Lloyd Honeyghan v Donald Curry

[Unforgiven]

It's a shame this is one of those performances where the winner still doesn't get the credit he deserves.

The Curry camp were quick to pull out the "weight drained" excuse and that's been attached to the fight ever since.

Truth is, Honeyghan had a perfect style to beat Curry and he fought his best fight ever. Honeyghan was A LOT better than ever given credit for, even by the British media nevermind the Americans.

I've watched a lot of Don Curry fights and he was a great fighter but he fought in a very economical and sometimes slow-paced style. He was hittable too. Honeyghan simply outworked him and displayed great movement and terrific handspeed and accuracy. Honeyghan never gave Curry a moment's rest.

[Flea Man]

Good analysis. People always say 'Curry was weight drained' but look at him once he moved up to JMW. Still hittable, a little more comfortable, but ended up suffering just as crushing a defeat against Mike McCallum.

The sad thing is that Honeyghan turned all-out aggressive after this fight, and it cost him in later fights, when he wasn't in great shape. He believed his own hype.

No doub it was a fantastic victory, probably the best ever by a British fighter, and Honeyghan deserves to be in the top 10 (in my list 7) British fighters of all time. Not just on the back of this victory, he defended his titles a couple of times too!

[Unforgiven]

Good analysis. People always say 'Curry was weight drained' but look at him once he moved up to JMW. Still hittable, a little more comfortable, but ended up suffering just as crushing a defeat against Mike McCallum.

The sad thing is that Honeyghan turned all-out aggressive after this fight, and it cost him in later fights, when he wasn't in great shape. He believed his own hype.

No doub it was a fantastic victory, probably the best ever by a British fighter, and Honeyghan deserves to be in the top 10 (in my list 7) British fighters of all time. Not just on the back of this victory, he defended his titles a couple of times too!

Yeah, I just dont accept "weight drained" as an excuse. Curry was beating guys like Colin Jones and Milton McCrory and building his reputation at welterweight while working hard to get to 147 pounds. The difference was that Honeyghan brought a different style and was not intimidated in the least. Those other guys just didn't have the style or ability to fully exploit the chances Curry gave them.

True that Honeyghan turned a bit gung-ho after this fight, and his defense eroded, and I know he had hand injuries, but as you say he made a few defences. Maurice Blocker was a very good fighter. Honeyghan was robbed with that Technical Decision loss to Jorge Vaca but scored a crushing win in the rematch. I make NO EXCUSES for his defeat to Marlon Starling - the "magic man" fought a hell of a fight. But everyone could see he was shot in the Breland debacle.

Not only was Honeyghan one of the greatest British fighters ever, but that whole era of world welterweights (Curry, Starling, Honeyghan, Blocker, Brown etc.) are somewhat overlooked.

[young griffo]

Good analysis. People always say 'Curry was weight drained' but look at him once he moved up to JMW. Still hittable, a little more comfortable, but ended up suffering just as crushing a defeat against Mike McCallum.

The sad thing is that Honeyghan turned all-out aggressive after this fight, and it cost him in later fights, when he wasn't in great shape. He believed his own hype.

No doub it was a fantastic victory, probably the best ever by a British fighter, and Honeyghan deserves to be in the top 10 (in my list 7) British fighters of all time. Not just on the back of this victory, he defended his titles a couple of times too!
It was a good win no doubt but having recently watched Honeyghan's arse whipping by the decent but not brilliant Mark Breland(not to mention his losses to Starling and Pazienza),no way known Lloyd deserves a top 10 all time rating,especially when you consider some of the quality fighters Britain has produced over the years.

Honeyghan caught a very good but flawed fighter in Curry on the perfect night for him but by any reasonable criteria he didn't do anywhere near enough to warrant such a high ranking amongst the best ever Brit fighters.

Also Curry performed much better against McCallum (leading on all scorecards until getting caught from memory) than he ever did against Honeyghan,which gives some credence to the "Curry was weight drained" argument.

[Unforgiven]

It was a good win no doubt but having recently watched Honeyghan's arse whipping by the decent but not brilliant Mark Breland(not to mention his losses to Starling and Pazienza),no way known Lloyd deserves a top 10 all time rating,especially when you consider some of the quality fighters Britain has produced over the years.

Honeyghan was shot when he faced Breland. And Pazienza.

Name just 10 British fighters who easily rank above Honeyghan all-time.

[MRBILL]

Donald Curry in his prime was light years better than Lloyd Honeyghan............. By '86, Curry was a limp dick at 147 pounds..... However, his team wanted to keep milking the merry-go-round for the money.... Christ, Curry looked great at kayoing Eduardo Rodriguez earlier in 1986 and Lloyd Honeyghan was considered no real threat..... Well, eventually the shit will catch up to a guy / fighter...... By the time the fall of '86 rolled around, Donald Curry had stayed down at 147 too long........ Had team Curry been smart and not so greedy, they would've had Curry move up to 154 at the end of 1985 following his KO over Milton McCrory.... 1986 was the year that basically ruined Donald Curry the fighter...... After that loss to Lloyd Honeyghan, Curry never really ever was the same fighter...... The 1987 KO loss to Mike McCallum was wicked and the '89 loss to Rene Jacquot was horrid....... Those losses were so profiled on Curry's resume / legacy NOBODY even gives a damn or remembers that he beat Giafranco Rosi for the 154 lb. title in 1988...... It was a nothing win..... The final nails that shut the lid on Donald Curry's career were his 1990 / '91 losses to Michael Nunn and Terry Norris..... What happened afterward is all nondescript...... However, bottom line, Donald Curry was a better fighter than Lloyd Honeyghan ever was....... Cheerio.......

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

Lloyd Honeyghan looked like a rank amateur in his 1989 title loss to Marlon Starling.... And Mark Breland looked like Superman against Honeyghan in their stink fight...... YES! By 1993, Honeyghan was a lamb for the slaughter against Vinny Paz...... Cheerio.....

MR.BILL

[JohnThomas1]

Credit to Lloyd but blind Freddy could see Curry wasn't himself.

[Mantequilla]

You only had to look at Curry to see was very weight drained.He had the same drawn dead man look that Ayub Kalule had against Davey Moore and McCallum.Only difference is curry didn't try to make a supreme effort and go out on his shield.

Honeyghan did have the style to give Curry a decent fight at any time though.

[Longhhorn71]

Credit to Lloyd but blind Freddy could see Curry wasn't himself.

Curry was having a serious management struggle when he fought Lloyd.

It is the responsibility of the fighter to show up in tip-top mental & physical condtions.

Lloyd won.

[Unforgiven]

Credit to Lloyd but blind Freddy could see Curry wasn't himself.

What was he doing different ?
People say "he wasn't getting his punches off" but that's bullshit if you watch his fights with McCrory and Jones he just doesn't throw many, and picks his shots superbly but DOES leave gaps. Honeyghan fought an aggressive fight with superb handspeed and accuracy and was a constantly moving slippery target.
Blind Freddy should be able to see that Honeyghan simply fought a GREAT fight, but Freddy is obviously blinded by the American hype machine.
Maybe Curry WAS a great fighter, but Honeyghan was a GREATER fighter on that night.

[Unforgiven]

Donald Curry in his prime was light years better than Lloyd Honeyghan............. By '86, Curry was a limp dick at 147 pounds..... However, his team wanted to keep milking the merry-go-round for the money.... Christ, Curry looked great at kayoing Eduardo Rodriguez earlier in 1986 and Lloyd Honeyghan was considered no real threat..... Well, eventually the shit will catch up to a guy / fighter...... By the time the fall of '86 rolled around, Donald Curry had stayed down at 147 too long........ Had team Curry been smart and not so greedy, they would've had Curry move up to 154 at the end of 1985 following his KO over Milton McCrory.... 1986 was the year that basically ruined Donald Curry the fighter...... After that loss to Lloyd Honeyghan, Curry never really ever was the same fighter...... The 1987 KO loss to Mike McCallum was wicked and the '89 loss to Rene Jacquot was horrid....... Those losses were so profiled on Curry's resume / legacy NOBODY even gives a damn or remembers that he beat Giafranco Rosi for the 154 lb. title in 1988...... It was a nothing win..... The final nails that shut the lid on Donald Curry's career were his 1990 / '91 losses to Michael Nunn and Terry Norris..... What happened afterward is all nondescript...... However, bottom line, Donald Curry was a better fighter than Lloyd Honeyghan ever was....... Cheerio.......

MR.BILL

Bullshit.

That's all excuse making.

[Unforgiven]

Lloyd Honeyghan looked like a rank amateur in his 1989 title loss to Marlon Starling....

Lloyd Honeyghan entered the ring against Starling as a champion so I make NO EXCUSES for his performance in that fight. Starling was a heck of a fighter, and fought a great fight.

The same goes for Honeyghan v Curry.
Weight-drained is a bullshit excuse, any objective fan can see Honeyghan for a GREAT FIGHT with no regard for Curry's reputation.

It's funny how weight-drained becomes a comprehensive excuse when Curry LOSES, but he beat all those other guys at 147 and built his reputation there. Excuses like that are just cheap and pathetic.

[redrooster]

I like the way Lloyd took the fight to him. He took command of the fight, caught Donald off guard and pressed him throughout, never giving him a chance to think or rest. I love these kind of fighters.

Lloyd outlanded him, outworked him on the inside and generally bullied him. It was like watching a man beating on a boy. A skilled boy, but just a boy.


Powerful hitters like Lloyd, Jackson, Marciano, and Cuevas could do this and come out on top. They know that a boxers skills are of little use once they have been broken down.

Donald had never faced another man as powerful as prime Lloyd. Certainly, this was no Marlon Starling.

By the second round, Donald was smarting from those head shots and temporarily lost control of his legs. That's when I knew the fight belonged to Lloyd.

The butt didnt matter anyways. I think Don was lucky the butt happened because if the bout would have gone on much longer he would have gotten seriously hurt

[MRBILL]

Well, I was NEVER a big fan of Curry, so I'm not giving him any extra credit for anything.... However, he was shot from the opening bell on that night in 1986 when he fought Lloyd Honeyghan at 147 pounds....... Christ, it is a known fact that Curry had been struggling with 147 pounds as early as 1983..... Donald Curry ruined himself by straining to make weight for too long.... It had an adverse effect on his body / system..... By 1987, moving up to 154 was honestly too late..... Curry had eroded greatly by the time he got KO'd by Mike McCallum......

Llyod Honeyghan didn't last long either at 147 pounds...... Hell, he first blew his title to Jorge Vaca in around 1988, but he won it back in a rematch..... But by early 1989, Honeyghan was brutally hammered by Marlon Starling on HBO, and that was basically the ending for Honeyghan..... Lloyd Honeyghan never amounted to jack shit in the '90s... Lloyd Honeyghan was only like 31 or 32 yrs old when he was wasted by Vinnie Paz, but he fought like he was 50........ Cheerio.....

MR.BILL

[young griffo]

Honeyghan was shot when he faced Breland. And Pazienza.

Name just 10 British fighters who easily rank above Honeyghan all-time.
Wilde,Calzaghe,Lennox Lewis,Benn,Lynch,Buchanan,Hamed,Hatton,Driscoll,Berg,Ted Lewis,Fitzsimmons,Eubank....and that's just off the top of my head,there's probably even more if I put some serious thought to it.

Guy's like Herol Graham and Michael Watson were probably better fighters as well even though they never won world titles.

You're obviously a big Honeyghan fan but I don't rate him all that highly even though at his best he was a top line fighter.

[riggers]

I am glad you said 'probably' with Graham and Watson, because no way were they better. LLoyd accomplished as much as either of them without winning the world title.

Hatton ? Driscoll based on what exactly. Buchanan why ?

Lloyds peak was short but during it he was a force of nature.

[Mantequilla]

I'll take all of those fighters other than Hatton over Honeyghan.

Honeyghan was very good only for a short while.His form deteriorated rapidly after blowing out overmatched washed up 140lbers and even against Blocker he didn't really impress sa much as he should.

[JohnThomas1]

What was he doing different ?
People say "he wasn't getting his punches off" but that's bullshit if you watch his fights with McCrory and Jones he just doesn't throw many, and picks his shots superbly but DOES leave gaps. Honeyghan fought an aggressive fight with superb handspeed and accuracy and was a constantly moving slippery target.
Blind Freddy should be able to see that Honeyghan simply fought a GREAT fight, but Freddy is obviously blinded by the American hype machine.
Maybe Curry WAS a great fighter, but Honeyghan was a GREATER fighter on that night.

Nobody said Lloyd didn't fight a great fight. If you can't see the difference in the previous standard Curry both form and physical appearance wise to this one besides Honeyghan's excellent aggression then we'll have to stand to disagree. Blind Freddy isn't American and sure doesn't board their hype machine.

[My2Sense]

Curry was overrated.

[My2Sense]

It's a shame this is one of those performances where the winner still doesn't get the credit he deserves.

The Curry camp were quick to pull out the "weight drained" excuse and that's been attached to the fight ever since.

Truth is, Honeyghan had a perfect style to beat Curry and he fought his best fight ever. Honeyghan was A LOT better than ever given credit for, even by the British media nevermind the Americans.

I've watched a lot of Don Curry fights and he was a great fighter but he fought in a very economical and sometimes slow-paced style. He was hittable too. Honeyghan simply outworked him and displayed great movement and terrific handspeed and accuracy. Honeyghan never gave Curry a moment's rest.

I always found it very unfair and even a little disgraceful, that certain fighters get free passes for the kinds of losses that other fighters get ripped a new asshole for. Curry is one of those fighters.

A month or so ago, I raised this point and said that if Margarito was to get embarrassed by Mosley the way Curry was by Honeygan, he would get ripped a new asshole by the entire forum; no one would be saying the fight "doesn't count" because he was "weight drained" (there was rumors at that time of Margo struggling to make weight). Sure enough, I was right. Same goes for Pavlik when he lost to Hopkins. But someone like Curry loses in a big upset, and people act like the fight never happened.

He also gets off the hook for staying on his stool, and basically making a half-hearted effort in general. Another fighter would get criticized for a lack of heart and determination - but again, Curry gets off the hook.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to why certain fighters get flack up the ass, and others get off unscathed. It just seems to be whoever enough people happen to like.

Definite double standard IMO.

[Mantequilla]

And you don't like Curry that much i take it;).

Seriously though, There will always be an excuse for any fighter losing if you dig deep enough.After all we know especially from the tough schedules of bygone era's how tough it can be to be 100percent for every bout.

think this either\or mentality is just as bad as fanboy excuses shows a lack of respect for other posters, it shouldn't have any place in the classic section.all you can do is hve some common sense, glean as much background info on a fight as you can, then view it yourself and come to your own conclusion.HTere's enough info on the fight and the film itself that backs up the weightmaking excuse to an extent.Just depends how far you go with it.

Dismissing these things out of hand and you'll eventually end up with someone claiming Benny Lynch gets a free pass because he killed himself with alcoholism.Just wasn't good enough i tell ya;).After all Jose napoles drank a helluva lot for much of his reign and he didn't run himself into the ground because of it.Lynch must just have sucked.

[Unforgiven]

think this either\or mentality is just as bad as fanboy excuses shows a lack of respect for other posters, it shouldn't have any place in the classic section.all you can do is hve some common sense, glean as much background info on a fight as you can, then view it yourself and come to your own conclusion.HTere's enough info on the fight and the film itself that backs up the weightmaking excuse to an extent.Just depends how far you go with it.

The stories surrounding Don Curry making weight also apply to him in those fights he was winning and building his immense reputation on. It's only when someone came along and beat the crap out of him that his weight-making is "obviously" the reason, the pure gospel truth reason.

It's simply unfair to have a standard for one fighter that says "If he wins he gets all the credit in the world, and if he gets beaten up we put that down to weight-making" while at the same time the standard the other fighter has is "If you follow the script and lose, you aint nothing, and if you prove us all wrong and beat this guy up you still not much more than nothing".
It's TOTAL PREJUDICE, it's totally deciding the worth of each fighter regardless of what they do on the night.

You're right to say watch the fight and make up your own mind.

[riggers]

I'll take all of those fighters other than Hatton over Honeyghan.

.

Based on what exactly. You also think Watson and Graham have a better resume than Hatton ?

Hatton has Tszyu, Castillo, Mayweather and soon to be Pacquiao on his.

Honeyghan has Curry , Rosi, Blocker , Hatcher, Bumphus, Vaca, Shufford

Graham has ? Watson has ?

[My2Sense]

The stories surrounding Don Curry making weight also apply to him in those fights he was winning and building his immense reputation on. It's only when someone came along and beat the crap out of him that his weight-making is "obviously" the reason, the pure gospel truth reason.

Exactly. Curry always worked hard to make the weight, we all knew that, but there was no more talk of him being "weight drained" going into the Honeygan fight than any other; so why should it simply be assumed that it was more of a problem that it ever was, just because he didn't fulfill the expectations of him?

I wonder how many of the people that put his loss down to "weight making" were actually worried about that before the fight and fully expected him to not perform at his best?


It's simply unfair to have a standard for one fighter that says "If he wins he gets all the credit in the world, and if he gets beaten up we put that down to weight-making" while at the same time the standard the other fighter has is "If you follow the script and lose, you aint nothing, and if you prove us all wrong and beat this guy up you still not much more than nothing".
It's TOTAL PREJUDICE, it's totally deciding the worth of each fighter regardless of what they do on the night.

Agreed there too. I believe a true boxing fan should look at every fight and every fighter objectively, say no more than what he sees, not make presumptions, and most importantly not cling to whatever notions he has made of a fighter. To me, it's wrong when someone makes up his mind about what a fighter is and then basically tailors whatever he sees from then on to fit those notions, rather than accepting what comes. Unfortunately, it's very common that people do that.

[young griffo]

Honeyghan was shot when he faced Breland. And Pazienza.


Name just 10 British fighters who easily rank above Honeyghan all-time.
Hmm...so you don't buy Curry being weight drained as an excuse yet you expect us to swallow a 29 year old with two losses (one of them a tech decision) as being washed up.

Sorry you've badly exposed yourself as a Honeyghan fanboy here (as if putting someone of Lloyd's dubious credentials in your all-time British p4p top 10 wasn't enough evidence).

Such hypocritical opinions really weakens your arguments about Honeyghans true standing imo,as he really wasn't that great and Curry (for all his faults) definately looked a much better fighter at his best if we're to be honest.

That said Honeyghan deserved his win just like Breland and Pazienza deserved theirs.

[Unforgiven]

Hmm...so you don't buy Curry being weight drained as an excuse yet you expect us to swallow a 29 year old with two losses (one of them a tech decision) as being washed up.

Sorry you've badly exposed yourself as a Honeyghan fanboy here (as if putting someone of Lloyd's dubious credentials in your all-time British p4p top 10 wasn't enough evidence).

Such hypocritical opinions really weakens your arguments about Honeyghans true standing imo,as he really wasn't that great and Curry (for all his faults) definately looked a much better fighter at his best if we're to be honest.

That said Honeyghan deserved his win just like Breland and Pazienza deserved theirs.

On the contrary, I am being consistent.
I make NO EXCUSES for Honeyghan's defeat to Marlon Starling, which he entered as champion, but he took a terrible beating. ALL CREDIT TO STARLING. After such a fight it is natural to question whether a fighter will be the same again. It is also right to expect a fighter to prove himself again before expecting him to find enough form to beat another top fighter. In simple terms, the Starling defeat knocked Honeyghan many rungs down the ladder. And he did nothing between the Starling and Breland fights to prove he was entering the Breland fight as the man at welterweight.

As with Honeyghan v. Starling, with have the case of Donald Curry in 1986 entering the Honeyghan fight as champion, as the undisputed number 1 man - and p-4-p #2 at that!
He's simply at the top of his career. He's proven himself as the undisputed number one in the division, considered untouchable. He's never been beaten, he's never taken a beating before. He's proven himself against the best the division has to offer (his 2 round win over Milton McCrory was just 9 months ago). he's firmly on that top rung of the ladder.

Do you see how this differs from the case of Honeyghan fighting Breland ?

Breland beat a Honeyghan who's recent fights really didn't warrant him a high ranking. A Honeyghan who hadn't proved himself lately at all.

I haven't exposed myself as a fanboy or a hypocrite, you're probably just not used to a logical and objective approach to rating fighters. Excuse-making and bias are so endemic on this forum it's become the norm.

Honeyghan's record and accomplishments (which, btw, includes a NO EXCUSES legitimate win over Don Curry, and holding the undisputed or real championship in a traditional division - dubious credentials ?) and his performances and ability are impressive enough for him to be rated as one of the best historical Brits. You've got guys who weren't even rated at the top of their divsion in world boxing at any time rated above Lloyd. I suppose that's just oipinion, so I have no problem with that.

[young griffo]

On the contrary, I am being consistent.
I make NO EXCUSES for Honeyghan's defeat to Marlon Starling, which he entered as champion, but he took a terrible beating. ALL CREDIT TO STARLING. After such a fight it is natural to question whether a fighter will be the same again. It is also right to expect a fighter to prove himself again before expecting him to find enough form to beat another top fighter. In simple terms, the Starling defeat knocked Honeyghan many rungs down the ladder. And he did nothing between the Starling and Breland fights to prove he was entering the Breland fight as the man at welterweight.

As with Honeyghan v. Starling, with have the case of Donald Curry in 1986 entering the Honeyghan fight as champion, as the undisputed number 1 man - and p-4-p #2 at that!
He's simply at the top of his career. He's proven himself as the undisputed number one in the division, considered untouchable. He's never been beaten, he's never taken a beating before. He's proven himself against the best the division has to offer (his 2 round win over Milton McCrory was just 9 months ago). he's firmly on that top rung of the ladder.

Do you see how this differs from the case of Honeyghan fighting Breland ?

Breland beat a Honeyghan who's recent fights really didn't warrant him a high ranking. A Honeyghan who hadn't proved himself lately at all.

I haven't exposed myself as a fanboy or a hypocrite, you're probably just not used to a logical and objective approach to rating fighters. Excuse-making and bias are so endemic on this forum it's become the norm.

Honeyghan's record and accomplishments (which, btw, includes a NO EXCUSES legitimate win over Don Curry, and holding the undisputed or real championship in a traditional division - dubious credentials ?) and his performances and ability are impressive enough for him to be rated as one of the best historical Brits. You've got guys who weren't even rated at the top of their divsion in world boxing at any time rated above Lloyd. I suppose that's just oipinion, so I have no problem with that.

So what if some fighters I mentioned earlier weren't rated at the top of their division? Every weight division's quality varies from year to year, and what may be just a contender in one era could very likely be a champion in another era.

It's not like Honeyghan cleaned out a welterweight division that was anything to be in awe of.There were no Leonard,Duran or Hearn's at 147 in 1986.Hatcher,Bumphus and Shufford don't really compare do they?

You also asked what did Ken Buchanan do to rate as high as Lloyd? He beat a great in Laguana to win the undisputed lightweight title as well as stopping another (albeit old) great in Ortiz as well as beating a young but very capable Jim Watt.Also he gave one of the very best fighters of all time in Roberto Duran a very tough tussle in a losing effort.

The Duran effort alone gives Ken a higher ranking when compared to Lloyds arse whipping at the hands of the capable but not really Duranesque Marlon Starling.

[Flea Man]

I usually do my lists Post-War. Even my ATG lists I usually define from where I start at the beginning.

My top 10 British fighters list is post-war.

10. David Haye
9. Nigel Benn
8. John Conteh
7. Honeyghan
6. Hatton
5. Eubank
4.Prince Naseem Hamed
3. Joe Calzaghe
2. Ken Buchanan
1. Lennox Lewis

[GPater11093]

fleaman david haye hasnt done enough for top 10

someone asked what has watson done to be ranked over honeyghan he beat nigel benn

[Flea Man]

fleaman david haye hasnt done enough for top 10

someone asked what has watson done to be ranked over honeyghan he beat nigel benn

Pretty much unified a division, high K.O %. It was between Haye and Bruno for that spot, so be happy that it was The Hayemaker!

I honestly can't of many British boxers that have done as much as Haye post-war and who deserve to be there. Also thought about Watson.

Who would you put there man?

[riggers]

So beating a young green and reckless Nigel Benn is more significant than beating an undefeated Number 1 P4P fighter in Don Curry ?

Other than that what was Watsons best victory ? For every dangerous Don Lee there is a Gianfranco Rosi. Or a Blocker.

Watson was good but he lost all his other big fights after Benn and had none before him.

[Mantequilla]

Pretty much unified a division, high K.O %. It was between Haye and Bruno for that spot, so be happy that it was The Hayemaker!

I honestly can't of many British boxers that have done as much as Haye post-war and who deserve to be there. Also thought about Watson.

Who would you put there man?

Winstone.

[p.Townend]

The weight thing was just an excuse to try and keep Curry`s image intact.The fact is that Honeyghan had his number and fought the perfect fight.Curry looked fine in his fight prior to this.They moved him straight up a division to try and prove the weight was the problem and he came unstuck again.

[Unforgiven]

So what if some fighters I mentioned earlier weren't rated at the top of their division? Every weight division's quality varies from year to year, and what may be just a contender in one era could very likely be a champion in another era.

Yep.
And Don Curry was 1 number at welterweight and considered the pound-for-pound number 2.
He wasn't a weak champion.

As for contenders good enough to be champions, you are right - Maurice Blocker was a future champion, (he went on to beat the man who beat Honeyghan).

[riggers]

Rosi went on to be a champion too !

[Minotauro]

Good analysis. People always say 'Curry was weight drained' but look at him once he moved up to JMW. Still hittable, a little more comfortable, but ended up suffering just as crushing a defeat against Mike McCallum.

The sad thing is that Honeyghan turned all-out aggressive after this fight, and it cost him in later fights, when he wasn't in great shape. He believed his own hype.

No doub it was a fantastic victory, probably the best ever by a British fighter, and Honeyghan deserves to be in the top 10 (in my list 7) British fighters of all time. Not just on the back of this victory, he defended his titles a couple of times too!

It was a great win but the greatest in British history is maybe too much I would say Turpin's win over Robinson is the greatest. Fitz win over Corbett is probably second moved up from middleweight to stop the heavyweight champ it took a century for that to be repeated.

[Cobra33]

The weight thing was an excuse?That isn't a true statement at all.Read Mills Lane book where he says Curry was walking around at 180lbs in between bouts.All you had to do is look at Curry's face in the Honeyghan bout to see how drained he was.

[Unforgiven]

The weight thing was an excuse?That isn't a true statement at all.Read Mills Lane book where he says Curry was walking around at 180lbs in between bouts.All you had to do is look at Curry's face in the Honeyghan bout to see how drained he was.

the point is, Curry was walking around at 180 pounds and "struggling" to make weight yet at the same time he was making his reputation at 147 pounds !
Weight-making excuses are an AMATEUR'S excuse. It's no excuse.
Everyone knew Curry was struggling to make weight and he was still expected to kick the shit out of Honeyghan, just as he had beaten all those others guys while struggling.
So Honeyghan deserves all the credit, and Curry has no excuse.

[Cobra33]

Honeyghan deserves credit yes but he did not beat a Curry that was at his best(not Honeyghans fault).And lets remember that Honeyghan DECLINED a rematch latter on with Curry.

[PowerPuncher]

Wilde,Calzaghe,Lennox Lewis,Benn,Lynch,Buchanan,Hamed,Hatton,Driscoll,Berg,Ted Lewis,Fitzsimmons,Eubank....and that's just off the top of my head,there's probably even more if I put some serious thought to it.

Guy's like Herol Graham and Michael Watson were probably better fighters as well even though they never won world titles.

You're obviously a big Honeyghan fan but I don't rate him all that highly even though at his best he was a top line fighter.

Honeyghan beat the P4P no1, undisputed WW champ, arguably the best win of any Britain. And he had a good reign and regained his title.

Sorry but Hatton, Haye, Eubanks, BEnn just haven't achieved as much

[Cobra33]

They achevied more then Honeyghan has.

[PowerPuncher]

They achevied more then Honeyghan has.

How have they?

Hatton beat old Tyszu/Castillo and some fringe contenders and got taken apart by FMJ

Benn/Eubanks were exciting titlists but never true champion and never fought the best in the divisions they fought at

Haye beat an aged Mormeck, who's always been a bit chinny and an unproven domestic rival

None of these wins are on par with beating the P4P no1 undisputed WW champ in his prime (or there abouts)

[he grant]

Donald Curry was in his prime when Honeygan defeated him ..He was universially recongized as one of the very best fighters in the world and showed zero signs of slipping ...if anything he was getting better ... the Honeygan upset came out of no where ... I don't even like the way he lost, he quit on his stool ... it was a shocker and a disappointmernt ... for whatever reason Honeygan burned out fast but no one should take the Curry victory away from him ... he trashed him far and square and Curry has no excuses in my book ... in fact, Curry was never the same after that fight ...

[GPater11093]

Pretty much unified a division, high K.O %. It was between Haye and Bruno for that spot, so be happy that it was The Hayemaker!

I honestly can't of many British boxers that have done as much as Haye post-war and who deserve to be there. Also thought about Watson.

Who would you put there man?

i agree he has all those things you say he has but there are more extablished people

i see you did yours post war so that changes my british P4P abit but i will do it for post war


1. Buchanan
2. Lewis
3. Conteh
4. Calzaghe
5. Stracey
6. Honeyghan
7. Eubank
8. Benn
9. Winstone
10. Hamed

its just off teh top of my head

[My2Sense]

Read Mills Lane book where he says Curry was walking around at 180lbs in between bouts.

Like he always did (or so people always said).

All you had to do is look at Curry's face in the Honeyghan bout to see how drained he was.

Apparently nobody ever looked at Curry's face then, since pretty much everyone expected him to win easily and go on to a megafight with Hagler.

[Cobra33]

Oh please.Curry wasn't at his best for Honeyghan and thats fact.Remember Gorman saying your not yourself Donald over and over again?

I'd take Buchanan's first win over Laugna in PR in 100 degree weather where Laguna was still a damn good boxer.

[MAG1965]

It's a shame this is one of those performances where the winner still doesn't get the credit he deserves.

The Curry camp were quick to pull out the "weight drained" excuse and that's been attached to the fight ever since.

Truth is, Honeyghan had a perfect style to beat Curry and he fought his best fight ever. Honeyghan was A LOT better than ever given credit for, even by the British media nevermind the Americans.

I've watched a lot of Don Curry fights and he was a great fighter but he fought in a very economical and sometimes slow-paced style. He was hittable too. Honeyghan simply outworked him and displayed great movement and terrific handspeed and accuracy. Honeyghan never gave Curry a moment's rest.yeah that was the argument. That is why Donald Curry sued Ray Leonard. He said that Ray told him not to fight Hagler and to stay at welterweight in 1986. Then he stays there and Ray signs to fight Hagler that fall. So he felt Ray betrayed him and so he sued him. But regardless Curry had some problem with pressure guys and really he could not take a great punch as it turned out. He never had to. It is odd how he was so much greater than his brother Bruce, but Bruce was more of a warrior and probably tougher mentally.

[MAG1965]

Like he always did (or so people always said).



Apparently nobody ever looked at Curry's face then, since pretty much everyone expected him to win easily and go on to a megafight with Hagler.
I think it was a combination of the two or even three. Weight problems and the right style and Curry not being mentally up for the fight. But to be honest, those problems are problems all fighters have . The great fighters can win regardless. Curry benefitted from McCrory having weight problems when they fought in Dec. of 1985 also. So it is all fair in boxing. Everyone gave Curry credit for that fight with Milton, and Lloyd beat Donald fair and square less than a year later. The mistake Donald made was fighting McCallum. Donald might not have been ready mentally to take on Mike. Donald had two fights I remember which were both DQs when his opponents headbutted him. On memory those guys were Tony Montgomery and Carlos Santos. I think the second one was Santos. Had he maybe been able to knock out his opponents at the wieght he might have been more ready. As I remember, Mike McCallum was too strong.

[MRBILL]

WTF? Curry was on the verge of true greatness at 147 back in 1984 thru mid 1986........ Funny how things can change overnight in boxing....... Howver, Lloyd Honeyghan never proved to be such a gem...... Honey was merely good as a Welterweight champion..... Nothing more or less.......

MR.BILL

[MAG1965]

WTF? Curry was on the verge of true greatness at 147 back in 1984 thru mid 1986........ Funny how things can change overnight in boxing....... Howver, Lloyd Honeyghan never proved to be such a gem...... Honey was merely good as a Welterweight champion..... Nothing more or less.......

MR.BILL
yep I agree. After Lloyd beat Donald, his career had the ups and downs Donalds did not have as champ meaning Donald was more solid as a champ. Then Lloyd lost to Starling in a one sided beating which I was shocked with-Donald had beaten Starling years before. In Lloyds fight with Starling though Lloyd hurt Starling with a punch to the top of the head which I am not sure he knew he hurt him with. I think had Lloyd tried to swing and hit Starling on the top of the head more often, he could have hurt Marlon more than he thought he could and possibly knock him out. Well hindsight is 20/20. My point is that the Starling fight in 1989 was the real downfall of his career. Then I think Lloyd was beaten by Breland and then Pazienza and he was finished.

[AREA 53]

True, Lloyd was much better the given credit for, he had flatteded Glenfranco Rossi in 3 rounds with a big right hand, and we know what Rossi went on to acheive, so that result should have raised a warning flag for the curray camp. but what Lloyd came with was a swaggering confidence that other Curry opponents lacked, most Curry opponents looked like they were going to the gallows, Curray was seen as Fistic Royalty, And Donald and his camp felt that yet again they were turning up for yet another ceremonial beheading ! but Lloyd was intent on revolution ! True Donald was a Classy Fighter, If left Alone to compose and Execute, But Lioyd new that The Best Crystal can be easily Shattered, Donald was a Precision intrument - but start to knock it and there is a lot of sensitive things that can be thrown oit of Kilter, under that Classy Veneer Donald did not have the ruggedness to call upon as did say Leonard agaibst Duran, or Even to a lesser extend, a Simon Brown against a Tryone Trice. Donald was like a stately classic Car a Rolls Royce Silvercloud, Lloyd turned up like a Humvee - And made sure the Race was down a Dirt Back Road ! Bits started to fall off of Donald well berore the end.

Prior to the fight Lloyd said he was not going to worry about what Curry could Do, and that Curray would have to worry about what HE could do !

Unlike most of Donalds opponents, And whatever you thought of Lloyds Skills, you had to admire his confidence from the Get-Go, Donald had not faced this from his humble welterweight subjects before and he couldnt cope, this was one revolution he could not crush.

Or as my Texas Friend might of succinctly put it "...Big Hat...No Cattle..." !!

[Cobra33]

In a head to head match-up at there best Curry beats Honeyghan.Of course when offered a rematch with Curry years latter Honeyghan DECLINED.He caught Curry at the right moment simple as that.