Marciano p4p head to head.. a few thoughts

[ChrisPontius]

I was thinking this the other day, how many men in the entire history of boxing that are of Marciano's weight or smaller would you pick to beat him?

Dempsey is the first that comes to mind. I think Marciano's chin and heart get him through the first rounds to make him prevail late in the fight. But it's certainly not unreasonable to pick Dempsey over Marciano.

So that's one. Who else is there?

Gene Tunney. Again i see Marciano grinding Tunney down as he did with all skillfull boxers that he faced although in a thread lately, about 30% picked Tunney so he should be mentioned.

Schmeling, Patterson, Spinks, Holyfield (@ CW) i would make big underdogs and he already beat Walcott twice.


Then there are p4p legends like Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles who carried their succes up to the heavyweight division. But Marciano knocked both of them out. Moore was old but he was on a great 44-1 winning streak and Charles put up one hell of a performance.


So unless i overlooked some fighters, Marciano is at worst 50/50 against one man in history (Dempsey) and (strong) favorite against any other boxer of his weight or smaller in the entire history of gloved boxing. Additionally, he knocked out great lightheavyweights.



Given all this, how high would you rank him pound for pound, in a head to head sense?

[cross_trainer]

I would give Schmeling a good chance along with Dempsey. I strongly suspect that 'Simmons would pull it off as well.

Nevertheless, you have a strong case for Marciano as one of the best P4P fighters by the best criteria there is--that nobody could beat him at his best weight.

[Marciano Frazier]

I was thinking this the other day, how many men in the entire history of boxing that are of Marciano's weight or smaller would you pick to beat him?

Dempsey is the first that comes to mind. I think Marciano's chin and heart get him through the first rounds to make him prevail late in the fight. But it's certainly not unreasonable to pick Dempsey over Marciano.

So that's one. Who else is there?

Gene Tunney. Again i see Marciano grinding Tunney down as he did with all skillfull boxers that he faced although in a thread lately, about 30% picked Tunney so he should be mentioned.

Schmeling, Patterson, Spinks, Holyfield (@ CW) i would make big underdogs and he already beat Walcott twice.


Then there are p4p legends like Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles who carried their succes up to the heavyweight division. But Marciano knocked both of them out. Moore was old but he was on a great 44-1 winning streak and Charles put up one hell of a performance.


So unless i overlooked some fighters, Marciano is at worst 50/50 against one man in history (Dempsey) and (strong) favorite against any other boxer of his weight or smaller in the entire history of gloved boxing. Additionally, he knocked out great lightheavyweights.



Given all this, how high would you rank him pound for pound, in a head to head sense? This is true. From his own weight down, there are no more than one or two guys in history who I might make even odds with Marciano.

[OLD FOGEY]

I was thinking this the other day, how many men in the entire history of boxing that are of Marciano's weight or smaller would you pick to beat him?

Dempsey is the first that comes to mind. I think Marciano's chin and heart get him through the first rounds to make him prevail late in the fight. But it's certainly not unreasonable to pick Dempsey over Marciano.

So that's one. Who else is there?

Gene Tunney. Again i see Marciano grinding Tunney down as he did with all skillfull boxers that he faced although in a thread lately, about 30% picked Tunney so he should be mentioned.

Schmeling, Patterson, Spinks, Holyfield (@ CW) i would make big underdogs and he already beat Walcott twice.


Then there are p4p legends like Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles who carried their succes up to the heavyweight division. But Marciano knocked both of them out. Moore was old but he was on a great 44-1 winning streak and Charles put up one hell of a performance.


So unless i overlooked some fighters, Marciano is at worst 50/50 against one man in history (Dempsey) and (strong) favorite against any other boxer of his weight or smaller in the entire history of gloved boxing. Additionally, he knocked out great lightheavyweights.



Given all this, how high would you rank him pound for pound, in a head to head sense?

Excellent post. I would rank him very highly pound for pound.

[McGrain]

Good post.

Personally, I would pick Dempsey to beat him.

I also think that Langford could do it, on points.

I'd give both Conn and Tunney a chance.

[janitor]

The only fighter his weight or less that I could make a clear favourite over him is Jack Dempsey. So I guess that makes him prety respectable in the pound for pound stakes.

[Dempsey1238]

And even than Dempsey is 50 50. I have it a pick em odds. One punch could change the tide of the fight. I dont see why people belive Billy Conn could do it. I see Marciano stopping Conn in 6 or 7 round.

[Bummy Davis]

Although I favor Marciano over Dempsey because of Stamina and late power,Dempsey has a chance, other than that,Holyfield would make a fight of it but again did not have the late power and would fizzle,Charles fought the fight of his life and got up for the 1st Marciano fight, he was not much older than Rocky and was close to his Heavyweight prime. I rate Rocky top 5-10 LB4LB

[JohnThomas1]

Wouldn't surprise me if he beat em all actually. Especially over 15 rounds.

[fists of fury]

I have a similar feeling on Marciano. As has been said, a Dempsey would be a close, hard fight that you could argue goes either way.

Evander Holyfield in his cruiserweight days was an excellent fighter, but I can't see him having the strength to keep Marciano off him for 12 or 15 rounds. I believe he could possibly take Rocky the distance, but he would feel like a truck had ridden over him in doing so.

Langford? I'll let other posters with more knowledge of him settle this one.

Nobody has mentioned Roy Jones yet. At 193 he would be in the ballpark weight wise, so I guess you could inlcude him.
I think honestly though, that it would be hard for Jones to contain Marciano for the entire 12 or 15 rounds, although he does have the speed to make Marciano look foolish at times.
However, he he couldn't budge Ruiz much, he ain't going to budge Rocky. Marciano KO 9.

[djb2009]

Rocky takes Jones' head off when he catches him. Though I agree jones could make him look foolish at times. Marciano KO

[Sweet Science]

I would pick Sam Langford to win a hard fought decision against Marciano.

[ChrisPontius]

I would pick Sam Langford to win a hard fought decision against Marciano.

Based on what? You've never seen him fight.

[Sweet Science]

Based on what? You've never seen him fight.

How would you know what I have and haven't seen of Langford?

There isn't a wealth of footage, but there is enough to make a judgement.

[Dempsey1238]

Langford was no master boxer though. He was a brawler, he be playing RIGHT into Marciano's strong points. One of em is going to go in a brawl like that. And I think Marciano would win by ko, perhaps in the 5th round. I would not expect that match to last long one way or the other.

[ChrisPontius]

How would you know what I have and haven't seen of Langford?

There isn't a wealth of footage, but there is enough to make a judgement.

Because there is no decent footage of him available. Only grainy, unclear footage from which you can barely draw any conclusion without using your imagination a lot to fill in the blanks.

[janitor]

Langford was no master boxer though. He was a brawler, he be playing RIGHT into Marciano's strong points.

You are dead wrong there.

Langford could de everything. He could swarm his oponents, he could outbox or counter them, He could dance up on his toes and outflank them.

If you want a fighter without a significant flaw in his game then he is a good start.

[mike4819]

Wonder how A Rocky vs.Tom Sharkey brawl would end.

[Dempsey1238]

You are dead wrong there.

Langford could de everything. He could swarm his oponents, he could outbox or counter them, He could dance up on his toes and outflank them.

If you want a fighter without a significant flaw in his game then he is a good start.

The only film I saw the Flynn fight. And it seem like a brawling affair until Flynn was knockout. Of couse the film was super fast lol. I didnt see him oux Flynn, he out slug him in that fight.

[janitor]

The only film I saw the Flynn fight. And it seem like a brawling affair until Flynn was knockout. Of couse the film was super fast lol. I didnt see him oux Flynn, he out slug him in that fight.

Against Flyn it made sense to use a pressure style because Flyn himself was not a big fighter.

Against larger fighters like Wills Langford used to dance around them darting into and out of range. You can see this style demonstrated in the footage with Lang.