Barrera - His Highest Possible Ranking?

[Russell]

Can he be placed in a top 50 ATG list? Top 30? Where does he fit in your view.

What if he had been given the decision against the P4P #1 or 2 in the world right now in JMM?

[WhataRock]

He be higher but not by heaps..Id probably have him top100 or just outside..Wouldnt be any higher than 80-85 at this stage IMO.

With a win over JMM he would probably sit in that 80-90 range in my list. I could understand a bit higher.

Just my opinion of him but I think the losses he had throughout his career prevented a good run of dominance and I also dont rate him as highly H2H as a lot of people do. Though dont get me wrong, he still rates very well.

[Addie]

Can he be placed in a top 50 ATG list? Top 30? Where does he fit in your view.

What if he had been given the decision against the P4P #1 or 2 in the world right now in JMM?

I don't have a definitive top 100 p4p list, I don't think they hold much weight but I would place Barrera around 60-70. It's not just his top wins and ability as a fighter that places him so high, but longevity. He looked down and out on so many occasions, but kept coming back and performing better than everybody expected him too. Even in losing efforts. A truly great fighter, who has had a career that spanned two decades. Demands universal respect.

A win over Marquez would have lifted him in top 50 places considering what Juan has gone on to achieve lately.

[sweet_scientist]

If you think he beat Morales all 3 times and beat Marquez you could have him quite high. (I had his series even with Morales and had him losing a close one against JMM).

As of right now he is just outside my top 100.

[Russell]

If you think he beat Morales all 3 times and beat Marquez you could have him quite high. (I had his series even with Morales and had him losing a close one against JMM).

As of right now he is just outside my top 100.

How did you score each fight?

Which one was a draw?

[sweet_scientist]

How did you score each fight?

Which one was a draw?

You wouldn't believe it but I had all 3 fights even!

Erik Morales vs. Marco Antonio Barrera I: 115-115 Draw
I gave Morales rounds 3,5,7,9 and 10. I gave Barrera rounds 2,4,8,11 and 12. I had rounds 1 and 6 even.



Erik Morales vs. Marco Antonio Barrera III: 115-115 Draw
I gave Morales rounds 2,4,7,8 and 12. I gave Barrera rounds 1,3,6,9 and 10. I had rounds 5 and 11 even.


Can't find my scorecard for their second fight, but I had that scored even as well. One day I'll score the fights again, I'm not happy with such dire fence sitting.

[Russell]

That's surreal, but the fights were that close.

[asero]

he is not even top 15 in the last 25 years

[sweet_scientist]

You wouldn't believe it but I had all 3 fights even!

Erik Morales vs. Marco Antonio Barrera I: 115-115 Draw
I gave Morales rounds 3,5,7,9 and 10. I gave Barrera rounds 2,4,8,11 and 12. I had rounds 1 and 6 even.



Erik Morales vs. Marco Antonio Barrera III: 115-115 Draw
I gave Morales rounds 2,4,7,8 and 12. I gave Barrera rounds 1,3,6,9 and 10. I had rounds 5 and 11 even.


Can't find my scorecard for their second fight, but I had that scored even as well. One day I'll score the fights again, I'm not happy with such dire fence sitting.

Found it:

Erik Morales vs. Marco Antonio Barrera II: 115-115 Draw
I gave Morales rounds 4,5,7,8 and 10. I gave Barrera rounds 1,2,6,9 and 12. I had rounds 3 and 11 even.

[asero]

^^^too many even rounds

36 rounds with 3 judges...108 possible scores yet only there is only one even round..the controversial judge scoring even, the round (10 or 11) morales cleary won

avoid scoring even rounds..that is not the usual practice in championship bouts

[sweet_scientist]

^^^too many even rounds

36 rounds with 3 judges...108 possible scores yet only there is only one even round..the controversial judge scoring even, the round (10 or 11) morales cleary won

avoid scoring even rounds..that is not the usual practice in championship bouts

Some judges like giving even rounds, some don't. Me personally, if I see an even round, I'm calling it an even round. If every round in the fight is even I will score it 120-120. Just the way I operate. I don't arbitrarily give rounds or split hairs. Maybe there are too many even rounds in my MAB-EM scorecards and maybe I wold change scores on different viewings, but it's how i saw it when I watched it.

[PowerPuncher]

I rate MAB no1 at 122 and around mid-30s all time, which is very high, but deservedly so

Great wins and reign at 122 - which I'd incluce Mckinney and Morales (robbed), Perhaps the best ever win at 126 against Hamed, which was massive, very good reign at 126, great final win over Morales in an unnatural weight class past his prime, 1 of the best fights and trilogy of all time, has a good case to beating JMM way past his prime and held his own in the Pac rematch been cuter than Pac early on. Has been fighting champship fights against the elite from '94-'97 and gone from 115-130

MAB got some unlucky decisions/robberies go against him. MAB should have 3 decisions over Morales, he completely dominated him in the first, complete robbery, it wasn't close, 2nd and 3rd were close but MAB won both. He should have the decision over JMM for my money, but that was close. I watched the Junior Jones 2 fight once and thought it could have gone either way. On top of that MAB hasn't benefited from close fight decisions himself.

[asero]

Some judges like giving even rounds, some don't. Me personally, if I see an even round, I'm calling it an even round. If every round in the fight is even I will score it 120-120. Just the way I operate. I don't arbitrarily give rounds or split hairs. Maybe there are too many even rounds in my MAB-EM scorecards and maybe I wold change scores on different viewings, but it's how i saw it when I watched it.


i too have no problem with giving even rounds..but in reality you rarely see an even round..of the three fights between MAB and EM, only once have we seen an even round (controversial at that)..judges refrain from giving even rounds, that is just the way boxing operates nowadays...you rarely see judges giving even rounds...i can only think of holyfield-valuev...can you think of other fights with even rounds...

that is why even rounds are most likely given by judges to the favored fighter or to the hometown guy

[sweet_scientist]

I rate MAB no1 at 122 and around mid-30s all time, which is very high, but deservedly so

Great wins and reign at 122 - which I'd incluce Mckinney and Morales (robbed), Perhaps the best ever win at 126 against Hamed, which was massive, very good reign at 126, great final win over Morales in an unnatural weight class past his prime, 1 of the best fights and trilogy of all time, has a good case to beating JMM way past his prime and held his own in the Pac rematch been cuter than Pac early on. Has been fighting champship fights against the elite from '94-'97 and gone from 115-130

MAB got some unlucky decisions/robberies go against him. MAB should have 3 decisions over Morales, he completely dominated him in the first, complete robbery, it wasn't close, 2nd and 3rd were close but MAB won both. He should have the decision over JMM for my money, but that was close. I watched the Junior Jones 2 fight once and thought it could have gone either way. On top of that MAB hasn't benefited from close fight decisions himself.

Some of the Morales fights could have gone against MAB and he could have lost the first Rocky Juarez fight too. He has not been hard done by in his career. Broken off about even I'd say as far as fair decisions go.

[PowerPuncher]

Some of the Morales fights could have gone against MAB and he could have lost the first Rocky Juarez fight too. He has not been hard done by in his career. Broken off about even I'd say as far as fair decisions go.

You have to be nuts to give any of those fights to Morales, the first 1 was a flat out robbery, Morales got battered to the ropes time and again, MABs punches had far more effect, landed far cleaner and walked through Morales shots. Morales was even floored, and that was a legit kd

The second fight was closist but you can't give MAB less than 6, 3rd fight was a very clear 7-5 or 8-4, no one saw the 3rd fight as controversal

MAB won more rounds than Juarez from cleaner more accurate punching but it was close.

The judges for MAB-JMM were clearly bought off, Golden Boy wanted JMM-Pac 2 as they thought JMM had Pacs number and bought and paid for the cards. It was a close close fight that I had to MAB, the cards were ultra wide, pure corruption, right there.

[sweet_scientist]

You have to be nuts to give any of those fights to Morales

Given this line right here, I'm not going to go further into a debate with you on this issue.

I'll let everyone else decide who's nuts. By everyone I mean the 90% of boxing fans who probably disagree with you.

[Minotauro]

I rate MAB no1 at 122 and around mid-30s all time, which is very high, but deservedly so

Great wins and reign at 122 - which I'd incluce Mckinney and Morales (robbed), Perhaps the best ever win at 126 against Hamed, which was massive, very good reign at 126, great final win over Morales in an unnatural weight class past his prime, 1 of the best fights and trilogy of all time, has a good case to beating JMM way past his prime and held his own in the Pac rematch been cuter than Pac early on. Has been fighting champship fights against the elite from '94-'97 and gone from 115-130

MAB got some unlucky decisions/robberies go against him. MAB should have 3 decisions over Morales, he completely dominated him in the first, complete robbery, it wasn't close, 2nd and 3rd were close but MAB won both. He should have the decision over JMM for my money, but that was close. I watched the Junior Jones 2 fight once and thought it could have gone either way. On top of that MAB hasn't benefited from close fight decisions himself.

You have him ahead of Gomez at 122lbs even though Wilfredo beat better fighters, was undefeated and looked better. And Pep's win over Saddler is far better the Barrera's over Hamed and I'm a fan of Marco.

[DINAMITA]

I have him around 85, but I wouldn't argue with someone having him around 70th. By contemporary standards, his resume is truly excellent IMO.

[PowerPuncher]

You have him ahead of Gomez at 122lbs even though Wilfredo beat better fighters, was undefeated and looked better. And Pep's win over Saddler is far better the Barrera's over Hamed and I'm a fan of Marco.

Barrera has much more skill and variety than Gomez. I think Barrera also has the better wins and would school Gomez head 2 head, Gomez also lost against the best he faced MAb did not

Barrera's victory over Hamed came when Hamed had unified all the FW belts over 6years and cleared out FW and was considered top5 P4P. To move up a division and technically disect Hamed who seemed unbeatable at the weight was massive. Pepp and Sadler are both great but Sadler lost twice in the 2years before Pep beat him, I don't think the win is of the same magnitude as MAB's win

[Addie]

You have to be nuts to give any of those fights to Morales, the first 1 was a flat out robbery, Morales got battered to the ropes time and again, MABs punches had far more effect, landed far cleaner and walked through Morales shots. Morales was even floored, and that was a legit kd

The second fight was closist but you can't give MAB less than 6, 3rd fight was a very clear 7-5 or 8-4, no one saw the 3rd fight as controversal

MAB won more rounds than Juarez from cleaner more accurate punching but it was close.

The judges for MAB-JMM were clearly bought off, Golden Boy wanted JMM-Pac 2 as they thought JMM had Pacs number and bought and paid for the cards. It was a close close fight that I had to MAB, the cards were ultra wide, pure corruption, right there.

I agree with a lot of what you have said. I felt Barrera was hard done by in the first Morales fight, and I feel he has a genuine case for the Juniors Jones rematch. Likewise, the judges for Marquez were undoubtedly corrupt. There is not even an arguement. All of the undercard fights - Forbes/Hopkins, Penalosa/Ponce De Leon were all ridiculously scored. To the point where an investigation should have been implemented.

That said, I had the 2nd Morales fight a draw, and MAB's wins at 122 just don't compare to the likes of Gomez.

[Flea Man]

Well, for one thing PowerPuncher, Wilfredo Gomez is the no.1 122 lb fighter of all time, not Barrera.

I may be in the minority but I have Barrera at about no.55 (If I remember correctly) Very good resume, good H2H, exciting as well, the win over Naseem Hamed is amongst the greatest of the last decade (people forget what a destroyer Hamed was when Barrera fought him. Faded or not, and in my opinion he definitely was, he's one of the hardest hitters of all time and had a nightmare style to deal with, Barrera tamed him easy, and even though Naz's skills and reflexes had diminished, his finishing was still amongst the best in the sport and he was most probably the hardest hitter P4P at that time)

[Flea Man]

Barrera has much more skill and variety than Gomez. I think Barrera also has the better wins and would school Gomez head 2 head, Gomez also lost against the best he faced MAb did not

Barrera's victory over Hamed came when Hamed had unified all the FW belts over 6years and cleared out FW and was considered top5 P4P. To move up a division and technically disect Hamed who seemed unbeatable at the weight was massive. Pepp and Sadler are both great but Sadler lost twice in the 2years before Pep beat him, I don't think the win is of the same magnitude as MAB's win

:patsch So much wrong with this part I don't know where to start.

Gomez's win over Zarate was exactly the same except for one thing; Barrera was moving up (and continues to do so) and beat the bigger guy, Gomez beat the guy coming up, a guy that was notiously big for a Bantamweight, and was, at the time 54-0 (53)

Zarate was a superior fighter to Hamed in many ways and just as feared a puncher when he met the younger, less experienced Gomez, who destroyed Zarate, barely allowing Zarate to get his punches off before dropping him, over and over, embarrasing him.

Post Sal Sanchez (no shame in losing to Sanchez at the higher weight) Gomez relied more on the punch rather than boxing into it. Lupe Pintor was a fantastic win also, easily as good a win as any of Barrera's win except Hamed (which the Zarate win surpasses IMO)

Barrera did not lose against the best he faced? No you're right he didn't, he also lost to Junior Jones. He lost to Pac who was one of the best he faced, and regardless of what you think of the 1st fight he also lost to Morales (at least once) one of the best he faced.

Sure, Gomez lost to Nelson and was given a gift against Lockridge. But to say Barrera had a better skillset (Gomez's footwork alone in his Prime surpasses anything Barrera has) and say that Barrera would school him H2H (at 122 at that, a weight where Gomez never lost and beat one of the top 3 ATG Bantamweights and never won a fight that wasn't by K.O, against some admittedly shady opposition at times but look through Barrera's career and you will find guys with similar awful records too) and Gomez was not a very tall guy, boxed beautifully when he wanted too, and I'm sure most people would agree, is one of the top 10 all-round punchers (accuracy, speed, punch choice, power) of all time, a two-fisted K.O artist.

Barrera would do better than many against Gomez. But he would not beat him. And he would NOT school him.


And before you call me a hater, I just praised Barrera up in the post before. I have Gomez five or six places higher than Barrera, that's all.

[Flea Man]

And PowerPuncher, by all means, post your response on how/why Barrera would 'school' Gomez at SBW. I'd love to see how you see the fight panning out to be honest, because anything other than a K.O Gomez's way is basically unfeasible.

[stevebhoy87]

Barrera has much more skill and variety than Gomez. I think Barrera also has the better wins and would school Gomez head 2 head, Gomez also lost against the best he faced MAb did not

Barrera's victory over Hamed came when Hamed had unified all the FW belts over 6years and cleared out FW and was considered top5 P4P. To move up a division and technically disect Hamed who seemed unbeatable at the weight was massive. Pepp and Sadler are both great but Sadler lost twice in the 2years before Pep beat him, I don't think the win is of the same magnitude as MAB's win

Are you serious, gomez pre sanchez at 122 was one of the most complete fighters i've ever seen, he was better than barrera, pretty clearly so in my eyes

[Robbi]

Given this line right here, I'm not going to go further into a debate with you on this issue.

I'll let everyone else decide who's nuts. By everyone I mean the 90% of boxing fans who probably disagree with you.

To be fair, about 90% of boxing fans thought Barrera beat Morales the first fight. If you combine defense with solid clean punching and overall better work, Barrera was consistently getting the better of Morales throughout the fight. Even Hamed faced Barrera on the basis that he believed he was fighting the real winner. The commentators over here were stunned when calling the fight. Even one of them remarked that Lou DiBella was shaking his head in disbelief right after the scores were announced. And he wasn't a promoter at the time who was tied to either fighter.

I'm actually glad you aren't giving yourself a serious blusher by calling the fight for Morales. You always make the case for Whitaker-Chavez being as far away from a draw as the Earth is from Pluto. Now you know how others feel towards your scores.

Hopkins-Wright, a draw. Who else had that a draw? Nobody I can think of apart from yourself. Don't come back with punch stats, they mean zero. They are done with the press of a button when someone thinks a punch a lands. The impact of those punches aren't measured and it's not an accurate system. Many punches that are parcially blocked or even hit gloves will be counted considering the speed of some punches when the human eye is judging it.

[Flea Man]

Are you serious, gomez pre sanchez at 122 was one of the most complete fighters i've ever seen, he was better than barrera, pretty clearly so in my eyes

:good:good:good

[WhataRock]

Barerra would school Gomez? :lol:

Me thinks PP has only seen Gomez against Sanchez and Pintor, or whatever other little film there is of him on youtube.
Dont worry I was in the same boat, but Gomez was just about the best 122 pounder I have ever seen in his early career. You really have to see him against Kobayishi, Zarate and Perez to name a few, to see how good he was.
Better than Barerra, Better then Morales..oh and better than Junior Jones.

[sweet_scientist]

To be fair, about 90% of boxing fans thought Barrera beat Morales the first fight. If you combine defense with solid clean punching and overall better work, Barrera was consistently getting the better of Morales throughout the fight. Even Hamed faced Barrera on the basis that he believed he was fighting the real winner. The commentators over here were stunned when calling the fight. Even one of them remarked that Lou DiBella was shaking his head in disbelief right after the scores were announced. And he wasn't a promoter at the time who was tied to either fighter.

I'm actually glad you aren't giving yourself a serious blusher by calling the fight for Morales. You always make the case for Whitaker-Chavez being as far away from a draw as the Earth is from Pluto. Now you know how others feel towards your scores.

So are you trying to say Robbi that Morales-Barrera I was a robbery of Whitaker-Chavez proportions?

If you are, let me tell you, that that is utter rubbish. 90% of people might have thought Barrera won, but 90% also would admit that the fight was damn close.

The biggest dilemma in the Barrera-Morales fight is trying to figure out what is more important, clean, consistent connects which don't seem to really effect a fighter, or sporadic clean effects which knock the other fighter off balance and maybe even hurt him. That was the tale of the fight.

Morales would land consistently throughout a round but Barrera would sting him occasionally with shots that appeared to have more effect. Personally, I found it hard to decide in that instance who to give the round to. It wasn't that Morales wasn't landing clean shots or anything, it's simply that Barrera took them well and Morales wasn't taking what Barrera threw as well.

It's obvious that a lot of people think well Barrera was hurting him, Barrera was winning the rounds, simple as that. Ok, maybe, but I think a lot of the times Morales was being knocked off balance he wasn't really hurt, which kind of makes things more complex.

Either way, I think it's nuts to suggest that anyone that has any of the three fights scored for Morales is nuts. And that's what I'm primarily reacting to in PP's post.

Hopkins-Wright, a draw. Who else had that a draw? Nobody I can think of apart from yourself. Don't come back with punch stats, they mean zero. They are done with the press of a button when someone thinks a punch a lands. The impact of those punches aren't measured and it's not an accurate system. Many punches that are parcially blocked or even hit gloves will be counted considering the speed of some punches when the human eye is judging it.

Again, most had Hopkins winning, fair enough, but nearly everyone had that fight close. On the telecast on Setanta I was watching, Jim Watt had Hopkins by a point or two, but said the fight was that close he wouldn't begrudge Winky the win if he got it. He's usually a good judge of fights.

I haven't researched who said what about the fight, but I just googled 'Winky Wright Bernard Hopkins draw' and saw that the New York Post had it a draw. So I'm not totally alone :D

[Flea Man]

well i didn't get a response from PowerPuncher, guess he decided to actually watch some Gomez fights and realised how wrong he was :rofl

[trampie]

Some judges like giving even rounds, some don't. Me personally, if I see an even round, I'm calling it an even round. If every round in the fight is even I will score it 120-120. Just the way I operate. I don't arbitrarily give rounds or split hairs. Maybe there are too many even rounds in my MAB-EM scorecards and maybe I wold change scores on different viewings, but it's how i saw it when I watched it.

I score boxing bouts in a similar manner, after Lewis v Holyfield 1 fight, i mentioned how i had scored the fight in work and a work mate that i had never 'talked boxing' too in my life, pulled a piece of paper out of his pocket scoring ever round identical to me, every single one round the same.
I too will score a close round as even, although boxing is scored round by round, if a judge scores fairly even rounds for one boxer or another, you are more likely to get a bad verdict ? for example, in a 'spliting hairs' judges verdict, may score 7 very close rounds to boxer A {where as i would have scored all 7 even} and 5 very clear rounds to boxer B.

Boxer B would have dominated the fight as a whole, Boxer B won 5 clear rounds and had 7 very close rounds, Boxer A won no clear rounds at all.
I may have scored such a fight as Boxer A 115 Boxer B 120, a 'splitting hairs' judge may have scored the Fight Boxer A 115 Boxer B 113, and we end up with a very poor decision, lots of people dont know how to score a fight, including some judges !

[Addie]

Barerra would school Gomez? :lol:

Me thinks PP has only seen Gomez against Sanchez and Pintor, or whatever other little film there is of him on youtube.
Dont worry I was in the same boat, but Gomez was just about the best 122 pounder I have ever seen in his early career. You really have to see him against Kobayishi, Zarate and Perez to name a few, to see how good he was.
Better than Barerra, Better then Morales..oh and better than Junior Jones.

I think Morales would beat Gomez at 122. :good

[Mantequilla]

Morales is an unskilled labourer compared to Wilfredo.;)

[DINAMITA]

I genuinely believe Gomez would stop Morales in rather brutal fashion - and I'm a Morales fan.

[Addie]

I genuinely believe Gomez would stop Morales in rather brutal fashion - and I'm a Morales fan.

:lol: I'm sorry, but let's forget nostalgia and get back to reality. Morales isn't getting stopped by anybody at 122lb. Not even by the great Wilfredo Gomez.

[Minotauro]

Barrera has much more skill and variety than Gomez. I think Barrera also has the better wins and would school Gomez head 2 head, Gomez also lost against the best he faced MAb did not

Barrera's victory over Hamed came when Hamed had unified all the FW belts over 6years and cleared out FW and was considered top5 P4P. To move up a division and technically disect Hamed who seemed unbeatable at the weight was massive. Pepp and Sadler are both great but Sadler lost twice in the 2years before Pep beat him, I don't think the win is of the same magnitude as MAB's win

Gomez would give Barrera a lesson he was the better boxer, better defence, footwork, finisher, quicker and had much more power. Barrera and Morales would both lose to Gomez probably via stoppage at 122 at the higher weights their chances would increase.

A win over a prime Saddler is 10x better Sandy is a top 20 p4p fighter and probably second greatest featherweight. Saddler was in his prime as well and a very difficult style for Pep who was past his best that is one of the biggest wins period much greater then a win over Hamed. (Not to take anything away from Barrera as it is still a big win but ain't got much on Pep's over Saddler.)

[Addie]

Gomez would give Barrera a lesson he was the better boxer, better defence, footwork, finisher, quicker and had much more power. Barrera and Morales would both lose to Gomez probably via stoppage at 122 at the higher weights their chances would increase.

A win over a prime Saddler is 10x better Sandy is a top 20 p4p fighter and probably second greatest featherweight. Saddler was in his prime as well and a very difficult style for Pep who was past his best that is one of the biggest wins period much greater then a win over Hamed. (Not to take anything away from Barrera as it is still a big win but ain't got much on Pep's over Saddler.)

Gomez would not be giving out a boxing lesson to Marco at 122lb. I think Barrera had better handspeed that Wilfero at his peak, and his combination punching and variety in his offensive arsenal had more range. I think it's important to realise that Marco was also a world class fighter, as was Wilfredo who just had more power. In my estimation, if Marco had the power of a Gomez, he'd have been crowned the greatest 122lb fighter of all time. Marco was a complete fighter, but he didn't have concussive KO power like Gomez.

I would pick Gomez to probably stop Marco at 122lb, but I don't see him stopping or even beating the more dynamic Morales.

[DINAMITA]

:lol: I'm sorry, but let's forget nostalgia and get back to reality. Morales isn't getting stopped by anybody at 122lb. Not even by the great Wilfredo Gomez.

Such immaturity. Even if you don't believe Gomez could stop Morales, it very obviously is not such a laughable belief to justify a hilarious smiley. On any given night, Wilfredo Gomez could knock out ANYONE who ever fought at 122. Of course he could, he is one of the hardest hitters p4p in history. Bob Foster at 175, Gomez at 122, Ketchel at 160, etc etc - these guys had dynamite in their hands, they could KO anyone their size if they catch them with the right punch. Given how fast, furious and frenetic a Gomez v Morales fight would be, I feel pretty sure that Gomez would catch Morales with the right punch at one point, and even if someone with a chin like Morales did not crumple from a single shot (though Morales's chin is not as good as it is made out to be - see Morales v Barrera I for evidence, then compare Barrera's power to that of Gomez), he would be badly hurt by Gomez and Gomez was a superb finisher. Demean this reasoning all you want with idiotic smiley-faces, but many learned fans would agree with this opinion.

[Addie]

Such immaturity. Even if you don't believe Gomez could stop Morales, it very obviously is not such a laughable belief to justify a hilarious smiley. On any given night, Wilfredo Gomez could knock out ANYONE who ever fought at 122. Of course he could, he is one of the hardest hitters p4p in history. Bob Foster at 175, Gomez at 122, Ketchel at 160, etc etc - these guys had dynamite in their hands, they could KO anyone their size if they catch them with the right punch. Given how fast, furious and frenetic a Gomez v Morales fight would be, I feel pretty sure that Gomez would catch Morales with the right punch at one point, and even if someone with a chin like Morales did not crumple from a single shot (though Morales's chin is not as good as it is made out to be - see Morales v Barrera I for evidence, then compare Barrera's power to that of Gomez), he would be badly hurt by Gomez and Gomez was a superb finisher. Demean this reasoning all you want with idiotic smiley-faces, but many learned fans would agree with this opinion.

I stopped reading after "such immaturity". Rephrase your response without resorting to your usual bullshit DINAMITA, and I shall happily read what you have to say.

[Minotauro]

Gomez would not be giving out a boxing lesson to Marco at 122lb. I think Barrera had better handspeed that Wilfero at his peak, and his combination punching and variety in his offensive arsenal had more range. I think it's important to realise that Marco was also a world class fighter, as was Wilfredo who just had more power. In my estimation, if Marco had the power of a Gomez, he'd have been crowned the greatest 122lb fighter of all time. Marco was a complete fighter, but he didn't have concussive KO power like Gomez.

I would pick Gomez to probably stop Marco at 122lb, but I don't see him stopping or even beating the more dynamic Morales.

No way did Barrera have more variety or better combination then Gomez and Wilfredo had a better offensive arsenal very few fighters can match Wilfredo in terms of combination or arsenal. He is up there with the very elite in those catergories like Arguello, Louis, Moore and Robinson. Watch some more prime Gomez at 122 as great as Marco is he has very little over Gomez.

Wilfredo didn't just have more power he set them up better and was a better finisher he was one of the most complete fights I've ever seen at his best.

[Addie]

No way did Barrera have more variety or better combination then Gomez and Wilfredo had a better offensive arsenal very few fighters can match Wilfredo in terms of combination or arsenal. He is up there with the very elite in those catergories like Arguello, Louis, Moore and Robinson. Watch some more prime Gomez at 122 as great as Marco is he has very little over Gomez.

Wilfredo didn't just have more power he set them up better and was a better finisher he was one of the most complete fights I've ever seen at his best.

Show me video evidence displaying Gomez's offensive variety.

[Addie]

You wouldn't believe it but I had all 3 fights even!

Erik Morales vs. Marco Antonio Barrera I: 115-115 Draw
I gave Morales rounds 3,5,7,9 and 10. I gave Barrera rounds 2,4,8,11 and 12. I had rounds 1 and 6 even.



Erik Morales vs. Marco Antonio Barrera III: 115-115 Draw
I gave Morales rounds 2,4,7,8 and 12. I gave Barrera rounds 1,3,6,9 and 10. I had rounds 5 and 11 even.


Can't find my scorecard for their second fight, but I had that scored even as well. One day I'll score the fights again, I'm not happy with such dire fence sitting.

I don't see how anybody could have gave Morales round 9. He was hurt on 3 different occasions in that round.

[Minotauro]

Show me video evidence displaying Gomez's offensive variety.

watch his fight with Zarate for starters

[DINAMITA]

I stopped reading after "such immaturity". Rephrase your response without resorting to your usual bullshit DINAMITA, and I shall happily read what you have to say.

Nah. Remove your childish smileys and your trademark arrogant dismissive tone from the message I was replying to, and I will happily enlighten you. One of these days you are going to grow up hopefully.

[stevebhoy87]

Show me video evidence displaying Gomez's offensive variety.

Here's a little footage og gomez at his best, against carlos zarate and juan antonio lopez (footage quality's a bit poor i'm afraid), at least highlights how varied a fighter gomez was at his best

-3m9aeWLFdo

ROLXixo_m9M&feature=related

[Addie]

Nah. Remove your childish smileys and your trademark arrogant dismissive tone from the message I was replying to, and I will happily enlighten you. One of these days you are going to grow up hopefully.

I love how you highlighted that. It also applies to the majority of your input at Eastside Boxing. I guess I learn from some fairly influential and knowledgeable individuals.

[DINAMITA]

I love how you highlighted that. It also applies to the majority of your input at Eastside Boxing. I guess I learn from some fairly influential and knowledgeable individuals.

If you don't understand how that phrase applies to you or how that reply you posted to my opinion is well out of order, there's just no hope for you, you're just a rude little arsehole.

[Addie]

If you don't understand how that phrase applies to you or how that reply you posted to my opinion is well out of order, there's just no hope for you, you're just a rude little arsehole.

:lol: more vintage DINAMITA, who I swear is a really sensitive old lady posing as a veteran boxing fan. You're reminiscent of Sweet Pea and Robbi. Two very knowledgeable posters who take themselves just a little too seriously. I swear on my life, I will never ever use an emoticon to start my post again. It clearly upsets you. Let's put your ego to one side for a minute.

Considering Morales had never looked like being stopped at 122, or anytime during his prime, how come Gomez brutally stops him?

[Minotauro]

Watch this Gomez highlight its off his career from Zarate onwards.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Addie]

Watch this Gomez highlight its off his career from Zarate onwards.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I saw no evidence in that 9 minutes of Gomez being a better combination puncher than Barrera.

[Minotauro]

I saw no evidence in that 9 minutes of Gomez being a better combination puncher than Barrera.

If you really think that Barrera is a better combination puncher then Gomez then I'm sorry but you are a lost cause. Gomez is one of the greatest punchers ever and not just power but everything accuracy, variety, inside, outside, hooks, uppercuts everything with perfection and power. Seems you don't appreciate Wilfredo's greatness if you did you would realize he is a much better combination puncher then Marco.

[Addie]

If you really think that Barrera is a better combination puncher then Gomez then I'm sorry but you are a lost cause. Gomez is one of the greatest punchers ever and not just power but everything accuracy, variety, inside, outside, hooks, uppercuts everything with perfection and power. Seems you don't appreciate Wilfredo's greatness if you did you would realize he is a much better combination puncher then Marco.


:roll:Okayy...but I didn't see any of it in that video. I have no problem seeing Gomez being a better combination puncher, or even a "good" one..but I didn't see it. I saw single shots.

[DINAMITA]

:lol: more vintage DINAMITA, who I swear is a really sensitive old lady posing as a veteran boxing fan. You're reminiscent of Sweet Pea and Robbi. Two very knowledgeable posters who take themselves just a little too seriously. I swear on my life, I will never ever use an emoticon to start my post again. It clearly upsets you. Let's put your ego to one side for a minute.

Considering Morales had never looked like being stopped at 122, or anytime during his prime, how come Gomez brutally stops him?


OK, I say:

I genuinely believe Gomez would stop Morales in rather brutal fashion - and I'm a Morales fan.


To which you say:

:lol:I'm sorry, but let's forget nostalgia and get back to reality. Morales isn't getting stopped by anybody at 122lb. Not even by the great Wilfredo Gomez.


Does your response fit this description, or does it not?



Definitions of dismissive on the Web:

· Dismissiveness is a form of denial, characterized by either passively showing indifference or disregard, or actively dismissing or rejecting ideas or evidence.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dismissive ([Only registered and activated users can see links])


· Showing disregard, indicating rejection, serving to dismiss
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dismissive ([Only registered and activated users can see links])






I'd call it "vintage Selfkill", the same kind of shit you've been called on many times. You just never get any older or wiser.

[Minotauro]

Watch this one: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Sweet Pea]

Gomez was a beautiful technician.

aUQBQWXSe6M

[DINAMITA]

Considering Morales had never looked like being stopped at 122, or anytime during his prime, how come Gomez brutally stops him?

Don't you see what weak and illogical reasoning this is?

I suppose we can't predict that Roy Jones would've beaten Joe Calzaghe at 168 because Calzaghe never lost there. I suppose we can't predict Aaron Pryor would've stopped Ricky Hatton at 140 because Ricky has never been stopped there. I suppose we can't say Pernell Whitaker would've beaten Julio Cesar Chavez at his 1987 peak because no-one beat him till the 90s, and on and on and on....

Weak reasoning at its best/worst Selfkill.


Erik Morales never fought Wilfredo Gomez, so Morales's past fights prove nothing.

Watch how Morales is continually caught cleanly by Barrera in their 1st fight. Watch how Morales is hurt repeatedly. Now think if that was Gomez in there with him. You seem intent on refusing to acknowledge the mere possibility of a Gomez stoppage, and I think that shows the characteristic bias/flaws in your knowledge.

[Addie]

Don't you see what weak and illogical reasoning this is?


For asking why you thought Morales gets brutally stopped? Absolutely not. I've gave you the opportunity to present your case.

I suppose we can't predict that Roy Jones would've beaten Joe Calzaghe at 168 because Calzaghe never lost there. I suppose we can't predict Aaron Pryor would've stopped Ricky Hatton at 140 because Ricky has never been stopped there. I suppose we can't say Pernell Whitaker would've beaten Julio Cesar Chavez at his 1987 peak because no-one beat him till the 90s, and on and on and on....

I feel Morales is more durable than both Roy Jones Jr and Ricky Hatton, has shown shown enough will and determination in abundance to put him in the same vein as a Chavez, who was as close to unknockoutable as they come.

Weak reasoning at its best/worst Selfkill.

Completely unnecessary. One of a few reasons why you're posts leave a bad taste in my mouth.


Erik Morales never fought Wilfredo Gomez, so Morales's past fights prove nothing.

There would be need for these discussions if anything could be proven. Well observed.

You seem intent on refusing to acknowledge the mere possibility of a Gomez stoppage, and I think that shows the characteristic bias/flaws in your knowledge.

There is no refusal to acknowledge the possibility of a Gomez knockout at all. If that was the case, I wouldn't have asked any questions which implies that I am open for a differing opinion to my own. You thought because I included a emoticon I was being dismissive, and I was, as you are all of the time, but at least I admit it. That said, only a poster such as yourself would react as you have. It's laughable - which would explain why I have taken everything you have said with a pinch of a salt at best.

Good work on your response quoting definitions. More vintage pretentiousness from DINAMITA. You could and should have left it at this response, whic brings up fair points.

That said, I wouldn't favour Wilfredo Gomez, who was not as great offensively as Barrera at 122, to "brutally" stop prime Morales. Erik took a lot of hard shots against Barrera and was buzzed on a few occasions, but to quote your fine self, "Weak reasoning at its best/worst DINAMITA". Ultimately, Morales did not get knocked out, didn't come close ot it, and the knockdown was not even legitimate. The only time Morales was stopped or came close to it was way above 122, and way past his best. So I give the benefit of the doubt to Morales.

[DINAMITA]

Now you say:

There is no refusal to acknowledge the possibility of a Gomez knockout at all


But a page ago you said:

:lol: I'm sorry, but let's forget nostalgia and get back to reality. Morales isn't getting stopped by anybody at 122lb



Yawn. The same old shit. Arrogance followed by denial. Self-contradiction like only Selfkill can do. I'm bored with this tonight. Good night amigos.

[Addie]

Now you say:




But a page ago you said:





Yawn. The same old shit. Arrogance followed by denial. Self-contradiction like only Selfkill can do. I'm bored with this tonight. Good night amigos.

And now giving you the chance to state your case, as I've always done, which instead of doing, you would rather do the dramatic exit thing. You never actually leave when you do it though. A sense of achievement? Pretentious DINAMITA, congratulations. :good

Nostalgia brings on these comments of Gomez being so much superior to the likes of Barrera and Morales in every era. None of the videos presented into this discussions has shown me of superior combination punching than the likes of Barrera. There is no arguement from me that he would stop Marco, but I thought Morales would be harder style wise for Gomez, and has more punch resistance than Marco.

[Minotauro]

And now giving you the chance to state your case, as I've always done, which instead of doing, you would rather do the dramatic exit thing. You never actually leave when you do it though. A sense of achievement? Pretentious DINAMITA, congratulations. :good

Nostalgia brings on these comments of Gomez being so much superior to the likes of Barrera and Morales in every era. None of the videos presented into this discussions has shown me of superior combination punching than the likes of Barrera. There is no arguement from me that he would stop Marco, but I thought Morales would be harder style wise for Gomez, and has more punch resistance than Marco.

Watch this vid and you'll see what an amazing puncher Gomez was also great footwork and defence.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Addie]

Watch this vid and you'll see what an amazing puncher Gomez was also great footwork and defence.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

There is no denial on my part that Gomez was a great puncher. He had a hell of a lot of power, obviously, and he seems to catch a lot of shots. That said, I'll have to say it again, I've not seen any video evidence to suggest he was even on Marco's level when it came to putting punchers together in 3's and 4's. I don't think I saw a 4 punch combination in that last video, something Barrera would do every time on the counter. I could get footage of Marco throwing 7-8 punch combination's. The only reason I bought it up was to illustrate that Gomez is higher P4P, he is higher in the 122lb all time rankings, he hit a lot harder than Marco, but he does not have him beat in every department like you suggested earlier.

[WhataRock]

I think Morales would beat Gomez at 122. :good


Im just going to say Nah self..

The best way to illustrate my point if an ancient Zaragoza can give Erik that tough a fight with inferior boxing skill to Gomez, if Espadas, Chi and Barrera can damage Erik that badly with inferior power and offensive capability to Gomez then I cant really see an arguement for Morales in this one.
Especially when Wilfredo displayed a much more impressive run of dominance at the weight..perhaps the greatest of alltime at the limit.

I also think just because someone says that Gomez stops Morales brutally..its isnt neccesarily having a dig at Erik. When Wilfredo won fights..he did so brutally, in fact he had a 100% KO rate at 122.
As tough as Erik is, no one else could take Gomez's power at 122. Over 15 rounds, I dont think Morales is the exception.

[Flea Man]

I see Morales vs. Gomez as a slightly more competitive version of Zarate vs. Gomez.

Allowing Morales to lead, Gomez's exceptional footwork would win him the fight early. I can't imagine Morales chasing Gomez and doing anything good to be honest, Gomez would be skipping round the ring, darting in and out, being cagey, would wait for his moment to strike and then, with accurate shots (with either fist) would rock Morales.

Morales WAS rocked at 122, no? By Barrera no less who is nowhere near as hard/varied a puncher as Gomez.

Once he had him rocked, there would be no way back for El Terrible. Gomez was one of the greatest finishers of all time, and even if he didn't spark Morales completely, the beatdown that would follow would have Morales looking at his Dad to stop the fight.

[thanosone]

Morales is god. That's all bye.

[DINAMITA]

Im just going to say Nah self..

The best way to illustrate my point if an ancient Zaragoza can give Erik that tough a fight with inferior boxing skill to Gomez, if Espadas, Chi and Barrera can damage Erik that badly with inferior power and offensive capability to Gomez then I cant really see an arguement for Morales in this one.
Especially when Wilfredo displayed a much more impressive run of dominance at the weight..perhaps the greatest of alltime at the limit.

I also think just because someone says that Gomez stops Morales brutally..its isnt neccesarily having a dig at Erik. When Wilfredo won fights..he did so brutally, in fact he had a 100% KO rate at 122.
As tough as Erik is, no one else could take Gomez's power at 122. Over 15 rounds, I dont think Morales is the exception.

Quality Post Part One :good

[DINAMITA]

I see Morales vs. Gomez as a slightly more competitive version of Zarate vs. Gomez.

Allowing Morales to lead, Gomez's exceptional footwork would win him the fight early. I can't imagine Morales chasing Gomez and doing anything good to be honest, Gomez would be skipping round the ring, darting in and out, being cagey, would wait for his moment to strike and then, with accurate shots (with either fist) would rock Morales.

Morales WAS rocked at 122, no? By Barrera no less who is nowhere near as hard/varied a puncher as Gomez.

Once he had him rocked, there would be no way back for El Terrible. Gomez was one of the greatest finishers of all time, and even if he didn't spark Morales completely, the beatdown that would follow would have Morales looking at his Dad to stop the fight.

Quality Post Part Two :happy

[Addie]

Morales WAS rocked at 122, no? By Barrera no less who is nowhere near as hard/varied a puncher as Gomez.


Morales was rocked at 122lb, by a much more varied puncher than Wilfredo Gomez. Marco threw every punch in the book during his days at 122, and often in clusters of 4-5. There has not been one peice of video presented in this thread yet to to show Wilfredo putting together a text book 4 punch combination, both to the body and head, something that made Marco back in the day. I say Wilfredo hit harder, but Marco had more variety. I'll believe this until I see otherwise.


Once he had him rocked, there would be no way back for El Terrible. Gomez was one of the greatest finishers of all time, and even if he didn't spark Morales completely, the beat down that would follow would have Morales looking at his Dad to stop the fight.

I think Morales had a hell of a chin, he proved it throughout his career, and he would have enough will and determination to get through tough times against Wilfredo. He had trouble with Barrera because his opponent had so much variety in his offensive arsenal, and had faster hands than Gomez, so I don't see him taking as much punishment in this fight.

[WhataRock]

I really dont think it was the combination of punches that did the hurting from Barerra..it was usually the last punch that punctuated it that had Morales reeling.

I cant see how a couple of pitter patter shots the set that up is any better than the pontentially fight stoppping punch Gomez could often lead with and which was generally followed up by 2 or 3 more anyway.

I mean Sweet Pea had more variety than the both of them, and was better at putting him combos together. Doesnt mean he was anymore a lethal puncher.

[Addie]

I really dont think it was the combination of punches that did the hurting from Barerra..it was usually the last punch that punctuated it that had Morales reeling.Morales usually does not get stunned by single shots, it was combination's that caught his attention. He is hurt on three separate occasions in round 9, and they were all from 3-4 punch combination's. If Marco didn't display such a variety in his offense, he wouldn't have been as nearly as successful as he was, so it's important to credit him for it.


I cant see how a couple of pitter patter shots the set that up is any better than the pontentially fight stoppping punch Gomez could often lead with and which was generally followed up by 2 or 3 more anyway.Again, you should probably go re-watch their first fight. They weren't pitter patter punches. Even during Marco's days as a rising star, way before his first losses to jones, he was credited as having heavy hands. Mckinney said about Marco, "He doesn't have lights out power, but every punch he throws is hard". Barrera didn't throw pitter patter punches.

I mean Sweet Pea had more variety than the both of them, and was better at putting him combos together. Doesnt mean he was anymore a lethal puncher.There is no argument from me that Gomez was a more lethal puncher. How can that be disputed? What I am saying is, it's important to always keep all of these discussions in perspective. Gomez was better than Barrera at 122lb, but his combination punching was not. This is no shame, looking back at Marco's fights at that weight, a case can be made for him having one of the greatest offensive arsenals of the last 25 years.

As for Sweet Pea being a better combination puncher that Marco, I think Marco threw a lot more deadly combinations than Sweet Pea, who was more defensive minded than Super Bantam MAB. That said, when Sweet Pea wanted to open up, he threw some of the fastest and most beautiful combinations of recent times. No argument.

[WhataRock]

Marco did throw pitter pat combinations from time to time..that fight was probably not an example of it I have to admit. He nearly always put a hard punch at the end of it anyways.

We will have to agree to disagree self...I just feel Gomez's overall offensive ability is better, not just his power but his kit of punches, his footwork in getting into attacking position and his aggressive style. He is probably the better technician also and he had just about every punch in the book aswell.
How they went about it was different but I dont think Barrera's style was any more effective then Gomez's in getting the end result.

[Addie]

Marco did throw pitter pat combinations from time to time..that fight was probably not an example of it I have to admit. He nearly always put a hard punch at the end of it anyways.

We will have to agree to disagree self...I just feel Gomez's overall offensive ability is better, not just his power but his kit of punches, his footwork in getting into attacking position and his aggressive style. He is probably the better technician also and he had just about every punch in the book aswell.
How they went about it was different but I dont think Barrera's style was any more effective then Gomez's in getting the end result.

I base my opinion on video footage, and looking at the two is like night and day. I think Gomez was workman like, and didn't need to land as consecutively as Marco to get the job done because of his frightening power as a Super Bantamweight. Marco threw better combination's, probably some of the best during the 90s, it was his biggest strength.

We'll agree to disagree. Unless you show me footage of Gomez putting together better combination's. I would happily concede defeat if this was brought forward.

[WhataRock]

Im not really trying to say he does, they did things differently...but I think he put his punches together just aswell, perhaps not in such eye catching way but as effective as Barrera, if not more so.

I dont know if these have been put up before..Ill put them up anyway.

[YT][Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links][YT]

You notice how good a counter puncher Gomez was..He tended to prefer threading his hard single or double shots through the defenses of his opponants rather than throwing flurries..The important thing to note I feel is that he often followed it up with an almost non-stop barrage..Whereas Marco tended to almost sit back and admire his own work.

This is why I think Gomez is more effective in this respect, as his record showed he put guys away after hurting them. Not always straight away but in the end he would and often once they were badly hurt he would never ever let them off the hook.
Marco was a little more reserved in his approach, despite hurting Morales several times in that fight I dont think he followed it up enough to sustain long spells of dominance. I always think he almost laboured to put McKinney, Ayala and Maguna away, despite having them close to going earlier in their fights.

Im not trying the convince you that Gomez is the combo puncher that Marco is..But using his own style and attributes I consider him the more potent offensive fighter.

[Flea Man]

Im not really trying to say he does, they did things differently...but I think he put his punches together just aswell, perhaps not in such eye catching way but as effective as Barrera, if not more so.

I dont know if these have been put up before..Ill put them up anyway.

[yt][Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links][yt]

You notice how good a counter puncher Gomez was..He tended to prefer threading his hard single or double shots through the defenses of his opponants rather than throwing flurries..The important thing to note I feel is that he often followed it up with an almost non-stop barrage..Whereas Marco tended to almost sit back and admire his own work.

This is why I think Gomez is more effective in this respect, as his record showed he put guys away after hurting them. Not always straight away but in the end he would and often once they were badly hurt he would never ever let them off the hook.
Marco was a little more reserved in his approach, despite hurting Morales several times in that fight I dont think he followed it up enough to sustain long spells of dominance. I always think he almost laboured to put McKinney, Ayala and Maguna away, despite having them close to going earlier in their fights.

Im not trying the convince you that Gomez is the combo puncher that Marco is..But using his own style and attributes I consider him the more potent offensive fighter.

Very, very good post.

I can't get how anyone could dispute Gomez's talent, and in terms of combinations he was lethal.

Although not 'Prime' post-Sanchez, the Pintor fight is a good example of hsi combination punches. The last round (14th I believe) Gomez shows me why Barrera, Morales et al would stand no chance against him.

[DINAMITA]

Im not really trying to say he does, they did things differently...but I think he put his punches together just aswell, perhaps not in such eye catching way but as effective as Barrera, if not more so.

I dont know if these have been put up before..Ill put them up anyway.

[yt][Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links][yt]

You notice how good a counter puncher Gomez was..He tended to prefer threading his hard single or double shots through the defenses of his opponants rather than throwing flurries..The important thing to note I feel is that he often followed it up with an almost non-stop barrage..Whereas Marco tended to almost sit back and admire his own work.

This is why I think Gomez is more effective in this respect, as his record showed he put guys away after hurting them. Not always straight away but in the end he would and often once they were badly hurt he would never ever let them off the hook.
Marco was a little more reserved in his approach, despite hurting Morales several times in that fight I dont think he followed it up enough to sustain long spells of dominance. I always think he almost laboured to put McKinney, Ayala and Maguna away, despite having them close to going earlier in their fights.

Im not trying the convince you that Gomez is the combo puncher that Marco is..But using his own style and attributes I consider him the more potent offensive fighter.

Excellent post.

[Addie]

Very, very good post.

I can't get how anyone could dispute Gomez's talent, and in terms of combinations he was lethal.

Although not 'Prime' post-Sanchez, the Pintor fight is a good example of hsi combination punches. The last round (14th I believe) Gomez shows me why Barrera, Morales et al would stand no chance against him.

I also can't understand why anybody would dispute Gomez's talent. He was lethal, but Marco threw better combination's.

[Bill Butcher]

He be higher but not by heaps..Id probably have him top100 or just outside..Wouldnt be any higher than 80-85 at this stage IMO.

With a win over JMM he would probably sit in that 80-90 range in my list. I could understand a bit higher.

Just my opinion of him but I think the losses he had throughout his career prevented a good run of dominance and I also dont rate him as highly H2H as a lot of people do. Though dont get me wrong, he still rates very well.

Anyone who knows me on here knows I dont have a lot of time for Barrera.... but if anyone ever left him or his best bud Erik off a top 100 list... they should be locked in a dark room with 74 giant tarantula`s because THEY are whats wrong with the world.


Angola :fire

[DINAMITA]

Anyone who knows me on here knows I dont have a lot of time for Barrera.... but if anyone ever left him or his best bud Erik off a top 100 list... they should be locked in a dark room with 74 giant tarantula`s because THEY are whats wrong with the world.


Angola :fire

:lol: Have you ever met Sweet Scientist or Mantequilla?? Two of the elite posters of this forum, and I'm pretty sure neither have MAB or Erik in their century!

[WhataRock]

Anyone who knows me on here knows I dont have a lot of time for Barrera.... but if anyone ever left him or his best bud Erik off a top 100 list... they should be locked in a dark room with 74 giant tarantula`s because THEY are whats wrong with the world.


Angola :fire


You can search for my top 120 fighters alltime if you like..its floating somewhere on here in the classic. It has its flaws, as I just rushed it towards the end. MAB was in the top 100 but got pushed out by other fighers eventually.

If Mante and sweet see no room for Marco inside the top100, then I feel pretty comfortable about him being just outside mine.

[Addie]

You can search for my top 120 fighters alltime if you like..its floating somewhere on here in the classic. It has its flaws, as I just rushed it towards the end. MAB was in the top 100 but got pushed out by other fighers eventually.

If Mante and sweet see no room for Marco inside the top100, then I feel pretty comfortable about him being just outside mine.

I don't think individual top 100 lists hold much weight on the grand scale of things. The only definitive conclusion they come to is that every fighter on the list has achieved greatness, in some form or another. We can all agree that both Morales and Barrera certainly did that.

[WhataRock]

I don't think individual top 100 lists hold much weight on the grand scale of things. The only definitive conclusion they come to is that every fighter on the list has achieved greatness, in some form or another. We can all agree that both Morales and Barrera certainly did that.


They are your own personal lists in the end..and outside the top50 and it could go any way you like really, depending on what criteria you put the most emphasis on.

[Addie]

They are your own personal lists in the end..and outside the top50 and it could go any way you like really, depending on what criteria you put the most emphasis on.

My point exactly.

I mean, to me, Barrera was the best. I would pay to see him before any other fighter in history, and I'm more joyous when wins than any other fighter. More talented fighters have been and gone, sure, but I think this sport is so dear to us because we do find fighters to root for. That lasts forever.