what country is most fair to forgian boxers?

[ripcity]

Germany has devloped a reputation as a place where a forgian boxer needs a knockout when fighting a German boxer in order to win. I'm sure almost every country gives it's boxers an advantage in scoreing fights as well.
Are there countrys that seem to give all boxers a equal chance on the score cards. Is there a place that has the opisit repuation as Germany?

[andyZOR]

Poland is fair latley. I remember when a World Class Fighter like [Matt]Zegan fought some unknown Mexican guy who fights to get food on his table, in Poland, Katowice. Zegan lost all but 1 round on my scorecard. Some rounds were close, but I favored the Mexican the most in situations and rounds. Then i felt bad for the Mexican guy couse I knew he won the fight, but the judges would fuck him over in the ass. He won a UD. I was happy for the guy really. Poland is increasing.

[Amsterdam]

Japan, few and far between when a robbery happens there.

[la-califa]

Canada. Never really heard of a hometown decision in Canada. The scoring in the Leonard- Duran I fight was dead on.

[Thread Stealer]

Canada. Never really heard of a hometown decision in Canada. The scoring in the Leonard- Duran I fight was dead on.

I beg to differ.

3-2-10 is a pretty ridiculous scorecard.

Pick a winner, damn.

[MSTR]

Australia... We don't have enough major fights here for anyone to prove otherwise!

[BobDigi5060]

Why not the USA? I wouldn't call the DLH/Trinidad decision fair but Tito is definently not from here.

[la-califa]

I've heard of a couple of Mexican fighters who have been jobbed against local Japanese Champions.

[la-califa]

Why not the USA? I wouldn't call the DLH/Trinidad decision fair but Tito is definently not from here.
Yeah, If Vegas wasn't considered part of the USA. More robberies in Vegas than I care to remember...

[PR Boxing Lore]

Puerto Rico,has a great reputation.

[Seamus]

Perhaps the Land of Forgiana?

[la-califa]

Puerto Rico,has a great reputation.
That is very true. I think Puerto Rican fighters get a better break in Madison Square Garden, Than in Puerto Rico!

[theunderdog]

I've heard of a couple of Mexican fighters who have been jobbed against local Japanese Champions.

that's true. many asian countries get exports to feed to their prospects. they feel that having foreign fighters makes it more appealing to the viewers because it is clear who they'd cheer for.

the question is, however, is that if the jobber manages to pull out a win, will it be given to him? i think japan is quite fair in their decisions. but i hate it when only 1 neutral judge per fight, ie, thai vs japanese and the judges are thai, japanese, and american, then in will surely turn out to be a split decision. with the neutral judge ultimately deciding the match

but yeah, japan is a pretty fair country. unlike thailand. you have to ko your opponent twice to get a draw.

[mad_takamura]

japan ain't fair! there was even a fight there with a foreigner though i forgot who it was where it was stopped because a jap got bloodied due to a headbutt. it was supposed to be a tko but they went to the scorecards and the jap won.

[theHawtness]

US?
i can see many americans losing in their own soil.

[Stinky gloves]

Germany?

[Thread Stealer]

Germany has not. You are full of shit. Germany actually enforce rules and punish cheaters headbutting and whatnot. Just because your dumb ass but buddy boxer lost there, (not warn them 50 times for breaking the rules and never do shit)don't go crying about. Forever people were crying that the european boxers werent as good as the american boxers and thus not as competitive, but somehow we have all euro champ heavyweights. It was all bigoted bullshit like your claim here. You sound like one of those boxing4realretards.

Yeah, Germany does have a bad rep.

Maybe it isn't fair and only a small sample of the fights that occur there, but because of guys like Sven Ottke, and fights like Brewster-Krasniqi and Abraham-Miranda, it does have a pretty bad rep.

[Thread Stealer]

Brewster-Krasniqi? Tell me what was wrong that fight.

Abraham-Miranda? You might want to tell Miranda that Head butting is illegal. They could have easily ended the fight right there and delared Abraham the winner because of the intentional and vicious head butt.


You got nothing. I piss more poorly called fights in the US in one day.

The ref stopped the count at nine when Krasniqi was down. He waited until Krasniqi got up. It was ridiculous.

Miranda was an idiot, and he was rightfully punished for the headbutt. But the ref allowed the doctor to work on the cut and jaw IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROUND. He didn't suffer that from the headbutt, it was from a punch in the previous round.

The same thing happened with the ref allowing Gatti's corner to work on his cut in the middle of the round during Gatti-Hutchinson.

[ripcity]

Germany has not. You are full of shit. Germany actually enforce rules and punish cheaters headbutting and whatnot. Just because your dumb ass but buddy boxer lost there, (not warn them 50 times for breaking the rules and never do shit)don't go crying about. Forever people were crying that the european boxers werent as good as the american boxers and thus not as competitive, but somehow we have all euro champ heavyweights. It was all bigoted bullshit like your claim here. You sound like one of those boxing4realretards.
I said reputation for favoring local boxers. Germany far or not has devloped this reputition.

[Sp_Immortal]

japan ain't fair! there was even a fight there with a foreigner though i forgot who it was where it was stopped because a jap got bloodied due to a headbutt. it was supposed to be a tko but they went to the scorecards and the jap won.

I don't understand. If a guy was hurt due to a headbutt, then they did the right thing by going to the scorecards. That's usually the way it's done.

[Boom_Boom]

Germany has devloped a reputation as a place where a forgian boxer needs a knockout when fighting a German boxer in order to win. I'm sure almost every country gives it's boxers an advantage in scoreing fights as well.
Are there countrys that seem to give all boxers a equal chance on the score cards. Is there a place that has the opisit repuation as Germany?

i agree on germany is a joke

for me id say australia

[mad_takamura]

I don't understand. If a guy was hurt due to a headbutt, then they did the right thing by going to the scorecards. That's usually the way it's done. i was from the punch ,sorry.

[huki]

Brewster-Krasniqi? Tell me what was wrong that fight.

Abraham-Miranda? You might want to tell Miranda that head butting is illegal. They could have easily ended the fight right there and delared Abraham the winner because of the intentional and vicious head butt.

You got nothing. I piss more poorly called fights in the US in one day.

Robberies are very common in Germany and you can't argue against that. Robberies in the US usually have to do with the judges favoring a fighter with a certain promoter, not a fighter that's from a certain country. In Germany, it's very common that the judges favor German based fighters over everybody else. The worst part about blatant robberies that go on there is that the German fans don't ever have any problems with their fighters losing eleven out of twelve rounds and still winning a unanimous decision.

[Thread Stealer]

I don't recall that. This isn't like Tyson's whole camp that used to say on X knockdown the ref didn't start counting within .000001 seconds and it was really a knockdown shit, is it? I think I've only seen, oh, 43574375027575092375093 "bad counts" in fights in the USA.



Really, I don't much care about that fight because anyone that saw it knows miranda should have been immediately DQed and probably had his licenses suspnded. I think I counted like 6 blatant low blows to the groin and that compeltely amateur head butt he performed. I don't think the refs/doctors cared either, so you get something like that happening.



Ya, but a little off the subject.

The Brewster-Krasniqi long count was more blatant. The ref stopped at nine so Krasniqi could get up. The Douglas-Tyson long count was blown out of proportion by that fuckface Don King.

Miranda really wasn't any dirtier than a lot of other guys I've seen, to be honest. He just sucks at fighting dirty and it's so obvious. The only guys I've seen throw more blatant headbutts were Carlos Maussa against Vivian Harris and Andrew Golota in the rematch against Riddick Bowe.

I think most places will have their share of hometown cooking at times, that gives people the impression that it happens all the time, but in reality it's more the exception than the norm.

[sean]

anyone from america watch
michale brodie v willie jorrin

or

orlando canizales v billy hardy .

both took place in england and both times IMO the english fighter won wide on the scorecards, yet the overseas fighter got it.

[WhataRock]

Honestly Ive seen robberies in every country.
Japan has had some shocking decisions, so had Germany and definitely the U.S aswell. Seen them in Thailand, UK, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, Monaco, Italy and Korea.
There have been some pretty bad decisions in Australia also.

Its hard to gauge, majority of the time foreign opponants are brought in to lose. So most of the fights are fair wins to the hometown dude, its the robberies you sometimes remember more.

[Silverfox]

Germany has devloped a reputation as a place where a forgian boxer needs a knockout when fighting a German boxer in order to win. I'm sure almost every country gives it's boxers an advantage in scoreing fights as well.
Are there countrys that seem to give all boxers a equal chance on the score cards. Is there a place that has the opisit repuation as Germany?

Which part of Forgia are you talking about? Do you write George Bush's speeches?? :nut :lol99

[WhataRock]

Australia.

Mundine Siaca fight proves that. Siaca won, but in a lot of countries the hometown champ would have got that decision, or at least a draw.

Even the scoring in the Kessler fight was rediculous. Being at Mundines home, i thought the judges would only have 1, maybe 2 pts max in Kesslers favour. But at least Kessler was the champ, Siaca wasnt, so the Siaca fight really shows that Aussies are too fair.

the shutout was a bit stern but Kessler clearly won at least 7 or 8 rounds.
Gotta agree that the Siaca fight. Siaca made the fight but essentially his agression was ineffective. Choc didnt do much either though, I had it to Siaca by a point but I wouldnt have been suprised if Choc would have got the nod. As it turned out it went the Manny.

Most of the bad decisions you see are the 6 or 8 rounders where a filo or thai gets jobbed. But even then a lot of the time the decision goes to the right guy. The recent Chad Bennet fight is an example of this.
Plus I remember a Davey Browne fight, not only in his hometown of Syndey but in his home suburb, where he clearly outboxed the guy but it was scored a draw.

[CarltonBlues]

German boxing is corrupt. Robin Reid was warned for hitting Ottke lol. No way Ottke won that fight.
Beyer had a couple of very fortunate escapes too.

[BoppaZoo]

I have never really seen a rough decision for a foriegn fighter in Australia.

Kessler vs Mundine Mikkel clearly won.
Siaca vs Mundine Manny Clearly won
Pravisani vs Carruthers Aldo clearly won

But even though we give fair results we cant seem to draw big fights here yet
Tszyu vs Lieja (who isnt a huge name) drew a crowd of 33,000 in Melboure.

[Decebal]

Germany has devloped a reputation as a place where a forgian boxer needs a knockout when fighting a German boxer in order to win. I'm sure almost every country gives it's boxers an advantage in scoreing fights as well.
Are there countrys that seem to give all boxers a equal chance on the score cards. Is there a place that has the opisit repuation as Germany?

GABBY? Is that YOU?!:blood

[TBooze]

Hometown is Hometown....

Yes, we are all as bad as each other in the way we treat 'foreign' fighters.

[Snorkel]

Name some fights? I've heard nothing but complete biased bullshit so far.

Reid - Ottke.

The worst all round performance by a long shot. From the referee to the judges, all conspired to royally screw Reid over.

Before you shout 'biased bullshit' again, consider that the ref hasn't worked at that level since and then ask yourself why not?

[BigEars]

Ireland is more than fair when it comes to judging .

The worst robbery I've ever seen(and probably everyone who's seen the fight and isn't Italian will agree with me) is Damaen Kelly against Simeone Maludrottu .

I believe Kelly won 8 round extremely clearly , 2 rounds Maludrottu edged for me and 2 rounds were 50/50 . It was a masterclass from Kelly and what were the scores ? 118-111 , 116-113 , 115-113 all for Maludrottu and this was in Kelly's hometown(Belfast) . Granted all the judges were from the continent though .

3 of Bernard Dunne's fights have been scored a lot closer than they really were . His fight with Voronin was scored 96-94 in his favour(by an Irish referee) when Dunne won much more clearly than that .

In his fight with Pickering 1 judge had the fight 115-113 for Dunne , which again was far too close . The other two judges(117-111) had things right .

In Dunne's last fight(against Reidar Walstad) one judge had the fight 115-113(the same judge that had that scored for the Pickering fight) and another 116-112 , imo Dunne won 11 of the 12 rounds although I could see how someone could give another 2 rounds to Walstad but no more than that . The last score was a more accurate 118-111 .

Irishman Jim Rock lost a controversial decision(76-75 Jones) to Alan Jones(a Welshman) in Belfast but then again it could have been a referee from anywhere in the UK reffing .

I can't think of any major decision going to an Irish fighter on home turf............ever .

[Tom_Tocca]

We have maybe 1 or 2 televised robberies a year on German soil. With about 50 televised! cards a year, that isn't that much as you would think - we have clearly improved over the last 2 years...

[Fitir]

A "country" is not fair with foreign boxers. Bad decisions have nothing to do with the country... It has to do with the influence of the promoters on sanctionning bodies. You can be robbed everywhere if a boxer is managed by a powerful promoter who has influence and needs to use it for his business.
You can be robbed in Germany simply because the german promoters are "better" (richer) than the other euro promoters. A guy like Beyer would have neven been champ for so long if he had been spanish, french or belgian ! The main robberies are not in the ring , you can be robbed of a career if you don't have the good promoter. I watched a guy like Jean Pascal obtaining a ranking in the top 10 of the WBC after a UD over Bunteng ?!? He is now 5th with a UD over Ikeke... What is this joke ? A guy like Mendy couldn't even obtain a single EBU chance, not even an EBU-EU chance after victories or draws against guys like Kanfouah or Hanshaw who are far better than Bunteng (Hanshaw destroyed Bunteng in 3 rounds...) and in the same league than Ikeke.
In France you could be robbed on the Acaries cards. Now that the Acaries influence on the EBU and WBA has gone you obtain easily fair decisions as a foreign boxer. Even against the cash cows (Gogiya vs Chanet, Parra vs Asloum, Narvaez vs Asloum)

[Brickhaus]

Japan, few and far between when a robbery happens there.

Pfft. When the judges aren't bought out, the judging is fair, but the judges get bought out much more frequently than probably in any other country.

Australia and PR are a couple of good ones.

[retriever]

Philippines

[ko factor]

PhilippinesYeah! Remember the Gorres vs. Montiel fight? Gorres was robbed by the judges even in his own country.:yep

[pipe wrenched]

Although it was unfair for the thread starter to blast Germany, this has been a great thread to read with a lot of good posts. Kudos to you guys. IMO, as other posters have said it's the promoters who influence judges more than the hosting country or the nationalities of the fighters involved.

[bumdujour]

germany is the worst IMO.

[Hawks28]

Why not the USA? I wouldn't call the DLH/Trinidad decision fair but Tito is definently not from here.

with the US, I think it varies from state to state. Michigan is known to have some pretty bad robberies. Florida and Nevada come to mind as well for having bad decisions.

[Hawks28]

Canada. Never really heard of a hometown decision in Canada. The scoring in the Leonard- Duran I fight was dead on.

Canada isnt too bad, but its not perfect. I have rarely seen a foreign fighter get robbed here though. Most robberies I have heard about or seen here were in fights involving 2 Canadians.

[Hawks28]

Name some fights? I've heard nothing but complete biased bullshit so far.

how about Lucas-Beyer? Horrible decision. You cant tell me that wasn't a robbery.

[fidds]

If you want to watch bad decsions watch sven ottke fights, or valuev (yes he isnt german but he was based there) fights in germany :lol:

In the uk I saw junior witter get a gift

Of course usa is the same any one remember lewis-holy 1 :-(

Every country in the world is bad just some worse then others

But ill never get oiver the reffing of ottke-reid when he got a warning for knocking ottke down and a point deducted for hitting sven to hard :hey Take those 3 lost points into account for a start :bbb

[Odo]

Germany has devloped a reputation as a place where a forgian boxer needs a knockout when fighting a German boxer in order to win. I'm sure almost every country gives it's boxers an advantage in scoreing fights as well.
Are there countrys that seem to give all boxers a equal chance on the score cards. Is there a place that has the opisit repuation as Germany?

I for my part like attending shows in the Czech Republic.The Czechs are usually quite fair towards foreign fighters.They almost always applaud a foreign fighter,too-whether he has lost or won.

[Sweet Pea Pacquiao]

Puerto Rico has a good rep.

[BigEars]

While we're in the process of attacking Germany for bad decisions(I apologise German people) I felt Brian Magee was unlucky not to have gotten the decision v Vitali Tsypko . A poor decision imo but not quite a dreadful one .

[Hawks28]

Didn't see it. I tend not to trust what I have not seen personally. Got a torrent?

no I dont have a torrent. I can assure you it was a brutal decision though. I did find an excellent article from ESB about it. Here are some excerpts:

"Eric Lucas' first venture into Germany for his title defence against Markus Beyer turned out to be a disaster. The bottom line is that it was a disgrace and why anyone will want to fight over there is beyond me. It was blatant highway robbery. Lucas dominated Beyer in every aspect and the judges saw fit to give the WBC Super Middleweight Title to the challenger."

"When Beyer was announced the winner, referee Laurence Cole appeared to be in shock that he had to raise the 'losers' hand in victory."

Here is the full article which details in depth how the fight went down, and the disgraceful decision that followed it:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Tom_Tocca]

If you think of Odo's point having not only fair judges but a fair crowd then I have to say that Italians are worst.

They always boo the foreign if h wins, even if their own fighter is outclassed or KOed.

I remember the fight between Vivian Harris and Oktay Urkal in Berlin, Germany. As Harris TKOed Urkal it was just quit for a moment but than as Vivian went from corner to corner the crowd cheered him...

[thewoo]

Philippines

I agree 100%. From the few fights that I have seen in the phillipines it seems that everyone from the crowd, to the ref to the judges for the most part are very unbiased. The only exception I would say is Pacquiao vs Hussein where Pacquiao seemd to get a 30 minute count after getting knocked down.

[Pimp C]

Usa

[BigEars]

If you think of Odo's point having not only fair judges but a fair crowd then I have to say that Italians are worst.

They always boo the foreign if h wins, even if their own fighter is outclassed or KOed.

I remember the fight between Vivian Harris and Oktay Urkal in Berlin, Germany. As Harris TKOed Urkal it was just quit for a moment but than as Vivian went from corner to corner the crowd cheered him...

I'll admit I didn't want to be the one to bring this up but I agree , I think some Italian people will feel I have a vendetta against them now .

Johnny Nelson taunting the Italian crowed after winning a SD(which imo should have been a UD) over Cantatore was priceless . They booed after the decision and then Nelson went over to each side of the ring held his belt aloft and made a face identical to this-:shock: hilarious stuff .

Apparently Gurov was robbed against Cantatore very recently for the European title , not suprising as Cantatore is the most popular Italian fighter and the only one with serious backing nowdays . If it wasn't for there being two American judges in Nelson's fight he would have lost his title .



[I'd like to note I have no problem with Italian people , their boxers or the country in general , just the politics of boxing in Italy]

[marting]

I've seen bad decisions in Japan, U.S., Germany, and England. Where I've had the most complaint is with ref's. At some small shows in the U.S., Mexico and Puerto Rico I've seen some utterly ridiculous behavior by refs.

I hate to see refs becoming "regulars" for particular fighters who have links to certain promoters. That happens way too much in this game.

As far as Germany's bad rap, in boxing gyms for a long time it was a tag that was very big amongst black fighters. I had heard it lot from unheralded fighters that were real road warriors fighting all over the globe. Stories of German fights were peppered with accounts of bad hotels in ridiculously inconvenient locations, missing reservations, late-night calls, bad food, and other strange going ons. It seemed to come to a peak with Chris Byrd and his rantings and now seems to have been addressed.