Juan Manuel Marquez performance tonight [Archive]

Robbi

03-01-2009, 12:31 AM

I was impressed with Marquez tonight. Most regulars who I discuss points with on certain threads will know I'm a fan of him. Certainly when it comes to quality orthodox technique I rate him up there with the best fighters in history. Louis, Arguello, Hopkins, etc.

Diaz bullied and tried to take him out of his comfort zone. It was a fairly even fight up until the stoppage. Marquez wasn't in as much trouble as the commentators suggested. When Marquez was against the ropes he bent his knees and made the somewhat erratic Diaz miss. The state of Marquez's face showed that he was taking punches, no question, but not as many as the forensic evidence would lead you to believe. He swells up easily. And while he's not quite Pep or Locche, his defense is fairly decent. Not great, but not bad either.

I really like the way Marquez always keeps his technique tidy and compact, no matter if he's throwing punches at slow, medium or high pace. Some fighters tend to lose leverage and tidyness when they fight on maxium speed. I knew Marquez was going to stop Diaz after he got up from the first knockdown. His accuracy with both hands when going in for the kill was helped with his superb technique, speed, and momentum.

I really like watching Marquez fight. He's just a good solid all round fighter.

Mega Lamps

03-01-2009, 12:35 AM

I agree. If his greatness was in question before this fight, its now been solidified for sure.
A great card with excellent performances tonight.

the cobra

03-01-2009, 12:37 AM

I think he's become my favorite fighter now. Former featherweight who knocked out the top 2 lightweights in his last 2 fights, both of whom had never been stopped before, and at the age of 35. He's fantastic.

Very good all around and tough as hell. Beautiful knockout to close the show.

jones1

03-01-2009, 12:38 AM

The man has beautiful technique. Has anyone ever seen someone throw uppercuts like him? They have this nice rolling quality about them that comes from the shoulders, never seen anything like it

frankwornank

03-01-2009, 12:45 AM

Maxmomer

03-01-2009, 12:49 AM

I think I'm going to enjoy watching this fight again and again because I'll be able to notice more of the subtle adjustments Marquez makes along the way to counter Diaz pressure and aggression. He was great tonight, and even though Diaz was the aggressor and pushing the action, I felt that Marquez was pretty well in control most of the time. He didn't lose his head or allow himself to become overwhelmed with Diaz' youth, and strength, just kept methodically chipping away. It was an even fight at the time of the stoppage, but I was pretty sure Diaz was going to get stopped from pretty early on.

Robbi

03-01-2009, 12:51 AM

I couldn't really care if fighters from 60 years ago fought over 100 times. They weren't technically better than Marquez. Maybe Robinson was flashier and Pep was more innovative, but when it comes to sheer solid fundementals, Marquez deserves his placing among the elite. Punches over the top, underneath, round the side, and with either hand. He punches straight consistently.

He's one hell of an uppercuter.

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Right uppercut, followed immediatley by an overhand right. Lovely. Then goes to the body with both hands, then finishes off with a left uppercut up the middle.

I've also noticed that it doesn't matter to him what distance he throws uppercuts. Up close inside, mid-range, and even long range. Doesn't matter a jot to him.

Just a terrific fighter with nice variation.

WhataRock

03-01-2009, 12:51 AM

He looked excellent tonight and he has been one of my favourite fighters to watch for some time. Definitely a modern day great.

I to think he can hang with a lot of the greats from 126-135..though I wouldnt pick him to beat to many of the top tier in any of those divisions.

Robbi

03-01-2009, 01:04 AM

There is always the tendency for the old time fans to say, " Yeah, he's real good but dont compare with lightweights of years ago etc,". Well, I have now become one of the oldtimers (started following boxing in the early 50's) and this guy could compete with any of them. He's tough, smart, durable and puts his punches together beautifully. This guy is one of the greats period........

Looks like you let your eyes do the talking for you. Old Don Familton recently done an article stating that he thought Bernard Hopkins had the best fundementals of any fighter he'd seen since the post world war II era. He's seen them all in the gym and at ringside. Laguna, Bivins, Louis, Duran, Arguello, Johnson, etc. That certainly proves he's a man who doesn't let his youthful years come flooding back to distort his mind. It would be easy for him to say "today's fighters never done it like the old timers from the 40's and 50's".

rekcutnevets

03-01-2009, 01:06 AM

I was watching a different fight than the commentators, with the exception of Kellerman. Max was pointing out that Marquez was doing more than just hanging in there.

I thought Marquez won the 1st round, I had the fight even after 6, and had Marquez winning the last two before the stoppage.

Robbi

03-01-2009, 01:09 AM

Robbi

03-01-2009, 01:12 AM

He was great tonight, and even though Diaz was the aggressor and pushing the action, I felt that Marquez was pretty well in control most of the time.

Marquez looked at his most vulnerable on the ropes. But even when he was there he was firing back and was on even terms at least.

Maxmomer

03-01-2009, 01:33 AM

Marquez looked at his most vulnerable on the ropes. But even when he was there he was firing back and was on even terms at least.

I agree. I didn't say Diaz was more effective, just that he was the aggressor. Like rekcutnevets, I felt like the commentators didn't know what the fuck they were talking about. Marquez seemed in control to me and seemed to be doing exactly what he wanted to do. Even when he was against the ropes, where, like you say, he was firing back and also evading a lot of Diaz' punches. Diaz certainly made Marquez uncomfortable, and I had them about even in terms of rounds, but at no point after the second round did I feel like he was winning or was going to win the fight.

MAG1965

03-01-2009, 06:47 AM

A great comeback. He was helped tremendously by the cut on Diaz.

bladerunner

03-01-2009, 06:55 AM

the most skilled fighter in boxing today.

Rebel-INS

03-01-2009, 06:59 AM

Some of his punch technique was truly astonishing. He threw a left hook in the 8th round (middle I think) which was absolutely fantastic.
Also his composure to get the knockout was excellent.

natonic

03-01-2009, 07:24 AM

THis is basically a featherweight we're talking about who has moved up and is knocking out very good Lightweight champions (or past champions). There's really nothing to choose between him and Pac in two fights. Truly a great fighter. I could see him being in my top 100 (if I had one).
I picked Diaz. My hat is off to Marquez, a great fighter.

03-01-2009, 07:34 AM

Marquez is a true great, he is in a good division but time is not on his side, i hope he secures a couple of really big fights.

DINAMITA

03-01-2009, 07:55 AM

I think last night was the best win of JMM's career. It was clear early that Diaz, being the natural lightweight, was very strong, and I was a bit surprised at Diaz's accuracy when he flurried with JMM on the ropes. But that only reinforces what a brilliant brilliant win this was for JMM when you consider his composure, resilience, punch variety and power which allowed him to take control and triumph. His use of the uppercut was excellent, and the finish was perfect. Marquez is one of the very best of this era, a colossal fighter, and I cannot wait for the third fight with the Pacman which surely will happen at some point.

dpw417

03-01-2009, 08:48 AM

We were watching a great fighter last night. Great performance against a younger, bigger opponent.

BOGART

03-01-2009, 09:16 AM

Great performance from Marquez last night. He went into Diaz's turf and beat the much younger man. Diaz made it a tough fight but Marquez seemed to be in control for most of the match. Marquez is starting to get up there in age so he needs to get all the big fights he can. I'm not sure who he'll fight next but he is doing everything on his end to keep up the demand for another Pacquaio fight.

ChrisPontius

03-01-2009, 09:21 AM

A great comeback. He was helped tremendously by the cut on Diaz.

Which he inflicted himself by a punch.

I thought this was an amazing fight. Diaz is very solid technically, works extremely hard and makes you fight faster than you want to. Marquez weathered the early storm and took over from round 6 on and even got the stoppage. What a fighter!

shadow boxer

03-01-2009, 09:35 AM

Fantastic fighter and a fantastic performance. I'd it dead level going into the last round. While I didn't think JMM was ever in big trouble I did score rounds for Diaz based on his effective aggression. However you could see from early on that Marquez was beginning to find his rhythm. What impressed me most was how he adjusted to a pace that he would clearly prefer not to fight at. He was throwing more than he ever did before in any fight.

He also deserves huge credit for fighting Diaz in his hometown and being the first guy to ever knock him out.

GPater11093

03-01-2009, 10:03 AM

the 8th round was a boxing lesson and the knockout was brillaint they way he subtely moved his fett to get into position he was doing that all night

PowerPuncher

03-01-2009, 10:07 AM

GPater11093

03-01-2009, 10:22 AM

i liked Joh i had his score abit wide at 8 to john but it was never a draw

marquez has deterioted abit with age i noticed this at the start his reflexes arnt as sharp as i noticed he tried head movement alot in the 3rd and started getting hit abit as he didnt move as quick as he used too. Also i thought he was a bit slower at countering he took abit longer to throw the counter and let Diaz off a few times after making him miss. But his ability to adapt and his power are the best i have saw him at. also he never betrayed he was hurt once even with jelly legs at one point.

i thought his footwork was so balanced and poised he was never off balance. sound fundamentals and his left uppercut a thing of buaety

sweet_scientist

03-01-2009, 10:25 AM

Wonderful punching technique and countering but PISS POOR Defense. It was really a battle of who had the worse defense and Diaz won that prize

This 1 could be fight of the year but Marquez took needless punches in there, Diaz wasn't working Marquez over because of size, he was doing it because of speed, intensity and forward movement although his defense was ever worse. When Marquez started using laterial movement he could control the fight and time shots better, Diaz also shot his load a bit early

The commentators were off though, Marquez was doing better early than given credit for

Now Chris John really looked a throwback last night, very reminicent of Salvador Sanchez or Buchanon, just did everything so well

Agree with this. I was more impressed with Marquez's heart than anything else tonight. He took a LOT of shots and whilst he had some good technique on his punches he was lucky he was fighting a guy with no punch and no real mental strength (or defense as PP pointed out). Unraveled again when he got cut.

I think age is starting to catch up with Marquez, the level he has shown at lightweight isn't what it was at 126 and 130, and should he face a very good lightweight it will probably be his undoing. Luckily, there aren't any around at the moment by the looks of things, so he could carry out an ok reign at lightweight.

He should stay the HELL away from Mayweather though imo.

GPater11093

03-01-2009, 10:34 AM

just been in the general forum the amount of nut hugging is unbelieveable i see hes everyones P4P 1 now.

until Hatton-Pacman

Robbi

03-01-2009, 11:39 AM

Robbi

03-01-2009, 11:45 AM

I agree. I didn't say Diaz was more effective, just that he was the aggressor.

I never said thats what you said. I simply followed up on your post and gave my opinion that Marquez was being more vulnerable while on the ropes.

Quick Cash

03-01-2009, 11:48 AM

Two of my very favorite fighters squaring off in the ring in what must certainly be an early candidate for fight of the year.

Both fighters put up impressive volleys against each other, but I have to agree with Power Puncher here. Defense is neither fighter's strong suit. Marquez shows sound evasive tactics now and again when he bobs and weaves away from punches, but he carries his right hand in a way that will always make him susceptible to the left.

I lost some money betting on a distance fight with Juan Manuel winning by decision, but I'm not the least bit unhappy. What a fight! What a devastating knockout!

I hope Diaz can trudge on even after almost back-to-back losses. He is one of the most exciting fighters out there today and I believe he can achieve greatness if he can somehow pick up the pieces.

sweet_scientist

03-01-2009, 12:46 PM

Marquez isn't taking more punches at lightweight than he did at super-featherweight. Against Barrera and the Pacman rematch he was in wars as well. His defense has been like this since around 2006. He's becoming more flat-footed and throwing more power punches.

His defense was better against Barrera and in the Pac rematch than it was tonight against Juan and against a mummified Joel Casamayor for mine.

Robbi

03-01-2009, 12:48 PM

His defense was better against Barrera and in the Pac rematch than it was tonight against Juan and against a mummified Joel Casamayor for mine.

Around the same for me. :good

mr. magoo

03-01-2009, 01:24 PM

The best fight I've seen in many years. I don't follow the sport enough anymore to be able to say who's the best p4p, but I believe those who say that Marquez is a good candidate.

jyuza

03-02-2009, 03:39 AM

His defense was better against Barrera and in the Pac rematch than it was tonight against Juan and against a mummified Joel Casamayor for mine.

Definitely. I was shocked myself when the fight began. Marquez was taking too many shots than usual and I already thought he would lose the fight by decision coming into the third round. He struggled his way back into the fight to win by knock out but it cost him everything he got that night.
At this rate, I won't give him much of a chance against Manny for their inevitable third encounter but we will have to wait and see how Pacman does against the Hitman in a potential FOTY candidate fight .

PowerPuncher

03-02-2009, 05:25 AM

His defense was better against Barrera and in the Pac rematch than it was tonight against Juan and against a mummified Joel Casamayor for mine.

I'm not sure his defense was much different, its the style of a fast combination puncher throwing compact shots on the inside/mid range. Marquez is good at defending from jabs/straights at long range and slower paced fights, he just hasn't got a defense against a left hook on the inside

sweet_scientist

03-02-2009, 08:10 AM

I'm not sure his defense was much different, its the style of a fast combination puncher throwing compact shots on the inside/mid range. Marquez is good at defending from jabs/straights at long range and slower paced fights, he just hasn't got a defense against a left hook on the inside

Thought he got hit by plenty of jabs and straights against Juan. I was surprised how often Juan's jab got home. Had Juan actually made that the foundation of his arsenal he probably would have won the fight because it was landing flush pretty much whenever he decided to throw it, which in the end, wasn't enough times, because he deluded himself into thinking he was Meldrick Taylor with the all the flurrying he did in its stead, which on the whole wasn't that effective.

PowerPuncher

03-02-2009, 08:17 AM

Thought he got hit by plenty of jabs and straights against Juan. I was surprised how often Juan's jab got home. Had Juan actually made that the foundation of his arsenal he probably would have won the fight because it was landing flush pretty much whenever he decided to throw it, which in the end, wasn't enough times, because he deluded himself into thinking he was Meldrick Taylor with the all the flurrying he did in its stead, which on the whole wasn't that effective.

Which Juan :lol:

I must admit to getting confused by the commentators at times on this 1. I thought JMM was landing sneakier effective counters early to mid in a 50-50 back and forth fight, but they saw Diaz winning everything pretty much. It made me question 'are we seeing the same fight, am I wrong'.

Diaz's speed of hand and closing the gap, and his intensity was something else that impressed me. Allot on here are talking as if he was talentless B Class aren't really appreciating what he did in that ring and ignore his quality wins. JMM did well to fight at that pace and turn it on late but hes lucky Diaz didn't have A level power. I think Hatton stops JMM at 140, same style of fight but bigger stronger and harder hitting

frankwornank

03-02-2009, 05:41 PM

68 thanks.

frankwornank

03-02-2009, 06:26 PM

you'll be at least 60 then?
68

Rebel-INS

03-04-2009, 06:50 PM

Which Juan :lol:

I must admit to getting confused by the commentators at times on this 1. I thought JMM was landing sneakier effective counters early to mid in a 50-50 back and forth fight, but they saw Diaz winning everything pretty much. It made me question 'are we seeing the same fight, am I wrong'.

Diaz's speed of hand and closing the gap, and his intensity was something else that impressed me. Allot on here are talking as if he was talentless B Class aren't really appreciating what he did in that ring and ignore his quality wins. JMM did well to fight at that pace and turn it on late but hes lucky Diaz didn't have A level power. I think Hatton stops JMM at 140, same style of fight but bigger stronger and harder hitting

I just rewatched it and you're right, Diaz was throwing lots of punches without much landing.
The commentators were constantly going on about Diaz's work, but JMM was landing the far better punches.

Robbi

03-04-2009, 07:17 PM

I just rewatched it and you're right, Diaz was throwing lots of punches without much landing.
The commentators were constantly going on about Diaz's work, but JMM was landing the far better punches.

Agree. Considering the type of fight it was, Marquez was always going to get caught with some shots, as would any other world class fighter for that matter. However, he never took so many that his heart stood out over everything else in his performance. Apart from getting caught in the 2nd and being wobbled, his defense was pretty good. He wasn't taking clean punches on a regular basis throughout the fight. Pretty much decent defense taking into account he's not Pep or Locche.

menemsha43

03-07-2009, 10:06 AM

What a great fight. Marquez was impressive - his skill level is a sight to behold. I thought he won the last Pacquiao fight absent the knock down.

PowerPuncher

03-07-2009, 10:21 AM

Agree. Considering the type of fight it was, Marquez was always going to get caught with some shots, as would any other world class fighter for that matter. However, he never took so many that his heart stood out over everything else in his performance. Apart from getting caught in the 2nd and being wobbled, his defense was pretty good. He wasn't taking clean punches on a regular basis throughout the fight. Pretty much decent defense taking into account he's not Pep or Locche.

I think Diaz hurt Marquez a few times early, JMM just didn't have any defense against the left hook until he started moving more

Robbi

03-07-2009, 11:40 AM

I think Diaz hurt Marquez a few times early, JMM just didn't have any defense against the left hook until he started moving more

The only time I visibly seen Marquez hurt was when he was rocked and wobbled during the second round.

PowerPuncher

03-07-2009, 11:45 AM

The only time I visibly seen Marquez hurt was when he was rocked and wobbled during the second round.

Could of been that round, only watched it once, so may treat myself to another viewing off the V+ box, im off to eat burgers and watch the fight again

Robbi

03-07-2009, 11:46 AM

Could of been that round, only watched it once, so may treat myself to another viewing off the V+ box, im off to eat burgers and watch the fight again

Burger Boy, enjoy the fight. :good

divac

03-07-2009, 07:40 PM

I just rewatched it and you're right, Diaz was throwing lots of punches without much landing.
The commentators were constantly going on about Diaz's work, but JMM was landing the far better punches.

Exactly......I've rewatched this fight twice already just to examine JMM's defense and how much Diaz was really being effective in those early rounds.....

.....an though Diaz landed some good shots with his hook, must of the two fisted flurries that Diaz was throwing was not being as effective at the HBO commentating crew would have the audience believe.
.....alot of those shots were either glancing, were being slipped, ducked, and or blocked.....
....while JMM's counters were getting in just as frequently and with better precision and authority.

There's a few in this thread discrediting JMM's defense for being worst off than normal for him.....I dont agree for the points I've already made......but I'd also like to add, and I dont know how many of you noticed......but being that the fight was in Diaz hometown.....I noticed that the ring was set up as small as it could be to accomodate both Diaz and Juarez who fought on the undercard against Chris John......

Personally being a JMM fan, I would have liked for JMM to have used a little bit more movenment and not be backed against the ropes as much as he was....

......but the small ringsize I believe made it very difficult for JMM to move laterally at an angle wider that needed to be in order to avoid Diaz backing him up to those ropes.....

.....so if you take into account the small ringsize....JMM's performance becomes even more impressive, in that he was able to adjust his game plan to suit ring conditions and deal with a fighter who style was perfectly suited to the size of that ring......
......I'd like to hear some thoughts from some of you on the matter of the ring size......did any of you notice it?

Robbi

03-07-2009, 08:14 PM

Exactly......I've rewatched this fight twice already just to examine JMM's defense and how much Diaz was really being effective in those early rounds.....

.....an though Diaz landed some good shots with his hook, must of the two fisted flurries that Diaz was throwing was not being as effective at the HBO commentating crew would have the audience believe.
.....alot of those shots were either glancing, were being slipped, ducked, and or blocked.....
....while JMM's counters were getting in just as frequently and with better precision and authority.

There's a few in this thread discrediting JMM's defense for being worst off than normal for him.....I dont agree for the points I've already made......but I'd also like to add, and I dont know how many of you noticed......but being that the fight was in Diaz hometown.....I noticed that the ring was set up as small as it could be to accomodate both Diaz and Juarez who fought on the undercard against Chris John......

Personally being a JMM fan, I would have liked for JMM to have used a little bit more movenment and not be backed against the ropes as much as he was....

......but the small ringsize I believe made it very difficult for JMM to move laterally at an angle wider that needed to be in order to avoid Diaz backing him up to those ropes.....

.....so if you take into account the small ringsize....JMM's performance becomes even more impressive, in that he was able to adjust his game plan to suit ring conditions and deal with a fighter who style was perfectly suited to the size of that ring......
......I'd like to hear some thoughts from some of you on the matter of the ring size......did any of you notice it?

Divac. I did notice the ring size, especially from the corner post, the standing height view camera. The ring must have been around 18ft or thereabouts. I actually clocked this at the time of the fight, but your post just brought my initial thought flooding back.

Marquez's defense was decent considering the type of fight he was involved in. What other world class fighter would be able to stand his ground often and not get clipped ocassionally in a fierce battle? Hardly any at all. Fighters like Barrera, Arguello, Pryor, Morales, etc, wouldn't have showed better defense. Certainly not vastly anyway. SS said Marquez's heart impressed him the most. I can say without question, Marquez wasn't taking flush punches round after round for his heart to be truly tested. At no point in the bout could anyone say to themselves "how is Marquez staying on his feet with these punches, he can't stay up for much longer". He was briefly wobbled with a left hook during the second round, but apart from that his defense was pretty much standard procedure for the type of fight he and Diaz fought.

divac

03-07-2009, 08:23 PM

Divac. I did notice the ring size, especially from the corner post, the standing height view camera. The ring must have been around 18ft or thereabouts. I actually clocked this at the time of the fight, but your post just brought my initial thought flooding back.

Marquez's defense was decent considering the type of fight he was involved in. What other world class fighter would be able to stand his ground often and not get clipped ocassionally in a fierce battle? Hardly any at all. Fighters like Barrera, Arguello, Pryor, Morales, etc, wouldn't have showed better defense. Certainly not vastly anyway. SS said Marquez's heart impressed him the most. I can say without question, Marquez wasn't taking flush punches round after round for his heart to be truly tested. At no point in the bout could anyone say to themselves "how is Marquez staying on his feet with these punches, he can't stay up for much longer". He was briefly wobbled with a left hook during the second round, but apart from that his defense was pretty much standard procedure for the type of fight he and Diaz fought.:good

I noticed the ringsize at the very first round of the Juarez-John fight.......

.....when John who's a slick boxer could'nt avoid getting cornered by a slow plodding Juarez.....I said to myself, "this JMM-Diaz fight is going to be more interesting that I initially thought it would."