill, and could offset his strengths. Larry did what Muhammad did with a more powerful and assertive style. That said, Ali was a guy who found ways to win, and although Larry may have had a bit more power, Ali had more handspeed, more punch volume, better footwork, better overall ring intelligence. This though would probably be the closest one of the three.

[Boilermaker]

I'm not so sure. I could pretty easily envision Ali beating Berbick, Holmes beating McCall, Duran beating Paz among others and about 1000 other examples. I think George is 90% or more wrong.

I think you have the saying back to front. Berbick Could beat Ali at 45. George said, if you can't beat a man. For example, it is highly unlikely that Michael Moorer who couldnt beat him at 45 could beat George when George was 25.

On to the original question, everyone seems to be ignoring the last part of the question which is that the reversal is when the older fighter is at a similar stage. So, Joe Louis clearly has the toughest job because the he fought Marciano in his last fight. In marcianos last fight he had maybe deteriorated a little but realistically he was not far off prime. Prime Louis vs Old Marciano is a pickem fight and could go either way because old marciano was still very good.

Prime Tyson meant old Holmes, coming off 2 losses to spinks and in his first fight out of retirement without much training. I am not sure which version of tyson this equates to, but given that Holmes managed to produce good form against wolrd class oponents later on, we are probably looking at the Tyson that met McNeely (although you could also probably argue that the tyson that met lewis fits this bill also. Prime Holmes would definitely be capable of winning this fight, but then again Tyson could also catch and KO Larry like he did in the real fight if Larry wasnt careful. Holmes would probably start favourite, but tyson would be a realistic chance still and would have plenty of fans thinking he would win. Not all that far off a 50/50 fight if you ask me.

Ali v Holmes. Holmes is always a bad style match up. The Holmes who had his last fight was still skilled, but not really a top 10 world class fighter of the time. Ali, imo, when in his prime peppers, toys with and stops Old Holmes the same way he outclassed old Archie Moore.

Incidentally, prime for Prime, i also give ali the best chance at winning though the three fights could go either way. A real life rematch might be an interesting rematch. Ali v Holmes II would have went the same way as I despite the improvements vs Berbick, i think. An old Joe Louis did have a chance against Marciano, but it would be unlikely. Old Larry Holmes has the best chance. A fully trained Holmes that went the distance with Holyfield and shortly after might very well have beaten Iron Mike. When Holmes beat Mercer, again he would not be far off Mike. If Holmes Tyson II ever happens now, there is no reason why Holmes could not win given Tyson's total deterioration.

[JohnThomas1]

I think you have the saying back to front. Berbick Could beat Ali at 45. George said, if you can't beat a man. For example, it is highly unlikely that Michael Moorer who couldnt beat him at 45 could beat George when George was 25.



Shit lmao