Could Mayweather have hung with Chavez in the pocket? [Archive]

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DINAMITA

02-02-2009, 02:07 PM

GPater11093

02-02-2009, 02:24 PM

i think Chavez Maywetaher would be a ******* of a fight i find it hard to split it

i think mayweather would win a tight desicion

i see Chavez starting slow and lsoing the first 6 then in the laster half of the fight maywetahe nicking afew of the rounds fought up close to win the fight by 1 or 2 points

PowerPuncher

02-02-2009, 02:45 PM

GPater11093

02-02-2009, 02:50 PM

PowerPuncher i think Chavez wins the inside fight with Mayweather just Mayweather nicks afew rounds out of it

Chavez could see openings up close like a hawk and was real strong on the inside, Mayweather trys to counter on the inside which dosent really work when a guy is picking his shots up close

WhataRock

02-02-2009, 08:46 PM

Mayweather struggled with more than just Castillo's size and strength. Floyd showed he could handle size and strength against someone like Baldo..Castillo brought more than just that and Chavez would bring even more.

Castillo is literally a poor mans version of Chavez as he used to spar with him and clearly tried to emulate elements of his style.

PBF does not hang with a prime Chavez..Well he hangs with him but loses clearly IMO. 8-4 over the 12.
Floyd was/is bloody good..just not that good.

Smokin'

02-02-2009, 08:57 PM

Mayweather struggled with Castillo. It's pretty self-explanatory,

TBooze

02-02-2009, 08:58 PM

I fancy prime 130/135 Chavez gets the job done against 130/135 Mayweather; maybe just because a deciding factor maybe because the Mayweather's just could not beat J.C. Superstar.

As Uncle Roger found out...Twice!

Sweet Pea

02-02-2009, 09:09 PM

Chavez gives him a beating down the stretch on the inside, especially as Mayweather's movement begins to fade and he becomes more complacent with leaning on the ropes and in the pocket looking to counter with single shots. Hell, even if he didn't apply that strategy Chavez's ever increasing pressure and effectiveness as the fight wore on would force it on him. Floyd takes a beating in the second half of the fight.

Robbi

02-02-2009, 09:11 PM

Mayweather struggled with Castillo. It's pretty self-explanatory,

Chavez always struggled with slick defensive movers like Taylor and Whitaker. And IMO Mayweather is more durable than Taylor. He's far more varied defesively. I can see why people fancy Chavez's chances based on the first Castillo fight.

If Mayweather boxed Chavez the same way he did against Corrales I'd put money on him winning. Big difference between Corrales and Chavez, miles apart in terms of cutting down the ring, etc. But I just can't see how Chavez could cope with a contstantly moving Mayweather, using the full ring, and scoring freely behind the jab. The bottom line is that Chavez was a measured fighter who was controlled and precise, which works against some styles. If Mayeather hung around on the ropes and generally fought flat-footed for the vast majority of the fight, then I would fancy Chavez's chances.

Smokin'

02-02-2009, 09:25 PM

Chavez always struggled with slick defensive movers like Taylor and Whitaker. And IMO Mayweather is more durable than Taylor. He's far more varied defesively. I can see why people fancy Chavez's chances based on the first Castillo fight.

If Mayweather boxed Chavez the same way he did against Corrales I'd put money on him winning. Big difference between Corrales and Chavez, miles apart in terms of cutting down the ring, etc. But I just can't see how Chavez could cope with a contstantly moving Mayweather, using the full ring, and scoring freely behind the jab. The bottom line is that Chavez was a measured fighter who was controlled and precise, which works against some styles. If Mayeather hung around on the ropes and generally fought flat-footed for the vast majority of the fight, then I would fancy Chavez's chances.

Yeah, I guess you could make a case for Floyd. I think Chavez being stronger than Castillo and applying more pressure, would be the undoing of Floyd.

Mantequilla

02-02-2009, 09:46 PM

Those fights with Taylor and Whitaker were at 140 and 147.

Chavez was at his best at 130 and 135.Quicker and less hittable.I think the competitive fights with Lockridge,ramirez and Laporte would better be used to illustrate any problems he would have.Problem is that none of those guys are much like Mayweather, whereas Castillo is stylistically comparable.

Seamus

02-03-2009, 12:12 AM

Two great fighters so there is no definitive prediction.

I would bet that Chavez bleeds him dry over 12 and takes a decision of late round KO. Hatton caused him problems and Hatton was nowhere in the league of JCC.

Maxmomer

02-03-2009, 12:34 AM

Jcc

Russell

02-03-2009, 01:00 AM

No one thinks that Mayweather's two fights with Castillo would benefit him if he went against a prime Chavez, as he'd already have two fights with a poor mans JCC?

Robbi

02-03-2009, 07:44 AM

Hell, even if he didn't apply that strategy Chavez's ever increasing pressure and effectiveness as the fight wore on would force it on him. Floyd takes a beating in the second half of the fight.

Nah.

rekcutnevets

02-03-2009, 10:36 AM

Floyd Mayweather Jr. would not be able to successfully stand in the pocket against Julio Cesar Chavez. Mayweather's speed, defense, and counter punching ability would allow him moments; but it would not be near enough. Chavez did not smother his own punches on the inside, like Ricky Hatton sometimes does. Chavez was very good at getting into his preferred range, and unleashing what might have been the best offense in boxing history.

Mayweather's best chance would be to fight Chavez in a manner that would infuriate the fans, similar to his victory over Baldomir. I personally don't believe that Mayweather has the chin to defeat Chavez. I believe Chavez will catch Mayweather with significant shots here and there in the first half of the fight, that cause Mayweather to stand still long enough for Chavez to unleash debilitating combinations. I believe Mayweather will be forced to fight on the inside when the fight reaches the 9th round, and Chavez stops him in the 11th.

DINAMITA

02-03-2009, 12:20 PM

PowerPuncher

02-03-2009, 12:43 PM

Mayweather struggled with Castillo. It's pretty self-explanatory,

Its interesting people point to a Castillo fight where FMJ was injured and fighting his first real test at 135, and don't look at Chavez's bigger problems with speedy boxers

Chavez lost to:

Whitaker - pretty much schooled. Chavez fans like to point to it being at WW, simple fact is Chavez couldnt handle those skills, speed, movement, defense at any weight. Its debatable who's better between Whitaker/Mayweather, I see Whitaker as better personally by a small margin. But Mayweather has similar abilities, faster hands and more power. Some say JCC was past prime, he was 31, Whitaker 29

Randall - beat him twice (that quit job by Chavez) fighting in the pocket and countering with flush shots. People say Chavez was past prime but he was only 32 and Randal was 32. FMJ plays this role far better than Randall without a doubt

Taylor - we all know Taylor was winning widely until the controversal stoppage. Chavez was 27 in his prime. Guess what FMJ isn't leaving his chin out to dry in the last round while way ahead on the cards.

Delahoya - simply dominated, albeit past his prime and by a bigger man

So based on Chavez's worst performances I could say FMJ schools JCC and makes him quit ala Randal. I mean thats what people do with FMJ, so fairs fair and Chavez's weak performances are well, weaker!

DINAMITA

02-03-2009, 12:46 PM

Its interesting people point to a Castillo fight where FMJ was injured and fighting his first real test at 135, and don't look at Chavez's bigger problems with speedy boxers

Chavez lost to:

Whitaker - pretty much schooled. Chavez fans like to point to it being at WW, simple fact is Chavez couldnt handle those skills, speed, movement, defense at any weight. Its debatable who's better between Whitaker/Mayweather, I see Whitaker as better personally by a small margin. But Mayweather has similar abilities, faster hands and more power. Some say JCC was past prime, he was 31

Randall - beat him twice (that quit job by Chavez) fighting in the pocket and countering with flush shots. People say Chavez was past prime but he was only 32 and Randal was 32. FMJ plays this role far better than Randall without a doubt

Taylor - we all know Taylor was winning widely until the controversal stoppage. Chavez was 27 in his prime. Guess what FMJ isn't leaving his chin out to dry in the last round while way ahead on the cards.

Delahoya - simply dominated, albeit past his prime and by a bigger man

So based on Chavez's worst performances I could say FMJ schools JCC and makes him quit ala Randal. I mean thats what people do with FMJ, so fairs fair and Chavez's weak performances are well, weaker!

All of those performances were above Chavez's peak weights 130-135. Mayweather v Castillo was only 5lbs north of Mayweather's peak weight and it was when Mayweather was prime.

1987 Chavez beats 2002 Mayweather IMO.

PowerPuncher

02-03-2009, 12:51 PM

All of those performances were above Chavez's peak weights 130-135. Mayweather v Castillo was only 5lbs north of Mayweather's peak weight and it was when Mayweather was prime.

1987 Chavez beats 2002 Mayweather IMO.

What has size goto do with those performances, all of the opponents started out at LW, Castillo weighs more in the ring than possibly any of those opponents

PowerPuncher

02-03-2009, 12:55 PM

Perhaps Chavez looked so good at 130-135 was because he was facing lesser opponents?

rekcutnevets

02-03-2009, 01:02 PM

Posted by DINAMITA
I mostly agree with your summation of how that fight would go, but I think you're overstating it quite a bit to say Chavez might have the "best offense in boxing history". Do you seriously think so??
Of all the fighters that I have ever watched, Chavez and Joe Louis are the two offenses that I have been most impressed with. I think Louis was a better puncher, with a better jab; but there are some similarities. Chavez and Louis were always consistent, and used a great blend of shots upstairs and down. They are the truest examples of doling out systematic destructions.

As far as speed and power are concerned, you can name numerous fighters that are greater than Chavez. However; all of Chavez' blows had a lingering effect, and he balanced his attack like no other. He was always in search and destroy mode, and had beating his opponent up down to a science.

DINAMITA

02-03-2009, 01:04 PM

What has size goto do with those performances, all of the opponents started out at LW, Castillo weighs more in the ring than possibly any of those opponents

Chavez at 147 was a different fighter to Chavez at 135.

Mayweather at 135 was not a substantially different fighter to Mayweather at 130.

DINAMITA

02-03-2009, 01:06 PM

Of all the fighters that I have ever watched, Chavez and Joe Louis are the two offenses that I have been most impressed with. I think Louis was a better puncher, with a better jab; but there are some similarities. Chavez and Louis were always consistent, and used a great blend of shots upstairs and down. They are the truest examples of doling out systematic destructions.

As far as speed and power are concerned, you can name numerous fighters that are greater than Chavez. However; all of Chavez' blows had a lingering effect, and he balanced his attack like no other. He was always in search and destroy mode, and had beating his opponent up down to a science.

I don't necessarily agree, but an interesting viewpoint nonetheless.

PowerPuncher

02-03-2009, 01:41 PM

Chavez at 147 was a different fighter to Chavez at 135.

Mayweather at 135 was not a substantially different fighter to Mayweather at 130.

Are you saying Chavez wasnt in his prime at 27? And didnt FMJ claim to have problems with his shoulder, hand and broken ribs during the first fight? You can hear Roger say between rounds 'I know your shoulder is out but your going to have to bite down and use it'.

The fact remains against the faster and slicker boxers JCC came up short time and again, while FMJ beat every pressure fighter he faced, 3 of which were P4P

PowerPuncher

02-03-2009, 01:45 PM

I mostly agree with your summation of how that fight would go, but I think you're overstating it quite a bit to say Chavez might have the "best offense in boxing history". Do you seriously think so??

Yes the best offense in boxing history, yet not huge powerful or particularly quick or the highest of workrates :nut

I'll come out and say FMJ has a better offense than Chavez (not that he is as offensively minded)

The Wanderer

02-03-2009, 02:04 PM

Whitaker - pretty much schooled. Chavez fans like to point to it being at WW, simple fact is Chavez couldnt handle those skills, speed, movement, defense at any weight. Its debatable who's better between Whitaker/Mayweather, I see Whitaker as better personally by a small margin. But Mayweather has similar abilities, faster hands and more power. Some say JCC was past prime, he was 31, Whitaker 29

Chavez, as pointed out, was no longer at his best weight, and was slowed down by injuries at this point in his career, included a back injury that took away a lot of his ability to move and cut off the ring. (And that's not bringing up things like the drug habits and such).

As far as the prime thing goes, you either must be kidding about the age, or aren't aware that it was Chavez' 88th professional fight and Whitaker's 34th.

Randall - beat him twice (that quit job by Chavez) fighting in the pocket and countering with flush shots. People say Chavez was past prime but he was only 32 and Randal was 32. FMJ plays this role far better than Randall without a doubtGuess you weren't kidding about the prime thing. Well, in Randall's case it's at least closer as Randall had 51 pro fights when they first met, as opposed to being Chavez' 91st. The Oscar example I'm not even going to touch because it should be obvious why that has no bearing on this conversation, anymore than, say, Ali-Spinks or Ali-Holmes does in talking about how Ali does against another boxer in a prime for prime matchup.

If we're really going to be fair about this, lets compare how Floyd looks after 80+ or 90+ fights and then say why various people would beat him. Or lets actually stick to the dates and primes specified.

For my own opinion on the fight, Chavez has a lot of problems with speed and slickness, and Floyd has that in spades. The question becomes does Floyd survive down the stretch, and this gets dicey because of Floyd's style of defense, which has him frequently standing still in front of his opponent and doing the shoulder roll to deflect punches rather than getting out of the way entirely. Prime Chavez was not a wild brawler, (although for some reason a lot of people like to think of him that way, probably because of his come forward style) but a very surgical and methodical puncher with great accuracy and a talent for picking his spots, so Floyd would be putting himself in harm's way if he did employ his usual defensive style.

Still, I think that unless Floyd did something stupid or let himself get physically broken down, he could eke a decision by using speed and smarts, although Chavez would make it close down the stretch and really punish Floyd for it. Of course, the smartest and easiest way for Floyd to win would be by not staying in the pocket. If he wants to win and not piss blood or have his prime shortened, he would be staying on the move and out of the pocket. (Which he would probably be smart enough to do, I think. At least at first).

PowerPuncher

02-03-2009, 02:19 PM

1. Chavez, as pointed out, was no longer at his best weight, and was slowed down by injuries at this point in his career, included a back injury that took away a lot of his ability to move and cut off the ring. (And that's not bringing up things like the drug habits and such).

2. As far as the prime thing goes, you either must be kidding about the age, or aren't aware that it was Chavez' 88th professional fight and Whitaker's 34th.

3. Guess you weren't kidding about the prime thing. Well, in Randall's case it's at least closer as Randall had 51 pro fights when they first met, as opposed to being Chavez' 91st.

4. The Oscar example I'm not even going to touch because it should be obvious why that has no bearing on this conversation, anymore than, say, Ali-Spinks or Ali-Holmes does in talking about how Ali does against another boxer in a prime for prime matchup.

5. If we're really going to be fair about this, lets compare how Floyd looks after 80+ or 90+ fights and then say why various people would beat him. Or lets actually stick to the dates and primes specified.

For my own opinion on the fight, Chavez has a lot of problems with speed and slickness, and Floyd has that in spades. The question becomes does Floyd survive down the stretch, and this gets dicey because of Floyd's style of defense, which has him frequently standing still in front of his opponent and doing the shoulder roll to deflect punches rather than getting out of the way entirely. Prime Chavez was not a wild brawler, (although for some reason a lot of people like to think of him that way, probably because of his come forward style) but a very surgical and methodical puncher with great accuracy and a talent for picking his spots, so Floyd would be putting himself in harm's way if he did employ his usual defensive style.

Still, I think that unless Floyd did something stupid or let himself get physically broken down, he could eke a decision by using speed and smarts, although Chavez would make it close down the stretch and really punish Floyd for it. Of course, the smartest and easiest way for Floyd to win would be by not staying in the pocket. If he wants to win and not piss blood or have his prime shortened, he would be staying on the move and out of the pocket. (Which he would probably be smart enough to do, I think. At least at first).

1. Everyone has injuries its part of boxing. Mayweather himself has had massive injury problems with hands/shoulder, especially against Castillo 1. His hand/shoulder problems are possibly why he pot shotted far more in his late career. How was 140 not Chavez's best weight? He could no longer make 135, hence was at 140 at 27 (Taylor).

2. Whitaker according to him had 534+ bouts by that stage amateur and pro, Chavez only had 88. Many of Whitakers amateurs bouts will have been far harder than Chavez's 0-0 taxi drivers he beat up on. Put in that context Chavez's 88bouts mean little

3. Again Chavez's had no amateur career so fought more learning fights and fought more no hopers, this doesn't age him as a fighter, it sharpens him. Randall had mroe amateur fights. Both were the same age

4. I said Chavez was past prime, but not by anything like as much as ALi-Spinks, lets not be silly. The manner of the domination was a little humiliating, and it was again due to the speed of the opponent

5. Floyd's fought far far more fights than Chavez (amateur and pro). FMJ fought 20+ title fights over 10years without loss, Chavez should have lost his first title bout after 6years (Taylor) and then 9 years in (Whitaker) before losing 10years in (Randal)

PS I agree with your analysis somewhat

SnakeFist7

02-03-2009, 02:28 PM

Are we taking into consideration that Mayweather was injured in his fight with castillo, whereas before the injury he dominated the first fight against Castillo? And he dominated the rematch??

DINAMITA

02-03-2009, 02:32 PM

Are you saying Chavez wasnt in his prime at 27? And didnt FMJ claim to have problems with his shoulder, hand and broken ribs during the first fight? You can hear Roger say between rounds 'I know your shoulder is out but your going to have to bite down and use it'.

The fact remains against the faster and slicker boxers JCC came up short time and again, while FMJ beat every pressure fighter he faced, 3 of which were P4P

By the time Chavez fought Randall he was well past-prime. He knocked out Taylor twice. PBF never fought anyone even anywhere near as good as Whitaker. Mayweather struggled horribly against Castillo.

SnakeFist7

02-03-2009, 02:42 PM

By the time Chavez fought Randall he was well past-prime. He knocked out Taylor twice. PBF never fought anyone even anywhere near as good as Whitaker. Mayweather struggled horribly against Castillo.

If you look at the fight you will see that at a certain point Floyd complains about his shoulder, around round 5 I believe. And I believe he was told to keep doing what he is doing and suck it up. And he fought him with the injury for the remainder. There is NO coincidence that when this occurred the fight became tougher, whereas before it was not as much of a struggle.

And he won a clear decision in the rematch. Are we looking at this objectively, with all the info we know imputed into the fight?

Sweet Pea

02-03-2009, 03:26 PM

Nah.Yah.

Robbi

02-03-2009, 03:34 PM

Yah.

Nah.

Bill Butcher

02-03-2009, 04:47 PM

I actually favour Chavez over Mayweather period, never mind FMJ trying to fight in the pocket.

Chavez aint just a tough, reckless brawler, he was great defensively & never wasted a punch + the accumalative effect of his shots was devastating.

If Floyd tried to fight in the pocket with JCC, he more or less hands Chavez the victory & puts himself in danger of not being able to finish the fight.

strongarm

02-03-2009, 04:50 PM

Mayweather out does Chavez in the pocket aswell as murdering him at long range. People talk about Castillo being a close fight, which it was but that was an aboration against a man who regularly came into LW fights weighing 155, Chavez is better but 'easier' to outmuscle

Easier to out muscle than Castillo? I completely disagree. Nonetheless, to me it's hard to pick a winner for this one.

strongarm

02-03-2009, 05:01 PM

Its interesting people point to a Castillo fight where FMJ was injured and fighting his first real test at 135, and don't look at Chavez's bigger problems with speedy boxers

Chavez lost to:

Whitaker - pretty much schooled. Chavez fans like to point to it being at WW, simple fact is Chavez couldnt handle those skills, speed, movement, defense at any weight. Its debatable who's better between Whitaker/Mayweather, I see Whitaker as better personally by a small margin. But Mayweather has similar abilities, faster hands and more power. Some say JCC was past prime, he was 31, Whitaker 29

Randall - beat him twice (that quit job by Chavez) fighting in the pocket and countering with flush shots. People say Chavez was past prime but he was only 32 and Randal was 32. FMJ plays this role far better than Randall without a doubt

Taylor - we all know Taylor was winning widely until the controversal stoppage. Chavez was 27 in his prime. Guess what FMJ isn't leaving his chin out to dry in the last round while way ahead on the cards.

Delahoya - simply dominated, albeit past his prime and by a bigger man

So based on Chavez's worst performances I could say FMJ schools JCC and makes him quit ala Randal. I mean thats what people do with FMJ, so fairs fair and Chavez's weak performances are well, weaker!

Whitaker's fight was not the chavez that would have fought Mayweather (not natural prime weigth class) and Mayweather is definitely not Whitaker.

As for Randall, yeah JCC was only 32 but had over 85 fights under his belt, what fighter can attes to fighting that much and not losing. He was definitely past his prime

Taylor... we don't know how great Taylor could have been, possibly better than Whitaker and Mayweather. And lets forget about the controversial stoppage. One think that is for sure is that Taylor after the first chavez fight would never be the same fighter again.

De la Hoya... no doubt that Chavez was on his way out.

Bill Butcher

02-03-2009, 05:09 PM

The Chavez of the Rosario fight was a machine, I dont see any version of Mayweather beating that guy.

Even the 140 lb Chavez in his best form would likely bring the sort of constant pressure that Mayweather would not like one bit, it would be a great fight but I give Floyd a better chance vs Pryor than Chavez as JCC had the better defence & wasted fewer punches.

WhataRock

02-03-2009, 05:17 PM

I dont base my opinion that Chavez would beat Mayweather on the first Castillo fight, the 2nd is just as definitive. Even a fully fit Mayweather still had a tough time in there and just straight up shut up shop for long periods of that fight.

In 24 rounds against Castillo he was hit more than I had ever seen him get hit before and probably since.

He had a hard time against Castillo's intelligent pressure which is about 50 IQ points lower than Chavez's in his prime.

Mendoza

02-03-2009, 07:09 PM

Many/most people seem to think PBF would beat Chavez I have noticed.

I've just watched Chavez v Rosario, and I have to say I have my doubts.

Of course Rosario is a completely different fighter to Mayweather, but we saw the trouble Mayweather had with Castillo.

Peak '87 Chavez I think would stay on top of Mayweather and grind him down for a points decision. If JCC could keep the fight at close range, I can't see Mayweather overcoming him.

Thoughts/opinions?

:bbb

Chavez was a great fighter, but limited athletically. JC Chavez was not quick with his hands or feet, and really did not have fight changing one punch power. I think Mayweather would take the decision here.

PowerPuncher

02-03-2009, 08:11 PM

1. Whitaker's fight was not the chavez that would have fought Mayweather (not natural prime weigth class) and Mayweather is definitely not Whitaker.

2. As for Randall, yeah JCC was only 32 but had over 85 fights under his belt, what fighter can attes to fighting that much and not losing. He was definitely past his prime

3. Taylor... we don't know how great Taylor could have been, possibly better than Whitaker and Mayweather. And lets forget about the controversial stoppage. One think that is for sure is that Taylor after the first chavez fight would never be the same fighter again.

4. De la Hoya... no doubt that Chavez was on his way out.

1. Chavez was near prime and got completely schooled and beat up by Whitaker, Chavez could fight Sweet Pea 100 times in 5 different weight classes and lose every time. Whitaker had had more fights than JCC FYI (500 amateur bouts, JCC had zero). Like I say FMJ is on a similar level to Whitaker (FMJ has worse radar/footwork/workrate), (FMJ has better speed, orthodox defense, power, strength)

2. Randal had more fights than JCC, FMJ has JCC didn't fight amateurs so had. I suppose you could counter JCC had a few more amateur fights. The manner of the cheating quit job and no rubber match from JCC was disgusting

3. Taylor was an athlete, a speester without a boxing brain or good enough defense. He would never have been on the level as a Whitaker/FMJ and would be taken out in 4 rounds by Norris a few years later. Its interesting JCC didnt go near Taylor until he had 2 more stoppages defeats

4. Agreed although he wasnt shot and they were humiliating losses

radianttwilight

02-03-2009, 10:09 PM

1. Chavez was near prime and got completely schooled and beat up by Whitaker, Chavez could fight Sweet Pea 100 times in 5 different weight classes and lose every time. Whitaker had had more fights than JCC FYI (500 amateur bouts, JCC had zero). Like I say FMJ is on a similar level to Whitaker (FMJ has worse radar/footwork/workrate), (FMJ has better speed, orthodox defense, power, strength)

Why do you think Floyd had more power than Whitaker? Ditto strength. When did we ever see Whitaker get pushed around pre-Trinidad?

I also fail to see why better "orthodox defense" has anything to do with this matchup. Whitaker was good because he DIDN'T have orthodox defense. A lot of fighters had better "orthodox defense" than Whitaker, but that doesn't mean that they were on his level.

I also think Whitaker was about as fast as they come. If anything his footwork was "slower" than Floyd's, but still much better.

leverage

02-03-2009, 10:17 PM

Mayweather is one of the greatest defensive fighters of all time and perhaps the best of the past 20 years. He has the ability to stand right in front of his opponents an not get hit, slipping and deflecting his opponents blows.

He would do the same to chavez, fustrating him and giving him a boxing lesson while doing it.

redrooster

02-04-2009, 09:05 AM

Bill Butcher

02-04-2009, 04:56 PM

PBF would have beat Chavez-embarrassingly easy

Not prime v prime he wouldnt.

Its not unreasonable that Floyd could win over Chavez but I think Chavez beats him prime v prime.

Neither man would find it easy as both are 2 of the best fighters of all time.

Floyd has had hard fights before & no fighter ever had an easy time vs a prime JCC so you do the math.

:thumbsup

Minotauro

02-04-2009, 05:49 PM

META5

02-07-2009, 03:09 AM

Why do you think Floyd had more power than Whitaker? Ditto strength. When did we ever see Whitaker get pushed around pre-Trinidad?

I also fail to see why better "orthodox defense" has anything to do with this matchup. Whitaker was good because he DIDN'T have orthodox defense. A lot of fighters had better "orthodox defense" than Whitaker, but that doesn't mean that they were on his level.

I also think Whitaker was about as fast as they come. If anything his footwork was "slower" than Floyd's, but still much better.

Floyd had better footspeed and was better, technically, with the footwork - Pete could be described as more 'artistic', but IMO, not significantly better with footwork. Whitaker's defense was more reliant on reflexes, blocking, parrying and specifically squatting than one would expect from a defensive master.

One of Pete's most obvious faults is that he crossed his feet, putting himself off-balance and momentarily vulnerable ... this is something highlighted by the commentators in the first Ramirez bout ... so no, his footwork was not "still much better"