'Hurricane' Carter

[TheGreatA]

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Impressive display of punching power.

[jowcol]

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Impressive display of punching power.

Obviously an impressive notch on Reuben's resume as is the Griffith dismantling (although Emile gave 15-20 pounds away among other particulars in that scrap)...if they had rematched?...no way anything close to a similar result IMO.

When I think of Carter I think of so many tough-ass middles circa 55-65 that were out there but lacked that ''something'' to get to the next level, Holly Mims..etc..

Have you seen the Tiger-Carter scrap? Interesting that Reuben's weakness was always trying to figure out slick boxer/counter boys (Joey?) whereas Tiger took him into the trenches and semi-kicked his arse (tho Rueben had his moments)

Fernandez-Tiger is out there to view as well. I've got it on tape but haven't watched it in a few years. Dick gradually wore him down and, I think, broke his nose badly which caused the stoppage.

I can vaguely remember seeing Florentino with my dad early 60's on the Friday nite fights. (I think we watched Griffith/Paret 3 live as well but no one knew what had happened that nite)

My $0.02

[TheGreatA]

Obviously an impressive notch on Reuben's resume as is the Griffith dismantling (although Emile gave 15-20 pounds away among other particulars in that scrap)...if they had rematched?...no way anything close to a similar result IMO.

When I think of Carter I think of so many tough-ass middles circa 55-65 that were out there but lacked that ''something'' to get to the next level, Holly Mims..etc..

Have you seen the Tiger-Carter scrap? Interesting that Reuben's weakness was always trying to figure out slick boxer/counter boys (Joey?) whereas Tiger took him into the trenches and semi-kicked his arse (tho Rueben had his moments)

Fernandez-Tiger is out there to view as well. I've got it on tape but haven't watched it in a few years. Dick gradually wore him down and, I think, broke his nose badly which caused the stoppage.

I can vaguely remember seeing Florentino with my dad early 60's on the Friday nite fights. (I think we watched Griffith/Paret 3 live as well but no one knew what had happened that nite)

My $0.02

This was probably the most impressive performance I saw of Rubin Carter.

Fernandez wasn't as great as Griffith but he was a natural, hard-hitting middleweight who was usually very durable (he had tough fights with Fullmer and Tiger). Carter crushed him inside the first round.

After losing to Carter, Fernandez went onto stop Jose Torres in five rounds.

I guess it could be said that Fernandez was made for Carter's power punching style. Tiger too fought in similar style but he was simply too good for Carter.

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Fernandez vs Tiger

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Fernandez vs Fullmer

[hhascup]

Obviously an impressive notch on Reuben's resume as is the Griffith dismantling (although Emile gave 15-20 pounds away among other particulars in that scrap)...if they had rematched?...no way anything close to a similar result IMO.

Emile Griffith 151½ lbs to Rubin Carter's 155, that's only 3½ lbs.

When I was a kid, I grew up in Paterson, New Jersey and I knew Carter pretty well. One day he went to the bowling lanes with a couple of his friends and he asked me to keep score. He was also a softball pitcher and when he saw me he use to asked me if I wanted to be the teams bat boy.

I also see Emile at the Ring 8 meetings in New York and he sits with me every month . He is such a nice guy and is very friendly as well. I have also introduced him many times at the fights and when I MC'ed boxing affairs.

[WhataRock]

I dont think Ruben could repeat that kind of results ever again against Griffith to be honest. Sounds like he got inside his head pre-fight.

Spectacular win nonetheless..I actually consider one of the best ever all things considered, to destroy a fighter like Emile is just amazing.

[Sonny Carson]

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Impressive display of punching power.
He also show'd good hand speed.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

...When I was a kid, I grew up in Paterson, New Jersey and I knew Carter pretty well. One day he went to the bowling lanes with a couple of his friends and he asked me to keep score. He was also a softball pitcher and when he saw me he use to asked me if I wanted to be the teams bat boy...

HHASCUP, is it fair to ask you your opinion on whether Carter was innocent or guilty of the murders at the Lafayette?

[mcvey]

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Impressive display of punching power.

I remember an old Ring interview with Carter, it showed him up on the roof with his pigeons[On The Water Front], he said he hit just as hard with either hand,seems he was right!Thanks for the memory:good

[Holmes' Jab]

Great clip. Has anyone read the book The Miraculous Journey, it's a sensational read.

[McGrain]

Obviously an impressive notch on Reuben's resume as is the Griffith dismantling (although Emile gave 15-20 pounds away among other particulars in that scrap)...if they had rematched?...no way anything close to a similar result IMO.


Griffith wrote that off as being "caught cold with a perfect punch" something that "wouldn't happen again". It didn't seem toworry him at all, and shortly there-after he start hunting Middleweights in earnest.

[McGrain]

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Fernandez vs Tiger


Love this fightl.

[mcvey]

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Impressive display of punching power.
Anyone notice the guy with the receding hair in Fernandez' corner looks a lot like Ferdie Pacheco?

[WhataRock]

Anyone notice the guy with the receding hair in Fernandez' corner looks a lot like Ferdie Pacheco?


I cant really tell but it wouldnt surprise me given Ferdie's association with Dundee.

[hhascup]

HHASCUP, is it fair to ask you your opinion on whether Carter was innocent or guilty of the murders at the Lafayette?

To tell you the truth, I went to the trial for a couple of days. It was a school assignment. I also knew of Artis.

In my opinion they were both guilty as could be.

Here's an interesting web site that has all the facts:

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[brixtonbeat]

To tell you the truth, I went to the trial for a couple of days. It was a school assignment. I also knew of Artis.

In my opinion they were both guilty as could be.

Here's an interesting web site that has all the facts:

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Thanks for the link. I briefly browsed the link. I would love to hear more about this issue from individuals who have reliable information or informed opinions.

[Sweet Pea]

Have you seen the Tiger-Carter scrap? Interesting that Reuben's weakness was always trying to figure out slick boxer/counter boys (Joey?) whereas Tiger took him into the trenches and semi-kicked his arse (tho Rueben had his moments)
I think this is more a testament to Tiger than a detriment to Carter. There weren't many fighters in the division's history that could win a fight with Tiger in the trenches. I think it just goes to show how tough Carter was to hang in there the full 10 after being so badly hurt in the second.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

[quote=hhascup;4228261]To tell you the truth, I went to the trial for a couple of days. It was a school assignment. I also knew of Artis. In my opinion they were both guilty as could be.

Here's an interesting web site that has all the facts:

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Thanks for your thoughts on what I've always found a fascinating case HHASCUP. There's also some debate taking place on it in the LOUNGE section at present.

I recently read everything contained on the website you offered in your post - and believe me that's one BIG read!

My interest has always been purely a case of did Carter commit the crime or not, and as I'm not a prosecutor or a juror, the onus of beyond reasonable doubt or any other other legal constraint, does not apply to my 'conclusion'.

I've read a wealth of information about this case over the years, and though I don't claim any level of expertise, in my humble opinion it's extremely likely Rubin Carter and John Artis commited the murders at the Lafayette Grill.

[hhascup]

[quote=hhascup;4228261]To tell you the truth, I went to the trial for a couple of days. It was a school assignment. I also knew of Artis. In my opinion they were both guilty as could be.

Here's an interesting web site that has all the facts:

[Only registered and activated users can see links] [/quote ([Only registered and activated users can see links])]

Thanks for your thoughts on what I've always found a fascinating case HHASCUP. There's also some debate taking place on it in the LOUNGE section at present.

I recently read everything contained on the website you offered in your post - and believe me that's one BIG read!

My interest has always been purely a case of did Carter commit the crime or not, and as I'm not a prosecutor or a juror, the onus of beyond reasonable doubt or any other other legal constraint, does not apply to my 'conclusion'.

I've read a wealth of information about this case over the years, and though I don't claim any level of expertise, in my humble opinion it's extremely likely Rubin Carter and John Artis commited the murders at the Lafayette Grill.

I lived just a few blocks away from the Lafayette Grill and I was a BIG fan of Carter because he treated me pretty good. He use to pitch on a softball team and when he saw me he would say, hey kid, do you want to be our batboy.

With that said, I truly believe he and Artis did the murders. I know several people that were very close friend with the police captain and they all stated that he was a very fair and honest guy.

I also read the web site many times, as it was up-dated several times. I once printed out all the information and it came out to over 500 pages, BUT it's a very good read.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

[quote=COULDHAVEBEEN;4232497]

I lived just a few blocks away from the Lafayette Grill and I was a BIG fan of Carter because he treated me pretty good.....With that said, I truly believe he and Artis did the murders. I know several people that were very close friend with the police captain and they all stated that he was a very fair and honest guy...

There's a great thread on the Hurricane issue on another forum (see shortcut below).

In it there's an excellent post from Ronald Lipton who was an investigator with the Hudson County Prosecutor's Office from 1971-76, and went with Ali to bail Carter out of prison in 1976. Amongst other things Lipton covers the Joey G's settlement of $350,000 from the movie.

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[fatcity]

I have made my case in the general forum.In my opinion Carter and Artis were guilty as charged.Throw away the "fictional" account of the movie and book and look at the FACTS which were entered into the actual court case under the laws of the land at that time.
That people question the actual witnesses character profiles,remember that Carter and Artis were no angels either and were well known to police at the time.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

I have made my case in the general forum.In my opinion Carter and Artis were guilty as charged.Throw away the "fictional" account of the movie and book and look at the FACTS which were entered into the actual court case under the laws of the land at that time.
That people question the actual witnesses character profiles,remember that Carter and Artis were no angels either and were well known to police at the time.

Agreed FATCITY.

What Ronald Lipton has to say is interesting reading. Not sure if you know of him, but from what I've read:

Started out as a homeless young guy who hung out at boxing gyms.
Befriended Carter and became a sparring partner.
Had plenty of amateur fights and later became a referee.
Became a cop and served for about 6 years.
Helped Carter by involving Ali, and the two went and posted bail for him.
Lipton received a lot of flack for helping Carter and claims it cost him his career and home.
After Carter was released Lipton claims Carter didn't want to know him.

Lipton comes across as extremely bitter. Claims he did everything he could for Carter over a period of years and played a big part in getting Carter out. But now that Carter is free, driving a Merc and cashed up he doesn't want to know Lipton.

Who knows? But it's not a positive score for Carter.