Greatest Featherweights: 1990-2009?

[El Cepillo]

I'd be interested to know if there is any consensus on who exactly the best Featherweights have been over the last 20 or so years?

And in particular, where does Naseem Hamed fit into the equation? Top 20? Top 10, Top 5? How about #1?

By "greatest" I'm talking about all the regular criteria that should be taken into consideration; natural skill, learned talent, resume, H2H ability, achivements, legacy etc.

[Bill Butcher]

Top 5....

1. Morales
2. Barrera
3. Marquez
4. Pacquiao
5. Hamed

All achievements n shit of each guy at this weight are great but I think if you matched the best 126 lb versions of each guy against each other, Morales & Barrera would win most times, likely beating the other 3.... Erik is no1 because he clearly won the actual 126 lb encounter vs Barrera IMO.

Id have no problem backing a prime Morales against any of those guys, even tho they are all great fighters too.

[Addie]

Top 5....

1. Morales
2. Barrera
3. Marquez
4. Pacquiao
5. Hamed

All achievements n shit of each guy at this weight are great but I think if you matched the best 126 lb versions of each guy against each other, Morales & Barrera would win most times, likely beating the other 3.... Erik is no1 because he clearly won the actual 126 lb encounter vs Barrera clearly IMO.

Id have no problem backing a prime Morales against any of those guys, even tho they are all great fighters too.

Barrera deserves top spot because he had the superior resume at 126lb, and whether your like it or not, did get the verdict. The whole thing about it being a clear Morales win is a myth. Barrera wasn't very effective in the first 5 rounds, but guess what? Neither was Erik. Fighter could have gone either way, just like the first fight.

1. Barrera
2. Morales
3. Marquez
4. Pacquiao
5. Hamed

[El Cepillo]

Top 5....

1. Morales
2. Barrera
3. Marquez
4. Pacquiao
5. Hamed

All achievements n shit of each guy at this weight are great but I think if you matched the best 126 lb versions of each guy against each other, Morales & Barrera would win most times, likely beating the other 3.... Erik is no1 because he clearly won the actual 126 lb encounter vs Barrera IMO.

Id have no problem backing a prime Morales against any of those guys, even tho they are all great fighters too.

Do you think Pacquaio and Marquez have achived more at Featherweight, or do you put them above Hamed mostly because you think they are just better fighters?

[Addie]

Do you think Pacquaio and Marquez have achived more at Faetherweight, or do you put them above Hamed mostly because you think they are just better fighters?

I was actually thinking Hamed deserves third spot based on his success there before the Barrera fight. I put the two above him because I think they are better fighters, though.

[El Cepillo]

I was actually thinking Hamed deserves third spot based on his success there before the Barrera fight. I put the two above him because I think they are better fighters, though.

Yeah, I don't know the details of Pac and JMM's careers at Featherweight at this point so I can't really give an opinion, but Hamed, despite what some people say, did achive a lot. Its good that he is considered in such a strong group of fighters. Also, I'm wondering about the period 1990-1995....would we be looking at guys like Tom Johnson and Kevin Kelley for the main men during those years? :think

Great avatar btw.

[Addie]

Yeah, I don't know the details of Pac and JMM's careers at Featherweight at this point so I can't really give an opinion, but Hamed, despite what some people say, did achive a lot. Its good that he is considered in such a strong group of fighters. Also, I'm wondering about the period 1990-1995....would we be looking at guys like Tom Johnson and Kevin Kelley for the main men during those years? :think

Great avatar btw.

I think so yes, and I know Hamed had wins over both of them.

I think you have to give Barrera top spot WITH his wins at 126. Morales, Hamed, Kelley, and Ayala. Two wins against guys in the top 5 at their very best. I know you'll disagree with that, though.

Pacquiao had a win over Barrera and a draw over Marquez, and although the Barrera win was probably the best out of all the guys on the list, he still didn't do enough work at 126 to be at the top.

[El Cepillo]

:p

[El Cepillo]

Well, my first thread in the classic forum has been a resounding success :rofl

[Flea Man]

1. Barrera
2. Hamed
3. Pac
4. Morales
5. JMM

H2H (at FW) I'd say Prime Hamed would be a handful for any of these guys, though Pac beat Barrera and who knows how the more defensively minded Marquez would've got on against Morales and Barrera at 126???

Very, very close to call I'm afraid, but on resume alone (and considering when Pac beat Morales, although the Barrera win was awesome obviously) I'm going for this listing.

However, I'd have no problems with it being changed around, although Marquez should probably be in last place. His legacy is more defined now he has moved up and beaten top competition.

[asero]

he had only 8 fight at 126, morales two biggest fight at 126 were chi and barrera...
i say pacquiao has the best impact that that division. beating a prime #3p4p...


it's not 100% achievement, overall skill must also be given consideration. Pac KO's MAB something that EM never did at 126

[Flea Man]

he had only 8 fight at 126, morales two biggest fight at 126 were chi and barrera...
i say pacquiao has the best impact that that division. beating a prime #3p4p...


it's not 100% achievement, overall skill must also be given consideration. Pac KO's MAB something that EM never did at 126

But Barrera's win over the undefeated, no.1 puncher P4P is just as good IMO.

And you could argue that Hamed had slipped by that point. Hamed beat Tom Johnson (long-reigning IBF champ) and Kevin Kelley way before those guys were on the FW scene.

Hamed doesn't measure well when placed in the early 00's, but did a lot at FW beforehand, destroying most guys and decisioning the useful Wayne McCullough. H2H he ranks well due to his power.

Pac's win over Barrera is tied for me with Barrera's win over Hamed. Morales beat Pac, but famously denied Pac the use of Reyes gloves, which may have hampered Pac's chances. By the time Pac beat Morales, he had lost to Raheem. Marquez's best performance was probably in the Draw against Pac, but he had a decent career leading up to it.

See, there are a lot of variables in resume, so I put Barrera at no.1. Two wins over Morales, win over Hamed, and although stopped by Pac, no disgrace there.

[asero]

But Barrera's win over the undefeated, no.1 puncher P4P is just as good IMO.

And you could argue that Hamed had slipped by that point. Hamed beat Tom Johnson (long-reigning IBF champ) and Kevin Kelley way before those guys were on the FW scene.

Hamed doesn't measure well when placed in the early 00's, but did a lot at FW beforehand, destroying most guys and decisioning the useful Wayne McCullough. H2H he ranks well due to his power.

Pac's win over Barrera is tied for me with Barrera's win over Hamed. Morales beat Pac, but famously denied Pac the use of Reyes gloves, which may have hampered Pac's chances. By the time Pac beat Morales, he had lost to Raheem. Marquez's best performance was probably in the Draw against Pac, but he had a decent career leading up to it.

See, there are a lot of variables in resume, so I put Barrera at no.1. Two wins over Morales, win over Hamed, and although stopped by Pac, no disgrace there.

but would you agree that Pac is the best featherweight H2H (last 20 years)? and i guess being the best fighter h2h means that fighter is the best in terms of talent and skill...

[Flea Man]

but would you agree that Pac is the best featherweight H2H (last 20 years)? and i guess being the best fighter h2h means that fighter is the best in terms of talent and skill...

Not sure about the last 20 years, possibly.

But no. If a fighter has an iron chin and great punching power, he might be fantastic H2H (i.e Chavez at 135/140) doesn't mean he's the most skillful (although any top fighter is talented, Hell, even urango has talent :lol: even if it isn't slick boxing ability)

Maybe Pac is the best H2H in the last 20 years, though the Barrera that fought Hamed might very well be. Who knows, they're all closely matched. I just think Hamed is underrated now, people think he was a complete joke up until the Barrera fight, then he got 'exposed' and we can forget about what he achieved up to then.

[PowerPuncher]

Hamed and MAB achieved the most, Hamed unified all the belts to become Lineal Champ, beating everyone from '95-'01. MAB beat him and scored some descent wins, Morales didn't do much at 126 and lost to MAB

Pacquaio has 1 win albeit a great 1, Marquez's best result was a draw, he lost to Norwood and Chris John and what was his best win?? Old Medina?

[asero]

Not sure about the last 20 years, possibly.

But no. If a fighter has an iron chin and great punching power, he might be fantastic H2H (i.e Chavez at 135/140) doesn't mean he's the most skillful (although any top fighter is talented, Hell, even urango has talent :lol: even if it isn't slick boxing ability)

Maybe Pac is the best H2H in the last 20 years, though the Barrera that fought Hamed might very well be. Who knows, they're all closely matched. I just think Hamed is underrated now, people think he was a complete joke up until the Barrera fight, then he got 'exposed' and we can forget about what he achieved up to then.


so having a great chin and strong power is not part of a skill of a fighter...My definition of skill is the overall ability and not mere tactical in sense...

in a nutshell, i put 40% in overall ability and 60% in accomplishment...thus lennox lewis and mayweather rank high to me bec of their overall ability.

i believe that morales has the nice mix to both..barrera's overall ability is now questioned since he was KO's by Pac and only able to decision Hamed

[Flea Man]

so having a great chin and strong power is not part of a skill of a fighter...My definition of skill is the overall ability and not mere tactical in sense...

in a nutshell, i put 40% in overall ability and 60% in accomplishment...thus lennox lewis and mayweather rank high to me bec of their overall ability.

i believe that morales has the nice mix to both..barrera's overall ability is now questioned since he was KO's by Pac and only able to decision Hamed

Not stopping Hamed, who had an iron chin, is not bad at all.

Leis had a good resume AND great skills.

[El Cepillo]

so having a great chin and strong power is not part of a skill of a fighter...My definition of skill is the overall ability and not mere tactical in sense...

in a nutshell, i put 40% in overall ability and 60% in accomplishment...thus lennox lewis and mayweather rank high to me bec of their overall ability.

i believe that morales has the nice mix to both..barrera's overall ability is now questioned since he was KO's by Pac and only able to decision Hamed

Barrera is the only fighter that can say "I beat Naseem Hamed", Hamed had a solid chin, and from what I've seen, was never hurt in a fight, I think Barrera deserves the upmost credit for beating Hamed so convincingly, and I don't think the fact that it was on points, matters one single bit.

[Flea Man]

Barrera is the only fighter that can say "I beat Naseem Hamed", Hamed had a solid chin, and from what I've seen, was never hurt in a fight, I think Barrera deserves the upmost credit for beating Hamed so convincingly, and I don't think the fact that it was on points, matters one single bit.

:good


If anything, going up against a huge hitter like Hamed without the power to stop him, but still going the distance whilst avoiding his (by now telegraphed) shots and 'schooling' him over 12 is just as big an achievement as stopping someone.