View Full Version : What were your scores for these Sven Ottke fights?
Amsterdam
08-15-2007, 12:44 PM
Vs. Brewer twice
Vs. Byron Mitchell
Vs. Mads Larsen
Vs. Reid
Vs. Johnson
Vs. Branco
Vs. Starie
Vs. Markussen
Let's see what you have guys.:good
Amsterdam
08-15-2007, 12:54 PM
You actually WATCH Sven Ottke fights?
I did, just in the hope that he would have been starched at the time they happened:lol: , I've reviewed some lately to see how my scores differed then to how they do recently(I keep notebooks full of my scores in order of the date of the fights).
I rank his career as fraudulent as John Ruiz's, thus why I am seeing where other posters differ.
UndisputedUK
08-15-2007, 01:19 PM
Hmm, the Robin Reid fight again. :patsch
That fight was a mugging, it was Reid and his corner against everyone else there.
Tillerman the ref isn't it? Pure Pantomime!
He warned Reid for hitting Ottke at one point, hitting him with a correct punch. He was warning all the time Reid put on an attack. Ottke did nothing for round after round. When Tillerman had stopped Reid raising any form of assault, Ottke came back into it.
The worst was still to come, Reid knocked down Ottke and Tillerman ruled it a slip. He then deducted a point from Reid for something or other. It should have been a 10-8 round for Reid instead it probably went 10-8 to Ottke. A 4 point turnaround.
If I was Reid I would have left the ring, except for the purse! Cheating German B'stards.
The sport at one of it's lowest points. Probably one of the worst unified champions ever, he had more gifts than Santa!
Amsterdam
08-15-2007, 01:23 PM
I agree Undisputed UK, that's why I highlighted some controversial ones and am looking for common scores, since most of them weren't played in America, most Americans have little clue about Ottke.
Kolya
08-15-2007, 01:23 PM
Hmm, the Robin Reid fight again. :patsch
That fight was a mugging, it was Reid and his corner against everyone else there.
Tillerman the ref isn't it? Pure Pantomime!
He warned Reid for hitting Ottke at one point, hitting him with a correct punch. He was warning all the time Reid put on an attack. Ottke did nothing for round after round. When Tillerman had stopped Reid raising any form of assault, Ottke came back into it.
The worst was still to come, Reid knocked down Ottke and Tillerman ruled it a slip. He then deducted a point from Reid for something or other. It should have been a 10-8 round for Reid instead it probably went 10-8 to Ottke. A 4 point turnaround.
If I was Reid I would have left the ring, except for the purse! Cheating German B'stards.
The sport at one of it's lowest points. Probably one of the worst unified champions ever, he had more gifts than Santa!
He was a great amateur; but his style and lack of power didn't carry to the pros very well.
Amsterdam
08-15-2007, 01:31 PM
Here were my scores out of my book and with some rewatched scores as well:
Brewer 1 - Brewer 116-112
Brewer 2 - Brewer 115-113
Larsen - Larsen 115-113... when I first watched I had it 116-112 Larsen
Reid - Reid 116-112... when I first watched I had it 117-111 Reid
Johnson - Johnson 116-112
Branco - Ottke 115-113, first watched I had it a point for Branco.
Starie - Starie 115-113, first time I had it a draw.
Markussen - Ottke 115-113, first time I had it a draw.
EDIT:
Forgot to add Byron Mitchell...
First time: Mitchell 116-112. Now: Mitchell 115-113.
UndisputedUK
08-15-2007, 01:36 PM
He was a great amateur; but his style and lack of power didn't carry to the pros very well.
Amateur great or not, he was a joke in that fight mate, a double act him and Roger Tillerman.
The fact that it was all so obvious that Reid was going to be ripped off is what made it such an entertaining Pantomime. Reid even said to Ottke lets have a rematch in the UK, jokingly. So sorry for him, but really at the end, he knew he would not win, it was one of the biggest farces ever.
Reid was robbed of the WBA and IBF titles that night, to add to the WBC he had already held.
Kolya
08-15-2007, 01:37 PM
Amateur great or not, he was a joke in that fight mate, a double act him and Roger Tillerman.
The fact that it was all so obvious that Reid was going to be ripped off is what made it such an entertaining Pantomime. Reid even said to Ottke lets have a rematch in the UK, jokingly. So sorry for him, but really at the end, he knew he would not win, it was one of the biggest farces ever.
Reid was robbed of the WBA and IBF titles that night, to add to the WBC he had already held.
I wasn't defending him mate; don't get me wrong. That fight was a travesty. I even read about it here in the states it was so bad.
Boro chris
08-15-2007, 01:38 PM
You actually WATCH Sven Ottke fights?
I know!! It betrays a level of devotion that I just cant compete with!:yep
Can't remember my exact scores, but I had Reid, Larsen & Brewer beating Ottke. Sven deserved the win in the rest.
UndisputedUK
08-15-2007, 01:43 PM
Here were my scores out of my book and with some rewatched scores as well:
Brewer 1 - Brewer 116-112
Brewer 2 - Brewer 115-113
Larsen - Larsen 115-113... when I first watched I had it 116-112 Larsen
Reid - Reid 116-112... when I first watched I had it 117-111 Reid
Johnson - Johnson 116-112
Branco - Ottke 115-113, first watched I had it a point for Branco.
Starie - Starie 115-113, first time I had it a draw.
Markussen - Ottke 115-113, first time I had it a draw.
If I remember in the Reid fight, I thought Reid had won clearly nearly all of the first few\four rounds, but his corner tell him that Ottke is already like a few points up or something. Perhaps the KD round was a little later. Reid should have won the fight in the first half, but he was already behind on the scorecards big time. Then there was the KD point deduction debacle. I think they may have "given" Reid a few of the last lot of rounds that he probably "really did lose" to try and make the scores not look so obvious.
Facts are:
Reid clearly beat Ottke in the majority of the early rounds, some of them very clearly indeed. Ottke was knocked down by a punch and it was called a slip. Reid was constantly warned and docked a point for fighting a clean fight.
heerko koois
08-15-2007, 01:45 PM
ottke was so boring...........never seen the end of any of his "fights" .....
after 7 rounds i fell a sleep....
Tom_Tocca
08-15-2007, 01:54 PM
Vs. Brewer twice
Vs. Byron Mitchell
Vs. Mads Larsen
Vs. Reid
Vs. Johnson
Vs. Branco
Vs. Starie
Vs. Markussen
Let's see what you have guys.:good
Brewster I: 113-116
Brewster II: 116-112
Byron Mitchell: 117-113
Mads Larsen: 115-114
Reid: 112-115
Johnson: 116-112
Branco: 116-112
Starie: 116-113
Markussen: 117-113
Vs. Brewer twice
Vs. Byron Mitchell
Vs. Mads Larsen
Vs. Reid
Vs. Johnson
Vs. Branco
Vs. Starie
Vs. Markussen
Let's see what you have guys.:good
I remember my cards rather clearly, as these fights are quite frequently discussed over at boxrec.com.
That said, I think in terms of your scoring, you are quite harsh on Ottke, Amsterdam. :lol:
Still, he had his fair share of gift decisions. Keeping in mind all the ridiculous point deductions we see in Ottke fights, I'll just give my scores in number of rounds won:
Brewer 8-4 over Ottke (fight 1).
Ottke 7-5 over Brewer (fight 2).
Ottke 7-5 over Mitchell.
Draw 6-6 against Larsen.
Reid 8-4 over Ottke (plus KD).
Ottke 7-4-1 over Johnson.
Branco 6-5-1 over Ottke.
Draw 6-6 against Starie.
Ottke 8-4 over Markussen.
So out of these 9 fights I had Ottke losing 3 times, to Reid, Silvio Branco, and Charles brewer (once), and had him earning 2 draws. He should have been 4-3-2 (or something very similar) instead of 9-0 in these fights.
Amsterdam
08-15-2007, 02:55 PM
Yes, axe, it's true that I despise Ottke and the corruption involved with his fraudulent carrer, so I expect a bit of bias, but I am competant at scoring fights.
It seems the Reid fight was a universal win for Reid, let's check that one off with the first Brewer fight, so 2 universally considered losses essentially.
i had ottke winning them all bar the brewer 1 fight and the reid fight.
but i have said it many times, ottke new the scorecards during the fights and new if he could take his foot of the gas and take no risks, which he did.
It's really sad to see that Ottke is ranked above Hopkins on the all time title defense record list. Imagine if he got some more fights in before retiring in Germany and broke Joe Louis' record. It would make the record a complete joke. The most pathetic thing is that Germans cheer for him every single time after the match, even when they know he robbed the challenger of a win and they act like it doesn't matter.
yesihavearm
08-15-2007, 04:55 PM
Ottke was an absolute joke. Calzaghe would have absolutely destroyed him. Worse than the Jeff Lacy beating, it would literally be like a professional fighter fighting someone randomly off the streets in the ring.
The fact that he knocked out Mundine tho lol haha.
Yeah, he made his fights close than they should have been. Very unfair also.
no he made his fights much more boring than they should have been.
in the larson fight for example ottke never threw a punch in the last round , because he new the scorecards.
i love the sport of boxing, but do not find that acceptable in this sport.
David B
08-15-2007, 05:11 PM
you guys forgot the Mundine fight.i watched it live at ZDF the german channel and after non-puncher Ottke knocked out Mundine cold he gave an interview at 30 metres from the ring with his gloves still on!!!!!!
The only thing is,the fight was already over for 20 minutes.
Joey Gatti was also knocked out by Ottke and suffered a minor brainbleeding.
He accused Sven later of loaded gloves...
Max Molyneux
08-15-2007, 05:29 PM
Here were my scores out of my book and with some rewatched scores as well:
Brewer 1 - Brewer 116-112
Brewer 2 - Brewer 115-113
Larsen - Larsen 115-113... when I first watched I had it 116-112 Larsen
Reid - Reid 116-112... when I first watched I had it 117-111 Reid
Johnson - Johnson 116-112
Branco - Ottke 115-113, first watched I had it a point for Branco.
Starie - Starie 115-113, first time I had it a draw.
Markussen - Ottke 115-113, first time I had it a draw.
EDIT:
Forgot to add Byron Mitchell...
First time: Mitchell 116-112. Now: Mitchell 115-113.
Yet to think Mundine was KO'ed by this dude!:rofl
Max Molyneux
08-15-2007, 05:30 PM
Ottke was an absolute joke. Calzaghe would have absolutely destroyed him. Worse than the Jeff Lacy beating, it would literally be like a professional fighter fighting someone randomly off the streets in the ring.
The fact that he knocked out Mundine tho lol haha.
They would of DQ'ed Joe for knocking that guy out!:twisted:
BITCH ASS
08-15-2007, 05:34 PM
You gotta make money somehow.
Sven Ottke was a sure bet.
DamonD
08-15-2007, 05:35 PM
I saw Reid-Ottke on the BBC, that got me so angry...I haven't been that pissed off at a result since the Lewis-Holyfield I 'draw' years before, although at least with Reid-Ottke it wasn't as much of a surprise because you could see so early on how much the ref was pulling for Ottke.
That bit where Reid hit Ottke with a right hook, around the 4th or 5th round, and then the ref stepped right in and told him off...I knew it was never going to be a victory. The knockdown fiasco later was just a further kick in the mouth. Absolutely abysmal.
Reid did fade a bit over the last four rounds or so, after the 'knockdown that never was', but then I don't think his heart was in it anymore.
Yes, axe, it's true that I despise Ottke and the corruption involved with his fraudulent carrer, so I expect a bit of bias, but I am competant at scoring fights.
It seems the Reid fight was a universal win for Reid, let's check that one off with the first Brewer fight, so 2 universally considered losses essentially.
Agreed, those 2 were pretty much universally accepted losses for Ottke, just like Holy-Lewis I is a universally accepted W for Lewis. You have to concede then that the Calzaghe-Reid fight was one that could have gone either way as well, fair is fair (though it wasn't a universally accepted L for either fighter, going by public opinion).
emanuel_augustus
08-15-2007, 06:49 PM
Brewster I: 113-116
Brewster II: 116-112
Byron Mitchell: 117-113
Mads Larsen: 115-114
Reid: 112-115
Johnson: 116-112
Branco: 116-112
Starie: 116-113
Markussen: 117-113
These are actually pretty accurate. I was an Ottke fan, respected what he did in terms of great technique, balance, and downright craftiness against guys against whom he was at great physical disadvantage.
I think Ottke won all of these except Brewer I (and that was close 115-113 Brewer) and Reid.
The Larsen fight could've been a draw, tough to score. Ottke clearly beat the other guys.
Forgot to add Byron Mitchell...
First time: Mitchell 116-112. Now: Mitchell 115-113.
Try watching it again. Ottke outboxed him over the majority of that fight. Mitchell had him going in the 12th though. No way Mitchell deserved that decision.
The other thing about Ottke decisions. Look at the judges, often the neutral judges, even the Americans, had him winning. The "German judging" thing is way overblown.
Amsterdam
08-15-2007, 06:52 PM
Agreed, those 2 were pretty much universally accepted losses for Ottke, just like Holy-Lewis I is a universally accepted W for Lewis. You have to concede then that the Calzaghe-Reid fight was one that could have gone either way as well, fair is fair (though it wasn't a universally accepted L for either fighter, going by public opinion).
How?
8-4 Calzaghe all day long, 7-5 if you were really digging for Reid, no way was it even a draw.
emanuel_augustus
08-15-2007, 06:54 PM
AHow?
8-4 Calzaghe all day long, 7-5 if you were really digging for Reid, no way was it even a draw.
How exactly did you find Glen Johnson and Byron Mitchell beating Ottke??
Oh, and Calzaghe clearly beat him.
Amsterdam
08-15-2007, 07:35 PM
A
How exactly did you find Glen Johnson and Byron Mitchell beating Ottke??
Oh, and Calzaghe clearly beat him.
Byron Mitchell sweeped the late rounds, took 2 early ones. Glen Johnson fight I remember him effectively pressuring and landing the better punches...
Haven't watched it since I watched it years ago, so if I can get a link I'll gladly watch and re-score it.
Words
08-15-2007, 07:58 PM
The Robin Reid fight was an embarassment to boxing, I feel so sorry for the guy.
I dont think that the Markussen fight belong on the list, but clearly Larsen won, all media and experts had him winning.
I think that the German boxingfans have become less green, and wont be that easy to please again, like they where with the ohh so borring Ottke...
Did any German media ever focus on this?
How?
8-4 Calzaghe all day long, 7-5 if you were really digging for Reid, no way was it even a draw.
Well a lot of the British fanbase would disagree with you there, many at boxrec had Reid the winner. If I recall the fight was actually an SD win, one of the official judges had Reid winning by 5 points.
Amsterdam
08-17-2007, 09:53 AM
Well a lot of the British fanbase would disagree with you there, many at boxrec had Reid the winner. If I recall the fight was actually an SD win, one of the official judges had Reid winning by 5 points.
Have you seen the fight? The judge who had Reid winning was a local from Reid's area, this was a typical "english vs. welsh" type event. Boxrec guys don't like Calzaghe, in which if you despise someone, you can see things that aren't there for your purposes.
joe33
08-17-2007, 11:08 AM
He was a fucking nightmare to watch,he would run and hold the whole round,then suddenly run in and slap his man,and get the rounds.
The ref and crowd were all on his side,fair enough the crowd,but the ref was if you see the fights kind of standing looking at the other guy all night,barley looked at ottke,waiting to jump in and pull the other fighter,for daring to punch back,guess thats not allowed in germany.
Fair play to the crowd somtimes though,i heard a fair level of booing a few times,when he won,must have been a few fair minded germans in there.
The reid fight put me off boxing for a while though,i honestly expected robin to rip his head off,and shut up the crowd for good.But he was stopped from even raising his fists,in the most shameful night of europeon boxing ive ever seen,some of the crowd though when they showed close ups,looked fucking shamed big time,they all knew what was going on,reid should have just walked out fuck the lot of them,make them look like the scum they were that night,screw the money.
That damn german promoter though,they always showed needed a good slap to,he would freak out if ottke got hit fairly,shout to the ref,and at the end he got in the ring with a huge grin on his smarmy looking face and talk to the ref and others,like he knew danm well they had it in the bag about 10 or 12 rounds back,fucking glad ottke retired,wish the promoter would to.
maciek4
08-17-2007, 12:32 PM
I havent scored his fights they were boring but I remember I definitly had Brewer winning the first one by a comfortable margin, however I remember that Ottke clearly beat him in the rematch. The Reid fight was a robbery but the other ones I had Ottke winning in close fights.
RonnieHornschuh
08-17-2007, 03:12 PM
did you know he beat Dariusz Michalczewski, Michael Moorer, Chris Byrd, Antonio Tarver and Juan Carlos Gomez as an amateur? hard to believe...
achillesthegreat
08-17-2007, 03:22 PM
Ottke was a very good fighter but if you monitor his career you'll realse he got old and looked old.
I've only ever looked to score the Reid fight and I think Reid definitely won that. If I remember right he lost a bogus point and wasn't given a kd. One thing I know for sure is that ref should be thrown out of boxing.
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