GSP v SAKURABA....... Who Wins ?

[Bill Butcher]

Saku was 1 of the best ever in his prime & at 1 point the no1 p4p in pride, GSP seems to be the man of the moment & was recently voted HERE as the UFCs best ever fighter, what would happen if both guys met ?
The current Georges st Pierre vs the Sakuraba from say the days when he beat 4 Gracies ?

I know Saku was a bit bigger but not as much as you would think, Sak always weighed in between 180-185 without cutting weight in pride even tho he always fought against natural Lt-HWTs, Im guessing GSP walks around the same but cuts to 170, I dont see a huge size difference in this fight, it would be more skill than anything that wins it.

My vote - Sakuraba by submission :good

[MaliSlamusrex]

i am voting for GSP for the simple fact that the sport has moved on since Sakuraba pioneered his style. Sakuraba didn't have the training methods, sparing partners or
opportunities that GSP has had because the sport is different now than it was even 5 years ago.

[Shogun_12]

GSP by gnp. how would saku take down GSP? yes his single leg td is legendary but gsp stuffs it all day. and i dont think he could submit GSP from the bottom. Pride rules GSP wins by UD. UFC rules (w/ elbows) GSP destroys saku's face.

[Koa]

Sakuraba was very talented and speedy. But he took a LOT of risks for the sake of entertainment. I think, in some ways his abilities are under-rated because of this. Had he been a more cautious fighter, he likely would have far fewer losses. GSP, being so well rounded, so dynamic, and with such good striking at this stage of development in MMA just seems to catapult him to another level..

However, we do have retards like Griffen and Evans as UFC LHW champs today. Half the time I feel the sport has de-evolved.

[OuterDrake]

Sakuraba falls short as he still borders in the one dimensional realm

[Bill Butcher]

Sakuraba falls short as he still borders in the one dimensional realm

Worst comment this year :patsch

[ufoalf]

i am voting for gsp for the simple fact that the sport has moved on since sakuraba pioneered his style. Sakuraba didn't have the training methods, sparing partners or
opportunities that gsp has had because the sport is different now than it was even 5 years ago.
+1

[Bill Butcher]

When was the last time you seen prime Sakuraba out-wrestled ?
Even if GSP did get Sak down, it would only be briefly then Sak would be straight back up as he always did (prime.)

Sak hits harder with both hands & feet, can match GSPs wrestling & strength & is a much better submission fighter + has fought & beat the better fighters.

I made this thread so see how short some memories are & they sure are short.

Sakuraba is right up there with Fedor as the best p4p MMA fighter ever, GSP is certainly on the right path but I think Sak would brutalize his legs in the stand up & eventually when they played the ground game, Sak would submit him, he subbed far better BJJ guys than GSP in his time.

GSPs top 2 wins are Penn (LWT) & Hughes (past prime), what would Sak do to those guys ?
Sak has defeated Rampage, Randlemann, Vernon White, Newton, Belfort, 4 Gracies, Ken Shamrock, you name it, he fought them all & only the Gracies didnt have a big size advantage over him, the sport hasnt evolved that much, look at Couture`s dominance in both era`s.

I give GSP little chance vs Sakuraba.

[chimba]

Sakuraba was at the time the real definition of a p4p fighter. GSP is bigger than Saku. Saku at 180 is soft. Saku was also the first to break the aura of the Gracies, that alone should have him commended.

In saying that, if they fight prime 4 prime.. I think GSP can eek out a decision based on his amazing ability to take you down and control you there. To me this is the kind of fighter GSP is, takedown and control. He has mastered it. I hate to say this but if someone can prevent the TD against George, he's an ordinary fighter standing up.

Although Saku was very tricky on the ground and would go for a ton of subs I dont think he can sub GSP with or w/o vaseline.

I cant count Saku out though, he is a more dynamic striker than GSP and he has underrated leg kicks. He is also very sturdy and have fought bigger and stronger guys.

[Shogun_12]

makes me wanna see this fight, sadly saku is past his prime.

[québecwarrior]

Sakuraba was at the time the real definition of a p4p fighter. GSP is bigger than Saku. Saku at 180 is soft. Saku was also the first to break the aura of the Gracies, that alone should have him commended.

In saying that, if they fight prime 4 prime.. I think GSP can eek out a decision based on his amazing ability to take you down and control you there. To me this is the kind of fighter GSP is, takedown and control. He has mastered it. I hate to say this but if someone can prevent the TD against George, he's an ordinary fighter standing up.

Although Saku was very tricky on the ground and would go for a ton of subs I dont think he can sub GSP with or w/o vaseline.

I cant count Saku out though, he is a more dynamic striker than GSP and he has underrated leg kicks. He is also very sturdy and have fought bigger and stronger guys.
:lol::lol::lol:if gsp is ordinary standing so 95percent of ufc fighter are ordinary.
but now I KNOW why you were saying BJ would beat GSP! That's because of the limited GSP on his feet right?
You must think that Wanderlei is shitty on the ground, since he likes more to bang:patsch

[chimba]

:lol::lol::lol:if gsp is ordinary standing so 95percent of ufc fighter are ordinary.
but now I KNOW why you were saying BJ would beat GSP! That's because of the limited GSP on his feet right?
You must think that Wanderlei is shitty on the ground, since he likes more to bang:patsch

:lol: I just posted that just to get you all riled up. BTW Wanderlai has very ordinary ground game relatively speaking.

[Bill Butcher]

GSPs only chance to beat Sakuraba is to get the takedown & work from the guard but even then I dont see Sak staying on the bottom for long, he was hardly ever on the bottom in his prime, I strongly doubt George could even out-wrestle Sak, he used to give his back to high level BJJ guys & go for the kimura & roll for leglocks & stuff but he was never dominated on the ground & I wouldnt be 1 bit suprised to see Sak take GSP down & beat the shit out of him from GSPs guard waiting for a mistake & boom, armbar.

Ive seen every single Sakuraba fight in his prime, from the HWT tourney fight in UFC Japan 97 were he armbarred the massive Conan Silvera to the 2nd Wand Silva fight, Ive seen many more like vs Randlemann, Nogueira, Arona etc but his prime was between the Silvera & Wand 2nd fight, after that he was in bad decline.

That version of Sakuraba would hand GSP his ass.

[jimmie]

GSP is probablly the most complete fighter in MMA history and I can say without any doubt hes more complete then Sakuraba not to mention he clearly trains harder and would have worked on a perfect gameplan with coach Greg Jackson. Sakuraba would have a submission fighters chance but GSP at this stage is very good at nullifying a guys submission game anyone who knows anything about grappling knows how accomplished BJ Penn and Matt Serra are and look at what they did vs GSP nothing blank nadda hell BJ couldnt accomplish much in the 1st fight on the ground either. GSP now is much more improved from the guy who got armbarred by Hughes then in ADCC 2005.

[Bill Butcher]

GSP is more athletic & more explosive but Sakuraba is super relaxed, extremely smart & a better technician in grappling.
Sak also takes the better shot which could be vital too.

[Bill Butcher]

GSP is probablly the most complete fighter in MMA history and I can say without any doubt hes more complete then Sakuraba not to mention he clearly trains harder and would have worked on a perfect gameplan with coach Greg Jackson. Sakuraba would have a submission fighters chance but GSP at this stage is very good at nullifying a guys submission game anyone who knows anything about grappling knows how accomplished BJ Penn and Matt Serra are and look at what they did vs GSP nothing blank nadda hell BJ couldnt accomplish much in the 1st fight on the ground either. GSP now is much more improved from the guy who got armbarred by Hughes then in ADCC 2005.

Sakuraba is a far superior wrestler than either Penn or Serra, they couldnt stop the takedown nor score any takedowns to put GSP in a bad position (on bottom or made to work from his guard)
Sak is also bigger than those 2 guys, he punches & kicks harder & as far as applying submissions in MMA fights I rate him higher than Penn & Serra.
(Straight grappling might be different, especially vs Penn but in MMA, Sak was a 10/10 submission specialist.)

If Sak doesnt submit or KO GSP, it could be a close one due to GSPs high workrate but I still think Sak would have scored enough dominant positions & strikes to take it on points.

A more difficult to call fight would be Sak v Andy Silva, GSP wouldnt beat Sakuraba IMO, Id probably back Sak v Silva never mind GSP.

[sugarngold]

Saku via kimura.

[québecwarrior]

Sakuraba is a far superior wrestler than either Penn or Serra, they couldnt stop the takedown nor score any takedowns to put GSP in a bad position (on bottom or made to work from his guard)
Sak is also bigger than those 2 guys, he punches & kicks harder & as far as applying submissions in MMA fights I rate him higher than Penn & Serra.
(Straight grappling might be different, especially vs Penn but in MMA, Sak was a 10/10 submission specialist.)

If Sak doesnt submit or KO GSP, it could be a close one due to GSPs high workrate but I still think Sak would have scored enough dominant positions & strikes to take it on points.

A more difficult to call fight would be Sak v Andy Silva, GSP wouldnt beat Sakuraba IMO, Id probably back Sak v Silva never mind GSP.
That DONT matter how good Sakuraba is good in wrestling, because he ISNT on GSP'S level, Sak wouldnt score one dominant position. If Kos cannot take GSP's down with one leg, Sakuraba wont. And common, I do agree that sakuraba would have a chance to submit him, but KO GSP? Since when GSP take blow to the head minus Serra 1? GSP is seriously hard to hit clean. Fitch did connect 2 right hands and Penn in the first fight landed a fair amount of blow, but nothing who troubled GSP, and Sakuraba don't have that accuracy to trouble GSP whos more slick and better footwork.

GSP by being the more evolved fighter over a guy who was a beast back then but didnt have all the training, nutrition that a guy like GSP have.
GSP TKO in the second round, after giving Sakubara trouble with his GnP in the 1st round.

[Utter1]

Sakuraba was very talented and speedy. But he took a LOT of risks for the sake of entertainment. I think, in some ways his abilities are under-rated because of this. Had he been a more cautious fighter, he likely would have far fewer losses. GSP, being so well rounded, so dynamic, and with such good striking at this stage of development in MMA just seems to catapult him to another level..

However, we do have retards like Griffen and Evans as UFC LHW champs today. Half the time I feel the sport has de-evolved.

Why does Rashad Evands get such a bad rap?

[OuterDrake]

Worst comment this year :patsch

Lets see,he beats the old ufc generation(primarily 1d fighters)


Sakuraba should have walked through Cro Cop and Manhoef with his ground game.But his stand up is not in par to even stall the fight for a perfect takedown.

Thus being 1D fighter(borderline)

[Koa]

Why does Rashad Evands get such a bad rap?

The guy tries. He just has nothing special other than wrestling, which is used more to nullify. There is nothing dynamic, or electric, or exciting about him. Strikes are powerful, but quite sloppy.

Compare this guy to Rampage.. I mean what the fuck? What is it that Rampage has that Evans doesn't as far as pedigree, and opportunity? Back when Rampage had almost no standup training, he was a better striker than Rashad. Rampage's wrestling ability is superb, he has what would be considered very good experience, but not a pedigree like Rashad.

I guess I'm just upset that Rampage had the championship taken from him in the first place. He didn't lose that fight with Forrest, and no way in hell do I believe Forrest BEAT Rampage, so I have a feeling, more that Rashad is an illegitimate champ in the first place. I think THIS is why I don't like him. Watching him, just feels like watching a scrub.. Its like watching a scrub, who beat a scrub who was given a gift I guess.

As much as I think Diego Sanchez is a tool, I still recognize he is a dynamic fighter, and I recognize Kos as a dynamic fighter as well. If either of them Got a belt, I wouldn't be so upset. They somehow seem to be more refined/ clean.

Its like the game has gone from looking for victory via counter, or dynamic refined skill, to winning a fight via low risk, low reward exchanges due to the ability to nullify entire skill sets.

[Bill Butcher]

Lets see,he beats the old ufc generation(primarily 1d fighters)


Sakuraba should have walked through Cro Cop and Manhoef with his ground game.But his stand up is not in par to even stall the fight for a perfect takedown.

Thus being 1D fighter(borderline)

Cro-cop was a full HWT & in those yrs was beating Josh Barnett 3 times & giving prime Nog & Fedor all they could handle + Sakuraba was giving a fantastic acount of himself before the doctor/referee stopped the fight because his eye socket was smashed to pieces & Sak still wanted to fight on.
Can you imagine GSP vs Cro-cop ?
1 kick & :dead for George, lets get real here.

To mention Manhoef`s name in order to discredit Sakuraba is like mentioning Berbick`s name to discredit Ali, the man is a complete shell of himself & should have retired many yrs ago, Im talking primes here, Sak would break GSPs arm in 2-3 rds.

[Bill Butcher]

That DONT matter how good Sakuraba is good in wrestling, because he ISNT on GSP'S level, Sak wouldnt score one dominant position. If Kos cannot take GSP's down with one leg, Sakuraba wont. And common, I do agree that sakuraba would have a chance to submit him, but KO GSP? Since when GSP take blow to the head minus Serra 1? GSP is seriously hard to hit clean. Fitch did connect 2 right hands and Penn in the first fight landed a fair amount of blow, but nothing who troubled GSP, and Sakuraba don't have that accuracy to trouble GSP whos more slick and better footwork.

GSP by being the more evolved fighter over a guy who was a beast back then but didnt have all the training, nutrition that a guy like GSP have.
GSP TKO in the second round, after giving Sakubara trouble with his GnP in the 1st round.

It DOES matter that Sakuraba is a great wrestler & he IS on George`s level.
He had trouble taking Penn down when he was fresh in the 1st rd, Penn is MUCH smaller & NOWHERE NEAR as good a wrestler as Saku, once GSP keeps trying to get Sak down & cant, then tries to outstrike him & gets his thighs smashed up you will see him make basic mistakes of which Sak will take full advantage of, eventually Sak will get him to the ground & his black belt level BJJ skills will not be enough to stop Sak applying a submission after a few mongolian chops & solid punches.

Also... I wish people would STFU about the sport having evolved so much with training & nutrients, what a crock of shit, seriously, its not as if Saku fought in the fuckin 50s, his prime was from about 98-01/02.
Thats like saying a prime Roy Jones couldnt compete now.

Sakuraba ALWAYS trained extremely hard in his prime... the man went an hour & a half with Royce Gracie then later that SAME NIGHT came out & had an even fight with HEAVYWEIGHT Igor Vovchanchan.

GSP has A LOT to do before he can be compared to Sakuraba IMO.

[québecwarrior]

It DOES matter that Sakuraba is a great wrestler & he IS on George`s level.
He had trouble taking Penn down when he was fresh in the 1st rd, Penn is MUCH smaller & NOWHERE NEAR as good a wrestler as Saku, once GSP keeps trying to get Sak down & cant, then tries to outstrike him & gets his thighs smashed up you will see him make basic mistakes of which Sak will take full advantage of, eventually Sak will get him to the ground & his black belt level BJJ skills will not be enough to stop Sak applying a submission after a few mongolian chops & solid punches.

Also... I wish people would STFU about the sport having evolved so much with training & nutrients, what a crock of shit, seriously, its not as if Saku fought in the fuckin 50s, his prime was from about 98-01/02.
Thats like saying a prime Roy Jones couldnt compete now.

Sakuraba ALWAYS trained extremely hard in his prime... the man went an hour & a half with Royce Gracie then later that SAME NIGHT came out & had an even fight with HEAVYWEIGHT Igor Vovchanchan.

GSP has A LOT to do before he can be compared to Sakuraba IMO.
Penn stopped the takedown from the CLINCH in the first round. Its not GSP's bread and butter who are takedown from distance where he shoot. Sakuraba never fought an athlete AND hardworker like GSP, never. You really believe GSP will not be able to take down Sakuraba:lol::lol::lol:What make you think so? Name me a better wrestler that Sakuraba fought than GSP and who wasnt able to take him down? The only place Sakuraba have a chance to submit GSP is from his back. GSP will outwrestle, outhustle, outpower him EVEN if he is the smaller man. Watch GSP-Serra 1 if you want to believe yourself about that.
GSP is faster, stronger, better footwork, better stamina, better standing, better GnP, better coaching.


GSP TKO 2

[Bill Butcher]

Penn stopped the takedown from the CLINCH in the first round. Its not GSP's bread and butter who are takedown from distance where he shoot. Sakuraba never fought an athlete AND hardworker like GSP, never. You really believe GSP will not be able to take down Sakuraba:lol::lol::lol:What make you think so? Name me a better wrestler that Sakuraba fought than GSP and who wasnt able to take him down? The only place Sakuraba have a chance to submit GSP is from his back. GSP will outwrestle, outhustle, outpower him EVEN if he is the smaller man. Watch GSP-Serra 1 if you want to believe yourself about that.
GSP is faster, stronger, better footwork, better stamina, better standing, better GnP, better coaching.


GSP TKO 2

Obviously you havent seen a prime Sakuraba fight to utter such crazy statements.
I dont why you mention the 1st Serra fight, that only hurts your arguement, I probably wouldnt have brought that up as I feel Serra got plain lucky & the much better overall fighter lost that night.
GSP out-wrestles WELTERWEIGHTS because he is always the much stronger man, Sakuraba would play with GSP, prevent the takedowns & destroy GSPs thighs with kicks, GSP would get the better of the punching IMO but would take a fair few himself & harder ones at that.

How do you know GSP has better stamina than Sakuraba, the guy fought for 90mins then came out & fought another 15mins vs someone that much bigger & stronger that it would never be allowed in UFC even in a one-off fight never mind a tourney.

When GSP comes up against an opponent that can take him a solid 5 rd fight, then we can talk stamina, until then you cant compare stamina with a fighter of Saku`s stamina, he was always tip top shape in his prime.

You do know that Sakuraba used to beat BIG Lt-HWTs right ? as pride never had a Lt-HWT division.
GSP hasnt even proved he can hang with MWTs yet never mind Lt-HWTs.

Sakuraba`s wrestling pedigree is of an extremely high level, no way GSP manhandles him the way he did Penn, Serra, Toscheck & co.

Go watch Sakuraba vs......
Silvera, White, Newton, Goes, Belfort, Fontes Braga, the Gracies (Royce, Royler, Renzo, Ryan), Vovchanchan, Rampage, Wanderlei II, Randlemann, Nogueira, Cro-cop......
then we can try work out a plan for GSP to beat that version, I dont like our chances but we`ll give it a shot.

Maybe the nutrients & `modern` training will help :rofl

[québecwarrior]

Obviously you havent seen a prime Sakuraba fight to utter such crazy statements.
who the fuck are you to say what did I watch and what I didnt?
I dont why you mention the 1st Serra fight, that only hurts your arguement, I probably wouldnt have brought that up as I feel Serra got plain lucky & the much better overall fighter lost that night.
GSP out-wrestles WELTERWEIGHTS because he is always the much stronger man, Sakuraba would play with GSP, prevent the takedowns & destroy GSPs thighs with kicks, GSP would get the better of the punching IMO but would take a fair few himself & harder ones at that.
GSP can take down RASHAD fuckin EVANS, but he CANT takedown Sakuraba because Sakuraba fought LHW guys?:lol:
And you think GSP isnt able to defeng leg kicks?Don't mean because nobody TRIED to kick him, that he CANT defend them.

How do you know GSP has better stamina than Sakuraba, the guy fought for 90mins then came out & fought another 15mins vs someone that much bigger & stronger that it would never be allowed in UFC even in a one-off fight never mind a tourney.
GSP has a better stamina than Sakuraba in a 25 minutes fight, UFC rules, its not my opinion its a fact. The only fighter who may have a better stamina than GSP is Sherk. Sakuraba never fought a guy with such a high workrate whos NEVER winded after 25minutes. Even jimmie think GSP is on roid because he find it insane how great his stamina is.

When GSP comes up against an opponent that can take him a solid 5 rd fight, then we can talk stamina, until then you cant compare stamina with a fighter of Saku`s stamina, he was always tip top shape in his prime.
GSP make them look like they dont have great stamina, its simple, because he is a beast in that aspect, what do you want more?Fitch, Kos have great stamina, GSP just have better

You do know that Sakuraba used to beat BIG Lt-HWTs right ? as pride never had a Lt-HWT division.
GSP hasnt even proved he can hang with MWTs yet never mind Lt-HWTs.
Ok, why GSP should go hang with LHW to prove he could beat a 185lbs fighter who fight at that weight? Its a stupid statement, well, BJ Penn could certainly beat GSP, since he could hang with LHW super Machida:patsch

Sakuraba`s wrestling pedigree is of an extremely high level, no way GSP manhandles him the way he did Penn, Serra, Toscheck & co.
Sakuraba's wrestling is not on the level of Koscheck, its not my biased opinion who say that, but the FACT that he is regard as one of the best WRESTLER of all-time in college. And like I said, if GSP can take Rashad Evans, a 205lbs down easily, another great college wrestler and mma wrestler, then yes the chance he can take down Sakuraba is pretty good. And i'm not even talking about the couple of takedown GSP did in the show of primetime, there were and open session for fan at tristar gym and he was sparring with Rashad, and he was taking down easily.

Go watch Sakuraba vs......
Silvera, White, Newton, Goes, Belfort, Fontes Braga, the Gracies (Royce, Royler, Renzo, Ryan), Vovchanchan, Rampage, Wanderlei II, Randlemann, Nogueira, Cro-cop......
then we can try work out a plan for GSP to beat that version, I dont like our chances but we`ll give it a shot.

Maybe the nutrients & `modern` training will help :rofl

Sports evolded so much since 2001
Anyway you must think that a prime Ken Shamrock beat a prime Lyoto Machida right?or Bruce Lee would beat BJ Penn ?
any i've made my points, I did watch Sakuraba vs the gracies, all his fight with Wandy, the fight with Randleman, his fight vs Rampage ect ect, and I did see fuckin Carlos Newton takin him down and takin his back.
je taime
:thumbsup:thumbsup

[Bill Butcher]

Quebec.....

1. If you had watched Saku in his prime vs those guys then I believe your opinion of him would be higher.

2. If you have seen those fights I mentioned, watch them again, you missed something.

3. When GSP starts taking Evans down in real fights, then we can talk.

4. Toscheck being a great college wrestler has got nothing to do with anything, I never said GSPs wrestling was bad, I said Sakuraba`s is better than you give him credit for.

5. That version of Machida was nothing to the more complete & just plain better version we see today, Machida would absolutely rape both BJ & GSP if they fought today.

6. Im not saying GSP have bad stamina, Im saying Sakuraba proved his stamina more than GSP has til this point, lets see GSP in a real tough distance fight & get confirmation of what you (& I for that matter) believe, that GSP has great stamina.

7. Sakuraba by armbar rd 3 over GSP, this wouldnt even be Sakuraba`s toughest win.


Ps. The sport has went thru some evolutions but I dont see that it has improved THAT MUCH that a well rounded, well conditioned guy like Sakuraba wouldnt be able to be just as strong a force now as he was then, no way, not enough yrs have passed to make such a claim & Ive been watching MMA for about 10 yrs + seen about 95% of the fights that happened before I started following it.

:good

[québecwarrior]

as I edited
any i've made my points, I did watch Sakuraba vs the gracies, all his fight with Wandy, the fight with Randleman, his fight vs Rampage ect ect, and I did see fuckin Carlos Newton takin him down and takin his back.

[québecwarrior]

oh and it may seem that i'm agressive over this subject, but i'm not, its only that my english make it sound like this:good

[Bill Butcher]

as I edited
any i've made my points, I did watch Sakuraba vs the gracies, all his fight with Wandy, the fight with Randleman, his fight vs Rampage ect ect, and I did see fuckin Carlos Newton takin him down and takin his back.

I seen Carlos Newton take Dan Henderson down aswell but he didnt keep him there just like he didnt keep Sakuraba there & 1 takedown doesnt make you a better wrestler, its a fight, stuff happens.
Sak likes to give his back, he loves the high level BJJ guys trying to sub him from that position then he goes for his own sub`s.
I do BJJ & usually when even a purple belt has your back its game over, Sak used to give the fuckin GRACIES his back & never came close to being submitted.
Renzo Gracie gave GSP his black belt, Sak nearly halved Renzo`s arm in 2 via kimura.

Saku`s submissions were a work of art, I think he takes GSPs arm back home to Japan as a souvenier personally but I know Im not gonna change your mind, I can tell by your name & avater. :D

:thumbsup

[Beebs]

GSP is more athletic & more explosive but Sakuraba is super relaxed, extremely smart & a better technician in grappling.
Sak also takes the better shot which could be vital too.

You are letting sententalism get in the way of logic, and being totally revisionist.

BJ is just as "relaxed, smart, and technical" on the ground, with a much better stand up game. Saying Sak takes a better shot is exagerating one night when Serra won the lottery and ignoring Nino Schembri doing the same; Sak was also knocked out twice by Wanderlei, but that doesn't really prove anything bad about Sak, but GSP only has the one. Saying Sak actually hits harder is criminal; GSP knocks fighters out, great fighters, Sak did not have even comparable power or skills.

GSP just does everything but hail Mary submissions better, and is a significantly stronger, faster, better athlete in every possible way.

The best case scenario for Sak would be something like the Mezger fight where a well rounded fundamentally sound striker is far too cautious and yet still deserved the win.

I know this comes off as marginalizing a great fighter but it isn't; I think Sak presents a stylistic nightmare for plenty of modern fighters, especially guys whore are from sport grappling or wrestlers who need the takedown, but GSP is not somebody who would have trouble with him in any position.

[Tuffnutz]

GSP no problem.

[Beebs]

The guy tries. He just has nothing special other than wrestling, which is used more to nullify. There is nothing dynamic, or electric, or exciting about him. Strikes are powerful, but quite sloppy.

Compare this guy to Rampage.. I mean what the fuck? What is it that Rampage has that Evans doesn't as far as pedigree, and opportunity? Back when Rampage had almost no standup training, he was a better striker than Rashad. Rampage's wrestling ability is superb, he has what would be considered very good experience, but not a pedigree like Rashad.

I guess I'm just upset that Rampage had the championship taken from him in the first place. He didn't lose that fight with Forrest, and no way in hell do I believe Forrest BEAT Rampage, so I have a feeling, more that Rashad is an illegitimate champ in the first place. I think THIS is why I don't like him. Watching him, just feels like watching a scrub.. Its like watching a scrub, who beat a scrub who was given a gift I guess.

As much as I think Diego Sanchez is a tool, I still recognize he is a dynamic fighter, and I recognize Kos as a dynamic fighter as well. If either of them Got a belt, I wouldn't be so upset. They somehow seem to be more refined/ clean.

Its like the game has gone from looking for victory via counter, or dynamic refined skill, to winning a fight via low risk, low reward exchanges due to the ability to nullify entire skill sets.

So basically you are letting personal feelings on a guy you really know nothing about personally interfere with all evidence and facts to the contrary and won't change your mind no matter what?

It doesn't even make sense; you don't like watching him because he is an illegitimate champion? You've never even seen him as a champion, he has never fought as a champion. If you had never seen Forrest or Rashad on TUF, they came into the UFC without it which they were both qualified to do, and judged them on their accomplishments, would you feel even remotely the same?

The TUF=scrub myth has been destroyed.

[Beebs]

It DOES matter that Sakuraba is a great wrestler & he IS on George`s level.
He had trouble taking Penn down when he was fresh in the 1st rd, Penn is MUCH smaller & NOWHERE NEAR as good a wrestler as Saku,

This is just garbage.

[codeman99998]

GSP by gnp. how would saku take down GSP? yes his single leg td is legendary but gsp stuffs it all day. and i dont think he could submit GSP from the bottom. Pride rules GSP wins by UD. UFC rules (w/ elbows) GSP destroys saku's face.

I think GSP wins by KO in pride rules. It would be easy to him to throw knees to the head, he throws so many knees to the shoulders and body of grounded opponents anyways.

[Bill Butcher]

This is just garbage.

So saying BJ Penn doesnt hit as hard as Sakuraba or isnt as good a wrestler as Sakuraba is garbage ? :huh
You do realise that Sakuraba usually weighed between 180 & 185 dont you ?

Why dont you try taking your head out of your ass, your more than likely one of those ignorant cunts that refuse to accept anyone that never fought in America or the UFC.

Go watch Some Sakuraba fights in his prime then you`ll realise that he`d fuck GSP up big time, he`d dislocate GSPs elbow joint in under 3 rds.

[québecwarrior]

So saying BJ Penn doesnt hit as hard as Sakuraba or isnt as good a wrestler as Sakuraba is garbage ? :huh
You do realise that Sakuraba usually weighed between 180 & 185 dont you ?

Why dont you try taking your head out of your ass, your more than likely one of those ignorant cunts that refuse to accept anyone that never fought in America or the UFC.

Go watch Some Sakuraba fights in his prime then you`ll realise that he`d fuck GSP up big time, he`d dislocate GSPs elbow joint in under 3 rds.
You are more biased than I am:yepI didnt think it was possible.
At least, I can say it that, Fedor would beat GSP:hey

[Tuffnutz]

So saying BJ Penn doesnt hit as hard as Sakuraba or isnt as good a wrestler as Sakuraba is garbage ? :huh
You do realise that Sakuraba usually weighed between 180 & 185 dont you ?

Why dont you try taking your head out of your ass, your more than likely one of those ignorant cunts that refuse to accept anyone that never fought in America or the UFC.

Go watch Some Sakuraba fights in his prime then you`ll realise that he`d fuck GSP up big time, he`d dislocate GSPs elbow joint in under 3 rds.

Saku fought Royce for three day's ffs.

GSP beats him easily.

Saku is too old school for GSP.

Matt Hughes wouldhave beatn Saku.

John fitch and Kos would have beaten him too.

Florian at 155 would beat Saku at 185. :lol:

[Bill Butcher]

Saku fought Royce for three day's ffs.

GSP beats him easily.

Saku is too old school for GSP.

Matt Hughes wouldhave beatn Saku.

John fitch and Kos would have beaten him too.

Florian at 155 would beat Saku at 185. :lol:

Styles make fights, just because Hughes beat Royce in 1 rd & Sak took 1 & half hrs doesnt mean Sak would lose to Hughes.

Your obviously another one that cant see outside the UFC or America, I know your not retarded enough to be serious about the Florian comment so I`ll let that one go.... but I have a feeling you believe the rest of that shit you typed.

Go watch Sakuraba fight..... then feel stupid about the Fitch & Kos comments.
GSP & Hughes I can accept as they are the best ever at 170 tho I 100% disagree that they could beat Sak but the rest of that stuff you wrote makes me think you have been an MMA fan for about 2 yrs tops.

[Grievesy]

I think GSP wins this either by decision or TKO. I'd say he would want to keep this standing where he has the striking advantage and maybe power. TBH neither have/had much pop. GSP would want to avoid the ground as much as possible as Sakuraba could pull subs out of nowhere. If he did go to the ground though he had best be on top where he can GNP otherwise Saku would have subbed him.

Of course with someone like Saku GSP would have to be on top of his game for the whole fight. Just one arm left out or leg left in and Saku would have taken it home with him.

Back to reality though Sakuraba should really retire. It's gone beyond maybe sounding like he's punch drunk, you can see it clearly on his face that he has taken one heavy blow too many.

[Tuffnutz]

Styles make fights, just because Hughes beat Royce in 1 rd & Sak took 1 & half hrs doesnt mean Sak would lose to Hughes.

Your obviously another one that cant see outside the UFC or America, I know your not retarded enough to be serious about the Florian comment so I`ll let that one go.... but I have a feeling you believe the rest of that shit you typed.

Go watch Sakuraba fight..... then feel stupid about the Fitch & Kos comments.
GSP & Hughes I can accept as they are the best ever at 170 tho I 100% disagree that they could beat Sak but the rest of that stuff you wrote makes me think you have been an MMA fan for about 2 yrs tops.

:stir :yep

Seriously, i believe that prime GSP and Hughes would definelty beat a prime Saku.

[ufoalf]

:stir :yep

Seriously, i believe that prime GSP and Hughes would definelty beat a prime Saku.

Ooh, I dunno about Hughes... I think Saku handles hughes.

[Vitor Belfort]

When was the last time you seen prime Sakuraba out-wrestled ?
Even if GSP did get Sak down, it would only be briefly then Sak would be straight back up as he always did (prime.)

Sak hits harder with both hands & feet, can match GSPs wrestling & strength & is a much better submission fighter + has fought & beat the better fighters.

I made this thread so see how short some memories are & they sure are short.

Sakuraba is right up there with Fedor as the best p4p MMA fighter ever, GSP is certainly on the right path but I think Sak would brutalize his legs in the stand up & eventually when they played the ground game, Sak would submit him, he subbed far better BJJ guys than GSP in his time.

GSPs top 2 wins are Penn (LWT) & Hughes (past prime), what would Sak do to those guys ?
Sak has defeated Rampage, Randlemann, Vernon White, Newton, Belfort, 4 Gracies, Ken Shamrock, you name it, he fought them all & only the Gracies didnt have a big size advantage over him, the sport hasnt evolved that much, look at Couture`s dominance in both era`s.

I give GSP little chance vs Sakuraba.

sakuraba is called the Gracie hunter for all his wins vs the gracie's. sakuraba would beat GSP no doubt about it. He has fought strikers before and did well. He got knockout by wanderlei silva but so did a lot of silva's opponent back then did. Silva back then was super human :lol:

Sakuraba has one of the best ground game. i give GSP an advantage on striking but when they are on the ground he will be in trouble with sakuraba. Serra and Penn are very god on the ground but they are smaller than GSP. Sakuraba is taller than both and bigger than Gsp's past opponents.

Prime sakuraba is hard to beat just ask the gracie's :D

[Vitor Belfort]

:stir :yep

Seriously, i believe that prime GSP and Hughes would definelty beat a prime Saku.

just put it this way.. you think gsp and hughes can beat a prime vitor belfort? :nono sakuraba beat a prime belfort

[Bill Butcher]

Yep, he should have retired yrs ago but bad recent fights when he`s shot to fuck doesnt erase what he could do & did do in his prime.

Every fighter should be judged by their prime yrs & Sak was 1 of the best ever, no doubt at all about that.

[Dantes]

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He had incredible strength and explosiveness. And so does GSP.. it would be an interesting matchup as I don't think Sakuraba could bully GSP as he did other opponents...

[ufoalf]

Saku is one of my favorite fighters but GSP is too precise with what he does. It would've definitely been a great fight to watch but I think GSP would win UD.

[Koa]

So basically you are letting personal feelings on a guy you really know nothing about personally interfere with all evidence and facts to the contrary and won't change your mind no matter what?

It doesn't even make sense; you don't like watching him because he is an illegitimate champion? You've never even seen him as a champion, he has never fought as a champion. If you had never seen Forrest or Rashad on TUF, they came into the UFC without it which they were both qualified to do, and judged them on their accomplishments, would you feel even remotely the same?

The TUF=scrub myth has been destroyed.

Its about the calibre of fighter in the light heavy division. I feel completely rational about my opinion. Only, I feel if anything, it should have been Rashad who had the first shot at the championship.

Forrest, hard working dude, nothing at all dynamic about him. Rashad at least has wrestling, but then he's one of those guys who either can't, or wont use it in a dynamic way. He would rather use it as a defensive precaution against takedowns, and wing shots.

The shit is lame, and you know it. That Forrest got the win seemed to be more of a ploy, to get a TUF guy the championship. Its not like Sanchez or Kos, or Stevenson own a belt. I would have no problem with them, regardless of my feelings about their personalities. Some guys are just cocky retards. I actually LIKE Rashad and Forrest as far as personalities go. But their fighting?

[codeman99998]

I think GSP wins this either by decision or TKO. I'd say he would want to keep this standing where he has the striking advantage and maybe power. TBH neither have/had much pop. GSP would want to avoid the ground as much as possible as Sakuraba could pull subs out of nowhere. If he did go to the ground though he had best be on top where he can GNP otherwise Saku would have subbed him.

Of course with someone like Saku GSP would have to be on top of his game for the whole fight. Just one arm left out or leg left in and Saku would have taken it home with him.

Back to reality though Sakuraba should really retire. It's gone beyond maybe sounding like he's punch drunk, you can see it clearly on his face that he has taken one heavy blow too many.

Not much pop? GSP is one of the best strikers in MMA history for Christ's sake! SERIOUSLY! With one exception, he has never been outstruck in a fight that I have seen, and he has spectacular KO wins on his resume.

[Sweet Pea]

GSP would give him an ass-beating.

[Tuffnutz]

just put it this way.. you think gsp and hughes can beat a prime vitor belfort? :nono sakuraba beat a prime belfort

GSP and Hughes are'nt Belfort though are they.

Also, Belfort is the most up and down, hot and cold fighter in the game.

[québecwarrior]

GSP and Hughes are'nt Belfort though are they.

Also, Belfort is the most up and down, hot and cold fighter in the game.
his MMAths logic is just plain stupid.
Jardine defeated Liddell, Wandy defeated Jardine and Liddell defeated Wandy..

[Beebs]

So saying BJ Penn doesnt hit as hard as Sakuraba or isnt as good a wrestler as Sakuraba is garbage ? :huh
You do realise that Sakuraba usually weighed between 180 & 185 dont you ?

Why dont you try taking your head out of your ass, your more than likely one of those ignorant cunts that refuse to accept anyone that never fought in America or the UFC.

Go watch Some Sakuraba fights in his prime then you`ll realise that he`d fuck GSP up big time, he`d dislocate GSPs elbow joint in under 3 rds.

Yes, it is absolute garbage, it is letting sentamentalis
cloud your judgement.

BJ has knocked out great fighters time and time again; Din Thomas, Kondo, Sherk, and knocked Hughes stupid leading to the choke. Sakuraba carrying 15 pounds of extra fat does not make him hit harder in any possible way, he has never changed a fight with his power.

The Gracies had a reputation that Sak turned on his head, but looking at them as fighters and individuals, rather than "Gracie Family members" do you actually consider Royce, Renzo, Royler, and Ryan to be top of the line fighters at the time? Royler and Ryan especially?

Sakuraba changed the game by being a different type of fighter and used a different looking style. Since then though alot of different people have had a lot of different styles and they have all eventually been assimilated.

GSP is nothing like the gracies; him vs Sak is going to look pretty similar to Arona vs Sak. No GSP isn't as big as Arona, but he is big enough.

Not to even mention that we really don't know if we have seen a prime GSP, he has gotten significantly better every time we see him. He looked much better against Hughes each time he fought him, he was better still against Fitch and BJ and will almost certainly be better still against Thiago.

[Bill Butcher]

Yes, it is absolute garbage, it is letting sentamentalis
cloud your judgement.

BJ has knocked out great fighters time and time again; Din Thomas, Kondo, Sherk, and knocked Hughes stupid leading to the choke. Sakuraba carrying 15 pounds of extra fat does not make him hit harder in any possible way, he has never changed a fight with his power.

The Gracies had a reputation that Sak turned on his head, but looking at them as fighters and individuals, rather than "Gracie Family members" do you actually consider Royce, Renzo, Royler, and Ryan to be top of the line fighters at the time? Royler and Ryan especially?

1. It wasnt just BEATING the Gracies, it was the WAY he beat them, he beat them all decisevely when nobody else had.

2. Din Thomas ? Kondo ? Sherk ? Hughes ?
I admit Hughes is 1 of the best ever AT WELTERWEIGHT, not 185 but seriously, what a party Sakuraba would have vs the rest of that lot.
Compare those opponents to prime Sakuraba`s opponents, GSP still has a lot to do.

[Bill Butcher]

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He had incredible strength and explosiveness. And so does GSP.. it would be an interesting matchup as I don't think Sakuraba could bully GSP as he did other opponents...

I actually see it vice versa, I think its GSP that needs to be the bully in fights, the stronger & more explosive guy.... Sakuraba`s game is patience & technique.
Sak was used to fighting big guys that he could not match strength with, his other skills got the job done.
Look at GSP just before he became the great fighter he is now but still good in the 1st Hughes fight, vs a guy he couldnt man-handle, he looked lost & was beaten decisevely.
I think Sak & GSP not being able to man-handle each other will definitely have the more negative effect on George, that leads to mistakes & Sak is the man to punish mistakes.

Ps. Great highlight video, I seen this on youtube but I dont know how to post links so thanks for that.

:good

[Bill Butcher]

just put it this way.. you think gsp and hughes can beat a prime vitor belfort? :nono sakuraba beat a prime belfort

Yep, definitely.

Belfort would brutalize Hughes & GSP.
I know styles make fights but Vitor isnt the only Saku victim that would BADLY trouble GSP & Hughes.

MMA fans have short memories, Sak in his prime was being called the greatest MMA fighter that ever lived, now 6 or 7 yrs down the line Matt Hughes & GSP would ass-whip him ? :-(

Give me a fuckin break, no contact sport evolves that fast, if it did then Ali & Robinson would be WAY down the p4p lists.

Use your heads guys.

[Grievesy]

Not much pop? GSP is one of the best strikers in MMA history for Christ's sake! SERIOUSLY! With one exception, he has never been outstruck in a fight that I have seen, and he has spectacular KO wins on his resume.

I said he doesn't have much power, not that his striking isn't good.

He does have very good technical striking. He is dynamic. But he does not have much power. Most of his TKO wins are GNP wins, with the exception of the Hughes TKO with a head kick and the Hieron TKO. Please show me some more of these spectacular KOs.

[AJAX]

GSPs only chance to beat Sakuraba is to get the takedown & work from the guard but even then I dont see Sak staying on the bottom for long, he was hardly ever on the bottom in his prime, I strongly doubt George could even out-wrestle Sak, he used to give his back to high level BJJ guys & go for the kimura & roll for leglocks & stuff but he was never dominated on the ground & I wouldnt be 1 bit suprised to see Sak take GSP down & beat the shit out of him from GSPs guard waiting for a mistake & boom, armbar.

Ive seen every single Sakuraba fight in his prime, from the HWT tourney fight in UFC Japan 97 were he armbarred the massive Conan Silvera to the 2nd Wand Silva fight, Ive seen many more like vs Randlemann, Nogueira, Arona etc but his prime was between the Silvera & Wand 2nd fight, after that he was in bad decline.

That version of Sakuraba would hand GSP his ass.


When you come down from whatever cloud your on let me know. What's with this obsession with Saku? he was a great fighter but the guy has more loses then I can count on my hands and has been on the wrong end of highlight reel KO's.

you can talk would of should of could of all you want because it will never really happen so your fantasy matchup and victory over GSP are just words from a dilusional poster...nothing more:dead

[Beebs]

1. It wasnt just BEATING the Gracies, it was the WAY he beat them, he beat them all decisevely when nobody else had.

2. Din Thomas ? Kondo ? Sherk ? Hughes ?
I admit Hughes is 1 of the best ever AT WELTERWEIGHT, not 185 but seriously, what a party Sakuraba would have vs the rest of that lot.
Compare those opponents to prime Sakuraba`s opponents, GSP still has a lot to do.

Those guys are all proven strikers that BJ knocked out, something Sakuraba never did. Hughes obviously isn't a great strker on his feet, but BJ delivered that on the ground on top of Hughes, when has sakuraba ever changed a fight with a punch of any kind?

Yes Saku was the first to beat the gracies like that, but immediately after look at their careers. Sak matched up with certain fighters extremely well, mainly pure BJJ guys, which Vitor became AFTER HE BROKE HIS HAND.

[Grievesy]

Why the fuck were GSP and Hughes put against Vitor in this thread? Vitor is a middleweight ffs and has spent most of his career at LHW.

[Bill Butcher]

Why the fuck were GSP and Hughes put against Vitor in this thread? Vitor is a middleweight ffs and has spent most of his career at LHW.

Someone just said imagine Hughes or GSP vs a prime Belfort then mentioned the fact that Sakuraba beat a prime Belfort despite being the clearly smaller man.... & he beat him hands down.

:good

[Bill Butcher]

Those guys are all proven strikers that BJ knocked out, something Sakuraba never did. Hughes obviously isn't a great strker on his feet, but BJ delivered that on the ground on top of Hughes, when has sakuraba ever changed a fight with a punch of any kind?

Yes Saku was the first to beat the gracies like that, but immediately after look at their careers. Sak matched up with certain fighters extremely well, mainly pure BJJ guys, which Vitor became AFTER HE BROKE HIS HAND.

1. They were SMALL proven strikers... how can I get this thru your head, Sak is a MWT & punches & kicks harder than BJ Penn, maybe not in a p4p sense (debatable) but were talking h2h.
2. Vitor did break his hand, he broke it on Saku`s head after raining down on him with about 30 punches, Saku waited patiently then single legged him down to his home - the ground.
Sak got him were he wanted BEFORE the hand became a factor, a win is a win, if he wasnt in there vs Sakuraba he wouldnt have broke his hand, it was a good performance by KS.

[Bill Butcher]

When you come down from whatever cloud your on let me know. What's with this obsession with Saku? he was a great fighter but the guy has more loses then I can count on my hands and has been on the wrong end of highlight reel KO's.

you can talk would of should of could of all you want because it will never really happen so your fantasy matchup and victory over GSP are just words from a dilusional poster...nothing more:dead

Where do I start with this cunt ?... let me see....

Does the word PRIME exist in your vocabulary ?
You tell me just how many losses & wrong end highlight reels Sakuraba was involved in before the age of 31.... NONE is the answer your looking for & this from a man who ALWAYS fought the best & ALWAYS fought LHWTs, sometimes MWTs, sometimes WWTs, sometimes HWTs but mostly LHWTs.

GSP is still in his prime yrs, lets see what kind of form he brings to the table after the age of 30 & countless hard fights..... will you try discredit all the victories of the real GSP, the prime GSP by pointing out later losses that would never have happened ?
The answer is NO, would you fuck.

Sakuraba is a legend of MMA & a top 5 p4per, GSP still has a fair bit to go before making such claims, I aint the delusional one pal.

:thumbsup

[ufoalf]

I aint the delusional one pal.

:thumbsup


On the contrary... defending something imaginary with such... lets call it passion...

[Beebs]

1. They were SMALL proven strikers... how can I get this thru your head, Sak is a MWT & punches & kicks harder than BJ Penn, maybe not in a p4p sense (debatable) but were talking h2h.
2. Vitor did break his hand, he broke it on Saku`s head after raining down on him with about 30 punches, Saku waited patiently then single legged him down to his home - the ground.
Sak got him were he wanted BEFORE the hand became a factor, a win is a win, if he wasnt in there vs Sakuraba he wouldnt have broke his hand, it was a good performance by KS.

BJ is a much harder puncher, it is not even remotely close. Saki has never landed a punch that could break an egg; Pavlik is smaller than ruiz, does that mean ruiz hits harder? Hunt is much larger than manhoef.

Sak is "bigger", but he is flabby and could easily fight at welter if he didn't insist on portraying the typically childish charcter to the Japanese fans. He does not show up in shape and his physical preperation is flat out embarrasing

Any supposed size advatage of sake is completly useless, he is not a profesional athlete, he does not prepare his body like a pro, and neither did any of the gravies. Compare that to GSP who is the pinaccle of profesionalsm and the most athletic fighter in the world. Sak is not bigger, he has no e of the advantages of being bigger; he is weaker, slower, out of shape, not prepared, no reach advatage, horrible power, horrible striking technique, horrible striking period, and a much much much worse wrestler.

So he has no control of where the fight would go, zero to offer standing, and would have to submit from the bottom, something nobody has ever done to gsp; sakus guard game has never been his strength where gsp has the best top control in the world.

Two ways for the fight to go; gsp easily prevents the takedown and just murders him on the feet like wandy did several times, or he smothers him on the ground beating him into a near coma lime arona did.

[jimmie]

Where do I start with this cunt ?... let me see....

Does the word PRIME exist in your vocabulary ?
You tell me just how many losses & wrong end highlight reels Sakuraba was involved in before the age of 31.... NONE is the answer your looking for & this from a man who ALWAYS fought the best & ALWAYS fought LHWTs, sometimes MWTs, sometimes WWTs, sometimes HWTs but mostly LHWTs.

GSP is still in his prime yrs, lets see what kind of form he brings to the table after the age of 30 & countless hard fights..... will you try discredit all the victories of the real GSP, the prime GSP by pointing out later losses that would never have happened ?
The answer is NO, would you fuck.

Sakuraba is a legend of MMA & a top 5 p4per, GSP still has a fair bit to go before making such claims, I aint the delusional one pal.

:thumbsup

GSP will be do just fine after 31 because he takes care of his body and stays in shape year round slowing down the aging process. Sakuraba never trained hard and never evolved in the manner in which GSP has theres a difference between well rounded and a complete fighter that is these 2 guys.

[MaliSlamusrex]

I agree when Sakuraba fought, the financial gains were not so high as they are now, when Sakuraba fought in MMA he still worked as a pro wrestler to support himself. Sakuraba didn't really work on his conditioning and didn't have different coaches like GSP is doing. Sakuraba did not evolve because at the time he was good enough and the sport was developing. This is why i think P4P best ever MMA fighters is imposssible to make because the sport is still developing.

GSP will be do just fine after 31 because he takes care of his body and stays in shape year round slowing down the aging process. Sakuraba never trained hard and never evolved in the manner in which GSP has theres a difference between well rounded and a complete fighter that is these 2 guys.

[Polymath]

Sakuraba would never be blasted out by Matt Serra :yep

[Bill Butcher]

BJ is a much harder puncher, it is not even remotely close. Saki has never landed a punch that could break an egg; Pavlik is smaller than ruiz, does that mean ruiz hits harder? Hunt is much larger than manhoef.

Sak is "bigger", but he is flabby and could easily fight at welter if he didn't insist on portraying the typically childish charcter to the Japanese fans. He does not show up in shape and his physical preperation is flat out embarrasing

Any supposed size advatage of sake is completly useless, he is not a profesional athlete, he does not prepare his body like a pro, and neither did any of the gravies. Compare that to GSP who is the pinaccle of profesionalsm and the most athletic fighter in the world. Sak is not bigger, he has no e of the advantages of being bigger; he is weaker, slower, out of shape, not prepared, no reach advatage, horrible power, horrible striking technique, horrible striking period, and a much much much worse wrestler.

So he has no control of where the fight would go, zero to offer standing, and would have to submit from the bottom, something nobody has ever done to gsp; sakus guard game has never been his strength where gsp has the best top control in the world.

Two ways for the fight to go; gsp easily prevents the takedown and just murders him on the feet like wandy did several times, or he smothers him on the ground beating him into a near coma lime arona did.

You are truly a retard, you know NOTHING about mixed martial arts.

[Bill Butcher]

GSP will be do just fine after 31 because he takes care of his body and stays in shape year round slowing down the aging process. Sakuraba never trained hard and never evolved in the manner in which GSP has theres a difference between well rounded and a complete fighter that is these 2 guys.

Time will tell... hard fights wear your body down too no matter how healthy you live or how much you train.

Ps. Sakuraba trained EXTREMELY hard in his prime, he is shot to shit now tho.

[Bill Butcher]

Sakuraba would never be blasted out by Matt Serra :yep

Ssshhhhh

We`re not allowed to mention that fight, Gsp wasnt well prepaired + he is flavour of the month after beating the LWT champion... he`s the greatest.

:lol:

Ive had a good laugh with this thread.

[Beebs]

Sakuraba would never be blasted out by Matt Serra :yep

Apparantly you aren't familiar with Nino Schembri.

[Beebs]

Ssshhhhh

We`re not allowed to mention that fight, Gsp wasnt well prepaired + he is flavour of the month after beating the LWT champion... he`s the greatest.

:lol:

Ive had a good laugh with this thread.

Can we mention Nino Schembri? You seem to have forgotten that when saying Sakurba takes a better shot.

[Bill Butcher]

Can we mention Nino Schembri? You seem to have forgotten that when saying Sakurba takes a better shot.

Im truly starting to feel that you have mental problems.

GSP was sparked by a PUNCH in his PRIME by Matt Serra... Saku was sparked by SEVERAL KNEES while being a fair bit PAST HIS PRIME.

The Sakuraba you saw being stopped by Schembri is not the same guy that we are putting in there vs peak GSP, dont be crazy, Sak would get crushed.... its both guys at their best & Sak takes his arm back to Japan... too big to be man-handled & too good on the ground.

[Beebs]

Im truly starting to feel that you have mental problems.

GSP was sparked by a PUNCH in his PRIME by Matt Serra... Saku was sparked by SEVERAL KNEES while being a fair bit PAST HIS PRIME.

The Sakuraba you saw being stopped by Schembri is not the same guy that we are putting in there vs peak GSP, dont be crazy, Sak would get crushed.... its both guys at their best & Sak takes his arm back to Japan... too big to be man-handled & too good on the ground.

It was two fluke knockouts, the difference being Matt Serra is at least somewhat accomplished in MMA.

This is rediculous, fine, Sakuraba beats everybody all the time for the rest of history, all of his losses were out of his prime or (insert excuse) and all of his wins were the greatest in the history of the sport because of (insert ridiculous grandstanding)

Sounds like Tyson cult members.

[ufoalf]

24 vs 9

There are 24 of us who no NOTHING about MMA and the exceptional few who are MMA historians over here. Bow down bitches.

[Polymath]

GSP got knocked out by a midget who can't punch. :lol: Like Waldo being battered by Corrie Sanders, I'll never forget that :lol:

[chimba]

24 vs 9

There are 24 of us who no NOTHING about MMA and the exceptional few who are MMA historians over here. Bow down bitches.

Yes I mean its 24 to 9.. Thats a drubbing. Mercy. I love them polls.

Lets just hope GSP wins against Alves

[codeman99998]

Where do I start with this cunt ?... let me see....

Does the word PRIME exist in your vocabulary ?
You tell me just how many losses & wrong end highlight reels Sakuraba was involved in before the age of 31.... NONE is the answer your looking for & this from a man who ALWAYS fought the best & ALWAYS fought LHWTs, sometimes MWTs, sometimes WWTs, sometimes HWTs but mostly LHWTs.

GSP is still in his prime yrs, lets see what kind of form he brings to the table after the age of 30 & countless hard fights..... will you try discredit all the victories of the real GSP, the prime GSP by pointing out later losses that would never have happened ?
The answer is NO, would you fuck.

Sakuraba is a legend of MMA & a top 5 p4per, GSP still has a fair bit to go before making such claims, I aint the delusional one pal.

:thumbsup

If we are going to examine Saku's record before he was 31 than let's do it!

Let's see... we got a win over Marcus Silveira... whoever that is.
Vernon White... means nothing.
He beat Carlos Newton. That's good. He beat Allan Goes, Vitor, Royler, and Royce, and a couple nobodies.

Not bad.

Now let's look at Georges St. Pierre's record before HE was 31.

Penn twice.
Hughes twice.
Fitch.
Koscheck.
Parisyan.
1-1 dominant rematch victory over Serra.
Frank Trigg
Sean Sherk


yeah... Their primes are comparable...:lol:

[chimba]

If we are going to examine Saku's record before he was 31 than let's do it!

Let's see... we got a win over Marcus Silveira... whoever that is.
Vernon White... means nothing.
He beat Carlos Newton. That's good. He beat Allan Goes, Vitor, Royler, and Royce, and a couple nobodies.

Not bad.

Now let's look at Georges St. Pierre's record before HE was 31.

Penn twice.
Hughes twice.
Fitch.
Koscheck.
Parisyan.
1-1 dominant rematch victory over Serra.
Frank Trigg
Sean Sherk


yeah... Their primes are comparable...:lol:

I dont know how long youve been watching MMA but those resumes are competitive. I must say Im leaning towards Saku. Conan was a tough Heavyweight. Royce was undefeated still, Goes was one of Carlsons best students. Vitors vitor. Can you imagine, St. Pierre and a 24 year old 200 pound Vitor. Saku alse defeated Rampage!

And check this out. Sakus smaller than GSP.

But anyway, the poll favors GSP

[codeman99998]

I dont know how long youve been watching MMA but those resumes are competitive. I must say Im leaning towards Saku. Conan was a tough Heavyweight. Royce was undefeated still, Goes was one of Carlsons best students. Vitors vitor. Can you imagine, St. Pierre and a 24 year old 200 pound Vitor. Saku alse defeated Rampage!

And check this out. Sakus smaller than GSP.

But anyway, the poll favors GSP

Royce lost to Hughes and, frankly, would have lost to many of the fighters that St. Pierre beat.

I misspoke, Saku only DREW with Goes anyways.

Conan was 3-1 losing to Maurice Smith before losing to Saku. He later avenged that loss and lost to Dan Severn and Wes Sims. Not a bad career, but nothing of incredible note.

Sure, Vitor is Vitor. It's a good win... but one win doesn't compare to the many wins over great fighters by GSP.

Saku defeated Rampage after his 31st birthday so I did not include it.

Also, did I mention GSP still has 4 years until he turns 31?

[chimba]

Royce lost to Hughes and, frankly, would have lost to many of the fighters that St. Pierre beat.

I misspoke, Saku only DREW with Goes anyways.

Conan was 3-1 losing to Maurice Smith before losing to Saku. He later avenged that loss and lost to Dan Severn and Wes Sims. Not a bad career, but nothing of incredible note.

Sure, Vitor is Vitor. It's a good win... but one win doesn't compare to the many wins over great fighters by GSP.

Saku defeated Rampage after his 31st birthday so I did not include it.

Also, did I mention GSP still has 4 years until he turns 31?

The Royce of today doesnt compare to the one Saku fought. The Hughes that GSP defeated are past prime. The last one shot.

Hughes prime was the one that fought Penn. Koscheck, Fitch, Karo. Sorry you cant compare these guys to Renzo alone. At the time Renzo was a fuckin beast. Serra lol please..GSP dominated him in the second fight but Serra owned him in the first. BJ I give him that, hes a LW but its probably GSPs best win.

Heres the difference, GSP fights mostly smaller opponents while Saku fights LHWs

Anyway the poll says GSP, cant argue with polls.

[Beebs]

I dont know how long youve been watching MMA but those resumes are competitive. I must say Im leaning towards Saku. Conan was a tough Heavyweight. Royce was undefeated still, Goes was one of Carlsons best students. Vitors vitor. Can you imagine, St. Pierre and a 24 year old 200 pound Vitor. Saku alse defeated Rampage!

And check this out. Sakus smaller than GSP.

But anyway, the poll favors GSP

It is a hard comparison to make really.

For GSP, almost everybody he fought was either a champion or a contender, but they were all his weight class or smaller.

Trigg was considered the second best in the world at 170
Sherk was still considered the 3rd.
BJ had never lost the UFC belt in the ring after beating Hughes.
Hughes was the most succesful fighter as a champion in MMA.
Koscheck was a top 5 guy, and more importantly probably the second best guy in wrestling, which is probably the most vital aspect in regards to GSP.
Fitch was the obvious #2, and really still is.
BJ again was the undisputed dominant champ of 155.

So really it is apples and oranges, on one hand you have Very good to great fighters that are bigger, on the other hand you have the best fighters in the world at the same weight.

Comparing the two is difficult, but in a head to head fight, both men are roughly the same size, yes Sakuraba weighs slightly more, but certainly has less muscle mass and strength; in reality in terms of lean body mass GSP is bigger, Sakuraba is 2 inches taller at most.

Since they are the same size, their ability to fight bigger fighters isn't really the issue; who can beat who's opponents is not what is going to decide the fight, how GSP would do against Sakuraba's opponents is not relevant to how he would do against Sakuraba. Head to head, GSP has better takedowns than Sakuraba has takedown defense, better takedown defense than Sakuraba has takedowns, better striking, better ground and pound, and has only been submitted once, and even that was outside of his absolute prime, which seems to make it irrelevant in your mind.

[Beebs]

The Royce of today doesnt compare to the one Saku fought. The Hughes that GSP defeated are past prime. The last one shot.

Hughes prime was the one that fought Penn. Koscheck, Fitch, Karo. Sorry you cant compare these guys to Renzo alone. At the time Renzo was a fuckin beast. Serra lol please..GSP dominated him in the second fight but Serra owned him in the first. BJ I give him that, hes a LW but its probably GSPs best win.

Heres the difference, GSP fights mostly smaller opponents while Saku fights LHWs

Anyway the poll says GSP, cant argue with polls.

Hughes fought BJ2 and GSP2 2 months apart; he was prime in one and past his prime 2 months later?

Renzo was coming off a loss to Tamura of all people.

Serra is a better loss than Schembri.

I hate sounding so negative about Sakuraba, but there is a fine line between giving him his proper respect as a legend, and changing history as we see fit to make him appear even greater.

[chimba]

It is a hard comparison to make really.

For GSP, almost everybody he fought was either a champion or a contender, but they were all his weight class or smaller.

Trigg was considered the second best in the world at 170
Sherk was still considered the 3rd.
BJ had never lost the UFC belt in the ring after beating Hughes.
Hughes was the most succesful fighter as a champion in MMA.
Koscheck was a top 5 guy, and more importantly probably the second best guy in wrestling, which is probably the most vital aspect in regards to GSP.
Fitch was the obvious #2, and really still is.
BJ again was the undisputed dominant champ of 155.

So really it is apples and oranges, on one hand you have Very good to great fighters that are bigger, on the other hand you have the best fighters in the world at the same weight.

Comparing the two is difficult, but in a head to head fight, both men are roughly the same size, yes Sakuraba weighs slightly more, but certainly has less muscle mass and strength; in reality in terms of lean body mass GSP is bigger, Sakuraba is 2 inches taller at most.

Since they are the same size, their ability to fight bigger fighters isn't really the issue; who can beat who's opponents is not what is going to decide the fight, how GSP would do against Sakuraba's opponents is not relevant to how he would do against Sakuraba. Head to head, GSP has better takedowns than Sakuraba has takedown defense, better takedown defense than Sakuraba has takedowns, better striking, better ground and pound, and has only been submitted once, and even that was outside of his absolute prime, which seems to make it irrelevant in your mind.

I said its comparable as far as resume. Its very hard to compare like you said since Saku was a very late entry into MMA. He was 27 (as old as GSP now when he started). Outside of prime, I dont think anyone can compare with Sakus resume whether he won or lost. He had the best level of opposition in MMAs history. Sakus status can only get better and GSP can still improve his but he can also damage it.

Like I said on paper, GSP. I agree with the poll.

[Vitor Belfort]

Why the fuck were GSP and Hughes put against Vitor in this thread? Vitor is a middleweight ffs and has spent most of his career at LHW.

cuz the thread says GSP vs sakuraba and sakuraba is a middleweight:good so i used vitor as an example.

[Beebs]

A great analogy can be made with Koaklai of K1; nobody else his size is going to be a competitive heavyweight, he could probably make 155 and fight in max. The guys in max are obviously not going to be able to handle the heavyweights with the success that Koallai had, but Baukaw would tear him to shreds in a head to head fight; handling larger fighters better than somebody your size really has little bearing on if you can beat the guy your size who has beat the best in the world at his size.

[chimba]

In Fairness to Saku, no one at the time could have beaten him at 170. Not even Hughes, which I think he would have submitted. BTW you cant compare kickboxing to this. Thats a sport that relies more on skills and specific techniques as compared to MMA. Being able to get used to different or bigger bodies wrestling or any type of newaza beit JJ or Judo helps your body adapt and is certainly advantageous (strengthwise) against smaller guys. This is why Saku was able to manhandle guys his size like Renzo and totally manhandle smaller guys like Royler

[Bill Butcher]

The Royce of today doesnt compare to the one Saku fought. The Hughes that GSP defeated are past prime. The last one shot.

Hughes prime was the one that fought Penn. Koscheck, Fitch, Karo. Sorry you cant compare these guys to Renzo alone. At the time Renzo was a fuckin beast. Serra lol please..GSP dominated him in the second fight but Serra owned him in the first. BJ I give him that, hes a LW but its probably GSPs best win.

Heres the difference, GSP fights mostly smaller opponents while Saku fights LHWs

Anyway the poll says GSP, cant argue with polls.

All true, both Sak & GSP are great fighters but people are still stuck in the moment after GSPs dominating victory over Penn, what if Alves knocks George out ?... just let him prove himself a little more before calling him the GOAT is all Im saying.

Ps. you cant argue with polls but you can certainly put straight a few delusional posters that have been following MMA for about 8 months & start talking shit about 1 of the best ever MMA fighters (Sakuraba of course.)

[Vitor Belfort]

The Royce of today doesnt compare to the one Saku fought. The Hughes that GSP defeated are past prime. The last one shot.

Hughes prime was the one that fought Penn. Koscheck, Fitch, Karo. Sorry you cant compare these guys to Renzo alone. At the time Renzo was a fuckin beast. Serra lol please..GSP dominated him in the second fight but Serra owned him in the first. BJ I give him that, hes a LW but its probably GSPs best win.

Heres the difference, GSP fights mostly smaller opponents while Saku fights LHWs

Anyway the poll says GSP, cant argue with polls.

exactly i give GSP props for beating those guys but the guys sakuraba beat are legends.
Here's a list of sakuraba's opponents
defeated
allan goes
carlos newton
vitor belfort
royler gracie
guy mezger
royce gracie
renzo graice
ryan gracie
rampage jackson
kevin randleman
ken shamrock
ikuhisa minowa

loss to much bigger guys
Kimo
Igor Vovchanchyn
wanderlei siklva 2x
mirko crocop
antonio rogerio noguiera
ricardo arona
royce gracie--tested positive with drugs in system.. plus it was a 39 yrs old sakuraba


look at the guys he loss too... much bigger than he is.. put GSP against the middleweight and lets see how he does. SAKURABA "GRACIE HUNTER" is a fucking beast. They go head to head -sakuraba will fuck GSP's world up.

close thread :rofl

[Boyd]

i think GSP would do just fine against most 185 pounders

[codeman99998]

All true, both Sak & GSP are great fighters but people are still stuck in the moment after GSPs dominating victory over Penn, what if Alves knocks George out ?... just let him prove himself a little more before calling him the GOAT is all Im saying.

Ps. you cant argue with polls but you can certainly put straight a few delusional posters that have been following MMA for about 8 months & start talking shit about 1 of the best ever MMA fighters (Sakuraba of course.)

Yep. That's it. If you think GSP would beat him, that's "talking shit" about Saku. And yes, most of the people who think GSP would win have only been following MMA for 8 months!

SET THEM STRAIGHT!

[Minotauro]

GSP is probablly the most complete fighter in MMA history and I can say without any doubt hes more complete then Sakuraba not to mention he clearly trains harder and would have worked on a perfect gameplan with coach Greg Jackson. Sakuraba would have a submission fighters chance but GSP at this stage is very good at nullifying a guys submission game anyone who knows anything about grappling knows how accomplished BJ Penn and Matt Serra are and look at what they did vs GSP nothing blank nadda hell BJ couldnt accomplish much in the 1st fight on the ground either. GSP now is much more improved from the guy who got armbarred by Hughes then in ADCC 2005.

Now sure, and maybe on the surface it might look like he trained harder then a prime Saku (Saku is like a chain smoker) but I highly doubt GSP could go 90 minutes with a top fighter his size and then take the most dangerous heavyweight striker the distance to a draw. That is like GSP going 90 minutes with a top welter and then going 15 with a top 5 heavy who could take hs head off like a short AA. That is what Saku did in the 2000 GP. I think a prime Saku would sub GSP while Pierre ground game is very good it is nowhere near Royler or Renzo level and he subbed both of those two.

[ufoalf]

Yes I mean its 24 to 9.. Thats a drubbing. Mercy. I love them polls.

Lets just hope GSP wins against Alves
I know right. Especially when you ask the right people who are actually knowledgeable about the sport.

[chimba]

I know right. Especially when you ask the right people who are actually knowledgeable about the sport.


I know, they should know that this MMA forum is the bastion of knowledge.

MMA questions/polls should be separated from general questions. General questions I tend to put in the lounge.

[ufoalf]

I know, they should know that this MMA forum is the bastion of knowledge.

MMA questions/polls should be separated from general questions. General questions I tend to put in the lounge.

I'm glad you acknowledge the fact that most of the people are still not familiar with MMA.

[chimba]

I'm glad you acknowledge the fact that most of the people are still not familiar with MMA.

Im not sure about that, MMA is very popular, moreso than boxing now. Have you seen the PPV numbers? Turn on Spike TV, its all there. Alot of people are casual fans of it, just like they are casual fans of the NFL or Hockey.

For example in the lounge many are casual fans of all sports, its a perfect place to make polls where people are not biased either way.

I can make a poll that states is MMA good or bad? in the MMA forum but that kinda defeats the purpose right?

[ufoalf]

Im not sure about that, MMA is very popular, moreso than boxing now. Have you seen the PPV numbers? Turn on Spike TV, its all there. Alot of people are casual fans of it, just like they are casual fans of the NFL or Hockey.

For example in the lounge many are casual fans of all sports, its a perfect place to make polls where people are not biased either way.

I can make a poll that states is MMA good or bad? in the MMA forum but that kinda defeats the purpose right?

lol, chill bro. I dunno why you even bring this shit up again. You still feel sore or what? Go get a release, drink a brew or rub one out or w/e. :dead

[chimba]

lol, chill bro. I dunno why you even bring this shit up again. You still feel sore or what? Go get a release, drink a brew or rub one out or w/e. :dead

Ill chill out at the end of the month. Anyways if GSP loses against Alves, lets redo this poll

[québecwarrior]

Ill chill out at the end of the month. Anyways if GSP loses against Alves, lets redo this poll
Oh right, Thiago Alves and Sakuraba are the exact same fughter, so if GSP lose to him, he would lose to Sakuraba. Yeah right

[Boyd]

Ill chill out at the end of the month. Anyways if GSP loses against Alves, lets redo this polli just saw that this fight will be the main event for UFC 100!

[chimba]

i just saw that this fight will be the main event for UFC 100!

If thats true, thats a letdown.

For UFC 100.. All the Champs should be defending

[Boyd]

If thats true, thats a letdown.

For UFC 100.. All the Champs should be defendingit said bisping vs henderson too. and the TUF 9 finale. plus one other really big fight. doesn't sound like they are "going all out" for UFC 100.

[Bill Butcher]

Oh right, Thiago Alves and Sakuraba are the exact same fughter, so if GSP lose to him, he would lose to Sakuraba. Yeah right

Not necessarily but the fact that Sakuraba is a better fighter skillwise & fought at & beat guys at higher weights than Alves means that we might know a little more about this Sak/GSP match.... after all, thats why we`ve came to the conclusions about who would win already... because of the fights both have had.
If GSP loses to Alves, it must be need for concern how this version would do vs Sak, a guy who never ever (in his prime yrs) lost to a MWT, never mind a WWT such as Alves.

:good

[Beebs]

Not necessarily but the fact that Sakuraba is a better fighter skillwise & fought at & beat guys at higher weights than Alves means that we might know a little more about this Sak/GSP match.... after all, thats why we`ve came to the conclusions about who would win already... because of the fights both have had.
If GSP loses to Alves, it must be need for concern how this version would do vs Sak, a guy who never ever (in his prime yrs) lost to a MWT, never mind a WWT such as Alves.

:good

That really does not make sense at all; Thiago is about as polar opposite as Sakuraba as there is. What you are talking about is who had the greater career, the better legacy, all good things to talk about but completly different than who would win a fight.

[Polymath]

Ill chill out at the end of the month. Anyways if GSP loses against Alves, lets redo this poll

You menstruating?

[chimba]

You menstruating?

yep

[Rattler]

GSP : tko-4

[Bill Butcher]

Sakuraba via armbar rd 3