VARGAS, with different career choices, might he had been great??

[stillafan]

I was watching some old Vargas fights earlier in his career he was a pretty damn good fighter.....he threw fluid combinations, jabbed, countered, he looked pretty smart in there....agressive, but not reckless.....looking back at 23 years old he was thrown in with not only a prime ATG, but an all time Great with Power!...Tito eventually got to him and in a lot of peoples opinions he was never the same....he started getting hit more often, wasnt that really good fighter,. he showed against Quartey and even Winky....this guy beat Winky!!...yeah yeah, i know it was contraversial...but it was a win.........and Quartey was no slouch back then either!

If he would have had a bit more experience before facing ATGs like TITo, and OScar.....would he maybe have had the potential to be great?? or would he just be a good fighter, that was not cut out to be an A level??? he achieved a lot very young, and is retiring young too...its obviously hes nowhere near what he once was???whos fault was that?? bad management??with better management, could he have been a great??

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Your thoughts?

[Thread Stealer]

I'm not sure exactly what Main Events was thinking, but there are those that believe that Main Events wanted the big fights for Vargas quickly because they worried about his outside-the-ring troubles. The assault charges with golf clubs or whatever, Nando being hot-headed, they worried he'd get into trouble so they figured they might as well get paid before he self-destructed.

As it turns out, his personal life seemed at a point to become way more stable and it was his boxing career that went down quicker.

[stillafan]

your right, but you got to remember back then Winky was not considered what he was in recent time...in fact many people thought of Winky as a good, but not great, and very boring fighter.......its not until WInky beat shane that people said"this guys for real".......it was a good win on his resume, but not like a tito or Oscar......back then Winky was not getting all the praise he is getting now...and as of late.....in fact the quartey win was probably bigger back then....that W over Winky holds more weight now then back then,

i mean look at what he did against tito, in the biggest fight of his career opening bell...he ran upto Tito and threw a huge hook(Missed) and was dropped immediately after that...WHO DOES THAT?? answer and inexperienced immature kid that made a huge mistake in the biggest fight of his life...!!!...im not saying the outcome would have been different if he had not thrown that Crazy punch and been immediately dropped, but that does show immaturity!

[Thread Stealer]

i mean look at what he did against tito, in the biggest fight of his career opening bell...he ran upto Tito and threw a huge hook(Missed) and was dropped immediately after that...WHO DOES THAT?? answer and inexperienced immature kid that made a huge mistake in the biggest fight of his life...!!!...im not saying the outcome would have been different if he had not thrown that Crazy punch and been immediately dropped, but that does show immaturity!

Tito dropped Vargas in round 1 after countering a jab.

Vargas tried to box later on and had success, but Tito cornered him late in round 6 and hurt him with a right hand. Vargas would try to use the ring more, but Tito was able to get to him regardless.

[Thread Stealer]

I dont know if he could have been an ATG. Vargas was in a very hard fight with Tito, but it isnt as if Vargas took massive punishment in so many other fights besides that one. He had the warriors heart for certain, but for whatever reason I dont think his body could take the punishment. Even if he hadnt gotten thrown in agaisnt Trinidad, I still think he would in the position he is in now. Not everyone is like Archie Moore or Hopkins where they for whatever physical reason can keep fighting and their bodies hold up despite all the fights. Vargas just did not get that

Yeah, I look at Vargas-Trinidad in a similar way to Chavez-Taylor. The beatings Nando and Meldrick took were the main fights that led to their downfalls, but not the only ones. Both guys were too aggressive and took too many shots in general. And both of them were still good fighters after their first defeats, even if they weren't quite the same afterwards.

[stillafan]

actually i admit, i used ot dislike him too for a while....i have more sympathy now for him, but your right, he was obnoxious and would get on my last nerve...i was surfing you tube and was wtching the quartey fight, and he was actually lookind pretty damn good in there.......he for whatver reason did not keep growing as a fighter.....keep refining his skills....i think The tito whooping took something from him...similar to Meldrick and Chavez( wlthough not as bad with the brain damabe and all), but he might have left his prime in the ring that night

[stillafan]

Erratic behavior....was it a counter off a jab?? for some strange reason i thought he threw a wild hook...im probably wrong then......my minds playing tricks on me!..lol

[Thread Stealer]

Erratic behavior....was it a counter off a jab?? for some strange reason i thought he threw a wild hook...im probably wrong then......my minds playing tricks on me!..lol

It was a nice counter off a Vargas jab. I know because I've probably watched this fight more than any other fight.

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Go to the 7:00 mark.

[dave82]

He was a very good fighter however he just didnt have the tools to compete against the A+ fighters of this world. eg Tito, Hoya, Mosley

[stillafan]

:good your exactly right my friend....counter left hook, after a lazy jab!

[dave82]

He was a very good fighter however he just didnt have the tools to compete against the A+ fighters of this world. eg Tito, Hoya, Mosley

I meant defeat not compete

[Jinx]

both Vargas and David Reid should've made Tito wait, and fought each other...Reid especially fought Tito too soon, but Vargas had already been in Winky so we can't really say he wasn't ready for Tito, it just would've been smarter to wait...

[Pantera]

Vargas was a good fighter but not a great one. Vargas reminds me of those singers who compete for American Idol and fall short of winning the big one. Close, but no cigar.

I'm not sure Vargas' career would have turned out any different had he waited longer to fight Tito. The thing is, Vargas was very confident in himself then. Nothing seems to indicate that he would have tried to get any better by facing different opposition before fighting Trinidad at a later date. It seems to me, from his perspective, he didn't really need to get any better than what he was. And throwing him with second tier opposition wouldn't have helped him to get ready for Tito anyways.

Was he rushed? Yeah. Possibly. Would he have turned out better had he waited a bit before facing Tito? Perhaps. But we will never know now.

[maciek4]

He still looked good in the first Mosley fight but the second one showed that he is washed up. I still pick him to beat Mayorga who is even more washed up.

[Mundo]

i dont think he was rushed at all. cause had beaten winky and Ike...and had other good fights, and so by that time.....who else could he have fought? i mean he had beaten good past champs and contenders....what else?

[BewareofDawg]

I am a huge fan of a young, prime Vargas. I loved watching him fight and I actually thought he was great back then. But, the truth is that he would have never beaten Tito. Vargas did not have the size and strength of B-Hop or the technical skills of Hoya. Also, Vargas was/is too proud and I feel would always try and prove himself toe-to-toe against Tito....and lose the battle.

[IsaL]

I don't believe he was rushed because like amny have mentioned he had beaten solid fighters and champs in Marquez, Campas, Quartey and Winky, but maybe he inexpirience or maybe just his honor at that time prevented him from retaliating back with 3 hard low blows against Trinidad in what imo made the difference in the fight towards that latter rounds.

Against DLH he was just broken down. DLH had a game plan and excecuted very well.

[Ramshall1]

I still consider Vargas as a great fighter overall, he came up short in his biggest fights but the dude laid it all on the line every fukcin time and gave the fans what they wanted - everything he had to give.

[Lex]

He needed a full year off after the Trinidad fight, no sparring, no head shots of any kind, to fully recover. He shouldn't have fought or done any full contact sparring during all of 2001. That might have made all the difference. He was young and could have easily come back.

In his first fight after Trinidad (Wilfredo Rivera, I think), Vargas caught a couple of light shots to the head that rocked him. He did that odd sorta stutter-step, stop motion freeze thing that happens to fighters who either can't take a punch or have taken too many. Sure, he shook it off quickly, but the warning signs were obvious.

[dave82]

He needed a full year off after the Trinidad fight, no sparring, no head shots of any kind, to fully recover. He shouldn't have fought or done any full contact sparring during all of 2001. That might have made all the difference. He was young and could have easily come back.

In his first fight after Trinidad (Wilfredo Rivera, I think), Vargas caught a couple of light shots to the head that rocked him. He did that odd sorta stutter-step, stop motion freeze thing that happens to fighters who either can't take a punch or have taken too many. Sure, he shook it off quickly, but the warning signs were obvious.

I remember that, he was dropped in round 2

[DoumB]

I'm not sure exactly what Main Events was thinking, but there are those that believe that Main Events wanted the big fights for Vargas quickly because they worried about his outside-the-ring troubles. The assault charges with golf clubs or whatever, Nando being hot-headed, they worried he'd get into trouble so they figured they might as well get paid before he self-destructed.

As it turns out, his personal life seemed at a point to become way more stable and it was his boxing career that went down quicker.

you said it perfectly, he had great tools, was rushed too fast in my eyes

[aliwasthegreatest]

yea i had him the fight turning Vargas' way at the end of Mosley I

[MagnificentMatt]

Didnt he already beat Winky before fighting these guys(Oscar and Tito)..He also beat Quartey... If so then he was ready..he just got beat..Vargas is very limited...Mayorga will end him

So is Mayorga......The fight is free right, cause theres no way in hell id pay to see this fight...Its not liek they have anything to prove, and no matter who wins, neither of them will get a decent follow up fight from this...

[IntentionalButt]

No excuses please, there's no way the guy could ever have been a world-beater.

[stillafan]

yeah, it seems he came along with there was fighters that were just a tad bit better and more durable...i agree that his machismo go the best of him at times

[Ramshall1]

I agree he is a poor mans De la Hoya.:good

two very different fighters.

[chung]

it was just bad timing for vargas (mosley, DLH, Winky ect)