Fighters who should have been GREAT but fell short

[chimba]

Michael Nunn - very talented guy, that KO lost to Toney while winning by a mile basically ended his run. Never did recover from that. Fantastic boxer, very fluid, fast, very good power and very long.

[Dave's Top Ten]

Don Curry

[chimba]

I was thinking of that too, fluid, explosive, good reflexes, crunching power..but again that fight with Honeyghan (who turned out to have an unbalanced career himself) changed him

[WhataRock]

I think both these fighters lost because they lacked that extra something that was going to make them great. In both cases probably durability and mental strength. Maybe some more obscure guys who looked the shit but were cut down in their prime for different reasons would possibly be guys like Luis Manuel Rodriguez or Tyrone Everret. LMR getting the short end of some decisions against the likes of great welters Emile Griffith and Curtis Cokes. Tyrone getting capped by his mrs at the age of 24, after apparently getting shafted in his first title fight less then a year eariler.

[Sweet Pea]

I agree with Curry, not so much Nunn. Curry had all the skills, while Nunn more or less just had the physical tools and showed flashes of brilliance skill-wise, like many others. He was never as well rounded as Curry, though few were really.

[Robbi]

Agreed on Curry. A very well balanced fighter offensively and defensively at his best. Very good power and speed, although not quite blazing with his hands. Solid technically across the board. Beautiful textbook stance and placement of his guard. He could fight at long range, mid-range or up close.

[WhataRock]

Perhaps Im misunderstanding the title but for me Curry and Nunn got as far as they could with what they had, it was what they lacked that prevented them from going further. What it all boils down to for me is that their chins betrayed them in their prime and despite all their obvious abilities they could never regain their past form.

[natonic]

Tyrone getting capped by his mrs at the age of 24, after apparently getting shafted in his first title fight less then a year eariler.

I just watched Tyrone Everett's fight with Escalera (it's on Youtube). I had him over Escalera by 5 points and I was generous to Escalera. No way Everett lost that fight. He could've been a great. He would've been a stylistic nightmare for Arguello.

[TIGEREDGE]

some would say mike tyson but i think he proved he was great pre prison

[mrplow182]

Tyson could have been greater....but he is already a legend

Someone like Chris Eubank was never a risk taker in his prime years yet his skillset was very very good. Too many domestic wars not enough worldwide success, exposure or will to fight in the USA.

Naseem Hamed is an example of a guy who could have been even better

[Seamus]

I alway have thought that Joel Casamayor had a very complete game and never got the right breaks or appreciation for how good he was.

[PowerPuncher]

I alway have thought that Joel Casamayor had a very complete game and never got the right breaks or appreciation for how good he was.

Yes I was a big Casa fan, thought he beat Freitas, Corrales and Castillo, he would have beat Marquez prime for prime too

[PowerPuncher]

Naseem Hamed is an example of a guy who could have been even better

Hamed should have done so many things differently, he still was a FW champ for 6years unifying all belts and beating champs for 126/122/118, despite losing dedication

This was a 5'4 naturally small FW who started at Fly and could have stayed at Bantamweight his career. They should have put him forward for the WBC Super-Bantam crown because he would have decapitated Zaragoza but it was a harder fight to make than the Robinson 1.

Hamed degraded from a fleet footed combination thrower to a flat footed power puncher hungry slugger who barely trained. Hamed would have certainly beaten the Pre-Junior Jones brawling Barrera, but he may have beaten any version of Barrera if he actually prepared properly. His lack of training was well documented

[jaffay]

Mike Tyson, Riddick Bowe, Andrew Golota

[Flea Man]

Hamed should have done so many things differently, he still was a FW champ for 6years unifying all belts and beating champs for 126/122/118, despite losing dedication

This was a 5'4 naturally small FW who started at Fly and could have stayed at Bantamweight his career. They should have put him forward for the WBC Super-Bantam crown because he would have decapitated Zaragoza but it was a harder fight to make than the Robinson 1.

Hamed degraded from a fleet footed combination thrower to a flat footed power puncher hungry slugger who barely trained. Hamed would have certainly beaten the Pre-Junior Jones brawling Barrera, but he may have beaten any version of Barrera if he actually prepared properly. His lack of training was well documented

:goodGreat post. Personally I rate Hamed as an ATG, H2H he ranks amongst the best at FW, very good resume but some would argue he never beat an Elite figther or indeed a top-level performer in their prime.

However, I would say he is an ATG, but as most don't, in response to this thread, I'd say Hamed.

[PowerPuncher]

:goodGreat post. Personally I rate Hamed as an ATG, H2H he ranks amongst the best at FW, very good resume but some would argue he never beat an Elite figther or indeed a top-level performer in their prime.

However, I would say he is an ATG, but as most don't, in response to this thread, I'd say Hamed.

I rate him as an ATG too, Vasquez was a 3weight champ, Bungu the most proven at 122, he dominated top5 FWs like Kelly/Johnson/Soto/Vasquez/Medina, H2H hes very strong at 118-126. Yet some say he was exposed by the first elite he faced

Despite his achievements he could have been so much more.

Plus he retired as a 27yo, he still could have had a great career, if he'd been hungry I think he could scalp Morales/Pacquaio/Marquez with the right preperation. He was at his worst against Barrera and the style of MAB was all wrong, the other 3 are much more easier to hit than MAB, plus Morales lost worse than Hamed to Barrera but got a gift

Apparently HBO didn't want to air a vocal Muslim after Sep11th, Hamed also said he got many death threats. Plus he had £50-£100million in the bank. If you had death threats and couldn't get big paydays anymore (because of HBO), why bother?

[JohnThomas1]

Some of these guys are so close to great many might accept them.....

Edwin Rosario (Didn't develop and became power reliant at about the same time)

Greg Page (All the talent on earth but incredibly small desire the most part)

Eddie Mustafa Muhammad (Incredible tools but just lacked the true greatness of fire within)

Hector Camacho (IMO lacked love of the battle and true guts deep down)

Mike McCallum (Ironically the factor (lack of opportunity) that makes him fall short also may have found him short regardless)

Dwight Braxton (Unfortunately run parallel an even greater fighter he probably needed to beat)



Howard Davis and Mark Breland held HUGE hopes too but were found wanting when push came to shove.

[mcvey]

:goodGreat post. Personally I rate Hamed as an ATG, H2H he ranks amongst the best at FW, very good resume but some would argue he never beat an Elite figther or indeed a top-level performer in their prime.

However, I would say he is an ATG, but as most don't, in response to this thread, I'd say Hamed.
I didnt rate him very highly and won some dough when Barrera schooled him,which made it doubly enjoyable as I think he is an obnoxious little arsehole.ATG ? NO WAY!

[Holmes' Jab]

Some of these guys are so close to great many might accept them.....

Edwin Rosario (Didn't develop and became power reliant at about the same time)

Greg Page (All the talent on earth but incredibly small desire the most part)

Eddie Mustafa Muhammad (Incredible tools but just lacked the true greatness of fire within)

Hector Camacho (IMO lacked love of the battle and true guts deep down)

Mike McCallum (Ironically the factor (lack of opportunity) that makes him fall short also may have found him short regardless)

Dwight Braxton (Unfortunately run parallel an even greater fighter he probably needed to beat)



Howard Davis and Mark Breland held HUGE hopes too but were found wanting when push came to shove.


Top choices, mate. I'd have guessed what your HW choice was goin to be (I'd agree in terms of ability, in terms of 80's 'lost era' I also thought that Dokes was capable of doing a fair bit more). Other fighters who I'd consider who 'could've been great' in my list would be:


Jack Sharkey
Antonio Tarver
Max Baer
Zab Judah
Montel Griffin
Razor Ruddock

[Russell]

Reggie Johnson comes to mind.

[Robbi]

Meldrick Taylor.

[Holmes' Jab]

Meldrick Taylor.


Yes, actually. Perhaps the most obvious one. :good

[DINAMITA]

Montell Griffin?

I disagree on Hamed. Saying: "He could've been a great if he had far more technical skills and far better defence" is basically saying "He could've been a great if he was much better at boxing", which can basically be applied to any boxer in history!

Despite the flashy KOs of bum after bum, the fact is the guy never had it at the top level.

[PowerPuncher]

Montell Griffin?

I disagree on Hamed. Saying: "He could've been a great if he had far more technical skills and far better defence" is basically saying "He could've been a great if he was much better at boxing", which can basically be applied to any boxer in history!

Despite the flashy KOs of bum after bum, the fact is the guy never had it at the top level.

Firstly no one said 'if he had better technical skills' because he was technically better when he was younger, he threw combos, threw bodyshots and was far more elusive and very hard to hit, plus his counters were so so sharp.

How is clearing out your division, 'never fighting at the top level'???

[PowerPuncher]

Arguably Charles Burley could be in this category, most don't rate him or know him, had he his shot at the WW and MW titles, and got his shot at Sugar Ray it would be far different

[DINAMITA]

Firstly no one said 'if he had better technical skills' because he was technically better when he was younger, he threw combos, threw bodyshots and was far more elusive and very hard to hit, plus his counters were so so sharp.

How is clearing out your division, 'never fighting at the top level'???

I can answer both of these points with a question: ever heard of a little thing called "resume"?

[Robbi]

I'll also include Ken Buchanan. He was marginally great, but could have been greater. I'm just looking at it from his angle to be potentially greater.

[Curtis Lowe]

Some of these guys are so close to great many might accept them.....

Edwin Rosario (Didn't develop and became power reliant at about the same time)

Greg Page (All the talent on earth but incredibly small desire the most part)

Eddie Mustafa Muhammad (Incredible tools but just lacked the true greatness of fire within)

Hector Camacho (IMO lacked love of the battle and true guts deep down)

Mike McCallum (Ironically the factor (lack of opportunity) that makes him fall short also may have found him short regardless)

Dwight Braxton (Unfortunately run parallel an even greater fighter he probably needed to beat)



Howard Davis and Mark Breland held HUGE hopes too but were found wanting when push came to shove.

That's a very good list for this topic. Eddie Gregory could have been one of the alltime greats at light heavy. If he would have had the heart and desire of a Matt Franklin he would have been very special.

[chimba]

(IMO lacked love of the battle and true guts deep down)

Mike McCallum (Ironically the factor (lack of opportunity) that makes him fall short also may have found him short regardless)





McCallum is great. Popular no

[Robbi]

McCallum is great. Popular no

I think what JT is trying to say is that McCallum could have been greater, especially if he got marquee type fights. The thread question is a matter of opinion, so I guess it's just how a certain poster defines exactly how great.

[PowerPuncher]

I can answer both of these points with a question: ever heard of a little thing called "resume"?

Yes and Hamed's is underrated, all the top fighters at 126 including a 3weight champ, beat all the belt holders - WBC/WBA/IBF/WBO, the top 122lb titlist of 7years in Bungu who was more proven than MAB at that time, a 118lb titlist

[Mantequilla]

Conteh and Benny Lynch

[AREA 53]

John Conteh ( Hand & Management Troubles surfaced )

Esteban De Jusus ( If it wasnt for Mr Duran...?)

Harold "Shadow" Knight ( Great Fight with Rocky Lockridge then had to retire with Eye trouble )

[Smith]

Walter McGowan is a lesser obvious one whom many of you will barely have heard of. Yes he was a world champion, but he suffered horrendously throughout his career on cuts. If his face wasn't so easily shredded, he could have been ranked up alongside Benny Lynch as one of the greatest fly's there has been in my opinion. He was an absolute fantastic amatuer as well. He never fell short due to skill or heart thats for sure.

[Robbi]

Walter McGowan is a lesser obvious one whom many of you will barely have heard of. Yes he was a world champion, but he suffered horrendously throughout his career on cuts. If his face wasn't so easily shredded, he could have been ranked up alongside Benny Lynch as one of the greatest fly's there has been in my opinion. He was an absolute fantastic amatuer as well. He never fell short due to skill or heart thats for sure.

Peter Keenan was good as well.

[Smith]

Peter Keenan was good as well.Superb bantamweight, he very much ranks up there with some of the best boxers that ever lived not to win a world championshiip.:good

[Minotauro]

Toney could have done more.

[Kaki]

Matthew Saad Muhammad.

[Steve o]

steve collins? perhaps a member of a whole group of nearly men? watson, eubank benn etc

[Sweet Pea]

Matthew Saad Muhammad.I don't really think he fell short. I think he did pretty much all that he could've in his career and was indeed a great fighter.

[godking]

Mike Tyson, Riddick Bowe, Andrew GolotaTyson is already a Great and a lower top 10 ATG though he could have been better had he kept his dedication. Tyson physically is perhaps the most complete HW ever other then height he had everything.

[Russell]

steve collins? perhaps a member of a whole group of nearly men? watson, eubank benn etc

Collin's problem was a lack of world level talent. He's actually a fighter who maximized what he did have.

[Flea Man]

Both McGowan and John Conteh are very good choices indeed :good

[leverage]

howard davis jr., edwin rosario, greg page, tim witherspoon, hector camacho sr.

[red cobra]

I didnt rate him very highly and won some dough when Barrera schooled him,which made it doubly enjoyable as I think he is an obnoxious little arsehole.ATG ? NO WAY!
I rate Barrera's victory over Hamed as one of the most satisfying master performances of all time...pity it wasn't for 15 rounds, like in the old days. In the the ring that night there was one atg, and it wasn't Hamed.

[WhataRock]

Joe Cortez is probably an ATG referee. I agree.

[MAG1965]

Don CurryWhat I was thinking. He sure went down after Honeyghan beat him. Then McCallum beat him soon after. 2 knockout losses in one year.

[Mantequilla]

I rate Barrera's victory over Hamed as one of the most satisfying master performances of all time...pity it wasn't for 15 rounds, like in the old days. In the the ring that night there was one atg, and it wasn't Hamed.

there weren't any all-time greats;).

[catasyou]

Max Baer

[dabox]

Sergei Kobozev

[TIGEREDGE]

I didnt rate him very highly and won some dough when Barrera schooled him,which made it doubly enjoyable as I think he is an obnoxious little arsehole.ATG ? NO WAY!

i agree and also won some money on that fight.

he was too flawed fundamentally to step up to the elite level of the sport. the greats like sanchez, saddler and pep would of badly exploited these flaws

[TIGEREDGE]

Firstly no one said 'if he had better technical skills' because he was technically better when he was younger, he threw combos, threw bodyshots and was far more elusive and very hard to hit, plus his counters were so so sharp.

How is clearing out your division, 'never fighting at the top level'???

he never cleaned out his division. he never fought Juan Manual Marquez, Lusito Espinosa, freddie norwood. dereck gainer. he give up his ibf title to avoid marquez and don't tell me there was no point in fighting espinosa. lusito destroyed kennedy mckinney in 1998. mckinney was lined up to fight Naz. he was an established champ

naz only fought kevin kelly and tom johnson when they were on the shot side. kelly nearly shot him down. that fight really exposed naz

vuyani bungu was inactive for 2 years before he fought naz and was moving up in weight

the rest he beat where nothing to brag

[la-califa]

Eddie Mustafa Muhammed, If he defeated Spinks in thier proposed Nonfight. His stock would have went up dramatically.

Or Braxton same situation if he defeated Spinks and later Holyfield.

[TIGEREDGE]

esteban de jesus and ken buchanan. both were great great fightters who were unfortunate to come along when a certain top 3 ATG fighter came along

they will never be credited with greatness because of this

fernando vargas could of been if he hadnt of had so many hard fights early on

riddick bowe is one who had all the tools for greatness.

[GPater11093]

meldrick taylor, the potential he had was amazing

fernando vargas, same

[Sweet Pea]

I don't really agree with Taylor either, but guys like Conteh, Mustafa Muhammad, etc. all had the goods. Everyone knows I agree with Bowe as well.

[GPater11093]

I don't really agree with Taylor either, but guys like Conteh, Mustafa Muhammad, etc. all had the goods. Everyone knows I agree with Bowe as well.

why not

[Sweet Pea]

why notHe'd have always been the same type of fighter, and would've always been vulnerable to the bigger punchers. Very exciting fighter no doubt, but it takes more than great handspeed to make a great fighter, and he had too many liabilities.

[GPater11093]

He'd have always been the same type of fighter, and would've always been vulnerable to the bigger punchers. Very exciting fighter no doubt, but it takes more than great handspeed to make a great fighter, and he had too many liabilities.

he had great heart and boxing skills to go along with that handspeed, i agree he was vunreable but look what he did to Chavez for 11 rounds out boxed him and out fought him that is a sign of a champion. a great champion.

I can see where your coming from but i think he could have become a top 50 P4P with his skillset and physical ability.

[Sweet Pea]

he had great heart and boxing skills to go along with that handspeed, i agree he was vunreable but look what he did to Chavez for 11 rounds out boxed him and out fought him that is a sign of a champion. a great champion.

I can see where your coming from but i think he could have become a top 50 P4P with his skillset and physical ability.He had the physical tools, but I don't believe he had the skill-set. Too much of a fighter's mentality to hang with most of the bigger punching types that I mentioned. Chavez fought a very good fight there as well, people tend to overlook how well he did. Taylor outlanded and thus outscored him due to his handspeed, but Chavez was in the fight the whole way through, just grinding him down.

[GPater11093]

He had the physical tools, but I don't believe he had the skill-set. Too much of a fighter's mentality to hang with most of the bigger punching types that I mentioned. Chavez fought a very good fight there as well, people tend to overlook how well he did. Taylor outlanded and thus outscored him due to his handspeed, but Chavez was in the fight the whole way through, just grinding him down.

yeh i know Chavez was a clever guy in that fight they way he wore him down.

you dont belive he had the skillset he looks pretty skillfull to me he outboxed Chavez which aint easy. i agree about the mentality do you think coming from Philly developed this

[PowerPuncher]

he never cleaned out his division. he never fought Juan Manual Marquez, Lusito Espinosa, freddie norwood. dereck gainer. he give up his ibf title to avoid marquez and don't tell me there was no point in fighting espinosa. lusito destroyed kennedy mckinney in 1998. mckinney was lined up to fight Naz. he was an established champ

naz only fought kevin kelly and tom johnson when they were on the shot side. kelly nearly shot him down. that fight really exposed naz

vuyani bungu was inactive for 2 years before he fought naz and was moving up in weight

the rest he beat where nothing to brag

Hamed beat Soto who beat Espinosa anyway

Marquez barely earned a top10 ranking and may have got his shot but priced himself out and lost to Norwood. And no Hamed didn't give up the IBF to avoid Marquez, he gave it up to fight better fighters than Lizarraga who won the title

The other names you give are pretty spurious. Gainer was coming off a loss to Corrales and only established himself in 2000. Norwood would only be a 2year titlist himself losing to Gainer, Hamed fought bigger fights during this 2year period

There was no indication Kelly/Johnson were particularly past prime pre-Hamed and Bungu was innactive for 16months not 2years

[la-califa]

Ken Norton got the nod over Ali in thier third fight & against Holmes, his legacy would be much different.

[Sweet Pea]

yeh i know Chavez was a clever guy in that fight they way he wore him down.

you dont belive he had the skillset he looks pretty skillfull to me he outboxed Chavez which aint easy. i agree about the mentality do you think coming from Philly developed thisIt's pretty well known that the Philly fighter mentality ran strongly through his veins. I do believe he was a skilled fighter, but he didn't really outbox Chavez per se, he more or less just outlanded him (though he was doing his fair share of fine boxing early on) due to his handspeed advantage and ability to fire off combos that much quicker.

[Drew101]

Samart Payakaroon could have reigned at 122lbs for a long time had it not been for Fenech. Ditto Victor Callejas.

Alberto Davila was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but in other eras, could have been a dominant bantamweight champion.

[JohnThomas1]

Samart Payakaroon could have reigned at 122lbs for a long time had it not been for Fenech. Ditto Victor Callejas.

Alberto Davila was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but in other eras, could have been a dominant bantamweight champion.

Great mentions.

[My2Sense]

Eddie Mustafa Muhammad (Incredible tools but just lacked the true greatness of fire within)


First one that came to my mind. He might've beaten either Galindez and/or Spinks had he been in better shape and more motivated. Imagine having either one of them on his resume.


Has anyone mentioned Lionel Rose? Ultra talented, gritty, and had a ton of heart. Went to Japan on short notice and handed out a boxing lesson to Fighting Harada. Had an impressive championship run, despite it being so brief. Had trouble keeping his weight down, and after losing the title to Olivares he just let his weight completely balloon. Years after he was basically shot, he managed to work his way back into contention all the way up at 130, beat Ishi Suzuki, and lost a close title challenge to Numata - all of which hinted at the potential he really had IMO.

[My2Sense]

Samart Payakaroon could have reigned at 122lbs for a long time had it not been for Fenech.

Yeah, that guy was an amazing talent.

Beat a former world champion in his pro debut, KO'd Lupe Pintor with one punch, then stopped another ex-champ in Juan Meza, all within his first 10-15 fights. :shock: The Fenech KO is one of the most brutal I've ever seen, not surprising that he was never the same again (he probably should never have even fought again).

[GPater11093]

It's pretty well known that the Philly fighter mentality ran strongly through his veins. I do believe he was a skilled fighter, but he didn't really outbox Chavez per se, he more or less just outlanded him (though he was doing his fair share of fine boxing early on) due to his handspeed advantage and ability to fire off combos that much quicker.

you need boxing skills to go to the olympics and win them

i can see what you are saying he definitly outlanded him but i think he outboxed him too

[JohnThomas1]

First one that came to my mind. He might've beaten either Galindez and/or Spinks had he been in better shape and more motivated. Imagine having either one of them on his resume.


Completely agree. More fire in the belly and Mustafa could have done anything.

[Thread Stealer]

I don't know about Meldrick Taylor being a great, although he was a terrific fighter, I think the best case scenario for him would've been one of those "great for a short period of time" type fighters. I have a tough time seeing longevity for him, Chavez or no Chavez.

For one, he simply took too much punishment in general, and I can imagine he was a Philly gym war type of fighter too.

Also, he said he had weight problems at 140 (he had a pretty stocky frame), and moved up to 147 in 1991 (beating Davis for a title). He did make 140 in 1994 for the Chavez rematch, but that might've just been a last-ditch effort for a big fight as his time was running down.

With the immense talent level at 147 in the early to mid 90s (Tito and Whitaker became champs in 1993, Quartey in 1994, DLH in 1997), it's hard to picture him reigning as a champ for awhile (provided he took part in a unification bout).

With his style, and the talent at 147, his career (unless he was protected from the top fighters) wouldn't have been too long at the highest level.

[Thread Stealer]

Hector Camacho Sr. What a waste.

[downthatbottle]

Vitali Klitschko

[Duodenum]

Dwight Davison looked like the next big thing in the middleweight division when he dropped Curtis Parker from the unbeaten ranks on NBC's Friday Night Fights. Then, he inexplicably performed a walking tank job as a 12 round punching bag for Tony Sibson, who then got the shot at Hagler. I am not convinced that Sibson would have won if Davison had applied himself the way he did with Parker. Davison might have become the first challenger to last the 15 round distance with Hagler.

Davison had size, tremendous physical strength at 6'1" (with a high school wrestling background), good mobility, skills and power. He should have been a super middleweight champion. No drive or hunger. A real waste of potential.

[jaywheel]

Davey Hilton jr., the most talented of the family. If he would have been serious around 85-86, he would have been world champ before and longer than his brother Matthew.

Instead he wasted 15 years of his carrer to finally win a lackluster victory over a faded Thobela to capture a WBC title he couldn't even defend once going to jail.

His brother Matthew, probably one of the greatest body puncher ever at 154 lbs, would not have lost his IBF title to Robert Hines had he been in shape.

That family's story is a sad one tough I don't feel they deserve pity.

[JohnThomas1]

Dwight Davison looked like the next big thing in the middleweight division when he dropped Curtis Parker from the unbeaten ranks on NBC's Friday Night Fights. Then, he inexplicably performed a walking tank job as a 12 round punching bag for Tony Sibson, who then got the shot at Hagler. I am not convinced that Sibson would have won if Davison had applied himself the way he did with Parker. Davison might have become the first challenger to last the 15 round distance with Hagler.

Davison had size, tremendous physical strength at 6'1" (with a high school wrestling background), good mobility, skills and power. He should have been a super middleweight champion. No drive or hunger. A real waste of potential.

Dwight could have been very decent, but like many of the the heavies of his era he was a lazy unispired prick. I had BIG hopes for Alex Ramos myself but he too fell short. Bit of a mad rooter tho.

[Duodenum]

Dwight could have been very decent, but like many of the the heavies of his era he was a lazy unispired prick. I had BIG hopes for Alex Ramos myself but he too fell short. Bit of a mad rooter tho.Ramos also had great personal charisma, and could have been a tremendous superstar. (He was also fluent in Spanish, something which could have boosted his popularity significantly in that culture as well.) Superb hook.

[JohnThomas1]

Ramos also had great personal charisma, and could have been a tremendous superstar. (He was also fluent in Spanish, something which could have boosted his popularity significantly in that culture as well.) Superb hook.


Would you beleive me if i told you Ramos at one time was rated by the Ring as quite likely having the hardest punch with either hand in the 160 divison?? :yikes

I still remember the stories surrounding his first loss to trailhorse Teddy Sanders. Ramos was sneaking out his window at night going over the the girlfriends for some mad rooting :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

I'm sure that was the story, care to qualify me :D

[Duodenum]

Would you believe me if i told you Ramos at one time was rated by the Ring as quite likely having the hardest punch with either hand in the 160 divison?? :yikesI wasn't following the Ring at that time, so will take you at your word. I do remember his hook taking out a Cuban in the amateurs.I still remember the stories surrounding his first loss to trailhorse Teddy Sanders. Ramos was sneaking out his window at night going over the the girlfriends for some mad rooting :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

I'm sure that was the story, care to qualify me :DI don't recall that, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. My sister and her girlfriends were all a-twitter over him.

[JohnThomas1]

I wasn't following the Ring at that time, so will take you at your word. I do remember his hook taking out a Cuban in the amateurs.I don't recall that, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. My sister and her girlfriends were all a-twitter over him.


Take both to the bank friend. The ring mag was the yearly or whatever where they had EVERY top 10 fighter summed up. Arguello on front i reckon.

[Titan1]

howard davis jr., edwin rosario, greg page, tim witherspoon, hector camacho sr.


Would've loved to see Howard fight a Saoul Mamby, or Billy Costello, maybe that title may have come around.

[80s champs]

Hearns is great and a real legend,but those loses to leonard and Hagler kept him from becomming one of the greatest ever.

[Nazarene]

Yeah, that guy was an amazing talent.

Beat a former world champion in his pro debut, KO'd Lupe Pintor with one punch, then stopped another ex-champ in Juan Meza, all within his first 10-15 fights. :shock: The Fenech KO is one of the most brutal I've ever seen, not surprising that he was never the same again (he probably should never have even fought again).
2 be fair to the other guys samart was already a muay thai king

[My2Sense]

EDIT: Nevermind, I already posted in this thread.

[TonyT]

I'm on my cell I browsed thru quickly. Tony Ayala Jr - though he went bad still he would of been something special. For some reason I am now thinking of large juicy Tits.