HBO to Abraham: Step up to 168 and fight Miranda...

[Tom_Tocca]

...then take on the winner of Pavlik - Taylor.

This is reported by a German newspaper, though AA wants to be undisputed champ at middleweight.
So we could well see his first outing on HBO vs. Miranda at 168, then fighting Pavlik at 160 if he gets by Taylor.

Or Taylor will fight Abraham at 168 if both are successful in their next respective bouts.

[Axe]

Don't think Abraham goes for this, his promoter isn't exactly a known risk taker.

[Tom_Tocca]

Don't think Abraham goes for this, his promoter isn't exactly a known risk taker.

Sauerland already wanted Miranda for last Saturday night being the mandatory but he lost via hard KO against Pavlik. He already had reserved a 20.000 people filling stadium for this event.
I think Sauerland would take this chance if Miranda wins his October bout.

[Axe]

Sauerland already wanted Miranda for last Saturday night being the mandatory but he lost via hard KO against Pavlik. He already had reserved a 20.000 people filling stadium for this event.
I think Sauerland would take this chance if Miranda wins his October bout.

I meant a fight against the Taylor-Pavlik winner. Abraham has of course already met Miranda, and now that Edison has been brutally KOed I'm sure Sauerland wouldn't object to a rematch.

[Maxime]

How can Miranda still be the IBF mandatory:

1- He fought a WBC title eliminator.
2- He got KO in his last fight.

It makes no sense.

[Lampley]

How can Miranda still be the IBF mandatory:

1- He fought a WBC title eliminator.
2- He got KO in his last fight.

It makes no sense.
HBO isn't thinking about mandatories. They want the Miranda/Abraham fight at 168 because Miranda won't fight at 160 anymore, and it would give AA a chance to showcase his skills in advance of a showdown against the winner of Taylor/Pavlik.

Given that there's not much else at 160, I think he ought to do it. HBO money is where it's at, and he has a style that American fans (and thus HBO) will like.

The Miranda fight should be easier than last time.

[Tom_Tocca]

How can Miranda still be the IBF mandatory:

1- He fought a WBC title eliminator.
2- He got KO in his last fight.

It makes no sense.

This info hails back to the time before Miranda fought Pavlik...he was the IBF mandaory at this ime, hus he would have been in Pavlik's place now and had rather fought Taylor...

[curmudgeon]

The Miranda fight should be easier than last time.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how well he carries power into 168. Miranda will be a tad more difficult to hold off at 168 for him - AA is not a big MW.

[Lampley]

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how well he carries power into 168. Miranda will be a tad more difficult to hold off at 168 for him - AA is not a big MW.

True, but Miranda strikes me as an "I'm invincible" kind of fighter, and those guys (Tyson, Lacy, Mugabi, Vargas, et al) never seem the same after they get KOd. Hope I'm wrong, though. I like Edison.

[dwilson]

AA is a smallish middle so a step up to 168 would be stupid. I still think he has the beating of Miranda but surely there must be some other american middle out there for HBO to showcase his talent against? If not then the point in fighting over there is of little importance to him.

[JC2006]

Miranda has done NOTHING to warrant a title shot at Abraham.

[Tom_Tocca]

Miranda has done NOTHING to warrant a title shot at Abraham.
The figh would be at 168 where Abraham isn't holding a belt at all...

[JC2006]

The figh would be at 168 where Abraham isn't holding a belt at all...

True. Still though... I'd rather see Abraham take on the winner of Taylor/Pavlik first.

[brooklyn1550]

I'd rather see Abraham vs. the winner of Taylor/Pavlik

[Tom_Tocca]

True. Still though... I'd rather see Abraham take on the winner of Taylor/Pavlik first.

Me too, but HBO wants to introduce/test him first before warranting a fight vs. their top-guy...

[Lampley]

Me too, but HBO wants to introduce/test him first before warranting a fight vs. their top-guy...

Exactly. Just look at what Calzaghe and Kessler had to do before HBO would pony up the dollars to make their fight. Abraham doesn't get to hang out in Germany and then collect a huge HBO payday.

[compukiller]

He should fight Winky Wright.

[Tom_Tocca]

He earns as much right now in Germany.

Forget it. Abraham merely got $650k for his fight vs. Gevor and this was his biggest purse to date.
With such entertaining fights to be seen on HBO he could easily triple his fight purse...

[psychopath]

HBO to Abraham: Step up to 168 and fight Miranda...

For what? So that HBO will earn $$$$$? :patsch

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If there's anything that ABraham needs to do . . . it's to try to unify the middle weight titles.

[Hrak]

If there's anything that ABraham needs to do . . . it's to try to unify the middle weight titles.
I agree. It would be stupid for him to move up to SM right now. The undisputed middleweight crown is much more coveted and thats what he should be aiming towards. Lets hope Pavlik wins his bout against Taylor so we can see a quality unification bout between the two.

** I think Corey Spinks would be a good HBO Showcase fight for AA, since he did so well against Taylor. Also Spinks is a very skilled boxer, which will allow Abraham to show his depth or lack there of.

[paulfv]

I'd much rather see Abraham fight the winner of Taylor-Pavlik than Miranda, although I do think Miranda deserves a rematch.

If they fight again, AA is going to have to hope his jaw and face don't end up looking like a guy who's head was stuck in a bee's nest for about 10 minutes, as the case was last time he fought Miranda.

[Scar]

Move up to fight someone he already beat with a broken jaw?, why?
Abraham should stay where he is, fight one more fight and if he wins he goes for Pavlik-Taylor winner. Mirands can create excuses over and over about why he got knocked out and no one really cares, put Miranda in there against either Kessler or Calzaghe and the next excuse will be that he belongs at Middleweight or Heavyweight.

[Toney]

I would love to see Abraham against "Idi" Amin Asikainen.

[Jinx]

Abraham would be dumb to take that move...go up to 168 for a guy you've already beaten, when you're already in-line for the Taylor/Pavlik winner? sounds like a risk, a dumb one...

[aillmatic]

How about if he fights the winner of Ouma / Mora or Ike Quartey for HBO's introduction?

[sean]

Exactly. Just look at what Calzaghe and Kessler had to do before HBO would pony up the dollars to make their fight. Abraham doesn't get to hang out in Germany and then collect a huge HBO payday.


have HBO come up with any money for the calzaghe v kessler fight ?

as far as i understand it, HBO have not.

i looked at HBO`s boxing website and there is no mention of calzaghe v kessler.

mayweather v hatton is mentioned for december, but i am guessing HBO and ****** are still wrangling over money.

[Orang-Utan Jim]

Why HBO forces Abraham to 168? Why can´t AA and Miranda fight in 160? Miranda ever fought in 160?

Only because Miranda wants to move up, all the others have to follow him? Bullshit! Miranda is the one who wants something from Abraham not vice versa....

[CASH_718]

Abraham vs Sturm

[boxeo#1]

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how well he carries power into 168. Miranda will be a tad more difficult to hold off at 168 for him - AA is not a big MW.

You really think that? Because I thought he was just huge last saturday:yikes Or maybe because his opponent was so small:huh
AA looked very muscular, maybe even a bit to much

[boxeo#1]

I would love to see Abraham against "Idi" Amin Asikainen.

:huh did he look good in your eyes in his last fight? AA would destroy him man, way to strong for idi

[Grabonator]

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how well he carries power into 168. Miranda will be a tad more difficult to hold off at 168 for him - AA is not a big MW.

Abraham is a BIG middleweight, believe me!! At fight night he weighs about 170 pounds. Miranda, Abraham, pavlick and Taylor are all verry big middleweight and all have to move up some day.

[Carlos Primera]

Abraham is a BIG middleweight, believe me!! At fight night he weighs about 170 pounds. Miranda, Abraham, pavlick and Taylor are all verry big middleweight and all have to move up some day.
yeah i agree abraham is a heavily built MW and could easily move north to 168. infact he should join miranda, taylor and maybe pavlik in the future up there to make 168 the deepest division.

[marauder1999]

Miranda doesnt deserve the shot. This is exactly the reason why boxing gets a bad rap sometimes from fans.

[Artani]

I have another news that Abraham will fight next fight in the USA and same Sturm will fight in the USA if he wins with Griffin. The fight betwen Abraham and Sturm can happen in the next summer in the Germany and HBO is interesting to give this match up and to continue with winner of them .
This i heard exactly from Felix Sturm.

[Brickhaus]

Miranda has done NOTHING to warrant a title shot at Abraham.

Other than TKOing Abraham in the 5th round in their first fight :nut

They're not asking for the fight because he deserves a shot, they're asking for it because they're drama behind it (AA knocking the snot out of the guy who broke his jaw) and because Miranda has name recognition in the US, something the other middleweight contenders don't have. AA handed Miranda's ass to him in the first fight (other than the minute long delay that should have been either a TKO or no delay outside of horrible refereeing), so I don't see how an extra 8 pounds makes a huge difference.

[Tom_Tocca]

Hey Artani, sounds like wishful thinking by Sturm - but who knows about HBOs plans except HBO...

[the_what]

Miranda doesnt deserve the shot. This is exactly the reason why boxing gets a bad rap sometimes from fans.

A shot at what exactly? Abraham holds a belt. But he is not the champion. In the end he is still just a contender towards Taylor's belt.

[Grabonator]

First of all Miranda will fight at 168 on late Oktober, i hope he fights something decent. Abraham should stay at middleweight for another year and at least win another belt at middleweight and after that move up too. I hope Pavlick wins against Taylor, cause Pavlick wants to stay at middleweight for a few fights as well so Abraham could fight him and the winner of this would be a huge star since Pavlick already had beaten Taylor.

[Tom_Tocca]

A shot at what exactly? Abraham holds a belt. But he is not the champion. In the end he is still just a contender towards Taylor's belt.

And even a belt wouldn't be at the line - AA is a belt holder at 160.

[Lampley]

have HBO come up with any money for the calzaghe v kessler fight ?

as far as i understand it, HBO have not.

i looked at HBO`s boxing website and there is no mention of calzaghe v kessler.

mayweather v hatton is mentioned for december, but i am guessing HBO and ****** are still wrangling over money.

From what I'd read, HBO's commitment to the fight is what ultimately made it happen, as well as the time placement at such an odd hour in Wales (to match up with primetime USA TV). I think I read somewhere too that the agreement hadn't been formalized but was agreed upon in principle, with the parties still haggling over minor particulars.

Very well could be wrong, though.

[Lampley]

He earns as much right now in Germany.

Abraham has no chance of becoming an international superstar if he stays in Germany.

HBO wants him to take on a marquee fight to set up a showdown against the Taylor/Pavlik winner, and who better than Miranda to do that against? Sturm hasn't been a willing playmate with HBO (turning down a Taylor fight), and who else is out there with any name recognition at all?

[sonny73]

Other than TKOing Abraham in the 5th round in their first fight :nut

They're not asking for the fight because he deserves a shot, they're asking for it because they're drama behind it (AA knocking the snot out of the guy who broke his jaw) and because Miranda has name recognition in the US, something the other middleweight contenders don't have. AA handed Miranda's ass to him in the first fight (other than the minute long delay that should have been either a TKO or no delay outside of horrible refereeing), so I don't see how an extra 8 pounds makes a huge difference.
yeah but why ask for it to be at 168?.Its just the money men trying to get the odds in favour of their cash cow as much as possible,same thing happened to Hatton when he wanted to fight in the States.If they win then they probably get like 90% of revenue for his future bouts

[BobDigi5060]

...then take on the winner of Pavlik - Taylor.

This is reported by a German newspaper, though AA wants to be undisputed champ at middleweight.
So we could well see his first outing on HBO vs. Miranda at 168, then fighting Pavlik at 160 if he gets by Taylor.

Or Taylor will fight Abraham at 168 if both are successful in their next respective bouts.

If HBO is really demanding him move up in weight then its terrible. He doesn't have to do shit. Let him be.

[Lampley]

Right, he won´t become an international superstar but there are other fighters who he could fight instead of Miranda at 160. Why should he move up? A fight against Miranda would be okay but at 160 where AA belongs.

I'd also prefer him to be able to stay at 160, and I agree he might be compromised moving up. But Miranda can't make 160 anymore (or so he says), and the gravitational pull of the division is moving up, anyway.

I wouldn't blame Abraham for refusing to move up, but the point is that HBO is trying to invest in him, and he's going to have to prove himself in a good fight first, before they offer up a huge sum for a fight against the undisputed champion.

Unfortunately, there's no one presently at 160 for AA to fight who offers much interest for HBO.

[Lampley]

If HBO is really demanding him move up in weight then its terrible. He doesn't have to do shit. Let him be.

You are correct. He doesn't have to take their money. He can continue to fight in Germany, or he can wait a bit longer and see what shakes loose. As long as he keeps winning, he'll eventually get his break.

On the other hand, he takes money out of his own pocket by rejecting HBO's overtures. You can make an argument either way, most of it boiling down to how much and how quickly AA wants to be a PfP great, how quickly he wants the big cash, what he's willing to risk (with either decision), and how long he wants to fight.

[Chillman]

Wouldn't a title fight against either the winner of Mora - Ouma or vs Giovanni Lorenzo be good enough for HBO Boxing After Dark?

[Tom_Tocca]

Wouldn't a title fight against either the winner of Mora - Ouma or vs Giovanni Lorenzo be good enough for HBO Boxing After Dark?

I already brought this up and yes, a fight vs. Mora would be the most clever thing to do for HBO, Abraham and Mora (of course, if he beats Ouma Sep.15).
It would be big in Cali, especially at Staple Center, LA - 20.000 people cheering them...

[PolishPummler]

HBO signed Miranda and he got dominated in his first fight.

They are trying to re-coop some money.

[Odo]

Don't think Abraham goes for this, his promoter isn't exactly a known risk taker.

Axe,my friend,I totally disagree with you on this one!

Abraham's promoter is Sauerland who is also Povetkin's promoter(who faced Larry Donald in his 13th pro fight) and Huck's promoter(who faced top ten fighter Tokarev in his 19th pro fight),and Janik's promoter(who faced El Hadak in his 5th pro fight),and Baysangurov's promoter(who faced Rubio in his 13th pro fight),and ........... .

[Brickhaus]

HBO signed Miranda and he got dominated in his first fight.

They are trying to re-coop some money.

HBO signed Miranda AFTER he got dominated by Abraham...

But there are still a lot of people who maintain that Miranda won that fight (because Randy Neumann basically cheated and gave Abraham extended time to recouperate after getting his jaw broken rather than declaring him unable to continue and calling a TKO). Still, I see no reason why the Miranda rematch would be any different than Klit-Brewster II. Abraham seems to be continuing to improve, while Miranda has stagnated and possibly even regressed; PLUS, Abraham solved Miranda relatively early in the fight, and should be able to take the early rounds this time as well.

Odo - I don't think that facing a top 10 fighter in your 19th fight when you have a solid amateur background is particularly risky. That's about on par with most fighters with a decent amateur background. None of those examples were particularly risky, just fairly aggressive. If he'd put in Povetkin against a veteran puncher, THAT would have been risky. Larry Donald wasn't, although it is indeed impressive that he can beat a fighter of Donald's caliber this early in his career.

[bumdujour]

what??? AA step UP to 168 for that retard miranda??

if miranda wants a shot at abraham, tell him to get his ass down to 160!!!

HBO my ass.

[Artani]

Hey Artani, sounds like wishful thinking by Sturm - but who knows about HBOs plans except HBO...

You are right Tom . But i think that Sturm was one fight in the USA when he fights Oscar De La Hoya and he is know for fans there. I still think that Sturmis one stap away to Abraham. AA was knows in this last fight and with Miranda for world boxing scene. For Sturm know more i think, Abraham is still unknows for americans.

It will be good to see this match betwen them and to knows who is best middleweight from Europe.

[Tom_Tocca]

Odo - I don't think that facing a top 10 fighter in your 19th fight when you have a solid amateur background is particularly risky. That's about on par with most fighters with a decent amateur background. None of those examples were particularly risky, just fairly aggressive. If he'd put in Povetkin against a veteran puncher, THAT would have been risky. Larry Donald wasn't, although it is indeed impressive that he can beat a fighter of Donald's caliber this early in his career.

As tobkhan said before, Huck had just little experience as an amateur - but - was already a kickbox-worldchampion just after his 18th birthday...he is just one of the thoughest and strongest cruiserweights out there...

[Tom_Tocca]

I think he will go far, win a belt or even two at cruiserweight and at age 26 or 27 step up to hw. Don´t know how he will make it there though.
If he will hang around at CW and keep winning for that long amount of time he will for sure be the undisputed CW champion - though I think he will move up in the next 2 years...

[C Money]

Going to 168 to get a shot at the 60 champ doesnt make sense.

That's over manipulation by HBO. Shit, let Abraham fight a Karmazin, Spinks, Ouma vs Mora winner, Sturm, or Quartey.

If Miranda's at 68 and cant make 60, that's HIS PROBLEM.

[El Bombasto]

...then take on the winner of Pavlik - Taylor.

This is reported by a German newspaper, though AA wants to be undisputed champ at middleweight.
So we could well see his first outing on HBO vs. Miranda at 168, then fighting Pavlik at 160 if he gets by Taylor.

Or Taylor will fight Abraham at 168 if both are successful in their next respective bouts.

Moving up to 168 to fight a guy he already beat does nothing for AA

[Lampley]

Moving up to 168 to fight a guy he already beat does nothing for AA

It gets him a payday, plus a shot at future, even bigger paydays.

I would understand if he didn't want to do it, but HBO's reasoning on this also makes sense. But perhaps the Mora/Ouma winner will become palatable for 2008, which I'm sure most of us would prefer.

[Tom_Tocca]

It gets him a payday, plus a shot at future, even bigger paydays.

I would understand if he didn't want to do it, but HBO's reasoning on this also makes sense. But perhaps the Mora/Ouma winner will become palatable for 2008, which I'm sure most of us would prefer.
I just wanted to ask you again about Mora if he would be victorious vs. Ouma...this fight would be a great chance for both fighters and as I mentioned before, Cali has the biggest Armenian community outside of Armenia, so it should make a great venue there (filling the Staple Center should be no problem).

[tpuz]

Pavlik vs Abraham to unify at 160 and Taylor vs Miranda at 168. Taylor and Miranda have already exchanged words before their last fights.

[41fever]

I wouldnt mind seeing a rematch, nut AA can fight someone descent @160 and Miranda can get a good 68 fighter

[Tom_Tocca]

Here's the exclusive interview with Arthur and Alexander Abraham I announced a few days back, enjoy...

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Odo]

HBO signed Miranda AFTER he got dominated by Abraham...

But there are still a lot of people who maintain that Miranda won that fight (because Randy Neumann basically cheated and gave Abraham extended time to recouperate after getting his jaw broken rather than declaring him unable to continue and calling a TKO). Still, I see no reason why the Miranda rematch would be any different than Klit-Brewster II. Abraham seems to be continuing to improve, while Miranda has stagnated and possibly even regressed; PLUS, Abraham solved Miranda relatively early in the fight, and should be able to take the early rounds this time as well.

Odo - I don't think that facing a top 10 fighter in your 19th fight when you have a solid amateur background is particularly risky. That's about on par with most fighters with a decent amateur background. None of those examples were particularly risky, just fairly aggressive. If he'd put in Povetkin against a veteran puncher, THAT would have been risky. Larry Donald wasn't, although it is indeed impressive that he can beat a fighter of Donald's caliber this early in his career.

Huck doesnt have a solid amateur background,brickhaus!
Have a look at Povetkin's fight record,and then tell me that he hasnt had some fairly risky fights early in his career.
You can hardly find a present heavy out there who has been matched as toughly as Povetkin.
Anyway! I dont want to argue the toss about this matter.My point was that Povetkin's promoter Sauerland does take a risk matching his boys quite toughly.Furthermore he doesnt hesitate to spend some bucks for a decent foe.This cant be said about a lot of other promoters-especially about German promoters.



As for Miranda vs Abraham I quite agree with you.
Miranda should have won by tko against Abraham.
He didnt,and the way he lost that fight inside the ring makes me think.The Columbian wasnt able to take out an seriously injured opponent.Quite the opposite it was the Armenian who seemed to the one who was more likely to end the fight by a big punch.Furthermore Abraham looked convincing and seemed to dominate the fight up to the point when Miranda broke his jaw.
I guess that without that injury Abraham would have stopped Miranda within the first 6-7 rounds.
I also think that Miranda is a bit overrated.Abraham would have never gone the full route against his last opponent Khoren Gevor if he had fought with a broken jaw and had been bleeding like a shot pig as he did against Miranda.
If Miranda wasnt able to finish off an severly injured Abraham how will he fare against a healthy Abraham?

[Brickhaus]

Huck doesnt have a solid amateur background,brickhaus!
Have a look at Povetkin's fight record,and then tell me that he hasnt had some fairly risky fights early in his career.
You can hardly find a present heavy out there who has been matched as toughly as Povetkin.
Anyway! I dont want to argue the toss about this matter.My point was that Povetkin's promoter Sauerland does take a risk matching his boys quite toughly.Furthermore he doesnt hesitate to spend some bucks for a decent foe.This cant be said about a lot of other promoters-especially about German promoters.



As for Miranda vs Abraham I quite agree with you.
Miranda should have won by tko against Abraham.
He didnt,and the way he lost that fight inside the ring makes me think.The Columbian wasnt able to take out an seriously injured opponent.Quite the opposite it was the Armenian who seemed to the one who was more likely to end the fight by a big punch.Furthermore Abraham looked convincing and seemed to dominate the fight up to the point when Miranda broke his jaw.
I guess that without that injury Abraham would have stopped Miranda within the first 6-7 rounds.
I also think that Miranda is a bit overrated.Abraham would have never gone the full route against his last opponent Khoren Gevor if he had fought with a broken jaw and had been bleeding like a shot pig as he did against Miranda.
If Miranda wasnt able to finish off an severly injured Abraham how will he fare against a healthy Abraham?

Why did you respond to my post twice? :lol:

As was pointed out, Huck was a champion at kickboxing and tae kwon do, so that counts as a pretty fair level of amateur experience. He didn't need to learn things that most fighters learn in their first 15 fights, like when to clinch and how to keep fighting when you've been rocked, and he already had good endurance. If you already have those things, then you can be moved quickly. I respect that they were moved quickly, I just don't think they were particularly risky paths, considering that they were already fairly polished prospects in certain respects.

I agree with you 100% on Miranda. Abraham would destroy Miranda in a rematch, which is all the more reason why a rematch would be good for his HBO debut. He'd pick apart a big name just as much as Pavlik did, and this time he won't have weight as an excuse, plus it would be a revenge match, and plenty of people would watch because they think Miranda is an exciting fighter (a myth - he's not boring, but he's not exciting either) and because Miranda is great at talking up a fight.

There aren't too many other guys in the 160 lb range who have the name recognition in the US that people would want to watch. Sure, he'd walk over Ouma, Mora or Manfredo as well, but I don't think people like to watch them as much as Miranda. Other guys in that range (other than Winky, Taylor, Pavlik and Calzaghe, each of whom is tied probably too big of a name for Abraham to fight his first time out in the US, because Abraham wouldn't be bringing enough to the table, and each of whom would be VERY dangerous to Abraham's spotless record) just aren't big names.

[Ramshall1]

props to HBO, they need to demand the better matchups more often. . . theyve done a great job with bouts like Pav-Miranda, Pav-Taylor, Cal-Kessler etc.

[Richel Hersisia]

that would be nonsense. abraham should fight the winner of Pavlik Taylor direct. Not a showcase fight at 168. Let vernon forrest come up to fight him or somethingoOr sergio Mora, if they want give him straight a fight with taylor/pavlik he should not go to 168 and throw his title away.

[Tom_Tocca]

that would be nonsense. abraham should fight the winner of Pavlik Taylor direct. Not a showcase fight at 168. Let vernon forrest come up to fight him or somethingoOr sergio Mora, if they want give him straight a fight with taylor/pavlik he should not go to 168 and throw his title away.

I hope for Mora to win against Ouma - it would be sweeter to see him lose via KO vs. AA than to lose a decision vs. Ouma...