Training regimes from around 1900 inside

[MrPook]

I did get those articles from Janitor about training regimes of boxers from around 1900.

You can read the articles here:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I've filtered the training regimes of several fighters out of the articles so if you don't feel like reading them; they're posted below.

[janitor]

I did get those articles from Janitor about training regimes of boxers from around 1900.

You can read the articles here:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I've filtered the training regimes of several fighters out of the articles so if you don't feel like reading them; they're posted below.

What else would be usefull?

Those were some that I could get quickly.

[MrPook]

Tom Sharkey training regime
World heavyweight champion around 1900. RINGS TOP 100 puncher of all time.

6.00

Wake up

Brisk walk, after the walk he had a rubdown


7.30

Breakfast

Rest


10 mile run
To the standards of those days Tom Sharkey didn’t run far although he did run fast.


12.30

Dinner at the middle of the day

After dinner Tom Sharkey slept


3.00

Work out in the gym

The work out did consist a lot of heavy bag work, sparring, and shadowboxing with light dumbbells.

The gym at which Tom Sharkey worked out also had wrestling mats, wrist- and weight machines.

[MrPook]

Tommy Ryan training at the day he arrived at training camp
1894-1896 world welterweight champion, also captured the world middleweight title.
RINGS TOP 100 puncher of all time.

Morning workout

10 mile run

Rub down

Skipping rope

Afternoon

Heavy bag

Skipping rope

Dumbbells

[MrPook]

Young Griffo training regime
World featherweight champion 1890. Defended the title four times.

Waking up

Short walk before breakfast

Breakfast

One hour rest for digestion

10 - 12 mile run

Rubdown

Dinner

Two hours rest for digestion

2.30 – 3.30 Work out at the gym
- 20 minutes on the heavybag
- 4 - 6 rounds of intense sparring
- 200 – 300 turns at the dumbbells (probably light weights)
- 500 – 1000 turns at skipping rope

Supper

After supper he would go for a walk

The rest of the afternoon and evening he enjoyed himself till bedtime.

[MrPook]

Peter Maher Training
World heavyweight champion 1895-1896

Waking up

Breakfast

15 mile run


Gym work:

30 minutes of bag work

3 – 4 rounds of sparring

Skipping rope

Pulleys


After the gym work he had a cold bath. Then he had a rubdown.

[MrPook]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPook View Post
I did get those articles from Janitor about training regimes of boxers from around 1900.

You can read the articles here:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I've filtered the training regimes of several fighters out of the articles so if you don't feel like reading them; they're posted below.
What else would be usefull?

Those were some that I could get quickly.

Any training regimes and diets from the past would be welcome.

I'm specially looking for the workouts of Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, and Joe Frazier.

[janitor]

Any training regimes and diets from the past would be welcome.

I'm specially looking for the workouts of Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, and Joe Frazier.

I can get you the regimes of Joe Louis and Max Schmeling prior to their 1938 fight.

I can get you some info on Rocky Marciano.

Dont have anything on Frazier.

[jaffay]

very interesting, good work guys!

[MrPook]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPook View Post
Any training regimes and diets from the past would be welcome.

I'm specially looking for the workouts of Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, and Joe Frazier.
I can get you the regimes of Joe Louis and Max Schmeling prior to their 1938 fight.

I can get you some info on Rocky Marciano.

Dont have anything on Frazier.

Ok, that would be great.

[Mike South]

Nice thread. One of the most interesting I've seen anywhere in a while - to me anyways.

[Seamus]

as a former track athlete in high school and college, i am a little suspicious of these distances claimed for roadwork. they exceed many modern champion middle distance runners, if in fact they were done daily. they also would be extremely draining for the boxing-specific portion of the workout day.

[Boilermaker]

as a former track athlete in high school and college, i am a little suspicious of these distances claimed for roadwork. they exceed many modern champion middle distance runners, if in fact they were done daily. they also would be extremely draining for the boxing-specific portion of the workout day.

Fancy that, the world heavyweight champions actually trained for fights, and they actually trained harder than a middle distance runner!

Incidentally, how do these workouts compare with todays workouts by most of the top pros.

[MrPook]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
as a former track athlete in high school and college, i am a little suspicious of these distances claimed for roadwork. they exceed many modern champion middle distance runners, if in fact they were done daily. they also would be extremely draining for the boxing-specific portion of the workout day.
Fancy that, the world heavyweight champions actually trained for fights, and they actually trained harder than a middle distance runner!

Incidentally, how do these workouts compare with todays workouts by most of the top pros.

Most todays top pros run somewhere around 5 miles a day. Most of them do spend more time in the gym than fighters from the old days tough. And I think todays fighters do a wider variety of exercises.

Also this is what Bob Fitzsimmons had to say about his running:
"I'll do no more 18 or 20 mile runs" he said in his initial week's work. "I'll start off and run six or eight miles and then I'll walk back at a good nice gait. Next day I'll walk out my distance and run back. Another day I'll run a mile and walk a mile, alternating for 10 or 15 miles. Another day I'll follow the telegraph poles. I'll run at a top speed between two poles, then walk between the next two".


So it looks like fighters of the old days did mix up their running with walking. But even then they where out on foot for a long time. It's hard to tell tough because non of the other fighters seem to talk about mixing walking up with running.

[Seamus]

Fancy that, the world heavyweight champions actually trained for fights, and they actually trained harder than a middle distance runner!

Incidentally, how do these workouts compare with todays workouts by most of the top pros.

The fact remains that at 10 to 15 miles a day (70 to 105 miles a week) they would have little energy to devote to actual boxing specific training. And no, they were not supermen. And though these guys look fit, they do not look like guys who put in 70 or miles a week and additional time in the gym. But then maybe that is due to the intake of warm ales, beef broth and vigorous rubdowns.

[PowerPuncher]

Fancy that, the world heavyweight champions actually trained for fights, and they actually trained harder than a middle distance runner!

Incidentally, how do these workouts compare with todays workouts by most of the top pros.

Umm no they didn't because they were probably doing 7-8miniute miles by all accounts

[PowerPuncher]

The fact remains that at 10 to 15 miles a day (70 to 105 miles a week) they would have little energy to devote to actual boxing specific training. And no, they were not supermen. And though these guys look fit, they do not look like guys who put in 70 or miles a week and additional time in the gym. But then maybe that is due to the intake of warm ales, beef broth and vigorous rubdowns.

I'm 210lbs and do a 6-13mile run every 2 days and I'd agree if these boxers were doing that roadword they'd have legs as thick as mine but they have skinny legs for the most part. They would also look far far better conditioned, these boxers aren't that well conditioned.

I disagree that a boxer couldn't do 10miles in the morning and work bag or spar in the afternoon. Although if his knees/feet are bashed up from the roadwork he could have trouble walking

However all in all I'd say they'd do some of these workouts occasionally and hype up their workouts just as men in gyms around the world hype their workouts

[Boilermaker]

I'm 210lbs and do a 6-13mile run every 2 days and I'd agree if these boxers were doing that roadword they'd have legs as thick as mine but they have skinny legs for the most part. They would also look far far better conditioned, these boxers aren't that well conditioned.

I disagree that a boxer couldn't do 10miles in the morning and work bag or spar in the afternoon. Although if his knees/feet are bashed up from the roadwork he could have trouble walking

However all in all I'd say they'd do some of these workouts occasionally and hype up their workouts just as men in gyms around the world hype their workouts

Why would you have thick legs because you run further? Marathon runners, who i presume run as hard or harder than this in their training never have thick legs. The running trims them down. I would ahve thought that it would do the same for boxers. Perhaps this even accounts for the fact that older boxers as a general rule are often as tall as modern boxers but generally weigh much less. I dare say, that if a Lewis or Klitchsko trained like Willard, they would end up being built like willard. (or fulton or any other big tall fighter from the early days). Conversely, if Fitzsimmons had trained the same way that Toney did, he would probably weigh close to the same weight as him also.

Regarding being to tired after the run to do a solid workout, it is interesting. Again, i would have thought that this would be the best time to work on technique and training, as it would help build stamina down the straight. Do you think otherwise?

Regarding the Superman comment, i agree that they are not supermen, but it is a fact that performance is directly related to training. Just because you wouldnt do it and noone today would do it doesnt mean it wasnt done in years gone by. For the prime example, look up the training regiment of Walter Lindrum. No one today would consdier undertaking this, but he did do it and as a result of his training he set records that will probably never be broken. I agree that some of the figures may be exaggerated a little bit, but they couldnt all be, and they must be reasonably close to the mark.

[janitor]

The fact remains that at 10 to 15 miles a day (70 to 105 miles a week) they would have little energy to devote to actual boxing specific training. And no, they were not supermen. And though these guys look fit, they do not look like guys who put in 70 or miles a week and additional time in the gym. But then maybe that is due to the intake of warm ales, beef broth and vigorous rubdowns.

I suspect that they eased up on the roadwork and focused more on sparring as the fight aproached giving their body time to recover but retaining the aerobic fitness.

[PowerPuncher]

Why would you have thick legs because you run further? Marathon runners, who i presume run as hard or harder than this in their training never have thick legs. The running trims them down. I would ahve thought that it would do the same for boxers. Perhaps this even accounts for the fact that older boxers as a general rule are often as tall as modern boxers but generally weigh much less. I dare say, that if a Lewis or Klitchsko trained like Willard, they would end up being built like willard. (or fulton or any other big tall fighter from the early days). Conversely, if Fitzsimmons had trained the same way that Toney did, he would probably weigh close to the same weight as him also.

Regarding being to tired after the run to do a solid workout, it is interesting. Again, i would have thought that this would be the best time to work on technique and training, as it would help build stamina down the straight. Do you think otherwise?

Regarding the Superman comment, i agree that they are not supermen, but it is a fact that performance is directly related to training. Just because you wouldnt do it and noone today would do it doesnt mean it wasnt done in years gone by. For the prime example, look up the training regiment of Walter Lindrum. No one today would consdier undertaking this, but he did do it and as a result of his training he set records that will probably never be broken. I agree that some of the figures may be exaggerated a little bit, but they couldnt all be, and they must be reasonably close to the mark.

Because marathon runners weigh 130-140lbs, not 200lbs, a 200lb man when running is putting 600lb of force onto either foot, a 140lb man puts 420lbs of force onto either foot, massive massive difference as the miles clock up, 1lb of bodyweight will add 5seconds to a 1mile time. Plus marathon runners still probably have thicker more developed legs than most of these boxers. The old time boxers don't look like they have the leg structure to do decent times over 10miles for the most part

There is an assumption in your post that all the top old timers trained hard. Many won't have done, especially the likes of Willard won't have done, I'd pick Lennox Lewis and Vitali to have far better mile times than Willard

[Russell]

Peter Maher Training
World heavyweight champion 1895-1896

Waking up

Breakfast

15 mile run


Gym work:

30 minutes of bag work

3 – 4 rounds of sparring

Skipping rope

Pulleys


After the gym work he had a cold bath. Then he had a rubdown.

Didn't Maher run over 20 miles on certain days or something equally ridiculous?

The guys workouts dwarfed Marciano's even.

[janitor]

Didn't Maher run over 20 miles on certain days or something equally ridiculous?

The guys workouts dwarfed Marciano's even.

That is what I have heard.

Matdenoleon would probably give you more details about Mahers workout.

[janitor]

There is an assumption in your post that all the top old timers trained hard. Many won't have done, especially the likes of Willard won't have done, I'd pick Lennox Lewis and Vitali to have far better mile times than Willard

Which Willard are we talking about?

The one of the Dempsey fight perhaps.

The one of the Johnson fight no way.

[Seamus]

Wow. Maher could have just as easily gotten knocked out by running no miles at all.

Seriously, though, i think PowerPuncher is on to something. Perhaps they only logged such miles a few days a week or tapered off as the fight approach. Or also, part of their roadwork was a brisk walk. I have seen the photos of these guys in their large sweaters and wool trousers doing such roadwork. Still, most do not look to be in the shape of 70+ mile a week guys. Furthermore, the footware in those days must have been atrotious. I can only imagine the injuries sustained from all those miles and how counter-productive it would be to actual boxing.

[Russell]

Maher was a extreme alcoholic later in his career. His career and losses are a bit more complicated then they appear on paper.

[amhlilhaus]

the easy answer is these guys didn't know how far a mile was, I mean damn, even the fighters in the early 1800's who we know of their training regimens claimed to run ten miles.

as technology advances we learn more, and the easy answer is they weren't really running ten or fifteen miles, but only five or seven.

sheesh.

[janitor]

the easy answer is these guys didn't know how far a mile was, I mean damn, even the fighters in the early 1800's who we know of their training regimens claimed to run ten miles.

as technology advances we learn more, and the easy answer is they weren't really running ten or fifteen miles, but only five or seven.

sheesh.

That observation is more than a little patronising not to mention ill informed.

Distances between urban settlements have been well known and publicised since the 1800s. They were the basis on which postal charges were calculated and were often measured in minute detail for that reason.

A common method used by ealy fighters to estimate distances was to run along the route of telegraph lines.

[MrPook]

Janitor can you give me the workouts of Schmelling and Louis for their 1938 title fight?

I'm also interested in the training regime of Rocky Marciano.

If you guys now more about the the training and/or diets of Maher and Willard I would be pleased if you would post it here.

[janitor]

Ok, that would be great.

Max Schmeling

Max Schmeling usualy traveled to the Unites States by linner and would start off his training regime by running 12 miles a day on deck.

His Napanoch training camp was at an altitude of 1400 feet to facilitate altitude training.

Acording to the Sunday Pictorial (pior to the Ben Foord fight) his training rotine consisted of eight miles of roadwork through the snow, followed by 6-8 rounds with his sparring partners. He would then spend hours skipping and bag work. He would then relax in the evening with clay pigeon shooting.

We can inferr from this that Schmeling trained meticulously even for commonwealth grade oponents.

Joe Louis

When Louis trained for his title fight against Jimmy Braddock he set up quaters by Lake Michigan a month before the fight.

His regime early in the camp was thus:

He would rise at 5.00 and run ten miles with Jack Blackburn drove behind him in a car measuring the miles.

He would then go back to bed and sleep untill 10.00 after which he would wake for a breakfast of prumes, orange juice, and liver. He woult then relax for a few hours and hold sparring sesions in the afternoon.

Dinner consisted of chicken, fish and vegetables and Louis was alowed icecream for desert.

To relax Louis would play pingpong, read and listen to jazz music.

He would round the day off by going for a walk along the shore of the lake and then go to bed at 9.00.

I know that on other ocasions Louis often rowed which is probably why his training camps were always next to one lake or another.

[MrPook]

Thanks

[PowerPuncher]

Which Willard are we talking about?

The one of the Dempsey fight perhaps.

The one of the Johnson fight no way.

Willard the boxer was no way the athlete Lennox/Vitali, to suggest otherwise shows a complete lack of knowledge of sport as a whole, he was a comparitive oaf

[PowerPuncher]

the easy answer is these guys didn't know how far a mile was, I mean damn, even the fighters in the early 1800's who we know of their training regimens claimed to run ten miles.

as technology advances we learn more, and the easy answer is they weren't really running ten or fifteen miles, but only five or seven.

sheesh.

I used to run a circuit I thought was a hilly mile, I got my time down to 3:50 on it, I was gutted to find out it was only 1200m :lol:

[janitor]

Willard the boxer was no way the athlete Lennox/Vitali, to suggest otherwise shows a complete lack of knowledge of sport as a whole, he was a comparitive oaf

Willard did a sh1t load of endurance training before the Johnson fight.

His strategy was basicaly to outlast Johnson.

I will try to dig up the details.

[janitor]

Thanks

No problem mate.

[PowerPuncher]

Furthermore, the footware in those days must have been atrotious. I can only imagine the injuries sustained from all those miles and how counter-productive it would be to actual boxing.

I don't think people realise how many injuries you get from running long distances wearing protective/supportive/cushioned running shoes, without that - no chance of them doing 10miles a day, especially the heavier bodyweights

[PowerPuncher]

Willard did a sh1t load of endurance training before the Johnson fight.

His strategy was basicaly to outlast Johnson.

I will try to dig up the details.

Yes I noticed him bouncing on his tip toes throughout the fight, continously moving, throwing none stop punches

No he wasn't he doesn't have 1/4 of the workrate on the top guys today

[MrPook]

In the old days everybody did a lot more of walking and running. If you had to go to school on the country site for instance you had to walk for miles. If you had to be somewhere fast you where running.

People where more used to walk/run long distances. So MAYBE fighters in the old days where running so many miles to have a edge by fight time. 5 miles was not really considered training that was what everybody did. Running 10 or more miles was training to them.

I do agree that todays fighters are on a whole other level than fighters from around 1900.

[janitor]

Yes I noticed him bouncing on his tip toes throughout the fight, continously moving, throwing none stop punches

No he wasn't he doesn't have 1/4 of the workrate on the top guys today

That is partly because he had to do it for a much longer period. There is probably a much bigger diference between 15 rounds and 20 than there is between 12 and 15.

This is what Fleischer said about Willards training regime quoted by Monte Cox.

"Jack Curley and Tex O’Rourke devised a plan to take advantage of those assets in order to defeat the black heavyweight champion. First they made it a finish fight scheduled for 45 rounds in Havana, Cuba under a hot sun. O’Rourke prepared Willard for a lengthy bout by strengthening the challengers legs by running him up hills and over rough terrain. By the time of the fight he was a match for any man in terms of endurance"

[janitor]

I don't think people realise how many injuries you get from running long distances wearing protective/supportive/cushioned running shoes, without that - no chance of them doing 10miles a day, especially the heavier bodyweights

Most running injuries are caused by poor technique rather than actual atrition.

I would also add that just because you cant do it dosnt mean that sombody else cant.

[MrPook]

In the old days everybody did a lot more of walking and running. If you had to go to school on the country site for instance you had to walk for miles. If you had to be somewhere fast you where running.

People where more used to walk/run long distances. So MAYBE fighters in the old days where running so many miles to have a edge by fight time. 5 miles was not really considered training that was what everybody did. Running 10 or more miles was training to them.

I do agree that todays fighters are on a whole other level than fighters from around 1900.
MrPook is online now Report Post Top
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I mean were not where. English is not my first language.

[PowerPuncher]

Most running injuries are caused by poor technique rather than actual atrition.

I would also add that just because you cant do it dosnt mean that sombody else cant.

Gebressalassie the greatest runner of all time with some of the best technique ever had some serious feet injuries at times. All runners get injuries

[janitor]

Gebressalassie the greatest runner of all time with some of the best technique ever had some serious feet injuries at times. All runners get injuries

Indeed ultramarathonrunners have to sustain multiple injuries to complete a race but they just put up with it.

[PowerPuncher]

That is partly because he had to do it for a much longer period. There is probably a much bigger diference between 15 rounds and 20 than there is between 12 and 15.

This is what Fleischer said about Willards training regime quoted by Monte Cox.

"Jack Curley and Tex O’Rourke devised a plan to take advantage of those assets in order to defeat the black heavyweight champion. First they made it a finish fight scheduled for 45 rounds in Havana, Cuba under a hot sun. O’Rourke prepared Willard for a lengthy bout by strengthening the challengers legs by running him up hills and over rough terrain. By the time of the fight he was a match for any man in terms of endurance"

Its also because hes not as physically fit.

Willards plan was to absorb Johnsons shots, let him get tired, lean on Johnson until Johnson got tired, he wasn't outworking Johnson or doing much, it was more like the Simpsons episode where Homer gets punched in the face 100s of times until his opponent gets tired and he pushes him over

[janitor]

Its also because hes not as physically fit.

Willards plan was to absorb Johnsons shots, let him get tired, lean on Johnson until Johnson got tired, he wasn't outworking Johnson or doing much, it was more like the Simpsons episode where Homer gets punched in the face 100s of times until his opponent gets tired and he pushes him over

That is a little bit unfair.

If you watch the whole fight you will see that Willard took a good few rounds.

[janitor]

Thanks

Might I suggest a few things you should be looking for.

Tom Cribbs training regime in the runup to the rematch with Tom Mollineux. This is basicaly the first ever training camp as far as I can see. The first organised atempt to bring a fighter to the peak of possible condition.

You might also want to look at the training regimes of some of the mid 19th century bareknuckle champions like Yankee Sullivan and Jem Mace. This is where you start to see something recognisable as a training regime today emerge.

Although weightlifting became mainstream around the 1980s there have always been fighters who used dumbells here and there. I think the article on George Dixon and Joe Walcott makes reference to it.

At some point in the mid 20th century pasta seems to have replaced potatoes as the principal source of carbohydrate for training fighters.

[janitor]

Thanks

I have found some gen on John L Sullivans preparations for the Killrain fight.

His sparring included not only boxing but also wrestling with William Muldoon.

Sullivan did two hours roadwork in the morning and two hours in the evening. He tossed the medcine ball, skipped rope for 20 minutes and did calisthenics with dumbells.

[MrPook]

Might I suggest a few things you should be looking for.

Tom Cribbs training regime in the runup to the rematch with Tom Mollineux. This is basicaly the first ever training camp as far as I can see. The first organised atempt to bring a fighter to the peak of possible condition.

You might also want to look at the training regimes of some of the mid 19th century bareknuckle champions like Yankee Sullivan and Jem Mace. This is where you start to see something recognisable as a training regime today emerge.

Although weightlifting became mainstream around the 1980s there have always been fighters who used dumbells here and there. I think the article on George Dixon and Joe Walcott makes reference to it.

At some point in the mid 20th century pasta seems to have replaced potatoes as the principal source of carbohydrate for training fighters.

Nice. That's the kind of information I'm looking for.


I noticed the use of weights to. It surprised me because so many people claim that old school fighters didn't use weights.

But Young Griffo and Tommy Ryan did use dumbbells as mentioned in the articles.

At the gym where Tom Sharkey traines they had weight machines, so i think he used them.

And Peter Maher did pulleys wich is actually a primitive weightmachine.

[Seamus]

Willard the boxer was no way the athlete Lennox/Vitali, to suggest otherwise shows a complete lack of knowledge of sport as a whole, he was a comparitive oaf

not true. by all accounts, he was stronger than either man, lifting 500 lb bales of hay over his head. and i suspect neither lewis nor vit could have performed in the havana heat as well as and for as long as willard.

[PowerPuncher]

not true. by all accounts, he was stronger than either man, lifting 500 lb bales of hay over his head. and i suspect neither lewis nor vit could have performed in the havana heat as well as and for as long as willard.

And you believe he lifted 500lb bales over his head? Because no man in the world could lift a 500lb bale overhead. The world record for clean and jerk on a straight bar is 580lbs for a single rep. Now a bale is far harder to lift than a straight bar, so no one is history's clocked 500lbs on such a lift

Just another example of embelishment in training stories

[Bokaj]

And you believe he lifted 500lb bales over his head? Because no man in the world could lift a 500lb bale overhead. The world record for clean and jerk on a straight bar is 580lbs for a single rep. Now a bale is far harder to lift than a straight bar, so no one is history's clocked 500lbs on such a lift

Just another example of embelishment in training stories

Yeah, I would need one very, very credible source to believe that one.

[Mike South]

as a former track athlete in high school and college, i am a little suspicious of these distances claimed for roadwork. they exceed many modern champion middle distance runners, if in fact they were done daily. they also would be extremely draining for the boxing-specific portion of the workout day.

I agree.

[Mike South]

I don't think people realise how many injuries you get from running long distances wearing protective/supportive/cushioned running shoes, without that - no chance of them doing 10miles a day, especially the heavier bodyweights
And Ali used to run in Army boots.

I agree with you. But at the same time, I think of the weightlifters belt - the guys who get hurt are the ones who wear the belt.

Maybe we have this perspective because we wouldn't dream of doing once what these guys claimed to have done every day?

[Mike South]

the easy answer is these guys didn't know how far a mile was, I mean damn, even the fighters in the early 1800's who we know of their training regimens claimed to run ten miles.

as technology advances we learn more, and the easy answer is they weren't really running ten or fifteen miles, but only five or seven.

sheesh.

Well said. Common sense. This is an important point for your essay IMO, Bokaj.

[Mike South]

Most running injuries are caused by poor technique rather than actual atrition.

I would also add that just because you cant do it dosnt mean that sombody else cant.
And one of the common threads also is massage. I couldn't run for years until I discovered the benefits of massage in breaking up scar tissue and keeping muscles free.

I love this thread!

[MrPook]

In the days of bare knuckle-fighting fights did go on till one man gave up, resulting in fights that could last as long as 75 rounds. Jack Johnson and Willard were scheduled for 45 rounds in their title fight. Around 1900 title fights were scheduled for a variety of rounds, most lasting more then 15 rounds. By the time Jack Dempsey was champion most title fights were scheduled for 15 rounds. Then in the early 1980's the number of rounds was cut back to 13 and later 12. Today 12 rounds is the number of rounds for a title fights.

Is it possible that over time training methods changed because of the change in rounds.
To me it looks like fighters from the old days did focus on endurance rather then punching power because the prepared them self for such a long fight. That is why I think fighters did run so many miles in the old days. Today's fighters only have to do 12 rounds and there for they focus more on explosive punching power.

How would a fighter like Klitschko do in a fight scheduled over 45 rounds? Would a fighter like Fitzsimmons for instance just walk away from the confrontation until round 15, waiting for Klitschko to gas out, and then bring the fight to him?

[Boilermaker]

In the days of bare knuckle-fighting fights did go on till one man gave up, resulting in fights that could last as long as 75 rounds. Jack Johnson and Willard were scheduled for 45 rounds in their title fight. Around 1900 title fights were scheduled for a variety of rounds, most lasting more then 15 rounds. By the time Jack Dempsey was champion most title fights were scheduled for 15 rounds. Then in the early 1980's the number of rounds was cut back to 13 and later 12. Today 12 rounds is the number of rounds for a title fights.

Is it possible that over time training methods changed because of the change in rounds.
To me it looks like fighters from the old days did focus on endurance rather then punching power because the prepared them self for such a long fight. That is why I think fighters did run so many miles in the old days. Today's fighters only have to do 12 rounds and there for they focus more on explosive punching power.

How would a fighter like Klitschko do in a fight scheduled over 45 rounds? Would a fighter like Fitzsimmons for instance just walk away from the confrontation until round 15, waiting for Klitschko to gas out, and then bring the fight to him?

I think the other thing that is forgotten often by people is the liberal clinching rule whichmeant that in the earlier years, fighters would have their endurance drained much more by the greater wrestling tactics. The cutting out of wrestling from modern fights means that fighters can now get away with less endurance training. This and the lesser rounds, bigger gloves etc is the main reason for an emphasis on weight lifting.

[MrPook]

How much did gloves weigh in the old days compared to the gloves that are used today?

[ripcity]

I think the running dustances are exgerated. I find it hard to beleve that someone could run 20 miles (6.2 short of a marathon) on a daily basis and still have time, strength and enegery to train for boxing. I think that the clamed distancets were part braging and partly to phyic out opoents and to make them over extend themselves in their training.

[janitor]

I think the running dustances are exgerated. I find it hard to beleve that someone could run 20 miles (6.2 short of a marathon) on a daily basis and still have time, strength and enegery to train for boxing. I think that the clamed distancets were part braging and partly to phyic out opoents and to make them over extend themselves in their training.

There are too many primary sources quoting these figures to be dismised.

Look at any newpaper report from the training camp of any world class fighter from this period.

They all say the same thing.

Ten miles of roadwork a day was prety normal for this period at least at some stage of the training cycle.

[janitor]

How much did gloves weigh in the old days compared to the gloves that are used today?

The first were skin tight leather gloves of 2 oz.

Bob Fitzsimmons used 4 oz horsehair gloves for most fights but somtimes used 8 oz gloves.

Jack Dempsey used 5 oz gloves.

Joe Louis used 6 oz gloves.

Rocky Marciano used 8 oz gloves as did Liston and Ali.

10 oz gloves came in later and are used today.

16 oz gloves have always been used for sparring.

[RDJ]

I think part of the misunderstanding lies in the difference between road work and running.

[janitor]

I think part of the misunderstanding lies in the difference between road work and running.

Good observation.

We dont know the time of these sprints for the most part. Some of them wer probably light jogs.

There are of course dramatic exceptions like Fitzsimmons who tells us the distance he ran and the time it took.

[RDJ]

I think they were much more creative with their road work. Light jog, a short sprint, move sideways and backwards, throw punches while moving, walk a few hundred meters, shadowbox for a while, brisk walk up a steep hill, eat an apple, light jog again, etc, etc.

I don't think the numbers in this thread are that hard to believe. People around that time walked all the time as someone mentioned, their base level of activity was much higher. Physical labour, walking miles and miles every day, chop wood to keep the fire going, things like that. Some also (and this I will be attacked for) had a nutritional benefit compared to loads of modern athletes who live on pasta, protein shakes and patented synthetic multivitamins and such as they ate nothing but unrefined, natural foods.

[RDJ]

Janitor do you by any means have actual data on what was considered road work by some back then? I want to gather some information for a thread in the training section.

[janitor]

Janitor do you by any means have actual data on what was considered road work by some back then? I want to gather some information for a thread in the training section.

Most of the fighters are short on specifics.

I know that Jeffries would alternativley jog 100 yards then sprint 100 yards during his roadwork.

I will try to dig up more.

[RDJ]

Most of the fighters are short on specifics.

I know that Jeffries would alternativley jog 100 yards then sprint 100 yards during his roadwork.

I will try to dig up more.

That would make my day, thanks in advance :good

[anarci]

Bump