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View Full Version : How many heavyweights do you think M. Spinks could have beaten from 1985-1987?


mr. magoo
02-27-2009, 12:00 PM
Similar topics have been done on this subject, and we have seen matchups on here such as Spinks vs Tucker, Witherspoon, Williams, etc.

This time I would like people's honest opinion as to what kind of a chance they feel he'd have against the estimated top 10 from 1985-1987.

Without looking at actual organizational ratings nor even the ring's for that matter, here is my guess from memory as to who the best fighters were during that 2-3 year period. People can revise it however they want, and pick who Spinks would beat or not beat.


MAGOO's BEST HEAVY's 1985 -1987

Not necessarily in ranking order from best to worst.

1. Larry Holmes
2. Mike Tyson
3. Tim Witherspoon
4. Pinklon Thomas
5. Trevor Berbick
6. Tony Tubbs
7. Tony Tucker
8. Carl Williams
9. James Smith
10. Marvis Frazier

Honorable mention - Frank Bruno, James Douglas, Tyrell Biggs.


Here is what I think,

Blue - Men that he actually beat or could have beaten during that time.

Green - Men that he might have beaten but I am undecided about

Red - Men that he actually lost to, or would not have my confidence to beat.

1. Larry Holmes
2. Mike Tyson
3. Tim Witherspoon
4. Pinklon Thomas
5. Trevor Berbick
6. Tony Tubbs
7. Tony Tucker
8. Carl Williams
9. James Smith
10. Marvis Frazier

Explanation:

BLUE FIGHTERS - Its obvious that he defeated Holmes already, even though the rematch was a robbery, but still. The first fight was legit, and Holmes was basically done after 1986. Berbick, Williams, Smith and Frazier were all men who could have given Spinks a good fight, but I'm going with the Jinx. Williams didn't have that many fights during these years, and a close fight with the same version of Holmes who Spinks actually defeated isn't enough to tell me that he'd beat the more experienced Spinks. He also fell pretty hard in his 1986 match with an aging Weaver. Smith was too crude and I think Spinks would outbox him handely. Frazier was a good fighter who was quietly beating a lot of respectable heavys during that time, but I think Spinks right hand would have gotten him eventually. Simply put, Marvis just couldn't take it.

Green Fighters - The two fighters who I placed in this category were Tucker and Tubbs. Spinks was originally supposed to face Tucker in 1987 but forfeited his IBF title to fight Gerry Cooney for more money. I often wonder who would have taken this one. On paper, its easy to say that Tucker would have had a good chance. He was 6'5", 228 Lbs, 28 years old, and undefeated 34-0. He was also ducked by Spinks and was one of the few men to take a peak Tyson 12 rounds. When we look closer at his resume however, we will see that the best man he ever defeated was James Douglas who in 1987 was basically viewed as a B level fighter and who was beating Tucker for much of that match before gassing and quitting late. He was also non-aggressive in most of his fights and fought a style that might not have been best suited to beat Spinks. I remain undecided however. Tony Tubbs had both the boxing ability and size to overwhelm michael, but his tendency to show up deconditioned would have been a problem as was his lack of power. In 1987, Tubbs fought three journeyman - two of which took him the distance and one of whom dropped him.. I am also not sure that even a prime Tubbs had much greater boxing ability than even a declining Holmes had in the mid 80's.

Red Fighters- I'll be brief on this one. There are three men who I placed in this category and one of whom dispatched Michael in 91 seconds. While I feel that this was not the best version of Spinks, I don't think that there was anything he could have done at any stage in his career to change the outcome. Tyson had his number and that's all there is to it.. Witherspoon was very awkward and had both the style, power, guts, chin, etc to give Spinks hell. The fight might have gone the distance, but Spoon is just too much for him.. Thomas's power and jab beat Spinks circa 1986.

zadfrak
02-28-2009, 05:09 AM
I, for one, had a lot of doubts about Spinks as a heavy. All of his credentials were based on beating Holmes afterall. But Larry had faded quite a bit and Spinks outhustled him is all. It wasn't exactly a Mike Tyson type execution over Holmes, but a nice decision win.

I didn't like the Spinks chances aginst very many of the top 10 fighters in that timeframe. The one style he could handle was an old guy whose reflexes had diminished. But not the tough physical fighter or youth and reflexes. And I sure didn't like the way Spinks had looked in that 85 bout against Davis and thought his legs had deteriorated quite a bit. As a heavyweight they had to put him in with guys that couldn't capitalize on the footwork issue and an old Holmes and Cooney and Tangstad were optimal opposition. A guy like Tyson was going to be a whole diffferent ballgame though.

I wanted to see Spinks fight Tucker back then and would've backed Tucker to outbox him. I think Page/Tubbs/Williams all outpoint him by a wide margin because the Spinks footwork is not going to get in and out quickly enough. Witherspoon/Bruno get the Ko's.

Pinklon Thomas had deteriorated quite a bit > Weaver but still would've been a stern test due to his jab and chin. Probably a close fight one way or another. Berbick was such a hot and cold guy you can never tell but he was definately a guy that scored lots of upsets in his career & this could be another. Frazier was pretty much a non-factor by then but even a guy like Snipes is a live underdog against Spinks.

I just think Butch Lewis did a masterful job of avoiding the toughest matchups and got his guy a few wins and kept him inactive. Tangstad as an opponent was a page right out of the Holmes title defenses when other viable guys are around. Even the Cooney fight wasn't all that easy and that was a real real bad cut Spinks had in there. Other fighters like a Tubbs or Page or Bruno or any of those guys get Spinks busted up like that would just go on for the tko.

Man, I sure thought the ballgame was over for the guy when he fought Tyson though. He'd fought handpicked opposition and now it was time to fight a big puncher who was extremely aggressive early and was young. Whole different ballgame now and every other time it was the Spinks youth facing the old guys. I didn't think the Spinks legs had a chance in the world in that fight and didn't think he could go 2 rounds. But there were some folks picking Spinks to beat Tyson & I just thought they were buying into the Futch mystique way way too much. And I didn't really buy into the spinx jinx right hand as all that big of a punch at heavy and figured Tyson to walk thru it. If Tyson does walk thru it, what chance does Spinx really have anyway?

doug.ie
02-28-2009, 05:16 AM
i was surprised to see marvis frazier in the top 10 there..you rate him above tyrell biggs at that time ??

mr. magoo
02-28-2009, 08:59 AM
i was surprised to see marvis frazier in the top 10 there..you rate him above tyrell biggs at that time ??


I suppose you can swap out Marvis for Biggs. Biggs really didn't come into the picture until near the end of that time frame ( mid - late 1987. ), and was there very briefly. Marvis was at least a fringle guy from about 1983-1986.

Bummy Davis
02-28-2009, 09:12 AM
I think the real powerfull consistant punchers would have been too strong for him but Spinks could handle the less than powerfull punchers with his ring savy and angles. He would have been competitive

doug.ie
02-28-2009, 10:21 AM
I suppose you can swap out Marvis for Biggs. Biggs really didn't come into the picture until near the end of that time frame ( mid - late 1987. ), and was there very briefly. Marvis was at least a fringle guy from about 1983-1986.

cool :good

i suppose i remember frazier from 3 fights...remember him beating bonecrusher smith...then he fought holmes for the title...and for the first minute and a half looked good...bobbing and weaving..making holmes miss with the jab...then he started showboating, hands down by his side...then...holmes hit him :-)..he went down like he was shot...he got up and holmes starting teeing off on him..evening turning round to the ref asking him to stop the fight..which he eventually did..
and of course i remember the tyson fight...

so..i dont know much about his other wins apart from smith...so maybe he was better than i remember him.

mcvey
02-28-2009, 02:43 PM
Similar topics have been done on this subject, and we have seen matchups on here such as Spinks vs Tucker, Witherspoon, Williams, etc.

This time I would like people's honest opinion as to what kind of a chance they feel he'd have against the estimated top 10 from 1985-1987.

Without looking at actual organizational ratings nor even the ring's for that matter, here is my guess from memory as to who the best fighters were during that 2-3 year period. People can revise it however they want, and pick who Spinks would beat or not beat.


MAGOO's BEST HEAVY's 1985 -1987

Not necessarily in ranking order from best to worst.

1. Larry Holmes
2. Mike Tyson
3. Tim Witherspoon
4. Pinklon Thomas
5. Trevor Berbick
6. Tony Tubbs
7. Tony Tucker
8. Carl Williams
9. James Smith
10. Marvis Frazier

Honorable mention - Frank Bruno, James Douglas, Tyrell Biggs.


Here is what I think,

Blue - Men that he actually beat or could have beaten during that time.

Green - Men that he might have beaten but I am undecided about

Red - Men that he actually lost to, or would not have my confidence to beat.

1. Larry Holmes
2. Mike Tyson
3. Tim Witherspoon
4. Pinklon Thomas
5. Trevor Berbick
6. Tony Tubbs
7. Tony Tucker
8. Carl Williams
9. James Smith
10. Marvis Frazier

Explanation:

BLUE FIGHTERS - Its obvious that he defeated Holmes already, even though the rematch was a robbery, but still. The first fight was legit, and Holmes was basically done after 1986. Berbick, Williams, Smith and Frazier were all men who could have given Spinks a good fight, but I'm going with the Jinx. Williams didn't have that many fights during these years, and a close fight with the same version of Holmes who Spinks actually defeated isn't enough to tell me that he'd beat the more experienced Spinks. He also fell pretty hard in his 1986 match with an aging Weaver. Smith was too crude and I think Spinks would outbox him handely. Frazier was a good fighter who was quietly beating a lot of respectable heavys during that time, but I think Spinks right hand would have gotten him eventually. Simply put, Marvis just couldn't take it.

Green Fighters - The two fighters who I placed in this category were Tucker and Tubbs. Spinks was originally supposed to face Tucker in 1987 but forfeited his IBF title to fight Gerry Cooney for more money. I often wonder who would have taken this one. On paper, its easy to say that Tucker would have had a good chance. He was 6'5", 228 Lbs, 28 years old, and undefeated 34-0. He was also ducked by Spinks and was one of the few men to take a peak Tyson 12 rounds. When we look closer at his resume however, we will see that the best man he ever defeated was James Douglas who in 1987 was basically viewed as a B level fighter and who was beating Tucker for much of that match before gassing and quitting late. He was also non-aggressive in most of his fights and fought a style that might not have been best suited to beat Spinks. I remain undecided however. Tony Tubbs had both the boxing ability and size to overwhelm michael, but his tendency to show up deconditioned would have been a problem as was his lack of power. In 1987, Tubbs fought three journeyman - two of which took him the distance and one of whom dropped him.. I am also not sure that even a prime Tubbs had much greater boxing ability than even a declining Holmes had in the mid 80's.

Red Fighters- I'll be brief on this one. There are three men who I placed in this category and one of whom dispatched Michael in 91 seconds. While I feel that this was not the best version of Spinks, I don't think that there was anything he could have done at any stage in his career to change the outcome. Tyson had his number and that's all there is to it.. Witherspoon was very awkward and had both the style, power, guts, chin, etc to give Spinks hell. The fight might have gone the distance, but Spoon is just too much for him.. Thomas's power and jab beat Spinks circa 1986.



He bets Marvis, any others would be unexpected ,imo.

JIm Broughton
03-01-2009, 01:32 PM
I don't think it's a coincidence that Spinks was matched against "safe" heavyweight opposition. An old Holmes, Never really tested and alchohol soaked Cooney and Stephen whatever the hell is name is doesn't parlay into heavyweight greatness. When Spinks fought a true heavyweight dreadnought in Tyson he was annihilated. Spinks was carefully matched until he could collect a hefty payday against Tyson then call it quits which is exactly what he did.

ThinBlack
10-17-2011, 11:51 AM
Marvis Frazier, possibly Trevor Berbick, Tubbs and Tucker would be too much for him.