Top 400 All Time Greats

[trampie]

1] Sugar Ray Robinson
2] Henry Armstrong
3] Langford
4] Greb
5] Duran
6] B.Leonard
7] Wilde
8] Ali
9] Louis
10] Pep
11] Charles
12] Fitzsimmons
13] Gans
14] R.Leonard
15] Hagler
16] Walker
17] Moore
18] Jofre
19] Tunney
20] Jack Johnson
21] Monzon
22] Whitaker
23] B.Ross
24] Saddler
25] Canzoneri
26] Salvador Sanchez
27] Babadoes Joe Walcott
28] Ketchel
29] I.Williams
30] Burley
31] Marciano
32] Jack Dempsey
33] Roy Jones Jnr
34] Holmes
35] Dixon
36] Cesar Charvez
37] E.Griffith
38] Arguello
39] Holyfield
40] Kid Gavilan
41] Hearns
42] Napoles
43] Packey McFarland
44] Freddie Welsh
45] Driscoll
46] C.Ortiz
47] L.Lewis
48] Mayweather Jnr
49] Harada
50] Britton
51] Olivares
52] M.Spinks
53] Calzaghe
54] Hopkins
55] Wills
56] W.Gomez
57] foster
58] Loughran
59] LM Rodriquez
60] Villa
61] Al Brown
62] M.Ortiz
63] Dick Tiger
64] Conn
65] Attell
66] Pascual Perez
67] Canto
68] McGovern
69] Ted Kid Lewis
70] Kid Chocolate
71] Joe Brown
72] Tiger Flower
73] Cerdan
74] Jeffries
75] Basilio
76] McLarnin
77] T.Ryan
78] Beau Jack
79] Angott
80] Pryer
81] McCallum
82] W.Benitez
83] De La Hoya
84] Billy Graham
85] Gibbons
86] Kilbane
87] Blackburn
88] Ambers
89] Tyson
90] H.Williams
91] Liston
92] Herman
93] Philly Jack O'Brien
94] Loi
95] Cervantes
96] Zarate
97] Giardello
98] Trinidad
99] Buchanan
100]Laguna
101]Montgomery
102]Barrera
103]Dundee
104]Zale
105]Vicente Salvador
106]LaBarba
107]Kid Williams
108]Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
109]Elorde
110]Genero
111]Battling Nelson
112]Rosenbloom
113]La Motta
114]Foreman
115]Frazier
116]R.Lopez
117]Carpentier
118]Locche
119]Pacquiao
120]Kane
121]Jersey Joe Walcott
122]Dillon
123]Marshall
124]Graziano
125]Delaney
126]Camacho
127]Sharkey
128]J.Lynch
129]Kingpetch
130]Barry
131]Ad Wolgast
132]Benvenuti
133]Baer
134]Jeanette
135]Tendler
136]Buff
137]Coulon
138]Chandler
139]Holly
140]DeJesus
141]Young P.Jackson
142]Winky Wright
143]Mosley
144]Morales
145]Blackburn
146]Griffo
147]B.Lynch
148]Kid Berg
149]H.Johnson
150]Mandell
151]Escobar
152]Freddie Steele
153]Azumah Nelson
154]Bud Taylor
155]Accavallo
156]Young Corbett 111
157]Booker
158]Bivins
159]Moran
160]Ohba
161]H.Gonzalez
162]Toney
163]James J Corbett
164]Patterson
165]Kid McCoy
166]Galaxy
167]Freddie Miller
168]Carbajal
169]F.Burns
170]Winstone
171]Levinsky
172]Fullmer
173]McAuliffe
174]McGuigan
175]Pintor
176]Coulon
177]Pal Moore
178]Becerra
179]E.Pedrozsa
180]Fenech
181]Honeyghan
182]Joey Archer
183]Qawi
184]John Henry Lewis
185]Hamed
186]Collins
187]Saad Muhammed
188]Perkins
189]Schmeling
190]Turpin
191]Gushiken
192]George Gardner
193]Jung Koo Chang
194]John L Sullivan
195]Ritchie
196]Kilbane
197]Bowe
198]Eubank
199]Kid Lavigne
200]Zivic
201]Benn
202]Terry Norris
203]Midget Wolgast
204]Lew Jenkins
205]Maxim
206]Darcey
207]Freddie Mills
208]Papp
209]Rosenberg
210]Percy Jones
211]Battling Battalino
212]Stansol
213]Laciar
214]Kid Norfolk
215]Nunn
216]Danny Lopez
217]Tommy Burns
218]Mormack
219]Michalczewski
220]Virgil Hill
221]Tiozzo
222]Carruthers
223]Chalky Wright
224]Young Corbett 11
225]Papke
226]George Godfrey
227]Choynski
228]Johansson
229]Arcachakov
230]Kid Kaplan
231]Jackie Paterson
232]Mark Johnson
233]Cocoa Kid
234]Arizmendi
235]Young Jack Thompson
236]Klaus
237]Tancey Lee
238]Sun Kil Moon
239]Jeffra
240]Chionoi
241]Salica
242]Marcias
243]Bass
244]Jackie Fields
245]Tiger Fox
246]Davey Moore
247]Curry
248]Dixie Kidd
249]Zamora
250]Mcvea
251]Bushy Graham
252]Burruni
253]Carlos De Leon
254]Halimi
255]Norton
256]Jack Root
257]Young Stribbling
258]Petrolle
259]Billy Smith
260]Dado
261]Carter
262]O'Dowd
263]Wajima
264]Chase
265]Hatton
266]Monaghan
267]Gilberto Roman
268]Saxton
269]Escalera
270]McGirt
271]Tszyu
272]Carlos Hernandez
273]Canizales
274]Goldstein
275]Black Bill
276]Rocky Kansas
277]Frankie Fleming
278]Cochrane
279]Zaragoza
280]Yarosz
281]Myung-woo Yuh
282]Lockridge
283]Legra
284]Pladner
285]Berlenbach
286]Ebihara
287]Carattoli
288]Palamino
289]Marcel
290]Valdez
291]Olson
292]Montanez
293]Elky Clark
294]Watanabe
295]Rafael Marquez
296]Mando Ramos
297]Zapata
298]Rose
299]Ceferino Garcia
300]Britt
301]L.Espinosa
302]Jeff Clark
303]Hart
304]Jose Torres
305]Jeff Harding
306]Herrera
307]Kalambay
308]Joyce
309]Borkhorsov
310]Castro
311]Lora
312]Coker
313]Brian Mitchell
314]Lou Bogash
315]Siki
316]Sugar Ramos
317]Betulio Gonzalez
318]Cuevas
319]Efren Torres
320]Coggi
321]Carlos Teo Cruz
322]Starling
323]Rosario
324]Kobayashi
325]Johnny Nelson
326]Ramey
327]Castillo
328]Bassett
329]Meldrick Taylor
330]Gerald McClellan
331]Kid Aztec
332]Thil
333]Mazzinghi
334]Frankie Randall
335]Kalule
336]Day
337]McCrory
338]Ishimatsu
339]Sarron
340]Junior Jones
341]Aspostoli
342]Lora
343]Willard
344]Farr
345]Newsboy Brown
346]Ottke
347]Freitas
348]Famechon
349]Alvarez
350]Brouilard
351]Miske
352]Austin
353]Sharmba Mitchell
354]Wonjongkam
355]Tokuyama
356]Tod Morgan
357]Villaflor
358]Niida
359]Morel
360]MA Gonzalez
361]Cory Spinks
362]Aguirre
363]Salavarria
364]Sorjaturong
365]Wlad Klitschko
366]Pastrano
367]Milton McCrory
368]Toweel
369]kawashima
370]Larios
371]Vargas
372]Bungu
373]Pender
374]Baxton
375]McKinney
376]Juan Diaz
377]Mugabi
378]Hasegawa
379]Serrano
380]Cohen
381]Orlin Norris
382]Jordan
383]Callahan
384]P.Jackson
385]Fujii
386]Shirai
387]James J Braddock
388]Jirov
389]Bramble
390]Davila
391]Marino
392]Shibata
393]Lujan
394]Paret
395]Chris John
396]Mamby
397]Kessler
398]Barkley
399]Pavlik
400]Jermain Taylor

I went to update my top 200 because i realised after putting up a thread about Ken Buchanan, that i had left Ismael Laguna off the list, also i realised i had not treated Packey McFarland fairly in my original list, i originally placed him inside the top 100, but after reading about him, a top 50 place just above one of his victims Freddie Welsh would be fairer, the
big loser in this reshuffle is Felix Trinidad who i had reservations about when i had him at #80 is now dropped down to #98.
When i drew up a top 200, i had a short list of well over 300 boxers, so i added some more boxers to end up with a nice round number of 400.
The top 100 is in some sort of order,places 100-200 is difficult to categorize and places 200-400 is virtually impossible to rank in order. I admit the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers, if i am missing somebody or i have a 'doubler' or there a rankings that are clearly wrong, let me know and i will change them, all comments welcome.
{things were starting to get so desperate towards the end of the list that if i had a top 500, Antonio Tarver and William Joppy would have been in it.}

[196osh]

I don't have time to give it a once over or the know how. But Hagler is far far far too high.

Compare his 5 best wins to say Joness add that to the fact Jones went up from 154-HW in his career and I would say Jones has to be above. Regardless Hagler is way way too high.

Edit: Calzaghe too

[stonerose]

This is getting a little bit weird now.

[stonerose]

Jonny Nelson 7 places below Kostya Tszyu :lol:

[196osh]

Jonny Nelson 7 places below Kostya Tszyu :lol:


:lol:

[asero]

jofre- too high...never beaten an hall of famer...forget saldivar, he's past his prime

[stonerose]

Glenn Mcrory 50 places better than Julian Jackson ?
Is it a joke or not ?

[trampie]

Its Milton not Glenn, you are right about Johnny though he is definately 40 or 50 places to high.

[trampie]

Johnny now dropped to a more reasonable level {should he drop further ?}

[stonerose]

whatever, it's your list.
can't believe you've sat there and done it to be honest. bit of a waste of time don't you think? what you gonna do with it?

[trampie]

whatever, it's your list.
can't believe you've sat there and done it to be honest. bit of a waste of time don't you think? what you gonna do with it?

People are always asking on this site, where does such and such a boxer rank ?, plus its nice for myself to try and rate boxers so i have some idea where they stand in comparison to one another.

[turpinr]

I don't have time to give it a once over or the know how. But Hagler is far far far too high.

Compare his 5 best wins to say Joness add that to the fact Jones went up from 154-HW in his career and I would say Jones has to be above. Regardless Hagler is way way too high.

Edit: Calzaghe too

hagler would take out roy jones small head the way he did with hearns or mugabi

[ChrisPontius]

Jesus fucking christ.

[Kaki]

That's a huge list.:shock: How'd you go about creating the list?

[trampie]

You will proberbly not find a boxer listed by the International Boxing Research Organisation not on this list ? {they are boxing writers and historians}, apart from a top 20 and 10 just missing the cut, they only list boxers for the 8 traditional weight categories, as well as taking those lists into consideration i also looked at rings annual ratings and unless i have made a mistake i have included every fighter that has been their champion/#1 on more than one occasion,
i have also picked lots of my own selections like Joey Archer, Gerald McClellan, Percy Jones and Nigel Benn most of them are not on any IBRO list and would barely feature in rings annual ratings.
So although posters may disagree with my list, most of the 'all time greats' should be there and although the order is very open to debate it is not me a million miles away
at the top end of the list, from IBRO's own list.

[trampie]

jofre- too high...never beaten an hall of famer...forget saldivar, he's past his prime

I have told you before, Jofre only ever lost against one man, Fighting Harada another great, and both times away from home in Japan, IBRO list Jofre as their #1 bantamweight and as their #15 greatest ever boxer, i have him lower than that at #18, when you came on this site you wanted a group of people to rank boxers ? so what is wrong with them having him at #15 ? {and me having him at #18} they are a group arent they ?

[trampie]

Boxers just missing out on the top 400 {perhaps they shouldnt ?} include, Julien Jackson,
Vernon Forrest, John Conteh, JM Marquez and Maurice Hope.

[DINAMITA]

This is getting a little bit weird now.

I get this feeling too. The amount of effort is commendable, but I'm struggling to see the point to be honest, other than gaining personal plaudits.

The list itself is vast, but it is not a great list at all in terms of quality.

[DINAMITA]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


WHERE'S JOPPY????

You had him 143rd in a recent list (above both Erik Morales and Azumah Nelson), now you say he'd be 400-500. What has William done in a couple of months that has seen him drop 300 places?

[jaffay]

oh, my, god...

[El Puma]

Jesus fucking christ.:rofl

[stevebhoy87]

1] Sugar Ray Robinson
2] Henry Armstrong
3] Langford
4] Greb
5] Duran
6] B.Leonard
7] Wilde
8] Ali
9] Louis
10] Pep
11] Charles
12] Fitzsimmons
13] Gans
14] R.Leonard
15] Hagler
16] Walker
17] Moore
18] Jofre
19] Tunney
20] Jack Johnson
21] Monzon
22] Whitaker
23] B.Ross
24] Saddler
25] Canzoneri
26] Salvador Sanchez
27] Babadoes Joe Walcott
28] Ketchel
29] I.Williams
30] Burley
31] Marciano
32] Jack Dempsey
33] Roy Jones Jnr
34] Holmes
35] Dixon
36] Cesar Charvez
37] E.Griffith
38] Arguello
39] Holyfield
40] Kid Gavilan
41] Hearns
42] Napoles
43] Packey McFarland
44] Freddie Welsh
45] Driscoll
46] C.Ortiz
47] L.Lewis
48] Mayweather Jnr
49] Harada
50] Britton
51] Olivares
52] M.Spinks
53] Calzaghe
54] Hopkins
55] Wills
56] W.Gomez
57] foster
58] Loughran
59] LM Rodriquez
60] Villa
61] Al Brown
62] M.Ortiz
63] Dick Tiger
64] Conn
65] Attell
66] Pascual Perez
67] Canto
68] McGovern
69] Ted Kid Lewis
70] Kid Chocolate
71] Joe Brown
72] Tiger Flower
73] Cerdan
74] Jeffries
75] Basilio
76] McLarnin
77] T.Ryan
78] Beau Jack
79] Angott
80] Pryer
81] McCallum
82] W.Benitez
83] De La Hoya
84] Billy Graham
85] Gibbons
86] Kilbane
87] Blackburn
88] Ambers
89] Tyson
90] H.Williams
91] Liston
92] Herman
93] Philly Jack O'Brien
94] Loi
95] Cervantes
96] Zarate
97] Giardello
98] Trinidad
99] Buchanan
100]Laguna
101]Montgomery
102]Barrera
103]Dundee
104]Zale
105]Vicente Salvador
106]LaBarba
107]Kid Williams
108]Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
109]Elorde
110]Genero
111]Battling Nelson
112]Rosenbloom
113]La Motta
114]Foreman
115]Frazier
116]R.Lopez
117]Carpentier
118]Locche
119]Pacquiao
120]Kane
121]Jersey Joe Walcott
122]Dillon
123]Marshall
124]Graziano
125]Delaney
126]Camacho
127]Sharkey
128]J.Lynch
129]Kingpetch
130]Barry
131]Ad Wolgast
132]Benvenuti
133]Baer
134]Jeanette
135]Tendler
136]Buff
137]Coulon
138]Chandler
139]Holly
140]DeJesus
141]Young P.Jackson
142]Winky Wright
143]Mosley
144]Morales
145]Blackburn
146]Griffo
147]B.Lynch
148]Kid Berg
149]H.Johnson
150]Mandell
151]Escobar
152]Freddie Steele
153]Azumah Nelson
154]Bud Taylor
155]Accavallo
156]Young Corbett 111
157]Booker
158]Bivins
159]Moran
160]Ohba
161]H.Gonzalez
162]Toney
163]James J Corbett
164]Patterson
165]Kid McCoy
166]Galaxy
167]Freddie Miller
168]Carbajal
169]F.Burns
170]Winstone
171]Levinsky
172]Fullmer
173]McAuliffe
174]McGuigan
175]Pintor
176]Coulon
177]Pal Moore
178]Becerra
179]E.Pedrozsa
180]Fenech
181]Honeyghan
182]Joey Archer
183]Qawi
184]John Henry Lewis
185]Hamed
186]Collins
187]Saad Muhammed
188]Perkins
189]Schmeling
190]Turpin
191]Gushiken
192]George Gardner
193]Jung Koo Chang
194]John L Sullivan
195]Ritchie
196]Kilbane
197]Bowe
198]Eubank
199]Kid Lavigne
200]Zivic
201]Benn
202]Terry Norris
203]Midget Wolgast
204]Lew Jenkins
205]Maxim
206]Darcey
207]Freddie Mills
208]Papp
209]Rosenberg
210]Percy Jones
211]Battling Battalino
212]Stansol
213]Laciar
214]Kid Norfolk
215]Nunn
216]Danny Lopez
217]Tommy Burns
218]Mormack
219]Michalczewski
220]Virgil Hill
221]Tiozzo
222]Carruthers
223]Chalky Wright
224]Young Corbett 11
225]Papke
226]George Godfrey
227]Choynski
228]Johansson
229]Arcachakov
230]Kid Kaplan
231]Jackie Paterson
232]Mark Johnson
233]Cocoa Kid
234]Arizmendi
235]Young Jack Thompson
236]Klaus
237]Tancey Lee
238]Sun Kil Moon
239]Jeffra
240]Chionoi
241]Salica
242]Marcias
243]Bass
244]Jackie Fields
245]Tiger Fox
246]Davey Moore
247]Curry
248]Dixie Kidd
249]Zamora
250]Mcvea
251]Bushy Graham
252]Burruni
253]Carlos De Leon
254]Halimi
255]Norton
256]Jack Root
257]Young Stribbling
258]Petrolle
259]Billy Smith
260]Dado
261]Carter
262]O'Dowd
263]Wajima
264]Chase
265]Hatton
266]Monaghan
267]Gilberto Roman
268]Saxton
269]Escalera
270]McGirt
271]Tszyu
272]Carlos Hernandez
273]Canizales
274]Goldstein
275]Black Bill
276]Rocky Kansas
277]Frankie Fleming
278]Cochrane
279]Zaragoza
280]Yarosz
281]Myung-woo Yuh
282]Lockridge
283]Legra
284]Pladner
285]Berlenbach
286]Ebihara
287]Carattoli
288]Palamino
289]Marcel
290]Valdez
291]Olson
292]Montanez
293]Elky Clark
294]Watanabe
295]Rafael Marquez
296]Mando Ramos
297]Zapata
298]Rose
299]Ceferino Garcia
300]Britt
301]L.Espinosa
302]Jeff Clark
303]Hart
304]Jose Torres
305]Jeff Harding
306]Herrera
307]Kalambay
308]Joyce
309]Borkhorsov
310]Castro
311]Lora
312]Coker
313]Brian Mitchell
314]Lou Bogash
315]Siki
316]Sugar Ramos
317]Betulio Gonzalez
318]Cuevas
319]Efren Torres
320]Coggi
321]Carlos Teo Cruz
322]Starling
323]Rosario
324]Kobayashi
325]Johnny Nelson
326]Ramey
327]Castillo
328]Bassett
329]Meldrick Taylor
330]Gerald McClellan
331]Kid Aztec
332]Thil
333]Mazzinghi
334]Frankie Randall
335]Kalule
336]Day
337]McCrory
338]Ishimatsu
339]Sarron
340]Junior Jones
341]Aspostoli
342]Lora
343]Willard
344]Farr
345]Newsboy Brown
346]Ottke
347]Freitas
348]Famechon
349]Alvarez
350]Brouilard
351]Miske
352]Austin
353]Sharmba Mitchell
354]Wonjongkam
355]Tokuyama
356]Tod Morgan
357]Villaflor
358]Niida
359]Morel
360]MA Gonzalez
361]Cory Spinks
362]Aguirre
363]Salavarria
364]Sorjaturong
365]Wlad Klitschko
366]Pastrano
367]Milton McCrory
368]Toweel
369]kawashima
370]Larios
371]Vargas
372]Bungu
373]Pender
374]Baxton
375]McKinney
376]Juan Diaz
377]Mugabi
378]Hasegawa
379]Serrano
380]Cohen
381]Orlin Norris
382]Jordan
383]Callahan
384]P.Jackson
385]Fujii
386]Shirai
387]James J Braddock
388]Jirov
389]Bramble
390]Davila
391]Marino
392]Shibata
393]Lujan
394]Paret
395]Chris John
396]Mamby
397]Kessler
398]Barkley
399]Pavlik
400]Jermain Taylor

I went to update my top 200 because i realised after putting up a thread about Ken Buchanan, that i had left Ismael Laguna off the list, also i realised i had not treated Packey McFarland fairly in my original list, i originally placed him inside the top 100, but after reading about him, a top 50 place just above one of his victims Freddie Welsh would be fairer, the
big loser in this reshuffle is Felix Trinidad who i had reservations about when i had him at #80 is now dropped down to #98.
When i drew up a top 200, i had a short list of well over 300 boxers, so i added some more boxers to end up with a nice round number of 400.
The top 100 is in some sort of order,places 100-200 is difficult to categorize and places 200-400 is virtually impossible to rank in order. I admit the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers, if i am missing somebody or i have a 'doubler' or there a rankings that are clearly wrong, let me know and i will change them, all comments welcome.
{things were starting to get so desperate towards the end of the list that if i had a top 500, Antonio Tarver and William Joppy would have been in it.}


You need to go out and get some sex mate :bbb

Only kidding, fair play to you, i don't really agree with a lot of your placings but i'm struggling like fuck to do a top 50 that i'm happy with never mind a top 400

[PaddyD1983]

You need to go out and get some sex mate

:rofl:rofl:rofl

[Decebal]

ESB Classic has turned out much worse than the abomination some of us were fearing...:-(:verysad:-(

[TommyV]

I agree with steviebhoy.

This kis badly needs to get laid.

[Sweet Pea]

Seriously. What the fuck? Your top 200 sucked bad enough, let's end this shit.

[The Phenom]

1] Sugar Ray Robinson
2] Henry Armstrong
3] Langford
4] Greb
5] Duran
6] B.Leonard
7] Wilde
8] Ali
9] Louis
10] Pep
11] Charles
12] Fitzsimmons
13] Gans
14] R.Leonard
15] Hagler
16] Walker
17] Moore
18] Jofre
19] Tunney
20] Jack Johnson
21] Monzon
22] Whitaker
23] B.Ross
24] Saddler
25] Canzoneri
26] Salvador Sanchez
27] Babadoes Joe Walcott
28] Ketchel
29] I.Williams
30] Burley
31] Marciano
32] Jack Dempsey
33] Roy Jones Jnr
34] Holmes
35] Dixon
36] Cesar Charvez
37] E.Griffith
38] Arguello
39] Holyfield
40] Kid Gavilan
41] Hearns
42] Napoles
43] Packey McFarland
44] Freddie Welsh
45] Driscoll
46] C.Ortiz
47] L.Lewis
48] Mayweather Jnr
49] Harada
50] Britton
51] Olivares
52] M.Spinks
53] Calzaghe
54] Hopkins
55] Wills
56] W.Gomez
57] foster
58] Loughran
59] LM Rodriquez
60] Villa
61] Al Brown
62] M.Ortiz
63] Dick Tiger
64] Conn
65] Attell
66] Pascual Perez
67] Canto
68] McGovern
69] Ted Kid Lewis
70] Kid Chocolate
71] Joe Brown
72] Tiger Flower
73] Cerdan
74] Jeffries
75] Basilio
76] McLarnin
77] T.Ryan
78] Beau Jack
79] Angott
80] Pryer
81] McCallum
82] W.Benitez
83] De La Hoya
84] Billy Graham
85] Gibbons
86] Kilbane
87] Blackburn
88] Ambers
89] Tyson
90] H.Williams
91] Liston
92] Herman
93] Philly Jack O'Brien
94] Loi
95] Cervantes
96] Zarate
97] Giardello
98] Trinidad
99] Buchanan
100]Laguna
101]Montgomery
102]Barrera
103]Dundee
104]Zale
105]Vicente Salvador
106]LaBarba
107]Kid Williams
108]Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
109]Elorde
110]Genero
111]Battling Nelson
112]Rosenbloom
113]La Motta
114]Foreman
115]Frazier
116]R.Lopez
117]Carpentier
118]Locche
119]Pacquiao
120]Kane
121]Jersey Joe Walcott
122]Dillon
123]Marshall
124]Graziano
125]Delaney
126]Camacho
127]Sharkey
128]J.Lynch
129]Kingpetch
130]Barry
131]Ad Wolgast
132]Benvenuti
133]Baer
134]Jeanette
135]Tendler
136]Buff
137]Coulon
138]Chandler
139]Holly
140]DeJesus
141]Young P.Jackson
142]Winky Wright
143]Mosley
144]Morales
145]Blackburn
146]Griffo
147]B.Lynch
148]Kid Berg
149]H.Johnson
150]Mandell
151]Escobar
152]Freddie Steele
153]Azumah Nelson
154]Bud Taylor
155]Accavallo
156]Young Corbett 111
157]Booker
158]Bivins
159]Moran
160]Ohba
161]H.Gonzalez
162]Toney
163]James J Corbett
164]Patterson
165]Kid McCoy
166]Galaxy
167]Freddie Miller
168]Carbajal
169]F.Burns
170]Winstone
171]Levinsky
172]Fullmer
173]McAuliffe
174]McGuigan
175]Pintor
176]Coulon
177]Pal Moore
178]Becerra
179]E.Pedrozsa
180]Fenech
181]Honeyghan
182]Joey Archer
183]Qawi
184]John Henry Lewis
185]Hamed
186]Collins
187]Saad Muhammed
188]Perkins
189]Schmeling
190]Turpin
191]Gushiken
192]George Gardner
193]Jung Koo Chang
194]John L Sullivan
195]Ritchie
196]Kilbane
197]Bowe
198]Eubank
199]Kid Lavigne
200]Zivic
201]Benn
202]Terry Norris
203]Midget Wolgast
204]Lew Jenkins
205]Maxim
206]Darcey
207]Freddie Mills
208]Papp
209]Rosenberg
210]Percy Jones
211]Battling Battalino
212]Stansol
213]Laciar
214]Kid Norfolk
215]Nunn
216]Danny Lopez
217]Tommy Burns
218]Mormack
219]Michalczewski
220]Virgil Hill
221]Tiozzo
222]Carruthers
223]Chalky Wright
224]Young Corbett 11
225]Papke
226]George Godfrey
227]Choynski
228]Johansson
229]Arcachakov
230]Kid Kaplan
231]Jackie Paterson
232]Mark Johnson
233]Cocoa Kid
234]Arizmendi
235]Young Jack Thompson
236]Klaus
237]Tancey Lee
238]Sun Kil Moon
239]Jeffra
240]Chionoi
241]Salica
242]Marcias
243]Bass
244]Jackie Fields
245]Tiger Fox
246]Davey Moore
247]Curry
248]Dixie Kidd
249]Zamora
250]Mcvea
251]Bushy Graham
252]Burruni
253]Carlos De Leon
254]Halimi
255]Norton
256]Jack Root
257]Young Stribbling
258]Petrolle
259]Billy Smith
260]Dado
261]Carter
262]O'Dowd
263]Wajima
264]Chase
265]Hatton
266]Monaghan
267]Gilberto Roman
268]Saxton
269]Escalera
270]McGirt
271]Tszyu
272]Carlos Hernandez
273]Canizales
274]Goldstein
275]Black Bill
276]Rocky Kansas
277]Frankie Fleming
278]Cochrane
279]Zaragoza
280]Yarosz
281]Myung-woo Yuh
282]Lockridge
283]Legra
284]Pladner
285]Berlenbach
286]Ebihara
287]Carattoli
288]Palamino
289]Marcel
290]Valdez
291]Olson
292]Montanez
293]Elky Clark
294]Watanabe
295]Rafael Marquez
296]Mando Ramos
297]Zapata
298]Rose
299]Ceferino Garcia
300]Britt
301]L.Espinosa
302]Jeff Clark
303]Hart
304]Jose Torres
305]Jeff Harding
306]Herrera
307]Kalambay
308]Joyce
309]Borkhorsov
310]Castro
311]Lora
312]Coker
313]Brian Mitchell
314]Lou Bogash
315]Siki
316]Sugar Ramos
317]Betulio Gonzalez
318]Cuevas
319]Efren Torres
320]Coggi
321]Carlos Teo Cruz
322]Starling
323]Rosario
324]Kobayashi
325]Johnny Nelson
326]Ramey
327]Castillo
328]Bassett
329]Meldrick Taylor
330]Gerald McClellan
331]Kid Aztec
332]Thil
333]Mazzinghi
334]Frankie Randall
335]Kalule
336]Day
337]McCrory
338]Ishimatsu
339]Sarron
340]Junior Jones
341]Aspostoli
342]Lora
343]Willard
344]Farr
345]Newsboy Brown
346]Ottke
347]Freitas
348]Famechon
349]Alvarez
350]Brouilard
351]Miske
352]Austin
353]Sharmba Mitchell
354]Wonjongkam
355]Tokuyama
356]Tod Morgan
357]Villaflor
358]Niida
359]Morel
360]MA Gonzalez
361]Cory Spinks
362]Aguirre
363]Salavarria
364]Sorjaturong
365]Wlad Klitschko
366]Pastrano
367]Milton McCrory
368]Toweel
369]kawashima
370]Larios
371]Vargas
372]Bungu
373]Pender
374]Baxton
375]McKinney
376]Juan Diaz
377]Mugabi
378]Hasegawa
379]Serrano
380]Cohen
381]Orlin Norris
382]Jordan
383]Callahan
384]P.Jackson
385]Fujii
386]Shirai
387]James J Braddock
388]Jirov
389]Bramble
390]Davila
391]Marino
392]Shibata
393]Lujan
394]Paret
395]Chris John
396]Mamby
397]Kessler
398]Barkley
399]Pavlik
400]Jermain Taylor

I went to update my top 200 because i realised after putting up a thread about Ken Buchanan, that i had left Ismael Laguna off the list, also i realised i had not treated Packey McFarland fairly in my original list, i originally placed him inside the top 100, but after reading about him, a top 50 place just above one of his victims Freddie Welsh would be fairer, the
big loser in this reshuffle is Felix Trinidad who i had reservations about when i had him at #80 is now dropped down to #98.
When i drew up a top 200, i had a short list of well over 300 boxers, so i added some more boxers to end up with a nice round number of 400.
The top 100 is in some sort of order,places 100-200 is difficult to categorize and places 200-400 is virtually impossible to rank in order. I admit the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers, if i am missing somebody or i have a 'doubler' or there a rankings that are clearly wrong, let me know and i will change them, all comments welcome.
{things were starting to get so desperate towards the end of the list that if i had a top 500, Antonio Tarver and William Joppy would have been in it.}
Freak.

[DINAMITA]

Boxers just missing out on the top 400 {perhaps they shouldnt ?} include, Julien Jackson,
Vernon Forrest, John Conteh, JM Marquez and Maurice Hope.

Actually consider this for a minute anyone who is bothering to view this freakshow....

The guy who has spent Christ knows how long making a spectacularly useless top 400 ranks:

- Joe Calzaghe at 53rd ever

- And Juan Manuel Marquez does not make a top FOUR HUNDRED

:lol:

You think someone who had gone to so much trouble would actually bother learning something about the damn sport first!

There is absolutely no way in hell any sane person can justify a 350+ place difference between the world p4p#2 Marquez and #3 Calzaghe - it boggles the mind! :admin:nono

[DINAMITA]

Seriously. What the fuck? Your top 200 sucked bad enough, let's end this shit.

:lol: Too true.

[trampie]

The list itself is vast, but it is not a great list at all in terms of quality.[/quote]

In light of the above comment, lets remind ourselves of DINAMITA's recent top 100, shall we :-
1-10
Tier One________________________________________________
Sugar Ray Robinson
Sam Langford
Harry Greb
Henry Armstrong
Ezzard Charles
Muhammad Ali
Roberto Duran
Mickey Walker

Tier Two________________________________________________
Archie Moore*
Barney Ross

11-20
Carlos Monzon
Willie Pep
Benny Leonard
Bob Fitzsimmons
Ray Leonard
Pernell Whitaker
Gene Tunney

Tier Three_______________________________________________
Roy Jones Jr*
Emile Griffith
Charley Burley

21-30
Joe Louis
Joe Gans
Eder Jofre
Alexis Arguello
Sandy Saddler
Tony Canzoneri
Kid Gavilan
Barbados Joe Walcott
Jimmy Wilde

Tier Four________________________________________________
Julio Cesar Chavez

31-40
Carlos Ortiz
Bernard Hopkins
Thomas Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Evander Holyfield
Jose Napoles
Lennox Lewis
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Holman Williams*
Ike Williams

41-50
Manny Pacquiao
Salvador Sanchez
Luis Manuel Rodriguez
Ruben Olivares
Fighting Harada*
Jimmy McLarnin
Jack Britton

Tier Five________________________________________________
Michael Spinks
Terry McGovern
Rocky Marciano

51-60
Miguel Canto
Ted Kid Lewis
Billy Conn
Jack Dempsey 'Nonpareil'
Dick Tiger
Jack Johnson
Pascual Perez
Harry Wills
Wilfredo Gomez
Tiger Flowers

61-70
Jimmy Bivins
Bob Foster

Tier Six_________________________________________________
Duilio Loi
Pancho Villa
Tommy Loughran
Stanley Ketchel
Georges Carpentier
Lloyd Marshall
Carmen Basilio
Jake LaMotta

71-80
Joe Brown
Manuel Ortiz
Sonny Liston

Tier Seven_______________________________________________
George Foreman
Ken Buchanan
Joe Frazier
Panama Al Brown
Mike Tyson
Gene Fullmer
Nino Benvenuti

81-90
Mike McCallum
Kid Chocolate
Oscar De La Hoya
Marco Antonio Barrera
Marcel Cerdan
Larry Holmes
Azumah Nelson
Erik Morales
James Toney
Ricardo Lopez

91-100
Tier Eight_______________________________________________
Wilfred Benitez
Carlos Zarate
Felix Trinidad
Aaron Pryor
Nicolino Locche
Antonio Cervantes
Jack Dempsey
Vicente Saldivar
Joe Calzaghe
Benny Lynch

No George Dixon {#35 on my list} :lol:
NO Parkey McFarland{#43 on my list} :lol:
No Jim Driscoll {#45 on my list} :lol:
No Jim Jeffries {#74 on my list} :lol:
No Beau Jack {#78 on my list} :lol:

These 5 boxers are stonewall top 100 and you have not got one of them in your list :roll:

Instead you have got =
Morales,Bivins,Carpentier and FFS James Toney and Benny Lynch :yikes of Scotland.

You rank Hopkins over Hagler, you got to be off your head with that one. :nut

You rank Manny Pacman over Salvador Sanchez :shock:.

Do i need to go on ?

You have the 'Mighty Atom' at #29 :shock:
You have Monzon above Sugar Ray Leonard :shock:
You have La Motta above Larry Holmes :shock:
You have Liston,Foreman,Frazier as well as La Motta too high :nono
You rank Lennox Lewis as your #3 heavyweight [natural] ?, i have him #7.
You rank Calzaghe as the #2 ATG Welshman, i say #4 ?
You rank Pacquiao as the #1 Filipino, may be one day, currently i have him #3

Hopkins #32 = joke [not even top 50]
Hagler #34 = joke [should be inside top 20]
Pacquiao #41 = joke [no justification for this ranking at this stage]
Wilde #29= joke [top 10 or thereabouts]
Bivins #61 = joke [outside top 100,lost against virtually ever other top fighter he fought]
Morales #88 = joke [well outside top 100]
Toney #89 = joke [well outside top 100]
B.Lynch #100 =joke [well outside top 100, never fought outside UK, infact had virtually every fight in Scotland]

also Roy Jones Jr up at #18 ??? = 'joke', way ahead of Marvelous Marvin Hagler !

The above 'jokes' are way out, i am not going to mention, Ezzard Charles at #5 and Marciano 45 places lower than that {Rocky beat him twice, my gap is only 20 places} or Walker at #8 or Monzon at #11 as they are your choices, but the 'joke' picks i have highlighted above this paragraph are truly terrible :-(

[trampie]

DINAMITA, can you tell the forum why you do not have =
George Dixon, Parkey McFarland, Jim Driscoll,Freddie Welsh and Jim Jeffries in your top 100 ?
{ i will leave you off for not having Lou Ambers, Beau Jack and Billy Graham}

Packey McFarland had 104 fights in his career and lost just one, he beat Jack Britton #47 on your list twice and 1 draw, the boxrec report for one of their fights says Packey won every round accept one whch was even, Packey also had wins over Welsh, Kilbane and Britt.

George Dixon was the first black World boxing champion, ranked by Nat Fleischer as the #1 All Time greatest bantamweight.

Jim Jeffries fought in the most famous fight ever against Jack Johnson, Jeffries KO Fitzsimmons #14 on your list, not once but twice he also beat James J Corbett, Sharkey and Peter Jackson.

Freddie Welsh had a win over Benny Leonard #13 on your list, as well as wins over Ad Wolgast, Johnny Dundee, Jim Driscoll and Willie Ritchie, Ritchie is another one that does not make your list.

Jim Driscoll beat Abe Attell winning every round, he also beat George Dixon 3 times, oh i have just realised you have not got Abe Attell in your top 100 either ???

You obviously know nothing about the history of boxing !!!!

The best thing you can do is admit you left these older boxers of your list because they were in most cases pre film, thats why you know nothing about them, if you try and diss them, no serious boxing fan will be able to take you seriously.
If people point out glaring mistakes in my list i will change them, i am no expert, thats why other resources was used to try and prevent leaving off boxers that belonged on the list.
You on the other hand, will never admit to being wrong, so come on either justify why Dixon,McFarland,Driscoll,Jeffries,Welsh,Beau Jack,Attell,Jim Jeffries etc are not amongst your top 100 or admit to having a crap list and having made a balls up of it.

If you make excuses for not including most of the above boxers and in the future update/create a new top 100 list, with some of them on it, i will be down on you like a ton of bricks.

[trampie]

Also DINAMITA can you tell everybody why Morales,Bivins,James Toney and Benny Lynch are in your 100 greatest boxers that have ever lived category ?

[BadJuju83]

To compile a list of 400 Boxers and rank them takes some serious knowledge, time and effort.


At least thats what i thought til i read this pish.


Congratulations on naming 400 Boxers and writing them down. Thats all i can say.

[trampie]

You will proberbly not find a boxer listed by the International Boxing Research Organisation not on this list ? {they are boxing writers and historians}, apart from a top 20 and 10 just missing the cut, they only list boxers for the 8 traditional weight categories, as well as taking those lists into consideration i also looked at rings annual ratings and unless i have made a mistake i have included every fighter that has been their champion/#1 on more than one occasion,
i have also picked lots of my own selections like Joey Archer, Gerald McClellan, Percy Jones and Nigel Benn most of them are not on any IBRO list and would barely feature in rings annual ratings.
So although posters may disagree with my list, most of the 'all time greats' should be there and although the order is very open to debate it is not me a million miles away
at the top end of the list, from IBRO's own list.

BadJuju83, the above quote, explains some of the resources that was used to construct the list {IBRO and rings annual ratings}, if you think the list is pish fine, but i'd like to see what you regard as a good list ? , something like DINAMITA's list perhaps, which is missing lots of the old, All Time Greats, but is filled with more modern boxers that people are more likely to have heard of ?
Regardless of the running order, any top 100 list that does not have George Dixon, Peerless Jim or Packey in it, is not worth the paper it is written on :hi:

[flamengo]

Try the top 1000.... if I see my own name, its way too high.


Jacky Blackburn at 145????????????? please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[trampie]

Jacky what weight did she fight at ?

I may have listed Jack Blackburn too high, he has losses against Gans, Philly Jack O'Brien and Kid Norfolk, his best win seems to be against Dave Holly.

Wait a minute, are you saying Jackie should be ranked higher ?

[196osh]

hagler would take out roy jones small head the way he did with hearns or mugabi

Course he would sunshine, have a cookie for a great input.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[turpinr]

thank you
and anybody who thinks that marciano is equal to ezzard charles must be a fucking armchair warrior.
benny lynch ranked too high? a legend anywhere!

[PaddyD1983]

thank you
and anybody who thinks that marciano is equal to ezzard charles must be a fucking armchair warrior.
benny lynch ranked too high? a legend anywhere!

Maybe it's just me reading it wrong, but are you putting Rocky ahead?

In terms of P4P, I'd put Charles above Marciano

[The_Hitman92]

Whitaker, Hopkins and RJJ should be higher than they are for starters.

[turpinr]

Maybe it's just me reading it wrong, but are you putting Rocky ahead?

In terms of P4P, I'd put Charles above Marciano

charles is leagues ahead of marciano!!!
didn't see john conteh's name , as he upset somebody.a bloke who battered saad muhamad ONE handed.

[joe33]

Great list give me a minute and i'll knock up me all time top one thousand :verysad

[PaddyD1983]

charles is leagues ahead of marciano!!!
didn't see john conteh's name , as he upset somebody.a bloke who battered saad muhamad ONE handed.

:good

I presumed you meant Charles ahead of Marciano, just couldnt tell from your wording.

And yeah, Conteh should be up there. But there's a lot wrong with that list.

[GPater11093]

IMO benny lynch is top 100 he has as much right as sal sanchez

[DINAMITA]

To compile a list of 400 Boxers and rank them takes some serious knowledge, time and effort.


At least thats what i thought til i read this pish.


Congratulations on naming 400 Boxers and writing them down. Thats all i can say.

:lol:

:happy:happy:happy


END THREAD.

[DINAMITA]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


WHERE'S JOPPY????

You had him 143rd in a recent list (above both Erik Morales and Azumah Nelson), now you say he'd be 400-500. What has William done in a couple of months that has seen him drop 300 places?


Trampie,

Your three or four replies to one of my posts shows you how hot and bothered you are :fire,

but the fact remains that your list is a WILLIAM JOPPY

and my list was a PERNELL WHITAKER by comparison.


The Classic Forum has spoken!! Your list sucks!

Biggest waste of time in history! The validation you so desperately crave has not been given! Try again in some other way!!

[TommyV]

No George Dixon {#35 on my list}
NO Parkey McFarland{#43 on my list}
No Jim Driscoll {#45 on my list}
No Jim Jeffries {#74 on my list}
No Beau Jack {#78 on my list}

Your list sucks though.

Hopkins #32 = joke [not even top 50]
Hagler #34 = joke [should be inside top 20]
Pacquiao #41 = joke [no justification for this ranking at this stage]
Wilde #29= joke [top 10 or thereabouts]
Bivins #61 = joke [outside top 100,lost against virtually ever other top fighter he fought]
Morales #88 = joke [well outside top 100]
Toney #89 = joke [well outside top 100]
B.Lynch #100 =joke [well outside top 100, never fought outside UK, infact had virtually every fight in Scotland]

Hopkins is easily top 40 material.

Hagler should no way be in the top 20. #34 is fine.

Pacquiao is fine, you call that a joke and have Calzaghe at #53? :lol:

Charles should be #5, Marciano doesn't make my top 50.

Mickey Walker should be top 10.

Wilde should be nowhere near the top 10.

I also have no major qualms with Lynch, Toney, Morales or Bivins in the top 100.

Roy should be top 20.

[TommyV]

Your top 20 is laughable enough, Wilde at 7? :rofl

Louis shouldn't be top 10, Charles shouldn't be lower than #7. Hagler at 15 is laughable aswell. Jofre shouldn't be at 18. Johnson at 20 is hilarious.

Don't even get me started on Calzaghe, ahead of Hopkins? Ahead of De La Hoya? Ahead of Trinidad? Guys like Hasegawa ahead of Jirov and Braddock? I don't know what Lujan you have in there either, but frankly if it's any of Manuel, Jorge or Sebastian it's another laughable pick.

[DINAMITA]

Your list sucks though.



Hopkins is easily top 40 material.

Hagler should no way be in the top 20. #34 is fine.

Pacquiao is fine, you call that a joke and have Calzaghe at #53? :lol:

Charles should be #5, Marciano doesn't make my top 50.

Mickey Walker should be top 10.

Wilde should be nowhere near the top 10.

I also have no major qualms with Lynch, Toney, Morales or Bivins in the top 100.

Roy should be top 20.

Exactly.

My list shits all over his.

Cheers for your input Tommy :good

[DINAMITA]

Your top 20 is laughable enough, Wilde at 7? :rofl

Louis shouldn't be top 10, Charles shouldn't be lower than #7. Hagler at 15 is laughable aswell. Jofre shouldn't be at 18. Johnson at 20 is hilarious.

All very obvious errors I've called him on before.

The guy's knowledge is dire.

[GPater11093]

i think you could make a case for louis being top 10 as after all the top 30 or so boxers are pretty close and louis is the longest holder of a title ever

i think also you could rank hagler as high as 15 and even top 10 IMO as he could be classed as the greatest middlewight ever depenedson who you speak to i think him and monzon are joint top and are just in the top 10 or just outside it depends what mood i am in

[trampie]

DINAMITA, can you tell the forum why you do not have =
George Dixon, Parkey McFarland, Jim Driscoll,Freddie Welsh and Jim Jeffries in your top 100 ?
{ i will leave you off for not having Lou Ambers, Beau Jack and Billy Graham}

Packey McFarland had 104 fights in his career and lost just one, he beat Jack Britton #47 on your list twice and 1 draw, the boxrec report for one of their fights says Packey won every round accept one whch was even, Packey also had wins over Welsh, Kilbane and Britt.

George Dixon was the first black World boxing champion, ranked by Nat Fleischer as the #1 All Time greatest bantamweight.

Jim Jeffries fought in the most famous fight ever against Jack Johnson, Jeffries KO Fitzsimmons #14 on your list, not once but twice he also beat James J Corbett, Sharkey and Peter Jackson.

Freddie Welsh had a win over Benny Leonard #13 on your list, as well as wins over Ad Wolgast, Johnny Dundee, Jim Driscoll and Willie Ritchie, Ritchie is another one that does not make your list.

Jim Driscoll beat Abe Attell winning every round, he also beat George Dixon 3 times, oh i have just realised you have not got Abe Attell in your top 100 either ???

You obviously know nothing about the history of boxing !!!!

The best thing you can do is admit you left these older boxers of your list because they were in most cases pre film, thats why you know nothing about them, if you try and diss them, no serious boxing fan will be able to take you seriously.
If people point out glaring mistakes in my list i will change them, i am no expert, thats why other resources was used to try and prevent leaving off boxers that belonged on the list.
You on the other hand, will never admit to being wrong, so come on either justify why Dixon,McFarland,Driscoll,Welsh,Beau Jack,Attell,Jim Jeffries etc are not amongst your top 100 or admit to having a crap list and having made a balls up of it.

If you make excuses for not including most of the above boxers and in the future update/create a new top 100 list, with some of them on it, i will be down on you like a ton of bricks.

DINAMITA you have not answered why is Dixon,McFarland,Driscoll,Jeffries,Welsh,Attell etc missing from your list ?

[GPater11093]

trampie just leave it out

you too dinamita

dinamita you ahve an excellant list but have afew mistakes but except that good

trampie you spent an enourmous time doing a top 400 and i respect that of course with 400 names you will make afew mistakes but it is excellant list mostly both of yours are


so stop arguing

[TommyV]

trampie just leave it out

you too dinamita

dinamita you ahve an excellant list but have afew mistakes but except that good

trampie you spent an enourmous time doing a top 400 and i respect that of course with 400 names you will make afew mistakes but it is excellant list mostly both of yours are

so stop arguing

His list sucks.

It's not even like he ran out of names and chucked random laughable fuckers in at the end, right from the start it's appalling.

And you respect him for doing a top 400?

He needs a social life. He needs to get laid badly.

[GPater11093]

sure his list is abit shoddy but i reckon if nayone made a top 400 it would be abit shaky

albeit his first few arnt so great but it is his opinion

also trampie you have too much tim eon your hands lol

[trampie]

:D
Forumites, particularly DINAMITA and to a lesser extent Tommy V,
The IBRO is the closest thing we have to a 'definative' list, which has been compiled by a large group of boxing writers and historians, their P4P list, that is on the net, was compiled September 2006, so it is fairly up to date, so lets compare mine and DINAMITA's list against the IBRO'S list.

Experts trampie DINAMITA
SRR 0 0
Greb 2 places out 1 place out
Armstrong 1 place out 1 place out
Louis 5 places out 17 places out :roll:
Ali 4 places out 2 places out
Langford 3 places out 4 places out
Duran 2 places out 0
B.Leonard 2 places out 5 places out
Pep 1 place out 3 places out
Fitzsimmons 2 places out 4 places out
Gans 2 places out 11 places out :roll:
Charles 1 place out 7 places out
Ray Leonard 1 place out 2 places out
Wilde 7 places out 15 places out :roll:
Joffre 3 places out 8 places out
Walker 0 8 places out
Monzon 0 8 places out
Dempsey 14 places out 79 places out :yikes
J Johnson 1 place out 37 places out :yikes
Tunney 1 place out 3 places out

I have ended up 52 places out compared to IBRO's top 20 list and
DINAMITA has ended up 215 places out compared to IBRO's top 20 list :lol:

I had it smack on 3 times compared to DINAMITA 2 times.
I was only 1 place out 6 times, DINAMITA was 1 place out 2 times.

IBRO's next top 10, places 21-30, I have 6 of them in my 21-30 list,
DINAMITA has only 2 boxers in the 21-30 slot the same as the IBRO.

So there you have it, my list is reasonably close to the 'experts' list,
DINAMITA's list just does not compare to the boxing 'experts' list.

[trampie]

TommyV can i ask you a question, are you a pen pal of DINAMITA, as he mentioned to me before that he has a lot of friends on here that email him in private, are you one of his friends ?

[TommyV]

:D
Forumites, particularly DINAMITA and to a lesser extent Tommy V,
The IBRO is the closest thing we have to a 'definative' list, which has been compiled by a large group of boxing writers and historians, their P4P list, that is on the net, was compiled September 2006, so it is fairly up to date, so lets compare mine and DINAMITA's list against the IBRO'S list.

Experts trampie DINAMITA
SRR 0 0
Greb 2 places out 1 place out
Armstrong 1 place out 1 place out
Louis 5 places out 17 places out :roll:
Ali 4 places out 2 places out
Langford 3 places out 4 places out
Duran 2 places out 0
B.Leonard 2 places out 5 places out
Pep 1 place out 3 places out
Fitzsimmons 2 places out 4 places out
Gans 2 places out 11 places out :roll:
Charles 1 place out 7 places out
Ray Leonard 1 place out 2 places out
Wilde 7 places out 15 places out :roll:
Joffre 3 places out 8 places out
Walker 0 8 places out
Monzon 0 8 places out
Dempsey 14 places out 79 places out :yikes
J Johnson 1 place out 37 places out :yikes
Tunney 1 place out 3 places out

I have ended up 52 places out compared to IBRO's top 20 list and
DINAMITA has ended up 215 places out compared to IBRO's top 20 list :lol:

I had it smack on 3 times compared to DINAMITA 2 times.
I was only 1 place out 6 times, DINAMITA was 1 place out 2 times.

IBRO's next top 10, places 21-30, I have 6 of them in my 21-30 list,
DINAMITA has only 2 boxers in the 21-30 slot the same as the IBRO.

So there you have it, my list is reasonably close to the 'experts' list,
DINAMITA's list just does not compare to the boxing 'experts' list.

So you're list is based mainly on other 'experts' lists.

Most of those so called experts suck.

If you can find it anywhere, look at McGrain's list of top 55.

Was a while ago, but was a quality list. And see how crap your top 55 is compared to that.

TommyV can i ask you a question, are you a pen pal of DINAMITA, as he mentioned to me before that he has a lot of friends on here that email him in private, are you one of his friends ?

No.

[trampie]

[quote=trampie;3472677]DINAMITA, can you tell the forum why you do not have =
George Dixon, Parkey McFarland, Jim Driscoll,Freddie Welsh and Jim Jeffries in your top 100 ?

Packey McFarland had 104 fights in his career and lost just one, he beat Jack Britton #47 on your list twice and 1 draw, the boxrec report for one of their fights says Packey won every round accept one whch was even, Packey also had wins over Welsh, Kilbane and Britt.

George Dixon was the first black World boxing champion, ranked by Nat Fleischer as the #1 All Time greatest bantamweight.

Jim Jeffries fought in the most famous fight ever against Jack Johnson, Jeffries KO Fitzsimmons #14 on your list, not once but twice he also beat James J Corbett, Sharkey and Peter Jackson.

Freddie Welsh had a win over Benny Leonard #13 on your list, as well as wins over Ad Wolgast, Johnny Dundee, Jim Driscoll and Willie Ritchie, Ritchie is another one that does not make your list.

Jim Driscoll beat Abe Attell winning every round, he also beat George Dixon 3 times, oh i have just realised you have not got Abe Attell in your top 100 either ???

You obviously know nothing about the history of boxing !!!!

The silence is deafening DINAMITA, i will be forced to publish the above quote on any relevant future posts regarding ATG lists, unless you either admit a very large 'GAP IN YOUR KNOWLEDGE' or give reasons for ignoring the above boxers.

The choice is yours -
1] Refuse to give an answer, and continually get the quote when applicable.
2] Admit making a mistake.
3] Give reasons why the 5 boxers are not top 100.

You was initially rude towards me, then after letting yourself down by being crude about Joe Calzaghe's sister you threatened to withdraw your membership of this site, i told you dont be silly there is no need for that,
but you continue to be rude to myself, instead of passing constructive criticism of my ATG list, you are just abusive and nasty, i cant let you get away with that, so i will have to retaliate.:-( If you sabotage my posts with nastiness, i will be forced to do the same to your posts.:verysad

[ray fredrickson]

Wow!!!! A couple of my thoughts. Hagler over Roy Jones EASY!!!!Eder Jofre was not NOT overated!!! Both he &Saldivar were comebacking!! I saw (ringside )GREAT >>>>I mean great Los Angeles Bantys feathers...Becerra,Halimi,Billy Peacock(this guy could BAM BANG WOW),LITTLE RED,rATON mACIAS,dWIGHT HAWKINS(WOW MUST HAVE SEEN TO APPRECIATE,)MEDEL,,MY GOSH EDER WAS INCOMPRABLE,MAGNIFICENT &THATS SHORT ENDING :bbbIT!!!!!!

[DINAMITA]

Trampie, your list is shit. The condemnation has been universal. Writing essay after essay directed solely at me is not going to change so many peoples' opinions on your list. It's rubbish. Your rating of Jack Dempsey alone confirms this, but there are so many many many other amateurish and unjustifiable placings.

Joe Calzaghe over 350 places above Juan Manuel Marquez?

Back to the drawing board for you (or preferably not in fact, you're desperate enough as it is with this shoddy attempt).

Fail.

[DINAMITA]

PS: Still waiting for an explanation on the inclusion of William Joppy at 143rd which, after SEVERE criticism, you then changed by removing Joppy completely from a TOP FOUR HUNDRED.

Worst list placing in the history of ESB, and destroys your credibility that you removed him after being shot down in FLAMES for such an idiotic decision in the first place.

[flamengo]

Jacky what weight did she fight at ?

I may have listed Jack Blackburn too high, he has losses against Gans, Philly Jack O'Brien and Kid Norfolk, his best win seems to be against Dave Holly.

Wait a minute, are you saying Jackie should be ranked higher ?

He is probably 150 places too high.

[China_hand_Joe]

Calzaghe under Spinks and basically anyone else, including relative mediocrity like Ali?

[TonyT]

cool list...DRMULLEN s fav mini warrior of them all..lbflb ROBERTO DURAN

[BoxingFanNo1]

Jesus fucking christ.

I agree with this.

[JS63518]

de la hoya 30 odd places above pacquiao wtf

[GPater11093]

you can have ODLH 30 places higher than Pac

ODLH has done way mor ethan Pac just now

[teeto]

you can have ODLH 30 places higher than Pac

ODLH has done way mor ethan Pac just now
Not as great afighter as him, really not imo.

[GPater11093]

whos not as great ODLH>pac

or pac>ODLH

im confused teeto

[teeto]

whos not as great ODLH>pac

or pac>ODLH

im confused teeto
Oh sorry! I'll try and be clear what i mean, i do think that Pac is likely greater than Oscar, but that is possibly debatable in terms of greatness, like resume i mean. But that's not really what i meant, i was just saying that Pacquiao for me is a greater fighter, i meant more like he at his best is better than Oscar, no doubt in my mind to be honest. Whenever the Oscar thing comes up i always come to this, when you analyse their fighting/boxing/whatever, i really wouldn't take Oscar over any of the real elite level guys in history at his best weight, 147 imo. But Pacquiao belongs in the company of the best guys in and around his weight classes imo, sure there are some who people would take to school him, Pep etc, but for me that's stylistic and not a measure of greatness in h2h terms.

I know you meant Oscar better than Pac n greatness terms and not h2h, so maybe my comments wer mis-placed, but i just wanted to give an opinion on Oscar-Pac, for me Oscar tried to trick people into thinking he was at the highest level of skill, i dont believe this moreso as time has passed than ever.

[JohnThomas1]

The first thing i did was scan for Greg Page. With him not there i could go no further.

[trampie]

Its official DINAMITA's list is CRAP :D

Not only does my list check out against the IBRO's lists better than DINAMITA's but my list also checks out better than DINAMITA'S list against two of ESB 'Gods' lists, I have traced the 'Zeus' of the ESB forum, sweet_scientists top 100 list and also a disciple of sweet_scientist, McGrain's top 100 list.

I compared mine and DINAMITA's top 100 against sweet_scientist and McGrain's top 100 and this is what i found :-

I had 11 boxers in my top 100 that was not in sweet_scientist's top 100.
DINAMITA had 20 boxers in his top 100 that was not in sweet_scientists top 100.

I had 20 boxers not in McGrain's top 100, DINAMITA had 20 boxers not in McGrains top 100.

I was advised by TommyV to check out McGrains list, when i found it, McGrain gave and i quote ''a special thanks to Sweet Scientist'', Sweet Scientist had given McGrain suggestions for his list.

So there we have it, a lesson for a lot of people on this thread just because DINAMITA has done over 7000 posts and i have done only 200 and DINAMITA is aggressive and opinionated, it does not mean he is right, do not follow his lead like sheep as you will look as foolish as he does now ?

I am no expert but i knew my list was not 'shit' as it checked out better than DINAMITA's list against IBRO's list,
but thanks to TommyV i now know my list checks out better than DINAMITA's list compared to sweet_scientist's list and is on a par with DINAMITA's list compared to McGrain's list .:lol:

[teeto]

I havent really looked and am not taking sides or anything, but i think the placement of fighters within the list has more to do with it than simply alike fighters that are in the list.

[trampie]

sweet_scientist has Packey McFarland at #37
McGrain has Packey McFarland #57
trampie has Packey McFarland #43
DINAMITA does not have Packey McFarland in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Jim Driscoll at #36
McGrain has Jim Driscoll at #69
trampie has Jim Driscoll at #45
DINAMITA does not have Jim Driscoll in his top 100

sweet_scientist has George Dixon at #49
McGrain has George Dixon at #31
trampie has George Dixon at #35
DINAMITA does not have George Dixon in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Abe Attell at #71
McGrain has Abe Attell at #56
trampie has Abe Attell at #65
DINAMITA does not have Abe Attell in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Beau Jack at #85
McGrain has Beau Jack at #81
trampie has Beau Jack at #78
DINAMITA does not have Beau Jack in his top 100

Some of these boxers are top 50 ATG, not boxers in the 90's that may just miss the top 100 cut on some lists ? :roll:

[teeto]

sweet_scientist has Packey McFarland at #37
McGrain has Packey McFarland #57
trampie has Packey McFarland #43
DINAMITA does not have Packey McFarland in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Jim Driscoll at #36
McGrain has Jim Driscoll at #69
trampie has Jim Driscoll at #45
DINAMITA does not have Jim Driscoll in his top 100

sweet_scientist has George Dixon at #49
McGrain has George Dixon at #31
trampie has George Dixon at #35
DINAMITA does not have George Dixon in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Abe Attell at #71
McGrain has Abe Attell at #56
trampie has Abe Attell at #65
DINAMITA does not have Abe Attell in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Beau Jack at #85
McGrain has Beau Jack at #81
trampie has Beau Jack at #78
DINAMITA does not have Beau Jack in his top 100

Some of these boxers are top 50 ATG, not boxers in the 90's that may just miss the top 100 cut on some lists ? :roll:
Sounds pretty decent

[trampie]

sweet_scientist has Hagler above Hopkins
McGrain has Hagler above Hopkins
trampie has Hagler above Hopkins
DINAMITA ranks Hopkins above Marvelous Marvin :roll:

sweet_scientist has Sugar Ray Leonard above Monzon
McGrain has Sugar Ray Leonard above Monzon
trampie has Sugar Ray Leonard above Monzon
DINAMITA has Monzon above Sugar Ray :nono

[trampie]

There was an Irish boxer, Steve Collins that used to say 'don't believe the hype, believe in the man'.
There is a lot of hype and no substance to DINAMITA :-(

[teeto]

Collins was the shit, tough man i was a fan when i was a kid. Now ive got older ive seen the limits though.

[trampie]

I agree, he was very tough but like you say limited.

[trampie]

Its official DINAMITA's list is CRAP :D

Not only does my list check out against the IBRO's lists better than DINAMITA's but my list also checks out better than DINAMITA'S list against two of ESB 'Gods' lists, I have traced the 'Zeus' of the ESB forum, sweet_scientists top 100 list and also a disciple of sweet_scientist, McGrain's top 100 list.

I compared mine and DINAMITA's top 100 against sweet_scientist and McGrain's top 100 and this is what i found :-

I had 11 boxers in my top 100 that was not in sweet_scientist's top 100.
DINAMITA had 20 boxers in his top 100 that was not in sweet_scientists top 100.

I had 20 boxers not in McGrain's top 100, DINAMITA had 20 boxers not in McGrains top 100.

I was advised by TommyV to check out McGrains list, when i found it, McGrain gave and i quote ''a special thanks to Sweet Scientist'', Sweet Scientist had given McGrain suggestions for his list.

So there we have it, a lesson for a lot of people on this thread just because DINAMITA has done over 7000 posts and i have done only 200 and DINAMITA is aggressive and opinionated, it does not mean he is right, do not follow his lead like sheep as you will look as foolish as he does now ?

I am no expert but i knew my list was not 'shit' as it checked out better than DINAMITA's list against IBRO's list,
but thanks to TommyV i now know my list checks out better than DINAMITA's list compared to sweet_scientist's list and is on a par with DINAMITA's list compared to McGrain's list .:lol:

What is your comment to this DINAMITA {and TommyV and BadJuju83} :hi:

[trampie]

Sounds pretty decent

sweet_scientist has Packey McFarland at #37
McGrain has Packey McFarland #57
trampie has Packey McFarland #43
DINAMITA does not have Packey McFarland in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Jim Driscoll at #36
McGrain has Jim Driscoll at #69
trampie has Jim Driscoll at #45
DINAMITA does not have Jim Driscoll in his top 100

sweet_scientist has George Dixon at #49
McGrain has George Dixon at #31
trampie has George Dixon at #35
DINAMITA does not have George Dixon in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Abe Attell at #71
McGrain has Abe Attell at #56
trampie has Abe Attell at #65
DINAMITA does not have Abe Attell in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Beau Jack at #85
McGrain has Beau Jack at #81
trampie has Beau Jack at #78
DINAMITA does not have Beau Jack in his top 100

Some of these boxers are top 50 ATG, not boxers in the 90's that may just miss the top 100 cut on some lists ? :roll:

What is your comment to this DINAMITA

[trampie]

DINAMITA, do you think the International Boxing Research Organization list is shit ?

DINAMITA, do you think sweet_scientist list is shit ?

DINAMITA, do you think McGrain list is shit ?

My list compares with IBRO's list much better than your list. :D
My list compares with sweet_scientist list much better than your list.:D
My list compares with McGrains list as well as your list.:roll:

[DINAMITA]

Erm, is anyone else starting to think that Trampie is actually a raving lunatic?

I haven't been online for less than 48 hours, and this guy has basically filled two pages with posts about how his list is better than mine, and he has worked scarily hard to try and prove it, clearly putting in hours of work comparing many lists?

Trampie: Your list is rubbish.

Mounting a hate campaign against me is not going to change the opinions of me, Sweet Pea, Tommy V, BadJuju, and all the many many MANY others who called it as junk when it was only a top 100, then a top 200, and now this pointless and bizarre monstrosity we have before us.

I don't need to spend hours sweating away trying to discredit your list like a desperate maniac like you did to mine, all I need to say is:

Jimmy Wilde 5 places above Ezzard Charles, and Charles not in the top 10?

Debate over. You lose. :good

[teeto]

See Trample, i told you i never read your list and you tried to suck me in giving me the positives of your list to pull the wool over my eyes. But DINAMITA just clearly outlined a big negative in Wilde being 5 above Charles. Not good man, shame on you dawg!

[teeto]

Nar i was just kidding Trampie, just glanced at the lit, not all that bad. Some badass mistakes there are, but hey, i havent put together a 400, must have took forever.

[DINAMITA]

See Trample, i told you i never read your list and you tried to suck me in giving me the positives of your list to pull the wool over my eyes. But DINAMITA just clearly outlined a big negative in Wilde being 5 above Charles. Not good man, shame on you dawg!

His placings of Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson are worse, but the Wilde over Charles decision is one that gets me personally because I am a big Charles fan.

I mean, Wilde 5 places above Charles? Has Trampie ever heard of a little thing called resume??

(there are many other awful choices if you can be bothered going through his list...

- Marvin Hagler above Archie Moore and Mickey Walker (no, he definitely has not heard of resume it seems)

- Larry Holmes above guys like Emile Griffith, Alexis Arguello & Kid Gavilan - totally unjustifiable

- Marciano, J.Dempsey, J.Johnson have all clearly been rated on how famous they are, as their positions are far too high

- Joe Calzaghe is almost SEVENTY places above Manny Pacquiao and at least THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY places above Juan Manuel Marquez. So the Wilde decision it seems is indicative of a little Welsh bias. I can accept anyone thinking Calzaghe is greater than Pac or JMM even though I would disagree, but the gaps between Cal and Pac/Marquez are ludicrous

- Brace yourself... Hamed (185th), Junior Jones, Sharmba Mitchell and Cory Spinks are all higher than Wlad Klitschko AND are all in this list whereas Juan Manuel Marquez doesn't make it at all!! And it's not just an oversight, Trampie says elsewhere on this thread that JMM didn't make the cut!!

There are many other weak choices, but it would take hours to go through them all, and I don't have the energy or interest.

:admin Jones, Spinks, Mitchell all make it comfortably and JMM doesn't even make it!?!?! I'm sorry, but I cannot take such a list seriously at all.

Garbage.


PS: Trampie posted a top 200 a couple of months back that had Ricky Hatton at 101st and William Joppy at 143rd, and after he received heavy condemnation for such appalling choices, he posted a new list and said that one was a "joke list" designed to show people that Joe Calzaghe deserved to be included in a top 100 (it must not occurred to him that he could have just made a thread saying "do you agree Calzaghe is a top 100 fighter?", or just posted a top 100 - what was the point of the other 100 if the intention of the thread was to say Calzaghe deserved to be in a top 100?!).

However, the second top 200 (apparently his "real" opinion) had Calzaghe far higher than the 1st one (so why couldn't he just have posted his "real" opinion first then??). Confused? So was everyone who remembered the first list. I think we have a cut n paste artiste on our hands here... A pathological liar too.

[teeto]

Haha, i dont wanna get involved man that's why im trying to keep both you guys happy.

By the way, what the fuk, Calzaghe that much above Manny Pacquiao?? Yeah, you can say that you think Joe was better, a GREATR FIGHTER, but when it comes to these things you gotta think of resume, and also Pac did some great things in terms of achievement.

[DINAMITA]

Haha, i dont wanna get involved man that's why im trying to keep both you guys happy.

By the way, what the fuk, Calzaghe that much above Manny Pacquiao?? Yeah, you can say that you think Joe was better, a GREATR FIGHTER, but when it comes to these things you gotta think of resume, and also Pac did some great things in terms of achievement.

But you can clearly see that by his placings (Hagler over Archie Moore, Wilde over Charles, and many more) that Trampie doesn't understand resume, hence the gap between Cal and Pac.

Another little gem I just noticed, JEFF HARDING is above SUMBU KALAMBAY!!!! There is no way Trampie even knows who Sumbu Kalambay is on this evidence.

[trampie]

You are the only one waging a hate campaign not me. :roll:

[trampie]

Its official DINAMITA's list is CRAP :D

Not only does my list check out against the IBRO's lists better than DINAMITA's but my list also checks out better than DINAMITA'S list against two of ESB 'Gods' lists, I have traced the 'Zeus' of the ESB forum, sweet_scientists top 100 list and also a disciple of sweet_scientist, McGrain's top 100 list.

I compared mine and DINAMITA's top 100 against sweet_scientist and McGrain's top 100 and this is what i found :-

I had 11 boxers in my top 100 that was not in sweet_scientist's top 100.
DINAMITA had 20 boxers in his top 100 that was not in sweet_scientists top 100.

I had 20 boxers not in McGrain's top 100, DINAMITA had 20 boxers not in McGrains top 100.

I was advised by TommyV to check out McGrains list, when i found it, McGrain gave and i quote ''a special thanks to Sweet Scientist'', Sweet Scientist had given McGrain suggestions for his list.

So there we have it, a lesson for a lot of people on this thread just because DINAMITA has done over 7000 posts and i have done only 200 and DINAMITA is aggressive and opinionated, it does not mean he is right, do not follow his lead like sheep as you will look as foolish as he does now ?

I am no expert but i knew my list was not 'shit' as it checked out better than DINAMITA's list against IBRO's list,
but thanks to TommyV i now know my list checks out better than DINAMITA's list compared to sweet_scientist's list and is on a par with DINAMITA's list compared to McGrain's list .:lol:

Still awaiting your comments DINAMITA

[trampie]

sweet_scientist has Packey McFarland at #37
McGrain has Packey McFarland #57
trampie has Packey McFarland #43
DINAMITA does not have Packey McFarland in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Jim Driscoll at #36
McGrain has Jim Driscoll at #69
trampie has Jim Driscoll at #45
DINAMITA does not have Jim Driscoll in his top 100

sweet_scientist has George Dixon at #49
McGrain has George Dixon at #31
trampie has George Dixon at #35
DINAMITA does not have George Dixon in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Abe Attell at #71
McGrain has Abe Attell at #56
trampie has Abe Attell at #65
DINAMITA does not have Abe Attell in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Beau Jack at #85
McGrain has Beau Jack at #81
trampie has Beau Jack at #78
DINAMITA does not have Beau Jack in his top 100

Some of these boxers are top 50 ATG, not boxers in the 90's that may just miss the top 100 cut on some lists ? :roll:

Still awaiting your comments DINAMITA

[trampie]

sweet_scientist has Hagler above Hopkins
McGrain has Hagler above Hopkins
trampie has Hagler above Hopkins
DINAMITA ranks Hopkins above Marvelous Marvin :roll:

sweet_scientist has Sugar Ray Leonard above Monzon
McGrain has Sugar Ray Leonard above Monzon
trampie has Sugar Ray Leonard above Monzon
DINAMITA has Monzon above Sugar Ray :nono

Still awaiting your comments DINAMITA

[trampie]

DINAMITA, do you think the International Boxing Research Organization list is shit ?

DINAMITA, do you think sweet_scientist list is shit ?

DINAMITA, do you think McGrain list is shit ?

My list compares with IBRO's list much better than your list. :D
My list compares with sweet_scientist list much better than your list.:D
My list compares with McGrains list as well as your list.:roll:

Still awaiting your comments DINAMITA

[sweet_scientist]

Trampie, I won’t look at your top 100 because you’ve probably sourced it from others and made it look semi respectable, but you seem to have some utterly illogical placings which tend to make me think that you don’t really know that much about the sport, and are merely copying lists that you see about the place.


For instance, how can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Acelino Freitas over Johnny Famechon?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Juan Martin Coggi or Johnny Nelson over Meldrick Taylor?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Alfonso Zamora over Kostya Tszyu?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Fabrice Tiozzo over someone like Buddy McGirt?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Barry McGuigan over someone like Jeff Fenech?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Pone Kingpetch 150 odd places above someone like Hiroyuki Ebihara?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Khaosai Galaxy over Lupe Pintor?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Lloyd Honeyghan 60 places over Don Curry?

There’s literally hundreds of other examples I could bring up but these will do to illustrate my point.

Making lists is a fun thing to do, and I congratulate you on your endeavour to make such a long, long list, but a little friendly advice mate: You should learn to walk before you attempt to fly. Spend a little more time learning about fighters and their accomplishments before attempting something so impossible at the best of times.

And don’t simply copy-cat other posters’ lists on boxing forums. Look at them, question them, and come to your own understanding based on KNOWLEDGE of the game, not some random shuffling.

Cheers.

[DINAMITA]

His placings of Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson are worse, but the Wilde over Charles decision is one that gets me personally because I am a big Charles fan.

I mean, Wilde 5 places above Charles? Has Trampie ever heard of a little thing called resume??

(there are many other awful choices if you can be bothered going through his list...

- Marvin Hagler above Archie Moore and Mickey Walker (no, he definitely has not heard of resume it seems)

- Larry Holmes above guys like Emile Griffith, Alexis Arguello & Kid Gavilan - totally unjustifiable

- Marciano, J.Dempsey, J.Johnson have all clearly been rated on how famous they are, as their positions are far too high

- Joe Calzaghe is almost SEVENTY places above Manny Pacquiao and at least THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY places above Juan Manuel Marquez. So the Wilde decision it seems is indicative of a little Welsh bias. I can accept anyone thinking Calzaghe is greater than Pac or JMM even though I would disagree, but the gaps between Cal and Pac/Marquez are ludicrous

- Brace yourself... Hamed (185th), Junior Jones, Sharmba Mitchell and Cory Spinks are all higher than Wlad Klitschko AND are all in this list whereas Juan Manuel Marquez doesn't make it at all!! And it's not just an oversight, Trampie says elsewhere on this thread that JMM didn't make the cut!!

There are many other weak choices, but it would take hours to go through them all, and I don't have the energy or interest.

:admin Jones, Spinks, Mitchell all make it comfortably and JMM doesn't even make it!?!?! I'm sorry, but I cannot take such a list seriously at all.

Garbage.


PS: Trampie posted a top 200 a couple of months back that had Ricky Hatton at 101st and William Joppy at 143rd, and after he received heavy condemnation for such appalling choices, he posted a new list and said that one was a "joke list" designed to show people that Joe Calzaghe deserved to be included in a top 100 (it must not occurred to him that he could have just made a thread saying "do you agree Calzaghe is a top 100 fighter?", or just posted a top 100 - what was the point of the other 100 if the intention of the thread was to say Calzaghe deserved to be in a top 100?!).

However, the second top 200 (apparently his "real" opinion) had Calzaghe far higher than the 1st one (so why couldn't he just have posted his "real" opinion first then??). Confused? So was everyone who remembered the first list. I think we have a cut n paste artiste on our hands here... A pathological liar too.

No answer to any of this Trampie? Didn't think so.

[DINAMITA]

Trampie, I won’t look at your top 100 because you’ve probably sourced it from others and made it look semi respectable, but you seem to have some utterly illogical placings which tend to make me think that you don’t really know that much about the sport, and are merely copying lists that you see about the place.


For instance, how can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Acelino Freitas over Johnny Famechon?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Juan Martin Coggi or Johnny Nelson over Meldrick Taylor?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Alfonso Zamora over Kostya Tszyu?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Fabrice Tiozzo over someone like Buddy McGirt?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Barry McGuigan over someone like Jeff Fenech?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Pone Kingpetch 150 odd places above someone like Hiroyuki Ebihara?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Khaosai Galaxy over Lupe Pintor?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Lloyd Honeyghan 60 places over Don Curry?

There’s literally hundreds of other examples I could bring up but these will do to illustrate my point.

Making lists is a fun thing to do, and I congratulate you on your endeavour to make such a long, long list, but a little friendly advice mate: You should learn to walk before you attempt to fly. Spend a little more time learning about fighters and their accomplishments before attempting something so impossible at the best of times.

And don’t simply copy-cat other posters’ lists on boxing forums. Look at them, question them, and come to your own understanding based on KNOWLEDGE of the game, not some random shuffling.

Cheers.





Exactly what I've been telling him for weeks.

Junior Jones, Cory Spinks and Sharmba Mitchell ranked above Wladimir Klitschko and Juan Manuel Marquez? JEFF HARDING over Sumbu Kalambay??

I refuse to believe anyone who has even been a casual fan of boxing in the past 20 years can think that.

The Classic consensus has spoken. Trampie: your list is dire. :good

[DINAMITA]

Trampie, I won’t look at your top 100 because you’ve probably sourced it from others and made it look semi respectable, but you seem to have some utterly illogical placings which tend to make me think that you don’t really know that much about the sport, and are merely copying lists that you see about the place.


For instance, how can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Acelino Freitas over Johnny Famechon?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Juan Martin Coggi or Johnny Nelson over Meldrick Taylor?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Alfonso Zamora over Kostya Tszyu?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Fabrice Tiozzo over someone like Buddy McGirt?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Barry McGuigan over someone like Jeff Fenech?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Pone Kingpetch 150 odd places above someone like Hiroyuki Ebihara?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Khaosai Galaxy over Lupe Pintor?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Lloyd Honeyghan 60 places over Don Curry?

There’s literally hundreds of other examples I could bring up but these will do to illustrate my point.

Making lists is a fun thing to do, and I congratulate you on your endeavour to make such a long, long list, but a little friendly advice mate: You should learn to walk before you attempt to fly. Spend a little more time learning about fighters and their accomplishments before attempting something so impossible at the best of times.

And don’t simply copy-cat other posters’ lists on boxing forums. Look at them, question them, and come to your own understanding based on KNOWLEDGE of the game, not some random shuffling.

Cheers.






:lol: This really will BREAK Trampie's desperate lack of belief in himself, as his comments about "me and Sweetscientist sing from the same hymn sheet" in an attempt to show how good his own list is - how embarrassing does that look now!? :oops:

[trampie]

The top 100 is in some sort of order,places 100-200 is difficult to categorize and places 200-400 is virtually impossible to rank in order. I admit the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers, if i am missing somebody or i have a 'doubler' or there a rankings that are clearly wrong, let me know and i will change them, all comments welcome.

DINAMITA can you read :roll:, the above passage is from the 1st post of the thread.

TOP 100 - ''IN SOME SORT OF ORDER''
PLACES 100-200 - ''DIFFICULT TO CATEGORIZE''
PLACES 200-400 - ''VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO RANK''

Why are you bumping your gums about boxers way outside the top100 :roll:,
the placings that are ''in some kind of order'' are the top 100, and for the umpteenth time, my top 100 stands up better than your top 100 in comparison to sweet_scientist's list and my top 30 stands up better than your top 30 incomparison to IBRO's top 30.:D

So if you think my placings between 200-400 are poor, i never claimed otherwise , note the quote from the original post '' i admit the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers''.

Some of your points concerning some of boxers ranked between 200-400 may need addressing, so you can advise me on where you think the likes of Kalambay, Honeyghan and Pintor should rank ?.

So what about my concerns over your top 100 then, you have not answered any of them yet, so i will list them again for you in the post below.

[trampie]

sweet_scientist has Packey McFarland at #37
McGrain has Packey McFarland #57
trampie has Packey McFarland #43
DINAMITA does not have Packey McFarland in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Jim Driscoll at #36
McGrain has Jim Driscoll at #69
trampie has Jim Driscoll at #45
DINAMITA does not have Jim Driscoll in his top 100

sweet_scientist has George Dixon at #49
McGrain has George Dixon at #31
trampie has George Dixon at #35
DINAMITA does not have George Dixon in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Abe Attell at #71
McGrain has Abe Attell at #56
trampie has Abe Attell at #65
DINAMITA does not have Abe Attell in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Beau Jack at #85
McGrain has Beau Jack at #81
trampie has Beau Jack at #78
DINAMITA does not have Beau Jack in his top 100

Some of these boxers are top 50 ATG, not boxers in the 90's that may just miss the top 100 cut on some lists ? :roll:

Like i said on post 99 DINAMITA, you tell me where the likes of Kalambay,Honeyghan and Pintor should be ranked and i will look at changing the rankings, now its your turn, can you tell me why the above 5 boxers are not in your top 100, when sweet_scientist and McGrain obviously think like it do, that they belong on the list ?
Thanks in advance, i look forward to your reply.:good

[trampie]

The top 100 is in some sort of order,places 100-200 is difficult to categorize and places 200-400 is virtually impossible to rank in order. I admit the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers, if i am missing somebody or i have a 'doubler' or there a rankings that are clearly wrong, let me know and i will change them, all comments welcome.

The above passage is from the 1st post of the thread.

TOP 100 - ''IN SOME SORT OF ORDER''
PLACES 100-200 - ''DIFFICULT TO CATEGORIZE''
PLACES 200-400 - ''VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO RANK''

Note the quote from the original post '' i admit the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers''.


sweet_scientist just noticed your recent post, did you read the foot note at the bottom of the list of 400 boxers on the original post ???
between places 100-200 ''DIFFICULT'' and between places 200-400 ''VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE'' did you not notice that i admitted ''the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers''.

There has been no copying of lists, you will not find a top 200 on the net, leave alone a top 400, i did use the IBRO lists as a check, to try and make sure that i did not leave any top flight boxers off the list, i would say in total that they would only have about 150 boxers listed.

You yourself left Jim Jeffries off your list, he is #74 on my list, a real schoolboy error !!! on your part , in fairness you did reply by saying ''he slipped through my clutchess he belongs''.

Pasted below are my comments about your list :-
Benny Leonard #4 {no problem, i like Benny underrated by most}
Bob Fitzsimmons #34 {a bit low ?}
Mickey Walker #24 {i was critized for having him at #18}
Harry Wills {outside the top 115 ?}
Marvin Hagler #13 {very high ?}
Lennox Lewis #114 {very low ?}
Manny Pacquaio {nowhere to be seen in the top 218, currently i think he is over rated}
James J Jeffries {not in top 218, i know boxrec have him listed as only having 21 fights {18 wins, 2 draws and 1 defeat}, 2 wins against Fitzsimmons, and 2 wins over both James J Corbett and Tom Sharkey as well as a win against Peter Jackson, his only loss coming against Jack Johnson in one of the most famous fights ever after been retired for about 6 years.}

So if you are worried i have copied your list, worry no more, everyone of my remarks above is reflected on my list, i have Fitzsimmons #12 you have him at #34 and i have Lennox Lewis #47 you have him at #114, by and large i like your list but your ranking of those two boxers is pathetic, even DINAMITA has Fitzsimmons #14 and Lennox Lewis #37, although we have a remarkable high number of the same boxers in our top 100, the order is quite different and if i was to be influenced by anybody, with respect it would not be by you.
You are obviously American and your ranking of British boxers is way out, as well your rankings of Fitzsimmons and Lewis's you have the 'Mighty Atom' ranked to high and Freddie Welsh an incredible #105, when he beat Jim Driscoll #36 on your list :nut {i now Driscoll was DQ'd, but he was losing the fight anyway thats why he stuck the head in},Freddie Welsh also had a win over Benny Leonard #4 on your list, the more i look at these illogical placings the more i think you should spend some time learning about different fighters and their accomplishments, no offence meant just some friendly advice.:lol:

[DINAMITA]

Trampie, you really are coming across as a desperate obsessive now. Your list is dire, the consensus have spoken, and persistently arguing about it is not going to change anyone's mind. The litany of AWFUL choices to be found on this thread are just too bad and too numerous to defend. Just let it go mate, and save your flimsy credibility so you will taken seriously on other threads. Really crap list. Move on.

[sweet_scientist]

sweet_scientist just noticed your recent post, did you read the foot note at the bottom of the list of 400 boxers on the original post ???
between places 100-200 ''DIFFICULT'' and between places 200-400 ''VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE'' did you not notice that i admitted ''the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers''.

There has been no copying of lists, you will not find a top 200 on the net, leave alone a top 400, i did use the IBRO lists as a check, to try and make sure that i did not leave any top flight boxers off the list, i would say in total that they would only have about 150 boxers listed.

You yourself left Jim Jeffries off your list, he is #74 on my list, a real schoolboy error !!! on your part , in fairness you did reply by saying ''he slipped through my clutchess he belongs''.

Pasted below are my comments about your list :-
Benny Leonard #4 {no problem, i like Benny underrated by most}
Bob Fitzsimmons #34 {a bit low ?}
Mickey Walker #24 {i was critized for having him at #18}
Harry Wills {outside the top 115 ?}
Marvin Hagler #13 {very high ?}
Lennox Lewis #114 {very low ?}
Manny Pacquaio {nowhere to be seen in the top 218, currently i think he is over rated}
James J Jeffries {not in top 218, i know boxrec have him listed as only having 21 fights {18 wins, 2 draws and 1 defeat}, 2 wins against Fitzsimmons, and 2 wins over both James J Corbett and Tom Sharkey as well as a win against Peter Jackson, his only loss coming against Jack Johnson in one of the most famous fights ever after been retired for about 6 years.}

So if you are worried i have copied your list, worry no more, everyone of my remarks above is reflected on my list, i have Fitzsimmons #12 you have him at #34 and i have Lennox Lewis #47 you have him at #114, by and large i like your list but your ranking of those two boxers is pathetic, even DINAMITA has Fitzsimmons #14 and Lennox Lewis #37, although we have a remarkable high number of the same boxers in our top 100, the order is quite different and if i was to be influenced by anybody, with respect it would not be by you.
You are obviously American and your ranking of British boxers is way out, as well your rankings of Fitzsimmons and Lewis's you have the 'Mighty Atom' ranked to high and Freddie Welsh an incredible #105, when he beat Jim Driscoll #36 on your list :nut {i now Driscoll was DQ'd, but he was losing the fight anyway thats why he stuck the head in},Freddie Welsh also had a win over Benny Leonard #4 on your list, the more i look at these illogical placings the more i think you should spend some time learning about different fighters and their accomplishments, no offence meant just some friendly advice.:lol:

So basically your top 100 or so is in order and then you were just throwing names out there? With what goal? That others would try and put them in order for you?

Or do you think that the guys from 200-400 are interchangeable, given their 'impossibility' to rank? To me it looked like they had SOME order, but it also had plenty of WTF'ness to it.

Are you hoping for someone to help you order them, or comment on them? Mate WHERE THE FUCK to begin! :lol:

How about you give us an attempt to order them before throwing them out there, and then we'll have a talk, deal?

About my list, sure there's errors and oversights, as there is on everyone's, I'm not claiming to be perfect by a long shot.

I will say though that Freddie Welsh was a lightweight, and Jim Driscoll was a featherweight. You're not going to tell me you rank Sammy Angott over Willie Pep are you?

Welsh has a great resume, fought everyone under the sun, but he lost to plenty of guys too, and on the whole, I think Jim had the better skills of the two, and was regarded the better fighter of the two by many who saw plenty of both.

By the way, I'm not American, I'm Australian.

[trampie]

sweet_scientist, YES YES YES AND YES AGAIN, you have got it, by the way i am not taking the piss or mucking about, you have got it :happy

My top 100 is in order, YES

I did want people to advise me how to rank the boxers between 200-400 , YES

They are in a very rough order, {200-400} YES

Not only would i like you boys to 'order' them, that is what i always wanted, YES

Sorry for the slow responce been walking the dog, where in Oz are you from ? been over there a couple of times, do you like Rugby and Cricket ?

[trampie]

DINAMITA there is going to be no moving on , my list {top 100} is twice as good as your list {FACT}

When are you going to justify to this forum not having,
Dixon,McFarland,Driscoll,Attell and Beau Jack in your top 100 ?

Come on we are still waiting, anybody can criticise like you are doing ?

Tell everybody why those 5 boxers should not be in a top 100 ?

[trampie]

sweet_scientist has Packey McFarland at #37
McGrain has Packey McFarland #57
trampie has Packey McFarland #43
DINAMITA does not have Packey McFarland in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Jim Driscoll at #36
McGrain has Jim Driscoll at #69
trampie has Jim Driscoll at #45
DINAMITA does not have Jim Driscoll in his top 100

sweet_scientist has George Dixon at #49
McGrain has George Dixon at #31
trampie has George Dixon at #35
DINAMITA does not have George Dixon in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Abe Attell at #71
McGrain has Abe Attell at #56
trampie has Abe Attell at #65
DINAMITA does not have Abe Attell in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Beau Jack at #85
McGrain has Beau Jack at #81
trampie has Beau Jack at #78
DINAMITA does not have Beau Jack in his top 100

Some of these boxers are top 50 ATG, not boxers in the 90's that may just miss the top 100 cut on some lists ? :roll:

DINAMITA, Lets cut the crap and stop pussey footing around,
If i am wrong about something i will admit it, i have said on more than one occasion that i will change my list if any mistakes are pointed out to me.

Whist having a pop at some of sweet_scientists picks or lack of picks as the case my be, he responded to the {friendly} criticism of his list with the following quote,
''About my list, sure there's errors and oversights, as there is on everyone's, I'm not claiming to be perfect by a long shot''.

Lets see if you have got any balls ?, lets see how much of a man you are ? either admit you made an error in not picking those 5 boxers or defend your position, if you defend your position that either some or all are not good enough to be in a top 100, thats fine.

I will be honest i am trying to get you to either admit you made a mistake, which i would do, i geniunely would or defend your position, which would put you out of sink with some well known posters on here, of course you already realise that, thats why you will not answer the question.

By not answering the question everybody reading this thread knows the score, you have made a mistake and you are not man enough to admit it.

Because of your history of rudeness and nastyness towards me and my threads {criticism fine, continual nastyness not fine} i will throw the fact you have not got these boxers in your top 100 into every relevant thread you that you make, if you do not answer the question.
If you are man enough to answer the question i will move on as you put it, the choice is yours .:good

[DINAMITA]

Because of your history of rudeness and nastyness towards me and my threads {criticism fine, continual nastyness not fine} i will throw the fact you have not got these boxers in your top 100 into every relevant thread you that you make, if you do not answer the question.
If you are man enough to answer the question i will move on as you put it, the choice is yours .:good

Trampie, I really have lost interest in this. There is more to this site than lists you know. Your list went down like a cheap hooker, but that's not the be all and end all of ESB. Move on, enjoy some other different threads.

If you do troll around after me asking me these questions, I probably will get so irritated by it I will cave and give you the explanations you so desire, but at the moment I am both too stubborn to be strong-armed by you, and too sick of this constant tit-for-tat about your rubbish list to want to get into another long debate.

If you can tell the truth about your first list that had Hatton at 101, Joppy at 143, and included guys like Kessler and Bute, then I will talk - and the truth is NOT that it was a joke list about Joe Calzaghe, don't shame yourself any further with that absolutely WOEFUL lie.

If you can also provide a satisfactory explanation why you think Junior Jones, Cory Spinks and Sharmba Mitchell deserve to be flying high above Juan Manuel Marquez and Wladimir Klitschko, then I will talk.

But until these things happen, you are just a fraud and a liar who does not deserve to be indulged in serious debate.

And if you troll me, with God as my witness let the Joppy Mania begin!!!!!! :good

[trampie]

DINAMITA, just like i thought you have not got the balls to answer the question, it was your choice. Because of your history of rudeness and nastyness towards me and my threads {criticism fine, continual nastyness not fine} i will throw the fact you have not got these boxers in your top 100 into every relevant thread you that you make { if you do not answer the question}.

By not answering the question everybody reading this thread knows the score, you have made a mistake and you are not man enough to admit it.

Think of the consequences, you hijacking my threads and me hijacking your threads who needs ESB more, me or you ???
Dont think about offering a truce, as it would be akin to murdering somebody and then saying your sorry, dont send me to jail lets call it quits, dont be nasty back to me, because i dont like it.

You have left the door open by saying you will get 'so irritated that you will cave in and give you the explanations i desire, so come on be a man admit your mistakes {like the rest of us do} or defend your postion on the 5 boxers, you will gain some respect if you can bring yourself to answer,
if not be prepared to have your threads spoilt, you can spoilt my threads in retaliation, but we both know it will hurt you far more than it hurts me.
Eagerly awaiting your reply.

[DINAMITA]

DINAMITA, just like i thought you have not got the balls to answer the question, it was your choice. Because of your history of rudeness and nastyness towards me and my threads {criticism fine, continual nastyness not fine} i will throw the fact you have not got these boxers in your top 100 into every relevant thread you that you make { if you do not answer the question}.

Go for it. You'll wish you hadn't though, as we are both washed away in a wave of Joppy Mania.

By not answering the question everybody reading this thread knows the score, you have made a mistake and you are not man enough to admit it.

I have not made a mistake, I put forward my own opinion and I stand by it. However, I will not be strong-armed by you into explaining myself until you have been man enough to answer the questions I set forth for you in my last post.

Think of the consequences, you hijacking my threads and me hijacking your threads who needs ESB more, me or you ???

I know I don't need ESB, but I enjoy it very much. I know that you desperately crave acceptance, approval, validation, and the means you seek this is through posting lists on ESB, so of us both I would say you need the site more.

Dont think about offering a truce, as it would be akin to murdering somebody and then saying your sorry, dont send me to jail lets call it quits, dont be nasty back to me, because i dont like it.

I have no intention of offering a truce. I do not respect you, I do not respect your opinion, I do not respect your conduct, I have no interest in a friendship.

You have left the door open by saying you will get 'so irritated that you will cave in and give you the explanations i desire, so come on be a man admit your mistakes {like the rest of us do}

My opinion is not a mistake, it is my opinion.

Like the rest of us do?!?! :lol: You have not answered any of the questions I asked of you in my last post. Until you do, you are not worthy of serious debate.

or defend your postion on the 5 boxers,

An opinion does not require defence, it requires only explanation. And you do not deserve explanation until you have answered the questions set forth in my last post.

you will gain some respect if you can bring yourself to answer,

I have absolutely no interest in gaining respect from you.

My peers on this site already respect me, I have nothing to prove to anyone.

if not be prepared to have your threads spoilt, you can spoilt my threads in retaliation, but we both know it will hurt you far more than it hurts me.
Eagerly awaiting your reply.

It will not hurt me in the slightest. I will never bend to threats. If this is the way you want to go about things rather than answering the questions set forth in my last post, then let the games begin!! :good

[trampie]

If you can tell the truth about your first list that had Hatton at 101, Joppy at 143, and included guys like Kessler and Bute, then I will talk - and the truth is NOT that it was a joke list about Joe Calzaghe, don't shame yourself any further with that absolutely WOEFUL lie.

If you can also provide a satisfactory explanation why you think Junior Jones, Cory Spinks and Sharmba Mitchell deserve to be flying high above Juan Manuel Marquez and Wladimir Klitschko, then I will talk.



DINAMITA the truth about the list showing Hatton #101 and Joppy #143 was because after the Hopkins/Calzaghe bout, i could not believe the disrespect towards Calzaghe on this site at that time, so i created a list to show haters on the general 'boxing forum' look this is where Calzaghe stands in an all time list, it had to be a top 200 because at the time, some people were saying he would not make their top 100 {fair enough}, i figured that even the most biased of posters would be hard pressed not to have him in a top 200, that would be enough to make some haters stop and think top 200 all time 'he must be good', and give the boxer some respect.
If i had done a bona-fide list i would have ended up with lots of old boxers that most of the people that i was targeting would not have heard of and i would have had virtually no responce, so i needed a list with the best of the current crop as well as the all time greats to stimulate conversation, interest, debate etc.

Thats the truth behind the 'impossible task' thread, if you dont believe me and think that i thought that Hatton,Joppy,Kessler and Bute are between 100-200 all time greats, then fine, tell the forum in your reply just that .

Now to the interesting bit, like i said in the original post and you now know from my cutting and pasting that the TOP 100 - ''IN SOME SORT OF ORDER''
PLACES 100-200 - ''DIFFICULT TO CATEGORIZE''
PLACES 200-400 - ''VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO RANK''

All the boxers you mention have 'trampie' rankings of 340 plus, and are very hard to rank, all the boxers between 200-400 have been ranked in my 'minds eye', very few boxers between 200 and 400 have been googled or boxrec'd by myself.
But you have picked on some good examples for me to explain,
I remember Junior Jones for having two victories over Marco Antonio Barrera #102 on my list and top 100 on most lists, Junior Jones was a multiple belt holder well worth his place on the list.
Cory Spinks, i remember Cory for unifying all the belts when he beat Mayorga, i also remember him beating Zab Judah, i think he is worth a place on the list.
Sharmba Mitchell, had two cracks at Tszyu, the first one been memorable because Sharmba broke his knee, in a much hyped unification battle, but on checking his record, to reply to you, it is poor, and he should not be on a top 400 list.
Wlad Klitscho, to my minds eye has not faced anybody good, an old Chris Byrd being about the best he has faced, i dont like his robotic style, Wlad is far more deserving of a top 400 spot than Sharmba is {now that i have checked them out}
I have a big problem with all the little Mexicans plus Pacman, they are always fighting each other and always beating each other, most people think they are all great, i think they are merely very good, not one of them is dominant over the other ones, if one of them was i would have them in my top 100.
JM Marquez 0-1 Pacman and a draw
Morales 1-2 Pacman
JM Marquez 1-0 Barrera
Barrera 2-1 Morales
People either rank Pac,Barrera and Morales as all top 100 or none of them in the top 100, like in my case, because they are quite evenly matched, J M Marquez who i stated without prompting from anybody, had just missed out on the top 400, on reflection belongs on the list.

So its over to you now DINAMITA, your turn to answer why no Packey,Peerless,George,Abe and Beau in your top 100 ?

[DINAMITA]

DINAMITA the truth about the list showing Hatton #101 and Joppy #143 was because after the Hopkins/Calzaghe bout, i could not believe the disrespect towards Calzaghe on this site at that time, so i created a list to show haters on the general 'boxing forum' look this is where Calzaghe stands in an all time list, it had to be a top 200 because at the time, some people were saying he would not make their top 100 {fair enough}, i figured that even the most biased of posters would be hard pressed not to have him in a top 200, that would be enough to make some haters stop and think top 200 all time 'he must be good', and give the boxer some respect.

Very obvious, completely non-sensical, utterly transparent, positively shameful and horribly pathetic lies. You are not worthy of further comment. :hi:

[TommyV]

Trampie - please tell me what you know about Jim Driscoll, Beau Jack, Packey McFarland and George Dixon.

[DINAMITA]

Trampie - please tell me what you know about Jim Driscoll, Beau Jack, Packey McFarland and George Dixon.

When I posted my own top 100, I put a footer within the original top 100 thread-starter post saying that I had only not included George Dixon because I did not feel I had been able to find enough information on him to make a definitive judgement on the guy.

I concur with Sweet Pea on the subject:

As far as guy like George Dixon, he's an enigma for me to rank, given his record, but also given the fact that he was considered such a brilliant fighter, and one who was robbed so often, and took the dive so often, according to reports. And those reports were back by the white media.

There are many articles on Dixon online, but the guy fought in the 1890s, and I don't think some articles written over 100 years ago are enough to make a definitive judgement on him. There's nowhere near as much written on Dixon as there is on guys like Gans and Langford, even Walcott. I have an opinion on Dixon, but I'm not prepared to give him an exact placing in a top 100 because I personally don't really know enough about the guy to feel comfortable with that.

To be honest, I couldn't be any less ashamed of that, I believe it is the right decision for me.


For the rest of the guys Trampie mentions, I genuinely do not believe any of them make a top 100. Maybe I'm a little biased towards fighters of the past 30 years, maybe not, but that's my genuine opinion. I don't see why guys like Attell and Jack should be ranked higher than say, Mike McCallum or Joe Calzaghe.

[trampie]

Very obvious, completely non-sensical, utterly transparent, positively shameful and horribly pathetic lies. You are not worthy of further comment. :hi:

So i take your not going to answer my questions ?

That proves you have got no balls, were you not the guy, that started a thread talking about poofs, that thread plus the fact you have got no balls tells me that you are a faggot.

[DINAMITA]

So i take your not going to answer my questions ?

That proves you have got no balls, were you not the guy, that started a thread talking about poofs, that thread plus the fact you have got no balls tells me that you are a faggot.



:lol: Ooh, my feelings are all hurt Joppy boy!!

When you stop lying, I'll start giving explanations.

[trampie]

Lying about what exactly FAGGOTT

[DINAMITA]

Lying about what exactly FAGGOTT

You just can't buy class like this gentlemen :yep

ps: or spelling. :D

[trampie]

Trampie - please tell me what you know about Jim Driscoll, Beau Jack, Packey McFarland and George Dixon.

120,000 people attended Jim Driscolls funeral in what was possibly the biggest funeral Wales had ever seen, his coffin covered in the 'union jack' was placed onto a gun carriage and headed on a 2 mile procession through the City headed by the band of the 2nd battalion of the Welch Regiment.
Places of business closed, the great and the good were in attendance, the funeral had all the hallmarks of a state funeral yet Jim was born the son of Irish immigrants.

'Peerless' Jim Driscoll 'the peoples champion' won the British featherweight title twice {gave title up} had avenged his only controversial defeat and had won what was billed as the British version of the World featherweight title, before going to America, where is reputation as a boxer had preceded him, he easily beat every American put in front of him, Abe Atell was the World Champion at that time, Atell would only fight Jim in a 10 round no-decision contest, without his title been at stake {America had a no decision rule in place at the time, a winner only being declared if there was a KO}
Jim Driscoll dominated Atell, most observers say Jim won all 10 rounds,
Nat Fleischer commented that Driscoll was easily the best and was the best featherweight in the World.
Jim Driscoll was offered a rematch with the World title at stake {Atell had no choice as everybody knew who was the real champion} but Jim had promised to go back home to Wales to fight in an exhibition to raise money for an orphanage {Nazareth House}, he stunned the boxing World and kept his promise to raise money for the orphans.
After a few more fights he ended up fighting fellow Welsh great 'Fearless' Freddie Welsh who would go on to become World lightweight champion.
The match was a grudge match, the boxers were initialled friends but the rivalry between supporters of both boxers plus the hype in the press lead to a dirty, ugly fight, Freddie was determined to win by any means legal or illegal, Jim was getting no protection from the ref, and in the end gentleman Jim headbutted Freddie Welsh in frustration and was disqualified, there was rioting all over Cardiff after the fight {this may not just have been Jims supporters unhappy about the outcome, as Freddie had proberbly a lot of valley boys in town there to support him}
Jim went on to win the Longsdale belt outright and the European title, the 1st World War deprived him of a chance of fighting for the World title, he joined the army and did not box for 6 years, after the war he fought a couple of fights but was in bad health and nearly 40 years old.

Jim Driscoll has streets named after him in his home town, he has statues of himself in his hometown, at the front of his huge funeral he had 100 children from the Nazareth House orphanage and to this day nuns from the orphanage tend to his grave.


Packey McFarland had 104 fights in his career and lost just one, he beat Jack Britton twice and had one draw, the boxrec report for one of their fights says Packey won every round accept one whch was even, Packey also had wins over Welsh, Kilbane and Britt.


George Dixon was the first black World boxing champion, ranked by Nat Fleischer as the #1 All Time greatest bantamweight.


Beau Jack headlined a record 21 times at MSG, he fought Bob Montgomery in a fight that set the record for gate receipts.

Hope this fits the bill for you TommyV, the write ups on the first 3 boxers are from recent posts of mine in the last couple of weeks.

[trampie]

No answer TommyV after me going to all that trouble to educate you, do you have a view on Driscoll, Beau Jack, McFarland and Dixon ? why do you want to know about them ?

[trampie]

sweet_scientist has Packey McFarland at #37
McGrain has Packey McFarland #57
trampie has Packey McFarland #43
DINAMITA does not have Packey McFarland in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Jim Driscoll at #36
McGrain has Jim Driscoll at #69
trampie has Jim Driscoll at #45
DINAMITA does not have Jim Driscoll in his top 100

sweet_scientist has George Dixon at #49
McGrain has George Dixon at #31
trampie has George Dixon at #35
DINAMITA does not have George Dixon in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Abe Attell at #71
McGrain has Abe Attell at #56
trampie has Abe Attell at #65
DINAMITA does not have Abe Attell in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Beau Jack at #85
McGrain has Beau Jack at #81
trampie has Beau Jack at #78
DINAMITA does not have Beau Jack in his top 100

Some of these boxers are top 50 ATG, not boxers in the 90's that may just miss the top 100 cut on some lists ? :roll:


I have an opinion on Dixon, but I'm not prepared to give him an exact placing in a top 100 because I personally don't really know enough about the guy to feel comfortable with that.

WTF does that mean :nut


For the rest of the guys Trampie mentions, I genuinely do not believe any of them make a top 100.:yikes

Carpentier, Morales, Bivins, James Toney and Benny Lynch in your top 100 and Packey McFarland only one defeat in over 100 fights {who beat Jack Britton twice, Britton is #47 on your list :roll:, Packey also has wins over Owen Moran, Freddie Welsh, Kilbane and Britt} yet Packey is not in your top 100 ???, the highest ranked boxer in the above lists is Peerless Jim Driscoll at #36 yet you dont think that this classy boxer is worthy of a place in your top 100 when James Toney and Benny Lynch are.:lol:

[DINAMITA]

sweet_scientist has Packey McFarland at #37
McGrain has Packey McFarland #57
trampie has Packey McFarland #43
DINAMITA does not have Packey McFarland in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Jim Driscoll at #36
McGrain has Jim Driscoll at #69
trampie has Jim Driscoll at #45
DINAMITA does not have Jim Driscoll in his top 100

sweet_scientist has George Dixon at #49
McGrain has George Dixon at #31
trampie has George Dixon at #35
DINAMITA does not have George Dixon in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Abe Attell at #71
McGrain has Abe Attell at #56
trampie has Abe Attell at #65
DINAMITA does not have Abe Attell in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Beau Jack at #85
McGrain has Beau Jack at #81
trampie has Beau Jack at #78
DINAMITA does not have Beau Jack in his top 100

Some of these boxers are top 50 ATG, not boxers in the 90's that may just miss the top 100 cut on some lists ? :roll:




Carpentier, Morales, Bivins, James Toney and Benny Lynch in your top 100 and Packey McFarland only one defeat in over 100 fights {who beat Jack Britton twice, Britton is #47 on your list :roll:, Packey also has wins over Owen Moran, Freddie Welsh, Kilbane and Britt} yet Packey is not in your top 100 ???, the highest ranked boxer in the above lists is Peerless Jim Driscoll at #36 yet you dont think that this classy boxer is worthy of a place in your top 100 when James Toney and Benny Lynch are.:lol:

Yawn.

I have stated again and again that I will provide my explanations for all/any of my decisions when you tell the truth about posting a list that had Ricky Hatton at 101st and William Joppy at 143rd, ahead of Azumah Nelson, Erik Morales, Harold Johnson and Jimmy Bivins.

But not before.


And if you seriously think that not including these guys in a top 100 in any way equates to...

- having fucking Junior Jones, Cory Spinks and Sharmba Mitchell above Wladimir Klitschko and Juan Manuel Marquez, or...

- having Naseem Hamed at 185 and Jeff Harding at 305 when Sumbu Kalambay is only at 307...

or any other the litany of other horrible selections that Sweet Scientist and I have highlighted, then you are even more of a hopeless moron than first thought. :good

[trampie]

Yawn.

I have stated again and again that I will provide my explanations for all/any of my decisions when you tell the truth about posting a list that had Ricky Hatton at 101st and William Joppy at 143rd, ahead of Azumah Nelson, Erik Morales, Harold Johnson and Jimmy Bivins.

But not before.


And if you seriously think that not including these guys in a top 100 in any way equates to...

- having fucking Junior Jones, Cory Spinks and Sharmba Mitchell above Wladimir Klitschko and Juan Manuel Marquez, or...

- having Naseem Hamed at 185 and Jeff Harding at 305 when Sumbu Kalambay is only at 307...

or any other the litany of other horrible selections that Sweet Scientist and I have highlighted, then you are even more of a hopeless moron than first thought. :good

Not only are you a poof, but a barking mad poof at that !:D:lol::D:lol::D:lol::happy

I have told you the reason for the 'impossible task' thread, see 'post 110' :nut
If you dont like the answer thats your problem.

On the very first post i stated :-

The top 100 is in some sort of order,places 100-200 is difficult to categorize and places 200-400 is virtually impossible to rank in order. I admit the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers, if i am missing somebody or i have a 'doubler' or there a rankings that are clearly wrong, let me know and i will change them, all comments welcome.

You are making a complete fool of yourself calling somebody ''rotten'' {shit list, an idiot, a moron} when the above statement was in place from post 1.
Some of the boxers you are highlighting as been ranked badly are towards the bottom of a 400 strong list.:nut
If you thing the rankings of Junior Jones and Cory Spinks is wrong, or they do not belong just inside a top 400 list, then fine.
{both boxers do have a case for such a large list}
That is absolutely nothing compared to leaving stonewall top 100 boxers, like Dixon, Driscoll, McFarland, Attell and Beau Jack off your list, some of them boys are arguably top 50 ATG boxers.:nut
Thats why am putting lots of nut smilies after some passages, you are arguing for the sake of arguing, you are trying to argue black is white.:nut

The only thing we can compare is our top 100
You DINAMITA has a top 100
sweet_scientist has a top 115 {in order}
McGrain has a top 101
and i have a top 400
It is only fair to compare the top 100s of everybodies list, and my top 100 on the whole compares to sweet_scientist and McGrain lists better than yours does.

At the very minimum my top 100 is ok, because it compares to other sources including IBRO.

You never give any credit to anybody,{or recognise any errors you make either, come to that} so what do you think about my top 100 of the 400 list ?
You dont like Wilde, you dont like Calzaghe, but is the top 100 SHIT, you may think the top 400 is SHIT, but is the top 100 SHIT ? {remembering it compares to other sources}

[DINAMITA]

Not only are you a poof, but a barking mad poof at that !:D:lol::D:lol::D:lol::happy

I'll address the rest of your post later when I have time, but with reference to above quotation just now:

Seriously Trampie, you are embarrassing yourself with behaviour like this on the Classic Forum. Calling someone a poof and following it with a procession of smileys is the conduct of a thirteen year old noob moron on the General.

This whole thread truly has been a damning indictment of your character.

[TFFP]

Respect for the effort.

However, I think your time would have been better served putting together an accurate top 100, or even 50 with some detailed research. There are some glaring inconsistencies. Nobody is too worried about who is number 356.

[McGrain]

It's funny you should say that, as soon as I saw your post I went and checked who #356 was...

Just read through this thread.

:lol:

[stonerose]

I went down the list and forgot the fucking number by the time i got there.

Who the fucks Tod Morgan anyway ?

[stonerose]

This thread is comedy by the way. Trampie and Dinimita sound like me and my missus when she's on.

[DINAMITA]

This thread is comedy by the way. Trampie and Dinimita sound like me and my missus when she's on.

I disagree, because I don't believe your good lady would ever behave like half as much of a raving slavering dog as Trampie has. :lol:

[DINAMITA]

OK, time to end this bullshit.

Not only are you a poof, but a barking mad poof at that !:D:lol::D:lol::D:lol::happy

Classy stuff Trampie.



I have told you the reason for the 'impossible task' thread, see 'post 110' :nut
If you dont like the answer thats your problem.

It's not that I "don't like" the answer, it's that the answer is a very obvious and very pathetic lie.

- You did not write a full top 200 boxers over six months after the Calzaghe-Hopkins fight to get Calzaghe the credit you felt he was not given after the Hopkins fight. Had this been your intention you would have made a thread on it sooner.

- You did not write a full top 200 boxers with Calzaghe positioned around 80th in order to get Calzaghe the credit you felt he was not given after the Hopkins fight. Had this been your intention you would have made a thread specifically about getting Joe Calzaghe the credit you felt he was not given after the Hopkins fight. You would not have written a full top 200 with Joe Calzaghe positioned a perfectly respectable and innocuous 80th-ish in order to do this, especially considering that in your "real" (:lol:) list, you ranked him about 30 places higher!!

- You did not write a full top 200 boxers with Calzaghe positioned around 80th in order to get Calzaghe the credit you felt he was not given after the Hopkins fight. Had this been your intention you would have only written a top 100. If your intention was show Calzaghe deserves a high placing, why bother including the other 100 fighters?? Why would putting William Joppy at 143rd have got Joe Calzaghe more credit for the Hopkins win?? Absurd.

- You did not write a full top 200 boxers with Calzaghe positioned around 80th in order to get Calzaghe the credit you felt he was not given after the Hopkins fight, because you defended your choices for page after page until the bombardment about how shite your list was got too much and you crumbled and changed it around. If you had not believed in your list, why did you try and argue your case for the first few pages? Were you lying then? Why were you lying?

- You did not write a full top 200 boxers with Calzaghe positioned around 80th in order to get Calzaghe the credit you felt he was not given after the Hopkins fight, and the composition of this list set against your later lists proves this. The 1st 100 of your "joke" list is very similar to the 1st 100 of your current list. If it was a entirely "joke" list, why was it so close to your "real" list up until around 100, and then it suddenly became a hilarious hoax? Why was it that it was all the choices that were utterly lampooned in your "joke" list that were removed/changed by the time the "real" list was posted??

You are a liar. You made a list, it was fucking awful, and you went off and completely reworked it on the basis of other peoples' opinions. That's why your lists have no credibility and you have no integrity.


You thought Ricky Hatton was the 101st and that William Joppy was the 143rd best boxer ever, yet now you are trying to present yourself as some sort of Zen Master on the basis of other peoples' opinions and lists. You are a pitiful and desperate character.



Only when you are man enough to admit this and stop lying will I explicate my choices regarding the boxers you speak of. Not before.


I suggest you stop masturbating like a frenzied animal while watching this....

[Only registered and activated users can see links]



...and be a man and tell the fucking truth!

[sweet_scientist]

sweet_scientist, YES YES YES AND YES AGAIN, you have got it, by the way i am not taking the piss or mucking about, you have got it :happy

My top 100 is in order, YES

I did want people to advise me how to rank the boxers between 200-400 , YES

They are in a very rough order, {200-400} YES

Not only would i like you boys to 'order' them, that is what i always wanted, YES

Sorry for the slow responce been walking the dog, where in Oz are you from ? been over there a couple of times, do you like Rugby and Cricket ?

I'd participate in it if you actually put them in order yourself trampie, and then it would be worthwhile making improvements to it. Right now it appears like you've slapped no's 200-400 together and you're asking us to make sense of it. A bit too onerous to start making suggestions for every fighter there. The critiques would run longer than your list.

If you seriously try and order the 400 (and thereby prove that you know about the sport) sure I'll make some suggestions for improving the list. Would be great to see a decent top 400 list. Certainly is a mammoth task though.

By the way, I'm from Melbourne, and I don't much like cricket or rugby, I'm more an Aussie rules football man myself.

[trampie]

I'd participate in it if you actually put them in order yourself trampie, and then it would be worthwhile making improvements to it. Right now it appears like you've slapped no's 200-400 together and you're asking us to make sense of it. A bit too onerous to start making suggestions for every fighter there. The critiques would run longer than your list.

If you seriously try and order the 400 (and thereby prove that you know about the sport) sure I'll make some suggestions for improving the list. Would be great to see a decent top 400 list. Certainly is a mammoth task though.

By the way, I'm from Melbourne, and I don't much like cricket or rugby, I'm more an Aussie rules football man myself.

Outside of the top 100, they have been ranked in my 'minds eye' and by and large not googled or boxrec'd, i have been to the tennis in Melbourne,
nice facility {flinders park}, it was fairly new at the time i was there though, i dont know if its the heat, but the beer is not very good in Oz, VB and Toohey's was just about ok, most of the stuff seemed to be lager, where i come from thats a womans drink.:lol:
I will try and get round to the mammoth task of trying to formally rank 200-400, but it could take a long time.

[Senya13]

sweet_scientist has Packey McFarland at #37
McGrain has Packey McFarland #57
trampie has Packey McFarland #43
DINAMITA does not have Packey McFarland in his top 100
Senya13 has Packey McFarland #5 (yes, number five P4P)
And I'm pretty certain I know more about him than anybody on this board, I have a large scrap-book with reports on large majority of his bouts, except the early ones where the dates/results are uncertain.

[trampie]

Senya13 has Packey McFarland #5 (yes, number five P4P)
And I'm pretty certain I know more about him than anybody on this board, I have a large scrap-book with reports on large majority of his bouts, except the early ones where the dates/results are uncertain.

Well lets see your top 100 'Senya13' it could be an interesting list.
Have you any info on Packey against Freddie Welsh ?

[Smith]

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[anarci]

Bump: too many indescrepencies on this list Jeffries at 74?? and many of the fighters of the last 30 years are very underrated Hopkins 54 too low? Delahoya 83 too low? Pac 119 way too low? Mosley 143 way too low? Fenech 180 way low, Mormeck 218 too damn high, Canizales 273 thats a travesty way too low.

Dont have time to get more in depth thats just of the top of my head,just was going thru pass threads and wanted to see what others thought about this list.

[red cobra]

Where's Hugo Corro?

[anarci]

I dont care how any nit picking historians want to nit pick Tyson,this man was a dominant champion and a top 10 heavyweigt champ. I can only think of a few that "might" have beat him at his peak. To have him ranked 89 is way too low. Also Barrera at 102 is way low Barrera is in the top 60 easy. Also Joe fraizer at 114 is a bad one. Ill be back to pick this one apart.

Although i have to give the Tm credit its impossible to make a list this big without it being picked apart. For the most part he did his homework. Im just pointing out the big mistakes.

[anarci]

Gene Fullmer is way to low at 172

[PunchOut]

JCC at 36 .... WTF

Pac outside top 50 ???? mm wait ... outside top 100???

[johnmaff36]

Calzaghe above carmen basilio???? FFS your having a laugh

[Doppleganger]

I give you credit for taking the time to compile a list of 400 but firstly that's way too many fighters to really keep a track of (unless you have nothing else to do in life) and secondly there's some really odd placings. This was just in the top 100 as I couldn't be arsed reading anything after that.

Hint: Calzaghe does not belong in the top 100 of any list. Mate, you're getting dog's abuse for where you've placed him and rightly so. The guy might be undefeated but he's not an ATG IMO - the 3 best fighters he beat were past their primes (and in Hopkins' case decades). I don't have the time to critique the rest of your Top 100 but the errors are glaring.

[Boom_Boom]

Garbage

Edit:
(Shit I thought I was bumping a thread from the GF section)

[Liechhardt]

very much out of whack. JM Marquez not in?

[anarci]

WTF Jeff Harding over Pipino Cuevas!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit

[The Morlocks]

That's a huge list.:shock: How'd you go about creating the list?
Nobody w/ a woman has anytime to make a list like that.