KANE Brothers boxing gym in UNDERBELLY

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

The early episodes of the new UNDERBELLY series have focussed on the KANE brother's boxing gym of the late 1970’s, run by Les & Bryan Kane. In the show the gym sequences are filmed in a Collingwood gym.

Would be interested to know whether anyone actually remembers where the real Kane Brothers gym was located, who might have trained with them, any other details etc.

A story goes that Les Kane actually trained under Anbrose Palmer at one stage.

[Bentchassis]

Chopper Read mentions Ambrose in a number of his books, i would say their's a number of shady characters have passed under him including the Kane's, will check tonight.

[atigerofold]

I trained at Palmers from 1969 - 1973; Chopper was not there. Brian Kane was not there training. The gym was open to all. When Fammo was there, there would be possibly one hundred plus spectators there. Who knows who may have been standing there watching. A Daryl and Graeme Kane fought under Ambrose at this time. Cousin of Brian Kane? Possibly.

I believe that this Kane gym that is portrayed as them supposedly operating is a fantasy of the producers of Underbelly....which does a dis-service to all in boxing....tainting the flavour of our sport yet again. Domanic Gatto is depicted as training at this fantasy gym in Underbelly. He was trained at Keven Waterson's gym, Kevin ran the two up school with Nappy Ollington for numerous years there, in a floor above or below the gym, depending what night of the week, and who was keeping nit. The producers ignorance to portray the truth is understandable (being sued), and typical or perhaps just lazy.

For those truth seekers, like yourselves, it is better to ask older heads that were there part of the time. Writing about these things is often dangerous also (being sued).

Gradually, and unfortunately, shows like Underbelly will unintentionately replace the facts with their fiction.

ps: Many people like to 'drop names', and say they were associated with great legends. It happens in every sport. People, including criminals and drop-kicks like Choppa, like mentioning their connections to boxing legends like the Great Ambrose Palmer. They feel it gives them some qualification or kudos in the sport of boxing. A crystal ball might reveal the truth, of them perhaps coming to the gym once as a spectator and shaking his hand. If you were to count and identify the number of people who shook the legend Ambrose Palmer's hand, you would gain some understanding of the awe he created. To ask Palmer whether he actually knew these criminals and drop kicks, or whether he had met them, would be a most difficult thing for him to remember, and any other sports legend would have the same difficulty.

Having been to Palmer's house as a guest on two occasions, and having met his wife May, and his daughters.... I can say ( with some credibility I hope), that Palmer was a devoted husband, and father to his family. His interests were in his family, and boxing, and football, and horse racing. He was a very wealthy man, this wealth was not gained through crime. He had no interests in crime, or its crims and villains. If he had any associations with crims, it would be those who he was training at his boxing gym - from time to time. It is a mortal sin to ever/even think of Palmer as an associate of Brian Kane or Choppa.

In boxing, many fellows, kids come to the gym as crims; as a trainer, you hope and try to influence and lead them away from this. In the years I knew Palmer he spoke as a gentleman....not once, not once! did I ever hear him swear...or blaspheme or even say a nasty word. His military service and dedication to his sports, boxing and football should also bear some great weight, as a testimony to the man , in not being associated with criminals.

(And lets not forget that local Football clubs have young crims playing in their clubs too; you would not lable the local football coach as a friend or consorter of these criminals, just because he coaches a kid who does burglaries or sells drugs.)

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

I trained at Palmers from 1969 - 1973; Chopper was not there. Brian Kane was not there training. The gym was open to all. When Fammo was there, there would be possibly one hundred plus spectators there. Who knows who may have been standing there watching. A Daryl and Graeme Kane fought under Ambrose at this time. Cousin of Brian Kane? Possibly.

I believe that this Kane gym that is portrayed as them supposedly operating is a fantasy of the producers of Underbelly....which does a dis-service to all in boxing....tainting the flavour of our sport yet again. Domanic Gatto is depicted as training at this fantasy gym in Underbelly. He was trained at Keven Waterson's gym, Kevin ran the two up school with Nappy Ollington for numerous years there, in a floor above or below the gym, depending what night of the week, and who was keeping nit. The producers ignorance to portray the truth is understandable (being sued), and typical or perhaps just lazy.

For those truth seekers, like yourselves, it is better to ask older heads that were there part of the time. Writing about these things is often dangerous also (being sued).

Gradually, and unfortunately, shows like Underbelly will unintentionately replace the facts with their fiction.

Good answer.

I figured there'd be some artistic licence built-in regarding the Kane's and their boxing. But I didn't think they'd go as far as 'creating' a Kane's gym, when they perhaps 'only trained' in somewhere else's. Still, many other inaccuracies have already been identified in the show, so what's another one?

I guess it made sense to condence Gatto into the Kane gym as well for the sake of telling a good, easy to follow story.

As you said it's better to ask (wise) older heads about such matters - in this case you're the wise older head mate....and you are right, it doesn't paint boxing in a good light the way they've slanted things.

....by the way, was it you that fought Rocky Mattioli, or was that your brother?

[atigerofold]

Ha ha ha CHB
I can say I fought him several times in Palmers gym (over six rounders), wildly and spitefully....but it is my greater brother actually has the boxrec-ord.
Good on ya mate....

re:Underbelly. We supporters of boxing could possibly start a 'Class Action' against Underbelly producers, as showing a tendency to denigrate our sport of boxing.....I'll donate a few quid.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Good addition above by yourself to your earlier post.

What you say about people trying to trade off others reputations after a single meeting etc is absolutely true in many sports & endeavours. I've seen it first hand time and again in cricket and other sports I've been involved in.

By the way I didn't seek to denegrate the great Ambrose Palmer in any way with this discussion - will elaborate shortly.

[WhataRock]

Cheers for the info guys.

I have never heard of a Kane brothers gym before and thought it might have been a bit of bullshit for the show.

Is it true that Ambrose was that the VIP section when the Great bookie robbery happened? And he was told he could sit down on a chair and he didnt have to lie on the floor?
I was told this before the series aired, cant be sure of it validity though.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Cheers for the info guys.

I have never heard of a Kane brothers gym before and thought it might have been a bit of bullshit for the show.

Is it true that Ambrose was that the VIP section when the Great bookie robbery happened? And he was told he could sit down on a chair and he didnt have to lie on the floor?
I was told this before the series aired, cant be sure of it validity though.

It's always hard to sort the fact from the fiction in these things Rock.

I found a reference on the Dockers Union website relevant to the Bookie Robbery & the Kane's. Plus the alledged link to Ambrose Palmer. Here's the shortcut if you want to have a read. You'll need to dig down a bit on the page to find the relevant section.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[atigerofold]

I have read the Dockerunion site several times; its reference to APalmer was the Dockerunion website quoting Melbournecrime.com.........a site which apparantly only existed for a very short time, not hard to wonder why.

I've seen better (written) "evidence" from blinded graffitti bandits in a pitch black train-tunnel.

"The Bookie Club was an exclusive distinguished group of horse racing identities and on-track-bookmakers, that met regularly and talked about horse racing. It had a bar, and you could also place a bet there. (tabcor grabbed their old idea and have now marketed it to the back teeth, but back then, it was exclusive.) Ambrose Palmer was a avid horse race fan. He invested in some horses. He often invested in a bet. He would regularly go to Flemington Members and Caulfield Membes on each Saturday.

When the masked robbers entered the booky club, they told all punters and dignatories to get down on the ground, except Ambrose, he was allowed to sit on a chair...the crook saying to him, "Not you Ambrose, you sit on a chair" or words to that affect. Not one to argue with a gun, Ambrose sat on the chair. He did not know the character and did not identify the character.....reason for this was that he did not know the character and could not identify the character.

You've read my text in another Kane Thread.....I will not further espouse the finer virtues of the legend Palmer here again. Legends are known by everyone, including masked robbers. If Bert Newton had have been at the booky club, who knows he might have gained a seat also, and also been included in this mystery. Just bad luck that Ambrose was at the club enjoying his racing and racing friends that day.

I can honestly say that I have never heard that Palmer was ever able to reveal that Les Kane was the man who was 'courteous' to him at the Great Bookie Robbery. I think this is a speculation, or an invention, invented by others for their own different reasons...probably invented over much alcohol. ( I say this with my own very interested and clear mind about this event - at that time, and hearing that Amby was at the Club; I had good information, with regards to the things I was doing as a policeman then, and shortly after the event when serving as a detective in two of the major crime squads in Melbourne - but what would a dumb-ole, punchy, ex- coppa know? )

Such a shame that these brave people come out after Palmer had died and manufacture more myth. (Atigerofold in another thread)"

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

...I've seen better (written) "evidence" from blinded graffitti bandits in a pitch black train-tunnel.

Justifiable critisism - I only raised it to see what others on the forum might remember or have heard (from reliable sources).

I'd reckon what Rock heard about A.B. being offered a chair (assuming he was there) whilst others were forced to lay on the floor is probably also b/s....but who'd really know unless they were misfortunate to have been there themselves - and still be around.

[LeonMcS]

CHB, that dockers site is one strange place...makes the usual suspects here look like Rhodes scholars.

[atigerofold]

Good to see you have some science in your thinking LeonMcs;
in this computer age, we are so shaped by the technology and
media to often believe what is said or implied.

We must test and support info presented as fact, we must take a scientific reasoned approach to all claims, who people are, what goals they support, what organisation they might speak on behalf of, why and what are the motivations for what they are reporting......(sorry to give the obvious lesson)

I woiuld hope that with my honesty here, I would be regarded as a better witness, not first hand, but close to it; these proclamations made are horridly wrong, and has forces me to show my hand.

I will now retreat to my chair and not say anymore about these times.

[ashley]

I trained at Palmers from 1969 - 1973; Chopper was not there. Brian Kane was not there training. The gym was open to all. When Fammo was there, there would be possibly one hundred plus spectators there. Who knows who may have been standing there watching. A Daryl and Graeme Kane fought under Ambrose at this time. Cousin of Brian Kane? Possibly.

I believe that this Kane gym that is portrayed as them supposedly operating is a fantasy of the producers of Underbelly....which does a dis-service to all in boxing....tainting the flavour of our sport yet again. Domanic Gatto is depicted as training at this fantasy gym in Underbelly. He was trained at Keven Waterson's gym, Kevin ran the two up school with Nappy Ollington for numerous years there, in a floor above or below the gym, depending what night of the week, and who was keeping nit. The producers ignorance to portray the truth is understandable (being sued), and typical or perhaps just lazy.

For those truth seekers, like yourselves, it is better to ask older heads that were there part of the time. Writing about these things is often dangerous also (being sued).

Gradually, and unfortunately, shows like Underbelly will unintentionately replace the facts with their fiction.

ps: Many people like to 'drop names', and say they were associated with great legends. It happens in every sport. People, including criminals and drop-kicks like Choppa, like mentioning their connections to boxing legends like the Great Ambrose Palmer. They feel it gives them some qualification or kudos in the sport of boxing. A crystal ball might reveal the truth, of them perhaps coming to the gym once as a spectator and shaking his hand. If you were to count and identify the number of people who shook the legend Ambrose Palmer's hand, you would gain some understanding of the awe he created. To ask Palmer whether he actually knew these criminals and drop kicks, or whether he had met them, would be a most difficult thing for him to remember, and any other sports legend would have the same difficulty.

Having been to Palmer's house as a guest on two occasions, and having met his wife May, and his daughters.... I can say ( with some credibility I hope), that Palmer was a devoted husband, and father to his family. His interests were in his family, and boxing, and football, and horse racing. He was a very wealthy man, this wealth was not gained through crime. He had no interests in crime, or its crims and villains. If he had any associations with crims, it would be those who he was training at his boxing gym - from time to time. It is a mortal sin to ever/even think of Palmer as an associate of Brian Kane or Choppa.

In boxing, many fellows, kids come to the gym as crims; as a trainer, you hope and try to influence and lead them away from this. In the years I knew Palmer he spoke as a gentleman....not once, not once! did I ever hear him swear...or blaspheme or even say a nasty word. His military service and dedication to his sports, boxing and football should also bear some great weight, as a testimony to the man , in not being associated with criminals.

(And lets not forget that local Football clubs have young crims playing in their clubs too; you would not lable the local football coach as a friend or consorter of these criminals, just because he coaches a kid who does burglaries or sells drugs.)

TV producers can get away with anything...dont waste your cash mate.

On another note please post here more often as it would be interesting to here and learn some stories of the good old days :good

[atigerofold]

Thanks Ashley.

[LeonMcS]

Tiger, the actual thread you linked was very interesting...just not sure about a forum entitled 'Trust Spades if you want to... Not me!!'.

[Bentchassis]

I trained at Palmers from 1969 - 1973; Chopper was not there. Brian Kane was not there training. The gym was open to all. When Fammo was there, there would be possibly one hundred plus spectators there. Who knows who may have been standing there watching. A Daryl and Graeme Kane fought under Ambrose at this time. Cousin of Brian Kane? Possibly.

I believe that this Kane gym that is portrayed as them supposedly operating is a fantasy of the producers of Underbelly....which does a dis-service to all in boxing....tainting the flavour of our sport yet again. Domanic Gatto is depicted as training at this fantasy gym in Underbelly. He was trained at Keven Waterson's gym, Kevin ran the two up school with Nappy Ollington for numerous years there, in a floor above or below the gym, depending what night of the week, and who was keeping nit. The producers ignorance to portray the truth is understandable (being sued), and typical or perhaps just lazy.

For those truth seekers, like yourselves, it is better to ask older heads that were there part of the time. Writing about these things is often dangerous also (being sued).

Gradually, and unfortunately, shows like Underbelly will unintentionately replace the facts with their fiction.

ps: Many people like to 'drop names', and say they were associated with great legends. It happens in every sport. People, including criminals and drop-kicks like Choppa, like mentioning their connections to boxing legends like the Great Ambrose Palmer. They feel it gives them some qualification or kudos in the sport of boxing. A crystal ball might reveal the truth, of them perhaps coming to the gym once as a spectator and shaking his hand. If you were to count and identify the number of people who shook the legend Ambrose Palmer's hand, you would gain some understanding of the awe he created. To ask Palmer whether he actually knew these criminals and drop kicks, or whether he had met them, would be a most difficult thing for him to remember, and any other sports legend would have the same difficulty.

Having been to Palmer's house as a guest on two occasions, and having met his wife May, and his daughters.... I can say ( with some credibility I hope), that Palmer was a devoted husband, and father to his family. His interests were in his family, and boxing, and football, and horse racing. He was a very wealthy man, this wealth was not gained through crime. He had no interests in crime, or its crims and villains. If he had any associations with crims, it would be those who he was training at his boxing gym - from time to time. It is a mortal sin to ever/even think of Palmer as an associate of Brian Kane or Choppa.

In boxing, many fellows, kids come to the gym as crims; as a trainer, you hope and try to influence and lead them away from this. In the years I knew Palmer he spoke as a gentleman....not once, not once! did I ever hear him swear...or blaspheme or even say a nasty word. His military service and dedication to his sports, boxing and football should also bear some great weight, as a testimony to the man , in not being associated with criminals.

(And lets not forget that local Football clubs have young crims playing in their clubs too; you would not lable the local football coach as a friend or consorter of these criminals, just because he coaches a kid who does burglaries or sells drugs.)

Fairplay mate, thanks for letting us in on the real story :good

Just to clarify Chopper never claimed to be associated with Ambrose, only mentioning his chance involvement in the bookie robbery. He also went onto say that Les Kane was not the familiar voice in question either. Whatever the case, apologies for using old Chop Chop as a reference to the great man...

[atigerofold]

LeonMcS, sorry mate, I am not able to follow what you are implying...please excuse my ignorance to understand your direction or message to me; I am sometimes a bit slow at getting the 'drift' - hey, I tried though, I even went to the main page and looked for the thread you suggested, "Trust Spades if you want to ..not me!!" I am out now, in China, for some dinner, be back in a few hours though.

[LeonMcS]

You're ok mate, at the bottom of the page is a little bar that expand into a slew of other forum topics...that was one of a few that were a bit on the nose. As to your original link I enjoyed, thats why I explored the site further...and found the 'Trust' forum.

[atigerofold]

Flamengo and CHB
Thanks very much for your messages.
I have tried for some time, to respond to these messages,but have had much difficulty in doing this. Have sent replies but they get wiped out. I am probably chosing the wrong option or button - I don't know.
Will get back to you tomorrow...dog tired now, going to bed.
Kind Regards,
atigerofold

[cedrichw]

The early episodes of the new UNDERBELLY series have focussed on the KANE brother's boxing gym of the late 1970’s, run by Les & Bryan Kane. In the show the gym sequences are filmed in a Collingwood gym.

Would be interested to know whether anyone actually remembers where the real Kane Brothers gym was located, who might have trained with them, any other details etc.

A story goes that Les Kane actually trained under Anbrose Palmer at one stage.


it's funny the Gym sequences and Pub sequences both set in Melbourne were filmed in Sydney. Whats wrong with Melborne

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

it's funny the Gym sequences and Pub sequences both set in Melbourne were filmed in Sydney. Whats wrong with Melborne

Hey Cedric, we provided all the bad bastards in the first Underbelly!

[cedrichw]

Under belly 6 might take place in Perth and i bet there would be a lot of boxing sequences over here

[LeonMcS]

Not really, mostly gyms on fire...

[brooksie]

Underbelly can not be viewed with any form of credibility. How can they portray Les Kane getting mowed down by 3 crims with automatic shooters and theres not one bullet hole anywhere in the room. Hell he must have stopped some bullets.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Underbelly can not be viewed with any form of credibility. How can they portray Les Kane getting mowed down by 3 crims with automatic shooters and theres not one bullet hole anywhere in the room. Hell he must have stopped some bullets.

Spot on mate. Was thinking the same thing. There wouldn't have been any bathroom left for the missus to have mopped up!

[Rodin]

Spot on mate. Was thinking the same thing. There wouldn't have been any bathroom left for the missus to have mopped up!

Funny youse mention this (Bathroom scene).
Many years ago, I was in a Brisbane waterfront pub & there was a bloke from down south trying to sell a handgun. My mate & late "Noongah" sinking hero Kenny McIntyre took a shine to it.
This gun was a notoriously unreliable unit that would often misfire because of a sloppy chamber.
I advised Kenny to give it a miss, but the fascination was too great & they sloped off to the toilet to talk turkey.
Next this there was this ungodly explosion & shouts that only a tile & concrete room can reverberate.
All of a sudden they burst from the dunny. Kenny grabbed a beer spilling half of it as he tried to quell his terror & get some colour back into his face, they other bloke sprinted blindly across the busy road & pelted the roscoe into the Brisbane river.
It was revealed that during the negotiation, the "fence" was explaining the peculularities of the short arm & it went off.
The bullet circumnavigaterd the bathroom several times trying to find something soft to rest in, our two Black Ops warriors thought they were surround by a columbian drug cartel as the richocheying projectile echoed it's brief but lethal passage.
It was so funny, the publican even copped it sweet.

With this episode in mind,,When I saw those blokes emptying their repeaters into that bathroom I would have thought they would have all been shredded.:rofl:rofl:rofl

[atigerofold]

Six johnny hoppers were sitting at the mess room table of an inner police station at about 4am in the morning, having a roast 'lunch' being cooked by the 'watch-house keeper'....everything was quiet on the eastern front, so it was time for a leg-a-lamb and a few sherberts.......I am sitting at the table, the cook is taking the cooked lamb out of the oven; this new bloke sitting beside me, is trying to impress me with the new leather gun holster he had just purchased.....he says to me, "have look at this grinna, the leather strap and clip is so solid on this holster, that you can pull the trigger on the gun as hard as you like and the hammer won't come back!"....

B A N G !!!!!

The thirty eight ricochets off the floor below the table, grazes the leg of the johnnyhopper sitting opposite him, goes between him and another coppar, hits the brick wall, hits the fridge and then ceiling.....meanwhile, we have discarded chairs and have all dived for the floor. Seriously, the cook drops his leg of lamb, immediately putting both hands up to his head for protection......we all shake our heads, the leg of lamb is dirty and dumped - no body wants it; we grabbed and bundled up that farkwit and put him in the cells for a few hours as a lesson. (summary justice does work sometimes):nono

[flamengo]

Sounds like a Turkey spoilt the dinner.....

[RayKelly]

Underbelly can not be viewed with any form of credibility. How can they portray Les Kane getting mowed down by 3 crims with automatic shooters and theres not one bullet hole anywhere in the room. Hell he must have stopped some bullets.
Knowing TV producers it was probably due to sponsorship in the form of product placement. Maybe we will soon see advertising for a certain brand bathroom tile that 'won't get dirty even in the messiest of situations' :yep

[Phil Austin]

I don't think Underbelly's credibility hinges on ballistic accuracy but more about getting the story right. At that range every slug from those sten guns would have torn straight thru him and fucked the entire bathroom up let alone the rounds that would have missed him. Isn't the important thing the re-telling of the actual murder rather than semantics?
One interesting point a mate of mine in the know made was the centralising of the female coppers role in the whole thing, in his words back then all she would have been doing is making the tea!

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

I don't think Underbelly's credibility hinges on ballistic accuracy but more about getting the story right.....

Even getting the story 'right' seems to be a balance between faith to the facts and entertainment. Every now and then media or other compare what's portrayed to history, and there are many inaccuracies...but hey, it great entertainment.

Just as a random example, in Underbelly 1 Ang Goussis (a very promising amateur boxer) was portrayed as a 'bystander' in a murder outside a pub in a car. He was only recently found guilty of that murder and another, and recieved a 30 year sentence.

[bushboy]

Even getting the story 'right' seems to be a balance between faith to the facts and entertainment. Every now and then media or other compare what's portrayed to history, and there are many inaccuracies...but hey, it great entertainment.

Just as a random example, in Underbelly 1 Ang Goussis (a very promising amateur boxer) was portrayed as a 'bystander' in a murder outside a pub in a car. He was only recently found guilty of that murder and another, and recieved a 30 year sentence.

Yeah spot on CHB, Just reading up on Goussis it seems as though he was quite active in the deaths of lewis moran and lewis caine.
His portrayal in underbelly is that of a bystander/accesory after the fact.

I think in the interest of a quickly moving story they miss a few minor characters

[Phil Austin]

That and the point that they can only go on the accepted "facts"they have at the time of production I guess

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Yeah spot on CHB, Just reading up on Goussis it seems as though he was quite active in the deaths of lewis moran and lewis caine.


They were the two he was found guilty of Bushy. This article from the Age newspaper about a year ago is worth a read:

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