Whey Isolate

[Ilesey]

I'm currently taking whey isolate and was wondering if anyone else does?

Do you find it does the job?

What brands do you find the best out there and is it important to mix it up??

Thanks in advance. :good

[TheRock49]

I take Isopure once a day in the morning after I run or lift. Its only like 250 calories, has zero carbs, one percent fat, and yet 50 grams of protein a drink. I just mix it with water to watch the calories. Having to make weight a few times a year it really helps not having to worry about its intake and such, yet get lots of protein. I eat about 4 or 5 meals a day besides that too.

[Koa]

Optimum 100% whey post workout.

Optimum Casein with some cooked oats, or cooked quinoa and a few blueberries or half a banana for meal replacements.

Optimum whey > Isopure

[Brighton bomber]

I take Whey isolate after every training session along with some simple carbs.

I have tried a number of different brands. I personally prefer Optimum Nutrition gold standard whey or PHD pharma whey.

[Koa]

Optimum has a great amino profile, is partially digested to quicken absorption, and has aminogen pro biotics to aid in absorption. It may not have the zero carb status as natures best isopure, but the product effectiveness, is better thought out.

50 grams of protein, half of which likely wont be absorbed. The body tends to work best in amounts less than 30 grams per serving.

[Koa]

The casein works great as a meal replacement when used with oatmeal or some other complex carb because it is very slow digesting.

So where Whey is more almost instant digested, within half an hour or so, Casein can take up to 6 hours to digest. Making it ideal if you are trying to cut and deal with hunger. Or gain, you can take it at bed time, making notorious catabolic sleep, somewhat anabolic.

[RDJ]

The more they find out about nutrition, the more these supplements will look like natural food.

[Koa]

The more they find out about nutrition, the more these supplements will look like natural food.

Really? What natural food acts like predigested whey?

What natural food acts like casein? (other than cottage cheese). Besides, I'd rather have a casein shake, than have cottage cheese.

[RDJ]

Really? What natural food acts like predigested whey?

Who says it should?

What natural food acts like casein? (other than cottage cheese). Besides, I'd rather have a casein shake, than have cottage cheese.

Casein is an ingredient of cow milk, so I would say milk acts like casein :huh

And why "other than cottage cheese" btw? Why doesn't it count? I'd rather have some cottage cheese with yogurt, an apple and some cinnamon than some refined to death shake that besides some protein offers no nutritional value at all.

Supplements change all the time. This years supplements are "better" than the ones sold last year. The more they find out about nutrition, the more things will be added to supplements, and they will end up with something that resembles the food they were isolating the supplement from in the first place. We are built to our foods specifications not the other way around.

[RDJ]

I don't get the "benefit" of having zero carbs either, I kinda need them.

[Koa]

Who says it should?



Casein is an ingredient of cow milk, so I would say milk acts like casein :huh

And why "other than cottage cheese" btw? Why doesn't it count? I'd rather have some cottage cheese with yogurt, an apple and some cinnamon than some refined to death shake that besides some protein offers no nutritional value at all.

Supplements change all the time. This years supplements are "better" than the ones sold last year. The more they find out about nutrition, the more things will be added to supplements, and they will end up with something that resembles the food they were isolating the supplement from in the first place. We are built to our foods specifications not the other way around.

Whey is part of cows milk too. But cows milk can be broken down into the parts that are very quickly absorbed and digested, as well as the things that take hours upon hours to be absorbed and digested.

It is great to have control over milk.. Instead of having to drink all the lactose sugars, gallons upon gallons of milk in order to get the needed protein is an insane proposition.

You go ahead and eat cottage cheese. Personally, I don't like it much.

[RDJ]

I'm not a bodybuilder, I don't need that much protein in the first place. I also don't see the importance of having it digested within minutes.

[Ilesey]

Thanks for all the responses folks.

I've bought Reflex, which seems to have a pretty good write up. I was never a fan of taking ANYTHING but I must admit that my new nutrtional plan, which includes taking whey isolate, is working wonder.

[Koa]

I'm not a bodybuilder, I don't need that much protein in the first place. I also don't see the importance of having it digested within minutes.

Digesting it quickly after a workout has a huge impact on recovery time, and results.

You might want to read up on it. :thumbsup

[RDJ]

Digesting it quickly after a workout has a huge impact on recovery time, and results.

You might want to read up on it. :thumbsup

For a bodybuilder perhaps, I don't need 30 grams of protein within minutes. My meals contain all kinds of nutrients found in natural food, that aid recovery as well. Nutrients not present in those supplements. My post workout meal contains some protein that digests a bit quicker, and some that takes longer. I think my body is perfectly capable of sorting that out. There's more to nutrition than protein.

My recovery is excellent on natural foods, better than it ever was on supplements. So no thanks, I'll stick to what to me is clearly superior, the real deal.

[RDJ]

Just for fucks sake could you link me to the research that shows I need predigested protein within minutes after finishing my boxing workout? I feel like reading up on it.

[Brighton bomber]

For a bodybuilder perhaps, I don't need 30 grams of protein within minutes. My meals contain all kinds of nutrients found in natural food, that aid recovery as well. Nutrients not present in those supplements. My post workout meal contains some protein that digests a bit quicker, and some that takes longer. I think my body is perfectly capable of sorting that out. There's more to nutrition than protein.

My recovery is excellent on natural foods, better than it ever was on supplements. So no thanks, I'll stick to what to me is clearly superior, the real deal.

It doesn't just benefit bodybuilders even endurance athletes know the importance of a proper post workout nutrition which includes simple carbs, minerals, nutrients and whey protein.

[RDJ]

It doesn't just benefit bodybuilders even endurance athletes know the importance of a proper post workout nutrition which includes simple carbs, minerals, nutrients and whey protein.

Nowhere did I say proper nutrition doesn't benefit all athletes :huh

I just don't think proper nutrition means getting 30 grams of protein within minutes, I think it's a bit more complicated.

[Koa]

You don't need it. It is just he best thing to have after a workout. Regular whey has a certain biological value, say under 100%. Predigested protein means more of it will be absorbed.

Research on whey (fast digesting) versus casein (slow digesting) post workout.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Whey protein isolate, not casein, improves strength and body composition
Cribb et al. found that whey protein isolate has a greater ability to enhance the changes in body composition and
strength that accompany routine resistance exercise compared to casein. In this 12-week, double-blind study, 13 male
recreational body builders supplemented their normal diet with one of two proteins: hydrolyzed whey isolate or casein.
Researchers examined the effects of protein supplementation on strength, body composition and glutamine levels in
the blood before and after a 10-week resistance-training program. Results of the study indicate that the hydrolyzed
whey protein isolate group achieved a significant increase in lean body mass and a significant decrease in body fat,
while the casein group showed no significant change in body composition. Additionally, while all subjects experienced
increases in strength following the 10-week training program, the subjects who consumed whey protein showed
significantly greater strength improvements in three exercises (barbell squat, bench press, and cable pull-down)
compared to those who consumed casein. There were no significant effects of either training or supplementation on
blood glutamine levels for either group.
Cribb P, Williams A, Carey M, Hayes A. The effect of whey isolate and resistance training on strength, body composition, and plasma glutamine.
International Journal of Sport Nutrition and Exercise Metabolism. 2006;16:494-509

Whey, by nature is going to be absorbed, or not absorbed very quickly, no matter what type of whey you are taking. What it comes down to is the bioavailability of the whey you ingest, and how much you ingest.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Possible Side Effects

Well no side effects have been shown although most doctors suggest that you shouldn’t be going overboard with protein shakes (i.e. a dozen protein shakes a day)! This is one thing I see some people get carried away with. Unless you are a serious bodybuilder you want to go for 2 -3 protein shakes a day at the most.

And remember this one rule, generally your body cannot absorb more than 30grams of whey protein in one sitting. Anything more and your liver is going to go into overdrive to try to process it all. The excess which it can’t absorb will just go right through you.




on bioavailability and whey processing methods.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Brighton bomber]

Nowhere did I say proper nutrition doesn't benefit all athletes :huh

I just don't think proper nutrition means getting 30 grams of protein within minutes, I think it's a bit more complicated.


And I never implied that you said it didn't either. I don't seem to have explained myself properly in my prior post.

You questioned the need of 30g of protein digested quickly post workout and seemed to think this is only beneficial if your a body builder or looking to add muscle mass. I am simply saying that even athletes who want to minimise the amount of excess muscle mass like endurance athletes take whey protein. Long distance runners have been taking protein powders post workout as far back as the seventies even before whey protein was sold as a supplement.

Studies have shown that carbs and protein at a ratio of 4:1 post workout along with fluids and proper mineral and nutrients help speed recovery times between training sessions. The importance of the speed of delivery of protein to repair the microtears in muscle fibres after a training session and simple carbs to replenish glycogen stores in muscles is well documented. The faster you can transport protein and glycogen to the muscles the faster the recovery and therefore the better your body will be for the following training session.

[RDJ]

Nowhere does that does show me that I need large amounts of protein within minutes from a supplement source. It shows some research on bodybuilders that shows eating fast digesting protein post workout is good, and that's why my post workout food contains some fast digesting protein. That much is clear, I do not dispute that. What I do dispute is the amount, and the time in which I need it. What kind of diet were those bodybuilders on, apart from their whey intake? How would they have done on a 100% natural diet containing those same proteins, but more nutrients? That in no way shows me that a boxer needs 30 grams of protein within minutes.

Your second and third link basically explain what whey is, I already knew that.

[RDJ]

And I never implied that you said it didn't either. I don't seem to have explained myself properly in my prior post.

Sorry for jumping to conclusions then.

You questioned the need of 30g of protein digested quickly post workout and seemed to think this is only beneficial if your a body builder or looking to add muscle mass. I am simply saying that even athletes who want to minimise the amount of excess muscle mass like endurance athletes take whey protein. Long distance runners have been taking protein powders post workout as far back as the seventies even before whey protein was sold as a supplement.

I know whey protein can be very beneficial for all athletes, I just think it's a bit over the top for a boxer to be concerned with getting so much of it so fast.

Studies have shown that carbs and protein at a ratio of 4:1 post workout along with fluids and proper mineral and nutrients help speed recovery times between training sessions. The importance of the speed of delivery of protein to repair the microtears in muscle fibres after a training session and simple carbs to replenish glycogen stores in muscles is well documented. The faster you can transport protein and glycogen to the muscles the faster the recovery and therefore the better your body will be for the following training session.

It's the minerals and nutrients that I'm concerned about, that is where whole natural food excels. And that is also the reason I made the claim this whole discussion started with, that the more they find out, the more will be added, and the more the supplement will look like whole natural food.

I don't have anything against whey, it's great stuff, excellent source of protein. But to take a post workout meal consisting of nothing but whey? Fuck that. In the past I put about 10 grams of it in my post workout shake. I ran out and never replaced it, so now I just add more cottage cheese (fromage frais).

[Koa]

Nowhere does that does show me that I need large amounts of protein within minutes from a supplement source. It shows some research on bodybuilders that show eating fast digesting protein post workout is good, and that's why my post workout food contains some fast digesting protein. That much is clear, I do not dispute that. What I do dispute is the amount, and the time in which I need it. What kind of diet were those bodybuilders on, apart from their whey intake? How would they have done on a 100% natural diet containing those same proteins, but more nutrients? That in no way shows me that a boxer needs 30 grams of protein within minutes.

Your second and third link basically explain what whey is, I already knew that.

It helps the recovery process. I'm not saying you need it, I'm saying it is optimal for recovery because immediately after a workout, your body is prime for absorption and will utilize things like whey and a simple sugar very efficiently. It is superior to hitting the shower, cleaning up, and eating your post workout meal 45 minutes later.

I'm not training for anything in particular right now. But, if I were? I'd have a good balanced protein shake after a hard workout, with something along the lines of 20-30 grams of protein, and likely 40-60 grams of simple carbs (like dextrose), and a multivitamin immediately after a hard workout, the sooner the better.

Likley, it is going to be an hour or so for me to clean up and eat my post workout meal. Which would consist of a well balanced meal, probably only slightly less than what you are talking about considering I'm trying to either cut, or maintain weight.

[RDJ]

It helps the recovery process. I'm not saying you need it, I'm saying it is optimal for recovery because immediately after a workout, your body is prime for absorption and will utilize things like whey and a simple sugar very efficiently. It is superior to hitting the shower, cleaning up, and eating your post workout meal 45 minutes later.

I'm not training for anything in particular right now. But, if I were? I'd have a good balanced protein shake after a hard workout, with something along the lines of 20-30 grams of protein, and likely 40-60 grams of simple carbs (like dextrose), and a multivitamin immediately after a hard workout, the sooner the better.

I take a shake right after my workout, the first real meal is about an hour and a 5 mile bike ride later. Instead of dextrose, a sugar void of the fibers, (trace) minerals and vitamins that should be accompanying it, I add fruits. The multivitamin (that I do take, but in the morning) isn't needed, because those come from fruit. I also add fresh cheese (I think that's cottage cheese but perhaps the translation is off) and yogurt. There's flaxseed oil in it as well, and some cinnamon. If I still had whey protein I would add 5 to 10 grams at most but I ran out.

Likley, it is going to be an hour or so for me to clean up and eat my post workout meal. Which would consist of a well balanced meal, probably only slightly less than what you are talking about considering I'm trying to either cut, or maintain weight.

My first meal after I get home is usually red meat, chicken or fish and some vegetables. Plus onions, garlic, etc, as rich on nutrients as possible. After that I drink tea (mixed tea with shit loads of herbs). I'm a nutrient junkie instead of a protein junkie :D

[TheRock49]

mmmmm, Isopure... :D

[Koa]

I take a shake right after my workout, the first real meal is about an hour and a 5 mile bike ride later. Instead of dextrose, a sugar void of the fibers, (trace) minerals and vitamins that should be accompanying it, I add fruits. The multivitamin (that I do take, but in the morning) isn't needed, because those come from fruit. I also add fresh cheese (I think that's cottage cheese but perhaps the translation is off) and yogurt. There's flaxseed oil in it as well, and some cinnamon. If I still had whey protein I would add 5 to 10 grams at most but I ran out.



My first meal after I get home is usually red meat, chicken or fish and some vegetables. Plus onions, garlic, etc, as rich on nutrients as possible. After that I drink tea (mixed tea with shit loads of herbs). I'm a nutrient junkie instead of a protein junkie :D

I take nutrition very seriously as well. I take into account that the body is only primed, and essentially begging for simple protein and very simple sugars immediately after a workout. In fact, the only time I feel a simple sugar is a good thing is immediately after a workout, and this is specifically to a very simple sugar so that the body loads the starving muscles quickly in order to prevent catabolism, and make the most of that hard work I just put in. A very good alternative to dextrose would be 10-12 oz of orange juice or grape juice mixed with the protein. I would recommend using a vanilla flavored protein so you get more of a creamsicle sort of flavor.

If I wait, or provide the body with a harder to digest carb, then risk missing the window altogether, or catching a less than prime time.

Thats all man.

If your really into eating healthy. You might try replacing your oats with quinoa, lacing your quinoa breakfast with walnuts and blueberries, or perhaps raspberries, a banana depending on whats available.

You might also consider uping your calcium intake (you would be surprised how important calcium is, as well as its benefits), replacing flax with fish oils, as they are known to lower working and resting heart rate with otherwise the same benefits of flax. And some sort of Glucosamine Chondroitin supplement.

[Brighton bomber]

I don't have anything against whey, it's great stuff, excellent source of protein. But to take a post workout meal consisting of nothing but whey? Fuck that.

You are absolutely right about just taking protein after a workout, that would have no where near the same beneficial effects as a balance meal containing carbs, protein, fluids and essential vitamins and minerals. Studies have shown the combination of carbs and protein combined speeds up the transport of these macronutrients to the muscles.

[RDJ]

I take nutrition very seriously as well. I take into account that the body is only primed, and essentially begging for simple protein and very simple sugars immediately after a workout. In fact, the only time I feel a simple sugar is a good thing is immediately after a workout, and this is specifically to a very simple sugar so that the body loads the starving muscles quickly in order to prevent catabolism, and make the most of that hard work I just put in. A very good alternative to dextrose would be 10-12 oz of orange juice or grape juice mixed with the protein. I would recommend using a vanilla flavored protein so you get more of a creamsicle sort of flavor.

If I wait, or provide the body with a harder to digest carb, then risk missing the window altogether, or catching a less than prime time.

Thats all man.

If your really into eating healthy. You might try replacing your oats with quinoa, lacing your quinoa breakfast with walnuts and blueberries, or perhaps raspberries, a banana depending on whats available.

You might also consider uping your calcium intake (you would be surprised how important calcium is, as well as its benefits), replacing flax with fish oils, as they are known to lower working and resting heart rate with otherwise the same benefits of flax. And some sort of Glucosamine Chondroitin supplement.

I don't take oats or quinoa. My shake already contains multiple fruits (banana, peach, cherries, blackberries, blueberries and goji), something I consider quite superior to empty dextrose. That shake is taken before I hop into the shower after workouts. I already take fish oil daily, as well as glucosamine. My calcium intake is rather high, because I eat loads of whole foods rich on minerals.

Funny, you kinda adviced me what has been my stance throughout this thread. Replacing foods low on nutrients by richer ones.

[RDJ]

You are absolutely right about just taking protein after a workout, that would have no where near the same beneficial effects as a balance meal containing carbs, protein, fluids and essential vitamins and minerals. Studies have shown the combination of carbs and protein combined speeds up the transport of these macronutrients to the muscles.

I think that combination is perfect in natural foods. They also contain nutrients that have not (yet) shown to be beneficial. In time supplements and meal replacers will as well. I'm not against supplements, I use them as well. Some people just put too much trust in them, they are less good than whole natural foods, not better because of the "science" behind them. I use fish oil because I can't afford fish daily, and glucosamine because I hate eating creatures with shells.

[Drofrah]

After i exercise i usually have eggs and fish like salmon as i do it in the morning.

Is this adequate?

[Brighton bomber]

After i exercise i usually have eggs and fish like salmon as i do it in the morning.

Is this adequate?

If that's all you're having then no it isn't adequate. Protein alone isnt enough after any training session the body is crying out for a number of different things. Simple carbs to restore glycogen in the muscles, protein to repair muscles, fluids to rehydrate and electrolytes to replace what has been lost through sweat which help with rehydration.

[Drofrah]

So protein from eggs and fish, simple carbs from fruit? water and a sports drink?

[Koa]

Not according to me. Not at all.

You are missing out if you limit your carbs to fruit. They are a good source, but this sort of thing goes right through you. Have fun feeling starved all day.

[Drofrah]

So more specifically, as its clear i havent got a clue, what would be best for my morning post work out carbs.

I eat carbs for lunch, just dont want to over do it

[Koa]

Do you workout before you eat breakfast?

[T.J.]

RDJ every comment you have posted on this forum disgusts me...do your fucking research about anything before you let your fingers type...u sound/look like a fucking idiot...shows how much you know about any physiology/anatomy...

[RDJ]

RDJ every comment you have posted on this forum disgusts me...do your fucking research about anything before you let your fingers type...u sound/look like a fucking idiot...shows how much you know about any physiology/anatomy...

:lol:

Enlighten me.

[RDJ]

Ps. posted this in a different thread, but it's on topic here as well.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Primadonna Kool]

RDJ every comment you have posted on this forum disgusts me...do your fucking research about anything before you let your fingers type...u sound/look like a fucking idiot...shows how much you know about any physiology/anatomy...

ha ha :lol: i like this post.

but it's not 100% true.

[gigogreco]

If that's all you're having then no it isn't adequate. Protein alone isnt enough after any training session the body is crying out for a number of different things. Simple carbs to restore glycogen in the muscles, protein to repair muscles, fluids to rehydrate and electrolytes to replace what has been lost through sweat which help with rehydration.

you seem to know a great deal about this, so i wonder what you would recommend, right after a hard workout.. could you perhaps give an example mate.?

and which brands do you recommend..?

i just eat rather healthy, but still seem to tire out quickly and my restitution is lacking a bit.. perhaps im feeling the strains of approaching 30:lol:

its not about getting bigger, as i just started boxing and want maintain my weight, so while im trying to maintain weight, i might miss some things through mymeals.. so any advice would be much appreciated.

[Brighton bomber]

you seem to know a great deal about this, so i wonder what you would recommend, right after a hard workout.. could you perhaps give an example mate.?

and which brands do you recommend..?

i just eat rather healthy, but still seem to tire out quickly and my restitution is lacking a bit.. perhaps im feeling the strains of approaching 30:lol:

its not about getting bigger, as i just started boxing and want maintain my weight, so while im trying to maintain weight, i might miss some things through mymeals.. so any advice would be much appreciated.

After every training session I immediately have whey protein with water, a good multi vitamin and some fruit, usually water melon or OJ. I try to consume at least 400 cals or so.

[T.J.]

i will enlighten u ...if u obtain any type of very good isolate protein it is beneficial to u in many ways...of course diet is the best...natural protein from natural foods...BUT...after a workout protein is a necessity...ur body has just broken down your myosin philaments in your muscles...the reason one gets sore is because everytime u have a hard workout ur muscles actually have microscopic tears...food does not digest right away...u need something that is fast digesting...i.e. whey isolate...to repair those muscles as fast as possible...and get u the nutrients u need...optimum nutrition gold standard whey offers a great protein powder for the money..is has an abundant supply of amino acids in it.. including glutamine...glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in the body and is a transport mechanism for protein...digesting protein and electrolytes right after your workout fuels your muscles and helps u repair the damage u just did to them...they r fast digesting and get into the blood stream immediately...your comment of getting your nutritious necessities from natural food is right...to an extent...protein powder is very beneficial to u after a workout...and before bed...when u go to bed ur body is catabolic...meaning it is using whatever it can to fuel your muscles ...having a shake before bed is beneficial as well so that your body is using that to fuel yourself...i.e. casein protein...it is slower digesting...yes a strong diet is essential...especially since that is the purest form of nutrients your body can get...but substituting a isolate shake after your workout and b4 bed is even more beneficial...i dont know what u were taking but a lot of protein powders have binders and fillers in them to fill the container...isolate is the PUREST form of protein u can get ...and when used correctly is essential to someone who actually works their ass off in the gym...hope your enlightened...if not...then ask me something else because my fingers got tired of typing...