Strength Relates To Knockouts?

[HomicideHenry]

Most of the heavy hitters, such as Marciano, Sullivan, Jefferies and Foreman, were all men of great natural strength, with alot of knock outs to their credit. Is it all just strength or is there many factors involved?

I read somewhere, that a man believed it was mainly about "commitment" to the punches being thrown more than anything else, that and the shorter the hooks and straight hands, the more power there was because of the velocity; some argued that in the cases of Marciano and Tyson that their shorter height amplified their punching power, by hitting upward, that it was more of a harder blow than hitting downward.

I seen many strongmen types in boxing and for the most part they failed to live to expectations; I know a man told me once that he asked Tim Witherspoon if Jumbo Cummings hit as hard as some of the more better fighters he boxed, and Witherspoon said that he, in fact, actually hit harder than most of the men he faced.

It just always got me to thinking, you know? I know very little of Cooney and Shavers training habits, but Holmes, Ali, Foreman, Lyle and Norton all said those two hit them harder than anyone else.

[janitor]

I tend to think that the main component is genetic or neuromuscular.

Training habits and punching technique canb certainly help but the really gifted hitters are born with it.

I would add that while power punchers will tend to be men of considerable physical strength they will not necisarily be.

Oh and you can have the bigest biceps in the world and still hit like a girl.

[McGrain]

Hell no it's not just about strength. Timing (man on his way in gets hit harder than a man on his way out), accuracy (hot spots), speed ("it's the punch you can't see coming that hurts you") and technique (throwing through the proper stance) are just some of the factors involved.

[teeto]

Yeah strength and power are different, the trainer in our old amateur place used to say 'speed is power'. But great physical strength can mean kos in terms of using that stregth over the course of a long gruelling bout to break a man down. Some great 'strong boxers' include Shane Mosley and Beau Jack for example.

[PowerPuncher]

Hell no it's not just about strength. Timing (man on his way in gets hit harder than a man on his way out), accuracy (hot spots), speed ("it's the punch you can't see coming that hurts you") and technique (throwing through the proper stance) are just some of the factors involved.

Agreed except without strength through your legs, core (abbs/lower back/obliques), shoulders, and other groups to a lesser extent you can have all the other factors near perfect and have your punch laughed off

IE Tommy Hearns isn't knocking out Mike Tyson

[Boilermaker]

Agreed except without strength through your legs, core (abbs/lower back/obliques), shoulders, and other groups to a lesser extent you can have all the other factors near perfect and have your punch laughed off

IE Tommy Hearns isn't knocking out Mike Tyson

I disagree. If Tommy catches tyson cleanly enough, he is knocking out Mike Tyson, no matter how good his chin is. The reason he couldnt in a fight is because Tyson has enough power to stop Tommy in his tracks and he cant set him up for a clean enough shots. Also, Tyson's chin will be better than most that Hearns fights, but thre is no doubt that Tommy could knock Tyson cold, if he caught him clean enough. For arguments sake, if Tyson had one hand tied behind is back, Hearns wins the fight by knock out.

[Chinxkid]

The best place to hit somebody if you want to knock them out is on the point of the chin, bam! And in a way that you snap their face and whip it over their shoulders and neurologically short circuit their brain. Other than that it's about two other things way before strength. Technique and bad intention. A lot of no wait, just as many big strong guys can't throw a punch for shit as can't weak guys. All that matters is how they use their body physiologically to deliver a punch, and whether they want to drive that shot right through the other guy's jaw bone or not.

[MAG1965]

What if Hearns was 6-5 225. How would he have done against Mike Tyson?

[PowerPuncher]

I disagree. If Tommy catches tyson cleanly enough, he is knocking out Mike Tyson, no matter how good his chin is. The reason he couldnt in a fight is because Tyson has enough power to stop Tommy in his tracks and he cant set him up for a clean enough shots. Also, Tyson's chin will be better than most that Hearns fights, but thre is no doubt that Tommy could knock Tyson cold, if he caught him clean enough. For arguments sake, if Tyson had one hand tied behind is back, Hearns wins the fight by knock out.

No tie both Tysons hands behind his back and watch as Tyson bites off both of Hearns nipples and laughs at his pigeon shooter power

[RDJ]

Hell no it's not just about strength. Timing (man on his way in gets hit harder than a man on his way out), accuracy (hot spots), speed ("it's the punch you can't see coming that hurts you") and technique (throwing through the proper stance) are just some of the factors involved.

You should visit the training section more often, the focus some people have on strength (lifting) is insane.

[PowerPuncher]

What if Hearns was 6-5 225. How would he have done against Mike Tyson?

Depends whether Hearns goes to war or runs but Tyson KO between rounds 1-5 given Hearns P4P has the same chin. Tyson is faster, too good at mid-ranger and too powerful for that chin

[SugarRay]

It's largely to do with physics i.e. Force = Mass x Acceleration and Power = Force/ Time.
Tyson was able to accelerate his body and fists better than most. Hearn's excellent speed along with his long physique allowed him produce the power he had. Of course couple these with technique and timing you get real ko type power.

[Arka]

It's largely to do with physics i.e. Force = Mass x Acceleration and Power = Force/ Time.
Tyson was able to accelerate his body and fists better than most. Hearn's excellent speed along with his long physique allowed him produce the power he had. Of course couple these with technique and timing you get real ko type power.



Your definition of power is wrong.

Force=mass*acceleration

Here
energy=Force*distance the object the force is acting upon moves


Power=energy/time
or,
Power=Force*distance/time
or,
Power=mass*acceleration*distance/time

[MAG1965]

Depends whether Hearns goes to war or runs but Tyson KO between rounds 1-5 given Hearns P4P has the same chin. Tyson is faster, too good at mid-ranger and too powerful for that chin
I do not see that. Hearns usually hit his opponents clean and I think would go down and out. If Hearns were his same size and prime, I doubt Mike could handle Hearns. Hearns was too fast and sharp. Mike did well in his career, but he never beat an elite guy who was his natural weight and prime. I think Hearns stops him in about 2 or 3 similar to how he stopped Duran.

[Doppleganger]

I tend to think that the main component is genetic or neuromuscular.

Training habits and punching technique canb certainly help but the really gifted hitters are born with it.

I would add that while power punchers will tend to be men of considerable physical strength they will not necisarily be.

Oh and you can have the bigest biceps in the world and still hit like a girl.
I believe it's a bit of both; genetics and training/technique. Tommy Hearns is a perfect example of a guy who had the genetic makeup but lacked the technique until Steward showed him how. Tommy had the fast twitch muscle fibres and the elasticity of muscle to give him the explosive snapping power that he had. The amount of those fast twitch fibres anyone has is genetically determined and this is the point where punchers are born not made.

It's triceps you want to work if you want to improve striking power, not biceps, which do little in this regard. Building the triceps can improve the 'explosiveness' of your punching. Working and improving the core strength of the body is important too. Training certain muscle groups will make anyone a harder puncher than they were before but will never, as Janitor alluded to, make anyone a true puncher unless they were born that way.

[PowerPuncher]

I do not see that. Hearns usually hit his opponents clean and I think would go down and out. If Hearns were his same size and prime, I doubt Mike could handle Hearns. Hearns was too fast and sharp. . I think Hearns stops him in about 2 or 3 similar to how he stopped Duran.

Mike was faster, better defensively, P4P Mike did well in his career, but he never beat an elite guy who was his natural weight and primestronger and Hearns got taken out by the best rough house fighters he faced Hagler/Barkley that didn't have these skills. Hearns chin just isn't good enough even if he was naturally bigger to beat a destroyer like Tyson

The argument Mike did well in his career, but he never beat an elite guy who was his natural weight and prime can also be leveled at Hearns

[Mendoza]

Most of the heavy hitters, such as Marciano, Sullivan, Jefferies and Foreman, were all men of great natural strength, with alot of knock outs to their credit. Is it all just strength or is there many factors involved?

I read somewhere, that a man believed it was mainly about "commitment" to the punches being thrown more than anything else, that and the shorter the hooks and straight hands, the more power there was because of the velocity; some argued that in the cases of Marciano and Tyson that their shorter height amplified their punching power, by hitting upward, that it was more of a harder blow than hitting downward.

I seen many strongmen types in boxing and for the most part they failed to live to expectations; I know a man told me once that he asked Tim Witherspoon if Jumbo Cummings hit as hard as some of the more better fighters he boxed, and Witherspoon said that he, in fact, actually hit harder than most of the men he faced.

It just always got me to thinking, you know? I know very little of Cooney and Shavers training habits, but Holmes, Ali, Foreman, Lyle and Norton all said those two hit them harder than anyone else.
Yes Strength matters.

The way I see it there are three types of KO artists.

Those who do it with " heavy hands " and brute strength. Example George Foreman

Those with precise punches and speed. Example Joe Louis or Sugar Ray Robinson.

Those who dive their punches with leverage and punch through their targets. Example Bob Fitzsimmons.

[SugarRay]

Your definition of power is wrong.


Power=energy/time
or,
Power=Force*distance/time
or,
Power=mass*acceleration*distance/time

I won't deny that. It has been a while since my last physics class but, power is directly proportional to Mass and Acceleration and inversely proportional to Time. The power equation explains why Hearns was so lethal.

[Stonehands89]

Much of the previous posts are part of the equation. However, the guiding factor -the most predictable cause of knockouts- is not physical strength (that's actually low on the list and those who train to increase their physical strength often hurt their own cause), it is not heavy hands, it is not bad intentions/committment, it is not fast twitch fibers (although that is near the top).

The most important guiding factor is the punches that you do not see. This is why Molinares put Starling, who was never KOd, to sleep in their NC. This is why Hearns' shot was so devestating even though he was built like an oversized insect. Speed helps -but that isn't all. Hearns would often feint to the body and then drop one over and above. When Hearns got Duran, the following factors coagulated -speed, leverage (the shot was actually a right hook), distance, etc... but what got him is that Duran was set up to expect a shot to the body and Hearns tricked him. Duran didn't see the shot.

This is why when I train novices, I teach them to look between the clavicles without focussing -that way they can see both shoulders but also the hands. Never look at the eyes, never the hands... you get feinted that way.

I've always suspected that many knockouts happen when the man is the process of blinking. Seriously.

[Doppleganger]

On the money Stonehands. The punches you don't see really hurt you. Hearns was particularly adept at feinting to the body and indeed I might start a thread on why Hearns was able to knock out fighters so easily after utilizing body punching.

[guilalah]

No doubt there are many factors in how hard a punch is thrown.

No doubt there are even more factors in how hard a punch lands.

Fitzsimmons threw a hard punch; timing, sense of distance, accuracy, the knack of drawing his man in, the propensity for the unexpected, and total psychological commitment made him a giant killer.