Thoughts on Oleg Maskaev?

[Renofan]

What's the Classic's take on him?

[ChrisPontius]

A talented fighter who had very bad management in a time when nearly all high profile fighters had good management.

His opponent for his pro debut had a record of 21-0-0 (15) ! I can't think of any other heavyweight in history doing that, and winning by 3rd round knockout. 10 fights later he's shared the ring with McCall, Tua and Steward.

He does have a weak jaw however, and that caused him to lose his share of fights. His career should've been over 2002 when he suffered another knockout loss against Corey Sanders (not the Klitschko one). But he made an improbable comeback by beating Hasim Rahman (then the #2 heavyweight in the world) for the WBC title. His comeback road was filled with mediocre fighters until he got his shot, but then again, so was Foreman's. The point is that they delivered when they had to.


So, all in all a fine fighter, but not a great one.

[Russell]

Mediocre chin fighting a iron chinned opponent = asking for trouble.

Hence the Sander's loss.

Ask Wladimir about that with his loss to Brewster, or even Puritty.

[aj415]

A talented fighter who had very bad management in a time when nearly all high profile fighters had good management.

His opponent for his pro debut had a record of 21-0-0 (15) ! I can't think of any other heavyweight in history doing that, and winning by 3rd round knockout. 10 fights later he's shared the ring with McCall, Tua and Steward.

He does have a weak jaw however, and that caused him to lose his share of fights. His career should've been over 2002 when he suffered another knockout loss against Corey Sanders (not the Klitschko one). But he made an improbable comeback by beating Hasim Rahman (then the #2 heavyweight in the world) for the WBC title. His comeback road was filled with mediocre fighters until he got his shot, but then again, so was Foreman's. The point is that they delivered when they had to.


So, all in all a fine fighter, but not a great one.

Whats the reason behind the two year layoff after his first fight?

[mr. magoo]

Whats the reason behind the two year layoff after his first fight?

That's a very good question and one that I've been wondering for a long time. Perhaps a wikapedia search might uncover something - though not always the best source. I'm wondering if his service in the Russian army had something to do with it.

[Russell]

Also, Maskaev had just as much heart and grit as anyone.

When he fought Courage he ended up with broken ribs, and Courage didn't exactly let up on the bodyshots. Oleg still won.

[Senya13]

Good punch, but glass chin and zero recuperative abilities.

[leverage]

A decent fighter who did some things well but nothing grear

[Muchmoore]

The general consensus here seems right.

I'll add that he exceeded his expectations and achieved more than most HWs with a shaky chin.

[rodney]

Going by his last fight, he definately was not impressive.
He sucked against Sam Peter who has below average skills to say the least.

[mr. magoo]

Going by his last fight, he definately was not impressive.
He sucked against Sam Peter who has below average skills to say the least.


I don't think we can fairly judge him by looking at the Peter fight. Maskaev was 39 years old. He was off for some 16 months prior to that fight - much of which he spent recovering from back surgery. He lost badly to Peter, but also landed some very big shots early that could have just as easily resulted in an early KO win.

[Mendoza]

Going by his last fight, he definately was not impressive.
He sucked against Sam Peter who has below average skills to say the least.

Maskeav was too old to rate in the Peter fight. I think Maskeav should be remembered a solid top ten type of fighter, and average alphabet champion who scored some spectular knockouts with his big right hand.. Maskeav’s come back after being Ko'd into oblivion, and switched styles from brawler to boxer. Improving his defense at his age was impressive.

Chin and stamina held him back. If you get the chance, watch Tua vs Maskeav. Maskeav had a prime Tua him beat until he ran out of gas late. If he would have clinched a bit more and slow things down in the final round, the fight would have been his.

IMO, Oleg is a top 100 heavy.

[Flea Man]

Oleg is definitely a top 100 HW (between 90-100)

he had massive power, heart (I mean, to fight the likes of Tua with a chin as bad as his) but was let down by his chin and, as aforementioned, zero % of recupuration abilities.

However, the fact he can punch s hard as he can AND do it against decent opponents means H2H he is a match for some, not many, but some, ATG HW's. Couldn't see him beating the likes of Lewis, Ali, Holmes etc etc but he'd have to be ranked H2H against Patterson and the smaller guys.

In terms of resumu he isn't awful, but he isn't great. His early career was a bit inconsistent, but no doubt he always gave it his best shot.

Not a big fan by any means but have to give the man his dues.

Apparently B-Hop was going to move up to HW and challenge him after the Tarver fight!!! Who would've won, great chin small man against awful chin but BIG puncher....I think Hop would've boxed rings around this version of Maskaev and beaten him on PTS.

[Senya13]

Maskeav had a prime Tua him beat until he ran out of gas late. If he would have clinched a bit more and slow things down in the final round, the fight would have been his.
Not according to official judges. He was ahead only on one scorecard after the 10th round, one was even, and one had Tua ahead.

[Russell]

Not according to official judges. He was ahead only on one scorecard after the 10th round, one was even, and one had Tua ahead.

Judges were wrong then. Maskaev was clearly ahead.

[Senya13]

Whatever, even if Maskaev came out of that round, he needed 2 points in the last round just to have a draw, which was highly unlikely (that he could knock Tua down).

[Russell]

Okay, then he STILL would have won in everyone's eyes except the judges like Rahman did in the second Tua fight. :lol:

[Curtis Lowe]

I think Oleg was a hell of a fighter. As previously mentioned, his management was absolutely horrible. I remember watching him fight (get thrown to the wolves is a more accurate reference) McCall n his 10th pro fight and get slaughtered. He comes back slowly from that to KO Rahman, only to get caught and creamed by K. Johnson. Then his bad management throws him in with a hot Lance Whitaker, only to get creamed in 2 rounds. Later he KOed again by T-Rex Sanders. Then, once again, he comes back slowly to KO Rahman and win a title. Considering all the ups and downs, that's amazing. Sure his chin wasn't the best, but his heart and determination, I greatly admire.

He is a good example that if you keep giving it your best, there's a good chance things will work out.

[Boilermaker]

Those who think that Oleg was badly managed are completely wrong.

He was brilliantly managed. His debut is criticised, yet he won this fight. Would he have done better if he fought a nobody with a losing record?

He losts fights, not because he was thrown to the wolves, but because in reality he simply wasnt quite good enough and didnt have the chin to fight and beat the very top contenders regularly. Saying this, the fact that he always sought the best fights available and that he gave it his best meant that he was able to pull a few upsets and even earn a world title. Compare that management style to the ridiculous style of a Kirk Johnson who was fed the traditional method of cream puffs and handpicked fights, before losing in his world title fights when he stepped up. (by which time he had pretty much lost focus and put on too much weight) Or the career of a Lance Whittaker or Corey Sanders. Both of whom knocked out oleg Maskaev easily but none of which are as highly rated as Oleg.

Oleg was well managed and the fact that he fought the best before he was "ready" (i doubt that is really all that possible) only helped his career. He did very, very well considering his abilities.

[Russell]

Those who think that Oleg was badly managed are completely wrong.



:lol::lol::lol:

Should of stopped right there.

[Renofan]

Thanks for all the replies!.......My opinion about Maskaev was that he had great heart and courage, very good but not great skills, and a questionable chin......I guess in my mind, one word could sum up Maskaev, overachiever.

[Boilermaker]

:lol::lol::lol:

Should of stopped right there.

I would have, but most people fall without question into the traditional line of thinking and might have thought i was being sarcastic.

Glad to see you agree though.

[Russell]

I would have, but most people fall without question into the traditional line of thinking and might have thought i was being sarcastic.

Glad to see you agree though.

The fact that he beat a 20 something and 0 guy speaks volumes about his ability and natural talent, not the fact that he had some subtly genius team behind him who were assured he could win it.

If you knew anything about the mans career you'd know that the people closest to him, this "great" you feel was backing him, all left him with a big hearty "fuck you' after he lost for the second time. They were in it for themselves, not for him, and they never were.

If they bailed after the McCall loss they wouldn't have tried to get him the damned fight to begin with. Setting themselves up for failure?

So much for the tactically brilliant and orchestrated career of Oleg Masaev.

[Boilermaker]

The fact that he beat a 20 something and 0 guy speaks volumes about his ability and natural talent, not the fact that he had some subtly genius team behind him who were assured he could win it.

If you knew anything about the mans career you'd know that the people closest to him, this "great" you feel was backing him, all left him with a big hearty "fuck you' after he lost for the second time. They were in it for themselves, not for him, and they never were.

If they bailed after the McCall loss they wouldn't have tried to get him the damned fight to begin with. Setting themselves up for failure?

So much for the tactically brilliant and orchestrated career of Oleg Masaev.

I know nothing about the actual managers so i will give you the point about them leaving him. I am assuming that Oleg played a large part in picking and agreeing to fight certain fighters at certain stages and that is what i was focussing on.

Oleg lost to McCall because he wasnt as good as him on the night. IN reality, he was always a top 10 contender at best and he didnt really have the chin/defence to become a world champion. Yet, he did become an alphabet champion. Many other more talented fighters had better credentials but couldnt do the same thing. Take a David Tua for example. If you want to be the best, you take the hardest fights you can. Oleg did this, and as a result he overachieved. This idea of taking tune up fights is a dangerous proposition. By the time you reach the top you are starting to get long in the tooth. It is far better to sign the big matches like a Jeff Fenech did for example, than to waste time on tune ups and hand picked fighters. Muhammed Ali is perhaps the greatest example. When he was chasing his second world title, he mixed up with the likes of Norton and Frazier, he didnt waste his time slowly building up to speed or handpicking opponents. Even after the HOlmes loss he fought Berbick who was a top contender. The only way to go through the ranks is to take the hard fights and learn what it takes to reach the top. Especially nowadays, where it is not uncommon for a fighter to lose to a good fighter, come back and beat a string of nobodies and suddenly be a number one contender. Andrew Golota is a great example recently of this technique. Expect Holyfield to do the same soon. Losses against good fighters mean nothing to a career.

Anyway, i am interested, who would you have scheduled his fights against to give him such a better career?

[Russell]

Fighters without iron/good chins, unless there was a solid risk to reward ratio.

Maskaev's chin was mediocre. Coupled with him fading late that was a disastrous combination, one compounded the other.

Seriously, McCall AND Corey Sanders? Two of the best HW chins of the past 20 years? Then Tua, with a great chin and late fight power to boot.

Power wasn't as dangerous a prospect for Maskaev as those chins.

Derrick Jefferson, Alex Stewart, Tshabalala, Rahman, Francis... Every last one of those guys could bang and some were among the hardest heavyweight punchers of the 90's. But they WERE heavyweights, big ones, and they all had iffy stamina, so Oleg's wasn't as big of a problem.

But against Sander's and Tua, who both had huge one shot power, and at times low workrates... It got him in trouble.

[Curtis Lowe]

Those who think that Oleg was badly managed are completely wrong.

He was brilliantly managed. His debut is criticised, yet he won this fight. Would he have done better if he fought a nobody with a losing record?

He losts fights, not because he was thrown to the wolves, but because in reality he simply wasnt quite good enough and didnt have the chin to fight and beat the very top contenders regularly. Saying this, the fact that he always sought the best fights available and that he gave it his best meant that he was able to pull a few upsets and even earn a world title. Compare that management style to the ridiculous style of a Kirk Johnson who was fed the traditional method of cream puffs and handpicked fights, before losing in his world title fights when he stepped up. (by which time he had pretty much lost focus and put on too much weight) Or the career of a Lance Whittaker or Corey Sanders. Both of whom knocked out oleg Maskaev easily but none of which are as highly rated as Oleg.

Oleg was well managed and the fact that he fought the best before he was "ready" (i doubt that is really all that possible) only helped his career. He did very, very well considering his abilities.

OK, so I guess we can agree to disagree.

[rodney]

I don't think we can fairly judge him by looking at the Peter fight. Maskaev was 39 years old. He was off for some 16 months prior to that fight - much of which he spent recovering from back surgery. He lost badly to Peter, but also landed some very big shots early that could have just as easily resulted in an early KO win.

Yes --- he was 39 years old.
But --- Peter really sucks. He is a lazy fat fuck that with very poor skills. My 12 year old looks better in the gym and he has only been training a few weeks.

[Russell]

Yes --- he was 39 years old.
But --- Peter really sucks. He is a lazy fat fuck that with very poor skills. My 12 year old looks better in the gym and he has only been training a few weeks.

How about we put your 12 year old in with Peter then, hmm? :thumbsup :lol:

[asero]

he is done but he can beat valuev

[My2Sense]

Does anyone remember how HBO used to hype Maskaev as if he was the poster boy for an iron chin? Very ironic in retrospect.

Also strange is that he seemed to show a solid chin only when he fought Rahman.

He was definitely mis-managed early, being thrown in with ex-champ Maskaev and then hot prospect Tua, but he seemed to have found his footing with a string of wins against Rahman and Derrick Jefferson on HBO. The Jefferson fight was expected to be a hotly contested war, but Jefferson injured his ankle after being dropped in the first round, and after that was slaughtered. HBO jumped on Maskaev's nuts after that, after which he was promptly upset by unheralded Kirk Johnson. In his "comeback" fight, he was KO'd by some swatting punches by Lance Whitaker, and I remember thinking it looked like he either took a dive or just quit. He put together a string of low-profile wins after that, only to be KO'd in come-from-behind fashion by Corey Sanders. I remember thinking after that that he looked like he had brain damage and shouldn't even be licensed to fight anymore (and I know others shared that sentiment as well). I was shocked to see him once again walk though Rahman's shots and KO him.

As far as his historical ranking goes, he's definitely among the weakest heavyweight champs ever. Lost to McCall, Tua, Kirk Johnson, Corey Sanders, Lance Whitaker, and all by KO. Really, his claim to fame is having Rahman's number, and that's basically it.

[Bummy Davis]

Well he had Rahmans number. Oleg was a strong fighter with good skills but he showed a fragile chin in the amatuers and in some fights, Kirk Johnson, Withaker, Sanders, yet beat the better skilled of the bunch Rahman. He was not always managed correctly MCCall in his 10th fight, then Tua but he always tried and kept coming back and won a title........but he was not one of the best of even his era

[mr. magoo]

Yes --- he was 39 years old.
But --- Peter really sucks. He is a lazy fat fuck that with very poor skills. My 12 year old looks better in the gym and he has only been training a few weeks.


You make some valid points about Peter's abilities. But, my only ascertion is that the Peter fight should not be used as a career defining performance for Maskaev. I think the concensus is fairly consistant in that he was done.

[Boilermaker]

Fighters without iron/good chins, unless there was a solid risk to reward ratio.

Maskaev's chin was mediocre. Coupled with him fading late that was a disastrous combination, one compounded the other.

Seriously, McCall AND Corey Sanders? Two of the best HW chins of the past 20 years? Then Tua, with a great chin and late fight power to boot.

Power wasn't as dangerous a prospect for Maskaev as those chins.

Derrick Jefferson, Alex Stewart, Tshabalala, Rahman, Francis... Every last one of those guys could bang and some were among the hardest heavyweight punchers of the 90's. But they WERE heavyweights, big ones, and they all had iffy stamina, so Oleg's wasn't as big of a problem.

But against Sander's and Tua, who both had huge one shot power, and at times low workrates... It got him in trouble.

The First McCall fight was in February, 1996. At the time Maskaev was a rising young prospect. Presumably he hoped/thought he could become the undisputed champion of the world. At this stage, it is doubtful that Maskaev's camp suspect stamina problems or chin problems. McCall had been defeated on points by Buster Douglas, Tony Tucker, Mike 'the Bounty' Hunter and Orlin Norris. He also only barely won a split decision against Lionel Butler. He did have his upset knockout victory over Lennox Lewis, but after this he struggled with an ancient Larry Holmes,and lost his world title to Lennox Lewis. He was a very big name (had just lost the world title, but you would think from his struggling fights he was there for the taking if Maskaev was good enough). I would say it is a big reward (a win probably put him as the no1 contender and in line for a world title shot vs a minimal risk as mccall had looked to be showing signs of decline, and as the Lewis fight would show in just 5 months time, McCall was eventually ripe for the pickings. If the fight were delayed another 6 or so months, Maskaev would have won the fight and he would have been a genius for taking the fight. Management cant be criticised for Maskaev being not good enough. I dont seem to recall McCalls chin being remembered to be as iron clad as it is today. He was more remembered as a Mike Tyson journeyman whose power finished Lennox Lewis (who the jury was still out on).

Your next complaint is him taking the corey sanders fight. By this time he had already lost to Whittaker and Johnson and was a spent force trying to rise above journeyman status. I dont really see how sanders has this great chin you talk about. Sanders was stopped by Michael Grant and Jerry Ballard! He also had losses to Marion Wilson and Golota. He was below top 10 world class, but had strung together a few wins. If he coudlnt step up to the plate against him, a world title would be the last thing on his mind. He couldnt.

Next criticism is Tua. Tua was an undefeated prospect and came 5 fights after the McCall knock out. If he was going to restablish himself as the best up and coming prospect, common sense says you do so by fighting another similar levelled prospect. This was before the Ike - Tua fight and while Tua had some power, he was a short fighter with an unproven chin, who had been knocked cold in the amateurs. It is only hindsight that tells us that Tua had such a great chin and was probably a lot better than he was rated at the time.

The two Hasim Rahman fights (the second in particular) were big risks that you wouldnt expect Maskaev to pass. Ironically, He passed both tests and the second one is what won him his World title, which he probably only really earned, by beating Rahman the first time.

You say he needs to stay a way from rock solid chins with stamina, but isnt that close to describing Sinan Samil Sam? Which outside of rahman is arguably his next best win. Oleg was never the best fighter in the world. He wasnt even one of the best 5 fighters. He was probably a top 10 fighter. He has a world title (where better fighters like Tua for example) for the simple reason that he was prepared to fight often and to fight the best fighters around. I see no possible justification to say that he was so poorly managed when fighters who outclassed him (Tua, Whittaker and Johnson) and have a good argument that they were better fighters were unable to put together a comparable career. If his management was bad, how bad was their management?

[Russell]

Sam wasn't anything approaching his second best chin.

[rodney]

How about we put your 12 year old in with Peter then, hmm? :thumbsup :lol:

Let put him in with you.
If your nice, I will get him to take it easy on you.
Or else he lays you out cold.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Weak chin, decent skill, and one of the slowest heavyweights i have ever watched. With the exception of Rachman, he has lost every single time he has stepped up in competition. All in all, a good heavyweight when matched against the right opponent. I think his career did a spiral when lost to less opposition such as Sanders( and not the one that beat Klitschko) Lance ''Goofy'' Whitaker and a come from behind stoppage loss against a prime Tua, a fight in which he was winning. He has good wins over Rachman( twice) Tshabalala, Alex Steward and Jefferson though.

[heehoo]

Very talented fighter who never reached his full potential for one reason or another. One of my favs.