Classic Forum! Let us decide on the Best 10 Wins in History!

[DINAMITA]

I'd like this to be a decent debate/discussion, so I'm not going to bother posting a list because all that happens in that instance is that people focus on disagreeing with it rather than putting forward their own suggestions (plus a best win list is a very very subjective and difficult thing to do IMO and I don't have time to think it through thoroughly on my own, I'm bored at work just now and think this could be a very interesting thread!).

However, there are a couple of wins which spring to mind immediately for this list and which I will propose now for definite inclusion:

- DURAN v LEONARD I
- GREB v TUNNEY I
- LANGFORD's win over WILLS
- FRAZIER v ALI I


And there are others I will put up for consideration as they are wins that I believe are legitimate contenders:

- ALI v FOREMAN
- DOUGLAS v TYSON
- ARMSTRONG v ROSS
- ROBINSON v GAVILAN II
- LEONARD v HAGLER
- HARADA v JOFRE I or II
- FITZSIMMONS v CORBETT
- CHARLES v MOORE I or III
- BURLEY v MOORE
- LAMOTTA v ROBINSON I
- ALI v LISTON I


Let's make a Classic Forum Top Ten Wins Of All-Time!

All opinions/comments welcome!

:bbb



PS: This is a thread about BEST WINS, and the criteria for a BEST WIN is QUALITY OF OPPONENT and QUALITY OF PERFORMANCE - this thread is NOT NOT NOT asking for the TOP TEN WINS WITH REGARD TO HISTORIC STANDING/SOCIAL IMPACT/CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE etc etc, it's about the quality of the win as an in-ring feat of boxing only!!!!!

[janitor]

To suggest a few more posibilities:

Jimmy Wildes win over Joe Lynch

Max Schmelings win over Joe Louis

Mickey Walkers draw against Jack Sharkey

Barbados Joe Walcotts win over Joe Choynski

Jem Driscolls win over Abe Attel

Mike Gibbons win over Jack Dillon

[GPater11093]

To suggest a few more posibilities:

Bob Fitzsimmons win over Jim Corbett

Max Schmelings win over Joe Louis

Mickey Walkers draw against Jack Sharkey

Barbados Joe Walcotts win over Joe Choynski

Jem Driscolls win over Abe Attel

janitor 10 best wins in history and you put up a draw come on execpt from that some good points especially schmeling over louis i would also shove in the rematch aswell

[janitor]

janitor 10 best wins in history and you put up a draw

I felt compelled to mention it.

A former welterweight champion one punch away from defeating a future heavyweight champion.

[janitor]

Terry McGoverns win over Joe Gans if it was on the level.

If it wasnt then his win over Pedlar Palmer would still merit consideration.

[PowerPuncher]

- ALI v FOREMAN - YES
- DOUGLAS v TYSON - Tyson was out of sorts
- ARMSTRONG v ROSS - hmm ok
- ROBINSON v GAVILAN II - Both greats but Galivan would lose 5times in the next year
- LEONARD v HAGLER - YES
- HARADA v JOFRE I or II - perhaps
- FITZSIMMONS v CORBETT - perhaps
- CHARLES v MOORE I or III - I'd go with 3
- BURLEY v MOORE - Maybe although Moore was a little inexperienced
- LAMOTTA v ROBINSON I - both inexperienced, I love the last fight
- ALI v LISTON I - YES, although top 10 maybe a stretch

[PowerPuncher]

Does this include performance aswell as the wins significance?

For consideration:

Leonard-Hearns 1
Napoles-Griffith
Jones Jr - Toney/Hopkins
BHOPs-Tito (Tito was P4P no1)
Tunney-Dempsey 1
Barrera-Morales 1 (which Barrera really won by a landslide)
Pacquaio-Barrera 1 (domination over a top3 P4Per and legend)
Pacquaio-Delahoya (amazing weight hopping and what if DLH isnt shot?)

Dominations Over Top Level Champs

Foreman-Frazier
Liston-Patterson
Tyson-Spinks
Patterson-Moore

Wins in great great fights

Benn-McCellan
Eubanks-Benn1
Eubanks-Watson2
Hagler-Hearns
Hamed-Kelly

[McGrain]

A wee bump for anyone looking for ten.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[McGrain]

The best win missing so far is Charles second PTS win over Burley. Astonishing for such a young man.

[Drew101]

Sandy Saddler-Willie Pep 1

[GPater11093]

pep-saddler 2 thats a good win aswell drew

[mrplow182]

Jim Driscoll over Abe Atell.........complete shut out and a disgrace that he never got given the belt afterwards. From what I've read his jab that night was perfection.

[Maxmomer]

To suggest a few more posibilities:

Jimmy Wildes win over Benny Lynch

Max Schmelings win over Joe Louis

Mickey Walkers draw against Jack Sharkey

Barbados Joe Walcotts win over Joe Choynski

Jem Driscolls win over Abe Attel

Mike Gibbons win over Jack Dillon

I've always found that one to be remarkably impressive and overlooked.

[mrplow182]

Dick Tiger vs Jose Torres (1966) as a possible nomination........

[Bokaj]

I don't mean to provoke, but the more I think about it, Douglas's win over Tyson stand out. People can say what they will about Tyson's state of mind, but the fact is Douglas was 42-1 underdog and he THOROUGLY DOMINATED Tyson, who was rightly seen as invicible at the time. When has something like that ever been done before or after?

[mrplow182]

I don't mean to provoke, but the more I think about it, Douglas's win over Tyson stand out. People can say what they will about Tyson's state of mind, but the fact is Douglas was 42-1 underdog and he THOROUGLY DOMINATED Tyson, who was rightly seen as invicible at the time. When has something like that ever been done before or after?

Douglas was technically counted out at one stage and allowed to get up after the 10 apparently...

No doubt that was a huge win but I dunno about 10 best ever calibre

[Maxmomer]

He got up at nine....?

[Mike T]

Foreman vs Moorer

[mrplow182]

He got up at nine....?

Don King wanted the fight outcome written off........it was a slow count

Either way the victory and manner of victory was excellent but the whole performance doesn't deserve top 10 all time

[teeto]

Has anyone mentioned Tunney's one and only yet? Sorry if someone has.

[Bokaj]

Douglas was technically counted out at one stage and allowed to get up after the 10 apparently...

No doubt that was a huge win but I dunno about 10 best ever calibre

Get real. Watch the tape and you will se Douglas following the count from early on. Should he have kept his own stop watch?

[mrplow182]

Get real. Watch the tape and you will se Douglas following the count from early on. Should he have kept his own stop watch?

I said apparently and am well aware of what happened in the fight....that controversy topped with the rest of Douglas' career puts this fight far out the top 10 of all time....

A top 10 all time win has to be great fighters beating other great fighters not just a one off knock out against an off colour and unfocussed Tyson

[teeto]

I think i must be very close to the biggest Tyson fan ever. He's the only boxer that i defend with bias, (and i won the last award for most unbiased poster of the year!!), but when i watched Douglas-Tyson last i must say it was special as the fight went on and Buster was throwing him up against the ropes and slamming him everywhere. The points about Mike being unfocused are something that may hold water, but if im not sure exactly how much on the subject of this thread. Just thought i'd add something to the debate, though i havent really committed to anything there!!

[mrplow182]

I think i must be very close to the biggest Tyson fan ever. He's the only boxer that i defend with bias, (and i won the last award for most unbiased poster of the year!!), but when i watched Douglas-Tyson last i must say it was special as the fight went on and Buster was throwing him up against the ropes and slamming him everywhere. The points about Mike being unfocused are something that may hold water, but if im not sure exactly how much on the subject of this thread. Just thought i'd add something to the debate, though i havent really committed to anything there!!

Like I said earlier...it was a massive upset, huge and the knockout made it more spectacular, but I feel it's not a top 10 win of all time. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.......

[GPater11093]

hopkins vs pavlik was quite an achievemnt

[teeto]

Like I said earlier...it was a massive upset, huge and the knockout made it more spectacular, but I feel it's not a top 10 win of all time. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.......
Nar im not saying you're wrong, i don't know, that's why i never really committed to anything, im just trying to get posting again so i added something on a fighter i like to talk about that's all!

If it was about upsets then it would definitely fit right in, i just don't know here though.

[My2Sense]

To suggest a few more posibilities:

Jimmy Wildes win over Benny Lynch


Eh? :huh

[My2Sense]

I think the two best wins in boxing history are:

1) Foreman-Frazier I - An undefeated, acknowledged HOF heavyweight champ is walked over in 2 rounds, dropped 6 times, and even lifted off the canvas with an uppercut, all of which seemed beyond the realm of comprehension coming in.

2) Armstrong-Ross - The world's top featherweight jumps up the equivalent of four weight classes, takes on a proven great, long-reigning, HOF welterweight champ, who had only lost 3 times in roughly 80 fights, and complete whups and outclasses him. Amazing.

As far as the rest of the list goes, here are some that I would most likely include in my ten (not in any order):

Duran-Leonard I
Ali-Foreman
Jofre-Legra
Douglas-Tyson
Fitzsimmons-Corbett
Spinks-Holmes I

...and then a few candidates I would consider for the rest of the list, or just on the fringes of it.

Zivic-Armstrong I
Ali-Liston I
Harada-Jofre I
Holyfield-Tyson I
Dempsey-Willard
Tunney-Dempsey I
Randall-Chavez I
Pacquiao-DeLaHoya
Tarver-Jones II
Leonard-Hearns I
Hearns-Hill

[GPater11093]

ali frazier 1 was the first clash of undefeated ex champion and champion for a world title

[PowerPuncher]

Douglas was technically counted out at one stage and allowed to get up after the 10 apparently...

No doubt that was a huge win but I dunno about 10 best ever calibre

No he wasn't 'technically counted out', the count is the refs count, not a 10second count, if it takes the ref 30seconds to count to 10 then thats the right count, end of discusion

[SteveO]

hopkins vs pavlik was quite an achievemnt

I agree.

However, that may stand to see how Pavlik's career ends up at the end of the day.

If he never does anything meaningful again, people will say what a hype job he was.

If he dominates the division he is most home at, then it gives Hopkins more credibility.

[asero]

demsey vs willard
johnson vs jeffries

[Maxmomer]

demsey vs willard
johnson vs jeffries

No. I don't see it. Jeffries was coming off of what? 5 years of inactivity? He had to drop about a hundred pounds to get into any kind of fighting shape. he didn't even take a tune-up so we don't know if he would have been effective against a lesser fighter than Johnson. Willard, likewise, was coming off of years of inactivity and was a bit out of shape. It's true that Dempsey overcame a huge size disadvantage and beat the shit out of the reigning champion, but Willard was definitely one of the weaker heavyweight champions even in his prime.

[SnakeFist7]

Joe Calzaghe vs fellow ATG Jeff "Left Hook" Lacy.

[SgrRyLeonard]

Louis-Schmelling II
Fitzsimmons-Corbett

[asero]

Louis-Schmelling II
Fitzsimmons-Corbett


agree agree agree...imagine if louis was not able to KO schmelling

[flamengo]

I don't mean to provoke, but the more I think about it, Douglas's win over Tyson stand out. People can say what they will about Tyson's state of mind, but the fact is Douglas was 42-1 underdog and he THOROUGLY DOMINATED Tyson, who was rightly seen as invicible at the time. When has something like that ever been done before or after?

Schmelings win over Louis, even in a non-title bout, must be well on par with any upset..

Max had the vision, and belief in himself to administer, often, the right over Louis's jab. Considering Louis had already beaten Carnera and Baer.. without a drama, Schmeling deserves a high level of 'scientific' respect.. due to having a legitimate game plan. A very early example of a game plan, that successfully accounted for the most superior H/W in the first half of last century.

[janitor]

Eh? :huh

Sorry.

I mean Joe Lynch.

You have a flyweight beating a possible top 10 all time bantemweight.

Not bad.

[Bokaj]

Schmelings win over Louis, even in a non-title bout, must be well on par with any upset..

Not in that bracket, probably more on par with Clay-Liston. In a way, among all this loose talk of Tyson being this and that coming in to the fight, it has been forgotten just how huge a win it was.

Coming in to the fight Tyson had a 1 rd KO of Williams, 5 rd KO of Bruno, 2 rd KO of Tubbs, 1 rd KO over Spinks (undefeated coming in) and a 4 rd KO over Holmes, who'd neven been KO'd before.

This was 5 matches in a 2 year period prior to Douglas, and the only one who even remotely troubled him was Bruno. This is as a good a string of dominant victories as you'll see in boxing history, possibly THE best, and then he literally gets the shit beat out of him by a journeyman, whose best effort before was nearly beating Tucker.

I'll put this up as my nr. 1.

[Boilermaker]

Has Frazier over Ali been overlooked thus far?

Joe Choynski over Jack Johnson is a good result.

Holyfield over Tyson I was a good win.

Braddock's win over Baer might get a mention.

Duran over Leonard was huge.

Tyson v Spinks was extremely big, particularly if you consider the manner of the victory.

Though i must admit, a top 10 is a difficult task and there a win will need to be better than just a huge win to make that list.

[GPater11093]

jack johnson vs Tommy burns

[GPater11093]

what about RJJ vs ruiz

[GPater11093]

heres the shortlist we should start narrowing it down

DURAN v LEONARD I
- GREB v TUNNEY I
- LANGFORD's win over WILLS
- FRAZIER v ALI I
ALI v FOREMAN
- DOUGLAS v TYSON
- ARMSTRONG v ROSS
- ROBINSON v GAVILAN II
- LEONARD v HAGLER
- HARADA v JOFRE I or II
- FITZSIMMONS v CORBETT
- CHARLES v MOORE I or III
- BURLEY v MOORE
- LAMOTTA v ROBINSON I
- ALI v LISTON I
Jimmy Wildes win over Joe Lynch

Max Schmelings win over Joe Louis

Barbados Joe Walcotts win over Joe Choynski

Jem Driscolls win over Abe Attel

Mike Gibbons win over Jack Dillon

Terry McGoverns win over Joe Gans
Terry mcgover vs pedlar palmer

Leonard-Hearns 1
Napoles-Griffith
Jones Jr - Toney/Hopkins
BHOPs-Tito (Tito was P4P no1)
Tunney-Dempsey 1
Barrera-Morales 1 (which Barrera really won by a landslide)
Pacquaio-Barrera 1 (domination over a top3 P4Per and legend)
Pacquaio-Delahoya (amazing weight hopping and what if DLH isnt shot?)
Foreman-Frazier
Liston-Patterson
Tyson-Spinks
Patterson-Moore
Benn-McCellan
Eubanks-Benn1
Eubanks-Watson2
Hagler-Hearns
Hamed-Kelly
Charles second PTS win over Burley
Sandy Saddler-Willie Pep 1
Sandy Saddler-Willie Pep 2
Jim Driscoll over Abe Atell
Dick Tiger vs Jose Torres
Foreman vs Moorer
hopkins vs pavlik
Fitzsimmons-Corbett
Spinks-Holmes I
Jofre-Legra
Zivic-Armstrong I
Ali-Liston I
Harada-Jofre I
Holyfield-Tyson I
Dempsey-Willard
Tunney-Dempsey I
Randall-Chavez I
Pacquiao-DeLaHoya
Tarver-Jones II
Leonard-Hearns I
Hearns-Hill
demsey vs willard
johnson vs Jeffries
Louis-Schmelling II
Fitzsimmons-Corbett
Schmelings win over Louis
Joe Choynski over Jack Johnson is a good result.

Holyfield over Tyson I was a good win.

Braddock's win over Baer
jack johnson vs Tommy burns
what about RJJ vs ruiz

[BremnerBomber]

What about Randy Turpins win over Sugar Ray Robinson ?????

[asero]

braddock claim to fame, he was heavy underdog in the baer fight...baer took him lightly and he pays for it..

tommy burns is like foreman...had he been in different era, he could have accomplish more

RJJ and Ruiz is a joke..who one is going for the KO

[asero]

PBF win over Hatton...atleast PBF proves that he can KO his opponents after his 130 career

[Bokaj]

What about Randy Turpins win over Sugar Ray Robinson ?????

Yeah, that should definitely be mentioned.

I mean, Frazier's win over Ali and Duran's over Leonard are great, but they were by no means considered mission impossibles at the time. Two great champions came out on top against two other great champions.

But for me, the quintessence of a great win is an absolutely no-hoper coming out and winning clearly over someone considered to be invincible.

[Bokaj]

This is my definition of a great win, by the way (just as to avoid confusion):

1. Overcoming adversity

2. Doing it in style

[asero]

corrales win stands out...

[My2Sense]

heres the shortlist we should start narrowing it down

DURAN v LEONARD I
- GREB v TUNNEY I
- LANGFORD's win over WILLS
- FRAZIER v ALI I
ALI v FOREMAN
- DOUGLAS v TYSON
- ARMSTRONG v ROSS
- ROBINSON v GAVILAN II
- LEONARD v HAGLER
- HARADA v JOFRE I or II
- FITZSIMMONS v CORBETT
- CHARLES v MOORE I or III
- BURLEY v MOORE
- LAMOTTA v ROBINSON I
- ALI v LISTON I
Jimmy Wildes win over Joe Lynch

Max Schmelings win over Joe Louis

Barbados Joe Walcotts win over Joe Choynski

Jem Driscolls win over Abe Attel

Mike Gibbons win over Jack Dillon

Terry McGoverns win over Joe Gans
Terry mcgover vs pedlar palmer

Leonard-Hearns 1
Napoles-Griffith
Jones Jr - Toney/Hopkins
BHOPs-Tito (Tito was P4P no1)
Tunney-Dempsey 1
Barrera-Morales 1 (which Barrera really won by a landslide)
Pacquaio-Barrera 1 (domination over a top3 P4Per and legend)
Pacquaio-Delahoya (amazing weight hopping and what if DLH isnt shot?)
Foreman-Frazier
Liston-Patterson
Tyson-Spinks
Patterson-Moore
Benn-McCellan
Eubanks-Benn1
Eubanks-Watson2
Hagler-Hearns
Hamed-Kelly
Charles second PTS win over Burley
Sandy Saddler-Willie Pep 1
Sandy Saddler-Willie Pep 2
Jim Driscoll over Abe Atell
Dick Tiger vs Jose Torres
Foreman vs Moorer
hopkins vs pavlik
Fitzsimmons-Corbett
Spinks-Holmes I
Jofre-Legra
Zivic-Armstrong I
Ali-Liston I
Harada-Jofre I
Holyfield-Tyson I
Dempsey-Willard
Tunney-Dempsey I
Randall-Chavez I
Pacquiao-DeLaHoya
Tarver-Jones II
Leonard-Hearns I
Hearns-Hill
demsey vs willard
johnson vs Jeffries
Louis-Schmelling II
Fitzsimmons-Corbett
Schmelings win over Louis
Joe Choynski over Jack Johnson is a good result.

Holyfield over Tyson I was a good win.

Braddock's win over Baer
jack johnson vs Tommy burns
what about RJJ vs ruiz

A few more candidates for this list:

Benitez-Cervantes
Duran-Barkley (surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet)
Singer-Mandell
Canzoneri-Singer
Canzoneri-Berg II
McLarnin-Corbett
Berg-Chocolate I


Anyway, out of all the fights that have been mentioned so far, here's my top picks (in no particular order):

Foreman-Frazier I
Armstrong-Ross
Fitzsimmons-Corbett
Duran-Leonard I
Duran-Barkley
Saddler-Pep I
Spinks-Holmes I
Ali-Foreman
Leonard-Hagler
Douglas-Tyson

I know Ali-Frazier I should probably be on here, but somehow I just can't bring myself to give up one of these fights here... :patsch

[GPater11093]

foreman ali 1
armstrong ross
fitzimmons corbett
duran leonard 1
pep saddler 2
saddler pep 1
louis schmeling 1
louis schmeling 2
greb tunney 1
burley moore

[flamengo]

jack johnson vs Tommy burns


Hmmm.... not sure this was an upset??? Quite a foregone conclusion. I doubt any punters would have backed Burns.

Many may have been upset, but the end result could hardly be questioned prior to the bout.

[SteveO]

what about RJJ vs ruiz

Only issue is that no one ranks Ruiz with any value.

If Jones could have moved up to HW and beaten Lennox Lewis, that would have been quite a treat.

[asero]

^^^such a calculated risk..

which you do more for jones greatness...his win over ruiz and get beaten by tarver and johnson or had he stayed in lightheavy and retire without a clear loss?

i say his HW title boost his all-time rankings..had he not moved up i do not think people with give him respect that he deserved

[My2Sense]

Hmmm.... not sure this was an upset??? Quite a foregone conclusion. I doubt any punters would have backed Burns.

Many may have been upset, but the end result could hardly be questioned prior to the bout.

Burns was a 3-1 favorite and a respected champion with 8 straight defenses by KO (a record that still stands).

[Calroid]

Burns was a 3-1 favorite and a respected champion with 8 straight defenses by KO (a record that still stands).

Holmes also shares that record.

[thesham01]

PBF win over Hatton...atleast PBF proves that he can KO his opponents after his 130 career

you are clueless....

[Russell]

Barbados Joe Walcotts win over Joe Choynski



What was so great about this win?

[My2Sense]

What was so great about this win?

A welterweight crushing a respected HW contender.

[Russell]

A welterweight crushing a respected HW contender.

Well, as Janitor says Choynski wore the cuffs almost constantly and had a very, very weak chin...

Choynski was a heavyweight slayer because of his power, not size. He was a MW himself.

[Jaws]

No he wasn't 'technically counted out', the count is the refs count, not a 10second count, if it takes the ref 30seconds to count to 10 then thats the right count, end of discusion

Yep. You go by how the ref counts. It's never an honest to goodness stop-watch ten seconds. Questioning the count was pure bullshit by Don King.

Anyway, I think the Tyson/Douglas fight is clearly eliminated from this list, based on the criteria given: "the criteria for a BEST WIN is QUALITY OF OPPONENT and QUALITY OF PERFORMANCE - this thread is NOT NOT NOT asking for the TOP TEN WINS WITH REGARD TO HISTORIC STANDING/SOCIAL IMPACT/CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE etc etc, it's about the quality of the win as an in-ring feat of boxing only!!!!!"

Douglas was not a high quality opponent, and Tyson gave a horrible performance from round one. Furthermore, had Douglas went on to actually accomplish something, it would be another story, but his performance was a fluke one-time thing from him.

It's one of the greatest upsets in all of sports history, and has a lot of historical and social significance, but those are traits specifically listed as not to be considered.

A truly great fight needs both opponents giving excellent performances.

[SuzieQ49]

Why does everyone keep mentioning Burley-Moore. Burley beat a green Moore who would later develop into a bigger better fighter. I think other guys beat better versions of moore, more decisevly.

[Senya13]

Jim Driscoll over Abe Atell.........complete shut out and a disgrace that he never got given the belt afterwards. From what I've read his jab that night was perfection.
Some (although a minority, such as Charley White, the referee, expressing his private opinion, or Bat Masterson, etc) thought Attell was better, based on landing harder punches. Sounds like Barrera-Morales I, Morales landing by far more punches, but people giving it to Barrera for landing harder punches.

[Flea Man]

I haven't read any of this thread, but Ali over Foreman (not just historical significance, but where Ali and Foreman were respectively at that time) must be one of the top wins.

[Russell]

Why does everyone keep mentioning Burley-Moore. Burley beat a green Moore who would later develop into a bigger better fighter. I think other guys beat better versions of moore, more decisevly.

Moore said his entire life that Burley was the best fighter he ever saw. I doubt he meant that in a way where he himself felt he'd ever beat Charley.

[DINAMITA]

If Marquez beats Mayweather.......

[thesham01]

If Marquez beats Mayweather.......

i hope this plays out....

[SuzieQ49]

I doubt he meant that in a way where he himself felt he'd ever beat Charley.


Your telling me you think Charley Burley would beat a fully mature Early 1950's 175lb version of archie moore with burley weighin 160lb? Not a chance in hell. Moore would knock him out in less than 5.

[fists of fury]

I don't mean to provoke, but the more I think about it, Douglas's win over Tyson stand out. People can say what they will about Tyson's state of mind, but the fact is Douglas was 42-1 underdog and he THOROUGLY DOMINATED Tyson, who was rightly seen as invicible at the time. When has something like that ever been done before or after?

No doubt in my mind whatsoever this belongs in the top 10.

[fists of fury]

Douglas was not a high quality opponent, and Tyson gave a horrible performance from round one. Furthermore, had Douglas went on to actually accomplish something, it would be another story, but his performance was a fluke one-time thing from him.



Douglas in general was not a high quality opponent, but that night he fought a brilliant fight.
Tyson's performance wasn't horrible. It was sub-par, but it wasn't horrible. I still think he'd have knocked most people out that night, but Douglas wasn't having that. It only looked horrible because Douglas was using Tyson's head for target practice in the latter rounds.
Lastly, why was it a fluke?
Did Tyson injure himself on the way to the ring? Did Douglas blindside him when Tyson wasn't looking?
No.
He stuck that jab in Tyson's face all night long, pasted him repeatedly with right hands and almost knocked his block off with a terrific uppercut followed by four good punches when Tyson was going down.

If this fight doesn't qualify, then I don't know...

[raiderjay]

I don't mean to provoke, but the more I think about it, Douglas's win over Tyson stand out. People can say what they will about Tyson's state of mind, but the fact is Douglas was 42-1 underdog and he THOROUGLY DOMINATED Tyson, who was rightly seen as invicible at the time. When has something like that ever been done before or after?


Couldn't agree more. Saying that Tyson wasn't "himself" is the same difference as saying Hagler had a bad lunch before the Leonard fight or that Schmelling was messed up because of the Nazi propaganda that he didn't support.

A remarkable win is just that. The side notes are just those SIDE NOTES!

[PetethePrince]

Great topic. I think we have to define the criteria we want to use to decide what the 10 best wins in history are. Whether a fighter is in his prime or good mental/physical condition, or if it's a big upset or a legendary performance in a classic fight between two legends. Those so much to work with and we'll have to come up with a lot of nominations and try voting on it (If this has been done I look dumb since i haven't read through the entire thread).

*Edit* Seems like this is the basic list so far. Don't understand why people won't to eliminate Tyson vs Douglas. Douglas is fighting one of the most feared and gifted Heavyweights of all time. Although Tyson wasn't at his best mostly mentally, Douglas fought a near perfect fight. We're talking about the best 10 wins in history not the 10 best fights in history, there's a difference. Whether Douglas is a low quality fighter only enhances the win not degrades it. I'm not sure if the fight will make the top 10 cut but it certainly shouldn't be omitted so quickly... that's for sure.


DURAN v LEONARD I
- GREB v TUNNEY I
- LANGFORD's win over WILLS
- FRAZIER v ALI I
ALI v FOREMAN
- DOUGLAS v TYSON
- ARMSTRONG v ROSS
- ROBINSON v GAVILAN II
- LEONARD v HAGLER
- HARADA v JOFRE I or II
- FITZSIMMONS v CORBETT
- CHARLES v MOORE I or III
- BURLEY v MOORE
- LAMOTTA v ROBINSON I
- ALI v LISTON I
Jimmy Wildes win over Joe Lynch

Max Schmelings win over Joe Louis

Barbados Joe Walcotts win over Joe Choynski

Jem Driscolls win over Abe Attel

Mike Gibbons win over Jack Dillon

Terry McGoverns win over Joe Gans
Terry mcgover vs pedlar palmer

Leonard-Hearns 1
Napoles-Griffith
Jones Jr - Toney/Hopkins
BHOPs-Tito (Tito was P4P no1)
Tunney-Dempsey 1
Barrera-Morales 1 (which Barrera really won by a landslide)
Pacquaio-Barrera 1 (domination over a top3 P4Per and legend)
Pacquaio-Delahoya (amazing weight hopping and what if DLH isnt shot?)
Foreman-Frazier
Liston-Patterson
Tyson-Spinks
Patterson-Moore
Benn-McCellan
Eubanks-Benn1
Eubanks-Watson2
Hagler-Hearns
Hamed-Kelly
Charles second PTS win over Burley
Sandy Saddler-Willie Pep 1
Sandy Saddler-Willie Pep 2
Jim Driscoll over Abe Atell
Dick Tiger vs Jose Torres
Foreman vs Moorer
hopkins vs pavlik
Fitzsimmons-Corbett
Spinks-Holmes I
Jofre-Legra
Zivic-Armstrong I
Ali-Liston I
Harada-Jofre I
Holyfield-Tyson I
Dempsey-Willard
Tunney-Dempsey I
Randall-Chavez I
Pacquiao-DeLaHoya
Tarver-Jones II
Leonard-Hearns I
Hearns-Hill
demsey vs willard
johnson vs Jeffries
Louis-Schmelling II
Fitzsimmons-Corbett
Schmelings win over Louis
Joe Choynski over Jack Johnson is a good result.

Holyfield over Tyson I was a good win.

Braddock's win over Baer
jack johnson vs Tommy burns
what about RJJ vs ruiz

We should decide to cut a few from the list and I then try voting on the 10 best through a poll or this same thread.

I still think we need to establish a solid criteria. To me, the best win deals with an excellent performance against an incredible fighter. We should bear in mind the prime and performance of that great fighter as well as the opposing fighter, but if the win comes from a fighter that isn't as good that doesn't diminish the significance of how great of a win it is, if anything it enhances it. This ain't the top 10 best fights of all time it's wins. I have a quesiton though... does how the fight end play any matter in this thread? If a fight between two legends end quickly does that tarnish the win? Example would be Hagler v Hearns. I would say it shouldn't although that leans that the other fighter had problems, exposed himself, and didn't fight the right gameplay... or that fighter just got completely overwhelmed. If that's the case then it isn't such a terrific win, but let's not play revisionist history here. That's a dangerous deed to do.

*Edit* Another thought, how much does historical significance play into this? If a fighter is thought to do better but the fight becomes a contested battle does that hinder the win? Does Ali v Frazier I become a better more important win since the opinions were split than Ali v Frazier III?

[Bill Butcher]

I'd like this to be a decent debate/discussion, so I'm not going to bother posting a list because all that happens in that instance is that people focus on disagreeing with it rather than putting forward their own suggestions (plus a best win list is a very very subjective and difficult thing to do IMO and I don't have time to think it through thoroughly on my own, I'm bored at work just now and think this could be a very interesting thread!).

However, there are a couple of wins which spring to mind immediately for this list and which I will propose now for definite inclusion:

- DURAN v LEONARD I
- GREB v TUNNEY I
- LANGFORD's win over WILLS
- FRAZIER v ALI I


And there are others I will put up for consideration as they are wins that I believe are legitimate contenders:

- ALI v FOREMAN
- DOUGLAS v TYSON
- ARMSTRONG v ROSS
- ROBINSON v GAVILAN II
- LEONARD v HAGLER
- HARADA v JOFRE I or II
- FITZSIMMONS v CORBETT
- CHARLES v MOORE I or III
- BURLEY v MOORE
- LAMOTTA v ROBINSON I
- ALI v LISTON I


Let's make a Classic Forum Top Ten Wins Of All-Time!

All opinions/comments welcome!

:bbb



PS: This is a thread about BEST WINS, and the criteria for a BEST WIN is QUALITY OF OPPONENT and QUALITY OF PERFORMANCE - this thread is NOT NOT NOT asking for the TOP TEN WINS WITH REGARD TO HISTORIC STANDING/SOCIAL IMPACT/CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE etc etc, it's about the quality of the win as an in-ring feat of boxing only!!!!!

I think you`ve just mentioned all the best ones, tho from your top 4, Id swap Frazier/Ali (since its not about historical significance & opinions were split as to who might win) for Ali/Liston, Ali/Foreman or Leonard/Hagler.
Much more people expected Joe to beat Ali than SRL or Ali to beat Hagler, Liston or Foreman.
Ali had only 2 fights in 3 n a half yrs going in vs Frazier.... Leonard had 1 fight in 5 n a half yrs & had not fought in 3 yrs going in vs the marvelous one.

:good

[Jaws]

Douglas in general was not a high quality opponent, but that night he fought a brilliant fight.
Tyson's performance wasn't horrible. It was sub-par, but it wasn't horrible. I still think he'd have knocked most people out that night, but Douglas wasn't having that. It only looked horrible because Douglas was using Tyson's head for target practice in the latter rounds.
Lastly, why was it a fluke?
Did Tyson injure himself on the way to the ring? Did Douglas blindside him when Tyson wasn't looking?
No.
He stuck that jab in Tyson's face all night long, pasted him repeatedly with right hands and almost knocked his block off with a terrific uppercut followed by four good punches when Tyson was going down.

If this fight doesn't qualify, then I don't know...

I mean fluke in that it was a one time performance from Douglas. Douglas didn't go on to accomplish anything with this win. He went back to his old ways. Had he turned a true corner in his career, it would give the fight more credence. Without that, it is nothing but a colossal upset. I don't disagree that it is one of the most significant, unbelievable fights of all time, but based on the criteria given, I don't think the original poster was looking for upset-type wins. That's all I'm trying to say here.

I also DO feel that Tyson gave a no-doubt-about-it poor performance. He came out flat from round one. He didn't even launch into his usual early fury. He even looked bored during his introduction, not doing his usual impatient walking around. Nothing Douglas did caused any of this. So am I really being that unreasonable by feeling that a truly great fight has both boxers giving good performances?

I'll also add that when people hold this fight in such high regard it is actually an indirect compliment to Tyson as well.

[fists of fury]

So am I really being that unreasonable by feeling that a truly great fight has both boxers giving good performances?

I'll also add that when people hold this fight in such high regard it is actually an indirect compliment to Tyson as well.

Short answers:

To the first paragraph - no, not at all.
To the second paragraph - yes it is.

Anyway, we're risking hijacking this thread a little, so I'll say no more on this fight.