Jabbing against southpaws

[RDJ]

See thread title, everybody knows it's not very useful. I spar a southpaw quite often, he's very dangerous (and a bit heavier than me) so obviously I want to keep him occupied. Problem is my jab does not work, his right hand is in the way. Jab-Hooking around it (Cuban style powerless left hook with the thumb area) worked for a while but he figured that out pretty quick. Today I just doubled and tripled up on the right hand and that worked very well. It kinda makes it a right hand jab from orthodox stance, since I can't really load up when I throw three in a row. He blocked the first one, second one got through, then his guard closed up and I was able to hook around it either up or downstairs.

I know the right hand is key when fighting a southpaw, but I wasn't just throwing right hands I was sort of jabbing with them.

Any tips from the experienced guys here? I know it worked, and at this moment he did not really have an answer. He told me after sparring that that was exactly how he lost his last match. But knowing him he will find an answer, and I want to be prepared :D

[RDJ]

Did I mention that I hate southpaws btw? MagnificentMatt if you read this, nothing personal, I just hate you and everything you stand for :D

[HairyHighlander]

See thread title, everybody knows it's not very useful. I spar a southpaw quite often, he's very dangerous (and a bit heavier than me) so obviously I want to keep him occupied. Problem is my jab does not work, his right hand is in the way. Jab-Hooking around it (Cuban style powerless left hook with the thumb area) worked for a while but he figured that out pretty quick. Today I just doubled and tripled up on the right hand and that worked very well. It kinda makes it a right hand jab from orthodox stance, since I can't really load up when I throw three in a row. He blocked the first one, second one got through, then his guard closed up and I was able to hook around it either up or downstairs.

I know the right hand is key when fighting a southpaw, but I wasn't just throwing right hands I was sort of jabbing with them.

Any tips from the experienced guys here? I know it worked, and at this moment he did not really have an answer. He told me after sparring that that was exactly how he lost his last match. But knowing him he will find an answer, and I want to be prepared :D

Dunno if i am one of the more experienced but maybe parry his right jab's with your right as you step to the left countering with a jab then right over the top maybe then pivot 12-3 with a lefthook ? Parry his right jabs with ya own left or right glove then a straight right over the top then a left jab away or to keep at range when stepping/pivoting to the left. This is i mean is if you are wanting to counter punch him....it would be my plan.

I liked all the feints and constant movement etc left to right even when out of range so you can draw them to you, maybe having a look at his movement ( easier said than done i know :lol: ) Being tall for the weight they came head on anyway. Not sure i would throw several straight rights fighting a southpaw, as u said and i dont doubt it work's, i would feel open myself.

Would be throwing lots of feints and draws when stepping to the right, maybe single rights with a right hook.then tie them up, depending on the hooks success. Lots of straight shots to the chest. Jab Lead Jab away when moving right of them Feinting jab to body come over the top. I would be trying to keep it simple, as you says they is well awkward.

Not sure if this helps, has made me think how i would deal with them myself though......how is your height and reach compared to him ? Can you come inside him ?

Cheers

[RDJ]

Dunno if i am one of the more experienced but maybe parry his right jab's with your right as you step to the left countering with a jab then right over the top maybe then pivot 12-3 with a lefthook ? Parry his right jabs with ya own left or right glove then a straight right over the top then a left jab away or to keep at range when stepping/pivoting to the left. This is i mean is if you are wanting to counter punch him....it would be my plan.

I can't counter against him, he's too active and too dangerous. If I wait for him to lead he'll be first all the time and I'll be either blocking or running. I can't get to him that way, his left hand is too powerful and I want no part of his body punches either :D

Of course I do try to counter whenever I see an opening or spot a flaw, but as a strategy it doesn't work for me against this guy.

I liked all the feints and constant movement etc left to right even when out of range so you can draw them to you, maybe having a look at his movement ( easier said than done i know :lol: ) Being tall for the weight they came head on anyway. Not sure i would throw several straight rights fighting a southpaw, as u said and i dont doubt it work's, i would feel open myself.

Feints work as well sometimes, but he doesn't buy into my feints. Sharp fella (or worthless feinter) :lol:

When I throw the multiple right hands I angle off to my left, avoiding his straight left, while being able to cover with my left for his right hook. While going left it's easy to throw a left hook, and the straight rights close up his guard if I aim at the nose, thus creating an opening for that same left hook.

Would be throwing lots of feints and draws when stepping to the right, maybe single rights with a right hook.then tie them up, depending on the hooks success. Lots of straight shots to the chest. Jab Lead Jab away when moving right of them Feinting jab to body come over the top. I would be trying to keep it simple, as you says they is well awkward.

I'm not moving to my right against this character, his left hand is scary :D

Not sure if this helps, has made me think how i would deal with them myself though......how is your height and reach compared to him ? Can you come inside him ?

Yeah it helped, I already tried variations of some of your ideas, but feinting is probably something that can be explored more.

I'm 5'8.5" (I always claimed 5'9" but I may have shrunk since high school), he's about 5'10", not too big of a difference. I'm a light welter, he's a welter or even light middle.

Reach will be about equal, I have no problem getting into punching range. I can go inside, and I do that sometimes because I generally like being there. It's the half distance that I fear, he packs quite a punch in his left.

[McGrain]

You tried jabbing stiff to the body?

Jab hard to the body then move and/or look for something upstairs. If it works for you (will depend on how quick you are and how well disguised and of course how quick he is - and he sounds like a quick thinker) you can also use it to solve your feinting problem.

If your just trying to get through these weeks with him, i'd consider adding it to your bag of tricks. Actually, if you are favouring moving left, and he is slower than you, you might have joy with a hook to the body as you are stepping out of range, too?

[TheRock49]

Dont parry with the right fighting a southpaw. If youre parrying the jab with your right, then his left hasnt swung yet and your right is partially busy from the parry, so he'll have a shot.

[TheRock49]

You tried jabbing stiff to the body?

Jab hard to the body then move and/or look for something upstairs. If it works for you (will depend on how quick you are and how well disguised and of course how quick he is - and he sounds like a quick thinker) you can also use it to solve your feinting problem.

If your just trying to get through these weeks with him, i'd consider adding it to your bag of tricks. Actually, if you are favouring moving left, and he is slower than you, you might have joy with a hook to the body as you are stepping out of range, too?

People do that to me and I hate it. Even if I have my arm down and ready it causes me to hit my hip bone with my elbow. I always have a big ass bruise on my hip bone. I do as Im typing this.

[McGrain]

Rock, you a shouthpaw yourself?

[HairyHighlander]

Cools,from what you have said he seems a bit of a banger and all round quite "cute" and comfortable. No much i can really add, i guess more sparring will eventually find out where you both stand or not.

Its just sparring but it can also get damn frustrating when not being able to get your shots off. Thats the best thing about sparring though, when you got much bigger or faster opponents its either sink or swim. Nothing more satisfying than holding your own when they are outsizing you etc.

Just stick tight to him, use the rounds as practising your pressure, hooks and uppercut combo's. Make it your aim to be all over him and not let him make that half distance as u have says u feel comfy inside

Best of luck

:thumbsup

[HairyHighlander]

Dont parry with the right fighting a southpaw. If youre parrying the jab with your right, then his left hasnt swung yet and your right is partially busy from the parry, so he'll have a shot.


Good call, saved me taking one flush :good

[RDJ]

You tried jabbing stiff to the body?

Jab hard to the body then move and/or look for something upstairs. If it works for you (will depend on how quick you are and how well disguised and of course how quick he is - and he sounds like a quick thinker) you can also use it to solve your feinting problem.

Yes that works, jab (or even feint) low and throw the right hand upstairs. Fuck I forgot all about that one. The biggest problem though is keeping him occupied, the jab doesn't work. That means he has initiative, and I prefer to have that myself. But you are right, if he buys into my feints I'll have him thinking as well.

If your just trying to get through these weeks with him, i'd consider adding it to your bag of tricks.

Definitely, I had success with it in the past but for some reason I haven't done it in recent sparring sessions with him. I spar him all the time it's a gym mate, so he'll still be in my chest in a year :!:

Actually, if you are favouring moving left, and he is slower than you, you might have joy with a hook to the body as you are stepping out of range, too?

He is not slower than me so things come with a certain risk. What you just described is actually what he does against me (in mirror that is). His left hook downstairs is feared in our gym. I counter him sometimes but most of the time he's out of range already.

[RDJ]

Dont parry with the right fighting a southpaw. If youre parrying the jab with your right, then his left hasnt swung yet and your right is partially busy from the parry, so he'll have a shot.

I never cross hands parrying, learned that the hard way :!:

[McGrain]

He sounds like a horrible bastard. Horrible. I'd consider trying to bring him onto you, jab at his throat and upper chest so you don't have to stoop, if he drops his guard and you are quick enough, hook him upstairs and when you step left consider the hook to the body your covering punch, though he might start to stiff-jab or even hook you if he reads this. But mixing up to the body will do you good because you can make new feints off it.

But TBH chum, his combination of size and speed sounds pretty grim.

[RDJ]

He sounds like a horrible bastard. Horrible.

He's actually a very cool guy, both in and outside the ring. The type that apologizes if you walk into something :lol:

But in boxing terms, yeah he's a bastard. Strong, good stamina, a thinking boxer and last but not least a southpaw.

I'd consider trying to bring him onto you, jab at his throat and upper chest so you don't have to stoop, if he drops his guard and you are quick enough, hook him upstairs and when you step left consider the hook to the body your covering punch, though he might start to stiff-jab or even hook you if he reads this. But mixing up to the body will do you good because you can make new feints off it.

I will apply your advice Saturday morning. Saturday afternoon I will post a picture of my face in the Lounge and if it shows a shiner, a broken nose or stitches you will be held fully responsible :D

But TBH chum, his combination of size and speed sounds pretty grim.

It's a challenge. Sometimes I get to him, like the last two rounds tonight, and sometimes he has me thinking all night about what to do next time. It's fun. Dangerous, but fun.

[RDJ]

Something that also worked was jab upstairs, right hand downstairs, left hook upstairs. He's like Winky, he blocks a lot unless you get very creative. Both the jab and the straight right would be blocked, the left hook lands.

[McGrain]

I will apply your advice Saturday morning. Saturday afternoon I will post a picture of my face in the Lounge and if it shows a shiner, a broken nose or stitches you will be held fully responsible :D
.


:lol:

In that case let me add, most crucially, "don't forget to duck."

[Ingar]

Did I mention that I hate southpaws btw?

Well, fuck you then!

I always like doing the right hook->left cross combo against orthodox fighters, so you can just switch that tip around I guess. Now that I'm a heavyweight and go up against fighters a head taller than me, everything is a bitch though.
Everything except from the body is "unhittable" right of the bat.
I've never, ever had any noteworthy success jabbing as a southpaw against an orthodox fighter though, just so that's said.

[RDJ]

Well, fuck you then!

Here's another one of these despicable creatures :-(

I always like doing the right hook->left cross combo against orthodox fighters, so you can just switch that tip around I guess. Now that I'm a heavyweight and go up against fighters a head taller than me, everything is a bitch though.

I like the mirrored version of that one a lot. I like many combinations against southpaws (whatever hits their ugly faces) but I need them occupied first :D

Everything except from the body is "unhittable" right of the bat.
I've never, ever had any noteworthy success jabbing as a southpaw against an orthodox fighter though, just so that's said.

He's not very successful with his either, but I rely on my jab much more than him hence my quest for alternatives. I need to keep him thinking, otherwise he'll give me hell. I do need to aim at his body a bit more.

[jones1]

well theres a few things that works. the first and most obvious would be jab until he gets comfortable cuffing it with his right hand and then fire a feint and then a fast stiff jab while hes cuffing your feint. he'll only fall for that maybe 2 or 3 times tho. another one that works is using your footwork: when your on the offensive step in between his feet so that your left is in between his feet. this makes a hole for a jab or a straight right. don't stay here too long tho as it leaves you open for his left hand. and finally the one i usually use that works every time is: bend at the waist slightly to fire in between his gloves and when he adjusts then stand straighter and fire a jab as you would against someone in a traditional stance. mix up the bending and standing straight and you should be able to land a jab anytime you want. it's kind of hard to explain through words but for an excellent example watch pernell whitakers jab against orthodox fighters. he bent at the waist and made holes which is the number one reason IMO why his jab worked so effectively.

[jones1]

just read some of the other posts in this thread and just wanted to add: you said he blocks a lot like winky which im going to assume means he does a lot more blocking then moving his head. I spar a southpaw who is similar to this and I've found the bending at the waist to find openings works especially well to set up a straight right or a left hook or anything else for that matter. and when i say bend at the waist i dont mean bend down to throw a jab to the body i mean bend slightly so that your left fits nicely through his gloves, it works wonders and im not sure why this isnt a known universal rule against southpaws. make sure you keep your right high when you do this or he'll catch you with a left which can be quite nasty if you bend right into it.

[RDJ]

well theres a few things that works. the first and most obvious would be jab until he gets comfortable cuffing it with his right hand and then fire a feint and then a fast stiff jab while hes cuffing your feint. he'll only fall for that maybe 2 or 3 times tho. another one that works is using your footwork: when your on the offensive step in between his feet so that your left is in between his feet. this makes a hole for a jab or a straight right. don't stay here too long tho as it leaves you open for his left hand. and finally the one i usually use that works every time is: bend at the waist slightly to fire in between his gloves and when he adjusts then stand straighter and fire a jab as you would against someone in a traditional stance. mix up the bending and standing straight and you should be able to land a jab anytime you want. it's kind of hard to explain through words but for an excellent example watch pernell whitakers jab against orthodox fighters. he bent at the waist and made holes which is the number one reason IMO why his jab worked so effectively.

You mean with an "up-jab" (heard that phrase a few times)? Like Mayweather does for example? Half lead uppercut half jab, things like that? I understand what you mean I think, I should look for different angles for the jab.

Makes sense.

[RDJ]

Mayweather for example "feints" like that, by simply moving his jab arm in a different angle. His opponent never knows where it'll be coming from or if it's coming at all. I like that, must try in sparring. I was looking for a jab alternative but the more obvious solution is to try to improve the jab first. And it is missing different angles, I'm being too predictable with it. I double up with it, feint it, even go to the body with it sometimes, but the angle is predictable.

[jones1]

You mean with an "up-jab" (heard that phrase a few times)? Like Mayweather does for example? Half lead uppercut half jab, things like that? I understand what you mean I think, I should look for different angles for the jab.

Makes sense.
eh not the up-jab. i always thought the up jab was the one thrown from the hip or a bit higher, kinda like a larry holmes jab. is that what you mean? i meant bend your back so that your left fits through his gloves. more like a whitaker then a mayweather or holmes jab. its really hard to explain without showing it but from experience it works very well.

[RDJ]

just read some of the other posts in this thread and just wanted to add: you said he blocks a lot like winky which im going to assume means he does a lot more blocking then moving his head. I spar a southpaw who is similar to this and I've found the bending at the waist to find openings works especially well to set up a straight right or a left hook or anything else for that matter. and when i say bend at the waist i dont mean bend down to throw a jab to the body i mean bend slightly so that your left fits nicely through his gloves, it works wonders and im not sure why this isnt a known universal rule against southpaws. make sure you keep your right high when you do this or he'll catch you with a left which can be quite nasty if you bend right into it.

I understand what you mean and indeed he is not the upper body movement type. I think it'll work quite well, and I will definitely try it next saturday :good

[avk47]

Try punching from pivoting to the right. Let him come onto you, or alternatively, come into him with head movement, then when he throws a straight punch, pivot to the right, away from his left. There are many options there: straight right to the had, left hook to the plexus, or even come up with an uppercut through his guard. If you catch him, continue pressing it, but pivot around his body, quickly left, and then back to right again to keep him guessing. This has some good openings for body punches.

[avk47]

Well, fuck you then!

I always like doing the right hook->left cross combo against orthodox fighters, so you can just switch that tip around I guess. Now that I'm a heavyweight and go up against fighters a head taller than me, everything is a bitch though.
Everything except from the body is "unhittable" right of the bat.
I've never, ever had any noteworthy success jabbing as a southpaw against an orthodox fighter though, just so that's said.

You're now a heavyweight? are you actually still competing at that weight, or just crosstraining for football?

[aj415]

Foot work is important. I always try to touch my lead foot with his, helps me find my range, also like you pointed out the right hand is key, I keep my lead foot on the outside of his, my right hand finds home this way.

Once you land the right with success, it opens up your game, he'll be expecting it, and then you can act like your throwing another one but full force it to the body.

If I have trouble landing the right, another thing I do is something I have seen Mayweather does.. I crouch, hard jab to the body, move, and reset. Crouch, jab hard jab to the body, move, reset. Crouch... and feint the job to the body, his hands should drop a bit.. throw that right with mean intentions upstairs from that crouch and a double hook downstairs then up.

From that point on things can open up, when you crouch he won't know if your gonna jab or lead right.

[RDJ]

eh not the up-jab. i always thought the up jab was the one thrown from the hip or a bit higher, kinda like a larry holmes jab. is that what you mean?

I thought the upjab was more a jab with a bit of an upward angle, not with the hand dropped. Anyway I get what you mean. And it's rather logical, he's in a tight guard so I need to find angles to slip through, or create possibilities to break through by making him change guard. It's what I did with the right hand tonight basically, because the right hand is in a better angle to land. But I can sneak the jab in from pretty much the same angle by twisting the shoulder and body a little. Or from down below by doing what I thought was the upjab. Or a bit from the side and change it into a left hook if needed.

i meant bend your back so that your left fits through his gloves. more like a whitaker then a mayweather or holmes jab. its really hard to explain without showing it but from experience it works very well.

We mean the exact same thing and this is basically what I was looking for. Much appreciated!

[MagnificentMatt]

Even as a southpaw..the jab is still prolly one of my best weapons, even if I cant land it, I still feint with it and throw it out to set every thing else up.. But if it isnt landing at first, going to the body than double up to the head, also use it as a counter often, or to "beat" them to the punch.(parrying just slighltly and almost sliding it over theres works as well)

I feel its still important to get a rhythm and set up your other shots.. Doubles and triples, or a feint than a real one work for me pretty often.

...Not trying to sound like an ass but Im kinda fast so I think that helps..(one of the first couple times I sparred at the last gym I was at the main thing people commented on was how I was faster than the guy that was 10 lbs lighter than me)

In short, feint with it, go to the body, double it, triple it, and LATERAL MOVEMENT.

[TheRock49]

Rock, you a shouthpaw yourself?

Me? No, I personally prefer fighting them though. My first sparring partner was southpaw so I guess I've gotten comfortable fighting them.

[ralphc]

Well, fuck you then!

I always like doing the right hook->left cross combo against orthodox fighters, so you can just switch that tip around I guess. Now that I'm a heavyweight and go up against fighters a head taller than me, everything is a bitch though.
Everything except from the body is "unhittable" right of the bat.
I've never, ever had any noteworthy success jabbing as a southpaw against an orthodox fighter though, just so that's said.



If your opponents are a head taller than you, then it would be a good idea if you learn how to fight small. As to how you fight small is a matter of style. If you have not "had any noteworthy success jabbing as a southpaw against an orthodox fighter" then it can only be concluded that your style needs some improvement. An effective jab will give even the top boxers in the world some problems to solve, orthodox or southpaw. As to how you should make your jab more effective is contingent on the manner in which you jab and what you do immediately after it. A man who fights small jabs in a different way than a man who fights tall. Muhammad Ali, for example, was always trying to keep Joe Frazier at arms length. Joe Frazier needed to get in close. Frazier had his way of doing it, you will have yours.

[Machiavelli]

If your opponents are a head taller than you, then it would be a good idea if you learn how to fight small. As to how you fight small is a matter of style. If you have not "had any noteworthy success jabbing as a southpaw against an orthodox fighter" then it can only be concluded that your style needs some improvement. An effective jab will give even the top boxers in the world some problems to solve, orthodox or southpaw. As to how you should make your jab more effective is contingent on the manner in which you jab and what you do immediately after it. A man who fights small jabs in a different way than a man who fights tall. Muhammad Ali, for example, was always trying to keep Joe Frazier at arms length. Joe Frazier needed to get in close. Frazier had his way of doing it, you will have yours.

Boy, you sure did write a lot just to say nothing.

[ralphc]

Boy, you sure did write a lot just to say nothing.


When I was young there were two small heavies who were excellent boxers, Floyd Patterson and Eddie Machen. If you had seen them fight you would know that they had very different styles. The advice a trainer would give one man would be different to what he would give the other simply because of style. Look on this forum you will see postings giving out specific advice without knowing who they are talking to nor having any knowledge of recipients style. Such advice has no legitimacy whatsoever.

Once a kid learns the fundamentals, it is then time to develop and refine his style. Is he a boxer or a slugger? Does he fight tall or small? Does he have fast hands or slow? How is his footwork? Is he naturally aggressive or defensive? Is he good at reading opponents? Can he make adjustments and think on his feet? A competent trainer has all these questions in the back of his mind because he knows that he has to figure out how to work around a kid's limitations. If the kid I was training didn't have an effective jab, then I would figure out a way to make it better.

[TheRock49]

I like how 50% of your post start with "when I was young" and "now a days".....

[RDJ]

Look on this forum you will see postings giving out specific advice without knowing who they are talking to nor having any knowledge of recipients style. Such advice has no legitimacy whatsoever.

Really? All I see is people giving opinions about things that worked for them. It's up to the person asking the question how that fits into his specific situation.

[ralphc]

I like how 50% of your post start with "when I was young" and "now a days".....



In boxing times have changed but sadly not for the better. When kids have to resort to getting advice from some internet forum, you have to know that the training they are getting isn't worth a shit.

[RDJ]

In boxing times have changed but sadly not for the better. When kids have to resort to getting advice from some internet forum, you have to know that the training they are getting isn't worth a shit.

I have a good trainer but I come here for additional advice and / or opinions. Look if that's how you feel about this place and all you're going to contribute is negativity then seriously what the fuck are you still doing here?

And that in a thread that has nothing to do with "modern" training methods, it was a question 100% oldschool boxing related. You could have opted to share your infinite wisdom with us mal-trained and misinformed youngsters but instead you chose to be a grumpy old man again. Shame.

[MagnificentMatt]

In boxing times have changed but sadly not for the better. When kids have to resort to getting advice from some internet forum, you have to know that the training they are getting isn't worth a shit.


The hell are you here for than, to bitch?

..I think my trainers fine, I just like to get opinions and critique on things..

[tri-pod]

In boxing times have changed but sadly not for the better. When kids have to resort to getting advice from some internet forum, you have to know that the training they are getting isn't worth a shit.


nobody is making you post in the training forum. you should go and dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out you whinney miserable cunt.

[tri-pod]

im southpaw so everything i say just mirror it.

a good jab is key and usually the best weapon you have against a mirrored opponent. (orthodox against southpaw,,, vice versa) it is how you keep timing and a very good way to bust up their shoulder. what i tend to do is throw five jabs. two rapid succession follwed by one single one and then two quick rapid succession again. mix it up anyway you want.(5 was just an example. you could do 10 3 7 whatever you fee like. just switch it up so you dont get timed yourself.) i do many rounds of nothing but jab.

if you can get your jab good it will help with timing. an easy way to control a fight and keep your foot on the outside leaving your enemy open for right hooks and straight lefts.

so instead of finding different weapons to utilize besides your job simply strengthen your jab.

[TheRock49]

..I think my trainers fine, I just like to get opinions and critique on things..

Same here. My trainer was the womens WBE middleweight belt holder a year ago, so I think she knows some stuff...

[Iceveins]

I've never had any success with my jab against a southpaw. Ever. And I don't think I ever will. Just doesn't work for me.

[Machiavelli]

When I was young there were two small heavies who were excellent boxers, Floyd Patterson and Eddie Machen. If you had seen them fight you would know that they had very different styles. The advice a trainer would give one man would be different to what he would give the other simply because of style. Look on this forum you will see postings giving out specific advice without knowing who they are talking to nor having any knowledge of recipients style. Such advice has no legitimacy whatsoever.

Once a kid learns the fundamentals, it is then time to develop and refine his style. Is he a boxer or a slugger? Does he fight tall or small? Does he have fast hands or slow? How is his footwork? Is he naturally aggressive or defensive? Is he good at reading opponents? Can he make adjustments and think on his feet? A competent trainer has all these questions in the back of his mind because he knows that he has to figure out how to work around a kid's limitations. If the kid I was training didn't have an effective jab, then I would figure out a way to make it better.

I was referring to the fact that you wrote all that and didn't offer one bit of technical or, for that fact, actual advice. You just tell people of your experiences, and leave it at that. Maybe, just maybe, try to give some type of advice about what you're saying. How should he go about refining his style? How should he go about working on his jab? All you did was say Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier didn't have the same style or use the jab the same way. Wow, quite the keen eye you have there, Captain Obvious.

In the context of the question, he did not ask what style he should use while fighting. He did not ask if he should be a swarmer, a slugger, etc. etc., he simply asked if anyone had any advice about getting his jab off more effectively against a southpaw.

All you ever do is continually tell everyone how great the old-school is, how back in your day, blah blah blah. At least give some credible input, rather than spewing nonsense everywhere you turn.

Wait...are you pudding?

[MagnificentMatt]

I was referring to the fact that you wrote all that and didn't offer one bit of technical or, for that fact, actual advice. You just tell people of your experiences, and leave it at that. Maybe, just maybe, try to give some type of advice about what you're saying. How should he go about refining his style? How should he go about working on his jab? All you did was say Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier didn't have the same style or use the jab the same way. Wow, quite the keen eye you have there, Captain Obvious.

In the context of the question, he did not ask what style he should use while fighting. He did not ask if he should be a swarmer, a slugger, etc. etc., he simply asked if anyone had any advice about getting his jab off more effectively against a southpaw.

All you ever do is continually tell everyone how great the old-school is, how back in your day, blah blah blah. At least give some credible input, rather than spewing nonsense everywhere you turn.

Wait...are you pudding?

Yeah, Id say in general..not a very good poster for the training forum...

I like how everyone overlooked what I tryed to throw out for the southpaw jab tips! haha

[RDJ]

Yeah, Id say in general..not a very good poster for the training forum...

Totally fucking worthless.

I like how everyone overlooked what I tryed to throw out for the southpaw jab tips! haha

I didn't overlook it mate, I just haven't replied to the on topic posts yet. I'll try some things tomorrow first :D

[MagnificentMatt]

Totally fucking worthless.



I didn't overlook it mate, I just haven't replied to the on topic posts yet. I'll try some things tomorrow first :D

Ah, aight, lemme now how things go..What you mean worthless, me saying that, or ol Ralphie?

haha

[RDJ]

Ah, aight, lemme now how things go..What you mean worthless, me saying that, or ol Ralphie?

The latter, he never gives advice he just tells other people how clueless they are.

[Kolya]

See thread title, everybody knows it's not very useful. I spar a southpaw quite often, he's very dangerous (and a bit heavier than me) so obviously I want to keep him occupied. Problem is my jab does not work, his right hand is in the way. Jab-Hooking around it (Cuban style powerless left hook with the thumb area) worked for a while but he figured that out pretty quick. Today I just doubled and tripled up on the right hand and that worked very well. It kinda makes it a right hand jab from orthodox stance, since I can't really load up when I throw three in a row. He blocked the first one, second one got through, then his guard closed up and I was able to hook around it either up or downstairs.

I know the right hand is key when fighting a southpaw, but I wasn't just throwing right hands I was sort of jabbing with them.

Any tips from the experienced guys here? I know it worked, and at this moment he did not really have an answer. He told me after sparring that that was exactly how he lost his last match. But knowing him he will find an answer, and I want to be prepared :D


Actually, I think jabbing against southpaws is really useful. But yes, if you can be faster with your right hand, use it as a lead and a kind of probe that isn't as easy to see coming as a normal straight right, I would imagine it would land much more regularly. It works well for me even against right handers.

[Machiavelli]

Back on subject, have you tried jabbing after you throw the right? Either lead right, then follow up with the jab, or 1-2-1. I've found both can be effective ways of getting off your jab against the southpaw. Also, if you're adept enough at it, jab off the hook, too.

[MagnificentMatt]

Another thing, if he is throwing his jab a lot, slip to the outside and shoot your right hand, either upstairs or to the body, but you can dig to the body and follow up with a hook like this if you are quick...The opposite works for me, so..:-D

[RDJ]

Everyone thanks for the advice it has been very useful. Training starts in an hour so we'll see what I make of it :)

[RDJ]

We had a centralized training today, various gyms came to our gym, so it was very crowded and I only sparred one round. Perhaps Monday.

[ralphc]

Did anybody see Urango vs. Ngoudjo? This was a classic match, not only between contrasting styles, but contrasting flaws in style. Urango is a southpaw with limited ability, but lots of heart. Ngoudjo has lots of talent, but found that at the early stages of his career he could win easily so he never fully developed his skills. It was obvious that Ngoudjo needed to keep Urango at the end of his jab given that he had the height and reach advantage. Why didn't he do it? He never learned how to impose his jab on an aggressive southpaw like Urango. How is it done? Jab and pivot, an old expression which has fallen into disuse. That is what a southpaw will do to you if you aren't careful. Calzaghe did a very good variation on that theme against Lacy. Of course this is all a question of style. Jab and pivot is something Ngoudjo could learn and put into practise if he was so inclined. Urango is to slow and too uncoordinated to even thing about things like that. However, despite all his deficiencies Urango has a better style than Ngoudjo. He knows his limitations and has figured out the best way to overcome them. As a southpaw he doesn't have an effective jab, but for him jabbing is not important inasmuch as he is too slow. What Urango should do is what he did, move his head a bit, bull his way in while throwing lots of hard shots. There is a good chance some of those shots will land and some of them did.

[RDJ]

Now that can be useful. Can you give an example of a fight in which it is done correctly?

[MagnificentMatt]

Decent post by Ralph, but unfortunately I didnt get to see that fight...Ill try and see it.

[GPater11093]

Now that can be useful. Can you give an example of a fight in which it is done correctly?

like Ralph says Calzaghe-Lacy

but Calzaghe does it to Lacy so jsut do it the other way round

another example i just watched just now is Pryor against Arguello I know its 2 orthodox fighters but pryor jabs and pivots well.

[ralphc]

like Ralph says Calzaghe-Lacy

but Calzaghe does it to Lacy so jsut do it the other way round

another example i just watched just now is Pryor against Arguello I know its 2 orthodox fighters but pryor jabs and pivots well.



Aaron Pryor did everything well. As I recall he only only lost about one fight, and it is hard to imagine how he would ever lose. The way he dismantled Alexis Arguello, himself a great fighter, was extraordinary. Arguello had both the height and reach advantage, yet Pryor easily neutralized it. Arguello was a great body puncher, but every time he tried it on Pryor he got hit with a combination. They had two fights and both of them are a must see for aspiring young boxers. These are two fights that Hermann Ngoudjo should have studied more carefully.

[GPater11093]

yeh pryor was a brillaint fighter

he lsot way after his prime after geting involved with drugs

watching the first few round sof Arguello pryor i wondered how it could have lasted to the 14th just shows his stamina of both

arguello was past it but still great

[aj415]

Now that can be useful. Can you give an example of a fight in which it is done correctly?

Chavez-Whitaker. Course the southpaw is the one to watch in this case.

Also on a more general note I thought Clottey was doing a good job of implementing a strategy of taking apart the southpaw Judah, landing straight rights at will from round 3 and on.

[Vantage_West]

moove sharply to your left. always throw a jab even if it is to a southpaw or on the gloves. it loads up your reverse hand. just becuase it isnt landing doesnt mean it isnt effective.

[SweetScience]

My trainer told me that making the jab hit against the southpaw is very hard. However he told me to use the jab as a way of setting up the right rather than making it land. Worked for me a couple of times during sparring.

[ralphc]

Chavez-Whitaker. Course the southpaw is the one to watch in this case.

Also on a more general note I thought Clottey was doing a good job of implementing a strategy of taking apart the southpaw Judah, landing straight rights at will from round 3 and on.



Too bad the judges weren't watching the southpaw! Julio Caesar Chavez was obviously over matched against Pernell Whitaker. It was amazing how easily Whitaker hit him. This is a great example of how a good boxer like Whitaker can read an opponent and figure out what he is going to do before he does it.

[MagnificentMatt]

Too bad the judges weren't watching the southpaw! Julio Caesar Chavez was obviously over matched against Pernell Whitaker. It was amazing how easily Whitaker hit him. This is a great example of how a good boxer like Whitaker can read an opponent and figure out what he is going to do before he does it.

Yeah, Pea definitely had a good mind in the ring..


Most of his fights are a good example of jabbing with a southpaw too, haha.

[RDJ]

I'll watch a few Whitaker fights tonight, after I temporarily put aside my southpaw hatred :yep

[MagnificentMatt]

I'll watch a few Whitaker fights tonight, after I temporarily put aside my southpaw hatred :yep

..I got a career set.. :-)

[TommyV]

I tend not to jab much against southpaws. Too difficult to get past the right hand and more often than not they'll just jab over the top of you. If you don't get tight enough with your shoulder after throwing the jab your going to get caught with a right hook occassionally aswell.

My key to beating a southpaw has always been the right hand, so I tend to adapt my style and try and pressure the guy, keeping up my head movement and making sure I'm moving around and not coming in a straight line and then try and throw some lead rights and work the body.

As McGrain said earlier on, jabbing stiff to the body is a good idea. Gives you more of a target to hit when you throw it to the inside and it can open a guy up top. If I jab to the body and intend to follow up, I usually keep on my toes so I can quickly step back and then shuffle left and through the left hook.

[RDJ]

Sparred the guy again tonight, but we were rotating so never longer than a minute. Tried to sneak the jab in through his guard and had a little bit of success with it but I need more time to practice against him in the ring. Shitty thing is that he used to be pretty stiff in the upper body, winky style, but he started to slip and duck out of fucking nowhere.

To be continued, I'll try all the suggestions in this thread.

[Ingar]

You're now a heavyweight? are you actually still competing at that weight, or just crosstraining for football?

Mainly crosstraining, but the plan is to compete again as well when I have the time.

[achillesthegreat]

Put your left foot inside his right foot. You are in a nice line to jab then. Beware of the hook over the jab.

Put your left foot outside his right foot. You are slightly off track to fire but you can touch him to line him up for a heavy right hand.

Southpaws are beaten with footwork. Extra distance is created between you and your opponent cos of your stance. The way to get around this is by putting yourself in position. You put your self in position with FOOTWORK.

[RDJ]

Put your left foot inside his right foot. You are in a nice line to jab then. Beware of the hook over the jab.

Put your left foot outside his right foot. You are slightly off track to fire but you can touch him to line him up for a heavy right hand.

Southpaws are beaten with footwork. Extra distance is created between you and your opponent cos of your stance. The way to get around this is by putting yourself in position. You put your self in position with FOOTWORK.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the advice.

[RDJ]

I sparred him again today, for 10 rounds in a row so I got to practice what I was told. Jab to the body wasn't really successful because he kept countering me, but he bought into feints to the body which set up the right hand and left hook upstairs. I did however get my jab working thanks to what jones1 and achilles said. I placed my foot between his and was able to land it a few times, he blocked many but it did keep him occupied. When I wanted to set up the right I moved to my left, it worked perfectly. Seriously the guy is hell when you let him take the initiative so I was very pleased with that. My jab made it a tactical session instead of a brawl.

Thanks a bunch everyone, I'll try more things tomorrow if he's there again but I'm not sure because he injured his elbow by overreaching.

[MagnificentMatt]

I sparred him again today, for 10 rounds in a row so I got to practice what I was told. Jab to the body wasn't really successful because he kept countering me, but he bought into feints to the body which set up the right hand and left hook upstairs. I did however get my jab working thanks to what jones1 and achilles said. I placed my foot between his and was able to land it a few times, he blocked many but it did keep him occupied. When I wanted to set up the right I moved to my left, it worked perfectly. Seriously the guy is hell when you let him take the initiative so I was very pleased with that. My jab made it a tactical session instead of a brawl.

Thanks a bunch everyone, I'll try more things tomorrow if he's there again but I'm not sure because he injured his elbow by overreaching.

Damn, you must have been doin a few things right, haha.

[RDJ]

Damn, you must have been doin a few things right, haha.

I never noticed anything during sparring so I doubt it :)

Sparring itself was satisfying though :happy

[GPater11093]

i was sparring a southpaw the other day and it was harder than i remembered

to counter his jab i parryed with my left and landed my right cross all night long

[RDJ]

I suck at parrying with the left for some reason. I kept parrying his right with ease though, which for the most part nullified it.

[Flea Man]

Parry with your right and land your own jab.....or parry with the right, feign a jab and throw the right hand over the top.

That's what I do.

[ralphc]

Mainly crosstraining, but the plan is to compete again as well when I have the time.



Since you are playing football you must be tough enough to deal with larger men. Weight divisions exist for a reason, smaller guys usually can't take a hit from naturally larger men. Of course there are always exceptions and it would appear that you might be one of them. Learn the right moves and you will find that the heavies are slower and easier to hit.

[MagnificentMatt]

Parry with your right and land your own jab.....or parry with the right, feign a jab and throw the right hand over the top.

That's what I do.

I think parrying with the left would be more effective..

Coming from a southpaw, I parry jabs with my right, and you can put a jab right on top of theres after parrying, than set up for the cross..

[McGrain]

I sparred him again today, for 10 rounds in a row so I got to practice what I was told. Jab to the body wasn't really successful because he kept countering me, but he bought into feints to the body which set up the right hand and left hook upstairs. I did however get my jab working thanks to what jones1 and achilles said. I placed my foot between his and was able to land it a few times, he blocked many but it did keep him occupied. When I wanted to set up the right I moved to my left, it worked perfectly. Seriously the guy is hell when you let him take the initiative so I was very pleased with that. My jab made it a tactical session instead of a brawl.

Good for you chap.

If he stumbles across this board, you're fucked :lol:

[markedwardscott]

Try double left hook, to body then to head. Practice on bag to get it crisp so you don't leave yourself open. Slip the right jab, then bang-bang. It works if you're quick with it.

[RDJ]

Good for you chap.

If he stumbles across this board, you're fucked :lol:

I already told him most of the advice I was given. A bit stupid perhaps but it will force me to improve ;)

[GPater11093]

another trick i use is hands high and just get close therefore negating any southpaw advantages as you are fighting up close

[MagnaNasakki]

I can't counter against him, he's too active and too dangerous. If I wait for him to lead he'll be first all the time and I'll be either blocking or running. I can't get to him that way, his left hand is too powerful and I want no part of his body punches either :D

Of course I do try to counter whenever I see an opening or spot a flaw, but as a strategy it doesn't work for me against this guy.



Feints work as well sometimes, but he doesn't buy into my feints. Sharp fella (or worthless feinter) :lol:

When I throw the multiple right hands I angle off to my left, avoiding his straight left, while being able to cover with my left for his right hook. While going left it's easy to throw a left hook, and the straight rights close up his guard if I aim at the nose, thus creating an opening for that same left hook.



I'm not moving to my right against this character, his left hand is scary :D



Yeah it helped, I already tried variations of some of your ideas, but feinting is probably something that can be explored more.

I'm 5'8.5" (I always claimed 5'9" but I may have shrunk since high school), he's about 5'10", not too big of a difference. I'm a light welter, he's a welter or even light middle.

Reach will be about equal, I have no problem getting into punching range. I can go inside, and I do that sometimes because I generally like being there. It's the half distance that I fear, he packs quite a punch in his left.

Jab at the same time he does. Used to give me hell.

But I wasnt a cute southpaw, so it depends on the style of the guy.

[MagnificentMatt]

Jab at the same time he does. Used to give me hell.

But I wasnt a cute southpaw, so it depends on the style of the guy.

If you werent a cute southpaw, you werent a normal one:D

[GPater11093]

lol

[MagnaNasakki]

If you werent a cute southpaw, you werent a normal one:D

I was a southpaw in that I was left handed only, hehe.

I was a clubber, mate. Poor mans left handed young George Foreman. I had a great chin and I hit really freaking hard. Skill wise, as unimpressive as you get. I admire the cute southpaws. The awkwardness of the lefty stance only served me when it gave me the extra split second to land a haymaker. I used to get hammered when a guy would put a left jab in my face when I tried to use my right to set up the overhand left.

[cord53]

See thread title, everybody knows it's not very useful. I spar a southpaw quite often, he's very dangerous (and a bit heavier than me) so obviously I want to keep him occupied. Problem is my jab does not work, his right hand is in the way. Jab-Hooking around it (Cuban style powerless left hook with the thumb area) worked for a while but he figured that out pretty quick. Today I just doubled and tripled up on the right hand and that worked very well. It kinda makes it a right hand jab from orthodox stance, since I can't really load up when I throw three in a row. He blocked the first one, second one got through, then his guard closed up and I was able to hook around it either up or downstairs.

I know the right hand is key when fighting a southpaw, but I wasn't just throwing right hands I was sort of jabbing with them.

Any tips from the experienced guys here? I know it worked, and at this moment he did not really have an answer. He told me after sparring that that was exactly how he lost his last match. But knowing him he will find an answer, and I want to be prepared :D
simple solution keep your left foot outside his right foot and throw right hands and left hooks.

[withoutwire]

another trick i use is hands high and just get close therefore negating any southpaw advantages as you are fighting up close

Mayweather seems to do this against southpaws? High guard and moves in on them, eg Judah fight

[paloalto00]

I'm southpaw motha fucka

[RDJ]

Old thread :)

I got a lot better at fighting southpaws over time. Now most of the times I keep my left hand further out and to the side a little so I can hook or jab quickly. A bit like Kostya (except not that good of course). Together with what achilles said (left foot between his feet for the jab, left foot outside his right foot for the right hand or left hook) it works like a charm. My footwork got much better, which makes everything easier.

[di tullio]

Jabbing the upper chest works well against both stances.

[Vysotsky]

Sparred the guy again tonight, but we were rotating so never longer than a minute. Tried to sneak the jab in through his guard and had a little bit of success with it but I need more time to practice against him in the ring. Shitty thing is that he used to be pretty stiff in the upper body, winky style, but he started to slip and duck out of fucking nowhere.

To be continued, I'll try all the suggestions in this thread.

Your plight with this guy has provided many laughs

Good for you chap.

If he stumbles across this board, you're fucked :lol:

:lol:

[withoutwire]

RDJ:

What do you think of throwing a kind of hookjab against southpaws to get around their lead hand? Rough example at 5.44 here

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


obviously thats a southpaw against an orthodox fighter, but it should work in reverse

[withoutwire]

Old thread :)

I got a lot better at fighting southpaws over time. Now most of the times I keep my left hand further out and to the side a little so I can hook or jab quickly. A bit like Kostya (except not that good of course). Together with what achilles said (left foot between his feet for the jab, left foot outside his right foot for the right hand or left hook) it works like a charm. My footwork got much better, which makes everything easier.

Also, how did you improve footwork?

[RDJ]

RDJ:

What do you think of throwing a kind of hookjab against southpaws to get around their lead hand? Rough example at 5.44 here

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


obviously thats a southpaw against an orthodox fighter, but it should work in reverse

Love it, that's why I now keep the left more extended and to the side.

[RDJ]

Also, how did you improve footwork?

More lateral movement. The key to landing punches is finding an angle, lateral movement is half of that.

[withoutwire]

:good