p4p-GSP or Anderson Silva?

[brandon9624]

Let's settle this once and for all. Everyone agrees Fedor is #1 right now, but who's #2, GSP or Anderson Silva.
I think GSP's beatings of Hughes was sort of a changing of the guard in the welterweight division, and he's a great fighter, but my vote's for Silva. I think he'll retire undefeated in the UFC (not counting Pride losses), no matter if he fights MW or LHW.

[chimba]

Silva clearly

[jimmie]

GSP is easily the more complete fighter and probablly has the better resume but in the last 4 years Anderson Silva has been untouchable and killing everyone while we have seen GSP tapping to a natural Lightweight gatekeeper less then 24 months ago.

[AJAX]

GSP is easily the more complete fighter and probablly has the better resume but in the last 4 years Anderson Silva has been untouchable and killing everyone while we have seen GSP tapping to a natural Lightweight gatekeeper less then 24 months ago.

I agree, that loss put's him just behind Silva, although GSP has avenged both his losses and brutally I might add.

[jimmie]

I agree, that loss put's him just behind Silva, although GSP has avenged both his losses and brutally I might add.

Yes indeed he has but watching him get battered then tap when the going got tough keeps him behind Silva for now. WTF is it with GSP and pain dude look like he was tapping before Hughes even totally hit the armbar he didnt even try to defend it or even wait that 0.4 secounds left in the round same with at Grappling match I seen him in once the dude didnt even extend him hips on a armbar yet and GSP was tapping hell even in the 1st BJ fight he considered qutting damn you lost the 1st round but it wasnt bad you got blood on you so what.

[chimba]

I dont know about more complete. Better Wrestler yes, but BJJ Id have to give to Anderson Silva. Just being in Silvas guard is a problem in itself (body lock, triangles, Upkicks, elbows). Forget standup, its no contest. The scary part is Silva sprawl is getting better.

As far as resume, its tough..I remember Franklin being held up to number 2 p4p status just two years ago and against Silva, hes a can. Its hard to build a resume when youre Silva.. Guys like Lee Murray becomes very ordinary very quickly.

[MaliSlamusrex]

+1

why split hairs they are both good fighters. :happy

GSP is easily the more complete fighter and probablly has the better resume but in the last 4 years Anderson Silva has been untouchable and killing everyone while we have seen GSP tapping to a natural Lightweight gatekeeper less then 24 months ago.

[socrates]

GSP.

no question.

[achillesthegreat]

No doubt about it. GSP.

[québecwarrior]

Yes indeed he has but watching him get battered then tap when the going got tough keeps him behind Silva for now. WTF is it with GSP and pain dude look like he was tapping before Hughes even totally hit the armbar he didnt even try to defend it or even wait that 0.4 secounds left in the round same with at Grappling match I seen him in once the dude didnt even extend him hips on a armbar yet and GSP was tapping hell even in the 1st BJ fight he considered qutting damn you lost the 1st round but it wasnt bad you got blood on you so what.
He said it that he wont risk an injury that would never recover to 100 percent if he know he cant espace a submission, or he wouldnt risk a knock out like vs Serra. Some would say he is a pussy, some would say he is intelligent.

[Grievesy]

I dont know about more complete. Better Wrestler yes, but BJJ Id have to give to Anderson Silva. Just being in Silvas guard is a problem in itself (body lock, triangles, Upkicks, elbows). Forget standup, its no contest. The scary part is Silva sprawl is getting better.

As far as resume, its tough..I remember Franklin being held up to number 2 p4p status just two years ago and against Silva, hes a can. Its hard to build a resume when youre Silva.. Guys like Lee Murray becomes very ordinary very quickly.

Agree 100%. People say the MW division is shit. That's bollocks. Silva is just that good that he blew everyone away. And he'd do the same if he was any other weight. Luckily some good competition is coming through now.

[Boinko]

I call this one a dead heat. Good arguments can be made for either guy.

[chimba]

Agree 100%. People say the MW division is shit. That's bollocks. Silva is just that good that he blew everyone away. And he'd do the same if he was any other weight. Luckily some good competition is coming through now.

It really is pretty simple.

Before Silva, The Middleweight was a competitive division with a Marquee Champ Franklin. Now Franklin had just beaten Tanner, Loiseau, Quarry (good fighters) with ease!

Now Silva comes along and he finishes Rich with the same ease. I mean he just stroked a broad brush right there. Meaning If he beats Franklin with ease!. What would he do to the fighters Franklin beat with ease??

Unfortunately, MMA MAth doesnt work with Silva, he is outside this equation. He is that good, everyone is ordinary.

Case in point. Leites and Alves..compare them. Pretty equal. Leites, talented BJJ good standup. Alves, talented Striker, good BJJ. Pretty much the same level of competition , same records.

Alves vs. GSP. Interesting..Next Big Fight

Silva vs. Leites.. not a great card, too one sided for a main event. The UFC cant even hype this fight.

Theres why Silva is higher

[québecwarrior]

Alves and Leites are not pretty equal. Just no.In fact, Alves could move up to MW and knock Leites the fuck out. Why do you think it would be a next big fight? Because Alves has been stopping people right and left. People see him as a guy who can knock GSP out.
How can UFC hype Leites to knock or sub A.Silva, whos on another level?
Leites? his biggest win is a fight he didnt even won and was controversial.

[ufoalf]

Leites? his biggest win is a fight he didnt even won and was controversial.

lol, yup. Terrible main event. If Leites wins it'll be worse than GSP losing to Serra.

[jimmie]

Alves and Leites are not pretty equal. Just no.In fact, Alves could move up to MW and knock Leites the fuck out. Why do you think it would be a next big fight? Because Alves has been stopping people right and left. People see him as a guy who can knock GSP out.
How can UFC hype Leites to knock or sub A.Silva, whos on another level?
Leites? his biggest win is a fight he didnt even won and was controversial.

Yup Leites is no Alves what are Leites best wins ? a bullcrap decision over Marquardt. Alves is coming off violent victorys of 3 top 10 Welterweights.

[chimba]

How is Alves much better than Leites?? He beat Koscheck (who took the fight on short notice) who just got embarrased Saturday night. He came in at 200 pounds against a shot Matt Hughes. He beat Lytle, BFD! And Karo..lets not go there. Im just not overscrutinizing these wins but those are the realities. I like Alves, love his stand up and TD defense...I take those qualities alone (without his resume) as giving him a shot against GSP.

He did beat big names but take a closer look. Matt Hughes was shot and Kos was a hard fought decision.

[achillesthegreat]

The MW division was good but was there an elite void that Silva filled???

Without GSP taking over at WW, Hughes was/is a legend. BJ was/is a legend. Were there any Hughes or BJs at MW?

I remember Hughes being considered the best WW ever and GSP has fought him 3 times. I think BJ is considered the best LW ever and GSP fought him twice. I can't put Franklin in this sort of class though Henderson is a true P4P win.

[Boyd]

even though i'm a huge GSP fan i think for right now i give it to Anderson. going up to 205 and getting a first minute KO edged him slightly ahead for me. I know Irvin isn't the cream of the crop but he is a soild light heavy

[St-Laurent]

I would say GSP

he is not affraid of competition, good condition and excellent attitude.... complete fighter!

[brandon9624]

How could Anderson Silva be a more complete fighter? He has beaten everyone the UFC has put in front of him in no more than three rounds. 7 of his 8 ufc fights have ended in less than 2 rds, two subs - rear choke+tri angle choke, two kos from knees, one tko from knees, a tko from punches, one ko from punches. What else does this guy have to do to end this argument?

[québecwarrior]

How could Anderson Silva be a more complete fighter? He has beaten everyone the UFC has put in front of him in no more than three rounds. 7 of his 8 ufc fights have ended in less than 2 rds, two subs - rear choke+tri angle choke, two kos from knees, one tko from knees, a tko from punches, one ko from punches. What else does this guy have to do to end this argument?
mmmmm maybe that Dana start to giving him TOP competition. Don't fool yourself, you know there is a problem when he face Thales Leites, a guy who doesnt deserve that title shot.

[jimmie]

mmmmm maybe that Dana start to giving him TOP competition. Don't fool yourself, you know there is a problem when he face Thales Leites, a guy who doesnt deserve that title shot.

They need to force his ass to fight at 205 with the big dogs. Unless hes facing GSP at 185 I honestly dont care about his Middleweight fights he is a league of his own. Stick him at 205 and you got big matchups lets say he beats Leites and wants to move up he could face Keith Jardine,Rampage is he loses would still be an attractive fight,Forrest Griffin is a great matchup,Liddell-Shogun winner great great fights there.

[Grievesy]

They need to force his ass to fight at 205 with the big dogs. Unless hes facing GSP at 185 I honestly dont care about his Middleweight fights he is a league of his own. Stick him at 205 and you got big matchups lets say he beats Leites and wants to move up he could face Keith Jardine,Rampage is he loses would still be an attractive fight,Forrest Griffin is a great matchup,Liddell-Shogun winner great great fights there.

I don't think forcing him to do it is the right option because he could just turn around and tell Dana to go fuck himself. With talent like Silva's and a good amount of MW competition outside of the UFC, Anderson could easily make money and fight good comp in Strikeforce, Affliction, Sengoku or Dream. He isn't going to LHW anytime soon I don't think because of his friendship with Lyoto Machida.

[québecwarrior]

fuck his friendship with Machida.

Jardine and Evans are great friends, but they still fight in the same division.

If there is no GSP-Silva at MW, then let him face Maia, and after that, put him in the 205 for good. At least there, he can be bulliyed. For god sake, he walk arround 220.

[Grievesy]

fuck his friendship with Machida.

Jardine and Evans are great friends, but they still fight in the same division.

If there is no GSP-Silva at MW, then let him face Maia, and after that, put him in the 205 for good. At least there, he can be bulliyed. For god sake, he walk arround 220.

I'd say its a bit of a different situation in that Silva and Machida are actually likely to grab the belt and therefore more likely to fight each other. Whats the point in Silva going to LHW and not even trying to get the belt. Not mention Silva would probably blow through the majority of that division. I know that I would already pick him over half the top 10 LHWs.

I'd also say that generally Brazilians value friendship very highly. At least it seems that way to me. They're so passionate. I mean look at how many brawls a team like Chute Boxe used to get into purely because one of their guys was beaten. They had beef with Gomi, Hammer House, Rampage, 'Krazy Horse' Bennett, BTT.

[Polymath]

I dont know about more complete. Better Wrestler yes, but BJJ Id have to give to Anderson Silva.

This is flat out wrong. GSP is better in every aspect of grappling and it isnt close. You'll never even see him use his guard to compare.

[jones1]

I'd say Silva. dominates everybody standing up and in his guard

[ufoalf]

This is flat out wrong. GSP is better in every aspect of grappling and it isnt close. You'll never even see him use his guard to compare.
Absolutely.
Be it through BJJ or Wrestling GSP is a much better grappler.

[chimba]

This is flat out wrong. GSP is better in every aspect of grappling and it isnt close. You'll never even see him use his guard to compare.

Silva is better in all levels of striking its very not close, its embarrassing to compare. While Silva is a BJJ BB. And here you go saying that Silvas ground game aint close when hes submitted top fighters on the ground. Besides the corpse Hughes, who has GSP submitted??..and yes i forgot he rnc'ed Trigg just like everyone else.

GSP is a better wrestler, this aint complicated.

[Grievesy]

Silva is better in all levels of striking its very not close, its embarrassing to compare. While Silva is a BJJ BB. And here you go saying that Silvas ground game aint close when hes submitted top fighters on the ground. Besides the corpse Hughes, who has GSP submitted??..and yes i forgot he rnc'ed Trigg just like everyone else.

GSP is a better wrestler, this aint complicated.

I agree, Silva's BJJ is criminally underrated.

[québecwarrior]

Silva is better in all levels of striking its very not close, its embarrassing to compare. While Silva is a BJJ BB. And here you go saying that Silvas ground game aint close when hes submitted top fighters on the ground. Besides the corpse Hughes, who has GSP submitted??..and yes i forgot he rnc'ed Trigg just like everyone else.

GSP is a better wrestler, this aint complicated.
oh and which top fighter he did submitted?
Dan Henderson who was eating HARD BLOW to the head clean and who werent able to stand on his feet no more?

or you talk about that fat fuck Lutter(great BJJ guy yep) who was already gassed in the first round and who failed to make weight?

[Grievesy]

oh and which top fighter he did submitted?
Dan Henderson who was eating HARD BLOW to the head clean and who werent able to stand on his feet no more?

or you talk about that fat fuck Lutter(great BJJ guy yep) who was already gassed in the first round and who failed to make weight?

You do know that Hendo has only ever been submitted by Big Nog and Anderson Silva.

And he's been in against guys like Bustamante, Arona, Palhares, Sobral, Renzo Gracie and not been submitted. Saying he was eating hard shots is not an excuse for him getting submited. Hendo couldn't do ANYTHING in Silva's guard. That right there is better than any submission GSP has pulled off.

[québecwarrior]

You do know that Hendo has only ever been submitted by Big Nog and Anderson Silva.

And he's been in against guys like Bustamante, Arona, Palhares, Sobral, Renzo Gracie and not been submitted. Saying he was eating hard shots is not an excuse for him getting submited. Hendo couldn't do ANYTHING in Silva's guard. That right there is better than any submission GSP has pulled off.
submission isnt everything in grappling my friend.

And yes being badly hurt over strike make you very prone to submission once on the ground, especially vs black belt.

[Grievesy]

submission isnt everything in grappling my friend.

And yes being badly hurt over strike make you very prone to submission once on the ground, especially vs black belt.

I'm not talking grappling overall. I specifically said BJJ. Obviously GSP has better wrestling. Anyone who says otherwise is retarded.

I would say GSP is the better overall grappler, but Silva has better BJJ or similar levels at least and it is underrated.

And I'm still not buying that bullshit that the only reason Silva sunk in the submission is because Hendo was hurt. That is irrelevant. Every other fucker who fought Hendo could have hurt him then subbed him, but did they? Besides, they were on the ground for a while before Silva sunk in the choke IIRC.

[codeman99998]

submission isnt everything in grappling my friend.

And yes being badly hurt over strike make you very prone to submission once on the ground, especially vs black belt.

Well, you say that the submissions don't mean as much because he hurt the guy with punches. I say that using his strikes to set up easy submissions against guys that are almost never subbed shows his well-roundedness.

[québecwarrior]

im not saying the contrary.

[Polymath]

I agree, Silva's BJJ is criminally underrated.

If anything its overrated, in pure or in mma terms his jiu jitsu is nothng special.

[Polymath]

Silva is better in all levels of striking its very not close, its embarrassing to compare.

Yes.

I have no idea why you quoted me.

[Polymath]

Every other fucker who fought Hendo could have hurt him then subbed him, but did they?

Just stop now :lol:

[ufoalf]

I would say GSP is the better overall grappler, but Silva has better BJJ or similar levels at least and it is underrated.


How the fuck do you know?
That's what I want to know. How did you determine that Silva has better BJJ? Because he uses it more often? Yea, well he's been fightin off of his back while GSP hasn't. GSP doesn't need to fight off of his back because he can use his superior wrestling to get to a more dominant position. The ease with which he passes peoples guards? It's ridiculous. Submissions are ALWAYS reversable, there for a higher failure rate than good old pounding from a dominant position.

The fact is, until GSP actually has to use his BJJ we'll never know whos better.

[québecwarrior]

How the fuck do you know?
That's what I want to know. How did you determine that Silva has better BJJ? Because he uses it more often? Yea, well he's been fightin off of his back while GSP hasn't. GSP doesn't need to fight off of his back because he can use his superior wrestling to get to a more dominant position. The ease with which he passes peoples guards? It's ridiculous. Submissions are ALWAYS reversable, there for a higher failure rate than good old pounding from a dominant position.

The fact is, until GSP actually has to use his BJJ we'll never know whos better.
whey they fight, and GSP pass Anderson's guard, we will know:hey

[brandon9624]

[quote=québecwarrior;3528478]oh and which top fighter he did submitted?
Dan Henderson who was eating HARD BLOW to the head clean and who werent able to stand on his feet no more.
Maybe Hendo should have just tapped when Silva started landing clean blows to his head, like another fighter I can think of.

[québecwarrior]

[quote=québecwarrior;3528478]oh and which top fighter he did submitted?
Dan Henderson who was eating HARD BLOW to the head clean and who werent able to stand on his feet no more.
Maybe Hendo should have just tapped when Silva started landing clean blows to his head, like another fighter I can think of.
well, at least that fighter you can think of didnt get beat by hall of famer TAKASE:good

[alewaboy52]

fact----anderson silva has not lost a single fight in the ufc, or have any of his fights had to go the distance

[chimba]

Yes.

I have no idea why you quoted me.
I quoted you because you said that GSPs ground game is so much better than Silva which is you talking out of your ass. Gsps takedown and Takedown defense is better than Silva, but that doesnt make it so much better.

Make a poll if you want :lol:

[ufoalf]

I think we should make a poll and stick it up ur hole.

[chimba]

I think we should make a poll and stick up ur hole.

:lol:

[Polymath]

I quoted you because you said that GSPs ground game is so much better than Silva which is you talking out of your ass. Gsps takedown and Takedown defense is better than Silva, but that doesnt make it so much better.


Ok.

[achillesthegreat]

I watched GSP v Sherk yesterday. Totally forgot about that fight. That is another great win as Sherk is very accomplished.

[québecwarrior]

People often forget that Sherk only lost to elite fighter in their prime.

[achillesthegreat]

People often forget that Sherk only lost to elite fighter in their prime.
Fact. No shame in losing to Hughes, Penn and GSP. He has wins over Karo, Florian etc Sherks a good fighter but the steroids cast a shadow. Still a quality win by GSP.

[québecwarrior]

fact----anderson silva has not lost a single fight in the ufc, or have any of his fights had to go the distance
His Cote fight was about to go to the distance:yep

[brandon9624]

His Cote fight was about to go to the distance:yep
Wasn't it a championship fight? They still had two rounds to go, even if Cote had made it out of the third round.

[Vitor Belfort]

Anderson Silva.. he is still undefeated in the ufc while GSP was knockout by serra.

Silva has just look dominating lately-Franklin 2x-marquardt-henderson-lutter .. his last fight vs cote should have never gone to the 3rd rd. He should have finished him early.

[Beebs]

Very close, only reason I have to give it to anderson is that he has gone up in weight.

On the other hand gsp has beat slightly better guys for longer
and seems to have more ways to win

[québecwarrior]

Wasn't it a championship fight? They still had two rounds to go, even if Cote had made it out of the third round.
Yep, but Anderson Silva wouldnt have been able to KO him:hey Cote is submittable, but unkoable:lol:

[Beebs]

Yep, but Anderson Silva wouldnt have been able to KO him:hey Cote is submittable, but unkoable:lol:

Absolute joke.

[québecwarrior]

Everybody is ''Koedable''(spelling please or maybe it dont exist), but i'm sticking to the fact that Cote would have lost on UD. He was giving no chance to Silva to complete his combo. Cote didnt want to engage or try to counter. He was doing a fantastic job of always stepping out of range, and change his rythm. I don't buy the crap that Silva was bored and was toying with him. Comon.

Cote didnt have the plan to win. He had the plan to go to the distance. With his iron chin, he wouldnt have been koed by a single punch. Or knee like he was caught. He was always eating the first strike, and stepping out. It's not my opinion. It's the fact of the fight.

[Bill Butcher]

P4P is a title that changes hands more than any other, its the only title you can lose without actually losing a fight.
Your only as good p4p as your last fight.... GSP looked more impressive vs BJ than Silva did vs Cote so perhaps GSP can claim to be no2 but since Silva did still beat Cote & beat him without leaving 2nd gear & would beat him 12 days a week & 5 times on a tuesday Im gonna give the edge to Silva, he has never lost in UFC & even tested the waters at LHWT, winning by KO in rd 1.
A fight between the 2 would be interesting indeed, it might tell us a great deal concerning this no2 spot.

[Sweet Pea]

GSP right now based on their recent performances. Close but clear IMO.

[Vanboxingfan]

P4P is a title that changes hands more than any other, its the only title you can lose without actually losing a fight.
Your only as good p4p as your last fight.... GSP looked more impressive vs BJ than Silva did vs Cote so perhaps GSP can claim to be no2 but since Silva did still beat Cote & beat him without leaving 2nd gear & would beat him 12 days a week & 5 times on a tuesday Im gonna give the edge to Silva, he has never lost in UFC & even tested the waters at LHWT, winning by KO in rd 1.
A fight between the 2 would be interesting indeed, it might tell us a great deal concerning this no2 spot.


I have a different view if they fought. While I think it's debatable who's p4p #1, I personally think it's Andersion, but it's close, I don't think an actually fight between the two would be overly competitive. I just think Silva's too skilled and too big to lose to GSP, and GSP has virtually no chance of winning a stand up contest. Having said that, if GSP could get Silva down, it becomes interesting. I just doen't think he'd get the opportunity.

[Vitor Belfort]

Anderson Silva - This guy hasn't loss since he came to the ufc. He dominated franklin twice-beat dan henderson who was in the top 10 P4P and basically run over the rest of the competition. This guy is a beast :good