Calzaghe announces retirement

[antcull]

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[BamBam]

Let the hating commence. No doubt there will be plenty of people who think he should fight again but he's earned the right to go out when he wants to.

[djoc175]

Good riddance.

But I hope people don't say hes ducking Chad Dawson by doing this.Its been coming

[ryanm8655]

Great fighter, sad to see him go...really wanted to see him fight hopkins in cardiff...

His Legacy doesn't feel complete to me...

[djoc175]

Great fighter, sad to see him go...really wanted to see him fight hopkins in cardiff...

His Legacy doesn't feel complete to me...
Fuck his legacy,thats all he talked about and all he fought for.Enzo didn't help either constantly banging on about it

[Fat Joe]

Great fighter, sad to see him go.

:deal

[JonOli]

As a man I say fair play to him, but as a boxer, personally, I think his career leaves lots of unanswered questions. If you look at him as an ATG that is....

[brown bomber]

Every credit.... fantastic career. Never beaten and beat some great names from the past. I'd definately put him alongside Benn and Eubank and just ahead of Collins and Watson. One of the best British fighters of recent years.

[Beeston Brawler]

Is that are carefully disguised dig Jeff?

I concur 100% anyways.... though perhaps he heads the list, but not by much.

[Guy]

I feel Deflated.... after the last few whoopings he gave out i'd hoped we could have had one more.

I don't blame him though, just sad one of the greatest fighter to come out of the U.K is gone.

P4P number 1# has gone...... :sad2 (IMO)

[brown bomber]

Not at all BB... thats the reality of his career, shame he was't around a few years before because we may have seen him suffer the first L of his career but he would have at least had a bit more legitamacy rather then that manufactured feel.

[Beeston Brawler]

I totally agree.

The obsession with remaining undefeated is ruining boxing.

Plenty of top class fighters, especially past but some current..... suffered early losses.

Look at Vasquez and Marquez, both suffered more than one stoppage loss early in their careers and look where they got....... right to the pinnacle.

Calzaghe never really did, though he could have done.

[icemax]

Good riddance.

But I hope people don't say hes ducking Chad Dawson by doing this.Its been coming

Ditto

[icemax]

Enzo didn't help either constantly banging on about it

The added benefit of Joe hanging them up is that we may not see as much of the poisonous dwarf that is Enzo :happy

[TheChamp1000]

Just heard froch 'praise' calzaghe on setanta.
He basically trashed him and reminded us that he is trying to get a fight with taylor.
Classy guy.

[Beeston Brawler]

That's the best thing to come out of Joe calling it a day.

Less of Enzo.

[toffeejack]

The correct decision in my opinion.

Congrats on a great career Joe, you are Britian's finest post war boxer and will go down a legend.

[brown bomber]

Heavyweight champion Rocky Marciano with 49 wins in 49 fights and strawweight and light-flyweight Ricardo Lopez of Mexico, with 51 wins in 51 fights also retired undefeated.

.......Incorrect... BBC you fail.

[Beeston Brawler]

You fail as well Jeffro.......

Look at Lopez again ;)

[Beeston Brawler]

Oops I fail....

Didn't read the post properly

:patsch

[brown bomber]

You fail as well Jeffro.......

Look at Lopez again ;)I don't need to.... Rosendo Alvarez drew with Lopez.... That was my point... the first paragraph was from the website.

[scurlaruntings]

Good riddance. Im glad boxing has finally seen the back of him. History will forget him equally as fast. The only thing that ever mattered to Joe was his precious 0 and the WBO. One of boxings finest opportunist who when all was said and done had to the audacity to proclaim boxing is a "dying sport".

[brown bomber]

I don't need to.... Rosendo Alvarez drew with Lopez.... That was my point... the first paragraph was from the website.Too slow to reply.... I fail...:lol:

[Beeston Brawler]

Good riddance. Im glad boxing has finally seen the back of him. History will forget him equally as fast. The only thing that ever mattered to Joe was his precious 0 and the WBO. One of boxings finest opportunist who when all was said and done had to the audacity to proclaim boxing is a "dying sport".

Ouch :lol:

[c woodhouse]

top fighter well done joe! just looking at his record scored a lot of early stoppeges early in his career underated power? not seen many of his early fights

[Tuffnutz]

He failed to give hopkins the rematch he deserved because he knew that the old man had figured him out and wouldbeat him twice.

Yes,twice!

Twice because Hopkins won the first fight and took Joe's 0.

Like Scurla said, History won't look back on Calzaghe too well and there will always be question marks over his career.

[mike464]

He'll be the perfect example of how being undefeated doesn't mean a thing - provided anyone remembers him in 10 years.

[TFFP]

Christ he looks fat in the face there. Looks like he made this decision a while ago.

And :lol: at the BBC poll.

[alba]

its funny seeing all the yank and wank haters on this thread.

more front than southend

[Tuffnutz]

That BBC poll is fucking bollox.

Lennox is the GOAT!

[PrideOfWales]

Here we go...

[phonk]

Don't understand all this hate for Calzaghe

[Decebal]

Good decision! Thanks for the memories, Joe! :clap:

[scurlaruntings]

He'll be the perfect example of how being undefeated doesn't mean a thing - provided anyone remembers him in 10 years.Sven Ottke retired undefeated. No one really remembers him that much and not with much fondness either. At least Sven fought a few guys who were in there prime. Joe meanwhile refused to fight Ottke and fought a bunch of pastries instead until he cashed in his chips when Lacy came to town. Marvelously talented fighter theres no question about that but his career ledger is shambolic. When it mattered most it NEVER happened. Besting Hopkins in a spurious decision and Jones who has more holes in now than swiss cheese is hardly the right punctuation for a socalled glittering career. The man was a classic right time right place guy who did VERY well from boxing and gave NOTHING back to the sport that treated him so well. Good riddance to bad rubbish i say and i hope him and his fucking senile father are reading this.

[scurlaruntings]

its funny seeing all the yank and wank haters on this thread.

more front than southend
Let me guess you didnt sit through his matches with Tocker Pudwill, Brazilian cab drivers and guys with no vowels in there names?

[Beeston Brawler]

I think you are being a bit kind to Enzo there Scurla...... I'd say calling him scenile is complimentary.

Out of interest.... question for you (and anybody else who cares to answer btw)..... who would you have said were his best opponents post-Eubank, pre-Lacy?

Reid and Woodhall?

[scurlaruntings]

Reid.

[Beeston Brawler]

And your scorecard for that one?

[PrideOfWales]

OK guys... simple question here. Out of Calzaghe's potential foes in and around his division, the stand out ones are:


Roy Jones
Bernard Hopkins
Sven Ottke
Daruisz Michalczewski


If you add Calzaghe to that list, out of the 5 boxers and the 9 potential fights that could have happened, how many of them did?

The answer is 3 and it can be argued that at least 2 of those meant little at the time they took place.

Is it really ALL Calzaghe's fault? Or is it the sport of boxing that let's things like this slide?

[scurlaruntings]

And your scorecard for that one?114-113 Joe.

[Tuffnutz]

Let me guess you didnt sit through his matches with Tocker Pudwill, Brazilian cab drivers and guys with no vowels in there names?
:lol:

[ninebar]

OK guys... simple question here. Out of Calzaghe's potential foes in and around his division, the stand out ones are:


Roy Jones
Bernard Hopkins
Sven Ottke
Daruisz Michalczewski

If you add Calzaghe to that list, out of the 5 boxers and the 9 potential fights that could have happened, how many of them did?

The answer is 3 and it can be argued that at least 2 of those meant little at the time they took place.

Is it really ALL Calzaghe's fault? Or is it the sport of boxing that let's things like this slide?


No, not all Calzaghe's fault, Frank ****** must shoulder some of the blame.
Some Great fight's were there to be made and didn't, it's a shame that Calzaghe didn't get to fight Jones till he was shot, that fight should have been made year's ago.

[icemax]

Sven Ottke retired undefeated. No one really remembers him that much and not with much fondness either. At least Sven fought a few guys who were in there prime. Joe meanwhile refused to fight Ottke and fought a bunch of pastries instead until he cashed in his chips when Lacy came to town. Marvelously talented fighter theres no question about that but his career ledger is shambolic. When it mattered most it NEVER happened. Besting Hopkins in a spurious decision and Jones who has more holes in now than swiss cheese is hardly the right punctuation for a socalled glittering career. The man was a classic right time right place guy who did VERY well from boxing and gave NOTHING back to the sport that treated him so well. Good riddance to bad rubbish i say and i hope him and his fucking senile father are reading this.

Fucking well said that man

[scurlaruntings]

OK guys... simple question here. Out of Calzaghe's potential foes in and around his division, the stand out ones are:


Roy Jones
Bernard Hopkins
Sven Ottke
Daruisz Michalczewski


If you add Calzaghe to that list, out of the 5 boxers and the 9 potential fights that could have happened, how many of them did?

The answer is 3 and it can be argued that at least 2 of those meant little at the time they took place.

Is it really ALL Calzaghe's fault? Or is it the sport of boxing that let's things like this slide?3? What are you talking about? Joe never fought Darius or Sven. Now as for being Joes fault it was WHOLLY Joes OWN fault. The man was legendary for pulling out of bouts. So much so that Lacy demanded a down payment BEFORE they fought because of Joes bullshit previously with Johnson where he pulled out twice. Even ****** grew tiresome of his antics and had to encourage Joe to lace them up because he was going to pull of out of the Lacy fight.

Now if Joe wanted to face the big names he could have but the facts remain when it mattered most he DIDNT. He refused to participate in Don Kings middleweight tourny. His bout with Thomas Tate fell through because tate was sooo old and decided to retire so we got Pudwill instead. Then his bout with Telesco at 75 fell through as Joe said he couldnt make 168 anymore. Lo and behold he stayed at 68 and fought Mger whateverthefuck his name was instead. Even bouts with Joppy went by the by. And these were all to get him name recogition in the states. There was even talks of domestic clashes with Eastman (when he was unbeatean) and Woods. These could have been huge domestic clashes they never happened.

As for the Sven bout Joe refused to fly to Germany. Likewise Sven wouldnt come to Britain. Joe apparently had a fear of flying. But Joe flew to Scadinavia to fight Kevin "ceasefire" Mcyintyre on the Tyson undercard??!?! That bout was soooo woefully poor that even Joe petitioned the ref to stop it as Kevin was nothing more than a basic clubfighter. And lets not forget his padded bouts with Kabery, Jiminez who Joe couldnt even dent and was a part time boxer! and the Chef Mario Veit as he really needed to fight him twice didnt he?! O yes but he did because Veit was his WBO mandatory!

All in all his career ledger isnt up to much. Decent but hardly the ledger of an ATG as proclaimed loudly by his fans.

[scurlaruntings]

No, not all Calzaghe's fault, Frank ****** must shoulder some of the blame.
Some Great fight's were there to be made and didn't, it's a shame that Calzaghe didn't get to fight Jones till he was shot, that fight should have been made year's ago.Joe laced them up not Frank. Joe was making easy money defending the WBO thats why he stayed on these shores. When Joe wanted the big fights and of course the big money he left ****** for dust. So that argument doesnt hold much water as it wasnt ****** holding him back. They both made VERY good money together. Joe simply didnt want those fights nor did he need them.

[FLINT ISLAND]

The problem is with Calzaghe is as JonOli said IF WE ARE JUDGING HIM AS A ALL TIME GREAT

Thats the problem

Dont set a standard and judge him by that

Let his career set the standard that he can be judged by

Joe is one of the best British Boxers of the modern era

46-0 dont really mean anything deep other than he is a winner

If he had fought prime Eubank, Benn, Toney, Roy Jones, Hopkins, etc etc then he might have a couple of Losses on his record

But he would be competitve with anyone

He is a very good fighter

Deceptively good - grinds out wins with bitch slaps -

And Hopkins Pavlik win further boosts Joes Credit

A bit of a cunt at times

A egotiscal penny pinching money grabber too........cos I heard he runour he tried to skank PrideOfWales out of ticket money for his fight

But least he has not given in to greed and stupid foolish pride by fighting on

He is one of Britains best boxers of the modern era

Consistent and Solid and Successful

AND A BIT OF A CUNT

[FLINT ISLAND]

Got to say I am disappointed he never accepted the Froch challenge

But I always suspected he didnt fancy it

Of course Joe would be favorite for the fight and could well win

But I just didnt think he wanted to risk it by tangling with a man who has way more to gain than Calzaghe out of the fight

[scurlaruntings]

Please explain to me "HOW" Pavlik Hopkins boosts his career ledger?

For the life of me il never understand such poor and backwards logic. Pavlik loses handily to Hop. Joe never fought Pavlik. But he fought Hop and won a disputed and debatable decision. But somehow Joe gets points because Hopkins beat up Pavlik?!??! WTF!?

[scurlaruntings]

Got to say I am disappointed he never accepted the Froch challenge

But I always suspected he didnt fancy it

Of course Joe would be favorite for the fight and could well win

But I just didnt think he wanted to risk it by tangling with a man who has way more to gain than Calzaghe out of the fightHe was/is a ****** fighter to the last. As least risk as possible for the MOST reward.

[ninebar]

Joe laced them up not Frank. Joe was making easy money defending the WBO thats why he stayed on these shores. When Joe wanted the big fights and of course the big money he left ****** for dust. So that argument doesnt hold much water as it wasnt ****** holding him back. They both made VERY good money together. Joe simply didnt want those fights nor did he need them.

I said Some of the blame.


Maybe ****** was holding him back, Maybe Joe was comfortable with this until he started hearing criticism that he was a protected fighter and it was hurting his legacy.



And you say it there yourself, Why leave ****** if he was doing the best for Joe. Because maybe he was holding him back and charging too much for the privilage.

[brown bomber]

I rescored the other day... I gave it to zag by a couple of rounds but only because reid made a shocking start and gave away the first four rounds. Reid bossed the fight after that. This is the same Reid who was outscored by Sugarboy Malinga and Silvio Branco and stuggled with Hassine Cherifi FFS... Reid seriously good euro level operator. Hopkins I thought won the figh handily... If I was scoring in favour of who landed the most punches you have to give it to Calzaghe, on any other basis he lost the fight... Hopkins schooled him pretty much throughout. Is Hopkins an ATG light heavy??? No way... ATG middle - definately.

Eubank came extremely close to knocking him out in the final seconds of their fight, Kabery Salem floored him, Byron Mitchell nearly pancaked him, Hopkins floored him, the ghost of Roy Jones Jnr floored him and took a few rounds of him.

Pre Eubank he was ok... his win over Mark Delaney was a fair one, as was his stoppage of former good amateur Steve Wilson... that was actually a fairly competitive fight and appeared on Eurosport or ITV.

The rest of his 22 pre eubank wins came at an extremely questionable level with the few fighters capable of testing him turning up horribly out of shape or not putting up a fight- perhaps intimidated by his impressive KO ratio.

Title reign

Branco Sobot.... unknown coming in... impressive performance.. lovely uppercut starting the finish. Sobot went 4-10 (0) in his remaining fights.

Giminez.... near enough shut out by an off key nigel benn...Calzaghe becomes the first to stop him on an injury... Jiminez had a massively inflated record and never beat anyone of note.

Reid.... Reids last good performance came 12 months earlier against henry wharton... going into the fight he had two awful performances against cherifi and malinga (a win and a loss) many observers thought he was unfotunate not to get the decision. No rematch.

Thornberry.....had been hammered a couple of years earlier by henry wharton... hadn't beaten anyone since, and took joe the distance... Calzaghe was massively unimpressive.

Starie... was a good fighter... had been looking mediocre through much of 1999 when offered a suprise title shot... the fight was a non event... it was oneof the worst fights i've ever seen. Starie who had been ko'd by dean francis would go on to lose to Andre thyse for the commonwealth title.

[brown bomber]

more to follow sit tight

[FLINT ISLAND]

What about Enzo Calzaghr?

Where does this leave the Calzaghe camp?

What about Enzo "Big Mac" Maccarnelli?

There will be no more dinners after weigh ins now between Enzo and Joe

The Calzaghe camp is weakened by this

I just feel some leading spirit and moral will be knocked out of the camp

Joe was the leading light.............an example to them of what was possible

Who do they look up to now??????????????????????????

Its time Enzo Maccarnelli reclaimed the WBO Crusierweight Title and lead the Calzaghe Camp into a new era

[FLINT ISLAND]

Please explain to me "HOW" Pavlik Hopkins boosts his career ledger?

For the life of me il never understand such poor and backwards logic. Pavlik loses handily to Hop. Joe never fought Pavlik. But he fought Hop and won a disputed and debatable decision. But somehow Joe gets points because Hopkins beat up Pavlik?!??! WTF!?

Course it boosts his ledger

It shows Hopkins was not a shot old man but a ATG

Calzaghe held his own with Hopkins

The Hopkins goes off and dominates a young champion and shows how good he really is

Like I said Calzaghe is deceptively good

[scurlaruntings]

O didnt you know Enzo is a trainer of champions. He can go back to training his fat Welsh lightweight. Better yet he will postively fade into obscurity never to heard from again.

[PrideOfWales]

3? What are you talking about? Joe never fought Darius or Sven.

To answer the rest of your post you first have to understand where I'm coming from.

The number 3 is the total number of bouts that happened between ANY of the five boxers I listed.

Roy Jones vs Bernard Hopkins
Bernard Hopkins vs Joe Calzaghe
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones

Now as I said, at least 2 of these bouts mean little. But these guys just didn't fight each other and Calzaghe was only 1 member of the 5. Yes you have a point with him pulling out of a couple of fights but with the exception of Johnson... the other fights would have meant little.

[alba]

more to follow sit tight


its fair to say though,and you missed it off your list ,that he avoided me.We had an offer on the table to fight joe in wales,and the money was more than he would have got for the robin reid fight.

mmmmm

[scurlaruntings]

Course it boosts his ledger

It shows Hopkins was not a shot old man but a ATG

Calzaghe held his own with Hopkins

The Hopkins goes off and dominates a young champion and shows how good he really is

Like I said Calzaghe is deceptively goodTheres nothing deceptive about being good. Joe struggled to beat a 44 year old man. End of story end of thread. He looked crap, was shown to be an amateur and won a spurious decision. Meanwhile back on planet earth.... Hopkins beats up Pavlik. Shane beats up Magarito. And Pac Smashed up DLH. Nothing deceptively good about those performances there my friend. We KNOW there good thats why there all bonafide ATG`s.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Hopkins was undefeated for fucking years as Champ

Then he lost twice close decsions to Jermain Taylor................styles make fights

Then Hopkins goes up to Light Heavyweight and Completly dominates the No1 Antonio Tarver

Then Hopkins cannot dominate Calzaghe and loses a tight decsion

Then Hopkins dominates Kelly Pavlik

Hopkins has struggled with 2 men in the last 10+ years - Taylor and Calzaghe

Thats how good Calzaghe is

[scurlaruntings]

Hopkins was undefeated for fucking years as Champ

Then he lost twice close decsions to Jermain Taylor................styles make fights

Then Hopkins goes up to Light Heavyweight and Completly dominates the No1 Antonio Tarver

Then Hopkins cannot dominate Calzaghe and loses a tight decsion

Then Hopkins dominates Kelly Pavlik

Hopkins has struggled with 2 men in the last 10+ years - Taylor and Calzaghe

Thats how good Calzaghe isSo good infact that he never fought Tarver or Pavlik. But supposition allows you think that he beats them on the virtue of a debatable win over Hopkins. Yes makes perfect sense now. Cheers.:patsch

[FLINT ISLAND]

Scurla

Can Enzo Maccarenelli now take over from Joe Calzaghe as the new leading light in the Calzaghe Camp / Welsh / British Boxing ????????

[FLINT ISLAND]

Nah Scurla I'm not getting drawn in to wether he would beat Pavlik or Tarver or Taylor
etc

I'm just saying that his fight with Hopkins looks like a good performance when you see how Hopkins dominated guys either side of the Calzaghe fight

[TFFP]

Pretty good resume, but could have been a lot better. Purely on a resume basis he may just sneak into a top 100 list. Maybe. Just.

His ability can't be questioned. He just always got the job done, no matter how he looked.

[Guy]

Theres nothing deceptive about being good. Joe struggled to beat a 44 year old man. End of story end of thread. He looked crap, was shown to be an amateur and won a spurious decision. Meanwhile back on planet earth.... Hopkins beats up Pavlik. Shane beats up Magarito. And Pac Smashed up DLH. Nothing deceptively good about those performances there my friend. We KNOW there good thats why there all bonafide ATG`s.

Now I know your blowing smoke out off your ass:lol::lol::lol:
Joe bitch slapped Hopkins until he didn't know what to do except feign low blows.
Shane beat Margarito yep so did Williams, and Cotto might have except for the wraps.
Hopkins exposed Pavlik as one dimensional, Joe would have embarrassed him.
.....Pac versus the ghost of Del a Hoya, boring as shit ,It helps if the other man can lift his gloves

[janitor]

If he stays retired then he will be only the second lineal champion ever to remain undefeated and untied.

[achillesthegreat]

Disappointed he didn't fight Dawson to cement his 175 legacy.

[TFFP]

Disappointed he didn't fight Dawson to cement his 175 legacy.
Me too, that was a very interesting fight to be made.

[scurlaruntings]

Now I know your blowing smoke out off your ass:lol::lol::lol:
Joe bitch slapped Hopkins until he didn't know what to do except feign low blows.
Shane beat Margarito yep so did Williams, and Cotto might have except for the wraps.
Hopkins exposed Pavlik as one dimensional, Joe would have embarrassed him.
.....Pac versus the ghost of Del a Hoya, boring as shit ,It helps if the other man can lift his glovesGo away. When you` ve been a fan of boxing longer than an hour you come see me ok child. :roll:

[PrideOfWales]

Pretty good resume, but could have been a lot better. Purely on a resume basis he may just sneak into a top 100 list. Maybe. Just.

His ability can't be questioned. He just always got the job done, no matter how he looked.

It seems that winning is not enough I'm afraid. Unless he perfected his punching technique, never used a promoter for promotion purposes, only had 26 relevent fights (none for the WBO), was highly motivated every time and was upbeat about boxing as Steve Bunce - then and only then can I accept that he was a good champion worthy of comparison to some of the best British boxers since 2005.

[Fat Joe]

I This is the same Reid who was outscored by Sugarboy Malinga

The same Malinga who beat Nigel Benn twice IMO.

[ishy]

A great fighter who could have achieved more.

Hope he enjoys retirement and doesn't get lured back into the ring.

[ninebar]

his fight with Hopkins looks like a good performance when you see how Hopkins dominated guys either side of the Calzaghe fight

A good win, the performance was shit.


And i agree with what you saying about Hopkins, He looked old and past his sell by date against Calzaghe but came back to dominate Pavlik with an outstanding performance proving that he wasn't finished after all.


I'm gad Calzaghe never re-matched Hopkins because the style clash was shocking.

[TFFP]

I don't think he performed shit against Hopkins. I assumed he did immediately post-fight, but the more I watch it the more I thought he did extremely well against the worst style he could ever face.

[Buggo]

I'm disappointed and a bit shocked. For all of Joe’s talk about legacy, his last fight was against a man who was nearly a decade past his peak.

I really thought he would have had one last bout in Wales.

Everyone knows of the question marks and holes regarding Calzaghe’s career, but he did unify the SM division and for that I salute him!

[Guy]

Hopkins v Calzaghe-Just Awful
Hopkins v Pavlik-Memerising

[Buggo]

I'm disappointed and a bit shocked. For all of Joe’s talk about legacy, his last fight was against a man who was nearly a decade past his peak.

I really thought he would have had one last bout in Wales.

Everyone knows of the question marks and holes regarding Calzaghe’s career, but he did unify the SM division and for that I salute him!

[PrideOfWales]

I don't think he performed shit against Hopkins. I assumed he did immediately post-fight, but the more I watch it the more I thought he did extremely well against the worst style he could ever face.

I thought at the time that ANY kind of win against Hopkins will do because he always struggled when he was facing a boxer happy to stay on the back foot all night. He won, desired result achieved. Would I like to have seen a better performance? Of course. But a win's a win against the most canny, technically best boxer he fought who went on to destroy a much fancied younger power puncher in his next fight.

But if nothing else, Calzaghe should be remembered for those fantasic events against Lacy and Kessler. They were great nights.

[trotter]

He is one of Britains best boxers of the modern era

Consistent and Solid and Successful

AND A BIT OF A CUNT

Hehe Flint you fucking crack me up man


All in all I think Joe is bowing out at the right time. He can't really enhance his standing at this point. He was a great fighter I'd say. Not many fighters are unanimously rated as no 1 or 2 p4p unless they are half decent.

With more reliable hands he could've done more. Remarkable competitiveness, fighting spirit, speed, skill, intelligence. He pretty much had the full package.

The questions will always remain about him not facing RJJ and Hopkins in their prime but those questions will hang over the other guys too, to a degree.

[Fat Joe]

Scurlaranting who do you hold in most contempt, Fatton or Slappy?

[brown bomber]

Omar Sheika.... had lost to Tony Booth,,, with respect, nuff said.

Woodhall....so impressive when winning the title had looked short of world class once he came to defending it turning in a number of so so perfomances including a loss to beyer.... He gave zag a fair fight though..

Veit.... untested pre zag, gets smashed to pieces.... zaggy impressive. poor viet who was a good fighter never made it to top level. more on him later....

Will Mcintyre..... more padding then the michelins mans space suit.

Brewer... at least four years past his best, herol graham floored him, Antwun echols ko'd him just one fight before the zaggy one...Brewer cnsidered chinny took zag the distance and battled him all the way.

miguel angel giminez...shut out by brian magee in his very next fight... Calzaghe ground out a dull points win.

Tocker pudwill....less sid about this one the better really... pudwills resume was poor but not as poor as his performance tonight.

Mitchell.... came into the fight off a loss... had lossed to bruno girard and sven ottke. floored zaggy and nearly upset him bfore a badly timed stoppage.

Mkrtchian... came to the fight with a largely empty record. didn't go on to achieve much else.

Salem... floored zaggy, took him the distance and came into the fight off a loss.

Veit.... .... zzzzz

Ashira... no big wins... had been ko'd in two rounds one fight earliar.

Lacy....was meant to be the big thing... never happened... never will.

Bika.....zaggy barely wins a mingfest... hardly impressive against a guy yet to prove himself at world class.

Manfredo.... no comment.

Kessler.... good European class fighter who wouln't have had a look in in the Benn/Jones jnr era...

Hopkins... a great middle, many thought he did enough.. floored zag

Jones jnr...... so horribly past his best its embarassing to even call this a victory.

There you go... let the hate begin.

[PrideOfWales]

Hehe Flint you fucking crack me up man


All in all I think Joe is bowing out at the right time. He can't really enhance his standing at this point. He was a great fighter I'd say. Not many fighters are unanimously rated as no 1 or 2 p4p unless they are half decent.

With more reliable hands he could've done more. Remarkable competitiveness, fighting spirit, speed, skill, intelligence. He pretty much had the full package.

The questions will always remain about him not facing RJJ and Hopkins in their prime but those questions will hang over the other guys too, to a degree.

To be fair, Hopkins & Jones (in particular) had no reason to chase Calzaghe... I can't blame RJJ for that not happening earlier. Indeed, a prime Jones would have beaten Calzaghe pretty handily. Hopkins famously pulled out of an agreed fight with Joe at a time when Hopkins' stock was as high as it ever would be.

[JonOli]

"worst style he could ever face"

The only quality boxer he ever faced that was in any shape you mean. 43 at that as well.

I really can't believe how overrated Kessler is on here and it's only through the drop out in US boxing that his currency is worth anything.

[scurlaruntings]

Scurlaranting who do you hold in most contempt, Fatton or Slappy?Both. If i had to choose probably Hatton as he has been a consumate fraud. At least Joe had talent in abundance. Hatton on the other hand is fraud.

[Axe]

P4P number 1# has gone...... :sad2 (IMO)

...gone to fight Ricky Hatton that is. :happy

[TFFP]

I would think his currency is looking more than good right now, especially against the Pound. Plus he camps out in Monaco and evades taxes :blurp

Yeah okay, Kessler is not a quality boxer.

And thanks for that completely objective and not at all one sided run down, Jeff. A truely enlightening experience.

[PrideOfWales]

Omar Sheika.... had lost to Tony Booth,,, with respect, nuff said.

Woodhall....so impressive when winning the title had looked short of world class once he came to defending it turning in a number of so so perfomances including a loss to beyer.... He gave zag a fair fight though..

Veit.... untested pre zag, gets smashed to pieces.... zaggy impressive. poor viet who was a good fighter never made it to top level. more on him later....

Will Mcintyre..... more padding then the michelins mans space suit.

Brewer... at least four years past his best, herol graham floored him, Antwun echols ko'd him just one fight before the zaggy one...Brewer cnsidered chinny took zag the distance and battled him all the way.

miguel angel giminez...shut out by brian magee in his very next fight... Calzaghe ground out a dull points win.

Tocker pudwill....less sid about this one the better really... pudwills resume was poor but not as poor as his performance tonight.

Mitchell.... came into the fight off a loss... had lossed to bruno girard and sven ottke. floored zaggy and nearly upset him bfore a badly timed stoppage.

Mkrtchian... came to the fight with a largely empty record. didn't go on to achieve much else.

Salem... floored zaggy, took him the distance and came into the fight off a loss.

Veit.... .... zzzzz

Ashira... no big wins... had been ko'd in two rounds one fight earliar.

Lacy....was meant to be the big thing... never happened... never will.

Bika.....zaggy barely wins a mingfest... hardly impressive against a guy yet to prove himself at world class.

Manfredo.... no comment.

Kessler.... good European class fighter who wouln't have had a look in in the Benn/Jones jnr era...

Hopkins... a great middle, many thought he did enough.. floored zag

Jones jnr...... so horribly past his best its embarassing to even call this a victory.

There you go... let the hate begin.

I think you are a bit harsh on some of these opponents - don't think the extremes you go to are fair but I can see where you're coming from.

[scurlaruntings]

I think you are a bit harsh on some of these opponents - don't think the extremes you go to are fair but I can see where you're coming from.I watched every one of those fights. And Jeff is on the money.

[PrideOfWales]

I watched every one of those fights. And Jeff is on the money.

So did I and I disagree on a few of the comments.

[Fat Joe]

The only quality boxer he ever faced that was in any shape

:patschRidiculous comment

[Fat Joe]

If the worst you can say about Calzaghe is that a prime Jones or Bhop probably beat him then he can't be that bad.

[JonOli]

:patschRidiculous comment

Hopkins was the only elite fighter in any shape Joe ever faced. I stand by that - and popkins was 43.

[TFFP]

Good to see a change of terminology from "quality boxer" to "elite fighter".

You are about as credible as me on Hatton, which is saying something.

[JonOli]

I dont rate Kessler hugely get over it.

[TFFP]

But clearly enough to backtrack.

Get over it?! You sound like a 13 yr old girl man.

[JonOli]

Anyway, good luck to Joe on his retirement. I don't particularly dislike the guy - just think he is/was a tad overrated.

[mrplow182]

Some of this criticism seems recycled and a touch bitter.

He clearly wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but this assasination of his career is over the top.

Very negative indeed........

[robpalmer135]

joe was a fantastic talent. best British fighter of my era (im 22)

hopefully joe does well, cant see him doing much as a promoter but might make a good pundit.

[Fat Joe]

I don't particularly dislike the guy - just think he is/was a tad overrated.

:huhThen why are 95% of your threads and posts Calzaghe related?

[Fat Joe]

joe was a fantastic talent. best British fighter of my era (im 22)

hopefully joe does well, cant see him doing much as a promoter but might make a good pundit.

How come all your texts get read out on BBH, are you a friend of the show?

[TFFP]

He's a bit of a drone to become a pundit.

I'd still like to see him as a Mafia boss. He has the good looks and style. He has no expression in his voice, which will come across as cold hearted.

He can slap any bitch down that crosses him.

[DINAMITA]

He was a very good fighter. Generally overrated now, but that will change as his resume depreciates with time. His res doesn't have anywhere near enough big names or prime top quality fighters on it to still be rated very highly in 10 or 20 years time (when Jeff Lacy's hype will be long forgotten and he'll just be another Brewer or Sheika). I'm pretty disappointed he's gone as there were good fights out there, with Dawson and Froch, and rematches with Kessler or Hopkins. But if the hunger has gone, he's right to walk away with the zero intact. Very good fighter.

[robpalmer135]

How come all your texts get read out on BBH, are you a friend of the show?

i dont ask stupid questions................and i sucked off kerr.................

[FLINT ISLAND]

Hopkins was the only elite fighter in any shape Joe ever faced. I stand by that - and popkins was 43.

Credit Joe for fighting a Elite

there are so few Elite about that you do well to fight one in a entire career

[TFFP]

Credit Joe for fighting a Elite

there are so few Elite about that you do well to fight one in a entire career
Wow Flint, your avatar leaves a lot to the imagination :nut


I like it


Not one of your "friends", i.e. people you've seen and taken a picture of is it?

[GazOC]

Fuck "elite", its one of those ESBisms thats really just a tool for argument.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Wow Flint, your avatar leaves a lot to the imagination :nut


I like it


Not one of your "friends", i.e. people you've seen and taken a picture of is it?


:lol:

Not this one

Ask GAZOC he might know who she is

[TFFP]

GazOC, you are an elite poster.

I also put Flint in this bracket, and a few others.

[JonOli]

Fuck "elite", its one of those ESBisms thats really just a tool for argument.


Thats fine with me as long as no one ever terms Joe as such.

Fuck "Elite"!!!!

Whats good for the goose...

[GazOC]

GazOC, you are an elite poster.

I also put Flint in this bracket, and a few others.

Well if you put it like that its a perfectly fine word...;)

Flint, I'm usually pretty good on British totty but I've go no idea on your avatar mate...:huh

[JonOli]

I wonder if Joe will make a comeback?

[FLINT ISLAND]

Hamed only ever fought one "elite" and so according to PADDY1983 is not World Class

And you have to be "elite" to be World Class

So that means there are only one or two world class fighters in Hameds era and Hamed wasnt one of them

Utter Garbage

Calzaghe W UNA 12 Charles Brewer - World Class Win

Simple as that

Elite fighters are just so rare to fight as there are only a hanndul of them spread out through all divisions

[GazOC]

Thats fine with me as long as no one ever terms Joe as such.

Fuck "Elite"!!!!

Whats good for the goose...

Hey!! I'm not getting into the Joe debate:yikes;), I just don't like the word in general or how its usually used on ESB to criticize boxers who have had very good careers.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Well if you put it like that its a perfectly fine word...;)

Flint, I'm usually pretty good on British totty but I've go no idea on your avatar mate...:huh

She use to be on Men and Motors show

UK Centefolds

A group of strippers in Blackpool Clubs back in the 90's and early 00's

[TFFP]

Everybody has their own definition of elite, that is the problem. Maybe we should be more transparent with what we are asking for from an elite.

If I rate GazOC as elite by my own standards, if others have slightly higher standards it is no guarantee that 99% of the forum won't disagree.

Therein lies the problem.

[GazOC]

She use to be on Men and Motors show

UK Centefolds

A group of strippers in Blackpool Clubs back in the 90's and early 00's

Thats enough clues mate. Karen Baggoley?:D I would have got it but your avatar pixelated when I zoomed in.

[ishy]

I would say Gaz is an elite poster but TFFP and Flint are 'merely' world class ;).

[TFFP]

I take more offence in being in the same bracket as Flint than being a notch below an ATG like Gaz.

[ishy]

I take more offence in being in the same bracket as Flint than being a notch below an ATG like Gaz.
:lol:

Flint is hugely underrated.

[GazOC]

Everybody has their own definition of elite, that is the problem. Maybe we should be more transparent with what we are asking for from an elite.

If I rate GazOC as elite by my own standards, if others have slightly higher standards it is no guarantee that 99% of the forum won't disagree.

Therein lies the problem.

I think the problem with using the term in respect to Calzaghes career (and is how its generally used "against" boxers) is that it tends to get used to put down wins like Kessler, Mitchel, Brewer etc which, as Flint has said, are very good wins against world class opponents.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Thats enough clues mate. Karen Baggoley?:D I would have got it but your avatar pixelated when I zoomed in.


:lol::lol::good

CORRECT !!!!

[TFFP]

:lol:

Flint is hugely underrated.
His resume is padded with paragraphs and elipses. Far too many gaps IMO.

Agree with Gaz regarding the actual topic.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Its more like fucking Iceland down here in Wales with all this fucking Snow

Whats the weather like in Iceland Eskimo?

[GazOC]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[FLINT ISLAND]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


:rofl:rofl:rofl

[TFFP]

Its more like fucking Iceland down here in Wales with all this fucking Snow

Whats the weather like in Iceland Eskimo?
25 degrees (celsius). Been hitting the beach :cool:

[FLINT ISLAND]

25 degrees (celsius). Been hitting the beach :cool:


:shock:

[Smazz20]

1/2 of his title defences were pure filler. Calzaghe as a fighter could and should of got far better fights than the Pudwills and McIntyre's of the world. How hard would it be to get Larsen, Beyer, Lucas, Catley, Braehmer, Echols and such in the ring? Then you have Ottke. Calzaghe could of been undisputed 168 champ about 7-8 years ago with a win over him.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Ottke didnt want Calzaghe

That guy was a German cheat and was happy to just mug out a career in Germany

If Joe had gone there he would have been DQ for hitting Ottke in the face

[scurlaruntings]

1/2 of his title defences were pure filler. Calzaghe as a fighter could and should of got far better fights than the Pudwills and McIntyre's of the world. How hard would it be to get Larsen, Beyer, Lucas, Catley, Braehmer, Echols and such in the ring? Then you have Ottke. Calzaghe could of been undisputed 168 champ about 7-8 years ago with a win over him.Precisely.

[scurlaruntings]

Ottke didnt want Calzaghe

That guy was a German cheat and was happy to just mug out a career in Germany

If Joe had gone there he would have been DQ for hitting Ottke in the faceBut the FACTS remain Joe DIDNT go to German. Joe didnt want the fight as much as Ottke didnt want it. BUT Sven was the recognised number 1 in the division NOT Joe. Lets not deal with supposition conjecture and whatifs. Just cold FACTS.

[FLINT ISLAND]

But the FACTS remain Joe DIDNT go to German. Joe didnt want the fight as much as Ottke didnt want it. BUT Sven was the recognised number 1 in the division NOT Joe. Lets not deal with supposition conjecture and whatifs. Just cold FACTS.


:lol::lol::lol:

Scurla when it comes to Calzaghe you are deluded with hate

Calzaghe was the NO 1 - Fact

Ring Rankings, etc

He would have smashed Ottke - just my opinon there

Good for him not going to Germany - fuck that getting cheated out of a fight look what happen to Robin Reid

"At least Dick Turpin wore a mask when he robbed people"

Roy Jones didnt go to Germany either for the same reasons - still a great fighter

[GazOC]

There are big questions you could ask about Calzaghes title defences/ opposition but I don't see the omission of Ottke as being one of them.

[JonOli]

Everybody has their own definition of elite.

If you're elite, I must be the GOAT.

[scurlaruntings]

:lol::lol::lol:

Scurla when it comes to Calzaghe you are deluded with hate

Calzaghe was the NO 1 - Fact

Ring Rankings, etc

He would have smashed Ottke - just my opinon there

Good for him not going to Germany - fuck that getting cheated out of a fight look what happen to Robin Reid

"At least Dick Turpin wore a mask when he robbed people"

Roy Jones didnt go to Germany either for the same reasons - still a great fighterThats absolute rubbish and goes to show the deluded lengths Calzaghe joyboys go to defend there guy. Sven was the consensus number 1 by ALL independant boxing organisations including the Ring. Joe was ranked at number 2 FACT. Jones reasons for not going to Germany were quite apparent as Jones got robbed in Seoul. Joe on the other hand said he had a fear of flying. But he managed to find his arse in Norway to fight Mcyintre and flew to the US to face Hopkins. All we ever hear from Joe and his fans are endless excuses.

[TFFP]

Ottke would have looked nice on Calzaghe's resume. And I rate Sven purely as a fighter, trying to ignore other factors.

But the reality is I don't expect anybody to fight under unfair conditions. It takes blood, sweat and tears to become a pro boxer. Everybody deserves a fair crack, its not on to have to overcome more than just your opponent.

As I remember Ottke had the chance to come to England, to go to other places, and he didn't want to. That's okay, but I don't expect anybody to go and fight him either. I admire them if they do.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Calzaghe would have smashed Ottke out

[TFFP]

I dunno, I think Sven would have been awkward. He was pretty quick, defensively and tactically aware, a canny fighter. I actually think Calzaghe would have looked pretty bad against him, but would have won clearly. In a neutral location, anyway.

It was a good decision not to fight him in Germany. Sven is a difficult man to KO, and given he can fiddle around and make you bad its a huge risk to rely on the cards.

[Beatboxer]

I'm filled with sadness that one of the finest fighters of this generation, the greatest SMW of all time and a top 10 ATG British fighter has announced his retirement....but at the same time, remain confident that like another British great in Lennox Lewis, his standing will appreciate with time.

Thanks for the memories Joe! Hopefully that knighthood will come your way soon!

[Smazz20]

According to Sean, ****** offered Ottke about £1 mil to figth Joe in Britain. Ottke at the time was making twice that fighting less dangerous opponents at home. So either Joe had to be willing to go to Germany and take a paycut or beg ****** to offer a more substantial deal to Sven's camp for him to come to Britain. Either way, it didn't happen and it's a shame for boxing fans that such a fight didn't come off and a bigger shame for both men that they never truly sought to make it happen. Joe also could EASILY of travelled to the U.S much earlier in his career to make a name for himself over there.

[Primadonna Kool]

Joe Calzaghe needs to come back, and fight Carl Froch.

After Froch has built himself up..

[TBooze]

Joe Calzaghe needs to come back, and fight Carl Froch.

After Froch has built himself up..


So if I hyped myself up????

Joe you retired to avoid fighting the TBooze Machine!

He (Joe) would need to comeback to punch the crap out of me?

IMO, same as Joe was unlucky not to be in the prime era of Benn, Jones, Toney and Eubank; Froch is unlucky that his era is just beyond that of Calzaghe.

If I was Carl, I would make it my career mission to retire on 47-0, and thus leave a few questions.......

[JonOli]

It's a shame really because the Dawson fight could have been a good one, but I guess Joes been fighting for long enough.

Hopkins is running out of oponents fast, who else is there left for him to fight (I guess he is fighting again)...

[TBooze]

It's a shame really because the Dawson fight could have been a good one, but I guess Joes been fighting for long enough.

Hopkins is running out of oponents fast, who else is there left for him to fight (I guess he is fighting again)...

If Ali had retired after Foreman: I think we would of gone it was sad that we never had a third Frazier or Norton fight.

But the fact we would of avoided the two Spinks fights, as well as the Shavers, Young, Holmes and Berbick bouts, makes me think Ali should of called it a day in 1974....

If Calzaghe does stick to this retirement, I think boxing history suggests on the balance of probabilities, he has done the right thing.

[smellmyfinger]

U Brits should be proud of your mans career.

I had my doubts about Joe, but he stepped up at the end and beat everyone out there.

The guy retires undefeated, what more can u do?

I would have liked to see him try and get to 50/0, but if a fighter knows its time, then its time.

Respect where respct is due, and Calzaghe has earnt everyones respect.:thumbsup

[icemax]

Omar Sheika.... had lost to Tony Booth,,, with respect, nuff said.

Woodhall....so impressive when winning the title had looked short of world class once he came to defending it turning in a number of so so perfomances including a loss to beyer.... He gave zag a fair fight though..

Veit.... untested pre zag, gets smashed to pieces.... zaggy impressive. poor viet who was a good fighter never made it to top level. more on him later....

Will Mcintyre..... more padding then the michelins mans space suit.

Brewer... at least four years past his best, herol graham floored him, Antwun echols ko'd him just one fight before the zaggy one...Brewer cnsidered chinny took zag the distance and battled him all the way.

miguel angel giminez...shut out by brian magee in his very next fight... Calzaghe ground out a dull points win.

Tocker pudwill....less sid about this one the better really... pudwills resume was poor but not as poor as his performance tonight.

Mitchell.... came into the fight off a loss... had lossed to bruno girard and sven ottke. floored zaggy and nearly upset him bfore a badly timed stoppage.

Mkrtchian... came to the fight with a largely empty record. didn't go on to achieve much else.

Salem... floored zaggy, took him the distance and came into the fight off a loss.

Veit.... .... zzzzz

Ashira... no big wins... had been ko'd in two rounds one fight earliar.

Lacy....was meant to be the big thing... never happened... never will.

Bika.....zaggy barely wins a mingfest... hardly impressive against a guy yet to prove himself at world class.

Manfredo.... no comment.

Kessler.... good European class fighter who wouln't have had a look in in the Benn/Jones jnr era...

Hopkins... a great middle, many thought he did enough.. floored zag

Jones jnr...... so horribly past his best its embarassing to even call this a victory.

There you go... let the hate begin.

That is Calzaghes legacy in a bag...doesn't look too good when its in black and white. If it wasn't for a gimme against Reid we wouldn't be talking in these terms as I think that a loss would have liberated Calzaghe and allowed him to chase the big fights. The mystical "0" was a massive mill stone around his neck.

I honestly don't think that JC is finished just yet...watch for a summer fight against either Nard or Jones Jr. at Cardiff

[icemax]

:lol:

Flint is hugely underrated.

Flint is a class act...sort of like the Derek Randall of ESB:deal

[antcull]

Sven was the consensus number 1 by ALL independant boxing organisations including the Ring. Joe was ranked at number 2 FACT.

:lol::lol: Thats a load of shit.....FACT my ass!

Its completely pathetic the amount of shit Calzaghe gets.....what he has acheived is absolutely remarkable.
He is the 2nd best british boxer post-war (3rd in some peoples opinions)

He gets slated for not fighting a prime RJJ or Hopkins, thats the only criticism you can level at him, who gives a shit? How could he force a prime Hopkins to leave his middleweight division to fight a fairly unknown fighter?? His division was super middleweight, its not the f**king crime of the century that he didn't move up to 175 to meet a prime RJJ...Apart from these 2 their are no other fighters that would have enhanced his legacy...

Sven Ottke was crap and Calzaghe would have dealt with him...I've only seen a few of his fights and I feel he clearly lost to Reid and Brewer (havent seen the other contraversial ones.

Just accept it, he was a fantastic fighter and his career will be remembered much greater as time passes, like it does with nearly all great fighters.

[Dunky McCafferty]

Man, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread, especially as it brought out the Scurlaruntings that that I used to know & love here so much, the old ESB brit forum legend back to his straight to the point best, & putting everyone who dared argue with him in therir place:good

It was like a blast from the past this thread, when Scurla builds up a head of steam no argument can stand in his way.

When Scurla described Calzaghe the man, the fighter & the legacy, he called it spot-on.
It was great to read.

Reminded me how great this place used to be!

[steelem]

Scurlaruntings is out of order - if he was a true boxing fan then he would know that any boxer with a 46-0 record is a true achievement. Fair play to Joe in retiring - will be sadly missed - what a boxer!!

[jc]

Scurla is just one of the many many haters out there, but when your as good as joe Calzaghe you are always going to have haters.

Joe is one of the few fighters to retire undefeated, the only British world champion to do so, universally recognized as one of the very best p4p, 2 weight world champ, first undispited super middleweight champ, 20 plus title defences and an amatuer career any pro would be proud of.

Calzaghe is an all time Great.

Peace!

[mike464]

This is getting silly. Calzaghe has done very well for himself and made an impressive jump from WBO level to world class, but let's not compare him with the likes of Hopkins and Jones. They are on a different level.

[FLINT ISLAND]

[quote=jc;3391238]Scurla is just one of the many many haters out there, but when your as good as joe Calzaghe you are always going to have haters.


I 100% agree.

Scurla is a good poster.

But when it comes to Joe Calzaghe and Enzo Maccarenelli and Sports Network Fighters he is a 100% terrible hating poster

[FLINT ISLAND]

This is getting silly. Calzaghe has done very well for himself and made an impressive jump from WBO level to world class, but let's not compare him with the likes of Hopkins and Jones. They are on a different level.


Disagree here

Joes a bit of a cunt right.

But he beat Hopkins.

He beat a 44 year old Hopkins who was as good as ever.

A 44 year old Hopkins was better than a 34 year old Hopkins.

Hopkins improved with age and experience as he is a fighter than relys on ring craft and smarts that comes with experience.

Joe beat Chris Eubank in 1997.

Calzaghe would have beaten Hopkins in 1997, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2008

Take your pick Calzaghe beats him any year

Hopkins was the NO 1 Light Heavyweight in the World

He was top of his game

Dominated Antonio Tarver in his previous fighter

Dont matter if he was 64 years old.............he was at the top of his game

He was a much better fighter than the green fighter who lost to Roy Jones in 1993

Calzaghe would have beaten him any time:deal

Calzaghe would not of beaten prime Jones...........neither would anyone else

[Beeston Brawler]

This is getting silly. Calzaghe has done very well for himself and made an impressive jump from WBO level to world class, but let's not compare him with the likes of Hopkins and Jones. They are on a different level.

Got it in one

[hitman_hatton1]

Thats absolute rubbish and goes to show the deluded lengths Calzaghe joyboys go to defend there guy. Sven was the consensus number 1 by ALL independant boxing organisations including the Ring. Joe was ranked at number 2 FACT. Jones reasons for not going to Germany were quite apparent as Jones got robbed in Seoul. Joe on the other hand said he had a fear of flying. But he managed to find his arse in Norway to fight Mcyintre and flew to the US to face Hopkins. All we ever hear from Joe and his fans are endless excuses.

the number 1 position was back and forth if truth be told rantings. :deal

we all know team ottke were quite happy earning a mint in germany with the big viewing figures and crowds.

the sheer fact he retired without taking on calzaghe for one final big payday proves it.

he walked away from his big rival.

that's the biggest fact going when it comes to calzaghe-ottke. :bart

[hitman_hatton1]

A 44 year old Hopkins was better than a 34 year old Hopkins.

Hopkins improved with age and experience as he is a fighter than relys on ring craft and smarts that comes with experience.

and who would deny that based on his last fight.

he was f*cking sensational in that fight.

bouncing em off pavlik's nugget like nobody's business. :bbb

[TFFP]

Disagree here

Joes a bit of a cunt right.

But he beat Hopkins.

He beat a 44 year old Hopkins who was as good as ever.

A 44 year old Hopkins was better than a 34 year old Hopkins.

Hopkins improved with age and experience as he is a fighter than relys on ring craft and smarts that comes with experience.

Joe beat Chris Eubank in 1997.

Calzaghe would have beaten Hopkins in 1997, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2008

Take your pick Calzaghe beats him any year

Hopkins was the NO 1 Light Heavyweight in the World

He was top of his game

Dominated Antonio Tarver in his previous fighter

Dont matter if he was 64 years old.............he was at the top of his game

He was a much better fighter than the green fighter who lost to Roy Jones in 1993

Calzaghe would have beaten him any time:deal

Calzaghe would not of beaten prime Jones...........neither would anyone else
Agreed

If anybody can show me where Hopkins is noticeably better than against Pavlik, I'd love to hear!

[Max Molyneux]

This is getting silly. Calzaghe has done very well for himself and made an impressive jump from WBO level to world class, but let's not compare him with the likes of Hopkins and Jones. They are on a different level.

Errrm but he beat Hopkns. Hopkins Is still good enough to beat over hyped guys like Pavlik.

Jones prime Is hella overrated, he just dropped his hands and the opponents would allow It. Joe would of done better than those guys.:-(

[BadJuju83]

This is getting silly. Calzaghe has done very well for himself and made an impressive jump from WBO level to world class, but let's not compare him with the likes of Hopkins and Jones. They are on a different level.


He can be mentioned with them, I would put him behind them overall but there is no getting away from the fact he beat one of them, a very good version of him, and a far better version than the one that Roy beat.

[SteelTownCobra]

I really don't understand the haters.

Instead of pointing out what he didn't achieve why not look at what he did achieve and give credit where credit is due?

So he never fought a peak RJJ. So he never fought Sven Ottke.

What he did do was fight at the highest levels of the sport for over 10 years. He achieved more than most young fighters could ever dare to dream. He may have left it late to make a real mark on the sport but he got there in the end. He retires as an unbeaten champion and he is widely regarded as one of the best fighters on the planet today.

He deserves all the credit. He deserves to be remembered as one of this countries finest.

[FLINT ISLAND]

He can be mentioned with them, I would put him behind them overall but there is no getting away from the fact he beat one of them, a very good version of him, and a far better version than the one that Roy beat.

You must have a short memory :lol:

He actually beat them BOTH :D

[Guy]

He beat a 44 year old Hopkins who was as good as ever.

A 44 year old Hopkins was better than a 34 year old Hopkins.

Hopkins improved with age and experience as he is a fighter than relys on ring craft and smarts that comes with experience.

Joe beat Chris Eubank in 1997.

Calzaghe would have beaten Hopkins in 1997, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2008

Take your pick Calzaghe beats him any year

Hopkins was the NO 1 Light Heavyweight in the World

He was top of his game

Dominated Antonio Tarver in his previous fighter

Dont matter if he was 64 years old.............he was at the top of his game

He was a much better fighter than the green fighter who lost to Roy Jones in 1993

Calzaghe would have beaten him any time:deal

Calzaghe would not of beaten prime Jones...........neither would anyone else


Agree, nice tits Flint but I like them a bit bigger.

[BadJuju83]

You must have a short memory :lol:

He actually beat them BOTH :D


Where am I? Who are you?:nut


Was just trying to avoid bringing up the Jones fight, but fair enough. Whenever it's mentioned, folk jump on it and avoid talking about the fact he beat a very good version of Hop.

[Guy]

Go away. When you` ve been a fan of boxing longer than an hour you come see me ok child. :roll:

Another bitter and twisted little man who thinks his opinion counts for something...

[El Cepillo]

Well done to Joe Calzaghe for having a very good career and maintaining his precious '0'.


"NEXT PLEASE"

[Guy]

Who's next though thats the problem .........no-one looks to be in the same class as Calzaghe P4P within Britain.

[JonOli]

Joe is one of the few fighters to retire undefeated, the only British world champion to do so!


Terry Marsh is British, and was a "World Champion" when he retired.

These guys retired undefeated as well...

Rocky Marciano - World Heavyweight Champion - 49 (43) - 0(0) - 0
Terry Marsh - IBF Light Welterweight Champion - 26 (10) - 0 (0) - 1
Floyd Mayweather Jr. - WBC Super Featherweight, WBC Lightweight Champion, WBC Light Welterweight Champion, IBF Welterweight Champion, WBC Welterweight Champion & WBC Light Middleweight Champion - 39 (25) - 0- 0
Jack McAuliffe - World Lightweight Champion - 34 (23) - 0 (0) - 5
Jimmy Barry - World Paperweight Champion (110lbs) - 58 (3 - 0 (0) - 10
Samson Dutch Boy Gym - WBF Super Flyweight Champion - 43 (36) - 0(0) - 0
Jemal Hinton - WBC Continental Americas Super Bantamweight Campion - 22 (17) - 0 (0) - 0
Ike Ibeabuchi - WBC International Heavyweight Champion - 20 (15) - 0(0) - 0
Ji Won Kim - IBF Super Bantamweight Champion - 16 (7) - 0 (0) - 2
Michael Loewe - WBO Welterweight Champion - 28 (10) - 0(0) - 0
Ricardo Lopez - IBF Light Flyweight Champion - 51 (3 - 0 (0) - 1
Young Mitchell - American Featherweight, Australian Lightweight,PC Welterweight, and PC Middleweight Claimant - 35-0-6 (BoxRec only has 5-0-4)
Edson Pedro Nascimento - UBC Ibero-American Lightweight Champion - 47 (40) - 0(0) - 1
Horace Notice - Commonwealth (BE) Heavyweight Belt-holder - 16 (12) - 0 (0) - 0
Sven Ottke - WBA & IBF Super Middleweight Champion - 34 (6) - 0 (0) - 0
Laszlo Papp - EBU (European) Middleweight Champion - 27 (15) - 0 (0) - 2
Pichit Sitbangprachan IBF Flyweight Champion 24(1 - 0 (0) - 0
Mzukisi Skweyiya - South African Non-White Bantamweight Champion - 21 (7) - 0 (0) - 1
Harry Simon - WBO middle Weight Champion 24 (17) - 0 - 0
Here's some others that were just Undefeated on retirement:
Kirk Daley - (1988-1994) Former Jr. Middleweight Contender - 19 (1 - 0 (0) - 0
Scott Daley - (1986-199 Former Middleweight Contender - 24 (24) - 0(0) - 0
George Kandelaki - (1998-2003) Former Heavyweight Contender - 24 (1 - 0 (0) - 0
Vinny Letizia - (1990-1993) Former Welterweight Contender 16 (14) - 0(0) - 1
Tom Gleason - (1890-1896) Middleweight Champion of North & South Dakota, & Montana - 6-0-3 (2 ND)
Niels H Madsen - (1990-1992) Former Cruiserweight 8(4) - 0 (0) - 0
Agustin Senin - (1967-1972) Spanish & EBU (European) Bantamweight Champion - 42 (21) - 0 (0) - 1
Gurcharan Singh (2001-2004) Former Cruiserweight 17 (10) - 0(0) - 0
Victor Levine 1-0-0 Light Middle
Jimmy Wilde (Moisés Ortenberg) - (1935-1943) Argentina - 37 (15) - 0 (0) - 5
Ricky Womack - (1984-2001) (defeated Holyfield 3 times in the amateur) 13(6) - 0 (0) - 1"
Jemal Hinton (1998 1992) 22 - 0 - 0 (gave up on religious grounds)
Joe Mesi (1997 - 2007) 36 - 0 - 0 Heavy weight
Harold Mann (1963-1967) 10 - 0 - 0 middleweight
Antonio Perugino ( 1997 - 2003) 28 - 0 - 0 WBU middleweight champ
Jimmy Barry (1899-1991) Former World Paperweight Champ 59-0-10
Ed 'Too Tall' Jones (1979-1980) HeavyWeight 6-0-0
Paul Spadafora (1995-2008) 41-0-1 ~ Former IBF lightweight title holder
Lester Jacobs (1989-2001) 43-0-0 World Boxing Federation middleweight Champion

[jc]

Terry Marsh is British, and was a "World Champion" when he retired.

These guys retired undefeated as well...

Rocky Marciano - World Heavyweight Champion - 49 (43) - 0(0) - 0
Terry Marsh - IBF Light Welterweight Champion - 26 (10) - 0 (0) - 1
Floyd Mayweather Jr. - WBC Super Featherweight, WBC Lightweight Champion, WBC Light Welterweight Champion, IBF Welterweight Champion, WBC Welterweight Champion & WBC Light Middleweight Champion - 39 (25) - 0- 0
Jack McAuliffe - World Lightweight Champion - 34 (23) - 0 (0) - 5
Jimmy Barry - World Paperweight Champion (110lbs) - 58 (3 - 0 (0) - 10
Samson Dutch Boy Gym - WBF Super Flyweight Champion - 43 (36) - 0(0) - 0
Jemal Hinton - WBC Continental Americas Super Bantamweight Campion - 22 (17) - 0 (0) - 0
Ike Ibeabuchi - WBC International Heavyweight Champion - 20 (15) - 0(0) - 0
Ji Won Kim - IBF Super Bantamweight Champion - 16 (7) - 0 (0) - 2
Michael Loewe - WBO Welterweight Champion - 28 (10) - 0(0) - 0
Ricardo Lopez - IBF Light Flyweight Champion - 51 (3 - 0 (0) - 1
Young Mitchell - American Featherweight, Australian Lightweight,PC Welterweight, and PC Middleweight Claimant - 35-0-6 (BoxRec only has 5-0-4)
Edson Pedro Nascimento - UBC Ibero-American Lightweight Champion - 47 (40) - 0(0) - 1
Horace Notice - Commonwealth (BE) Heavyweight Belt-holder - 16 (12) - 0 (0) - 0
Sven Ottke - WBA & IBF Super Middleweight Champion - 34 (6) - 0 (0) - 0
Laszlo Papp - EBU (European) Middleweight Champion - 27 (15) - 0 (0) - 2
Pichit Sitbangprachan IBF Flyweight Champion 24(1 - 0 (0) - 0
Mzukisi Skweyiya - South African Non-White Bantamweight Champion - 21 (7) - 0 (0) - 1
Harry Simon - WBO middle Weight Champion 24 (17) - 0 - 0
Here's some others that were just Undefeated on retirement:
Kirk Daley - (1988-1994) Former Jr. Middleweight Contender - 19 (1 - 0 (0) - 0
Scott Daley - (1986-199 Former Middleweight Contender - 24 (24) - 0(0) - 0
George Kandelaki - (1998-2003) Former Heavyweight Contender - 24 (1 - 0 (0) - 0
Vinny Letizia - (1990-1993) Former Welterweight Contender 16 (14) - 0(0) - 1
Tom Gleason - (1890-1896) Middleweight Champion of North & South Dakota, & Montana - 6-0-3 (2 ND)
Niels H Madsen - (1990-1992) Former Cruiserweight 8(4) - 0 (0) - 0
Agustin Senin - (1967-1972) Spanish & EBU (European) Bantamweight Champion - 42 (21) - 0 (0) - 1
Gurcharan Singh (2001-2004) Former Cruiserweight 17 (10) - 0(0) - 0
Victor Levine 1-0-0 Light Middle
Jimmy Wilde (Moisés Ortenberg) - (1935-1943) Argentina - 37 (15) - 0 (0) - 5
Ricky Womack - (1984-2001) (defeated Holyfield 3 times in the amateur) 13(6) - 0 (0) - 1"
Jemal Hinton (1998 1992) 22 - 0 - 0 (gave up on religious grounds)
Joe Mesi (1997 - 2007) 36 - 0 - 0 Heavy weight
Harold Mann (1963-1967) 10 - 0 - 0 middleweight
Antonio Perugino ( 1997 - 2003) 28 - 0 - 0 WBU middleweight champ
Jimmy Barry (1899-1991) Former World Paperweight Champ 59-0-10
Ed 'Too Tall' Jones (1979-1980) HeavyWeight 6-0-0
Paul Spadafora (1995-2008) 41-0-1 ~ Former IBF lightweight title holder
Lester Jacobs (1989-2001) 43-0-0 World Boxing Federation middleweight Champion

Take into account 20 plus defences, first undisputed 168lb title and world titles at 2 weights and that list shrinks a bit...

[BadJuju83]

Take into account 20 plus defences, first undisputed 168lb title and world titles at 2 weights and that list shrinks a bit...

Or just people you have heard of.

Then people you can pick out of a line up.

[JonOli]

Oh and Micky Rourke :lol:

[FLINT ISLAND]

Calzaghe is rare career

Maintained his sharp mind

Maintained his physical health

Maintained his Handsome good looks

Maintained his professional unbeaten record

Maintained his money that he made

Joe Calzaghe has been really successful in a very unforgiving business

[BadJuju83]

Oh and Micky Rourke :lol:


Thats the clincher.

Far bigger name, and people have heard of him and can pick him out of a line-up.

I stand corrected.

[Beeston Brawler]

Who actually cares about number of defences..........

Of a weakass SN title.... when world titles were world titles, i.e. only one of them, then fair enough.

[JonOli]

Jo has even got everyone forgetting that he spent his entire career, baring just the one fight, fighting under Mr Frank ******.

[janitor]

History will ultimately judge him kindly. His raw statistics alone are impresive:

Beltholder for over 10 years.

First fighter to unify the supermiddleweight division.

Ring magazine champion at supermidleweight and lightheavyweight.

Only the second lineal champion to remain unbeaten and untied (asuming he stays retired)

Like with all retired champions it will take a few years for the merit of some of his best wins to flesh out because those fighters are still active and can still improve their resumes. For example three of Lennox Lewis's victims went on to win titles after he retired.

[janitor]

Terry Marsh is British, and was a "World Champion" when he retired.

These guys retired undefeated as well...

Rocky Marciano - World Heavyweight Champion - 49 (43) - 0(0) - 0
Terry Marsh - IBF Light Welterweight Champion - 26 (10) - 0 (0) - 1
Floyd Mayweather Jr. - WBC Super Featherweight, WBC Lightweight Champion, WBC Light Welterweight Champion, IBF Welterweight Champion, WBC Welterweight Champion & WBC Light Middleweight Champion - 39 (25) - 0- 0
Jack McAuliffe - World Lightweight Champion - 34 (23) - 0 (0) - 5
Jimmy Barry - World Paperweight Champion (110lbs) - 58 (3 - 0 (0) - 10
Samson Dutch Boy Gym - WBF Super Flyweight Champion - 43 (36) - 0(0) - 0
Jemal Hinton - WBC Continental Americas Super Bantamweight Campion - 22 (17) - 0 (0) - 0
Ike Ibeabuchi - WBC International Heavyweight Champion - 20 (15) - 0(0) - 0
Ji Won Kim - IBF Super Bantamweight Champion - 16 (7) - 0 (0) - 2
Michael Loewe - WBO Welterweight Champion - 28 (10) - 0(0) - 0
Ricardo Lopez - IBF Light Flyweight Champion - 51 (3 - 0 (0) - 1
Young Mitchell - American Featherweight, Australian Lightweight,PC Welterweight, and PC Middleweight Claimant - 35-0-6 (BoxRec only has 5-0-4)
Edson Pedro Nascimento - UBC Ibero-American Lightweight Champion - 47 (40) - 0(0) - 1
Horace Notice - Commonwealth (BE) Heavyweight Belt-holder - 16 (12) - 0 (0) - 0
Sven Ottke - WBA & IBF Super Middleweight Champion - 34 (6) - 0 (0) - 0
Laszlo Papp - EBU (European) Middleweight Champion - 27 (15) - 0 (0) - 2
Pichit Sitbangprachan IBF Flyweight Champion 24(1 - 0 (0) - 0
Mzukisi Skweyiya - South African Non-White Bantamweight Champion - 21 (7) - 0 (0) - 1
Harry Simon - WBO middle Weight Champion 24 (17) - 0 - 0
Here's some others that were just Undefeated on retirement:
Kirk Daley - (1988-1994) Former Jr. Middleweight Contender - 19 (1 - 0 (0) - 0
Scott Daley - (1986-199 Former Middleweight Contender - 24 (24) - 0(0) - 0
George Kandelaki - (1998-2003) Former Heavyweight Contender - 24 (1 - 0 (0) - 0
Vinny Letizia - (1990-1993) Former Welterweight Contender 16 (14) - 0(0) - 1
Tom Gleason - (1890-1896) Middleweight Champion of North & South Dakota, & Montana - 6-0-3 (2 ND)
Niels H Madsen - (1990-1992) Former Cruiserweight 8(4) - 0 (0) - 0
Agustin Senin - (1967-1972) Spanish & EBU (European) Bantamweight Champion - 42 (21) - 0 (0) - 1
Gurcharan Singh (2001-2004) Former Cruiserweight 17 (10) - 0(0) - 0
Victor Levine 1-0-0 Light Middle
Jimmy Wilde (Moisés Ortenberg) - (1935-1943) Argentina - 37 (15) - 0 (0) - 5
Ricky Womack - (1984-2001) (defeated Holyfield 3 times in the amateur) 13(6) - 0 (0) - 1"
Jemal Hinton (1998 1992) 22 - 0 - 0 (gave up on religious grounds)
Joe Mesi (1997 - 2007) 36 - 0 - 0 Heavy weight
Harold Mann (1963-1967) 10 - 0 - 0 middleweight
Antonio Perugino ( 1997 - 2003) 28 - 0 - 0 WBU middleweight champ
Jimmy Barry (1899-1991) Former World Paperweight Champ 59-0-10
Ed 'Too Tall' Jones (1979-1980) HeavyWeight 6-0-0
Paul Spadafora (1995-2008) 41-0-1 ~ Former IBF lightweight title holder
Lester Jacobs (1989-2001) 43-0-0 World Boxing Federation middleweight Champion

Yes but only one of them was ever recognised as the lineal champion in a given weight class.

Any bum can retire undefeated if they dont fight the best guys in the division. Only two fighters from any weight class have established themselves as a lineal champion and remained undefeated:

1. Rocky Marciano
2. Joe Calzaghe (if he stays retired)

I guess having an Italian name helps.

[JonOli]

Yes but only one of them was ever recognised as the lineal champion in a given weight class.

Any bum can retire undefeated if they dont fight the best guys in the division. Only two fighters from any weight class have established themselves as a lineal champion and remained undefeated:

1. Rocky Marciano
2. Joe Calzaghe (if he stays retired)

I guess having an Italian name helps.

Take the rose tinted spectacles off, he was a ****** protected boxer for the whole of his career. Even the likes of Hatton, who is limited, would still be an undefeated linear champ had he not had the balls to take on someone young and of Floyds calibre (something Joe never did) - by breaking away from Frank.

He's had a good career, and should definitely make the HOF, but there are many, many boxers out there who have had more impressive ones.

[antcull]

Take the rose tinted spectacles off, he was a ****** protected boxer for the whole of his career. Even the likes of Hatton, who is limited, would still be an undefeated linear champ had he not had the balls to take on someone young and of Floyds calibre (something Joe never did) - by breaking away from Frank.

He's had a good career, and should definitely make the HOF, but there are many, many boxers out there who have had more impressive ones.

Yes there are many boxers who have more impressive ones...roughly 90-100 i reckon if i made a ATG list.

But this is still an outstanding and remarkable career, this is still one of the best fighters too lace on a pair of gloves and one of the greatest brits of all time.

I still cannot believe why criticism is leveled at Calz, because he's not a bonafined ATG!! :huh Only a few brits have ever got to that height.

He's a had a great great career, not just a good career. What careers did all the other british boxers below the British ATG top 10 list have then? Average? Poor?

[JonOli]

He has had a very good career no doubt.

I think the problems stem from things like people putting him in the top 5 greatest ever. He really hasn't done enough, imho, to be ranked up there alongside some of the greats of the game. It kind of devalues what they were, and what they did.

[PowerPuncher]

Yes but only one of them was ever recognised as the lineal champion in a given weight class.

Any bum can retire undefeated if they dont fight the best guys in the division. Only two fighters from any weight class have established themselves as a lineal champion and remained undefeated:

1. Rocky Marciano
2. Joe Calzaghe (if he stays retired)

I guess having an Italian name helps.

Mayweather was lineal at 130, 135, 147

And if you want to talk lineal, then please state Calzaghe made ZERO defenses of the lineal/undisputed crown :deal

[Beeston Brawler]

Wasn't Ricardo Lopez lineal?

Sven Ottke?

[brown bomber]

Lineal is an opinion.... belt holders are an opinion.... Its the sport.Calzaghe doesn't stand out for me. He's just a decent fighter who never fought anybody with a good chance of beating him... Nothing more, nothing less. Ricardo Lopez beat some great fighters and future/former champions at their peak. He's in a different class completely to zaggy...

Closest comparitive record I can find.....

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

If this guy hadn't of moved out of his comfort zone he prob would have retired unbeaten too. Great wins on that record too....

[Beeston Brawler]

Ouch!

[Dunky McCafferty]

Disagree here

Joes a bit of a cunt right.

But he beat Hopkins.

He beat a 44 year old Hopkins who was as good as ever.

A 44 year old Hopkins was better than a 34 year old Hopkins.

You cannot be for real with a comment like that.

[janitor]

Take the rose tinted spectacles off, he was a ****** protected boxer for the whole of his career. Even the likes of Hatton, who is limited, would still be an undefeated linear champ had he not had the balls to take on someone young and of Floyds calibre (something Joe never did) - by breaking away from Frank.


If these credentials are not impresive then why has nobody else replicated them however protected they were or however weak their level of oposition?

The fact is that it is virtualy imposible to establish yourself as the top fighter in your weight class over a sustained period of time and remain unbeaten however easy you take it.

If it wasnt then half a dozen other fighters would have done it over the past 50 years.

[janitor]

[quote=PowerPuncher;3393288]Mayweather was lineal at 130, 135, 147


Mayweather isnt done yet.

He might say that he is but I would bet the farm that he will fight again.


And if you want to talk lineal, then please state Calzaghe made ZERO defenses of the lineal/undisputed crown :deal


Yes but on the other hand he fought in an era where you had to seperate the belts from their respective owners to establish lineage. He was also the No1 contender for many years before he got the unification fights.

[janitor]

Lineal is an opinion.... belt holders are an opinion.... Its the sport.Calzaghe doesn't stand out for me. He's just a decent fighter who never fought anybody with a good chance of beating him... Nothing more, nothing less. Ricardo Lopez beat some great fighters and future/former champions at their peak. He's in a different class completely to zaggy...

Closest comparitive record I can find.....

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

If this guy hadn't of moved out of his comfort zone he prob would have retired unbeaten too. Great wins on that record too....

I am trying to detach myself from what Isee on the film and look at his resume in a historical perspective.

In that context I have to acknowledge that it does stand out because nobody else has done it over the past 50 years.

What if he did fight weak opposition?

A lot of fighters have fought weak opposition over the past 50 years and they still never managed to establish themself asthe top fighter in two weight classes and remain unbeaten.

[scurlaruntings]

Lineal is an opinion.... belt holders are an opinion.... Its the sport.Calzaghe doesn't stand out for me. He's just a decent fighter who never fought anybody with a good chance of beating him... Nothing more, nothing less. Ricardo Lopez beat some great fighters and future/former champions at their peak. He's in a different class completely to zaggy...

Closest comparitive record I can find.....

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

If this guy hadn't of moved out of his comfort zone he prob would have retired unbeaten too. Great wins on that record too....Problem is most on this board havent been watching boxing long enough to remember a prime Lopez. Memories here are so shallow its not funny. A prime Lopez was untouchable in his weight class. I still remember the day he retired like it was yesterday. Now the comparison with Nielsen and Joe is a good one. As is another comparison with Artur Grigorian. These guys fought no one of no note and cherry picked there entire career. Even when Nielsen fought a shot Mike Tyson he got his huge body blasted half way across the ring by a career heavy Mike.

[scurlaruntings]

I am trying to detach myself from what Isee on the film and look at his resume in a historical perspective.

In that context I have to acknowledge that it does stand out because nobody else has done it over the past 50 years.

What if he did fight weak opposition?

A lot of fighters have fought weak opposition over the past 50 years and they still never managed to establish themself asthe top fighter in two weight classes and remain unbeaten.Thats rubbish. You MUST by ALL accounts understand the nature of his victories and most of all WHEN he fought his opposition. A ledger littered with club fighters and journeymen is nothing to gloat about. A career defined by 2 men hugely past there physical primes is nothing to gloat about in the slightest. Joe has never had a career that featured the dominance of Hopkins or Jones. Both those men are All Time Greats. Joe is not. He`s just a guy who defended a spurious title that no one back then paid any attention to apart from ******, and a ledger punctuated by 2 victories over old men. Joe WILL be forgotten very quickly. Thats the truth.

[TFFP]

It really just shows the complete bias of people here, bringing up Ricardo Lopez as if hes got the strongest resume to be seen. Lopez's resume has always been seen as weak, with guys he should have fought and didn't. Stop trying to fool people who don't know better.

Brien Nielsen?! Get the hell out of here, nobody rated Nielsen as a good fighter regardless of record. On film he is not even close. Horrible comparison.

[scurlaruntings]

If these credentials are not impresive then why has nobody else replicated them however protected they were or however weak their level of oposition?

The fact is that it is virtualy imposible to establish yourself as the top fighter in your weight class over a sustained period of time and remain unbeaten however easy you take it.

If it wasnt then half a dozen other fighters would have done it over the past 50 years.Because they were busy fighting other GREAT fighters. Shane DLH Jones Hopkins Tito Cotto etc ALL moved up through multiple weights succesfully and into the twilights and during there careers continued to face the best challenges out there and won in dominant fashion. Statiscally it looks nice. Greatness in boxing isnt measure dby statistics.

[Beeston Brawler]

I am trying to detach myself from what Isee on the film and look at his resume in a historical perspective.

In that context I have to acknowledge that it does stand out because nobody else has done it over the past 50 years.

What if he did fight weak opposition?

A lot of fighters have fought weak opposition over the past 50 years and they still never managed to establish themself asthe top fighter in two weight classes and remain unbeaten.

This must be the worst post ever. Sorry.

What if he did fight weak opposition?

Taking it from a different angle.....

Arsenal went unbeaten through a PL season and rightly get a lot of praise.... people will still recognise it in 50 years time.

Take that same Arsenal team and put them in League 1...... if they did the same thing, would anybody really care?

Don't think I would......

There are so many former champions on his record it is untrue. Whilst an opponent's achievements after a fight could be classed (with fair reasoning) as irrelevant.... if a guy then loses his next two fights by stoppage against crap fighters, the win doesn't mean all that much. If the guy then strings together five or six wins against good opposition and wins a world title, then that win carries weight.

So many of Calzaghe's opponents achieved absolutely fuck all afterwards. Don't tell me that Joe ruined them all, cos it's bullshit.

[janitor]

Thats rubbish. You MUST by ALL accounts understand the nature of his victories and most of all WHEN he fought his opposition. A ledger littered with club fighters and journeymen is nothing to gloat about. A career defined by 2 men hugely past there physical primes is nothing to gloat about in the slightest. Joe has never had a career that featured the dominance of Hopkins or Jones. Both those men are All Time Greats. Joe is not. He`s just a guy who defended a spurious title that no one back then paid any attention to apart from ******, and a ledger punctuated by 2 victories over old men. Joe WILL be forgotten very quickly. Thats the truth.

While some of your criticisms are valid you still have to take the good with the bad. Incidentaly I was verry critical of him and his level of competition before the Lacey fight.

There have been heaps of protected fighters throughout history who feasted on secon teir opposition over most of their careers and still it took 50 years to get one with Calzaghes paper credentials.

The bottom line is that he has been ranked as the No1 168 pounder since 2002. He picked up every belt worth having at that weight. He also established himself as the best fighter at 175 lbs by beating Hopkins.

I think history will have to give him his due despite the flaws in his leger.

[janitor]

[quote=Beeston Brawler;3398096]This must be the worst post ever. Sorry.

What if he did fight weak opposition?

Taking it from a different angle.....

Arsenal went unbeaten through a PL season and rightly get a lot of praise.... people will still recognise it in 50 years time.

Take that same Arsenal team and put them in League 1...... if they did the same thing, would anybody really care?

Don't think I would......


That is hardly a fair analogy. Calzaghe has been ranked as No1 or champion at 168 lbs since 2002. Even if much of his resume was against second teir oposition he was clearly operating at a world level. Any question about his credentials as the man at 168 went out of the window after he best Kessler.


There are so many former champions on his record it is untrue. Whilst an opponent's achievements after a fight could be classed (with fair reasoning) as irrelevant.... if a guy then loses his next two fights by stoppage against crap fighters, the win doesn't mean all that much. If the guy then strings together five or six wins against good opposition and wins a world title, then that win carries weight.


Kessler has gone on to win a version of the world title since Calzaghe beat him and he is not done yet.

Hopkins has gone on to dismantle Kelly Pavlik who some people acused Calzaghe of ducking.

Even Jeff Lacey put together some fair wins and did better against Jermain Taylor than he did against Calzaghe.

Roy Jones I will grant you is a shell but if he were to beat a decent oponent in his next fight then the win would count for something.

But all this is besides the point.

There have been literaly hundreds of champions who were protected like Calzaghe and fought similar levels of oposition to Calzaghe and they still all came unstuck in the end.

While dominating quality oponents requires one set of atributes longevity and consistency over a long period require a diferent and much rarer set of atributes.

[Beeston Brawler]

Jeff Lacy.... fair wins?

Who exactly?

He lost one of the fights clearly, and another was very close. Don't even start with the gay porno against Manfredo - Bika showed him up for the clubfighter that he is.

[janitor]

Jeff Lacy.... fair wins?

Who exactly?

He lost one of the fights clearly, and another was very close. Don't even start with the gay porno against Manfredo - Bika showed him up for the clubfighter that he is.

He beat Vitali Tysypko with a torn rotator cuff. The same injury that Vitally Klitschko retired against Chris Byrd with.

Whatever the case, a former IBF champion and No2 contender cannot by any stretch of the English language be called a club fighter. He has to be regarded as a world class fighter and historicaly there are verry few cases of a world class fighter being as comprehensivley outclassed as Lacey was against Calzaghe.

[Beeston Brawler]

I meant Manfredo the clubfighter - sorry!

[janitor]

I meant Manfredo the clubfighter - sorry!

My mistake.

That Lacey was overrated before the Calzaghe fight is now blindingly obvious.

We still shouldnt forgett however that many of us expected Lacey to win.

[Beeston Brawler]

I was undecided to be quite honest, cautiously favouring Calzaghe.

It is unfair I guess to deride a win such as Lacy, especially given the manner of the win - even though Lacy was a hypejob, beating a guy 120-104 (on my card) is pretty emphatic.

The Americans tend to take away Lewis's victory over Michael Grant. Though that was a 2nd round stoppage, it was a similar scenario. Undefeated American knocking people out etc etc......

[GazOC]

Grant was the "next big thing", people were saying even if he happened to lose to Lewis it would probably be very close and he would come again after Lewis retired.

[Beeston Brawler]

Our American friends, how knowledgable they really are!

[Guy]

Enzo Mac on Calzaghe vs Froch
"Not at all," he replied when asked about whether the fight should have taken place. "I don't think Joe had anything to prove against Froch. He beats Froch 10 times out of 10.
"Froch boxed well against Jean Pascal last time and it was a good fight. He wouldn't fight light-heavy and there is no way Joe could make super-middle so that put an end to that straight away.
"Joe had nothing to prove to anyone - he was head and shoulders above anyone else so I don't think anyone could have beaten him."

[Guy]

Carl Froch, he is no Ray Leonard, and certainly no Joe Calzaghe, and can’t be mentioned in the same breath as those two great champions.Carl Froch never earned the right to be on the same canvas as Joe Calzaghe! Other than in his hometown, a bare few know the name Carl Froch, and how to spell it or pronounce it.”
–Jermain Taylor

[Guy]

"You have to deal with the hands you were dealt," said Leonard.

"You can't please all of the fans, all of the time. There will always be someone that will say you should have fought someone.

"Joe Calzaghe was supposed to be an easy opponent for Jeff Lacy to annihilated and that was a huge, huge upset for the boxing critics and historians and even myself and I didn't think Joe could beat Jeff Lacy.

"But the way he choreographed the fight was so impressive

"And even though Roy Jones was past his best, he was expected to beat Joe with his handspeed and knowledge.

"Joe has proven himself and beaten everyone that people claimed he couldn't beat with class - and that is respectful.

"Joe was a special kind of fighter."
-Sugar Ray Leonard

[billy nelson]

joe has got to be britans best ever boxer.all the best for the future

[scurlaruntings]

While some of your criticisms are valid you still have to take the good with the bad. Incidentaly I was verry critical of him and his level of competition before the Lacey fight.

There have been heaps of protected fighters throughout history who feasted on secon teir opposition over most of their careers and still it took 50 years to get one with Calzaghes paper credentials.

The bottom line is that he has been ranked as the No1 168 pounder since 2002. He picked up every belt worth having at that weight. He also established himself as the best fighter at 175 lbs by beating Hopkins.

I think history will have to give him his due despite the flaws in his leger.
Very correct. There is no denying Joes talent or the fact that his been the number 1 since Sven retired as well as annexing all the belts which conviniently were held by Kessler (WBA WBC). But Joe had no intention of being a unified champ and nor did he want to defend his titles against all comers. He reliquished the IBF and did the same with the WBA and WBC and chased the big money in the twilight of his career. Looks very nice on paper of course but in reality his career was sorely lacking considering his abundance of natural talent.

[scurlaruntings]

He beat Vitali Tysypko with a torn rotator cuff. The same injury that Vitally Klitschko retired against Chris Byrd with.

Whatever the case, a former IBF champion and No2 contender cannot by any stretch of the English language be called a club fighter. He has to be regarded as a world class fighter and historicaly there are verry few cases of a world class fighter being as comprehensivley outclassed as Lacey was against Calzaghe.The problem here was two fold. Jeff was touted as one of the best US prospects after the Olympics. Some even likened him to Mike Tyson :blood Jeff had a VERY crowd pleasing style, a great attitude and was great as a TV fighter. BUT he was as green as grass when he fought Joe, and the facts remain he was a VERY flawed fighter. This isnt hindsight as it was very apparent long before he fought Joe. Eyebrows were raised when he struggled with a shot Omar Sheika and Richard Grant, and prior to Joe had fought no one of any note. As he moved up marginally in class his style and vaunted power were exposed. That being said i am a big fan of Lacy and love his attitude in and out of the ring. He`s great for boxing as he will fight anyone. But much like when David Reid or Vargas fought Tito it was clearly the wrong time for a guy as green as Lacy to be in the ring with a veteran like Joe. That being said Joe did exactly what he was supposed to do. Either way this was just a solid win and hardly the type of win that could elevate Joe to any ATG status in boxing. Joe beating Lacy is the equivalent of Jones beating Gonzalez. Worthy contender in the division but not much else beyond that and never went on to achieve much in this sport.

[janitor]

Very correct. There is no denying Joes talent or the fact that his been the number 1 since Sven retired as well as annexing all the belts which conviniently were held by Kessler (WBA WBC). But Joe had no intention of being a unified champ and nor did he want to defend his titles against all comers. He reliquished the IBF and did the same with the WBA and WBC and chased the big money in the twilight of his career. Looks very nice on paper of course but in reality his career was sorely lacking considering his abundance of natural talent.

Nothing you have said here is unreasonable.

I think however that a few observations have to be made:

Joe was willing to step up to the plate later in his career.

He fought Lacey who everybody thought would beat him however misguidedly. To give him his due a lot of people here confidently predicted that he would pull out of the fight with some bullsh1t excuse.

He fought Kessler, and lets face it Calzaghe Kessler was the dream fight everybody here talked about for a while.

The same people who downgrade Lacey picked Lacey to beat him.

The same people who hold up Kessler as his sole good win talked before the fight as if it was his chance at redemption.

The same people who describe Hopkins as a faded great picked Hopkins to beat him.


If you pick sombody to beat fighter A you give fighter A his due if he upsets the odds in your opinion.

[scurlaruntings]

Nothing you have said here is unreasonable.

I think however that a few observations have to be made:

Joe was willing to step up to the plate later in his career.

He fought Lacey who everybody thought would beat him however misguidedly. To give him his due a lot of people here confidently predicted that he would pull out of the fight with some bullsh1t excuse.

He fought Kessler, and lets face it Calzaghe Kessler was the dream fight everybody here talked about for a while.Agreed. Good fights but again not the type of fights that could elevate him to any ATG type status. Good names on his ledger nothing more or less though. Up to this day i still dont understand the guys that actually thought Lacy would KO Joe. I expected Joe to beat Lacy by UD but certainly not to beat him up the way he did. As for the Kessler fight too little was known about him to make any judgments. Most went on the statistics , undefeated, unified WBA WBC, and used that as some sort of angle as to the beating of Joe. Prior to that fight id seen Kessler fight once against journeyman Andre Thysse. Worthy opponent most defintly, the kind of name to elevate Joes status in boxing, no way.

[janitor]

The problem here was two fold. Jeff was touted as one of the best US prospects after the Olympics. Some even likened him to Mike Tyson :blood Jeff had a VERY crowd pleasing style, a great attitude and was great as a TV fighter. BUT he was as green as grass when he fought Joe, and the facts remain he was a VERY flawed fighter. This isnt hindsight as it was very apparent long before he fought Joe. Eyebrows were raised when he struggled with a shot Omar Sheika and Richard Grant, and prior to Joe had fought no one of any note. As he moved up marginally in class his style and vaunted power were exposed. That being said i am a big fan of Lacy and love his attitude in and out of the ring. He`s great for boxing as he will fight anyone. But much like when David Reid or Vargas fought Tito it was clearly the wrong time for a guy as green as Lacy to be in the ring with a veteran like Joe. That being said Joe did exactly what he was supposed to do. Either way this was just a solid win and hardly the type of win that could elevate Joe to any ATG status in boxing. Joe beating Lacy is the equivalent of Jones beating Gonzalez. Worthy contender in the division but not much else beyond that and never went on to achieve much in this sport.

Lacey was obviously overrated.

But lets not forget exactly what was going on before the Calzaghe fight.

The majority of people on this board thought that Calzaghe was a sacrificial lamb though few will admit it today.

The BBC drew up a list of how they had fared against comon oponents and Lacey had the edge in all but one.

Calzaghe sustained a hand injury in training and wanted to cancel the fight then thought better of it.

I was a Calzaghe critic before that fight. I said that I would give him credit for lasting the distance (yes I said it).

[scurlaruntings]

You mean ****** implored him to go out and fight because they had already made a £1m payment to Lacy in the event that Joe would pull out. May be if he didnt have the hand injury he may have stopped Lacy who was by all accounts on the verge of a KO loss. Why his corner never pulled him out il never know.

[brown bomber]

I watched the Brewer, Mtchell and Pudwell fights yesterday... I didn't feel I was watching an ATG. Calzaghe is just like a premier division club forging themselves in the conference.

[scurlaruntings]

I watched the Brewer, Mtchell and Pudwell fights yesterday... I didn't feel I was watching an ATG. Calzaghe is just like a premier division club forging themselves in the conference.There was nothing great about any of those performances. Pudwill was a journyeman. Brewer was very faded and gave Joe his toughest fight to date which Joe said himself after the bout. And Mitchell had him eating dirt in a relatively poor stoppage. There was nothing great about any of those performances.

[brown bomber]

There was nothing great about any of those performances. Pudwill was a journyeman. Brewer was very faded and gave Joe his toughest fight to date which Joe said himself after the bout. And Mitchell had him eating dirt in a relatively poor stoppage. There was nothing great about any of those performances.The only fight that made me think WOW was the LAcy one and that was because it was meant to be competitive and it wasn't.

[janitor]

I watched the Brewer, Mtchell and Pudwell fights yesterday... I didn't feel I was watching an ATG. Calzaghe is just like a premier division club forging themselves in the conference.


Calzaghes style wont be to everybodys taste but it was effective. One historic fighter who employed a similar slapping aproach was Maxie Rosenbloom (Slapsie Maxie). While he was criticised for his style nobody wanted to fight him because he was almost imposible to outpoint and always made you look bad.

Also some fighters hhave a tendancy to train down to the level of their oponent so a nobody will make them look bad one day but on another they will beat a hall of famer.

Not all that is gold glitters.

[brown bomber]

Calzaghes style wont be to everybodys taste but it was effective. One historic fighter who employed a similar slapping aproach was Maxie Rosenbloom (Slapsie Maxie). While he was criticised for his style nobody wanted to fight him because he was almost imposible to outpoint and always made you look bad.

Also some fighters hhave a tendancy to train down to the level of their oponent so a nobody will make them look bad one day but on another they will beat a hall of famer.

Not all that is gold glitters. For such an excellent promoter of the sports glory years, your support of Calzaghe and his paper record and title reign is rather puzzling.

[janitor]

For such an excellent promoter of the sports glory years, your support of Calzaghe and his paper record and title reign is rather puzzling.

I guess you have to focus on the positives when sombody retires.

[brown bomber]

I guess you have to focus on the positives when sombody retires.You may have a point....

[JonOli]

****** predicts Calzaghe comeback

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

He's only been retired a couple to days. :D