What if: Larry Holmes rematched Tim Witherspoon

[CzarKyle]

What if Larry Holmes held a rematch with Tim Witherspoon in 1984 when both men had heavyweight belts?*

Would Witherspoon be able to beat a post-prime Holmes much more convincingly, or would Holmes do his "tight rope" routine and win another close match?

*Larry still held the lineal title while Tim held the WBC. Larry wouldn't defend the IBF title until a couple months after Tim lost his belt to Pinklon Thomas.

Writer's Note: This match would have never really happened. Unless Larry found it important to get his stripped title back. It seems a little absurd.

[spion]

Tough fight for Holmes for sure. I think the first fight with Witherspoon Holmes might have underestimated him. He fought Witherspoon less than two months after chasing Lucien Rodriquez around the ring and being that Witherspoon had limited amateur experience coupled with only 15 pro fights (albeit undefeated fights) looked to be a quality yet beatable opponent. Witherspoon proved different and gave Holmes hell in that fight. Witherspoon was a very tough fighter, took a good punch and delivered a good punch too. Witherspoon was very motivated for that first fight. I believe that if Holmes (after having already faced Witherspoon) would be a lot more motivated knowing the fight before him and could eak out another points victory. Holmes had a lot of fortitude when motivated and I believe this time he would give himself time to rest a begin training in earnest. Would be another great fight!

[Mendoza]

I think Witherpsoon is a top 30 head to head ATG at heavyweight. If Politics in the form of a certain wired haired promoter were not against him, Witherpoon could have achieved even greater acclaim.

A few things to consider here.

1 ) I thought Holmes won the fight by narrow margin.

2 ) It was perhaps Witherpsoon's best night in terms of performance.

3 ) Holmes likely underestimated Witherspoon a tad.

Points #2 and #3 would not be as hard on Holmes in the re-match.

[MAG1965]

Great question. I could not pick . It see it hard for Larry to win easily that is for sure, but he probably would win. This could almost be a draw.

[JohnThomas1]

I don't think Witherspoon could come into a second fight as motivated and in form and i also think Holmes would have been 10% more driven and informed. Holmes by competitive decision.

[Rubber Warrior]

I don't think Witherspoon could come into a second fight as motivated and in form and i also think Holmes would have been 10% more driven and informed. Holmes by competitive decision.

Agreed. Holmes too shrewd and focused. Spoon was an underachiever and rarely gave us two solid showings in a row.

[mr. magoo]

I don't think Witherspoon could come into a second fight as motivated and in form and i also think Holmes would have been 10% more driven and informed. Holmes by competitive decision.


I concur,

Once Holmes knew how to beat a fighter and was well aware of what they were capable of, he made the necessary adjustments, just as we saw in the Spinks rematch. Additionally, I'm not so sure that the Tim Witherspoon we saw in 1983 ever showed his face again. Yes, he had other good performances, but probably none quite like that one.

[Bummy Davis]

Witherspoon was OK but did not exceed the level of ordinary....In fact..only Mike Tyson emerged as above ordinary in that era and that was later.....Look at Witherspoon's wins (who did he beat, who did he lose to...How motervated was he to get in shape...Could he have beaten Holmes...Could he have gotten into condition....Tim was "Terrible" at training but he still had a decent enough right hand (that wobbled Larry) and was young...Holmes had more experience ....the rematch could have went to Tim but T.Spoon would have lost it to someone afterwoods...He could get up for a fight but could not stay in condition...He was an average fighter but had good hands....he may have been above average if he was dedicated.

[Holmes' Jab]

Larry: UD. Not as wafer-thin as 1st fight, but very competitive.

[Holmes' Jab]

Witherspoon at his best certainly wasn't ordinary. The 'ordinary' tag from any contender of that era should go to Tony Tucker.

[leverage]

Holmes was starting to go downhill and witherspoon was starting to peak. "Spoon" had larry's number and holmes knew it, and I believe that's why he didn't grant Tim a rematch. Witherspoon would have cleaned his clock if they fought again, probably even stopping him.

[mr. magoo]

Witherspoon at his best certainly wasn't ordinary.


Agreed.

While the 1980's weren't exactly swimming with the type of talent that the 1970's were, some of the top contenders and fragment titlists weren't "that" bad. What's more, whatever talent there was available, Witherspoon arguably beat the best of the crop, or at least a large portion. Tony Tubbs, Greg Page, Frank Bruno, Renaldo Snipes, James Tillis, James Smith, James Broad, Jose Ribalta and Carl Williams were all ranked fighters and at least two of those guys were either past, present or future titlists. Additionally, he fought in close matches against Holmes and Thomas with under 20 pro fights to his name.

[JIm Broughton]

Assuming that Witherspoon comes into the 2nd fight with Larry well trained and motivated, I think he takes it. Tim gave Larry hell in thier 1st fight and almost took it(Some think he did) largely by nullifying Larry's jab to a degree. Larry himself said before fightiong Spinks the 1st time that he was "sick of big guys beating me upside the head". Larry at this stage of his career was finding it difficult to keep big skilled men off of him. Especially men who jabbed back at him ala Witherspoon and Williams. If Tim (Note the emphasis on the word IF) fought Larry a 2nd time and was conditioned and determined to take the title then I think he does.

[MRBILL]

Excuses or not, but Larry Holmes came into the May of 1983 fight with Tim Witherspoon with a case of the shits... Thus, Holmes was also lighter in weight (213) than he had expected to be....... Larry Holmes knew Spoon was developing and that he would be strong in that ring.... I was surprised to see Spoon weigh 219 pounds..... Right there, I knew that meant trouble..... However, close fight and all, I gave it to Holmes by a cunt hair......

NOTE:

I also scored Dokes the winner over 15 rds against Weaver earlier that night...... YES! Weaver was the aggresser, and he landed the harder shots too, but Weaver faded down the stretch in the championship rds... I thought Dokes pulled the Ali trick of pitty-pattying his way to a successful title defense..... NO! It was not pretty... But the fight was a goodie.....

MR.BILL:bbb

[JohnThomas1]

NOTE:

I also scored Dokes the winner over 15 rds against Weaver earlier that night...... YES! Weaver was the aggresser, and he landed the harder shots too, but Weaver faded down the stretch in the championship rds... I thought Dokes pulled the Ali trick of pitty-pattying his way to a successful title defense..... NO! It was not pretty... But the fight was a goodie.....

MR.BILL:bbb

You are the first person i have ever seen score that fight for Dokes. The best i have seen him get from many experts was a draw with the majority giving it narrowly to Weaver.

[JohnThomas1]

Agreed. Holmes too shrewd and focused. Spoon was an underachiever and rarely gave us two solid showings in a row.


Good to see ya! Witherspoon probably never performed to this level again, which is a shame.

[JohnThomas1]

I concur,

Once Holmes knew how to beat a fighter and was well aware of what they were capable of, he made the necessary adjustments, just as we saw in the Spinks rematch. Additionally, I'm not so sure that the Tim Witherspoon we saw in 1983 ever showed his face again. Yes, he had other good performances, but probably none quite like that one.

Agreed mate.

[Arka]

Witherspoon at his best certainly wasn't ordinary. The 'ordinary' tag from any contender of that era should go to Tony Tucker.


Could you expand on that Holme's Jab?
On the face of it a fighter going the distance with Tyson and Lennox Lewis and KO'ing Buster Douglas,is at least "above average".
Is there anything you see in the videos of Tony Tucker,that make you think that he was pretty run of the mill. In regards to conditioning,possessing decent fundamentals or a solid punch,I can't see much wrong with him.

[Bummy Davis]

Witherspoon at his best certainly wasn't ordinary. The 'ordinary' tag from any contender of that era should go to Tony Tucker.


See and I thought Tony Tucker was a much better fighter than Witherspoon

[Rubber Warrior]

Good to see ya! Witherspoon probably never performed to this level again, which is a shame.


Good to see you too, my friend.

One more thing, the worst thing about the Holmes/Spoon fight was Angelo Dundee's commentating. Just abysmal work.

[ThinBlack]

I think Tim would be motivated enough to give Larry a good tussle again, but it probably wouldn't be enough to win.115-113 win for Larry in a 12 rounder, 144-141 win for Larry if it's a 15 rounder.