what if foreman had back off of ali every time he roped?

[lightning333]

I have often pondered myself how differently the foreman and ali fight would have turned out if George had understood what ali was doing on the ropes and literally stepped back to the middle of the ring every time ali was on the ropes, forcing him to come out and fight. if foreman had realized this tactic and not hit ali when he was on the ropes, would foreman have won?

[lefthook31]

I believe Foreman was more mentally beaten than physically. Ali did a mental work of art on Foreman, and by mid round of the fight, had Foreman believing that there was no way he could win. Foreman was looking for a way out of the fight and he took it.

[nervousxtian]

Foreman would of won if that was the case, but it isn't the case because Foreman believed he was unbeatable, and nobody could take his punch.

I can't stand watching that fight though, because Ali cheated by using those ropes, and I know others were in on it.

[Boom_Boom]

Foreman was drugged, remember :D

[CUFreeze]

Ali vs Foreman in the middle of the ring? No contest...Ali would have boxed circles around him just like he was doing in the first round.

[nervousxtian]

Ali vs Foreman in the middle of the ring? No contest...Ali would have boxed circles around him just like he was doing in the first round.

Foreman would of caught him. If the ropes were tighter, Foreman would of caught him there as well.

[buddynabuick]

Foreman would of caught him. If the ropes were tighter, Foreman would of caught him there as well.


:lol:yea, those were some loose ass ropes

[Azriel]

Yeah, he paid someone to loosen the ropes...:patsch

[hobgoblin]

The greatest reason for Ali winning was not the ropes IMO but Ali's fast hands + long reach = awesome right hand lead. That that with Foreman's RELATIVELY slow reflexes + habit of keeping his hands down and you have Ali landing enough right hands to stagger Foreman, which is what he did in the centre of ring at the opening if you see it again at youtube. The ropes provided Ali with some rest and helped to tire Foreman - but that was much secondary to the greatest reason for beating Foreman.

If Foreman did that (I think it was Ellis and Quarry who had a similar case) then a US crowd would have booed Ali. Ali would come in the centre and use his right hand lead to win. This time he wouldn't have as many breaks so he'd be tested even MORE (and I think he'd pull off the magic) and Foreman wouldn't tire as quickly but ultimately would get nailed - so Ali wins a little later.

I do think Ali would trick Foreman into the ropes anyway. Any version of Ali before 1976 IMO beats Foreman. People say Ali beat Foreman mentally - true, but let's not get carried away it did not significantly affect the BOXING in the ring IMO (it affected Foreman personally etc) but in the RING was Foreman was still laying his heavy dynamites and Ai still had a good night's work to win the fight. It isn't like you could have put Joe Frazier in place of Ali that night (so beaten George was even BEFORE the bell) and Foreman would lose!

[lefthook31]

The greatest reason for Ali winning was not the ropes IMO but Ali's fast hands + long reach = awesome right hand lead. That that with Foreman's RELATIVELY slow reflexes + habit of keeping his hands down and you have Ali landing enough right hands to stagger Foreman, which is what he did in the centre of ring at the opening if you see it again at youtube. The ropes provided Ali with some rest and helped to tire Foreman - but that was much secondary to the greatest reason for beating Foreman.

If Foreman did that (I think it was Ellis and Quarry who had a similar case) then a US crowd would have booed Ali. Ali would come in the centre and use his right hand lead to win. This time he wouldn't have as many breaks so he'd be tested even MORE (and I think he'd pull off the magic) and Foreman wouldn't tire as quickly but ultimately would get nailed - so Ali wins a little later.

I do think Ali would trick Foreman into the ropes anyway. Any version of Ali before 1976 IMO beats Foreman. People say Ali beat Foreman mentally - true, but let's not get carried away it did not significantly affect the BOXING in the ring IMO (it affected Foreman personally etc) but in the RING was Foreman was still laying his heavy dynamites and Ai still had a good night's work to win the fight. It isn't like you could have put Joe Frazier in place of Ali that night (so beaten George was even BEFORE the bell) and Foreman would lose!

Didnt Foreman win pretty much every round leading up to the stoppage.??

[nervousxtian]

The ropes were looser than an Atlantic City whore.

[TBooze]

Didnt Foreman win pretty much every round leading up to the stoppage.??

No

[lefthook31]

no non boxing fans that did not see the fight thought that ie YOU


Ali jabbed foreman silly in the middle all the time; slipped real well staggered him in round 5 FFS:patsch

BS, someone please produce a scorecard. The scorecard is not listed on box records.

[castle]

no non boxing fans that did not see the fight thought that ie YOU


Ali jabbed foreman silly in the middle all the time; slipped real well staggered him in round 5 FFS:patsch

Ali win most of the rounds :happy

By the way if you have a copy of the fight have a good look at Alis midriff its sitting well out as if hes a beer belly but after a couple of rounds its well sucked in and his abs start showing ,Ali must have started the fight with a gutful of water

[Jennifer Love Hewitt]

Foreman lost because he was tired.

If Foreman didn't waste his energy hitting Ali while he was covering up against the ropes, I think that he would have eventually caught Ali and clubbed him down. After 3 knockdowns, the ref would have stopped it.

The problem for Foreman in this fight was that up unitl this point, every one he hit, he destroyed. So he simply kept on swinging. He wasn't mentally beaten. If he was, he would have stopped swinging. The mental defeat came for Foreman after he taseted the canvass and lost his title.

[McGrain]

I have often pondered myself how differently the foreman and ali fight would have turned out if George had understood what ali was doing on the ropes and literally stepped back to the middle of the ring every time ali was on the ropes, forcing him to come out and fight. if foreman had realized this tactic and not hit ali when he was on the ropes, would foreman have won?

Ali would have won a wide points decision in this situation, I guess.

[McGrain]

Foreman would of won if that was the case, but it isn't the case because Foreman believed he was unbeatable, and nobody could take his punch.

Interesting. Why? The only exchanges Foreman won were the ones on the ropes.

[McGrain]

Instead looking for scorecards. everthing I say is true. did you actually watch the fight in full? be honest:lol:

It's possible to score every round for Ali, though that's not how I have it.

John Thomas produced three scorecards on Classics a few days ago and all were for Ali, one had every round for him.

[lefthook31]

Why not adress one of my points.

Instead looking for scorecards. everthing I say is true. did you actually watch the fight in full? be honest:lol:

Yes, I have watched the fight, saw When were kings in the theater, its just been a long long time. I just remember Foreman beating on Ali. Foreman was tired, but also had the bully sydrome that was crushed by Ali, and led to the stoppage.

[lefthook31]

the docs do not show the story of this IMO

It must have been quite a time since you saw it, I have it in memory I saw it so much:lol:

non boxing press created the myth on this fite:good

My interest in boxing started in the mid 80's. I can pretty much tell you round for round every fight from 1986 on in all weight divisions. I have watched some of the older fights before that, but not many of them. Its been a while since I saw that fight yes..

[anut]

foreman would have won......but ali outsmarted him...:smoke:smoke:smoke

[hobgoblin]

Didnt Foreman win pretty much every round leading up to the stoppage.??

I recall maybe 2 or 3 (tops) rounds in the fight where a case could be made for Foreman. The rest were all Ali. Some could legitimately say all 8 rounds for Ali. This is actually my favorite fight of all time - even more fun is the pre fight hype. See it again.

Foreman lost because he was tired.

If Foreman didn't waste his energy hitting Ali while he was covering up against the ropes, I think that he would have eventually caught Ali and clubbed him down. After 3 knockdowns, the ref would have stopped it.

No way. If this is true - then why didn't Foreman catch Ali in the first three rounds when he wasn't so tired? Because it isn't that Foreman kept hitting Ali, got tired, and then Ali took over. It is that Ali's right hand lead was staggering and beating him and knocked him DOWN. He was tired to get up from it. Exhaustion certainly played a role - only an auxiliary role though.

eventually caught Ali and clubbed him down. After 3 knockdowns, the ref would have stopped it.

Much easier said than done - especially with Ali who was never close to that situation despite facing many punchers of Foreman's caliber - some whom one could argue even better than 24 year old Foreman. Ali is too resilient has too much heart has too fast & long arms , too ACCURATE - Foreman would have been outfought.

The mental defeat came for Foreman after he taseted the canvass and lost his title.

Exactly -couldn't have said it better myself.

[trac209]

:lol:yea, those were some loose ass ropesMight as well gave ali a chair

[Illmatic]

Foreman was outclassed in every way and wouldve been knocked out regardless. The whole ropeadope is so misconstrued. Ali wasnt just leaning on the ropes taking a beating like Rocky Balboa...he was countering and parrying Foreman to PERFECTION. He made Foreman look like a caveman swinging a club, and if I remember correctly, had Foreman just winning one round in that fight.

[Illmatic]

Foreman lost because he was tired.


No, Foreman lost b/c he was slow. Foreman was outclassed in the early rounds as well. Ali backed up, caught and parried his slow punches and countered him to death.

[Decker]

Might as well gave ali a chair Not much of a stretch. :rofl This is one reason why I consider this fight a semi fix. The ropes were ridiculously loose to help Ali's rope a dope tatcics. It's no big secret that due to the too loose ropes, Ali's body was not only farther away from GF punches, but his body was more sloped - about 45 degrees. It's the same principle of using sloped armor for a tank to deflect incoming shots. Foreman's puches had much less of an impact on Ali's body. Why did Ali need this kind of help? Also the ref was in Ali's corner. I doubt it took much $ from DK to buy him off. Ali had GF in headlocks during that fight. Yes, Ali was quicker. So he could pop GF w/the jab and when GF tried to close Ali would tie him up w/the clinch. If only Wlad had Ali's skills in that area, especially earlier in his career. :yep And GF didn't exactly execute the smartest fight.

Foreman was outclassed in every way and wouldve been knocked out regardless. Baloney. You're being affected by the crowd that was almost 100% behind Ali in Africa. The crowd would have an orgasm everytime Ali half connected with a jab. Poor George must have thought he was taking on eveybody that nite. After wasting so much energy on punches that had much less effect due to the the loose ropes, he was ready to go when Ali tagged him later on. The same guy who destroyed Frazier & Norton (who Ali struggled mightily with in all 6 fights), gets stopped by the "power" punching Ali. Yeah, styles blah blah. And Ali never wanted to give GF a rematch. Lets see a GF-Ali fight w/legit ropes, a neutral ref, in the US were GF would have some support. Maybe Ali would win, but the outcome would be much harder if not different.
And hasn't GF recently stated that he thought he was sick or slightly poisoned before the fight? Maybe sour grapes but stranger things have happended.

But he didnt Is this an indication that you're not a fan of "what ifs"? They're popular, but you can what if anything to get the result you're looking for.