was this fight ever filmed???

[shommel]

the lamotta vs janiro fight? if so who has it and how can i get a copy of it?

[shommel]

any help anybody?

[Mendoza]

the lamotta vs janiro fight? if so who has it and how can i get a copy of it?

Was this the Madsion SquareGarden fight LaMotta threw? That one was filmed. I saw it.

[OBCboxer]

This was the one where LaMotta destroyed Janiro because his wife said he was good looking.

Wife: "He's good looking, he's up and coming"

Jake: "What do you mean by that?"

[apollack]

LaMotta threw the Billy Fox fight.

[Mendoza]

LaMotta threw the Billy Fox fight.

Ah yes. That was the one I was thinking of. I saw that fight. No doubt it was a fix. Jake just isn't doing much. He had to throw the fight to get a title shot. Boxing was very shady in the 1950's and the IBC days.

[klompton]

Ah yes. That was the one I was thinking of. I saw that fight. No doubt it was a fix. Jake just isn't doing much. He had to throw the fight to get a title shot. Boxing was very shady in the 1950's and the IBC days.


You saw it live? Because that fight doesnt exist on film...

[Raging B(_)LL]

This fight doesn`t exist on film shommel. The 5th Robinson/LaMotta fight does however, I`ve got just under one minute of that footage.

[teeto]

This fight doesn`t exist on film shommel. The 5th Robinson/LaMotta fight does however, I`ve got just under one minute of that footage.
Really? You're the man to help me with this one RB, got a query here. Ages ago i saw this thing on the internet somewhere, it was Robinson Lamotta 4, it was for sale, looked like a video, but thats not filmed is it? Maybe i was a book, it was years ago. (or maybe i got my roman numerals mixed up?! IV VI, i was young like!)

[Raging B(_)LL]

Really? You're the man to help me with this one RB, got a query here. Ages ago i saw this thing on the internet somewhere, it was Robinson Lamotta 4, it was for sale, looked like a video, but thats not filmed is it? Maybe i was a book, it was years ago. (or maybe i got my roman numerals mixed up?! IV VI, i was young like!)

teeto,

I never seen this fight (#5) listed anywhere on the net, and knowing my source he would have never posted it online anyways. Took me forever to get this snippet of footage, but it was worth the wait as the footage is crystal clear and shows LaMotta giving Ray a good going over against the ropes in one of the later rounds. I hope to get the full fight someday, but for now I`m more than happy with what I`ve got. And before anyone asks I can`t trade this HL... gave my word that I`d keep it to myself and I have to honour that.

[flamengo]

teeto,

I never seen this fight (#5) listed anywhere on the net, and knowing my source he would have never posted it online anyways. Took me forever to get this snippet of footage, but it was worth the wait as the footage is crystal clear and shows LaMotta giving Ray a good going over against the ropes in one of the later rounds. I hope to get the full fight someday, but for now I`m more than happy with what I`ve got. And before anyone asks I can`t trade this HL... gave my word that I`d keep it to myself and I have to honour that.

What the hell are you talking about???? keeping it to yourself??? I have the entire rounds 5,7,8,11 on tape. Would you like a copy????

[Woller]

I would certainly love to have one.

Woller
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[teeto]

RB- sounds great

Flamengo, sounds great!

[Raging B(_)LL]

What the hell are you talking about???? keeping it to yourself??? I have the entire rounds 5,7, 8,11 on tape. Would you like a copy????

Did you get the footage from Steve Lott? Besides my source he is the only other person to my knowledge who would have this film, and I remember you mentioning in an old thread that you had dealt with him several years back when you contacted him in your search for some Young Griffo footage. Check your pms flamengo as I have some things to disscuss with you.

[flamengo]

....

[flamengo]

RB- sounds great

Flamengo, sounds great!


Apologies Teeto.

[flamengo]

any help anybody?


apologies Shommel.

[Raging B(_)LL]

...

[flamengo]

You idiot... please post my response now...... and the first sucker punch.

[flamengo]

That last paragraph reads brilliantly... hey... partner.

You idiot.

[Raging B(_)LL]

Raging Bullshit... You asked myself via a PM... for some footage.. You idiot... a sucker has been sucked in. How much of a fight fan are you pal?? You suggest to have the 'limited available footage', which no one else can view.. because you're a greedy dog.. then, inturn, request some footage that doesn't exist from myself. Make your footage available to others.. atleast give an indication of validity for others to see. What the use of with holding these films.. just like Jacobs/Cayton and Lott (the moron, big nosed cock smoker) would do??? Money?? of course. Tight bunch of toss pots.

You kissed my butt in the PM and try to make a deal... you half witted clown. Mate, Im a 37 year old fight fan... with some great footage, that has the right to be exposed to all and sundry... free to all, and has been , made available as often as possible.

If you happen across Steve Lott... tell him to kiss his mutts behind. The dog aquired the stolen 'Johnny Famechon' Ring Magazinge belt... then accepted close to $10G's for its return... in the early '90s....

Do yourself a favoure.. release the fight footage to us normal folk. Give yourself some value.


flamengo,

Since you seem to be in a pissy and confrontational mood and are clearly trying to embarass me in front of everyone allow me to make a few thigns very clear to you.First off, what I have in my possession was GIVEN to me under the understanding that it is not to be passed on to anyone else, and since I have known this person for close to a decade it would be dishounorable of me to break my promise to this man.

And another reason why I won`t release this film or some of the other films I have is for this same reason, sometimes you are given something by someone under the condition that it is not to be passed on and as a man of my word I tend to keep my promises. Also, some of the rare footage I have I bought myself for what are to me considerable sums of money, and some of that footage I have released over the years.

I don`t know about you, but I don`t go around sharing footage I`ve paid several hundred dollars for to just any Tom, Dick and Harry like its some regular Tyson or Ali fight, where the fuck is your head? When you pay good money on a shit salary like the one I`m making to acquire some rare films which took years to find and years to convince the owners of said footage to even be willing to sell them to me and at a steep price to boot then you can say something to me, until then why don`t you shut your fucking piehole and piss off.

I have shared a lot of what I have in my possession and several people on this very site will attest to that, because unlike you are trying to imply I am ratehr generous with my collection but the people who know me well understand my position on these matters and respect it unlike you. And yes I agree it sucks to have to withhold footage and not be able to share with others, I agree completely with you but alas its something that needs to be done.

The reason for that is quite simple, and that is because if all of a sudden everyone has a Greb fight for example, then its value as a bargaining chip for other fight films goes down to nil. This is the reality of trading fight films, if you have something rare in your possession hold onto at least some of it to use for acquiring some equaly rare footage, because most of the collectors who have the really good stuff are well off and won`t take money, but they will swap film however if you have something of interest to them.

I can keep going on and on here on this subject as I`ve been trading and acquiring fight films since I was 12 yes TWELVE years old, so I know what the fuck I am talking about here and have made numerous contacts over the years thru my persistence and passion for this beautiful sport, and since I do not wish to burn the bridges that I worked so hard to establish and maintain by releasing footage that was asked to be kept to myself by those who gave it to me, I think you will understand when I tell you to kindly fuck off and go to hell and keep your mouth shut before trying to put someone on the spot like you did with me, these tactics tend to backfire more often than not. I tried to reach out to you and see if you could help me in my quest to get some rare stuff, seems like you were only interested in acting like an ass, shame.

[Raging B(_)LL]

You idiot... please post my response now...... and the first sucker punch.

Why don`t you post it yourself kangaroo jack? You`ve got the pm in your sent box, do the work yourself you immature cunt.

[Raging B(_)LL]

That last paragraph reads brilliantly... hey... partner.

You idiot.

Your a real classy fellow, aren`t you?

[flamengo]

Why don`t you post it yourself kangaroo jack? You`ve got the pm in your sent box, do the work yourself you immature cunt.

Im not the DEFENDANT... stupid!!!!

[Raging B(_)LL]

Im not the DEFENDANT... stupid!!!!

I`m done with you, and this is not the people`s court pal, its an internet forum. I`ll let my reputation and replys to you speak for themselves, that is all.

[flamengo]

Your post is ludicrous.... who has the right to profit from fight films??? Unless its shown in a public forum with financial gain?? Or marketed for the same reason?? Both avenues are typically as bad...

keep the film.. firmly plant it in your own 'undisclosed' location, as its serving the same minimal purpose of your own satisfaction... Ironically, at the first mention of 'other' footage being suggested, you come running like a oversized shoe flapping clown, suffering the indignation of being a bigger clown than assumed, and selfishly hoping to control... (me and you).... any other films made available. You idiot. You're a saleman.. a poor one at that.. very unconvincing.. and looking rather ridiculous. Im bored slagging you off. Thanks for the dance Princess..

For the sake of the viewing arena... put the footage on 'youtube'... nothing has value, unless its unearthed.

[Raging B(_)LL]

Your post is ludicrous.... who has the right to profit from fight films??? Unless its shown in a public forum with financial gain?? Or marketed for the same reason?? Both avenues are typically as bad...

keep the film.. firmly plant it in your own 'undisclosed' location, as its serving the same minimal purpose of your own satisfaction... Ironically, at the first mention of 'other' footage being suggested, you come running like a oversized shoe flapping clown, suffering the indignation of being a bigger clown than assumed, and selfishly hoping to control... (me and you).... any other films made available. You idiot. You're a saleman.. a poor one at that.. very unconvincing.. and looking rather ridiculous. Im bored slagging you off. Thanks for the dance Princess..

For the sake of the viewing arena... put the footage on 'youtube'... nothing has value, unless its unearthed.

Your 37 years old yet reply in this manner? Hell, my 9 year old stepson shows more maturity than you judging by your replys to me so far, grow up man, seriously. And if you are so keen on acquiring rare films, maybe if you or anyone else here for that matter put in HALF the effort I have over the years to acquire films then maybe you would have something to show for it instead of coming onto an internet forum and embarassing yourself in an immature and misguided attempt at embarassing someone else because they have footage you don`t.

Again, grow the fuck up and act like an adult, your only succeeding in making yourself look more and more foolish with each successive response to me in this thread.

[flamengo]

OOPS.. jeez. I must have embarassed myself... did your 9 y/o nephew suggest that??

Mate... I'm 37.. just a pup in the eyes of many......

When it comes to possesion, in the true sense, we are mere custodians of anything. Stop being greedy.. stop being a sulk..


Ok... I'll do a deal.. if intersted. I'd ask for a PM.. but, its an open forum... I'll trade Ali/Foreman on DVD for the 'one min' you have.. Ali/Foreman is worthy.... well, it would be if assholes like you obtained it prior to world wide release.

Have a nice weekend mate.

[GPater11093]

lads stop fighting

Flamengo, Raging_B_ll is a nice guy and i can understand where you are coming from. It would be good if people with rare films shared them out to people, i know i would. But he did agree with people not to share them and i would not share them as i am a man of my word too. As for buying fights Bull has doen theis and tehy obviously cost him alot of time and money to get and he feels he shouldnt just share it out. I dont agree with this but can see why he does it.
I agre people should share out film among other fight fans to stop amazing fighters and fights being lost in time. I do think some collectors are greedy but the world isnt perfect. In a pefect world we would all share fight films but there are other factors such as money and time taking to get films. i one day hope to acquire a lare collection of fights and release them to people but thats just me.

Guys just stop fighting please were all boxing fans and should treat each other like the boxers in the films are with each other. They show respect. So lads stop the bickering and sort it out please.

[Rui]

I also understand where flamengo is coming from in terms of how great it would be if everyone would share their rare fight films, but Craig has been nothing less than of gentleman when we spoke and I felt that any attacks on his character are unwarranted.

If you spend your hard-earned money and time on rare fight films, then it becomes somewhat of an investment. That's the way people need to look at it.

If you uncovered some Greb fight footage and knew full well the invaluable gem you possessed, would you seriously upload it onto youtube? Call me pragmatic, but I'm just a simple college student without a steady job -- so I'm going to sell that sucker and make some extra cash. Yeah, it would be nice to upload some never-before-seen footage for all you guys here, but seriously, how many of you are willing to help pay for my tuition? Exactly. Don't take it personally, but until you guys pitch in and pay for my schooling, I think I'd rather look out for myself.

Raging B(_)LL worked hard to come across whatever he has in his possession; he owes us nothing. If he decides to share his rare footage, he's only hurting himself financially (I don't think I need to explain why). I would love to see some footage of Robinson/LaMotta V, but then I'd be the selfish one. I'm not going to mooch off of someone else's hard work and financial investment.

Just my two cents.

[klompton]

Without calling into question anyones character Id have to see it to believe it. Ive heard claims for years of various clips of the different LaMotta-Robinson fights and they ALWAYS without fail turn out to be alternate versions of the sixth fight. Im on friendly terms with most of the major film collectors in the US and some abroad and I have to feel that with the money these guys are willing to offer and the reputations they have if such a film were available it would have surfaced.

On a side note, for what its worth, Steve Lott is one of the nicest gentlemen in boxing and its a shame some on here have chosen to disparage him.

That being said I also understand where raging bull is coming from on not just letting anyone see his stuff. Since when is he obligated to show anything from his collection to anyone? Do you honestly think there arent masterpieces of art or antiquities in private collections all over the world that have never and may never be seen by the eyes of the general public? Those things you could even publish a photo of or a copy of and it wouldnt greatly diminish its valuable. With a boxing film the viewing experience is the value, owning the film is meaningless and a copy even less than that. I understand people being angry that they cant view these things but some of us work extremely hard and spend lots of money and time finding this stuff and once its been traded all over creation where the quality is watered down to shit or anyone can have a copy simply by pressing the click of a button it really invalidates a lot of the hard work that went into finding and acquiring this stuff. My only suggestion is to start looking and preserving this stuff on your own then you have a bargaining chip for further trades, you will also understand where collectors are coming from.

Now, I have an exhibition between Jimmy Wilde and Joe Lynch from 1919 that I need to work on getting...

[flamengo]

...

[klompton]

First off Steve Lott didnt own Cayton and Jacobs collection so if Famechon's belt was in that collection it wasnt up to him to decide whether it went to anyone. Lott didnt sell the collection to anyone and he didnt sell the belt to Arnold. He may have handled the sale for Cayton's estate but it wouldnt have been his to give to anyone.

Furthermore, the Cayton-Jacobs collection was not even catalogued until after it was sold to ESPN. Your talking about tens of thousands of fights. As such Lott has little if any control over who gets what and when and may not have even known where to begin looking for a Griffo fight even IF it was in the collection. What people dont understand is that ESPN makes almost no money from the airing of those old fights. However, they can make money off of licensing the rights for people who dont own the films to use them in things like documentaries, tv shows, etc. Therefore dont you think Lott could get himself in some serious legal hot water by just giving that film to Arnold or anyone else? So hes supposed to put himself at risk, basically steal someone elses property, just because you want to watch it... for free? Isnt that why they SELL tickets to boxing events and dont just admit the public for free? As I recall these old films were filmed specifically with idea of making a profit. Am I wrong? They werent filmed so that the whole world could be charitably allowed to see them. They were in fact, the first films to actually make profits. Unfortunately they havent diminished in value over time and as such those who want to see them still have to pay for the privilege.

[Jack Dempsey]

It is an interesting debate and I can see both sides of the the argument. It is a shame that these films are not shared with a wider audience, but I can understand that if a great deal of time and effort was invested in the procuring of these films then I can understand the reticence of people to uploading it to YouTube for any Tom Dick or Harry to see.

I suppose the people to sort this out would be guys like ESPN who could actually make some money by licencing some the rare footage that they must have, to documentary/film makers instead of showing us an endless loop of the same fights week in week out.

[Raging B(_)LL]

klompton,

Thank you for chiming in, of all the people here you are the one who I know beyond a shadow of a doubt understands my position here, even if we bumped heads in the past and have differing opinions of Steve Lott. And for the other posters who stepped in to defend me, thank you as well fellas.

And believe me when I tell you that this brief HL I mentioned in this thread is indeed from their 5th encounter, this is NOT a alternate angle of the 6th fight I can assure you and anyone else, this footage is from the same source I had told you about months ago and who I`ve known for years.

I`m still working very hard on trying to get those Gavilan/SRR films, and maybe one day when I get the full fights of some of the fights I am currently pursuing, maybe then I`ll share some brief snippets of footage with the rest of the world for all to see.

But folks need to understand that when someone spends as much time and money on acquiring rare footage as I do, when the day finally comes that I have something in my possession that I worked so long and hard to acquire my first instinct isn`t to share it with the world but rather to treasure it and keep it for myself.

Why should I share something that I went thru considerable trouble and expense to get a hold of with the whole world? No one here would do the same I can guarantee it, not when you cough up big bucks to get a hold of it, your gonna want to keep that for yourself for some time at the very least before you even contemplate sharing something so expensive and valuable.

And again, somtimes you are given something rare by a fellow collector and if they ask you to keep it to yourself than you have to do so as you are bound by your word once you accept the footage under those conditions. Why betray a friend and possibly compromise a mutually beneficial partnership by betraying the other party`s trust? This makes no sense and none of you guys would do such a thing if put in the same position.

[GPater11093]

klompton,

Thank you for chiming in, of all the people here you are the one who I know beyond a shadow of a doubt understands my position here, even if we bumped heads in the past and have differing opinions of Steve Lott. And for the other posters who stepped in to defend me, thank you as well fellas.

And believe me when I tell you that this brief HL I mentioned in this thread is indeed from their 5th encounter, this is NOT a alternate angle of the 6th fight I can assure you and anyone else, this footage is from the same source I had told you about months ago and who I`ve known for years.

I`m still working very hard on trying to get those Gavilan/SRR films, and maybe one day when I get the full fights of some of the fights I am currently pursuing, maybe then I`ll share some brief snippets of footage with the rest of the world for all to see.

But folks need to understand that when someone spends as much time and money on acquiring rare footage as I do, when the day finally comes that I have something in my possession that I worked so long and hard to acquire my first instinct isn`t to share it with the world but rather to treasure it and keep it for myself.

Why should I share something that I went thru considerable trouble and expense to get a hold of with the whole world? No one here would do the same I can guarantee it, not when you cough up big bucks to get a hold of it, your gonna want to keep that for yourself for some time at the very least before you even contemplate sharing something so expensive and valuable.

And again, somtimes you are given something rare by a fellow collector and if they ask you to keep it to yourself than you have to do so as you are bound by your word once you accept the footage under those conditions. Why betray a friend and possibly compromise a mutually beneficial partnership by betraying the other party`s trust? This makes no sense and none of you guys would do such a thing if put in the same position.


speaking about boxing dvds have you sent mine out yet

[Raging B(_)LL]

speaking about boxing dvds have you sent mine out yet


Yes, they went out earlier this week, look for them to arrive sometime next week around Thursday.

[Jack Dempsey]

Out of curiosity Raging Bull. how much money are we talking for some of these films? ball park figure, in the $100's?

[GPater11093]

Yes, they went out earlier this week, look for them to arrive sometime next week around Thursday.

ok thanks mate