Did Ali duck anyone?

[fg2227]

Well

[Luigi1985]

Ali was a fearless warrior, he fought everyone everytime, even when he was old and sick...

[ChrisPontius]

He should've fought Foreman in 76/77 but the sanctioning bodies wouldn't strip him. The fact that he already beat Foreman decisively kind of makes up for it, though.

[ozziebattler]

The elite fighters in the heavyweight division back then rarely if ever ducked people..

Real warriors..

Who times have changed...

[Sweet Science]

I once read in Foreman's autobiography, that Ali had approached Foreman and asked him to fight Norton. I can't remember exactly what Foreman said word for word as I read it years ago but the gist of it was: 'Ali asked me to fight Norton as he admitted he could't beat him and he needed me to get him out of the picture before he would fight me again'

Obviously I don't know how much truth to that there is but who knows?

[ozziebattler]

Some reason Norton had Ali covered in my opinion..

Quess every fighter has that guy they really struggle against..

[My dinner with Conteh]

He ducked a rematch with George but he knew he was coming to the end around then. So it's forgivable.

[DocDevil]

I don't think Ali ducked anyone.Ali fought everyone.That was his problem.He gave fighters Like Cleveland Williams and Zora Folley a shot at the title,even thought they were past it.He knew they deserved a shot years before.I guess there are two types of champions.Patterson had the rep of ducking people,Ali,Louis etc,had the rep of fighting an occasional bum.

[My dinner with Conteh]

I once read in Foreman's autobiography, that Ali had approached Foreman and asked him to fight Norton. I can't remember exactly what Foreman said word for word as I read it years ago but the gist of it was: 'Ali asked me to fight Norton as he admitted he could't beat him and he needed me to get him out of the picture before he would fight me again'

Obviously I don't know how much truth to that there is but who knows?


The version I read had Ali saying "Can't you get rid of Norton man, he's a pain in the ass". :D

[Sweet Science]

The version I read had Ali saying "Can't you get rid of Norton man, he's a pain in the ass". :D

You might be right, it was a long time ago when I read it. I think it was in George's autobiography I believe it was called 'By George'. I could be wrong.

[fg2227]

I would say that other people deserved a shot before george, like jimmy young.

[My dinner with Conteh]

You might be right, it was a long time ago when I read it. I think it was in George's autobiography I believe it was called 'By George'. I could be wrong.


I read a different version in a mag. Not read George's book. Any good?

[My dinner with Conteh]

I would say that other people deserved a shot before george, like jimmy young.


He got one...and possibly won.

[Sweet Science]

I read a different version in a mag. Not read George's book. Any good?

Very so so. It would only interest you as a boxing fan, other than that it was very forgetable.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Very so so. It would only interest you as a boxing fan, other than that it was very forgetable.



That's what I heard. George is too nice to be a really good read methinks.

[Sweet Science]

That's what I heard. George is too nice to be a really good read methinks.

Yes very true, I seem to remember he was mostly overly complementary about most people in the book. But then isn't he always.

[fists of fury]

I loved Norton's tongue-in-cheek excuse for losing to Foreman - "I kept backing up and backing up and backing up...and I stumbled." Classic.

[slender4]

I read somewhere that Ali was afraid to fight, of all people, Duane Bobick (before Bobbick had the Norton debacle). Early in his career he Bobbick had a great record and was knocking everyone out. He was even managed and trained by Joe Frazier.

[KTFO]

Ali was a fearless warrior, he fought everyone everytime, even when he was old and sick...



Foreman II, when he wasn't sick at all.

[Duodenum]

As Bonavena said, Ali was a "chicken," who fattened up his record on tomato cans and stiffs like Shavers, Norton, Foreman, Frazier, Young, Lyle and Quarry and Chuvalo, or ne'er do wells like Liston, Patterson, Cleveland Williams, Folley, Mac Foster, Bob Foster, Jimmy Ellis, London, Moore, Cooper, Bugner and Mathis.

When he identified an opponent who was a particularly easy touch, he'd carry that sucker to dupe the public into thinking that sap was a genuine threat to beat him. Since he discovered that his easiest prey was Frazier and Norton, he maneuvered his way into not one, but TWO rematches with each, for a total of four more easy paydays.

That cowardly punk should have given Wepner a rematch, but instead, he ducks a second encounter with the heavyweight Jim Driscoll to cruise his way to yet another easy win over that warmed over corpse Frazier. (What a pansy!)

He wanted no part of Rudi Lubbers a second time around, and Blue Lewis nearly made him piss in his pants before the whole world. Southpaw Mildenberger made him shit bricks.

Much to Ali's dismay, he discovered that he couldn't duck Bonavena forever, but he did manage to evade Ringo for three years, until he had a chance to build himself up to the point where Oscar might not blow him completely over, as the Argentine nearly did Frazier. How scared of Bonavena was he? Well, he finally couldn't avoid signing a contract to face that deaded bull in Tokyo, so he bribed his local draft board to reclassify him from 4F to 1A for military induction. But when he learned to his horror that the military was going to release him to meet his contractual obligation to Bonavena, he refused to be inducted, and begged the authorities to lock him in prison so he'd be safe from Ringo. Unfortunately, he didn't have sufficient funds to adequately bribe them, so that terrified kid wound up in the ring with Charley Goldman's other protege, Marciano. Eventually, Ali gunned down Bonavena outside a Las Vegas whorehouse, so he wouldn't have to face him again.

When Rocky realized how easily he could take Ali, even at 45, he decided to challenge him to a real fight. Knowing that he would otherwise be doomed, Ali bribed an airport mechanic to sabotage the plane Marciano was flying in.

It wasn't just Bonavena, Lewis, Marciano, Lubbers and Wepner that he was afraid of, but he didn't want any part of Evangelista in a rematch either. Finally, after he saw Mike Rossman thrash Galindez and Traversaro, he decided to quit, rather that have to defend his ill gotten title against the Jewish Bomber.

Now that I've studiously set the record straight, who's the real mallard?

[My dinner with Conteh]

Ali's 'The Drake'. :yep

[JohnThomas1]

Ali's 'The Drake'. :yep

LMAO, and we know the title in trashbin man is known as "Chicken" Bowe. Tyson paid Lewis to step out one time, could he be the "Goose"

:hey

[Sam Dixon]

I read somewhere that Ali was afraid to fight, of all people, Duane Bobick (before Bobbick had the Norton debacle). Early in his career he Bobbick had a great record and was knocking everyone out. He was even managed and trained by Joe Frazier.

Teddy Brenner speaks of that ill fated Ali/Bobick fight in his book "Only The Ring Was Square" and you can get the actual matchmaker's views on why that fight didn't come off after it was signed and ready to go for MSG in early 1977

[Duodenum]

Aw jeez, now this is becoming an ornithology thread:patsch.

[JohnThomas1]

Aw jeez, now this is becoming an ornithology thread:patsch.

Does that have something to do with horniness?

:hey

[Duodenum]

Does that have something to do with horniness?

:heyHey mate, get a room in the Lounge! (Then again, we are discussing birds.)

[C. M. Clay II]

Ali did duck George Chuvalo in 1963. That's about it.:good

[Marciano Frazier]

Nope. You name a top 10 heavyweight anytime from the early '60s through the late '70s, and the odds are Ali fought them. There has never been a heavyweight champion who cleaned out the top ranks of the division so thoroughly as Ali did.

[AnthonyJ74]

Ali was a fearless warrior, he fought everyone everytime, even when he was old and sick...

I think Ali probably ducked Larry Holmes prior to Holmes winning the WBC belt. Ali knew that Holmes was a good fighter from all of the years that they sparred together. Holmes was a rated contender for quite a while before he fought Norton in '78. Ali fought guys like Richard Dunn, Jean Pierre Coopman, Alfredo Evangelista and Chuck Wepner; Larry Holmes was better than all of those guys put together! Ali fought Holmes in 1980 because he had to, as Holmes was the legitimate champion. But when Ali had the belt and Holmes was a contender, I don't think Ali was too interested in swapping punches with Holmes!

[Lex]

Yeh, the nearest Ali came to "ducking" anyone was prolly delaying Holmes. Ali always had trouble with tall, long armed fighters with good jabs. And by the time Holmes was a top contender, Ali had already been threatening to retire after every tough defense. He probably thought it was too much risk after struggling against Norton. A younger Ali against a prime Holmes would have been interesting.

[anut]

YA HE KINDA DUCKED FOREMAN 4 A REMATCH.....:smoke:smoke:smoke

[Sonny's jab]

Ali never ducked anyone, IMO, but Eddie Machen is the notable ommission on his career record.

[jowcol]

Ali never ducked anyone, IMO, but Eddie Machen is the notable ommission on his career record.

You just took the words out of my mouth!!! Great answer.
Tho this may have been a Dundee decision at the time (circa late 62-early 63). By the time he was champ Eddie was heading down the hill and Ali wouldn't have had much problem but a 62-63 Machen just may have been too slick and could have put an early L on Clay's record. I don't think Angie wanted his man in with Eddie at that time.
My $0.02

[Smokin'Joe100]

Everyone knows Ali ducked Kent Green in 1979. The man was blatantly shit scared of Green having been bombed out by him in the amateurs.

[Sweet Science]

Everyone knows Ali ducked Kent Green in 1979. The man was blatantly shit scared of Green having been bombed out by him in the amateurs.

Who is Kent Green?

I must admit I've never heard of him.

[Senya13]

He refused to give rematches to Doug Jones and Billy Daniels after he struggled with them. He didn't really press enough for a rematch with Joe Frazier for a while after his first official loss.

[Duodenum]

Who is Kent Green?

I must admit I've never heard of him.Kent Green was a southpaw in the amateur ranks who posted the only stoppage win over him until his disastrous showing against Holmes. When Green was in his late 30's, he and Ali had a sparring exhibition as part of the buildup for that ill fated comeback against Larry, with Green's stoppage win being the hook for selling the performance.

[mcvey]

I loved Norton's tongue-in-cheek excuse for losing to Foreman - "I kept backing up and backing up and backing up...and I stumbled." Classic.
Yes he slipped on the pile of shit that came out of his trunks!

[mcvey]

Well
Ali was 33 when he fought George Foreman a man the Ring magazine had on the cover with the headline "Is This The Hardest Hitting Heavyweight Of All Time?",Alicame out of 3 I/2 years of exile to take on Jerry Quarry,does this sound like a man who ducked people to you?,He fought the men who gave him the most trouble Frazier and Norton 3 times each,I dont think there is any case to answer here.

[My dinner with Conteh]

He 'avoided' a Foreman rematch, no doubts. He initially accepted it, early 1976, it was pencilled in for later that year. Then Ali announced his retirement...then he informed the WBC he would box again. After Foreman gatecrashed an Ali conference he said he would fight him, this was November 1976 (as below)...then he retired again. Fight off. The WBC insisted that the Foreman match must take place by April 1977 and be signed for by January.

In early '77 Ali said he need 'two warm up fights' before taking on George again, to which Foreman replied: "Why not fight now. Sign today, I am the mandatory after all". In the meantime, Ali didn't sign up for the rematch; its cutting off point was supposedly January 1977, the WBC still didn't strip him when he elected to take on the might of Evangelista instead.

Soon after Ken Norton wrote an open letter to Boxing Illustrated basically saying how disgusted his was with the authorities letting Ali take the piss out of them and that he'd only made one mandatory defence of his regained crown- John Conteh and Carlos Monzon were immediately stripped of theirs when the former broke his hand and the latter signed to fight the undisputed welter champ, Ali didn't have such reason ohter than he was Ali and that's that. An impatient Foreman foolishly signed to fight Young, found God, ate a lot, shaved head, had 20 more kids called George, became businessman, came back, etc etc.




[Only registered and activated users can see links]


...only he didn't when it came to signing.

[Sweet Science]

Kent Green was a southpaw in the amateur ranks who posted the only stoppage win over him until his disastrous showing against Holmes. When Green was in his late 30's, he and Ali had a sparring exhibition as part of the buildup for that ill fated comeback against Larry, with Green's stoppage win being the hook for selling the performance.

Thanks for that Duodenum.

This guy stopped Ali in the amateurs!? Wow, I didn't know anyone had ever stopped Ali, even in the amateurs. What were the circumstances of the stoppage (was Ali knocked down before he was stopped etc) ? Is there any known footage of this fight available? I'd really like to see this fight if there is.

[Smokin'Joe100]

Thanks for that Duodenum.

This guy stopped Ali in the amateurs!? Wow, I didn't know anyone had ever stopped Ali, even in the amateurs. What were the circumstances of the stoppage (was Ali knocked down before he was stopped etc) ? Is there any known footage of this fight available? I'd really like to see this fight if there is.

I don't think Ali was floored. Ali or Clay as he was then, was 16 and Kent Green was older and more experienced. He was stopped in the 2nd after Joe Martin threw in the towel, after Clay was caught on the ropes and took a pretty hard and flush combination that really rattled him. He wasn't knocked down or out, but he would have been if the fight wasn't stopped, because he was out on his feet. I don't think there is any footage of the bout, only reports.

[Sweet Science]

I don't think Ali was floored. Ali or Clay as he was then, was 16 and Kent Green was older and more experienced. He was stopped in the 2nd after Joe Martin threw in the towel, after Clay was caught on the ropes and took a pretty hard and flush combination that really rattled him. He wasn't knocked down or out, but he would have been if the fight wasn't stopped, because he was out on his feet. I don't think there is any footage of the bout, only reports.

Thanks for the info Smokin' Joe. Much appreciated.
I suppose if he was only 16 it's forgivable as presumably Cassius would have been very green (unlike Kent). It is a shame theres footage or even pics.

[Duodenum]

Thanks for that Duodenum.

This guy stopped Ali in the amateurs!? Wow, I didn't know anyone had ever stopped Ali, even in the amateurs. What were the circumstances of the stoppage (was Ali knocked down before he was stopped etc) ? Is there any known footage of this fight available? I'd really like to see this fight if there is.

It was reportedly on February 26, 1957, in the Chicago Golden Gloves Quarterfinals, that 17 year old seasoned amateur hometowner Green handed the 15 year old Clay his final defeat until the FOTC. Most reports I've found so far have it recorded as a second round technical knockout, though a couple have it listed as a third round stoppage. Green was the 1958 Chicago Golden Gloves LHW Champion. It is alleged that a photograph taken shows Green standing over young Clay on the floor after a knockdown.

As a professional, Green posted a record of 12W (6 KO) 2L 0D from 1959 to 1969, and handed Amos Johnson his first defeat early in their careers. Apparently, Green and Ali remained friendly for over 20 years.

I can find very little about Green on-line:huh . The best source for more information about this occurrance would probably be the sports pages of a Chicago newspaper gone to press on the following day. If footage of this event exists, an indication of it might be identified there. (A Louisville, KY sports section for 2-27-1957 might also include more news concerning this match.)

That's about the best I can do for now. There are a couple of entries for Green on boxwreck, including a brief biography with a mugshot:deal.

Nothing I've located about him indicates he was a southpaw. That is my own potentially faulty recollection of an interview Howard Cosell conducted with Ali when Muhammad resigned his WBA HW Title in 1979, after he was asked about his difficulties with left handed opposition. He mentioned losing to a southpaw in the amateurs, and I believe it's Green whose name he mentioned.

[punchy]

Ali should have ducked Jimmy Young he looked shocking.

[Sweet Science]

It was reportedly on February 26, 1957, in the Chicago Golden Gloves Quarterfinals, that 17 year old seasoned amateur hometowner Green handed the 15 year old Clay his final defeat until the FOTC. Most reports I've found so far have it recorded as a second round technical knockout, though a couple have it listed as a third round stoppage. Green was the 1958 Chicago Golden Gloves LHW Champion. It is alleged that a photograph taken shows Green standing over young Clay on the floor after a knockdown.

As a professional, Green posted a record of 12W (6 KO) 2L 0D from 1959 to 1969, and handed Amos Johnson his first defeat early in their careers. Apparently, Green and Ali remained friendly for over 20 years.

I can find very little about Green on-line:huh . The best source for more information about this occurrance would probably be the sports pages of a Chicago newspaper gone to press on the following day. If footage of this event exists, an indication of it might be identified there. (A Louisville, KY sports section for 2-27-1957 might also include more news concerning this match.)

That's about the best I can do for now. There are a couple of entries for Green on boxwreck, including a brief biography with a mugshot:deal.

Nothing I've located about him indicates he was a southpaw. That is my own potentially faulty recollection of an interview Howard Cosell conducted with Ali when Muhammad resigned his WBA HW Title in 1979, after he was asked about his difficulties with left handed opposition. He mentioned losing to a southpaw in the amateurs, and I believe it's Green whose name he mentioned.

Many thanks for that info Duodenum, really appreciate it mate. :thumbsup

[Duodenum]

Many thanks for that info Duodenum, really appreciate it mate. :thumbsupI'm just a bloke doing the best I can.

[My dinner with Conteh]

I have an interview with Kent Green from 1978, I'll have to find it. It also comments, verbatim, on the original fight report from the amateur section of Boxing News (from 1958).

[Sweet Science]

I have an interview with Kent Green from 1978, I'll have to find it. It also comments, verbatim, on the original fight report from the amateur section of Boxing News (from 1958).

Please let me know if you find the Interview and fight report, I'd love to have a read of it.

[Titan1]

Possibly Norton in the 77-78 stage.

[Pachilles]

So there we have it, he ducked people whom he actually fought several times past his prime.

[Bokaj]

He refused to give rematches to Doug Jones and Billy Daniels after he struggled with them.

This I doubt. He schooled Young in an exhibition in 1966. Why would he do an exhibition with him, but duck a regular fight?

He didn't really press enough for a rematch with Joe Frazier for a while after his first official loss.

Now this is dead wrong. He called for a rematch several times (after the Quarry rematch for example) if anything I think Joe was a bit reluctant.

But after Norton III Ali clearly avoided tough challenges (Foreman and Norton).

[janitor]

So there we have it, he ducked people whom he actually fought several times past his prime.

Esentialy.

There are always going to be tactical decisions in matchind a champion, and you can always find something to criticise.

If anybody genuinely got screwed it was Ken Norton, at the end of Ali's reign. That was perhaps the narrow window where he should have ascended to the lineal title.

[leverage]

As Bonavena said, Ali was a "chicken," who fattened up his record on tomato cans and stiffs like Shavers, Norton, Foreman, Frazier, Young, Lyle and Quarry and Chuvalo, or ne'er do wells like Liston, Patterson, Cleveland Williams, Folley, Mac Foster, Bob Foster, Jimmy Ellis, London, Moore, Cooper, Bugner and Mathis.

When he identified an opponent who was a particularly easy touch, he'd carry that sucker to dupe the public into thinking that sap was a genuine threat to beat him. Since he discovered that his easiest prey was Frazier and Norton, he maneuvered his way into not one, but TWO rematches with each, for a total of four more easy paydays.

That cowardly punk should have given Wepner a rematch, but instead, he ducks a second encounter with the heavyweight Jim Driscoll to cruise his way to yet another easy win over that warmed over corpse Frazier. (What a pansy!)

He wanted no part of Rudi Lubbers a second time around, and Blue Lewis nearly made him piss in his pants before the whole world. Southpaw Mildenberger made him shit bricks.

Much to Ali's dismay, he discovered that he couldn't duck Bonavena forever, but he did manage to evade Ringo for three years, until he had a chance to build himself up to the point where Oscar might not blow him completely over, as the Argentine nearly did Frazier. How scared of Bonavena was he? Well, he finally couldn't avoid signing a contract to face that deaded bull in Tokyo, so he bribed his local draft board to reclassify him from 4F to 1A for military induction. But when he learned to his horror that the military was going to release him to meet his contractual obligation to Bonavena, he refused to be inducted, and begged the authorities to lock him in prison so he'd be safe from Ringo. Unfortunately, he didn't have sufficient funds to adequately bribe them, so that terrified kid wound up in the ring with Charley Goldman's other protege, Marciano. Eventually, Ali gunned down Bonavena outside a Las Vegas whorehouse, so he wouldn't have to face him again.

When Rocky realized how easily he could take Ali, even at 45, he decided to challenge him to a real fight. Knowing that he would otherwise be doomed, Ali bribed an airport mechanic to sabotage the plane Marciano was flying in.

It wasn't just Bonavena, Lewis, Marciano, Lubbers and Wepner that he was afraid of, but he didn't want any part of Evangelista in a rematch either. Finally, after he saw Mike Rossman thrash Galindez and Traversaro, he decided to quit, rather that have to defend his ill gotten title against the Jewish Bomber.

Now that I've studiously set the record straight, who's the real mallard?Pure, 100% bullshit! You didn't set anything straight, the only thing you did was let people know how ignorant you are. You obviously know very little if anything about boxing if you really believe what you wrote.

[AndrewFFC]

I think Ali probably ducked Larry Holmes prior to Holmes winning the WBC belt. Ali knew that Holmes was a good fighter from all of the years that they sparred together. Holmes was a rated contender for quite a while before he fought Norton in '78. Ali fought guys like Richard Dunn, Jean Pierre Coopman, Alfredo Evangelista and Chuck Wepner; Larry Holmes was better than all of those guys put together! Ali fought Holmes in 1980 because he had to, as Holmes was the legitimate champion. But when Ali had the belt and Holmes was a contender, I don't think Ali was too interested in swapping punches with Holmes!


So Ali ducked someone he actually fought (at a later stage, when he himself was a worse fighter and Holmes a better fighter)?

[reznick]

All I know, is that Ali fought Shavers in 1977. 1977!!

Only a mad man would do that after such an illustrious career. But you know what, he did that fight for Shavers, and he did it for us. He knew if he didn't fight Shavers, it would have looked bad for the record books.

So he fought Earnie, because he promised him, and he also fought him for you, me, and all of us. He did it for the boxing enthusiasts and historians like ourselves. woohoo!

ALI ALI ALI!



sorry I get carried away.... :)

[Boxed Ears]

I once read in Foreman's autobiography, that Ali had approached Foreman and asked him to fight Norton. I can't remember exactly what Foreman said word for word as I read it years ago but the gist of it was: 'Ali asked me to fight Norton as he admitted he could't beat him and he needed me to get him out of the picture before he would fight me again'

Obviously I don't know how much truth to that there is but who knows?

:lol: Yeah, I read it in Foreman's book too. It was right before Ali said "George, I'm getting fat. The Greatest can't be fat. I need a new way to cook burgers. A less fatty way...any ideas?"

[Stone Roses]

Absolutely not.

[Stevie G]

As Bonavena said, Ali was a "chicken," who fattened up his record on tomato cans and stiffs like Shavers, Norton, Foreman, Frazier, Young, Lyle and Quarry and Chuvalo, or ne'er do wells like Liston, Patterson, Cleveland Williams, Folley, Mac Foster, Bob Foster, Jimmy Ellis, London, Moore, Cooper, Bugner and Mathis.

When he identified an opponent who was a particularly easy touch, he'd carry that sucker to dupe the public into thinking that sap was a genuine threat to beat him. Since he discovered that his easiest prey was Frazier and Norton, he maneuvered his way into not one, but TWO rematches with each, for a total of four more easy paydays.

That cowardly punk should have given Wepner a rematch, but instead, he ducks a second encounter with the heavyweight Jim Driscoll to cruise his way to yet another easy win over that warmed over corpse Frazier. (What a pansy!)

He wanted no part of Rudi Lubbers a second time around, and Blue Lewis nearly made him piss in his pants before the whole world. Southpaw Mildenberger made him shit bricks.

Much to Ali's dismay, he discovered that he couldn't duck Bonavena forever, but he did manage to evade Ringo for three years, until he had a chance to build himself up to the point where Oscar might not blow him completely over, as the Argentine nearly did Frazier. How scared of Bonavena was he? Well, he finally couldn't avoid signing a contract to face that deaded bull in Tokyo, so he bribed his local draft board to reclassify him from 4F to 1A for military induction. But when he learned to his horror that the military was going to release him to meet his contractual obligation to Bonavena, he refused to be inducted, and begged the authorities to lock him in prison so he'd be safe from Ringo. Unfortunately, he didn't have sufficient funds to adequately bribe them, so that terrified kid wound up in the ring with Charley Goldman's other protege, Marciano. Eventually, Ali gunned down Bonavena outside a Las Vegas whorehouse, so he wouldn't have to face him again.

When Rocky realized how easily he could take Ali, even at 45, he decided to challenge him to a real fight. Knowing that he would otherwise be doomed, Ali bribed an airport mechanic to sabotage the plane Marciano was flying in.

It wasn't just Bonavena, Lewis, Marciano, Lubbers and Wepner that he was afraid of, but he didn't want any part of Evangelista in a rematch either. Finally, after he saw Mike Rossman thrash Galindez and Traversaro, he decided to quit, rather that have to defend his ill gotten title against the Jewish Bomber.

Now that I've studiously set the record straight, who's the real mallard?
:lol: :good

[Stevie G]

Nope. You name a top 10 heavyweight anytime from the early '60s through the late '70s, and the odds are Ali fought them. There has never been a heavyweight champion who cleaned out the top ranks of the division so thoroughly as Ali did.
A veritable who's who of boxing :good It's true that after Manila,Muhammad was n't interested in being quite as much of a fighting champion as he was prior,but he'd already laid down the most impressive resume of all. And he did offer Foreman a rematch in 1975. George was too interested in fighting a meaningless exhibition in Toronto.

[TommyV]

Some reason Norton had Ali covered in my opinion..

Quess every fighter has that guy they really struggle against..

I disagree. Norton gave Ali fits because of his jab and obviously Ali's technical flaws in defending himself against the jab were exposed in that fight. But in the past he's faced great jabbers, such as Terrell, and negated his jab comfortably with his movement. Ali was obviously slowed by the time Norton got to him, otherwise I don't think Ali struggles so much with that jab.

[yaca you]

Pure, 100% bullshit! You didn't set anything straight, the only thing you did was let people know how ignorant you are. You obviously know very little if anything about boxing if you really believe what you wrote.


he was joking man.:patsch

[Bokaj]

I disagree. Norton gave Ali fits because of his jab and obviously Ali's technical flaws in defending himself against the jab were exposed in that fight. But in the past he's faced great jabbers, such as Terrell, and negated his jab comfortably with his movement. Ali was obviously slowed by the time Norton got to him, otherwise I don't think Ali struggles so much with that jab.

It was not just the jab, though. He had problems timing Norton and getting through his guard. Norton had a very awkward style and it gave Ali problems. Ali didn't seem to like (other) unorthodox fighters in general. Bonavena and Frazier are other examples of fighters Ali had difficulty finding his rhytm against.

[Stevie G]

Please let me know if you find the Interview and fight report, I'd love to have a read of it.
Me too.

[Stevie G]

This I doubt. He schooled Young in an exhibition in 1966. Why would he do an exhibition with him, but duck a regular fight?



Now this is dead wrong. He called for a rematch several times (after the Quarry rematch for example) if anything I think Joe was a bit reluctant.

But after Norton III Ali clearly avoided tough challenges (Foreman and Norton).
You're certainly right that Ali campaigned hard for a rematch with Joe. Every fight that he had after FOTC,he'd express his wish to get Frazier back in the ring. And yes,Frazier was the one who was reluctant. As you say,after Norton 3,Muhammad tended to opt for those that he saw as easier fights. He knew that the well was virtually dry at that point.

[Stevie G]

All I know, is that Ali fought Shavers in 1977. 1977!!

Only a mad man would do that after such an illustrious career. But you know what, he did that fight for Shavers, and he did it for us. He knew if he didn't fight Shavers, it would have looked bad for the record books.

So he fought Earnie, because he promised him, and he also fought him for you, me, and all of us. He did it for the boxing enthusiasts and historians like ourselves. woohoo!

ALI ALI ALI!



sorry I get carried away.... :)
:good

[Azzer85]

Ali's the Greatest Simple As, he ducked no one and beat them all

[johnmaff36]

No. Even the suggestion is laughable

[My dinner with Conteh]

That he ducked the Foreman rematch, has been proven beyond reasonable doubt on these pages. :cool:

[turpinr]

That he ducked the Foreman rematch, has been proven beyond reasonable doubt on these pages. :cool:as you said, he'd already beaten him, so is forgiven

[My dinner with Conteh]

It is, that's why it's not common knowledge I suppose, Ali chose his fights carefully after 1976 and wanted to hold on to the title without risking much. But it still happened. What isn't forgivable is the sanctioning bodies not coming down harder and insisting on the fight, when it was they who installed Foreman as mandatory.

[FastHands(beeb)]

Ali definitely ducked a fourth meeting with Norton.

[Foreman Hook]

It is, that's why it's not common knowledge I suppose, Ali chose his fights carefully after 1976 and wanted to hold on to the title without risking much. But it still happened. What isn't forgivable is the sanctioning bodies not coming down harder and insisting on the fight, when it was they who installed Foreman as mandatory.


Fucking-A. :thumbsup

Ali ducked a rematch with Foreman, cos he Knew he would be KTFO, without his loose-as-a-whore ropes, poisoned-Foreman And v.hot Africa sunshine to help him.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I have teh issue in pic above, i remember buying it in Dec 1975 - But my is not signed by Big George.

[Jorodz]

Fucking-A. :thumbsup

Ali ducked a rematch with Foreman, cos he Knew he would be KTFO, without his loose-as-a-whore ropes, poisoned-Foreman And v.hot Africa sunshine to help him.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I have teh issue in pic above, i remember buying it in Dec 1975 - But my is not signed by Big George.

or....foreman was a crude thug in zaire and got outboxed by a vastly superior technician.

and you forgot the curse papa shango put on foreman in the list of excuses:rasta