Top 100 ATG - (My Personal List)

[asero]

This is my personal list of top 100 All Time Great Boxers.
personally i use this criteria:

80% accomplishment and historical significance - this
invloves fights with the fellow all-time greats, titles
held, punching power and boxing skills displayed, dominance and
longetivity.

20% timeliness and contribution to the growth of the sport- this also includes mainstream popularity.


1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Sam Langford
5. Harry Greb
6. Joe Louis
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Roberto Duran
9. Willie Pep
10. Benny Leonard

11. Ray Leonard
12. Manny Pacquiao
13. Pernell Whitaker
14. Archie Moore
15. Carlos Monzon
16. Bob Fitzsimmons
17. Joe Gans
18. Barney Ross
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Mickey Walker
21. Gene Tunney
22. Barbados Joe Walcott
23. Rocky Marciano
24. Alexis Arguello
25. Sandy Saddler
26. Jimmy Wilde
27. Jack Johnson
28. Julio Cesar Chavez
29. Roy Jones Jr
30. Bernard Hopkins

31. Tony Canzoneri
32. Lennox Lewis
33. Evander Holyfield
34. Charley Burley
35. Thomas Hearns
36. Kid Gavilan
37. Emile Griffith
38. Eder Jofre
39. Jack Dempsey
40. Salvador Sanchez

41. Ike Williams
42. Michael Spinks
43. Floyd Mayweather Jr
44. Stanley Ketchel
45. Larry Holmes
46. Jimmy McLarnin
47. Jose Napoles
48. Tommy Loughran
49. Ruben Olivares
50. Carlos Ortiz

51. Fighting Harada
52. Wilfredo Gomez
53. Bob Foster
54. Billy Conn
55. Dick Tiger
56. Panama Al Brown
57. George Foreman
58. Joe Frazier
59. Aaron Pryor
60. Tommy Ryan

61. Tiger Flowers
62. Kid Chocolate
63. Jake LaMotta
64. Manuel Ortiz
65. Abe Attel
66. Terry McGovern
67. Carmen Basilio
68. Ted Kid Lewis
69. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
70. Ricardo Lopez

71. Oscar De La Hoya
72. Jim Jeffries
73. Jack Britton
74. Carlos Zarate
75. Wilfred Benitez
76. Felix Trinidad
77. Erik Morales
78. Marco Antonio Barrera
79. Mike Tyson
80. Shane Mosley

81. Pancho Villa
82. Azumah Nelson
83. Miguel Canto
84. Packey McFarland
85. Pascual Perez
86. Joe Brown
87. Juan Manuel Marquez
88. Marcel Cerdan
89. Flash Elorde
90. Vicente Saldivar

91. George Dixon
92. Joe Calzaghe
93. Harry Wills
94. Holman Williams
95. John Dundee
96. Mike McCallum
97. Antonio Cervantes
98. Gene Fullmer
99. Jim Driscoll
100. Sonny Liston

101. Non Pareil Jack Dempsey
102. Beau Jack
103. Nicolino Locche
104. Khaosai Galaxy
105. Benny Lynch
106. Duilio Loi
107. Freddie Welsh
108. Philidelphia Jack O'Brien
109. James Toney
110. Jimmy Bivins

111. Harold Johnson
112. Bob Montgomery
113. Maxie Rosenbloom
114. Freddie Miller
115. Eusebio Pedroza
116. Lou Ambers
117. Jeff Fenech
118. Lloyd Marshall
119. Mike Gibbons
120. John Henry Lewis
121. Battling Nelson
122. Tommy Gibbons
123. Young Stribling

124. Johnny Kilbane
125. Young Griffo
126. Pete Herman
127. Kosta Tszyu
128. Nino Benvenuti
129. Georges Carpentier
130. Vitalai Klitschko
131. Wladimir Klitschko
132. Ken Buchanan
133. Winky Wright
134. Jack Kid Berg
135. Jack Blackburn
136. Johnny Tapia
137. Tony Zale
138. Lew Tendler
139. Jersey Joe Walcott
140. Jack Dillon
141. Owen Moran
142. Fidel Labarba
143. Frankie Genaro
144. Battling Levinsky
145. Midget Wolgast
146. Fritzie Zivic
147. Joe Jeannette
148. Orlando Canizales
149. Kid Williams
150. Joe Lynch
151. Les Darcy
152. Kid McCoy
153. Esteban De Jesus
154. Freddie Steele
155. Michael Carbajal
156. Humberto Gonzales
157. Nigel Benn
158. Chris Eubank
159. Jack McAuliffe
160. Israel Vazquez
161. Rafael Marquez
162. Terry Norris
163. Ivan Calderon
164. Jim Barry
165. Floyd Patterson
166. Jung-Koo Chang
167. Battling Battalino
168. Jack Delaney
169. John Coulon
170. Ismael Laguna


Peter Jackson
Max Schmelling
James Corbett
Jeff Chandler
Ken Norton
Dwight Qawi
Ad Wolgast
Sam McVeys
Sammy Angott
Teddy Yarosz
Naseem Hamed
Joey Maxim
Joey Giardello
Billy Papke
Billy Graham
Chalky Wright
Tommy Burns
Matthew Saad
Sugar Ramos
Kid Lavigne
Lew Jenkins
Bobo Olson
Billy Petrolle
Max Baer
Victor Galindez

Sammy Mandell
Laszlo Papp
Willie Pastrano
Young Corbett III
Bud Taylor
Frank Klaus
Benny Bass
Pepino Cuevas
Sixto Escobar
Red Lopez
Harry Harris
Jimmy Carter
Ingemar Johansson
Brian Mitchell
Billy Soose
Jose Torres
Billy Smith
Gorilla Jones
Eddie Perkins
Harry Lewis
Len Harvey
Kid Norfolk
Pedro Montanez
George Godfrey

Edwin Rosario
Jimmy Slattery
Lou Brouillard
Marcel Thil
Barry McGuigan
Bobby Chacon
Daniel Zaragoza
Willie Richie
Jackie Fields
Carlos Palomino
George Lavigne
Jess Willard
Baby Arizmendi
Tom Sharkey
Kid Kaplan
Curtis Cokes
Fred Apostoli
Randy Turpin
Charley Mitchell










Hilario Zapata
Riddick Bowe
Myung Woo Yuh
Jiro Watanabe
Darius Michalczewski
Michael Nunn
Carlos De Leon
Virgil Hill
Pone Kingpetch
Tomasz Adamek
Yoko Gushiken
Rosendo Alvarez
Jose Luis Castillo
Ricky Hatton
Kelly Pavlik
Paul Berlenbach
Joy e Choynski

Joel Casamayor
Diego Corrales
Cocoa Kid
David Haye
Johnny Buff
Horacio Accavallo
Eddie Booker
Joey Archer
Miguel Cotto
Frankie Burns
Masao Ohba
Lupe Pintor

[Russell]

Copy and pasted from someplace, no doubt. :hey

[WhataRock]

Not bad Asero..I would change some things personally but its your list and your criteria is probably a bit different..its pretty good.

Lennox seems very high to me. As does Dempsey for that matter.

Top 50 seems pretty solid..the next 50 is pretty hard I reckon, so its not such a big deal if you have big differences to other peoples.

[Rise Above]

Personally I think Monzon and Ali are too high and Gans to low. In saying that we all have differing opinions on this kind of thing and to do a list like this isnt easy.

[asero]

my problem with dempsey is he is reltively inactive from 1920-1926..that supposed to be his prime years.

i still believe that duran and leonard are better lightweights than joe gans.

[asero]

i can not rank pacquiao higher than lewis right now..

[trampie]

Well done on the list.

I actually put up the 'who is the most respected boxer ever ?' thread with you in mind, 'Peerless' Jim Driscoll boxing achievements were excellent he absolutely hammered Abe Attell, number 74 on your list, he had an estimated 120000 people attend his funeral and has statues as well as streets named after him, which contributes to boxers ranking according to your list ? yet he does not make your top 100, when to my mind he should be above Attell.
This is no criticism of your list just an example of how difficult it is to create a good list, you also have left off another Welsh great in 'Fearless' Freddie Welsh, this could be because you are American ? and have little knowledge of these boxers, you research resources are also proberbly all American {although both Jim Driscoll and Freddie Welsh fought many times in the states and were both stars in America}
You mentioned previously that a panel should create a list and not an individual, there is such a list, an American based list, created by boxing writers and historians, they have George Dixon as a top 30 ATG, i don't see him on your list.
Some people would have Jack Johnson no where near as high as number 11, he is often ranked close to Jim Jeffries who is number 89 on your list.
I knew you was going to rank American boxers and modern boxers to high and non American and old boxers to low { i could tell from some of your previous posts} -

To high
Ali 3 [American & modern] well known poster 8
Foreman 64 [American & modern] well known poster 91
Frazier 61 [American & modern] well known poster 92
Holyfield 27 [American & modern] well known poster 40
Hopkins 30 [American & modern] well known poster 55
Mayweather 39 [American & modern] well known poster 74
Moseley 74 [American & modern] well known poster outside top 115
Pacquiao 32 [modern] well known poster outside top 115
Morales 80 [modern] well known poster 110
Barrera 82 [modern] well known poster 111
Trinidad 70 [modern] well known poster 94

To Low
Jofre 33 [Brazil] well known poster 20
Napoles 50 [Cuba] well known poster 26
Driscoll not ranked [Wales] well known poster 36
Welsh not ranked [Wales] well known poster 105
Duran 9 [Panama] well known poster 6
Harada 51 [Japan] well known poster 28

The above boxers struck me as either being to high or to low, so i checked them against sweet_scientist's list {i believe he has a good list} and indeed they came out as i thought.

[DINAMITA]

Congrats on producing your list, good effort mate.

My personal opinion:

- TOO HIGH
- TOO LOW

This is my personal list of top 100 All Time Great Boxers.
personally i use this criteria:

80% accomplishment and historical significance - this
invloves fights with the fellow all-time greats, titles
held, punching power and boxing skills displayed, dominance and
longetivity.

20% timeliness and contribution to the growth of the sport- this also includes mainstream popularity.
Tyson is great but his legacy suffers because it can not
stand the test of time. Monzon's longetivity is matched
by hopkins thus monzon's rankings would go
down. henry armstrong legacy of jumping in weight in a year
is unmatched of more than 50 years...thats so long and he
deserves to be in the top 2 ATG.


1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Sam Langford
6. Harry Greb
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore
11. Jack Johnson
12. Benny Leonard
13. Ray Leonard
14. Pernell Whitaker
15. Carlos Monzon
16. Jimmy Wilde
17. Barney Ross
18. Bob Fitzsimmons
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Joe Gans
21. Sandy Saddler
22. Julio Cesar Chavez
23. Alexis Arguello
24. Mickey Walker
25. Rocky Marciano
26. Roy Jones Jr
27. Lennox Lewis
28. Evander Holyfield
29. Gene Tunney
30. Bernard Hopkins
31. Jack Dempsey
32. Manny Pacquiao
33. Eder Jofre
34. Salvador Sanchez
35. Tony Canzoneri
36. Kid Gavilan
37. Ike Williams
38. Charley Burley
39. Floyd Mayweather Jr
40. Emile Griffith
41. Larry Holmes
42. Thomas Hearns
43. Jimmy McLarnin
44. Ruben Olivares
45. Barbados Joe Walcott
46. Tommy Loughran
47. Michael Spinks
48. Jake LaMotta
49. Dick Tiger
50. Jose Napoles
51. Fighting Harada
52. Panama Al Brown
53. Manuel Ortiz
54. Tiger Flowers
55. Kid Chocolate
56. Bob Foster
57. Billy Conn
58. Wilfredo Gomez
59. Carlos Ortiz
60. Terry McGovern
61. Joe Frazier
62. Stanley Ketchel
63. Tommy Ryan
64. George Foreman
65. Jack Britton
66. Ted Kid Lewis
67. Carmen Basilio
68. Wilfred Benitez
69. Oscar De La Hoya
70. Felix Trinidad
71. Joe Brown
72. Aaron Pryor
73. Ricardo Lopez
74. Abe Attel
75. Shane Mosley
76. Carlos Zarate
77. Harry Wills
78. Azumah Nelson
79. Pancho Villa
80. Erik Morales
81. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
82. Marco Antonio Barrera
83. Mike Tyson
84. Pascual Perez
85. Miguel Canto
86. Joe Calzaghe
87. Marcel Cerdan
88. Flash Elorde
89. Jim Jeffries
90. Holman Williams
91. John Dundee
92. Eusebio Pedroza
93. Antonio Cervantes
94. Nicolino Locche
95. Jimmy Bivins
96. Mike McCallum
97. Sonny Liston
98. Khaosai Galaxy
99. Benny Lynch.
100. Bob Montgomery

if you think any boxer is ranked too high or too low or any fighter i miss out , please say your comments.



JMO :good

[mrplow182]

Congrats on producing your list, good effort mate.

My personal opinion:

- TOO HIGH
- TOO LOW





JMO :good

Dinamita where did you rank Jim Driscoll in your ATG great list the other month??

Just curious........

[trampie]

I should not answer for somebody else, but the person you are asking is strong on modern boxers but not so strong on the old timers .
{Driscoll,Dixon,Jeffries,Montomery,Beau Jack etc}

But whenever he updates his list, then be ready for a good one, as he is constantly taking information on board.

{PS no offence meant, just a honest assessment}

[mrplow182]

I should not answer for somebody else, but the person you are asking is strong on modern boxers but not so strong on the old timers .
{Driscoll,Dixon,Jeffries,Montomery,Beau Jack etc}

But whenever he updates his list, then be ready for a good one, as he is constantly taking information on board.

{PS no offence meant, just a honest assessment}

To be honest other than the old-time featherweights my pre-war knowledge is fairly basic but I'm just interested to see how high people who know of Driscoll rate him. I have a very high opinion of him and if he had white washed Abe Attell after the days of newspaper scoring and no results then he would have been even more revered.

[trampie]

Driscoll did dominate Attell, Nat Fleischer when commenting on the bout said that Driscoll was clearly the best and proved to be the best featherweight in the world.
Attell was lucky not to be knocked out.

[mrplow182]

Driscoll did dominate Attell, Nat Fleischer when commenting on the bout said that Driscoll was clearly the best and proved to be the best featherweight in the world.
Attell was lucky not to be knocked out.

Yeah I've read about that fight a lot and Driscoll was definitely unlucky, even if he had knocked Attell out the world title still wouldn't have been awarded to the Welshman.......and we think Sauerland is bad these days!!!

Just imagine if we had the newspapers and policemen scoring fights today and deciding that without a knockout you can't win the belt!?

[TommyV]

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Sam Langford
6. Harry Greb
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore
11. Jack Johnson
12. Benny Leonard
13. Ray Leonard
14. Pernell Whitaker
15. Carlos Monzon
16. Jimmy Wilde
17. Barney Ross
18. Bob Fitzsimmons
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Joe Gans
21. Sandy Saddler
22. Julio Cesar Chavez
23. Alexis Arguello
24. Mickey Walker
25. Rocky Marciano
26. Roy Jones Jr
27. Lennox Lewis
28. Evander Holyfield
29. Gene Tunney
30. Bernard Hopkins
31. Jack Dempsey 32. Manny Pacquiao
33. Eder Jofre
34. Salvador Sanchez
35. Tony Canzoneri
36. Kid Gavilan
37. Ike Williams
38. Charley Burley
39. Floyd Mayweather Jr
40. Emile Griffith
41. Larry Holmes
42. Thomas Hearns
43. Jimmy McLarnin
44. Ruben Olivares
45. Barbados Joe Walcott
46. Tommy Loughran
47. Michael Spinks
48. Jake LaMotta
49. Dick Tiger
50. Jose Napoles
51. Fighting Harada
52. Panama Al Brown
53. Manuel Ortiz
54. Tiger Flowers
55. Kid Chocolate
56. Bob Foster
57. Billy Conn
58. Wilfredo Gomez
59. Carlos Ortiz
60. Terry McGovern
61. Joe Frazier
62. Stanley Ketchel
63. Tommy Ryan
64. George Foreman
65. Jack Britton
66. Ted Kid Lewis
67. Carmen Basilio
68. Wilfred Benitez
69. Oscar De La Hoya
70. Felix Trinidad
71. Joe Brown
72. Aaron Pryor
73. Ricardo Lopez
74. Abe Attel
75. Shane Mosley
76. Carlos Zarate
77. Harry Wills
78. Azumah Nelson
79. Pancho Villa
80. Erik Morales
81. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
82. Marco Antonio Barrera
83. Mike Tyson
84. Pascual Perez
85. Miguel Canto
86. Joe Calzaghe
87. Marcel Cerdan
88. Flash Elorde
89. Jim Jeffries
90. Holman Williams
91. John Dundee
92. Eusebio Pedroza
93. Antonio Cervantes
94. Nicolino Locche
95. Jimmy Bivins
96. Mike McCallum
97. Sonny Liston
98. Khaosai Galaxy
99. Benny Lynch.
100. Bob Montgomery

♣ - Too High
♣ - Too Low

[mrplow182]

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Sam Langford
6. Harry Greb
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore
11. Jack Johnson
12. Benny Leonard
13. Ray Leonard
14. Pernell Whitaker
15. Carlos Monzon
16. Jimmy Wilde
17. Barney Ross
18. Bob Fitzsimmons
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Joe Gans
21. Sandy Saddler
22. Julio Cesar Chavez
23. Alexis Arguello
24. Mickey Walker
25. Rocky Marciano
26. Roy Jones Jr
27. Lennox Lewis
28. Evander Holyfield
29. Gene Tunney
30. Bernard Hopkins
31. Jack Dempsey 32. Manny Pacquiao
33. Eder Jofre
34. Salvador Sanchez
35. Tony Canzoneri
36. Kid Gavilan
37. Ike Williams
38. Charley Burley
39. Floyd Mayweather Jr
40. Emile Griffith
41. Larry Holmes
42. Thomas Hearns
43. Jimmy McLarnin
44. Ruben Olivares
45. Barbados Joe Walcott
46. Tommy Loughran
47. Michael Spinks
48. Jake LaMotta
49. Dick Tiger
50. Jose Napoles
51. Fighting Harada
52. Panama Al Brown
53. Manuel Ortiz
54. Tiger Flowers
55. Kid Chocolate
56. Bob Foster
57. Billy Conn
58. Wilfredo Gomez
59. Carlos Ortiz
60. Terry McGovern
61. Joe Frazier
62. Stanley Ketchel
63. Tommy Ryan
64. George Foreman
65. Jack Britton
66. Ted Kid Lewis
67. Carmen Basilio
68. Wilfred Benitez
69. Oscar De La Hoya
70. Felix Trinidad
71. Joe Brown
72. Aaron Pryor
73. Ricardo Lopez
74. Abe Attel
75. Shane Mosley
76. Carlos Zarate
77. Harry Wills
78. Azumah Nelson
79. Pancho Villa
80. Erik Morales
81. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
82. Marco Antonio Barrera
83. Mike Tyson
84. Pascual Perez
85. Miguel Canto
86. Joe Calzaghe
87. Marcel Cerdan
88. Flash Elorde
89. Jim Jeffries
90. Holman Williams
91. John Dundee
92. Eusebio Pedroza
93. Antonio Cervantes
94. Nicolino Locche
95. Jimmy Bivins
96. Mike McCallum
97. Sonny Liston
98. Khaosai Galaxy
99. Benny Lynch.
100. Bob Montgomery

♣ - Too High
♣ - Too Low

Why Sonny Liston lower than Mike McCallum??

[WhataRock]

Why Sonny Liston lower than Mike McCallum??


I guess it depends on what criteria you put the great emphasis on.

Of course Mike has a very clear edge in a p4p sense being a 3 division champ, but its harsh on a heavyweight to put to much importance on p4p achievements because obviously they got no where to go from heavyweight.

Mike was champ for longer seeing as though Sonny only had a short reign.

Sonny's non-title record is very solid, people often overlook that.

What splits them for me is that I think McCallum is just the better more skilled fighter on film, he has the deeper resume and the greater longevity as a champ and top contender.

[asero]

Well done on the list.



To high
Ali 3 [American & modern] well known poster 8
Foreman 64 [American & modern] well known poster 91
Frazier 61 [American & modern] well known poster 92
Holyfield 27 [American & modern] well known poster 40
Hopkins 30 [American & modern] well known poster 55
Mayweather 39 [American & modern] well known poster 74
Moseley 74 [American & modern] well known poster outside top 115
Pacquiao 32 [modern] well known poster outside top 115
Morales 80 [modern] well known poster 110
Barrera 82 [modern] well known poster 111
Trinidad 70 [modern] well known poster 94

To Low
Jofre 33 [Brazil] well known poster 20
Napoles 50 [Cuba] well known poster 26
Driscoll not ranked [Wales] well known poster 36
Welsh not ranked [Wales] well known poster 105
Duran 9 [Panama] well known poster 6
Harada 51 [Japan] well known poster 28

The above boxers struck me as either being to high or to low, so i checked them against sweet_scientist's list {i believe he has a good list} and indeed they came out as i thought.



foreman had a outstanding 2nd career..there is a huge historical significance in his every fight bec of his age. still i rank him below lewis, holy, holmes, frazier

frazier's trilogy is also significant. if i put ali at #3, i should show some love to smokin joe

when was the last time Bhop gets KO..still his fights has historical implications. he denied hoya and trinidad top 50 positions. pryor did also deny arguello but he did not have a long career to enable him to rank higher.

if PBF losses just once, i put him 70-80..right now, he would still be favored against pac. i put pac higher bec of his acheivements

when was the last sugar shane gets KOed..plus he beat oscar a legit top 100 guy..

when was the last time a 130 fighter KOed a 147 contender in such a big event. and he comes all the way from flyweight. give importance to the fact that he came from being a flyweight champ.

morales should be high bec he beat pac. if pac is my #32, EM should a little bit higher. and where morales goes, barerra should be close to him.

if pac losses to hatton (ko or points). he gets bump outside top 50 and EM and MAB maybe around 90-100

look at the impact of trinidad in puerto rico..he is the new standard there.. not ortiz, not gomez. not even benitez..he had done a lot for the growth of the sport.

on jofre, please tell me who did he beat that is in the HOF? please no saldivar...if jofre goes down, so does harada..

as for duran, the loss to hearns and the no mas incident hurt his legacy. i still consider him the best lightweight ever.

i still believe that dundee that a better career than driscoll. and driscoll is better than welsh

btw, i put driscoll at #102 behind resenblom and just above jack, ambers, dixon, miller, saldivar,$ fuller and kilbane

[asero]

i put a lot of premium to the dominance of a HW champion in his reign..that why louis is rank that high..same as lewis and johnson

calzag and pedroza makes the list for the historical achievements regarding long title reign. this is an ATG list not p4p list..

[asero]

I guess it depends on what criteria you put the great emphasis on.

Of course Mike has a very clear edge in a p4p sense being a 3 division champ, but its harsh on a heavyweight to put to much importance on p4p achievements because obviously they got no where to go from heavyweight.

Mike was champ for longer seeing as though Sonny only had a short reign.

Sonny's non-title record is very solid, people often overlook that.




same reason i rank lewis and holmes higher than foreman

[asero]

I should not answer for somebody else, but the person you are asking is strong on modern boxers but not so strong on the old timers .
{Driscoll,Dixon,Jeffries,Montomery,Beau Jack etc}

But whenever he updates his list, then be ready for a good one, as he is constantly taking information on board.

{PS no offence meant, just a honest assessment}

shane is bound to go down at some point..
if pac loss to hatton, then he would be bump out of top 50. EM and MAB would also be in the rear end of top 100..

lennox is so dominant in the 1990s just as holmes is..not the case for liston and foreman..where lennox goes, holyfield must be near..

the fights between montomery and jack exposes the weaknesses of each other as compared to the MAB-EM where their stock goes up..

[asero]

i adjusted jim jeffries. i never thought that he was in the long lay off when he fight jack johnson..i put him at 65

[DINAMITA]

I should not answer for somebody else, but the person you are asking is strong on modern boxers but not so strong on the old timers .
{Driscoll,Dixon,Jeffries,Montomery,Beau Jack etc}

But whenever he updates his list, then be ready for a good one, as he is constantly taking information on board.

{PS no offence meant, just a honest assessment}

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

How you have the nerve to be so arrogant astounds me!!!!?

You think a man who had been comprehensively laughed out of town for placing the great WILLIAM JOPPY at 143rd in his top 200 ahead of Erik Morales and Azumah Nelson would be very very careful about commenting on other peoples' knowledge and lists - but apparently not!!!!!!

As I have told you again and again, I do not believe Jack, Montgomery or Jefferies merit a place in a top 100. I cannot find enough information and sources on George Dixon to be able to make a serious and definitive judgement on his career, and to be honest, I don't believe you can either. You are including Dixon in a list because you don't want to be seen to exclude him in case anyone thinks it is a hole in your vast knowledge (:lol:), but the information on Dixon in existence is scant, and you don't strike me as a true historian who could have researched enough on him to be able to make a proper assessment. Because historians don't rate Joppy's!! :good

[DINAMITA]

Dinamita where did you rank Jim Driscoll in your ATG great list the other month??

Just curious........

I did not include him because I do not believe he merits a place in an all-time top 100.

[Power]

This is my personal list of top 100 All Time Great Boxers.
personally i use this criteria:

80% accomplishment and historical significance - this
invloves fights with the fellow all-time greats, titles
held, punching power and boxing skills displayed, dominance and
longetivity.

20% timeliness and contribution to the growth of the sport- this also includes mainstream popularity.
Tyson is great but his legacy suffers because it can not
stand the test of time. Monzon's longetivity is matched
by hopkins thus monzon's rankings would go
down. henry armstrong legacy of jumping in weight in a year
is unmatched of more than 50 years...thats so long and he
deserves to be in the top 2 ATG.


1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Sam Langford
6. Harry Greb
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore

11. Jack Johnson
12. Benny Leonard
13. Ray Leonard
14. Pernell Whitaker
15. Carlos Monzon
16. Jimmy Wilde
17. Barney Ross
18. Bob Fitzsimmons
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Joe Gans

21. Sandy Saddler
22. Julio Cesar Chavez
23. Alexis Arguello
24. Mickey Walker
25. Rocky Marciano
26. Roy Jones Jr
27. Lennox Lewis
28. Evander Holyfield
29. Gene Tunney
30. Bernard Hopkins

31. Jack Dempsey
32. Manny Pacquiao
33. Eder Jofre
34. Salvador Sanchez
35. Tony Canzoneri
36. Kid Gavilan
37. Ike Williams
38. Charley Burley
39. Floyd Mayweather Jr
40. Emile Griffith

41. Larry Holmes
42. Thomas Hearns
43. Jimmy McLarnin
44. Ruben Olivares
45. Barbados Joe Walcott
46. Tommy Loughran
47. Michael Spinks
48. Jake LaMotta
49. Dick Tiger
50. Jose Napoles

51. Fighting Harada
52. Panama Al Brown
53. Manuel Ortiz
54. Tiger Flowers
55. Kid Chocolate
56. Bob Foster
57. Billy Conn
58. Wilfredo Gomez
59. Carlos Ortiz
60. Terry McGovern

61. Joe Frazier
62. Stanley Ketchel
63. Tommy Ryan
64. George Foreman
65. Jim Jeffries
66. Jack Britton
67. Ted Kid Lewis
68. Carmen Basilio
69. Wilfred Benitez
70. Oscar De La Hoya

71. Felix Trinidad
72. Joe Brown
73. Aaron Pryor
74. Ricardo Lopez
75. Abe Attel
76. Shane Mosley
77. Carlos Zarate
78. Harry Wills
79. Azumah Nelson
80. Pancho Villa

81. Erik Morales
82. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
83. Marco Antonio Barrera
84. Mike Tyson
85. Pascual Perez
86. Miguel Canto
87. Joe Calzaghe
88. Marcel Cerdan
89. Flash Elorde
90. Holman Williams

91. John Dundee
92. Eusebio Pedroza
93. Antonio Cervantes
94. Nicolino Locche
95. Jimmy Bivins
96. Mike McCallum
97. Sonny Liston
98. Khaosai Galaxy
99. Benny Lynch.
100. Bob Montgomery


if you think any boxer is ranked too high or too low or any fighter i miss out , please say your comments.

Just had a mad thought whilst going through this list. imgaine if there was a way we could have got all these great fighters to have a pound for pound competition..... obviously wishful thinking

[trampie]

No Jim Driscoll, no Jim Jeffries, no George Dixon.
Oh well perhaps you list is the best of the last 25 years type list, DINAMITA.

My list was put together after the Hopkins/Calzaghe bout, i could not believe the disrespect towards Calzaghe on this site at that time,particularly from you DINAMITA, so i created a list to show some of the doughnuts, on this forum, look this is where Calzaghe stands on an all time list, it had to be a top 200 because at the time, some people were saying he would not make their top 100 {fair enough}, i figured that even the most biased of posters would be hard pressed not to have him in a top 200, that would be enough to make some doughnuts stop and think top 200 all time 'he must be good', and give the boxer some overdue respect.
If i had done a bona-fide list i would have ended up with lots of old boxers that most of the people that i was targeting would not have heard of and i would have had virtually no responce, so i needed a list with the best of the current crop on {Joppy,Hatton etc}as well as the all time greats to stimulate conversation, interest and debate.

Your bona fide list on the other hand, was not designed to stimulate conversation, it was your attempt at a serious list and if you think that Dixon,Jeffries and Driscoll dont belong on your list, that is fine, but be aware that most experts would have those boxers on their list.
The Intenational Boxing Research Organization rank George Dixon as a top 30 p4p ATG, Jim Jeffries as #7 all time heavyweight and Jim Driscoll as #9 all time featherweight. {and their lists are only a few years old}

[DINAMITA]

No Jim Driscoll, no Jim Jeffries, no George Dixon.
Oh well perhaps you list is the best of the last 25 years type list, DINAMITA.

Yes, with Langford and Greb in the top 4 it certainly does have the appearance of a best of the last 25 years list. :patsch

My list was put together after the Hopkins/Calzaghe bout, i could not believe the disrespect towards Calzaghe on this site at that time,particularly from you DINAMITA, so i created a list to show some of the doughnuts, on this forum, look this is where Calzaghe stands on an all time list, it had to be a top 200 because at the time, some people were saying he would not make their top 100 {fair enough}, i figured that even the most biased of posters would be hard pressed not to have him in a top 200, that would be enough to make some doughnuts stop and think top 200 all time 'he must be good', and give the boxer some overdue respect.

- You wanted Calzaghe to get his due after the Hopkins fight.

In order to achieve this, you did NOT...

- Make a thread in the immediate aftermath of the bout calling for people to give Calzaghe his due.

- Make a thread at any point calling for people to give Calzaghe his due.

- Make a thread specifically about the Hopkins v Calzaghe bout.


Instead, what you are claiming you did, is...

- Wait for the best part of a year and then write an entire top 200 list placing Calzaghe at a pretty nondescript and acceptable 86th place...

:lol:

THE MOST BLATANT AND WOEFUL LIE I HAVE EVER READ ON THIS WEBSITE.





If i had done a bona-fide list i would have ended up with lots of old boxers that most of the people that i was targeting would not have heard of and i would have had virtually no responce, so i needed a list with the best of the current crop on {Joppy,Hatton etc}as well as the all time greats to stimulate conversation, interest and debate.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


The best of the current crop..... :patsch

Yes, you are an expert it seems...... :lol:



Your bona fide list on the other hand, was not designed to stimulate conversation, it was your attempt at a serious list and if you think that Dixon,Jeffries and Driscoll dont belong on your list, that is fine, but be aware that most experts would have those boxers on their list.
The Intenational Boxing Research Organization rank George Dixon as a top 30 p4p ATG, Jim Jeffries as #7 all time heavyweight and Jim Driscoll as #9 all time featherweight. {and their lists are only a few years old}

Yawn. As usual, you crave validation by making your own lists like others. I don't. For me, there is absolutely no way that Jim Jeffries in the 7th best hw ever - and because someone else thinks so does not mean I will automatically change my mind.

Most boxing experts would lampoon your laughable overratings of guys like Dempsey and Johnson. If you ask guys like McGrain and Sweet Pea, they will back my placing of them and be at odds with your own.

[Sam Dixon]

I cannot find enough information and sources on George Dixon to be able to make a serious and definitive judgement on his career, and to be honest, I don't believe you can either. You are including Dixon in a list because you don't want to be seen to exclude him in case anyone thinks it is a hole in your vast knowledge (:lol:), but the information on Dixon in existence is scant, and you don't strike me as a true historian who could have researched enough on him to be able to make a proper assessment.

There's actually a ton of information on Dixon available online nowadays, my friend, and if someone was to take the time, one could do some extensive research on the fighter even via the free newspaper sites that are available to us (Brooklyn Eagle, Chronicling America, etc.).

[TommyV]

Why Sonny Liston lower than Mike McCallum??

Sonny's over-rated. Of course the guy could box & punch, but his resume is over-rated. Wins over a natural 175 in Floyd Patterson, very good wins though, and a couple over decent contenders like Eddie Machen, Cleveland Williams, Nino Valdes & Zora Folley isn't enough for me to rank him over McCallum. His title reign is one that is short and weak.

McCallum was a superb fighter and ranks highly P4P because he achieved success over a number of weight classes, champion at light-middle, middle and then incredibly light-heavyweight. Wins over Julius Jackson, Donald Curry, Milton McCrory, Michael Watson, Steve Collins, Herol Graham, Sumbu Makalamby, a draw with James Toney, great resume.

[DINAMITA]

McCallum was a superb fighter and ranks highly P4P because he achieved success over a number of weight classes, champion at light-middle, middle and then incredibly light-heavyweight. Wins over Julius Jackson, Donald Curry, Milton McCrory, Michael Watson, Steve Collins, Herol Graham, Sumbu Makalamby, a draw with James Toney, great resume.

Brilliant post :happy

McCallum is often a bit underrated because he lacked the 'glamour' of other big 80s fighters. But he was absolutely magnificent. Cracking resume, great skillset, one of the very very best fighters of the last 25 years.

[DINAMITA]

There's actually a ton of information on Dixon available online nowadays, my friend, and if someone was to take the time, one could do some extensive research on the fighter even via the free newspaper sites that are available to us (Brooklyn Eagle, Chronicling America, etc.).

Are you referring to primary sources? To be honest mate, although they may be very very interesting reading, I don't see how they would be a basis for a definitive assessment of a fighter's career and greatness. Reports by the white media lacking in details/stats from over a century ago would make great reading, but I'm not ready to make a judgement on a man on that basis, and give him a specific placing in a list. Just my opinion.

[EL-MATADOR]

This is my personal list of top 100 All Time Great Boxers.
personally i use this criteria:

80% accomplishment and historical significance - this
invloves fights with the fellow all-time greats, titles
held, punching power and boxing skills displayed, dominance and
longetivity.

20% timeliness and contribution to the growth of the sport- this also includes mainstream popularity.
Tyson is great but his legacy suffers because it can not
stand the test of time. Monzon's longetivity is matched
by hopkins thus monzon's rankings would go
down. henry armstrong legacy of jumping in weight in a year
is unmatched of more than 50 years...thats so long and he
deserves to be in the top 2 ATG.


1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Sam Langford
6. Harry Greb
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore

11. Jack Johnson
12. Benny Leonard
13. Ray Leonard
14. Pernell Whitaker
15. Carlos Monzon
16. Jimmy Wilde
17. Barney Ross
18. Bob Fitzsimmons
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Joe Gans

21. Sandy Saddler
22. Julio Cesar Chavez
23. Alexis Arguello
24. Mickey Walker
25. Rocky Marciano
26. Roy Jones Jr
27. Lennox Lewis
28. Evander Holyfield
29. Gene Tunney
30. Bernard Hopkins

31. Jack Dempsey
32. Manny Pacquiao
33. Eder Jofre
34. Salvador Sanchez
35. Tony Canzoneri
36. Kid Gavilan
37. Ike Williams
38. Charley Burley
39. Floyd Mayweather Jr
40. Emile Griffith

41. Larry Holmes
42. Thomas Hearns
43. Jimmy McLarnin
44. Ruben Olivares
45. Barbados Joe Walcott
46. Tommy Loughran
47. Michael Spinks
48. Jake LaMotta
49. Dick Tiger
50. Jose Napoles

51. Fighting Harada
52. Panama Al Brown
53. Manuel Ortiz
54. Tiger Flowers
55. Kid Chocolate
56. Bob Foster
57. Billy Conn
58. Wilfredo Gomez
59. Carlos Ortiz
60. Terry McGovern

61. Joe Frazier
62. Stanley Ketchel
63. Tommy Ryan
64. George Foreman
65. Jim Jeffries
66. Jack Britton
67. Ted Kid Lewis
68. Carmen Basilio
69. Wilfred Benitez
70. Oscar De La Hoya

71. Felix Trinidad
72. Joe Brown
73. Aaron Pryor
74. Ricardo Lopez
75. Abe Attel
76. Shane Mosley
77. Carlos Zarate
78. Harry Wills
79. Azumah Nelson
80. Pancho Villa

81. Erik Morales
82. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
83. Marco Antonio Barrera
84. Mike Tyson
85. Pascual Perez
86. Miguel Canto
87. Joe Calzaghe
88. Marcel Cerdan
89. Flash Elorde
90. Holman Williams

91. John Dundee
92. Eusebio Pedroza
93. Antonio Cervantes
94. Nicolino Locche
95. Jimmy Bivins
96. Mike McCallum
97. Sonny Liston
98. Khaosai Galaxy
99. Benny Lynch.
100. Bob Montgomery


if you think any boxer is ranked too high or too low or any fighter i miss out , please say your comments.

I like this list better than DINAMITA's....Felix Trinidad is about 25 spots higher on this list. You win on that alone :good

[DINAMITA]

I like this list better than DINAMITA's....Felix Trinidad is about 25 spots higher on this list. You win on that alone :good

If that is your sole basis, then I'm a-ok with that amigo. This list has Trinidad above Rodriguez, Perez, Holman Williams, McCallum. I mean, I'm a Trinidad fan, but there is just no justification for that IMO.

[EL-MATADOR]

If that is your sole basis, then I'm a-ok with that amigo. This list has Trinidad above Rodriguez, Perez, Holman Williams, McCallum. I mean, I'm a Trinidad fan, but there is just no justification for that IMO.

:lol: Just messing with you buddy.

[EL-MATADOR]

I did not include him because I do not believe he merits a place in an all-time top 100.

What about The Great William Joppy?

[Beeston Brawler]

Lennox Lewis, Floyd Mayweather and De La Hoya a bit low.

Calzaghe WAY too high :good

[WhataRock]

Lennox Lewis, Floyd Mayweather and De La Hoya a bit low.

Calzaghe WAY too high :good

Lewis to low at 27??? I think thats way to high already.

I think Hoya is fine where he is in that list..only 1 spot higher than Ive got him in mine..Ive heard arguements for him being a little higher but also some for him being a little lower aswell. I dont think putting him in the 65-80 range is all that unreasonable.

Mayweather at 39 is the absolute highest he would be justified IMO..no way should he go any higher than that..In fact he could go down a few spots if anything.

[Beeston Brawler]

I think Floyd should go higher, either that or Jones should go lower.

I can live with your remarks regarding Lewis however.

DLH is a strange case. Had he been given the nod against Trinidad and Mosley II which he clearly deserved, where would he (and they for that matter) rank?

In addition I guess, with him being a money fighter for pretty much half of his career, where do you think his ability could have taken him?

[WhataRock]

I think Floyd should go higher, either that or Jones should go lower.

I can live with your remarks regarding Lewis however.

DLH is a strange case. Had he been given the nod against Trinidad and Mosley II which he clearly deserved, where would he (and they for that matter) rank?

In addition I guess, with him being a money fighter for pretty much half of his career, where do you think his ability could have taken him?


I consider those wins for De La Hoya...I make my own mind up on decisions like that and that adds to the reasons why I rank him over both Tito and Mosley. I dont think you should just accept the judges decisions in situations like that..in the end it is your list.

You reckon Jones should not be Mayweather? May I ask why, I dont think he should personally. Or are you just saying they should be closer together?
I think RJJ is about 10 spots to high where he is on asero's list though, but thats just my opinion.
I have him in the low 30's from memory.

[asero]

jones is the undisputed p4p king for 1990s and he did show dominance. jones, bhop, holyfield and lewis should be in the same boat.. as for PBF, he is definitely top 3-4 at 130 and a lot of alphabeth title in higher divisions. if he losses just one fight, i put him 62-67.

p4p list is different from ATG list..

[Delroc]

hagler top 10 and you all know it.

[asero]

maybe top 15...n

[asero]

Just had a mad thought whilst going through this list. imgaine if there was a way we could have got all these great fighters to have a pound for pound competition..... obviously wishful thinking



i think it is easier to make a p4p list than an ATG list..
Because in a p4p list you just look at the primest prime of a fighter. his best 2 years may do the trick. longetivity and timeliness has nothing to do with an all-time p4p list

problem with p4p list is that it penalizes the heavyweights..

[Russell]

Jack Johnson at 11. :lol:

Some people don't even have him at 11 in their fucking heavyweight rankings.

[asero]

^^^he haven't have a clear loss..plus, the historical significance of his fights

[Russell]

^^^he haven't have a clear loss..plus, the historical significance of his fights

Oh yes, he had plenty of clear losses.

[asero]

he never had a clear loss in his prime

[Russell]

:lol::lol::lol:

All I can do is laugh at you.

[ninebar]

This is my personal list of top 100 All Time Great Boxers.
personally i use this criteria:

80% accomplishment and historical significance - this
invloves fights with the fellow all-time greats, titles
held, punching power and boxing skills displayed, dominance and
longetivity.

20% timeliness and contribution to the growth of the sport- this also includes mainstream popularity.
Tyson is great but his legacy suffers because it can not
stand the test of time. Monzon's longetivity is matched
by hopkins thus monzon's rankings would go
down. henry armstrong legacy of jumping in weight in a year
is unmatched of more than 50 years...thats so long and he
deserves to be in the top 2 ATG.


1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Sam Langford
6. Harry Greb
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore

11. Jack Johnson
12. Benny Leonard
13. Ray Leonard
14. Pernell Whitaker
15. Carlos Monzon
16. Jimmy Wilde
17. Barney Ross
18. Bob Fitzsimmons
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Joe Gans

21. Sandy Saddler
22. Julio Cesar Chavez
23. Alexis Arguello
24. Mickey Walker
25. Rocky Marciano
26. Roy Jones Jr
27. Lennox Lewis
28. Evander Holyfield
29. Gene Tunney
30. Bernard Hopkins

31. Jack Dempsey
32. Manny Pacquiao
33. Eder Jofre
34. Salvador Sanchez
35. Tony Canzoneri
36. Kid Gavilan
37. Ike Williams
38. Charley Burley
39. Floyd Mayweather Jr
40. Emile Griffith

41. Larry Holmes
42. Thomas Hearns
43. Jimmy McLarnin
44. Ruben Olivares
45. Barbados Joe Walcott
46. Tommy Loughran
47. Michael Spinks
48. Jake LaMotta
49. Dick Tiger
50. Jose Napoles

51. Fighting Harada
52. Panama Al Brown
53. Manuel Ortiz
54. Tiger Flowers
55. Kid Chocolate
56. Bob Foster
57. Billy Conn
58. Wilfredo Gomez
59. Carlos Ortiz
60. Terry McGovern

61. Joe Frazier
62. Stanley Ketchel
63. Tommy Ryan
64. George Foreman
65. Jim Jeffries
66. Jack Britton
67. Ted Kid Lewis
68. Carmen Basilio
69. Wilfred Benitez
70. Oscar De La Hoya

71. Felix Trinidad
72. Joe Brown
73. Aaron Pryor
74. Ricardo Lopez
75. Abe Attel
76. Shane Mosley
77. Carlos Zarate
78. Harry Wills
79. Azumah Nelson
80. Pancho Villa

81. Erik Morales
82. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
83. Marco Antonio Barrera
84. Mike Tyson
85. Pascual Perez
86. Miguel Canto
87. Joe Calzaghe
88. Marcel Cerdan
89. Flash Elorde
90. Holman Williams

91. John Dundee
92. Eusebio Pedroza
93. Antonio Cervantes
94. Nicolino Locche
95. Jimmy Bivins
96. Mike McCallum
97. Sonny Liston
98. Khaosai Galaxy
99. Benny Lynch.
100. Bob Montgomery


if you think any boxer is ranked too high or too low or any fighter i miss out , please say your comments.

Good list i like it.:good


I wont tell you who i think is too high or too low because I'm in the middle of redoing my own list and the undertaking is immense.


Did my Original list over Christmas and it took Day's, but i now have about another 20 fighter's to evaluate and I'm struggling.

[asero]

Good list i like it.:good


I wont tell you who i think is too high or too low because I'm in the middle of redoing my own list and the undertaking is immense.


Did my Original list over Christmas and it took Day's, but i now have about another 20 fighter's to evaluate and I'm struggling.

i would really want to see where you rank jofre...he is for me the most overrated fighter of all-time..still, he is far the best bantam ever

[WhataRock]

i would really want to see where you rank jofre...he is for me the most overrated fighter of all-time..still, he is far the best bantam ever


You have him about 33...about where most people have him from my experience and I dont reckon even his most ardent fans would have him that much in front of that.

[asero]

You have him about 33...about where most people have him from my experience and I dont reckon even his most ardent fans would have him that much in front of that.


i put him at 33 bec he is the best bantam..but he never beat a HOF fighter..the first loss to harada is normal but to loss again in the most important part of his life really takes a toll in his rankings..most of the rankings show that jofre a top 25 guy and harada a top 40 guy...

[ninebar]

i would really want to see where you rank jofre...he is for me the most overrated fighter of all-time..still, he is far the best bantam ever

Well the IBRO have his at 15 All time and i think that is too high, He is somewhat Overrated but i have him at 28.


Like i said i was happy with my First list but now have a lot more boxer's to evaluate that i missed first time so i got a lot of work to do this week.


I have to go but I'll post my Provisional list later and the other fighter's i am looking at that i missed first time.

[BremnerBomber]

I would like to see Ken Buchanan in there somewhere !!!

What do we all think !!!

[ninebar]

This is my list made over Christmas.
I was reasonably happy with it until i looked on these forum's at other people's list's and noticed I'd missed some Great fighters.

Provisional top 100
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Willie Pep
5. Roberto Duran
6. Harry Greb
7. Sugar Ray Leonard
8. Ezzard Charles
9. Sam Langford
10. Joe Louis

11. Pernell Whitaker
12. Archie Moore
13. Jimmy Wilde
14. Jack Johnson
15. Carlos Monzon
16. Micky Walker
17. Julio Cesar Chavez
18. Gene Tunney
19. Benny Leonard
20. Barney Ross

21. Marvin Hagler
22. Sandy Saddler
23. Emile Griffith
24. Bob Fitzsimmons
25. Joe Gans
26. Alexis Arguello
27. Larry Holmes
28. Eder Jofre
29. Evander Holyfield
30. Tommy Hearns

30. Jose Napoles
31. Barbados Joe Walcott
32. Tony Canzoneri
33. Ike Williams
34. Lennox Lewis
35. Salvador Sanchez
36. Rocky Marciano
37. Bob Foster
38. Roy Jones jnr
39. Wifredo Gomez
40. Jimmy McLarnin

41. Fighting Harada
42. Ruben Oliveras
43. Carlos Ortiz
44. Charlie Burley
45. Manny Pacquiao
46. Dick Tiger
47. Kid Gavilan
48. Harry Wills
49. Stanley Ketchel
50. Floyd Mayweather Jnr

51. Michael Spinks
52. Ted Kid Lewis
53. Bernard Hopkins
54. Terry McGovern
55. Luis Rodriguez
56. Jackie “Kid” Berg
57. Pancho Villa
58. Joe Frazier
59. Carmen Basillio
60. George Foreman

61. Billy Conn
62. Jack Dempsey
63. Jake Lamotta
64. Holman Williams
65. Mike Tyson
66. George Dixon
67. Wilfred Benitez
68. Marcel Cerdan
69. Harold Johnson
70. Benny Lynch

71. Sonny Liston
72. Tommy Loughran
73. Lou Ambers
74. Jack Britton
75. Kid Chocolate
76. Panama Al Brown
77. Felix Trinidad
78. Ken Buchanan
79. Jimmy Bivins

80. Erik Morales
81. Marco Antonio Barrera
82. Abe Attell
83. Danny Lopez
84. Freddie Welsh
85. Oscar De La Hoya
86. Mike McCallum
87. Aaron Pryor
88. Ricardo Lopez
89. Gene Fullmer
90. Bob Montgomery

91. Shane Mosley
92. James Toney
93. Miguel Canto
94. Beau Jack
95. Hector Camacho
96. Manuel Ortiz
97. Azumah Nelson
98. Flash Elorde
99. Nicolino Locche
100.Georges Carpentier

[ninebar]

Fighter's I'm still Evaluating:
Joe Calzaghe
Ismael Laguna
Carlos Zarate
Jack Dempsey "The Nonparell"
Jim Jeffries
Young Corbett III
Pasquel Perez
Kostya Tszyu
Jeff Fenech
Winky Wright
Jim Driscoll
Floyd Patterson
Jose Torres
Packey McFarland
Nino Benvenuti
Tony Zale
Rocky Graziano
Tiger Flowers
Eusebio Pedroza
Antonio Cervantes
Sam McVey

Any Thought's, is there anybody else i've Missed that warrants attention.

[BremnerBomber]

Fighter's I'm still Evaluating:
Joe Calzaghe
Ismael Laguna
Carlos Zarate
Jack Dempsey "The Nonparell"
Jim Jeffries
Young Corbett III
Pasquel Perez
Kostya Tszyu
Jeff Fenech
Winky Wright
Jim Driscoll
Floyd Patterson
Jose Torres
Packey McFarland
Nino Benvenuti
Tony Zale
Rocky Graziano
Tiger Flowers
Eusebio Pedroza
Antonio Cervantes
Sam McVey

Any Thought's, is there anybody else i've Missed that warrants attention.



What about Ken Buchanan..... Took the title of Laguna in the heat of Panama... first person to stop Carlos Ortiz..... Was in a competative fight with Duran until he was stopped by a low blow AFTER the bell had rung,
and was never given a rematch from Duran, I think that says something

Beat many Latino fighters who ruled the LW divisions.

[asero]

What about Ken Buchanan..... Took the title of Laguna in the heat of Panama... first person to stop Carlos Ortiz..... Was in a competative fight with Duran until he was stopped by a low blow AFTER the bell had rung,
and was never given a rematch from Duran, I think that says something

Beat many Latino fighters who ruled the LW divisions.


for me, montgomery, ambers and jack have better resume than buchanan..but ken buchanan had a better resume than laguna

[ninebar]

What about Ken Buchanan..... Took the title of Laguna in the heat of Panama... first person to stop Carlos Ortiz..... Was in a competative fight with Duran until he was stopped by a low blow AFTER the bell had rung,
and was never given a rematch from Duran, I think that says something

Beat many Latino fighters who ruled the LW divisions.

He's already in #78 on my top 100

[BremnerBomber]

Sorry must of missed it :patsch

[ninebar]

Sorry must of missed it :patsch

No Problem's, Being Scottish I'd love to have him higher, But i have try to remain impartial.


Great job of Selling Buchanan though BB.:good

[asero]

two guys tied a 30

[ninebar]

two guys tied a 30

No, A Typo, Told you i was struggling.:D

[asero]

No, A Typo, Told you i was struggling.:D


just a quick thought...how would you adjust the rankings of pac, MAB and EM jus in case manny pacquiao losses via KO to hatton

[ninebar]

just a quick thought...how would you adjust the rankings of pac, MAB and EM jus in case manny pacquiao losses via KO to hatton

MAB and Morales stay where they are on Merit.


I Hadn't thought about Pac losing to Hatton.

[asero]

MAB and Morales stay where they are on Merit.


I Hadn't thought about Pac losing to Hatton.

my main reason why i put MAB and EM in the top 85 is because i put pacquiao at 32...if pacquiao losses to hatton then i would have to put MAB and EM in the 92-96 spot..pacquiao slips to 50-60

[WhataRock]

i put him at 33 bec he is the best bantam..but he never beat a HOF fighter..the first loss to harada is normal but to loss again in the most important part of his life really takes a toll in his rankings..most of the rankings show that jofre a top 25 guy and harada a top 40 guy...

He knocked out Salvidar...Who is a HOF fighter.

Guys like Medel and Legra are worthy of HOF if blokes like Zaragoza and McGuigan are...So I dont put to much emphasis on it, the HOF is losing creditibility IMO with there glaring omissions and often bizarre admissions.

[asero]

He knocked out Salvidar...Who is a HOF fighter.

Guys like Medel and Legra are worthy of HOF if blokes like Zaragoza and McGuigan are...So I dont put to much emphasis on it, the HOF is losing creditibility IMO with there glaring omissions and often bizarre admissions.



saldivar is way way pass his prime..

[WhataRock]

saldivar is way way pass his prime..


He is however a HOF fighter..which you seem to put a lot of emphasis on.

If you think Jofre is overrated for not beating a HOF fighter than surely you would have to reconsider that now I have pointed out he has.

[asero]

He is however a HOF fighter..which you seem to put a lot of emphasis on.

If you think Jofre is overrated for not beating a HOF fighter than surely you would have to reconsider that now I have pointed out he has.


it's just sad that his career defining win came against saldivar...we all know that saldivar is not that same after the 2 year lay off...still, in the top 50 ATG, he is the one with the weakest set of victims

[WhataRock]

it's just sad that his career defining win came against saldivar...we all know that saldivar is not that same after the 2 year lay off...still, in the top 50 ATG, he is the one with the weakest set of victims

First of all no one thinks Saldivar is his career defining win..It is what it is, he beat a near shell of Vincente but it must be said Eder was not at his best either. I only brought that up to point out that Jofre had indeed beaten a HOF
If you think that Salvidar is his career defining win just because he is the only guy Jofre beat who is in the HOF (Im havent even checked if that the case yet anyway) than it shows how much of a misguided emphasis you put on whether or not a fighter makes it into the HOF.

Im not so sure you can definitively say that he has the weakest set of victims. There is enough film and resources to gauge how good his opponants were and that can not be said of evey great fighter.

[asero]

First of all no one thinks Saldivar is his career defining win..It is what it is, he beat a near shell of Vincente but it must be said Eder was not at his best either. I only brought that up to point out that Jofre had indeed beaten a HOF
If you think that Salvidar is his career defining win just because he is the only guy Jofre beat who is in the HOF (Im havent even checked if that the case yet anyway) than it shows how much of a misguided emphasis you put on whether or not a fighter makes it into the HOF.

Im not so sure you can definitively say that he has the weakest set of victims. There is enough film and resources to gauge how good his opponants were and that can not be said of evey great fighter.


just look at that list of your top 50 and you would agree with me...jofre has the weakest set of opponents..it is not his fault.. i rank him higher at 33 not because of his accomplishment in his era but because of timeliness..up to now he is the best bantamweight ever..notice make a separate criteria for timeliness and contribution to the growth of boxing(20%) and accomplishment (80%)

[asero]

this is the career record of jofre..please tell me on how you see his resume. do you think his resume is top 50?

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[Marciano Frazier]

I think this is one of the best I've seen. It looks, for the most part, very balanced and well though-through. I do get the sense, though, that there is a bit of a slant towards heavyweights; in my opinion, Jack Johnson is considerably too high, Lennox Lewis much too high, maybe Dempsey a little high, and the Ali and Louis placements are questionable. Personally, I would have guys like Fitzsimmons and Monzon a little higher than you do, as well, but I don't think your placements are unreasonable.

[asero]

HW are rank high because of the historical significance of their career...plus, they are timeless..there is more to the heavyweights than resume