View Full Version : Check out this latest Hatton interview, good grief
Betty Swollocks
03-02-2009, 01:16 PM
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in the link.
don't know where to start, but the p4p title talk every 3 seconds is getting beyond a joke....what a deluded, self-trumpet blowing pillock.
'we are 2 nice guys'
'It's the two most popular fighters in the world and the two most exciting fighters in the world fighting for the biggest prize in boxing, Manny's pound-for-pound title. It will be the fight of the year."
''That's why the fans love me in England just the same, because of what I stand for''
''a speed merchant and a master boxer like Malignaggi, I outboxed and outspeeded him''
''Wicky 'Atton is an absolute handful''
Roach said ''Ricky's win over Paulie Malignaggi proved nothing. He was a hand-picked opponent and I didn't even bother watching the fight." :lol:
YAWN* Swollocks, just fucking yawn.....:-(
The only sensible comment in that article came from Roach.
mrbassie
03-02-2009, 01:19 PM
I suppose it sounds better than "fighting for the biggest prize in boxing, the ibo title".
Roach forgot to say he was picked in the same way David Diaz was.....
Roach: "we picked De La Hoya because he can't pull the trigger ... he should've retired long ago."
Beeston Brawler
03-02-2009, 01:22 PM
Just excuse our Ricky, he isn't particularly bright.
toffeejack
03-02-2009, 01:28 PM
If Hatton wins it will be interesting to see if he actually thinks he's the #1 p4p fighter in the world afterwards.
barrington
03-02-2009, 01:30 PM
Another stupid thread from another/thee prize cunt.
barrington
03-02-2009, 01:31 PM
Roach: "we picked De La Hoya because he can't pull the trigger ... he should've retired long ago."Spot on.
Betty Swollocks
03-02-2009, 01:32 PM
surely even Hatton wouldn't have the gall to do that? He'd get laughed at.
Does he really believe this stuff??
another thing he says, he will be Pac's biggest ever opponent by coming in at 154. He says DLH was 147 at ring entrance but that what a load of bollocks, a to play down the size difference in Pac-DLH.
robpalmer135
03-02-2009, 01:33 PM
hatton winds me up
TommyV
03-02-2009, 01:48 PM
surely even Hatton wouldn't have the gall to do that? He'd get laughed at.
Does he really believe this stuff??
another thing he says, he will be Pac's biggest ever opponent by coming in at 154. He says DLH was 147 at ring entrance but that what a load of bollocks, a to play down the size difference in Pac-DLH.
Pacquiao was bigger than the walking corpse De La Hoya on fight night.
toffeejack
03-02-2009, 01:58 PM
I do think Hatton has a point though regarding the size issue.
The more I think about this fight the better chance I'm giving Hatton. I can't wait for it, it's gonna be a war.
Fat Joe
03-02-2009, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by WICKY
I've always believed I'm far too strong for anyone at light-welterweight
Then why did you run like a bitch from Urango?
robpalmer135
03-02-2009, 02:13 PM
i really want to know what Hatton stands for?
why does he talk in the third person??? i don't think he understand that there's know P4P belt. also why does he pronounce his t's and k's?
"i absolutely bull bulldozerd tysuzu into submission" yeh you and the ref mate!
i personally think ricky is gonna win the fight by stoppage, but its because hes fighting a guy that should be above super feather. diaz and oscar flatterd him big time.
Fat Joe
03-02-2009, 02:16 PM
I read Hatton's biography the other day (picked it up for 50p at a boot sale, wouldn't waste my £ getting it new), I've got a bit of a better opinion of him after raeding it, but it's very obvious that behind all the down to earth spiel Hatton has an enormous ego.
GazOC
03-02-2009, 02:18 PM
I read Hatton's biography the other day (picked it up for 50p at a boot sale, wouldn't waste my £ getting it new), I've got a bit of a better opinion of him after raeding it, but it's very obvious that behind all the down to earth spiel Hatton has an enormous ego.
Are you one of those loons who gets up at 8am on a Sunday morning to sift through other peoples rubbish?;)
Fat Joe
03-02-2009, 02:21 PM
Are you one of those loons who gets up at 8am on a Sunday morning to sift through other peoples rubbish?;)
I am a loon:nut But I'm never up that early.
onourway
03-02-2009, 03:16 PM
Then why did you run like a bitch from Urango?
How did he run from Urango?
He kept getting a bit too close if anything.
icemax
03-02-2009, 03:43 PM
He was a hand-picked opponent
That is one of the richest things that I have ever heard anyone say....Roach and Pacman have defined the term "hand picked opponent"
icemax
03-02-2009, 03:45 PM
a to play down the size difference in Pac-DLH.
Proof, or STFU :deal
hitman_hatton1
03-02-2009, 03:48 PM
so many haters on here. :yep
what do u expect hatton to say.
"he's over rated i'm gonna whack him like i'm his daddy" :lol:
hitman_hatton1
03-02-2009, 03:53 PM
i really want to know what Hatton stands for?
why does he talk in the third person??? i don't think he understand that there's know P4P belt. also why does he pronounce his t's and k's?
"i absolutely bull bulldozerd tysuzu into submission" yeh you and the ref mate!
i personally think ricky is gonna win the fight by stoppage, but its because hes fighting a guy that should be above super feather. diaz and oscar flatterd him big time.
what's that supposed to mean?
u want to know what he stands for? :huh
i actually think hatton will lose this fight.
i think pac is a difficult style and hatton will struggle with his speed. :bbb
robpalmer135
03-02-2009, 04:10 PM
what's that supposed to mean?
u want to know what he stands for? :huh
i actually think hatton will lose this fight.
i think pac is a difficult style and hatton will struggle with his speed. :bbb
seriously what does he stand for? i honestly don't know. i could come out with a clever joke but fear you will get pissed of and not tell me what he stands for?
MIK1000
03-02-2009, 04:20 PM
I wish hatton still had the shitey show on nuts tv, imagine during the phone in bit somebody phoned up and put him right on the spot and explained to him that there's no such thing as a transferable p4p title, it's a status.
trotter
03-02-2009, 04:24 PM
I wish hatton still had the shitey show on nuts tv, imagine during the phone in bit somebody phoned up and put him right on the spot and explained to him that there's no such thing as a transferable p4p title, it's a status.
He'd probably think 'oh' and get on with his life
Ironically it probably means far less to him than it does to Betty et al
That's the sad part of it
DOM5153
03-02-2009, 04:28 PM
I wish hatton still had the shitey show on nuts tv, imagine during the phone in bit somebody phoned up and put him right on the spot and explained to him that there's no such thing as a transferable p4p title, it's a status.
talking abouts nuts tv were an earth did it go?
trotter
03-02-2009, 04:53 PM
seriously what does he stand for? i honestly don't know. i could come out with a clever joke but fear you will get pissed of and not tell me what he stands for?
What does anybody 'stand for'?
What are you on about dude? You're making no sense, to me anyway.
'What does he stand for???!'
He's not gone and put Ricky Hatton up for election now has he.....:think
doggyland
03-02-2009, 05:14 PM
I bet Betty can't believe his luck - or maybe he was right all along?? But the fact of the matter is - Hatton is becoming the character Betty has accused him of being since the Tszyu fight....I know he is only trying to earn as much as he can - but he is now talking pure shyte that cannot be overlooked - he has morphed into a self obsessed fiend - i think he worships ODLH tbh and has rather thickly and naiively copied all the traits that Oscar had the ability to disguise.
Where do people get this idea Hatton is bigger than De La Hoya?
De La Hoya has filled out middleweight in the past. Hatton would look like a hot air balloon if he attempted something similar. Imagine him measuring up to Hopkins and you get an idea of how fucking stupid this theory is.
toffeejack
03-02-2009, 05:28 PM
Where do people get this idea Hatton is bigger than De La Hoya?
De La Hoya has filled out middleweight in the past. Hatton would look like a hot air balloon if he attempted something similar. Imagine him measuring up to Hopkins and you get an idea of how fucking stupid this theory is.
I don't think anyone is saying he's bigger than De la Hoya but Hatton will be physically stronger than De la Hoya was because it's his optimum weight.
I'm not saying that Hatton is definitely going to win but Pacquiao will be facing strength that he's not got near to facing before and nobody knows for certain how well he will deal with it.
draw99
03-02-2009, 05:31 PM
Where do people get this idea Hatton is bigger than De La Hoya?
De La Hoya has filled out middleweight in the past. Hatton would look like a hot air balloon if he attempted something similar. Imagine him measuring up to Hopkins and you get an idea of how fucking stupid this theory is.
Exactly - he aint bigger - hes just fatter!
Ricky says that Ricky is going to be in the Ring at 154lbs. Thats some serious pie eating between the weigh in and the fight :lol:
Seriously though - i cant quite get over the weight gain of modern fighters - I mean Hatton is going from 10st to 11st!
Do you think some fighters are bull shitting or just over estimating their ring weights, or are they able to dehydrate themselves that much for the weigh in? :think
trotter
03-02-2009, 05:34 PM
Exactly - he aint bigger - hes just fatter!
Ricky says that Ricky is going to be in the Ring at 154lbs. Thats some serious pie eating between the weigh in and the fight :lol:
Seriously though - i cant quite get over the weight gain of modern fighters - I mean Hatton is going from 10st to 11st!
Do you think some fighters are bull shitting or just over estimating their ring weights, or are they able to dehydrate themselves that much for the weigh in? :think
I think that putting that much on suggests you will be leaving a bit on the scales soon enough... Cotto was approaching that before he moved up to welter
Pretty sure Hatton won't be 154 anyway, could be wrong but I think he usually comes in about 148
@ TFFP - Hatton will be more than 146 which is what Oscar came in at. Simple as that.
robpalmer135
03-02-2009, 05:53 PM
What does anybody 'stand for'?
What are you on about dude? You're making no sense, to me anyway.
how about you actually listen to the interview.
I think that putting that much on suggests you will be leaving a bit on the scales soon enough... Cotto was approaching that before he moved up to welter
Pretty sure Hatton won't be 154 anyway, could be wrong but I think he usually comes in about 148
@ TFFP - Hatton will be more than 146 which is what Oscar came in at. Simple as that.
I hate to break this to you, but weight is a number. It does not make you bigger, neccessarily. Hence why Paul Williams can weigh in at the same as any welterweight and still be clearly and obviously defined as bigger.
De La Hoya has carried middleweight, which immediately marks him out as having a larger frame than Hatton who has struggled to carry 147lbs effectively.
Consider this: Hatton struggles at 147 and runs off back down to 140 while everybody discredits Pacquiao because Hoya is weak. Now people are trying to use the same argument to prove Hatton is "bigger". Wakey wakey dumbos, you've just defeated your own argument.
surreal deal
03-02-2009, 06:34 PM
another thing he says, he will be Pac's biggest ever opponent by coming in at 154. He says DLH was 147 at ring entrance but that what a load of bollocks, a to play down the size difference in Pac-DLH.
I was on your side up to that point Betty,despite you getting stick,but Ricky is right on this;
He WILL be the bigger man because Oscar,though naturally bigger,trained and dieted his way down to a virtual walking skellington.
He reduced himself to smaller than Ricky,and looked like shit after doing it.
I agree Hatton's PFP title talk every 5 minutes is absurd.
Walker Smith Jr
03-02-2009, 07:19 PM
why does he talk in the third person???
:rofl
Walker Smith Jr
03-02-2009, 07:40 PM
I agree this 'pound 4 pound title' talk is ridiculous. I'm still a big fan of Hatton but I'm getting more and more pissed by him. He's just got too big and it’s just the same old shit from him all the time. Every interview he tells the same fucking cheesy jokes and keeps telling us why everybody loves him.
Hatton is tailor-made for Manny. It will be a complete beat-down with Hatton getting KO'd. At the highest level Hatton's defence is almost non-existent and he has always struggled against speed.
skellington
03-02-2009, 07:48 PM
I read Hatton's biography the other day (picked it up for 50p at a boot sale, wouldn't waste my £ getting it new), I've got a bit of a better opinion of him after raeding it, but it's very obvious that behind all the down to earth spiel Hatton has an enormous ego.
Anyone who is successful has a big ego. Why do you think they are driven to arise above the mush? Why are you posting on this thread? Is your opinion really that unique? It's ego. Don't mean your a bad guy, just human nature.
Betty fulfills his by making bitchy threads behind a mans back...
mattress
03-02-2009, 08:05 PM
seriously what does he stand for?
he's a boxer....not a damn politician. Who gives a fuck what he 'stands for'??
GazOC
03-02-2009, 08:17 PM
Christ. What a fucking waste of time...........
And as for what Hatton "stands for".....jeez!!
hatton has caused a new state of torrettes syndrome, or thats what i think its gettin like
"FUCK .....RICKY ATTON .......FUCKIN SHEEP........RICKY HATTON..........."
the same old stuff gets spughed out every time, hattons got a show on the horizon, fuck sake he's fightin the best boxer on the planet :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl
Beatboxer
03-02-2009, 08:51 PM
I made a thread on the transferable Title thing a while back: expect the British media and casual Man City football fans to begin referring to Hatton as P4P#1 should he defeat Pacquaio.
Which I do feel he has a good chance of doing, btw.
JonOli
03-03-2009, 12:59 AM
I agree this 'pound 4 pound title' talk is ridiculous. I'm still a big fan of Hatton but I'm getting more and more pissed by him. He's just got too big and it’s just the same old shit from him all the time. Every interview he tells the same fucking cheesy jokes and keeps telling us why everybody loves him.Hatton is tailor-made for Manny. It will be a complete beat-down with Hatton getting KO'd. At the highest level Hatton's defence is almost non-existent and he has always struggled against speed
To be honest you don't sound the biggest fan of his noob.
djoc175
03-03-2009, 01:09 AM
Roach forgot to say he was picked in the same way David Diaz was.....
:goodValid point.
Hatton does annoy me though with all the 3rd person shite and talking about this imaginary p4p title which he thinks he will hold by beating Pac.Truth is,he won't really be p4p #1.He'll be #3/4 in my eyes
Fat Joe
03-03-2009, 04:24 AM
Anyone who is successful has a big ego. Why do you think they are driven to arise above the mush? Why are you posting on this thread? Is your opinion really that unique? It's ego. Don't mean your a bad guy, just human nature.
Betty fulfills his by making bitchy threads behind a mans back...
I didn't say he had a big ego, I said he had an enormous ego but tries to disguise it behind his down to earth bollocks.
why am I posting on this thread? Expressing my opinion, that's why I generally post on here.
"TKO"
03-03-2009, 05:59 AM
Yeah I'm sure the thousands of people who have met the guy in the flesh and haven't a bad word to say about him are all wrong and the few internet warriors who have an irrational dislike of him and will twist anything he says to suit their own hate agenda despite never having spoken two words to the guy are 100% correct. Sheesh!
I don't know why my response thread got moved, but I stick by my comments!
Fat Joe
03-03-2009, 06:11 AM
I never really post on here about Hatton's fighting ability, also I don't regard Hatton as a bad guy, he's just sly and sneaky and big headed as fuck. When you watch his interviews and read his quotes he always denigrates others whilst bigging himself up, but he dresses it up and tries to appear respectful (a bit like the way JonOli starts his Calzaghe hate threads).
Take his latest interview, he says somethig along the lines of, "I don't think britain has had a P4P #1 before" he's trying to make out he is bigger and better than the likes of Lewis, Calzaghe, Hamed etc - I don't think he is, he's a level below.
Obviously Betty, myself and a few others see this sneaky, sly character traits in Hatton.
Power
03-03-2009, 06:32 AM
how funny is it going to be if hatton wins and starts saying im p4p champ and then he checks he's only gone up a few places if any on the p4p list
bless him he's going to be heart broken
trotter
03-03-2009, 07:20 AM
Take his latest interview, he says somethig along the lines of, "I don't think britain has had a P4P #1 before" he's trying to make out he is bigger and better than the likes of Lewis, Calzaghe, Hamed etc - I don't think he is, he's a level below.
That's all in your mind to be fair. He might not be implying that. Nobody knows except him.
This is the problem with all these hater threads, they are borderline psychotic. Looking for hidden meanings.
I've met Hatton briefly, he seemed straight up, really nice kid, childish almost. Not this cunning deceitful character you guys obsess about.
Fat Joe
03-03-2009, 07:28 AM
That's all in your mind to be fair. He might not be implying that. Nobody knows except him.
I am a slightly paranoid person, but it always seems to me Hatton makes these sly little digs to elevate his own reputation, it wasn't so long ago he was giving Hamed a slagging for no reason just to big himself up.
achillesthegreat
03-03-2009, 08:09 AM
Ricky Hatton should be top 10 ranked. Beating Pac can put him at 1, especially as Calzaghe and Floyd are retired.
hitman_hatton1
03-03-2009, 08:23 AM
Ricky Hatton should be top 10 ranked. Beating Pac can put him at 1, especially as Calzaghe and Floyd are retired.
let's be honest it is a more open p4p no1 position with both floyd and joe gone.
whether ricky would deserve it if he beats pac is up for debate. i personally think hatton needs to add a few more wins.
beating marquez as well might crack the case. :yep
Even if Ricky and Pac both put on good performances and Hatton wins by KO;
Hatton would still have to beat Marquez to be P4P No 1.
Jack Dempsey
03-03-2009, 08:33 AM
Beating the P4P No1 does not make you P4P No1
toffeejack
03-03-2009, 08:46 AM
Even if Ricky and Pac both put on good performances and Hatton wins by KO;
Hatton would still have to beat Marquez to be P4P No 1.
Agreed.
He's certainly top 4 if he wins for me, possibly 3rd.
trotter
03-03-2009, 09:14 AM
Even if Ricky and Pac both put on good performances and Hatton wins by KO;
Hatton would still have to beat Marquez to be P4P No 1.
Why? In that scenario, Marquex didn't beat Pacman (2 attempts), Hatton did.
Marquez beat Diaz impressively - but then again how good is Diaz? Nate beat him too last time out. Maybe Diaz isn't quite as good as we thought.
Hatton just comprehensively beat the recognised no.1 challenger in his division too remember, whichever way you dress it up, that's what he did.
I'm not necessarily saying Hatton would go above Marquez. In fact, in my eyes he wouldn't. But it's not as cut and dried as people make out.
achillesthegreat
03-03-2009, 09:19 AM
let's be honest it is a more open p4p no1 position with both floyd and joe gone.
whether ricky would deserve it if he beats pac is up for debate. i personally think hatton needs to add a few more wins.
beating marquez as well might crack the case. :yep
I disagree with most. We are talking about a fighter who did work his way up and beat a p4p number 1-3 in Tszyu. That easily got Hatton a top 10 ranking. No one went crazy and put him at number 1 or 2 or 3. Then he beat top 10 P4P Castillo. I'm basing my rankings of what people are saying on ESB. I've seen enough debates here to say that Tszyu is considered all time top 10 140 and Castillo is considered all time top 30 135. Couple this with wins like unifying with Maussa and two weights with Collazo. Hatton should have comfortably been in the top 10, roughly 6. However after the loss to Floyd, I've never seen a fighter forgotten like that. He was totally forgotten and I think it was done on the basis that his loss was some sort of exposure (as if it never happened to many others).
Hatton came back against Lazcano and then beat Malignaggi who was considered his number 1 threat in the division and a champion. All Hatton did was prove he never left and still owned the division with an iron fist. This should have seen him reinstated well inside the top 10 on everyones list.
If he beats Pac, who is considered P4P1 then why wouldn't he be P4P1? Who would be? Marquez, Hopkins etc In Hatton, we are talking about a fighter who only knows what it is like to lose to the best fighter of his generation. If he beats Pac, a decent level of invincibility should be reinstalled. Especially considering how many people are predicting a ko, blowout etc
I think I consider JMM linear so Hatton beating him after Pac would be a special win. JMM beat WBC champ Casa and then won WBA and WBO v widely accepted number 1 Diaz (with Campbell gone). JMM is a special win.
Strike
03-03-2009, 09:26 AM
surely even Hatton wouldn't have the gall to do that? He'd get laughed at.
Does he really believe this stuff??
Dunno, why don't you call him up and ask?
dan-b
03-03-2009, 10:10 AM
First of all, for the people questioning others for asking what Hatton 'stands for', they were Hatton's own words. So what does he mean?
Secondly, are people seriously trying to suggest Hatton would go above Marquez on the basis of their H2H records against Pacqiaou? If they are, that's cool, but I always thought p4p lists were compiled with a fighter's whole record taken into consideration. Does somebody seriously want to argue Hatton has the better resume?
JonOli
03-03-2009, 10:14 AM
The vast majority of people would place Hopkins resume above JMM's (JMM sits higher p4p wise and did so before the Diaz win too) so it's not based on entire careers, but weighted on recent history. How recent, recent history is, is up for debate I guess.
Power
03-03-2009, 10:17 AM
if hatton beats pac, i dont think he deserves the p4p ranking.
IMO P4P means being the best of the best and being able to go through different weight classes and still be able to win like sugar ray robinson the p4p king.
Hatton cant function at anything other than his weight, not many can beat hatton at his weight, but if the weight was anything higher or lower he would lose IMO just like at the collazo fight which many thought he lost or was given a gift.
therefore some like marquez who was not only best at his weight, he's also moved up in weight and beat the best like hopkins has will always be before hatton in the p4p rankings.
JonOli
03-03-2009, 10:24 AM
if hatton beats pac, i dont think he deserves the p4p ranking.
IMO P4P means being the best of the best and being able to go through different weight classes and still be able to win like sugar ray robinson the p4p king.
Hatton cant function at anything other than his weight, not many can beat hatton at his weight, but if the weight was anything higher or lower he would lose IMO just like at the collazo fight which many thought he lost or was given a gift.
therefore some like marquez who was not only best at his weight, he's also moved up in weight and beat the best like hopkins has will always be before hatton in the p4p rankings.
So you don't think Cotto, Margo, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Hopkins even etc are "p4p" boxers?
Big Berto, rated by a fair few, struggled with Collanzo and many people thought Collanzo won the fight. Getting a close win against him at 147 while picking up a a title - is not a disgrace, and neither is losing to the best fighter of his generation at the weight.
dan-b
03-03-2009, 10:26 AM
Okay, lets look at it another way. When Roy Jones fought Calzaghe, Joe was considered p4p number 2 or 3 by most people. Where would Jones have ranked had he managed to beat Joe? People's answers to this should be an interesting indication as to how they compile p4p lists.
BTW, whatever timescale you put on Hatton's and JMM's respective records, the Mexican comes up better in my opinion. If someone can pick out a better period for the Hitman I would be genuinely interested to see it.
Jones is a good example, as he has a good overall resume but his performance was piss poor leading up to the Calzaghe fight, recent history.
One thing I could say with absolute certainty is that Ring Magazine would have had him 3 or 4. They are the kings of the kneejerk reaction.
Decebal
03-03-2009, 10:31 AM
Hatton would have to beat at least one proper WW to really go up the ladder. Cotto, Mosley, Williams...that kind of thing...at WW, of course.
dan-b
03-03-2009, 10:36 AM
Jones is a good example, as he has a good overall resume but his performance was piss poor leading up to the Calzaghe fight, recent history.
One thing I could say with absolute certainty is that Ring Magazine would have had him 3 or 4. They are the kings of the kneejerk reaction.
The Ring do have a tendency to be a bit knee jerk I agree (Caballero:huh) but I still respect their opinion as they clearly put a lot of thought into their rankings, even if the approach is sometimes misguided. In their January issue, where they ranked their top 100 fighters, Jones was ranked in the low fourties I believe (could be wrong on this). As the issue had gone to press the Cal/Jones fight hadn't taken place but they mentioned in the notes that, should Roy get the win, he would be elevated up the rankings but didn't specify how high. I reckon top 15 would be fair though given his overall resume and the fighter he would have been beating.
Power
03-03-2009, 10:39 AM
So you don't think Cotto, Margo, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Hopkins even etc are "p4p" boxers?
Big Berto, rated by a fair few, struggled with Collanzo and many people thought Collanzo won the fight. Getting a close win against him at 147 while picking up a a title - is not a disgrace, and neither is losing to the best fighter of his generation at the weight.
hasnt cotto and hopkings moved up in weight??
anyways i think your missing my point, im not saying he shouldnt be in the p4p rankings.... but no1 for beating pac at his own weight i disagree with there's far more deserving people like hopkins and marquez who prove time and time again that they can beat the best at different weights.
i'm a hatton fan he's from my home town and i respect him throughly but p4p is a title im not willing to give him till i see him do more.
JonOli
03-03-2009, 11:05 AM
hasnt cotto and hopkings moved up in weight??
anyways i think your missing my point, im not saying he shouldnt be in the p4p rankings.... but no1 for beating pac at his own weight i disagree with there's far more deserving people like hopkins and marquez who prove time and time again that they can beat the best at different weights.
i'm a hatton fan he's from my home town and i respect him throughly but p4p is a title im not willing to give him till i see him do more.
Tarver is the only guy at or below Hopkins career fighting weight he has beat. The same Tarver Dawson annihilated.
Cottos best win outside of 147 is Pauli at 140 where he was given a decent fight (many use the excuse Cotto was drained) - holding a WBO belt was the height of his achievments there. He's also lost to Margo at 147 who some see as limited. Cotto can't fight above 147, and now cannot fight below - so by your definition he is not p4p.
Anyway, p4p is based on how a fighter performs at their weight level, that is how it is assessed, otherwise 6 weight champ Oscar would be the greatest ever.
IF Hatton beats Pac and JMM I think he would have a claim at being p4p no1. JMM demolished what many see as the top guy at 135, and pac demolished the other Diaz there picking up a belt and also made a joke out of a much bigger man in Oscar at 147. Oscar who previously made a fight of it with Floyd, and beat Forbes easily...
Both Pac and JMM have footings around the weight, though with them coming up from smaller weights it will always leave a question.
Not really. It's based on who you beat and how you performed within a recent period.
If you step up and beat a top fighter that is impressive and is judged accordingly.
GazOC
03-03-2009, 11:17 AM
The top 3 P4P boxers in 1985 were Marvin Hagler, Donald Curry and Larry Holmes. None of them had fought, or would ever go onto fight, successfully outside their weight class.
JonOli
03-03-2009, 11:18 AM
"Not really. It's based on who you beat and how you performed within a recent period.
If you step up and beat a top fighter that is impressive and is judged accordingly. "
When a fighter moves up, generally, that is then their weight and get ranked in that division accordingly. JMM's Weight is now LW and he is ranked no1.
Power
03-03-2009, 11:18 AM
Tarver is the only guy at or below Hopkins career fighting weight he has beat. The same Tarver Dawson annihilated.
Cottos best win outside of 147 is Pauli at 140 where he was given a decent fight (many use the excuse Cotto was drained) - holding a WBO belt was the hight of his achievments there. He's also lost to Margo at 147 who some see as limited. Cotto can't fight above 147, and now cannot fight below - so by your definition he is not p4p.
Anyway, p4p is based on how a fighter performs at their weight level, that is how it is assessed, otherwise 6 weight champ Oscar would be the greatest ever.
IF Hatton beats Pac and JMM I think he would have a claim at being p4p no1. JMM demolished what many see as the top guy at 135, and pac demolished the other Diaz there picking up a belt and also made a joke out of a much bigger man in Oscar at 147. Oscar who previously made a fight of it with Floyd, and beat Forbes easily...
Hatton has just beat pauli convincingly yet do you think he could move up in weight and beat mosely like cotto did? (btw i still rank hatton above cotto in p4p list at the moment.)
according to your definition, vitali should be in the p4p top 10 also then am i correct because he performs awesome always at his weight and destroyed peter and probably will beat gomez?
ive just posted this on the general forum but ill re say it
if hopkins does fight valuv and losses, would you put valuv in your p4p list as he's beat a p4p top 5?
i think you do kinda agree with me when youve said
"IF Hatton beats Pac and JMM I think he would have a claim at being p4p no1. "
because i did state for him to be p4p no 1 he would have to do more
JonOli
03-03-2009, 11:19 AM
The top 3 P4P boxers in 1985 were Marvin Hagler, Donald Curry and Larry Holmes. None of them had fought, or would ever go onto fight, successfully outside their weight class.
To some that must mean their all limited bums.
"Not really. It's based on who you beat and how you performed within a recent period.
If you step up and beat a top fighter that is impressive and is judged accordingly. "
When a fighter moves up, generally, that is then their weight and get ranked in that division accordingly. JMM's Weight is now LW and he is ranked no1.
And? That's because he's beaten the top 2 fighters now that Campbell is gone, he deserves his ranking. And infact he's done more than Campbell anyway.
JonOli
03-03-2009, 11:25 AM
Hatton has just beat pauli convincingly yet do you think he could move up in weight and beat mosely like cotto did? (btw i still rank hatton above cotto in p4p list at the moment.)
according to your definition, vitali should be in the p4p top 10 also then am i correct because he performs awesome always at his weight and destroyed peter and probably will beat gomez?
ive just posted this on the general forum but ill re say it
if hopkins does fight valuv and losses, would you put valuv in your p4p list as he's beat a p4p top 5?
i think you do kinda agree with me when youve said
"IF Hatton beats Pac and JMM I think he would have a claim at being p4p no1. "
because i did state for him to be p4p no 1 he would have to do more
Could Cotto beat Hatton at 140 now? No. Cotto is not a 140 fighter just as Hatton is not a 147 figher.
As far as the HW goes I think they always get underapreciated in these lists.
Anyway to answer your quetion, imo: If Hopkins (ignoring age) went up to HW and beat Wlad and Vit, and then Valuev beat him - yes I would rank the win, but the rest of his resume would hold him back. Hopkins would need to establish himself around the weight first though for the win to mean that much. Your using a total extreme there though to make your case.
JonOli
03-03-2009, 11:27 AM
And? That's because he's beaten the top 2 fighters now that Campbell is gone, he deserves his ranking. And infact he's done more than Campbell anyway.
I was just defining what I meant by "at their weight".
robpalmer135
03-03-2009, 11:29 AM
i still dont know what ricky hatton stands for??? can someone please tell me?
There is nothing that says you have to move up in weight, and there is nothing that says if you fight at another weight you are then ranked lower and penalized just for taking on a greater challenge.
The be all and end all is who you fought, what condition they were in and how you perform. Naturally if a middleweight steps up and beats the top super middle that win is going to rank very highly as its a great challenge. But at the same time if you have great comp in your own division and you beat them...all well and good.
GazOC
03-03-2009, 11:36 AM
There is nothing that says you have to move up in weight, and there is nothing that says if you fight at another weight you are then ranked lower and penalized just for taking on a greater challenge.
The be all and end all is who you fought, what condition they were in and how you perform. Naturally if a middleweight steps up and beats the top super middle that win is going to rank very highly as its a great challenge. But at the same time if you have great comp in your own division and you beat them...all well and good.
Thats the point. Theres nothing thats says a great deal about how these rankings are compiled. People either have their own way of making their lists, boxers they like/ dislike, they prioritize recent fights, career accomplishments, H2H, "skillset":roll: (bollocks) etc differently and sometimes to suit their aformentioned likes an dislikes.
In short, the P4P rankings are a pretty pointless exercise IMHO.
JonOli
03-03-2009, 11:40 AM
if hopkins does fight valuv and losses
I know you were just using it as an example... but anyway..
I did read that he said he couldn't make HW, but could do cruiser. That was translated from Polish though.
dan-b
03-03-2009, 12:04 PM
I know you were just using it as an example... but anyway..
I did read that he said he couldn't make HW, but could do cruiser. That was translated from Polish though.
There's talk of a Adamek/Hopkins fight. This is a far more meaningful fight than a Valuev bout because Adamek is the number one, whereas Nikolai is merely a belt holder.
Decebal
03-03-2009, 12:18 PM
The top 3 P4P boxers in 1985 were Marvin Hagler, Donald Curry and Larry Holmes. None of them had fought, or would ever go onto fight, successfully outside their weight class.
Aye, but when you're competing against the likes of Pacquiao and JMM, who've beaten top guys outside their weight-class...it's hard to move ahead of them if you don't do the same...especially since they've fought each other in very close fights and since they're considered the best two in the world.
GazOC
03-03-2009, 12:26 PM
TBH Dece my post wasn't about Hattons P4P ranking, I genuinely don't care for the rankings at all. I was just making the point that there are so many "ifs", "buts" etc when people compile these these lists that any attempt at being consistent or being able to justify their logic over any length of time is very difficult.
P4P for me is to just be able to say, when you have someone like Ray Robinson or, more recently, Floyd Mayweather who were quite obviously the best fighters of their times, "he's P4P the best boxer in the world". As soon as people start making lists, swapping fighters around every month and trying to figure out who should go at number 7 or number 8 then it becomes a bit pointless to me.
It is a bit pointless and always has been ultimately very pointless.
But its fun and we've got fuck all else to talk about.
dan-b
03-03-2009, 12:50 PM
It is a bit pointless and always has been ultimately very pointless.
But its fun and we've got fuck all else to talk about.
Here's something, what would you make of a Adamek/Hopkins match up?
trotter
03-03-2009, 12:52 PM
In short, the P4P rankings are a pretty pointless exercise IMHO.
You wait until page 6 to tell us this lol
I agree
It's nice for the media to be able to proclaim somebody as the best fighter on the planet, and p4p means it doesn't always have to be a heavy
Thats about the be all and end all of their value
Seems to mean more to the younger crowd though
Power
03-03-2009, 12:52 PM
It is a bit pointless and always has been ultimately very pointless.
But its fun and we've got fuck all else to talk about.
yep what else would we have to argue over.
I would welcome it...why not. An old man stepping up to cruiserweight would be something amazing. I would put my money on Hopkins by decision and I think he would make it look easy.
I prefer Dawson because I think he poses an interesting stylistic question, nevertheless nobody can deny how good a win over Adamek would look on the CV.
Hopkins is a very smart man if he is trying to get that fight.
GazOC
03-03-2009, 12:53 PM
It is a bit pointless and always has been ultimately very pointless.
But its fun and we've got fuck all else to talk about.
I always know when I start talking P4P lists that I'm very bored and probably should find something else to do,
GazOC
03-03-2009, 01:05 PM
...but on a more positive note, at least one of Bettys threads has morphed into a worthwhile discussion. I suppose it had to happen sooner or later.
Decebal
03-03-2009, 01:08 PM
TBH Dece my post wasn't about Hattons P4P ranking, I genuinely don't care for the rankings at all. I was just making the point that there are so many "ifs", "buts" etc when people compile these these lists that any attempt at being consistent or being able to justify their logic over any length of time is very difficult.
P4P for me is to just be able to say, when you have someone like Ray Robinson or, more recently, Floyd Mayweather who were quite obviously the best fighters of their times, "he's P4P the best boxer in the world". As soon as people start making lists, swapping fighters around every month and trying to figure out who should go at number 7 or number 8 then it becomes a bit pointless to me.
I agree "100%". p4p lists, even if we all agreed on a certain standard to be used to make them (and there is no standard that is the only necessary and sufficient one that does the job), will be subjective, for sure. They're also pointless and arguing about them is silly.
Still, I'd say that to the extent that it makes sense to talk about "the best fighter in the world", Hatton and Pacquiao would have to perform amazingly well for a Hatton win to lead him to be considered the best in the world. I know you weren't talking about Hatton, though...it's cool...:p
Not sure why people are still talking about this, in this context. Yeah, Hatton talks a lot of rubbish, but who cares? It's a great fight and it needs hyping. Hatton's always been a master at hyping a fight.
This topic has been done to death anyway.
GazOC
03-03-2009, 01:22 PM
I think if Hatton beats Pac and JMM without controversy then he'd have a good shout at that accolade purely by attrition. I think people would be reluctant to rank boxers who had lost their last fights as the number 1 and Hatton would be the man who had just beaten the two obvious candidates. That said, you could also still argue that you should judge Pacs and JMMs careers as a whole and still rank them above Hatton.
JonOli
03-03-2009, 01:36 PM
I'm not sure if some people around here would be able to handle Hatton being p4p no1.
I think the place might go into meltdown...
GazOC
03-03-2009, 01:39 PM
I'm not sure if some people around here would be able to handle Hatton being p4p no1.
I think the place might go into meltdown...
It would be pretty funny.....:lol:
Decebal
03-03-2009, 01:44 PM
I think if Hatton beats Pac and JMM without controversy then he'd have a good shout at that accolade purely by attrition. I think people would be reluctant to rank boxers who had lost their last fights as the number 1 and Hatton would be the man who had just beaten the two obvious candidates. That said, you could also still argue that you should judge Pacs and JMMs careers as a whole and still rank them above Hatton.
Well...one way of looking at things is this: the only reason why Ricky would get to fight Pacquiao and JMM in the first place is because these lower weight fighters are so bloody good that they climbed a couple of divisions from their natural weight and beat everyone along the way.
The corollary would be this: if Ricky beat JMM and Pacquiao, became p4p No.1 and then beat everyone at LWW, WW and LMW, but got beat by Pavlik at MW, would that make Pavlik p4p No. 1 because he beat Ricky? Surely not! It would just be a matter of Ricky having gone too far up in weight...right?
A fighter could be the best in the world fighting in only one division throughout his career, true...but when you beat smaller fighters who have climbed a couple of divisions from their initial best weight...that's not the kind of performance that defines your career.
Even if Hatton beats Pacquiao in a great performance, his great performance against Tszyu would still most likely be his career defining performance.
Does that mean Ricky cannot win? He's damned if he does and he'd damned if he doesn't? No...it just means he'd most likely have to beat Pacquiao and then a top WW to have a better claim of being the best in the world than the likes of Pacquiao and JMM, for example. IMO. :)
JonOli
03-03-2009, 01:56 PM
The corollary would be this: if Ricky beat JMM and Pacquiao, became p4p No.1 and then beat everyone at LWW, WW and LMW, but got beat by Pavlik at MW, would that make Pavlik p4p No. 1 because he beat Ricky? Surely not! It would just be a matter of Ricky having gone too far up in weight...right?
The thing is that Pac and JMM to some degree have proven themselves around the weight. It may well be that JMM fights one of the belt holders at 140, he's just KOed the top well respected guy at 135. That is differnt than a fighter just suddenly moving several weights...
Also Hopkins win over Pavlik is well respected yet Pavlik is obviosly best at MW...
trotter
03-03-2009, 01:56 PM
Does that mean Ricky cannot win? He's damned if he does and he'd damned if he doesn't? No...it just means he'd most likely have to beat Pacquiao and then a top WW to have a better claim of being the best in the world than the likes of Pacquiao and JMM, for example. IMO. :)
I'd feel the same probably
The WW bit only because their are no 140 lb'ers right now to take on
JonOli
03-03-2009, 01:58 PM
As far as i'm aware Haglers best wins are against guys comeing up in weight, and so are popkins...
Fat Joe
03-03-2009, 02:00 PM
I'm not sure if some people around here would be able to handle Hatton being p4p no1.
I think the place might go into meltdown...
Fingers crossed it doesn't happen
JonOli
03-03-2009, 02:06 PM
Fingers crossed it doesn't happen
I don't mind Hatton but I must admit I'd feel a bit uneasy about him being p4p no1.
Still it would be pretty funny to see some people's reactions on here. :D
Fat Joe
03-03-2009, 02:08 PM
I don't mind Hatton but I must admit I'd feel a bit uneasy about him being p4p no1.
Still it would be pretty funny to see some people's reactions on here. :D
I'd rather close my account than give a reaction.
No seriously I don't think it will happen, I expect Pacman to bash him up.
Decebal
03-03-2009, 02:23 PM
The thing is that Pac and JMM to some degree have proven themselves around the weight. It may well be that JMM fights one of the belt holders at 140, he's just KOed the top well respected guy at 135. That is differnt than a fighter just suddenly moving several weights...
Also Hopkins win over Pavlik is well respected yet Pavlik is obviosly best at MW...
I think that's missing the point. The fact that Pac and JMM have proved themselves coming up in weight is to their credit...not something to be used against them if they fail against someone bigger, who's fighting at their natural weight. Using my hypothetical example, if Hatton beat Pacman and JMM and was considered p4p no. 1, and then proved themselves as the best at WW and LMW (proving himself around the weight), would Pavlik be considered p4p no.1 if he beat Hatton, who proved he could cut it at LMW? Surely not...
Same thing applies here.
Fighters who are incredibly good and dominant in a division usually have no trouble going up a division and beating one of the beltholders there...Mayweather didn't even take on the best WWs whilst claiming he was the p4p No.1, nevermind going up to LMW or MW to fight the best. Fuck that. Same goes for Ricky. If he'd have been the best in the world, he'd have beaten Mayweather, right? Ermmm...no...the reason he didn't beat Mayweather was not because he wasn't the best in the world, although that did have something to do with it...:)
JonOli
03-03-2009, 02:49 PM
I think the comparison between Hatton and Pavlik at middle weight is misleading;) as there is a bit of a nothing division in between 147 and 160 and people tend to think it goes Welter then Middle. There's 13lb gap with few recognised fighters at the nothing weight in the middle... people tend to forget...
Anyway...
JMM is now the no1 man at 135, pac is coming down in weight from his last fight to fight Hatton.
Roach states that Pacs best weight is 140 (how i'm not sure - but that was before the Oscar fight), and JMM looked scintillating at 135.
The two guys look very good at the weights, some say as good as they have ever been. Is it really such an issue where they came from? Surley it should be more based on what they look like fighting at the weight, when assessing how good a win over them is.
I do agree though that the wins would perhaps have greater credibility if Hatton was moving up in weight himself.
dan-b
03-03-2009, 03:09 PM
I would welcome it...why not. An old man stepping up to cruiserweight would be something amazing. I would put my money on Hopkins by decision and I think he would make it look easy.
I prefer Dawson because I think he poses an interesting stylistic question, nevertheless nobody can deny how good a win over Adamek would look on the CV.
Hopkins is a very smart man if he is trying to get that fight.
Dawson is a better fighter than Adamek but I think a win over Tomasz does more for Hopkins's legacy than a win over Chad. The problem with a Dawson fight, also, is that he's tied up with Tarver until May and, if Bernard is going to fight again, he won't want to leave it that long. Where would he rank all time if he grabbed the cruiserweight title in your opinion?
icemax
03-03-2009, 08:16 PM
For Hatton to even have a sniff at becoming p4p #1 he would have to take on and beat the only man that has ever beaten him...victories over Pac and a PBF at 147 might seal it, throw in JMM and he is a shoe in.
Dawson is a better fighter than Adamek but I think a win over Tomasz does more for Hopkins's legacy than a win over Chad. The problem with a Dawson fight, also, is that he's tied up with Tarver until May and, if Bernard is going to fight again, he won't want to leave it that long. Where would he rank all time if he grabbed the cruiserweight title in your opinion?
I agree. Cruiserweight champion makes all the sense in the world at this stage, and Adamek seems to have a reasonable Polish following, whereas Dawson is still a bit of a nobody for some reason. Dawson is the better fighter mind, I think he's proven that.
But yes, for achievement, and from a tactical viewpoint I can see this is a very attractive fight for Hopkins.
I'm not sure exactly where he'd be now, I'd suggest 50ish, adding cruiserweight titles into his legacy would probably boost him another 5 or so places. It's hard to say exactly, its the achievement and longevity above the name "Adamek" we're ranking it for.
ninebar
03-03-2009, 08:45 PM
For Hatton to even have a sniff at becoming p4p #1 he would have to take on and beat the only man that has ever beaten him...victories over Pac and a PBF at 147 might seal it, throw in JMM and he is a shoe in.
:good
The only way the "P4P Title" (as Ricky likes to put it) changes hand's in one fight is Marquez vs Pacquiao III.
Healy
03-03-2009, 09:53 PM
Il some up my beliefs on hot topics in this thread
Paulie v Hatton
I called this wrong, more based on my dislike for Hatton and hope that Paulie could perform and put together some of his form prior to Cotto beating him. In truth Paulie wasnt good enough in that fight, Hatton was still easy to hit and was sloppy but Paulie wasnt up to it.
Pacman v Oscar
Not matter what anyone says, this was crazy. A munchkin comming up an hammering a bigger man, although over the hill. Pacman deserves some some credit for beating this one time great Oscar that most saw as favorite and that ran PBF close not many a year before this fight.
Will Hatton be bigger than Oscar?
No, not really, he will have to make weight at 140, he may bulk up to say 146-148 so technically he could be a bit bigger (weight wise). Oscar is 3 inches taller than Hatton, so his 146 will look thin compared to Hattons 146 per se, Hatton will look more bulky than Oscar but in truth there wont be much a difference. Nothing to say he will be huge compared to what Oscar was
What does Hatton stand for?
Long story short, BULLSHITING people. A general spoofness that appeals to the media and sells him as a nice guy type. Easy to see through. Probably is genuinely and generally down to earth, but is also lacking personality and esteem because he puts on this act and is very dated. His aim is to reach out to people with his tales/chat/promises and make himself look good.
Hatton and P4P #1?
About as close to it as W.Klitschko or Chris John is to be honest. Commands one division and does it well. Stepped up and struggles twice. P4P #1 fighters must command many different divisions, ala Mayweather, Pacman or Hopkins. Its a silly concept in a way and its even sillier that Hatton and anyone else even considers that he be a true P4P #1, he would probably have to beat Pacman and then move up and fight Cotto and Mosley. Its pretty trivial but for arguement sake, real P4P #1's have great scalps from a few different weight classes and credible wins which Hatton doesnt and probably never will have, so let the media and casuals talk all they want, as boxing fans we shouldnt be dragged into it.
The fight itself,
Pacman should win by mid/late stoppage
JonOli
03-03-2009, 10:06 PM
I think it's just great how you Scots, Irish and Welsh always seem to absolutely adore English boxers that are popular with the English public.
GazOC
03-03-2009, 10:08 PM
That was quite well considered Healy apart from self contradictory psycho babble paragraph. Stick to the boxing eh?
Hatton is usually around 152-153 on fight night these days IIRC, he'll be marginally bigger than Oscar was but, unlike Oscar, he'll be strong at the weight.
JonOli
03-03-2009, 10:12 PM
To be fair I thought it was generally quite respectable apart from a few bits..
trotter
03-04-2009, 03:51 AM
For Hatton to even have a sniff at becoming p4p #1 he would have to take on and beat the only man that has ever beaten him...victories over Pac and a PBF at 147 might seal it, throw in JMM and he is a shoe in.
PBF is retired though...
Also you seem to be setting very high targets compared to what PBF himself did for his no.1 ranking.
Fat Joe
03-04-2009, 04:38 AM
Originally posted by Healy
What does Hatton stand for?
Long story short, BULLSHITING people. A general spoofness that appeals to the media and sells him as a nice guy type. Easy to see through.
:deal
Hatton and P4P #1?
P4P #1 fighters must command many different divisions
Got to disagree with you here. If Hatton was to beat Pac and then JMM you'd have say he was #1. As Jonoli says Pacman is actually coming down in weight and apparently struggles to make 135 so he is now a WW, so it wouldn't really be a case of Hatton bashing up a smaller man.
The fight itself,
Pacman should win by mid/late stoppage
I hope so, but in his 2 forays above 130 Pac has taken nothing back and surely Hatton (who's speed is underrated) will give him something to think about.
Healy
03-04-2009, 11:59 AM
I retract nothing and my rant was well mannered and to the point:bart
"TKO"
03-04-2009, 12:50 PM
I retract nothing and my rant was well mannered and to the point:bart
Are you Rafa in disguise?
Most of what Healy said were actual fahcts though.
GazOC
03-04-2009, 12:56 PM
So when did he get his Physcology Doctorate?
Francis75
03-04-2009, 12:58 PM
F#ck sake. Ricky Hatton will never be rated P4P number 1 by anyone other than himself because he is simply not good enough to have that title. He says himself that he can't fight and beat the top guys at 147 yet he thinks that if he beats Pacman who has recently moved up from 130 then he will be P4P number 1 ? Get f#cked Ricky. Pacman is only fighting at 140 and 147 against Oscar because they are the money fights. If Oscar and Hatton etc etc (the cash cows) didn't exist then he would definately be campaigning at 135.
Right now i would have Hatton in the lower end of a top 10 like most others. If he defeats Pacman then i would put him at 3-5 depending on his performance. Hopkins and Marquez would still be clearly ahead imo and so would Floyd and Calzaghe if they were still active. Gee i hope Manny smashes him to bits.
trotter
03-04-2009, 12:58 PM
Most of what Healy said were actual fahcts though.
While I don't necessarily disagree with all of what Healy said, very, very little was 'fact'. It was almost entirely opinion.
So when did he get his Physcology Doctorate?
There is nothing in his avatar or overall internet persona that would suggest he hasn't got one. I think we should assume he has until proven otherwise.
GazOC
03-04-2009, 01:01 PM
There is nothing in his avatar or overall internet persona that would suggest he hasn't got one. I think we should assume he has until proven otherwise.
Yep, just like I assume that everyone on here has an IQ over 130 and is a high powered Property Developer.;)
GazOC
03-04-2009, 01:02 PM
While I don't necessarily disagree with all of what Healy said, very, very little was 'fact'. It was almost entirely opinion.
Opinions are facts when they tie in with TFFPs opinions.:D
trotter
03-04-2009, 01:02 PM
F#ck sake. Ricky Hatton will never be rated P4P number 1 by anyone other than himself because he is simply not good enough to have that title. He says himself that he can't fight and beat the top guys at 147 yet he thinks that if he beats Pacman who has recently moved up from 130 then he will be P4P number 1 ? Get f#cked Ricky. Pacman is only fighting at 140 and 147 against Oscar because they are the money fights. If Oscar and Hatton etc etc (the cash cows) didn't exist then he would definately be campaigning at 135.
Right now i would have Hatton in the lower end of a top 10 like most others. If he defeats Pacman then i would put him at 3-5 depending on his performance. Hopkins and Marquez would still be clearly ahead imo and so would Floyd and Calzaghe if they were still active. Gee i hope Manny smashes him to bits.
I think the fact that you are resorting to putting retired fighters ahead of him speaks volumes.
Yep, just like I assume that everyone on here has an IQ over 130 and is a high powered Property Developer.;)
You need not assume. I think we've established this as fahct. I severely doubt that anybody on here would lie or oversell themselves.
GazOC
03-04-2009, 01:06 PM
Genuine question: Has there ever been a top, or say top 3, Ring P4P ranked fighter who lost his last fight?
Francis75
03-04-2009, 01:09 PM
I think the fact that you are resorting to putting retired fighters ahead of him speaks volumes.
What do you mean ? Speaks volumes for what ? Floyd and calzaghe are only recently retired and anyone with any degree of boxing knowledge would have them miles above Hatton IF they were still active. Anyway as it is Hopkins and Marquez would still be above Hatton imo even if Hatton beats the smaller Pacman.
Where would you have Hatton if he wins ?
Francis75
03-04-2009, 01:11 PM
Genuine question: Has there ever been a top, or say top 3, Ring P4P ranked fighter who lost his last fight?
Good question. I don't recall it happening. What if Manny loses a razer thin decision to Hatton. Will most people retain Manny at number 1 or will they go with Hopkins or Marquez ?
I suspect Francis 75 is not a fan of Ricky Hatton....:think
GazOC
03-04-2009, 01:21 PM
Good question. I don't recall it happening. What if Manny loses a razer thin decision to Hatton. Will most people retain Manny at number 1 or will they go with Hopkins or Marquez ?
If Pac got dropped, I'd guess JMM would get the nod. Then it would be interesting how the people who compile these rankings would deal with a Hatton win over JMM.....
ninebar
03-04-2009, 01:21 PM
Good question. I don't recall it happening. What if Manny loses a razer thin decision to Hatton. Will most people retain Manny at number 1 or will they go with Hopkins or Marquez ?
Marquez is pushing Manny all the way for no.1, If Pacman loses to Hatton then we would see Marquez overtake Pacquiao as P4P no1 and Pacquiao slip a place with Hopkins just behind in 3rd.
If this were to happen (and it's all hypothetical) what would happen then if Hopkins goes on to beat Adamek?
Francis75
03-04-2009, 01:23 PM
I suspect Francis 75 is not a fan of Ricky Hatton....:think
No i'm not, but i'm not blind either. He is a very good fighter (as i said before lower end of a top 10 P4P list imo). Just annoyed with Ricky's deluded P4P number 1 talk. :-(
GazOC
03-04-2009, 01:27 PM
Just annoyed with Ricky's deluded P4P number 1 talk. :-(
I think he's just pitching his spiel at his target audience ie. people who arn't big boxing fans but who watch Hatton fights. Mildy annoying but not a capital offence.
Healy
03-04-2009, 01:36 PM
While I don't necessarily disagree with all of what Healy said, very, very little was 'fact'. It was almost entirely opinion.
Educated opinion:tong
widdy
03-04-2009, 04:36 PM
i think a lot of people put to much into fighters moving up in weight,its not some superman feat that they can do this.
some fighters can move up weight no problem,its there bodys,some fighters grow more slowly,there bone structures are different,legs bigger,backs wider ect.
why is a fighter who moves up in weight a so called p4p,theres fighters in the past who are much better who stayed at there weight.
a prime example is marvin hagler,a career middleweight,who dominated and beat everyone out there,yet the hitman hearns who hagler fpught,moved up to lightheavy 3 or 4 fights after hagler no problem,not a chance hagler could of done that
i just dont see the big deal you all make about weight jumping
I think he's just pitching his spiel at his target audience ie. people who arn't big boxing fans but who watch Hatton fights. Mildy annoying but not a capital offence.
People who are not true boxing fans?
Fat Joe
03-04-2009, 04:48 PM
People who are not true boxing fans?
Alistair will try to spin his way out of this one but I think you've finally got him:thumbsup
GazOC
03-04-2009, 05:08 PM
Alistair will try to spin his way out of this one but I think you've finally got him:thumbsup
No spin needed at all, just because you are a Hatton fan it doesn't mean you're not a boxing fan. You can be Hatton fan AND a boxing fan OR you can be Hatton fan without being a boxing fan. People who just watch Hatton are not true boxing fans, people who watch Hatton and also watch other fighters might well be true boxing fans. Quite simple and no spin required. Better luck next time Monica.
He spun that like Muralitharan!! :blurp
I wonder if hes as bent as his action
But seriously what % of the Hatton audience would be true boxing fans in your estimation?
Boxing is a niche sport the more people watching the better.Anally retentive or not...
The sport needs as much attention as possible to keep coverage on TV.
trotter
03-04-2009, 05:49 PM
He spun that like Muralitharan!! :blurp
I wonder if hes as bent as his action
But seriously what % of the Hatton audience would be true boxing fans in your estimation?
Relatively low, in my opinion, going by what I assume is your somewhat teenage definition of a 'true fan'
In many ways that is to Hatton's credit, he has transcended the sport in the UK, and a LOT of young fans and fighters have been inspired by him
I don't get what this fuss about 'true fans' is anyway, it's super gay and even worse than 'p4p' in the validity stakes
I would say most British fighters have attracted a 'casual' crowd down the years. Are you telling me that Benn, Eubank, Bruno, Cooper, McGuigan, Hamed - any big name you care to mention - were watched by huge crowds with a deep knowledge of the boxing scene?
Relatively low, in my opinion, going by what I assume is your somewhat teenage definition of a 'true fan'
In many ways that is to Hatton's credit, he has transcended the sport in the UK, and a LOT of young fans and fighters have been inspired by him
I don't get what this fuss about 'true fans' is anyway, it's super gay and even worse than 'p4p' in the validity stakes
I would say most British fighters have attracted a 'casual' crowd down the years. Are you telling me that Benn, Eubank, Bruno, Cooper, McGuigan, Hamed - any big name you care to mention - were watched by huge crowds with a deep knowledge of the boxing scene?
Maybe not. But they could at least appear presentable. Did Cooper's lot wear Man City shirts, drink loads of beer, shout obscenities etc - back in the day?
Fat Joe
03-04-2009, 05:51 PM
Quite simple and no spin required. Better luck next time Monica.
:lol:
toffeejack
03-04-2009, 05:55 PM
He spun that like Muralitharan!! :blurp
I wonder if hes as bent as his action
But seriously what % of the Hatton audience would be true boxing fans in your estimation?
Probably around 30% I would say.
Most of them at the PBF fight were drunken football hooligans with those stupid chants and those annoying fucking drums.
Real boxing fans don't go shouting that ridiculous and overused "There's only one <insert boxer name here>" song.
Yeah for model citizenery they should check out Young Muttley vs Kevin Andersons fighting fans or Riddick Bowe vs Golota's 1's fans and any other major riots at boxing matches.
I think they should stop intimidating his opponents with their drunken ways giving Hatton an unfair advantage.
I reckon it must be really scary for these fighters when they walk out to a cauldron of soccer chanting. I am reminded of the quote "Kick Racism Out Of Football". Well..."Kick Football Out Of Boxing".
Yeh it really affected PBF the poor boy
trotter
03-04-2009, 06:17 PM
Maybe not. But they could at least appear presentable. Did Cooper's lot wear Man City shirts, drink loads of beer, shout obscenities etc - back in the day?
Did they fuck, they were probably Millwall, Charlton or Palace
Maybe not PBF but Lazcano, and many of the opponents in Manchester especially where it is completely out of control and unfair.
I think Security should clamp down on football chanting. Maybe play sound from a German crowd over the loud speaker system to drown it out, volume magnified X100.
Maybe not PBF but Lazcano, and many of the opponents in Manchester especially where it is completely out of control and unfair.
I think Security should clamp down on football chanting. Maybe play sound from a German crowd over the loud speaker system to drown it out, volume magnified X100.
Now I know you're trolling :lol:
GazOC
03-04-2009, 06:23 PM
He spun that like Muralitharan!! :blurp
I wonder if hes as bent as his action
But seriously what % of the Hatton audience would be true boxing fans in your estimation?
When I went Vegas I was with 3 mates who like Hatton but arn't "mad" or particulary interested in boxing. I remember thinking what was pretty indicative of the Hatton support over there at the time (~25%/75%).
FWIW Hayes support at the O2 for the Enzo fight was no better and probably worse IMHO.
I hope UK boxing crowds never get like the Germans, I like a bit of singing and atmosphere.
trotter
03-04-2009, 06:28 PM
When I went Vegas I was with 3 mates who like Hatton but arn't "mad" or particulary interested in boxing. I remember thinking what was pretty indicative of the Hatton support over there at the time (~25%/75%).
Probably true of cricket and football crowds abroad too, when the venue is somewhere attractive
I'm not convinced.
The Germans are classy. There is a whispering in the crowd, almost as if they are discussing tactics and subtle adaptations in the ring.
Also they have fit birds playing Violins.
GazOC
03-04-2009, 06:33 PM
How about we get back to 2 blokes knocking the shit out of each other for £20 a corner in a smokey room in front of a couple of hundred men in dinner jackets?
That's a bit farfetched. Think of the venue, the logistics as far as media coverage would not work. The men with dinner jackets would have to pay an awful lot of coin.
I think we could find a happy medium. No football shirts. No football chants. Every person is given a ticket as they enter the building with 5 beers on it. After each beer they buy one is crossed off. If they do not present their ticket No Beers. Skinny individuals get an allowance of 3 beers.
GazOC
03-04-2009, 06:50 PM
That's a bit farfetched. Think of the venue, the logistics as far as media coverage would not work. The men with dinner jackets would have to pay an awful lot of coin.
I think we could find a happy medium. No football shirts. No football chants. Every person is given a ticket as they enter the building with 5 beers on it. After each beer they buy one is crossed off. If they do not present their ticket No Beers. Skinny individuals get an allowance of 3 beers.
I take it you're not a big libertarian then?
GazOC
03-04-2009, 06:53 PM
Boxing is a niche sport the more people watching the better.Anally retentive or not...
The sport needs as much attention as possible to keep coverage on TV.
Thats one of the problems, some of the same people who complain that theres not enough boxing on TV or in the papers are the first turn their noses up when a boxer gets a little to popular with the mainstream auduence. Its like they're trying earn credibility points as a hardcore fan.
You know, like when teenagers give it the "Oh, they've sold out now. Their first album was SO much better than their new stuff...."
nulty
03-04-2009, 06:56 PM
I take it you're not a big libertarian then?
He's such a big fan of Germany and so against fun. I think he may Adolfs bastard son.
Am I the only one who when on holiday is returning to the hotel at 5am only to see Germans starting there day armed with beach towels?
He's such a big fan of Germany and so against fun. I think he may Adolfs bastard son.
Am I the only one who when on holiday is returning to the hotel at 5am only to see Germans starting there day armed with beach towels?
Horrible stereotype.
They were probably Austrian.
nulty
03-04-2009, 06:59 PM
That's a bit farfetched. Think of the venue, the logistics as far as media coverage would not work. The men with dinner jackets would have to pay an awful lot of coin.
I think we could find a happy medium. No football shirts. No football chants. Every person is given a ticket as they enter the building with 5 beers on it. After each beer they buy one is crossed off. If they do not present their ticket No Beers. Skinny individuals get an allowance of 3 beers.
I fear I would have to take your ticket and those of your friends.
An allowance of 3 beers for skinny people what about large alcoholics like me?
nulty
03-04-2009, 07:02 PM
Horrible stereotype.
They were probably Austrian.
Those god damn austrians hurting the image of the good people of germany.
Couldn't they just stick to bbq's, cricket and making episodes of neighbours.
I always knew they were trouble.
I fear I would have to take your ticket and those of your friends.
An allowance of 3 beers for skinny people what about large alcoholics like me?
Sorry I wouldn't cater specifically for alcoholics. That would be frowned upon in my society, not actively encouraged.
GazOC
03-04-2009, 07:05 PM
Icelands very own Quisling...
nulty
03-04-2009, 07:06 PM
Sorry I wouldn't cater specifically for alcoholics. That would be frowned upon in my society, not actively encouraged.
How about if me and the lads just get pissed before coming to the arena?
nulty
03-04-2009, 07:08 PM
Sorry I wouldn't cater specifically for alcoholics. That would be frowned upon in my society, not actively encouraged.
Well Glasgow frowns upon sobriety. And I bet a bunch of drunken scots would beat the shit out 3/5 beers icelanders.
PS I'm not even scottish.
How about if me and the lads just get pissed before coming to the arena?
The Security would assess you and your friends condition on the door. Should they deem you passable you would be allowed entrance into a special booth for already intoxicated spectators so as to not spoil the evening of civil boxing fans. Needless to say you would not be given an alcohol ticket.
BTW I'm not fascist, Gaz. Not in a traditional right-wing sense, anyway.
nulty
03-04-2009, 07:11 PM
The Security would assess you and your friends condition on the door. Should they deem you passable you would be allowed entrance into a special booth for already intoxicated spectators so as to not spoil the evening of civil boxing fans. Needless to say you would not be given an alcohol ticket.
BTW I'm not fascist, Gaz. Not in a traditional right-wing sense, anyway.
Sure. I hope you're joking Adolf.
dan-b
03-05-2009, 05:25 AM
Thats one of the problems, some of the same people who complain that theres not enough boxing on TV or in the papers are the first turn their noses up when a boxer gets a little to popular with the mainstream auduence. Its like they're trying earn credibility points as a hardcore fan.
You know, like when teenagers give it the "Oh, they've sold out now. Their first album was SO much better than their new stuff...."
Did Coldplay ever claim to be the best p4p band in the world?:think
GazOC
03-05-2009, 10:08 AM
Did Coldplay ever claim to be the best p4p band in the world?:think
Coldplay = Nikolai Valuev.
Agreed. Coldplay and Muse suck.
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