Lets imagine Hagler retired after Duran fight

[Dave's Top Ten]

Would Hearns have been able to step up and dominate things for a few years at MW? This would be a Hearns who avoided a career damaging KO against Hagler. Without that damage I tend to think Tommy could ruled for a few years if that is what he wanted. Thoughts?

[mr. magoo]

I think he certainly could have beaten the very same crop that Hagler defeated. I have doubts however, as to weather Tommy would stay there. Hearns was not a great lover of pitching a tent in one division for any lengthy period of time. I think after dominating the middleweight ranks for a while, he may have called out Leonard early or perhaps even ascended to the lightheavyweight ranks to challenge Spinks. In either case, I don't see him sitting in one place long.

[DINAMITA]

I think Hearns could have and would have ruled the middleweights, definitely.

[Jear]

Without Hagler and Leonard to challenge and make big $$$$ against, I see Tommy chasing mega fights with, Spinks, Qawi or EMM at light heavy. Hearns was never scared of challenges and with no big name fights at middle and not having the Hagler scars I think he would believe he had a legitimate shot at these guys.

[FromWithin]

Do you guys think Hearns would beat Mugabi?

[PowerPuncher]

If he has to face McCallum, Graham, Kalambay, Mugabi, Barkley, Nunn, Leonard 2 he is going to pick up losses

[Jear]

If he has to face McCallum, Graham, Kalambay, Mugabi, Barkley, Nunn, Leonard 2 he is going to pick up losses

Who of those do you pick to beat him and when? I know Barkley 88 is the obvious answer, my thoughts are had Tommy been champion at that time it may have been stopped on cuts, besides Tommy was already flirting with light heavy and another shot at Hagler or Leonard might have been the only thing holding him back

[redrooster]

Would Hearns have been able to step up and dominate things for a few years at MW? This would be a Hearns who avoided a career damaging KO against Hagler. Without that damage I tend to think Tommy could ruled for a few years if that is what he wanted. Thoughts?

I dont think Tommy could achieve this. Many people think Tommy could but he wouldnt. In his first defense, he was matched with a lower ranked middleweight and still couldnt get past him.

I believe the Roldan that faced Hagler would have destroyed Tommy

[redrooster]

Do you guys think Hearns would beat Mugabi?

50/50

both are big punchers with so so chins so neither one is safe

[Dave's Top Ten]

I dont think Tommy could achieve this. Many people think Tommy could but he wouldnt. In his first defense, he was matched with a lower ranked middleweight and still couldnt get past him.

I believe the Roldan that faced Hagler would have destroyed Tommy


I dunno, Red. We have to imagine a Hearns that avoided the shellacking he got from Hagler. I actually can't imagine many fighters being able to come back from such a beat down as Tommy managed to. It was a career ending KO. I think a Hearns that didn't suffer that traumatic KO would have had a great shot at beating all the names listed above if he'd decided to stay at MW.

[redrooster]

I dunno, Red. We have to imagine a Hearns that avoided the shellacking he got from Hagler. I actually can't imagine many fighters being able to come back from such a beat down as Tommy managed to. It was a career ending KO. I think a Hearns that didn't suffer that traumatic KO would have had a great shot at beating all the names listed above if he'd decided to stay at MW.

I would agree Dave but how do you explain his next fight with Shuler? he seemed to show no ill effects at all.

I seriously think Tommy would need to do some careful opponent selection. Although Tommy would certainly do more than someone like say, Ray Leonard (he made no defenses) Tommy would have to be careful. He couldnt just fight anyone.


He could never have faced the opposition Hagler faced and lived to talk about it. Even the version of Roldan faced by Hagler had been seriously compromised. Had it been the 84 version I think Tommy would have exited early.

What if he had faced the Fully Obel of 1982?? That was a seriously dangerous opponent. One big right hand would have put Tommy out. I am not kidding! Obel was a big man; 6-2 and with a sturdy frame.

Look at the second round of his rematch with Hagler. Here we see a greatly improved fighter over what we saw in the first fight. Obel landed 2 or 3 right hands flush on the jaw of Hagler, forcing him to step back and regroup. Tommy never would have handled such blows successfully. These guys could bang!

No, Tommy would not last long as champion and probably wind up a cheese champion. Owning a split title would help him though. Beating Middleweights such as Kinchen and Dewitt is about as far as he gets.

[Jear]

I would agree Dave but how do you explain his next fight with Shuler? he seemed to show no ill effects at all.

I seriously think Tommy would need to do some careful opponent selection. Although Tommy would certainly do more than someone like say, Ray Leonard (he made no defenses) Tommy would have to be careful. He couldnt just fight anyone.


He could never have faced the opposition Hagler faced and lived to talk about it. Even the version of Roldan faced by Hagler had been seriously compromised. Had it been the 84 version I think Tommy would have exited early.

What if he had faced the Fully Obel of 1982?? That was a seriously dangerous opponent. One big right hand would have put Tommy out. I am not kidding! Obel was a big man; 6-2 and with a sturdy frame.

Look at the second round of his rematch with Hagler. Here we see a greatly improved fighter over what we saw in the first fight. Obel landed 2 or 3 right hands flush on the jaw of Hagler, forcing him to step back and regroup. Tommy never would have handled such blows successfully. These guys could bang!

No, Tommy would not last long as champion and probably wind up a cheese champion. Owning a split title would help him though. Beating Middleweights such as Kinchen and Dewitt is about as far as he gets.


Hagler fought Duran in 83 so it is moot whether he could beat Obel. Obel was basically fighting at light heavy by the time the thread is directed at. At the time the question was asked i dont really see much at middle id seriously make a favourite over Tommy. Maybe Obel would have stayed at middle with Hagler gone but as you said he was a big man who really struggled to stay at 160 his whole career

[redrooster]

Hagler fought Duran in 83 so it is moot whether he could beat Obel. Obel was basically fighting at light heavy by the time the thread is directed at. At the time the question was asked i dont really see much at middle id seriously make a favourite over Tommy. Maybe Obel would have stayed at middle with Hagler gone but as you said he was a big man who really struggled to stay at 160 his whole career

Well I would say that Obel outgrew the middleweight division the way Tommy outgrew the welters. but Hagler had the misfortune of having to fight him not once but twice.

Tommy would have had problems with the more rugged middleweights Sibson, Hamsho, Roldan. When it came down to endurance it was no contest. When it came down to chin it was no contest. These guys would have a fight on their hands but they would prevail. They were too determined and I have to think Tommy would not last long at the top.

The way I see it, he never did that well with middleweights and he didnt even have that many fights there. Kinchen came within a hair of beating him and was past his prime himself as was Roldan. and Dewitt-what was he? Barkley beat him too. so there's not much there but by 1985 he made a hell of a challenger

[MAG1965]

Hearns would have stopped Sibson. Hearns was quick and beat the guy who beat Sibson later Andries. Hearns right hand was too fast for Tony. Hamsho would have been tough ,but a quick Hearns prior to the Hagler beating would have stopped Hamsho on cuts similar to the first Hagler fight. Let's not make Hagler middleweight opposition into great fighters. Roldan was a guy Hearns already stopped. The Kinchen fight you talk about was at 168 pounds. Most of the guys Hagler beat Tommy would have beaten. Tommy did well with guys who were his height of 6-2 so Fully Obel would have been no trouble. Tommy did everything better than Obel.

[MAG1965]

50/50

both are big punchers with so so chins so neither one is safemore like 85-15 in favor of Hearns. Mugabi could not take Duane Thomas and Norris, so how would he beat Hearns. You say he gave Hagler hell, but Hagler did not punch near what Thomas Hearns did. Juan Roldan was asked who punches harder? Hagler or Hearns and he said immediately Hearns.

[MAG1965]

I dont think Tommy could achieve this. Many people think Tommy could but he wouldnt. In his first defense, he was matched with a lower ranked middleweight and still couldnt get past him.

I believe the Roldan that faced Hagler would have destroyed Tommy
The Roldan that Hagler fought was no better than the one Tommy fought. As a matter of fact, Roldan had much more experience with Tommy, having fought Kinchen on the undercard of Hagler/Leonard. Hearns after Hagler diminished a little. He became a little slower and was on the ropes more and didn't have the same sharp reflexes anymore. Had Hagler not occured, he would have busted up all the guys Marvin did. But after Hagler/Hearns, Tommy became more of a brawler. I do not know why. Also another Hearns problem was that after Hagler he never stayed at one division long enough. He went up and down all the time.

[MAG1965]

If he has to face McCallum, Graham, Kalambay, Mugabi, Barkley, Nunn, Leonard 2 he is going to pick up losses
who is the fighter that faced all those guys? That is a hard list. Hearns would have done well to stay at middleweight and get comfortable at the weight if he were to face those guys. But those guys would have been tough for Hagler also. Graham I think Hearns would beat by late knockout. Kalambay he would eek by in a decision. Mugabi he would knockout. John never could take a solid punch. Nunn? That is a tough fight as is McCallum. Pickem on those two fights. I think McCallum would have been easier for Tommy to beat but Nunn would have been tough.