can a case be made for Lewis being the hardest hitting heavyweight of all time?

[Nemesis]

well?

[Bill1234]

NO. :nono :gsg

[rr94]

nope. Earnie Shavers is usually given that regard. He was given #10 by Ring magazine in 2003. Lewis was 33.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

"In 2003, Shavers was ranked number 10 among boxing's greatest punchers in history by Ring Magazine."

And Lewis had very little one-punch KO power, i don't recall more than one fight where it was a single concussive blow that ended the fight. He was a great Heavy, but not the hardest hitting.

[Nemesis]

who'd you have above him then?


and dont mention Holmes, he couldnt carry Lewis' jockstrap when it comes to punching power

[Nemesis]

nope. Earnie Shavers is usually given that regard. He was given #10 by Ring magazine in 2003. Lewis was 33.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

"In 2003, Shavers was ranked number 10 among boxing's greatest punchers in history by Ring Magazine."

And Lewis had very little one-punch KO power, i don't recall more than one fight where it was a single concussive blow that ended the fight. He was a great Heavy, but not the hardest hitting.

As much as I like Ernie, he hasnt KO'ed the comp Lewis has

[rr94]

As much as I like Ernie, he hasnt KO'ed the comp Lewis has

okay...Joe Louis, George Foreman, Joe Frazier....all cracked harder and KO'd better comp.

Whose LEwis Ko'd?

Tyson, Ruddock, Rahman? please.


I rank Lewis higher than most on all-time heavy rankings, but not because of his punch. Tyson had a heavier punch in his prime.

[rr94]

who did he knock out cold with a single concussive blow???

[red cobra]

Well, the obvious comes to mind which is Hasim Rahman. If there was a punch that proceeded that big right hand, it was probably only a setup punch, like the left uppercut Bob Foster used to set up Dick Tiger for that big left hook of his in 1968.

[DamonD]

I'd say no.

In terms of pound-for-pound pressure, I think there would be harder hitters. Guys like Foreman or Bruno spring to mind as two examples, amongst others.

It's his power combined with his technique that made Lewis capable of such huge hits.

[rr94]

Well, the obvious comes to mind which is Hasim Rahman. If there was a punch that proceeded that big right hand, it was probably only a setup punch, like the left uppercut Bob Foster used to set up Dick Tiger for that big left hook of his in 1968.

yeah i said before there's only one i can think of. So Lewis ko'd RAHMAN (a true heavyweight great, right?) and his KO's over comp is greater than Shavers? PLEASE. Shavers knocked you out cold. Broke your bones. Lewis is one of my faves, but not the hardest hitting heavy.

[Duodenum]

Shavers appears to have that distinction in the minds of most. Is he the hardest hitting heavyweight champion of all time? I would hold out for Jeffries, the Dempsey of Toledo, Marciano and Foreman. Jeffries fractured Gus Ruhlin's ribs on camera with his hook, and inflicted tremendous damage on Tom Sharkey with his right alone, again on camera. Rickard rated him the hardest puncher, including Dempsey. Regardless, I still believe Dempsey's first knockdown of Willard may be the hardest punch ever delivered on film. Jess survived it because he was retreating and knew it was coming. In the third round, the impact of his body attack actually lifted Willard off the floor.

Fitzsimmons fractured a man's wrist with one of his punches. From him, a shot to the forehead could be sufficient to produce a knockout.

I'm not aware of anybody who was hit by Max Baer not saying that he was the hardest puncher they'd ever been struck by. (Ditto Shavers.)

Marciano reportedly sheared off Rex Layne's teeth at the gumline. Foreman left Ali pissing blood for days after Muhammad managed to regain the title.

[KTFO]

Vitali Klitschko.

[Bill1234]

who'd you have above him then?


and dont mention Holmes, he couldnt carry Lewis' jockstrap when it comes to punching power

Why would I mention Holmes??? Shavers, Foreman, Liston, Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Frazier, Tyson, and Baer for starters.

[Bill1234]

you can't possibly say with a straight face that Marciano hits harder than Lewis.

I can. I will. And you can make a strong argument that he did.

[Bill1234]

Do explain

For starters Marciano would knock guys unconcious with 1 punch. I don't feel like going into full detail right now to be honest.

[ChrisPontius]

Yes, you can certainly make a case for it.

I believe that at a certain level, there's little to no distiction between who really punches harder.

I think Tyson, Lewis, Shavers and maybe a few others all have power off the charts and it's silly to try to distinguish between them. You can make a case for all of them being the hardest hitter ever.


And Lewis had very little one-punch KO power, i don't recall more than one fight where it was a single concussive blow that ended the fight. He was a great Heavy, but not the hardest hitting.


He knocked out Rahman with one punch. He also knocked out Weaver with one right hand. He knocked out Grant with one right uppercut. He knocked out Tyson with one right hand.


Now i challenge you to come forward with 4 names (and i'm talking contenders or champions here) that Shavers knocked out with ONE punch.

I think Tyson also has 3 or 4 one punch KO victims (not counting journeymen etc) as well as Marciano.

Bottomline is that no one has a really bigger amount of one punch KO's though there are some that equal him.

Conclusion? His power is as good as anyone in history.

You can bring up the usual "Rahman was a bum" talk, but let's face it, Shavers' best KO victims were washed up ex-contenders, so i don't really think you have a point there.

[bb251]

talking one punch power... you bet your ass the rock had a better punch... lewis being the bigger man doesn't = better power...

[Bill1234]

Could you see it taking Lewis 8 rounds of punishment to get rid of old Joe Louis?


Marciano said it himself, he was much like Holmes against Ali, afraid to pull the trigger. Look what happens when he does in the 8th though. He drops and majorly hurts Louis with a left hook, then finishes him off by sending him through the ropes.

[Bill1234]

Tyson had some great one punch KO's.

But his best one, Ettiente doesn't hold a candle light to Marciano's KO over Walcott.

[Bill1234]

No, but being a bigger man with great power in his own right does. :good


But Marciano all around, and either way had more power.

[Bill1234]

Now i challenge you to come forward with 4 names (and i'm talking contenders or champions here) that Shavers knocked out with ONE punch.


Norton, Ellis, I'm not sure if Williams was a contender or not. He came very close with Holmes. But overall, Shavers has more 1 punch KO's then Lewis. Also Weaver was way past his prime.

[brooklyn1550]

I guess a case can be made, but I for one don't think he's the hardest puncher ever. Top 5-10

[Duodenum]

Could you see it taking Lewis 8 rounds of punishment to get rid of old Joe Louis?
I can't see Lewis being able to take one round of punishment from old Joe Louis.

[Nemesis]

Yes, you can certainly make a case for it.

I believe that at a certain level, there's little to no distiction between who really punches harder.

I think Tyson, Lewis, Shavers and maybe a few others all have power off the charts and it's silly to try to distinguish between them. You can make a case for all of them being the hardest hitter ever.



He knocked out Rahman with one punch. He also knocked out Weaver with one right hand. He knocked out Grant with one right uppercut. He knocked out Tyson with one right hand.


Now i challenge you to come forward with 4 names (and i'm talking contenders or champions here) that Shavers knocked out with ONE punch.

I think Tyson also has 3 or 4 one punch KO victims (not counting journeymen etc) as well as Marciano.

Bottomline is that no one has a really bigger amount of one punch KO's though there are some that equal him.

Conclusion? His power is as good as anyone in history.

You can bring up the usual "Rahman was a bum" talk, but let's face it, Shavers' best KO victims were washed up ex-contenders, so i don't really think you have a point there.

Chris, what took you so long?

A fair and balanced argument :good

[robert ungurean]

No !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nemesis]

No !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

German's arent allowed to post on this one :patsch

[McGrain]

If we're talking about his hardest punches, yes, I think so. He's obviously top 6 or 7 for me, and I think that any of those guys, a case could be made.

[ChrisPontius]

But his best one, Ettiente doesn't hold a candle light to Marciano's KO over Walcott.

:patsch


Norton, Ellis, I'm not sure if Williams was a contender or not. He came very close with Holmes. But overall, Shavers has more 1 punch KO's then Lewis. Also Weaver was way past his prime.


Williams wasn't.

Yes, Weaver was past his best when Lewis knocked him out.

And i supposed Ellis and Norton weren't in their primes when Shavers knocked them out? And were they KO'd by one punch or a series of punches?

[ChrisPontius]

Chris, what took you so long?

A fair and balanced argument :good
Any time. :good

[Bummy Davis]

He looked like it Vs Golota,Rahman,Botha,Grant,Briggs but look at the way those fellows were also KO"D before and after,still he looked good, his better KO's were Tyson and Rudduck but his fights vs Levi Billups,Holyfield,Mercer,Marcovic,Tua show a different side of Lewis. Lennox had power going into the 8th round but never stopped anyone after that round. Lacking Late Power? or did he just coast not to tire. Either way Lennox Lewis is top 8 for Power,Louis,Dempsey,Marciano,Foreman,Lewis,Baer,Schmeling,Frazier(not in order)

[Duodenum]

Mike Weaver actually had a pair of excellent one punch knockouts in back-to-back title bouts against WBA Champions Tate and Coetzee, taking out Tate with a hook, and Coetzee with a right, sending them both down for the count. That has to be one of the most graphic demonstrations of single punch knockout power in either hand in HW history. (Later, he nearly turned the trick again with a hook on Carl Williams.)

Once Shavers blacked out Ellis, virtually everybody went out of their way to avoid getting nailed by Earnie.

After Mitch Green took Tyson the distance without going down, a number of writers likened his power as more closely resembling that of Frazier than Foreman.

[mcvey]

well?
No.

[achillesthegreat]

I'd say it is possible. I'd have him high but not 1, though it is possible.

Compare the guys he and Tyson fought, Tyson put away one faster.

Look at the guys who survived Lewis wrath and we are talking about iron wills and iron chins like Holy and Tua.

[Seamus]

Not #1 but way up there. Everything he threw had a meaning. His probing jab was emphatic. His right hand devastating. He was cautious in his approach but ruthless in his finish.

I think Joe Louis is as good as it got but size for size Lewis would destroy him.

[fists of fury]

It's possible.

I agree with Chris Pontius that once you reach a certain level, it's really impossible to distinguish between various fighters as to raw punching power.

How do we possibly tell who hit harder, Foreman or Shavers? All we can go on is a common opponent's testimony, which may not be that reliable to start with (after all, how can anyone remember the blow that knocked them out?) and what our eyes tell us.

Personally, I'd probably include Lewis with the elite punchers.

[Sizzle]

No fucking way.

He was a great puncher, with great raw punching power, but not close to being the best ever. He was certainly not as powerful a puncher as Tyson to compare from his era.

The likes of Shavers, Foreman, Liston, among others, packed a more powerful punch.

No case can be made.

[JohnThomas1]

Yes, you can certainly make a case for it.

I believe that at a certain level, there's little to no distiction between who really punches harder.

I think Tyson, Lewis, Shavers and maybe a few others all have power off the charts and it's silly to try to distinguish between them. You can make a case for all of them being the hardest hitter ever.



He knocked out Rahman with one punch. He also knocked out Weaver with one right hand. He knocked out Grant with one right uppercut. He knocked out Tyson with one right hand.


Now i challenge you to come forward with 4 names (and i'm talking contenders or champions here) that Shavers knocked out with ONE punch.

I think Tyson also has 3 or 4 one punch KO victims (not counting journeymen etc) as well as Marciano.

Bottomline is that no one has a really bigger amount of one punch KO's though there are some that equal him.

Conclusion? His power is as good as anyone in history.

You can bring up the usual "Rahman was a bum" talk, but let's face it, Shavers' best KO victims were washed up ex-contenders, so i don't really think you have a point there.

As usual, a quality post. Of course i agree as well. The other thing is if Lewis spent a career swinging from the rafters like Shavers he would have had more losses, but WTF would his right hand have been doing to people

:!:

[Doppleganger]

He was certainly not as powerful a puncher as Tyson to compare from his era. Why wasn't he? You are confusing punching technique and dynamics with raw punching power. Tyson was a dynamite puncher at his best which was where he utilized speed and combinations as well as raw power. Lewis is at least 6 inches taller than Tyson and was roughly 15 to 30 pounds heavier at various times. Plus he also had much greater leverage due to his height and long arms. I'd be surprised if Lewis wasn't by some margin a bigger one shot puncher than Tyson.

The likes of Shavers, Foreman, Liston, among others, packed a more powerful punch.Perhaps, perhaps not. As ChrisPontius eloquently stated after a certain level it all becomes somewhat irrelevant.

No case can be made. Of course a case can be made. The very fact that this thread has gone to 4 pages at the current time of counting proves that. If there was no case this thread would not have made it past page 1.

[ozziebattler]

But his best one, Ettiente doesn't hold a candle light to Marciano's KO over Walcott.

I would say tyson's shot against frans botha when mike was looking rather shit was his best shot ever..

He said in a interview with aussie t.v that he felt the frans botha shot was his best one.

I think topics like this are shit as its absolutely NOT POSSIBLE to say who hits harder UNLESS ANYONE ON HERE HAS BEEN HIT BY EVERY KNOWN HEAVYWEIGHT BOXER???.

IM WAITING......:bart

[ChrisPontius]

No fucking way.

He was a great puncher, with great raw punching power, but not close to being the best ever. He was certainly not as powerful a puncher as Tyson to compare from his era.

The likes of Shavers, Foreman, Liston, among others, packed a more powerful punch.

No case can be made.

What convinces you that Liston, Foreman and Shavers are so far above him in terms of power that there's "no fucking way" you can make a case for Lewis?

How many one punch KO's did Foreman and Liston have again?

[Bill1234]

So you think he could have done it earlier, then? How about Ezzard Charles? I can't see Lewis hitting him for 15 rounds and not going down.



The one punch KO over Tubbs was pretty damn impresive.


Look what Marciano did to him in the rematch. And to be honest, I can see Lewis going 15 rounds with Charles. Charles was a great fighter. The KO over Tubbs was impresive, but still doesn't hold a candle light to Marciano KO over Walcott. None of Tyson's 1 punch KO's can.

[Holmes' Jab]

well?

An emphatic yes. :good

He's up the in the very top tier alongside Liston, Foreman, Tyson and Shavers et al. :yep

[Stonehands89]

Ponitus & Holmes' Jab has it right. We can all go around in circles all day about the number one spot and it would be an exercise in futility.

It makes more sense to consider tiers: First tier: Tyson, Shavers, Lewis, Foreman, and ~Liston. Second tier, third tier, and so on.

[JohnThomas1]

Ponitus & Holmes' Jab has it right. We can all go around in circles all day about the number one spot and it would be an exercise in futility.

It makes more sense to consider tiers: First tier: Tyson, Shavers, Lewis, Foreman, and ~Liston. Second tier, third tier, and so on.

Add Louis to the first tier and you have me 100%.

[Duodenum]

I think topics like this are shit as its absolutely NOT POSSIBLE to say who hits harder UNLESS ANYONE ON HERE HAS BEEN HIT BY EVERY KNOWN HEAVYWEIGHT BOXER???.

IM WAITING......:bartRight. In the case of Max Baer, there was a consensus among his opponents that he was the hardest puncher of the middle of the century. Louis and Braddock said he hit them the hardest, and Louis of course closed out his career against Marciano.

Everybody who got hit by Jeffries described him as the hardest puncher, as was also apparently the case with Dempsey.

This also appears to apply to everybody who remembers being hit by Shavers. (Jimmy Ellis is supposed to have claimed that he wasn't impressed, but I doubt he had any recall of what hit him.)

SRR kayo Fullmer with the "perfect" hook, but while that was obviously the hardest punch he'd ever been hit by, he has no recollection of it. What Gene knows about it comes from the footage taken.

Did common opponents of Ingo and Liston address this issue? Ingo bombed out Machen in one, then Eddie went 12 with Liston, and into the tenth with a youthful Frazier. Of course Sonny would have beaten Ingo, but was Ingo the hardest puncher of the late 1950's? Pehaps it was Cleveland Williams for that era. Ali wouldn't be able to compare his power to Shavers, because Williams never connected solidly.

While Holmes has made it clear that Shavers hit him the hardest, he's also stated at times that Cooney never really nailed him. (Too slow.) Foreman's the guy who withstood Gerry's best shot.

For Jimmy Ellis to claim being unimpressed by Earnie's power might be sour grapes. For Archie Moore to say Yvon Durelle hit him the hardest might simply be a case of The Fisherman catching lightning in a bottle. A consensus one way or the other is harder to disregard. In the case of an older Foreman, Tyson, Lennox and Tua, they do have common opponents between them. What's the majority opinion among them all?

An awful lot of people talk about Tyson's power, but it doesn't seem as though a significant amount of this praise is coming from his opponents.

When Leroy Caldwell, Ali, Norton and Holmes all say that Shavers him them the hardest, how can that be readily dismissed as hyperbole?

[Executioner]

An awful lot of people talk about Tyson's power, but it doesn't seem as though a significant amount of this praise is coming from his opponents.


Eddie Richardson, after being knocked out by Tyson, was asked if he’s ever been hit as hard as Mike hit him:
“Yeah, about a year ago. I was hit by a truck.”

Sammy Scaff, the 250-pound Kentuckian who buckled under a barrage of Tyson punches, finally succumbing to a left hook after 1:19 of the first:
'I sparred with Greg Page, and I went four rounds, with Tim Witherspoon,' said Scaff, whose nose was still bleeding half an hour after the fight, 'but I've never been hit that hard in my life.'


Buster Mathis Jr. after his bout with Mike Tyson.:
'Mike Tyson dropped me. and when I looked up, the count was on five. I said to myself, Damn, whatever happened to one to four.'


Sparring partner Corey "T-Rex" Sanders:
"I've never been in the ring with someone who hit that hard. It feels like he has bricks in both hands."

[Stonehands89]

Add Louis to the first tier and you have me 100%.

Louis is hereby added to the first tier.

[The Kurgan]

who did he knock out cold with a single concussive blow???

Mike Weaver. A classic one-punch knockout.

[Duodenum]

Eddie Richardson, after being knocked out by Tyson, was asked if he’s ever been hit as hard as Mike hit him:
“Yeah, about a year ago. I was hit by a truck.”

Sammy Scaff, the 250-pound Kentuckian who buckled under a barrage of Tyson punches, finally succumbing to a left hook after 1:19 of the first:
'I sparred with Greg Page, and I went four rounds, with Tim Witherspoon,' said Scaff, whose nose was still bleeding half an hour after the fight, 'but I've never been hit that hard in my life.'


Buster Mathis Jr. after his bout with Mike Tyson.:
'Mike Tyson dropped me. and when I looked up, the count was on five. I said to myself, Damn, whatever happened to one to four.'


Sparring partner Corey "T-Rex" Sanders:
"I've never been in the ring with someone who hit that hard. It feels like he has bricks in both hands."Thanks. (Now that's good stuff!)

[Executioner]

Thanks. (Now that's good stuff!)


:good

[jonesjrp4p1]

no you have tyson liston foreman and shavers

[AnthonyJ74]

No fucking way.

He was a great puncher, with great raw punching power, but not close to being the best ever. He was certainly not as powerful a puncher as Tyson to compare from his era.

The likes of Shavers, Foreman, Liston, among others, packed a more powerful punch.

No case can be made.

How can you say with certainty that Liston, Shavers, Foreman and Tyson hit harder than Lewis? Lennox Lewis was bigger than all of those guys, and he weighed considerably more than them as well. Woud a 217 pound George Foreman have more power than a 244 pound Lennox Lewis? Maybe. I know that being physically big doesn't automatically equate with being a big puncher, but with Lewis, he was a big AND powerful guy. His straight right hand was deadly, and his uppercuts were jolting. He was able to get alot of leverage on his punches. The way Lewis KO'd Rahman was damn impressive, as Rahman was a durable heavyweight who had taken some heavy hits in his career. I'm in the minority as I think that guys like George Foreman and Earnie Shavers get too much credit for their power. It's almost as if the time to stamp your punching power into the hall of fame was back in the 70's, and any fighter that comes along after that - no matter how powerful - will never measure up! There's alot of bias!

[True Writer]

Shavers is over rated as a puncher - because thats all he had - a big punch. But it never won him a World title.

Lewis does have a big shout here. He also KOed Bruno with one punch - he was finished after the left hook. But power is not always about one punch, heavy puchers often stun opponents with one shot and finish them with combinations. Lewis could be biggest puncher of all time def top 3.

[Marciano Frazier]

well? I suppose a case can be made, but I don't think it's a good one. Lewis was a hard-hitter for sure and would be a threat to anyone, but I think there have been more than a couple other heavyweights who've more consistently shown raw knockout power than he did.

[Bill1234]

Shavers is over rated as a puncher - because thats all he had - a big punch. But it never won him a World title.


It almost did. Did you see Holmes-Shavers 2?

[True Writer]

Almost......but not quite. Tyson or Lewis would have finished the job.

[Bill1234]

Almost......but not quite. Tyson or Lewis would have finished the job.

Neither of them could have hit Larry that hard though.

[Duodenum]

Almost......but not quite. Tyson or Lewis would have finished the job.Peak Tyson had some difficulty finishing the job on a stale and rusty Holmes. (Over 45 seconds elapsed between the second and third knockdowns, and Larry nearly made it out of the round. If his right hand hadn't gotten caught in the ropes, he almost certainly would have.)

[Bill1234]

Peak Tyson had some difficulty finishing the job on a stale and rusty Holmes. (Over 45 seconds elapsed between the second and third knockdowns, and Larry nearly made it out of the round. If his right hand hadn't gotten caught in the ropes, he almost certainly would have.)


Exactly.:good

[hobgoblin]

He knocked out Tyson with one right hand.
That’s fallacious. The accumulated beating for 8 rounds + right hand got the KO. Take out the 8 round beating and that single right hand would have been far from enough to KO Tyson. Technically a one punch KO – in reality – 8 round battering KO. Additionally, old out of shape Tyson couldn’t nearly take a punch as well as he could when young & conditioned in the sense he could recover quickly from a hard punch.

I'd say no.
In terms of pound-for-pound pressure, I think there would be harder hitters. Guys like Foreman or Bruno spring to mind as two examples, amongst others.

It's his power combined with his technique that made Lewis capable of such huge hits.
I doubt Bruno hits as hard as Lewis. Just because Bruno is a big guy has the build of Hercules, and does hit pretty hard is STILL not enough to say he hits harder than the more proven Lennox Lewis. I also think that this thread should include “technique” not in the sense of effectiveness (e.g. Tyson & Louis) but in effective clubbing power. If you’re going to go pure, natural raw power – IMO that is simply impossible to tell. The best you can do is GUESS. Effective clubbing power – Lewis IMO does indeed hit the harder than someone like George Foreman whose arm punches employ HORRIBLE technique.

I still don´t agree with Tyson beeing that one-punch KO monster.
My theory is this: There were many times where he avoided sitting down on his punches. Oddly enough, there were many times where he did firmly plant his feet on the ground especially for the left hook. If you sit down on your punches – it takes your mobility which can be disadvantageous. Think Ali – after the layoff he danced less sat down more to throw heavier punches – see FOTC for that. Before the layoff he always danced and threw lighter punches. Against Razor Ruddock – Tyson avoided sitting down on his punches IMO – threw slightly lighter punches for quicker delivery & mobility. This IMO is the smarter way to go. Everyone knows that going for the 1 punch KO is a bad idea (as we saw with Tyson vs Lewis!). If given the choice – you should use combinations – and that is exactly what Tyson was trained to do. When he lost his speed i.e. ability to throw combinations – only then he relied on his pure power as a last resort (and the worst way to do things). Look at the Botha KO – that punch was as powerful as any. Botha was legitimately durable and in fact – two of Lennox Lewis’ right hands couldn’t have the same effect as Tyson’s single right hand (I’ll have to see the Lewis KO again – I don’t think Lennox sat down on those punches – why – mobility and so he could do 2 punches – combination punching is better than a single punch! It summarizes my points now that I think of it!).

Of course, people say that Tyson was useless when losing his speed – but incidentally he lost his speed at the same time he became totally shot (shot means all his systems are down) – after the second layoff. He was never the same as he was in Holy 2. His POWER never let him down nor his chin – his will to fight. Tyson’s 1 punch KO was crushing – but he used it only as a last resort because as Lennox indicated against Botha – it is smarter the use combinations.
For starters Marciano would knock guys unconcious with 1 punch. I don't feel like going into full detail right now to be honest.
IMO he & Tyson had similar power. The KO of Walcott resembled the Botha KO for me in terms of POWER.

But his best one, Ettiente
That was far from his best - he was shot to shit! Botha KO does. It isn't about who is the greate fighter - who had the greater chin. Botha & Walcott are compareable in that department and just by looking at the punches you can make judgments.

I guess a case can be made, but I for one don't think he's the hardest puncher ever. Top 5-10
There’s always the chance of a journeyman we never heard of or cared for that had GREAT 1 punch KO power – but maybe had a glass chin or just sucked so bad that his power couldn’t do it.

I can't see Lewis being able to take one round of punishment from old Joe Louis.
It isn’t like Lewis is supposed to sit there and stick his chin out as he leans against the ring post. If that is what he was to do - very few could take 1 round of punishment from an old Joe Louis! If you mean fight an old Joe Louis and withstand his attack – Lewis could definitely do that. Prime Louis is another story of course.

The one punch KO over Tubbs was pretty damn impresive.
Yes it was.

After Mitch Green took Tyson the distance without going down, a number of writers likened his power as more closely resembling that of Frazier than Foreman.
Green had a granite chin. I liken Tyson's power to that of Joe Louis. Sports writers are very fickle.

Compare the guys he and Tyson fought, Tyson put away one faster.
Nice try – but remember that Lenny fought a lot of Tyson’s left overs. Besides, it can also be explained by style / preference for combinations rather than 1 shots.

I think Joe Louis is as good as it got but size for size Lewis would destroy him.
Not really. Louis would KO Lennox Lewis in the subsequentl rematches if not the first time.

Max Baer
GREAT call.
Thanks. (Now that's good stuff!)
Not that I don’t think Tyson hit real hard – but those comments on his power came from BUMS.

Shavers is over rated as a puncher - because thats all he had - a big punch.
That’s the point. We don’t care that he was a crap fighter in every other aspect and that is why he never won the title. Just his power alone.

Peak Tyson had some difficulty finishing the job on a stale and rusty Holmes. (Over 45 seconds elapsed between the second and third knockdowns, and Larry nearly made it out of the round. If his right hand hadn't gotten caught in the ropes, he almost certainly would have.)
I really hope you're joking.
Tyson when they were done and still couldnt get impressive wins over them.
He look spectacular beating the shit out of shot Tyson.

[hobgoblin]

My own answer: HELL YES a case can be made.

On pure power alone - it's tough to confidently pick someone over him. Maybe Shavers. Foreman? Definitely Lewis. You MUST consider effective clubbing power (not effective overall punching as in the case of Louis or Tyson). Foreman did not always hit as hard as Lennox for one shot because Foreman threw arm punches. BIG DEAL! The one advantage Foreman had was a granite chin allowing him to sit down and recklessly wail away whereas Lennox always had to be on his toes & mobile and would sit down only when the opponent was beaten (Tyson) or neutralized. Lennox's technique was FAR better than Foreman's. The torque / leverage on his punches were as good as any. He had a great repertoire of punches and my favorite thing about him is that he had fast hands for a big man his size, good angles and he could land a punch out of nowhere e.g. Rahamn KO or the uppercut on granite chinned, iron willed Vitali Klitschko.

Pure power (tough to confidently pick one over him - MAYBE Shavers but NOT Liston, Tyson, etc - they MAYBE equal or SLIGHTLY less -gotta agree with Chris Pontius - at this level it becomes pointless) is EXCELLENT. Technique is excellent. Leverage is excellent. The record & highlight reels against legit opponents are THERE.

Damn right a case can be made for him.

[prime]

A case could be made, but it should be lost. Any fighter considered the heaviest hitter of all time must show devastating power in all his punches, something so evident even the disinterested bystander would take note of.

The wily Lewis, a big man, would set you up for the crushing blow, and that is what made him devastating: he was a chess player with big power. He poleaxed innocent lambs like Rahman and Grant, yet never even came close to flooring the savvy Holyfield over 24 rounds.

Lewis, then, is an uncommon and winning combination of a powerful puncher with good technique, who thinks well in the ring. But he is not the heaviest hitter of all time. His record is 41 wins, with only 32 knockouts. Hardly the stuff of legend, any way you slice it.

My votes for heaviest hitters go to George Foreman (76 wins, 68 kayoes), Mike Tyson (50 wins, 44 kayoes) and Earnie Shavers (74 wins, 68 kayoes). The stories on them ARE the stuff of legend, with good reason.

As far as individual blows go, the Shavers right just may be the most powerful punch of all time. Just look at the way Holmes and Ali reacted to it; look at his knockout percentage; listen to the stories. But a boxer has two hands and this one-trick pony never hit the big time.

Foreman regained the heavyweight crown by knocking out the man who had beaten the man, a 27-year-old proud champion, at the amazing age of 45, with nothing but one power shot, and for a ten count! That speaks for itself. The heaviest hitter of all time should have legendary clout in both hands, and Big George had equal power in both fists, with several bombs in his arsenal: the jab, the hook, the uppercut.

The fact that Mike Tyson finished Larry Holmes’ challenge with one fantastic, long-distance, charging right, is not to be belittled. Holmes was ready for the kill after just one punch and Tyson didn’t let the resourceful professor get away, as a top KO artist should. Signature fights: tough, durable, champion Berbick, ten count (Lane prevented a fourth tumble); Holmes, 45-second count; undefeated, “rightful heir” Spinks, ten count. Best puncher of all time: fast, surprising, accurate, powerful. When asked directly, and in Tyson’s presence, Ali fell all over himself praising Tyson over Shavers and proclaiming him the greatest, something AT LEAST with a grain of sincerity. Despite his later rants and claims, a just-defeated Holmes called him a great champion. I’ll take these moments of candor for what they are.

By the way, this is Ring Mag’s ranking of greatest punchers, but I still like my top three.
1. Joe Louis
2. Sam Langford
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. George Foreman
10. Earnie Shavers
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Sonny Liston
16. Mike Tyson
22. Max Baer
32. Jim Jefferies
33. Lennox Lewis

[AnthonyJ74]

A case could be made, but it should be lost. Any fighter considered the heaviest hitter of all time must show devastating power in all his punches, something so evident even the disinterested bystander would take note of.

The wily Lewis, a big man, would set you up for the crushing blow, and that is what made him devastating: he was a chess player with big power. He poleaxed innocent lambs like Rahman and Grant, yet never even came close to flooring the savvy Holyfield over 24 rounds.

Lewis, then, is an uncommon and winning combination of a powerful puncher with good technique, who thinks well in the ring. But he is not the heaviest hitter of all time. His record is 41 wins, with only 32 knockouts. Hardly the stuff of legend, any way you slice it.

My votes for heaviest hitters go to George Foreman (76 wins, 68 kayoes), Mike Tyson (50 wins, 44 kayoes) and Earnie Shavers (74 wins, 68 kayoes). The stories on them ARE the stuff of legend, with good reason.

As far as individual blows go, the Shavers right just may be the most powerful punch of all time. Just look at the way Holmes and Ali reacted to it; look at his knockout percentage; listen to the stories. But a boxer has two hands and this one-trick pony never hit the big time.

Foreman regained the heavyweight crown by knocking out the man who had beaten the man, a 27-year-old proud champion, at the amazing age of 45, with nothing but one power shot, and for a ten count! That speaks for itself. The heaviest hitter of all time should have legendary clout in both hands, and Big George had equal power in both fists, with several bombs in his arsenal: the jab, the hook, the uppercut.

The fact that Mike Tyson finished Larry Holmes’ challenge with one fantastic, long-distance, charging right, is not to be belittled. Holmes was ready for the kill after just one punch and Tyson didn’t let the resourceful professor get away, as a top KO artist should. Signature fights: tough, durable, champion Berbick, ten count (Lane prevented a fourth tumble); Holmes, 45-second count; undefeated, “rightful heir” Spinks, ten count. Best puncher of all time: fast, surprising, accurate, powerful. When asked directly, and in Tyson’s presence, Ali fell all over himself praising Tyson over Shavers and proclaiming him the greatest, something AT LEAST with a grain of sincerity. Despite his later rants and claims, a just-defeated Holmes called him a great champion. I’ll take these moments of candor for what they are.

By the way, this is Ring Mag’s ranking of greatest punchers, but I still like my top three.
1. Joe Louis
2. Sam Langford
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. George Foreman
10. Earnie Shavers
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Sonny Liston
16. Mike Tyson
22. Max Baer
32. Jim Jefferies
33. Lennox Lewis

George Foreman's KO percentage is drastically inflated due to all of the bums that he knocked out during the second phase of his career. I'm sure Lennox Lewis - at any age - would have stopped all of the guys that George stopped in his comeback. While I concede that George Foreman was a tremendous puncher, I highly doubt that he occupies some special place for power punchers in the fistic universe that no other fighter has access to. Gerry Cooney, Razor Ruddock, Tommy Morrison, David Tua, they all have(had) dynamite in their fists. Who's to say that none of them ever threw a punch as hard as George Foreman or Earnie Shavers? Who's to say that they never threw a punch harder than Foreman or Shavers? Is it possible that Razor Ruddock or Tommy Morrison could have starched Ken Norton or Ron Lyle as George did? I think it's highly possible.

[hobgoblin]

George Foreman's KO percentage is drastically inflated due to all of the bums that he knocked out during the second phase of his career. I'm sure Lennox Lewis - at any age - would have stopped all of the guys that George stopped in his comeback. While I concede that George Foreman was a tremendous puncher, I highly doubt that he occupies some special place for power punchers in the fistic universe that no other fighter has access to. Gerry Cooney, Razor Ruddock, Tommy Morrison, David Tua, they all have(had) dynamite in their fists. Who's to say that none of them ever threw a punch as hard as George Foreman or Earnie Shavers? Who's to say that they never threw a punch harder than Foreman or Shavers? Is it possible that Razor Ruddock or Tommy Morrison could have starched Ken Norton or Ron Lyle as George did? I think it's highly possible.

Earnie Shavers broke some poor guy's back! :shock:

Carefully examining his punches ROUGHLY indicates to me that he hit the hardest. Hearing what all his opponents had to say (and seeing Holmes compare Shavers fighters in 80s & 90s) make that ROUGH thought into a finer one. None of those guys you mentioned would have done to Frazier what Foreman did or no one beat up a heavy bag like Big George. Only with great caution would I put someone above George.

I don't have a source but I recall Holyfield saying that Foreman hit him the hardest (and I don't think this is the mentality where the fighter picks the guy he beat). It isn't easy to dispute that.

[Sizzle]

How can you say with certainty that Liston, Shavers, Foreman and Tyson hit harder than Lewis? Lennox Lewis was bigger than all of those guys, and he weighed considerably more than them as well. Woud a 217 pound George Foreman have more power than a 244 pound Lennox Lewis? Maybe. I know that being physically big doesn't automatically equate with being a big puncher, but with Lewis, he was a big AND powerful guy. His straight right hand was deadly, and his uppercuts were jolting. He was able to get alot of leverage on his punches. The way Lewis KO'd Rahman was damn impressive, as Rahman was a durable heavyweight who had taken some heavy hits in his career. I'm in the minority as I think that guys like George Foreman and Earnie Shavers get too much credit for their power. It's almost as if the time to stamp your punching power into the hall of fame was back in the 70's, and any fighter that comes along after that - no matter how powerful - will never measure up! There's alot of bias!

1. Hasim Rahman is not renowned for being a "durable" heavyweight - His chin is actually pretty average, he's been brutally stopped on more than one occassion.

2. Size doesn't equate to punching power. Joe Louis said himself the 270lbs Primo Carnera couldn't punch for shit. Granted Lewis is not Carnera, and Lewis can punch, but would you say that a 320lbs Nikolay Valuev hits harder than Lewis? Afterall, he's about 80lbs heavier.

3. Foremans KO percentage before his retirement in '77 (off the top of my head) was remarkable. As was Tysons. And Marciano's. Heck, Vitali Klitschko and Wladimir have a better KO % than Lewis. I know this is not an absolute indicator of punching power, but it is part of my argument.

4. Shavers has a number of PURE one punch knockouts. Certainly more than any fighter I've paid close attention to. Although Marciano did leave a few fighters down for a 60 count, let alone ten.'

Shavers is not the best puncher in the history of the heavyweight division, but for raw one punch power, there really is too much evidence to dispute Lennox Lewis hit harder. There are a shitload of accounts from fighters who have felt his power naming him the hardest hitter ever.

[Seamus]

What some of you are missing is that Lewis did not need to RELY on his one-punch power. He had a fairly complete arsenal, unlike a Shavers, and the key word in boxing is "effectiveness" not desperation. Lewis' punching arsenal was amazingly effective but it had many facets, countering, angles, speed, a bit of deception, rather than just trying to maximize his very formidable power. Were he more limited in other facet (and thus had suffered more losses), I imagine keyboard-honks would be waxing sublime over his great power.

[Sizzle]

What some of you are missing is that Lewis did not need to RELY on his one-punch power. He had a fairly complete arsenal, unlike a Shavers, and the key word in boxing is "effectiveness" not desperation. Lewis' punching arsenal was amazingly effective but it had many facets, countering, angles, speed, a bit of deception, rather than just trying to maximize his very formidable power. Were he more limited in other facet (and thus had suffered more losses), I imagine keyboard-honks would be waxing sublime over his great power.

Look at the thread title - This isn't about who had the best "arsenal" or the most efficient punching, it's asking if Lewis could be considered the HARDEST HITTING.

Obviously being able to throw a very hard single punch doesn't make you the best puncher - That's not what this argument is about.

So learn to read before you unleash your condescending tirade.

[AnthonyJ74]

Earnie Shavers broke some poor guy's back! :shock:

Carefully examining his punches ROUGHLY indicates to me that he hit the hardest. Hearing what all his opponents had to say (and seeing Holmes compare Shavers fighters in 80s & 90s) make that ROUGH thought into a finer one. None of those guys you mentioned would have done to Frazier what Foreman did or no one beat up a heavy bag like Big George. Only with great caution would I put someone above George.

I don't have a source but I recall Holyfield saying that Foreman hit him the hardest (and I don't think this is the mentality where the fighter picks the guy he beat). It isn't easy to dispute that.

You may be right. I can't fault you for having your beliefs. But there's so many variables that can come into play when analyzing who hit the hardest, or who was the bigger puncher. The quality of opposition means alot, the durability of certain opponents means alot, whether a guy has a good defense or a porous one; there's so many things that can come into play.

In response to your statement about Holyfield's statement regarding George Foreman; I remember reading an article in GQ magazine that was actually an interview with Evander Holyfield prior to his first fight with Lennox Lewis. The interviewer asked Holyfield who the strongest puncher he ever faced was, and Holyfield replied, "that's easy, Riddick Bowe"! He said Bowe was the hardest hitter he had faced, and he said that Larry Holmes was the slipperiest, craftiest fighter that he had ever faced.

[AnthonyJ74]

1. Hasim Rahman is not renowned for being a "durable" heavyweight - His chin is actually pretty average, he's been brutally stopped on more than one occassion.

2. Size doesn't equate to punching power. Joe Louis said himself the 270lbs Primo Carnera couldn't punch for shit. Granted Lewis is not Carnera, and Lewis can punch, but would you say that a 320lbs Nikolay Valuev hits harder than Lewis? Afterall, he's about 80lbs heavier.

3. Foremans KO percentage before his retirement in '77 (off the top of my head) was remarkable. As was Tysons. And Marciano's. Heck, Vitali Klitschko and Wladimir have a better KO % than Lewis. I know this is not an absolute indicator of punching power, but it is part of my argument.

4. Shavers has a number of PURE one punch knockouts. Certainly more than any fighter I've paid close attention to. Although Marciano did leave a few fighters down for a 60 count, let alone ten.'

Shavers is not the best puncher in the history of the heavyweight division, but for raw one punch power, there really is too much evidence to dispute Lennox Lewis hit harder. There are a shitload of accounts from fighters who have felt his power naming him the hardest hitter ever.

As I stated in my post, I didn't say that being bigger makes you a bigger hitter. But it can mean that! And I would have disagree with you on the basis of Hasim Rahman's durability. He think his durability and the strength of his chin is good; maybe not great, but he's certainly not a fragile heavyweight. He took alot of good shots from David Tua - in both of their fights - and stood up to most of them - not counting the punch he got hit with after the bell during their first fight. He took alot of heavy shots from Sanders, Maskaev, e.t.c.

[Sizzle]

As I stated in my post, I didn't say that being bigger makes you a bigger hitter. But it can mean that! And I would have disagree with you on the basis of Hasim Rahman's durability. He think his durability and the strength of his chin is good; maybe not great, but he's certainly not a fragile heavyweight. He took alot of good shots from David Tua - in both of their fights - and stood up to most of them - not counting the punch he got hit with after the bell during their first fight. He took alot of heavy shots from Sanders, Maskaev, e.t.c.

You try to defend his durability by mentioning fights where he was stopped..? :nut

Rahman is a safety first fighter, he tends to hide behind his long, powerful left jab - Hence him breaking the record for most jabs in a round. He's actually very, very good at this as you can see in his second fight with Tua. Against Monte Barrett he pressed the action but clearly was not committing to making an effort to stop him because he was afraid of being clocked. I'm not blaming him for it, but he is certainly not durable.

[AnthonyJ74]

You try to defend his durability by mentioning fights where he was stopped..? :nut

Rahman is a safety first fighter, he tends to hide behind his long, powerful left jab - Hence him breaking the record for most jabs in a round. He's actually very, very good at this as you can see in his second fight with Tua. Against Monte Barrett he pressed the action but clearly was not committing to making an effort to stop him because he was afraid of being clocked. I'm not blaming him for it, but he is certainly not durable.

Yeah, I can easily make the case that Hasim Rahman is a durable fighter by mentioning fights that he got stopped in. It wasn't like the guy took a few taps on the chin and went to sleep. He didn't get grazed and then go nite nite. Besides, getting stopped by fighters who have a big punch is not something to be ashamed of. David Tua, Lennox Lewis, Oleg Maskaev; they all have big punches! And, even durable fighters normally make an effort to avoid getting hit if they can. It's not like a guy who has a solid chin is going to go out and say, "Gee, let me give this guy all of the free shots he wants at me so I can prove my durability"!

[Zakman]

No