Roy Jones vs. Rocky Marciano

[Flea Man]

An interesting point from the 'Roy Jones' Legacy' thread about Jones beating guys (at LHW) who weighed what the likes of Patterson, Marciano, Walcott and Charles would've weighed, made me think---Would LHW Roy been able to beat HW Marciano?

Of course, Roy would probably box Rocky's head off for long periods of time. However, it would only take a single punch from Rocky to change the momentum of the fight (not saying that because I buy into this 'Glass Jaw' rubbish....I'd say the K.O losses were more down to Roy's body being shot after jumping up and down in weight) but Marciano really did have awesome power.

Rocky was also a deceptively good mover, could he throw Jones off and land a big shot? Marciano struggled with a past-it Charles and Walcott, so would Roy not only bust him up but do the unthinkable and finish him off?

I'm sure most people will say, easy, The Rock shatters RJJ's 'glass chin' but hopefully, by posting this on the Classic Forum, I will get some decent feedback as to how this fight may have panned out.

I won't include a poll, would rather discuss this potential matchup like civilised beings :lol:

Seriously though, any response is welcome :good

[196osh]

I really do think that Jones could win. But Marciano could end it with one punch.

I really have no idea, I think Jones would have a much much better shot over 12 than 15.

I think over 15 I would fancy Marciano to KO Jones.

[Flea Man]

I really do think that Jones could win. But Marciano could end it with one punch.

I really have no idea, I think Jones would have a much much better shot over 12 than 15.

I think over 15 I would fancy Marciano to KO Jones.

Yeah, I'd probably agree. But, would Marciano have made it to 15? With modern day rules he never would've received another round against Charles. Whilst I rate Charles slightly higher than Jones all-time, I don't think that version of Charles would hit as hard as Jones against, say, Griffin 2.

However, between rounds 13-15, if Marciano was as far behind as I think he would be, would Jones be able to stay away as The Rock steams into him and tries to wear him down. Would Jones panic and taste the Suzie Q? Jones had a decent chin in his prime IMO (when he was actually hit :lol:) but Marciano, whilst only a small guy, hit like a mule, there can be no doubting that.

May not be a HW in size by todays standards, but still hit as hard as one!

However, I say Jones wins. I don't think Rocky gets to 15, great chin but Jones would cut him up and smash him up.

Of course, I won't dispute anyone who says the other way, as long as they don't say it's because Roy has a 'glass jaw'. That would be taking away from Rocky's power, good chin or not, no modern SMW/LHW/CW (Hell, even some of the HW's) wouldn't be able to take Marciano's shot flush.

Not even Andrade or Adamek :good

[Bummy Davis]

Roy would never be able to deal with Archie Moore's power no less Marciano....savage KO by Marciano.....But at lightheavy the mongoose would stop Roy's progress also Ezzard too strong for Jones

[WhataRock]

I think Roy would nearly shut him out in a 6 rounder.

[he grant]

See what Glen Johnson did to Roy ? Marciano would destroy him ....

[Flea Man]

See what Glen Johnson did to Roy ? Marciano would destroy him ....

Was that Jones at his peak? No, it wasn't.

Thje question is not whether Jones COULD take their punches, but whether they would actually land those bombs on Roy. If not, I see Jones outboxing Marciano easily.

[red cobra]

This isnt really fair to Roy Jones. Marciano would take a while to catch him, would look awkward as hell, but he would hurt Jones terribly, much worse than Johnson or Tarver were able to do, and stop him brutally in 6.

[Flea Man]

This isnt really fair to Roy Jones. Marciano would take a while to catch him, would look awkward as hell, but he would hurt Jones terribly, much worse than Johnson or Tarver were able to do, and stop him brutally in 6.

Pre-Ruiz, I don't think Tarver and Johnson would've done that to Jones.

[laxpdx]

Roy stays in it for a little bit due to speed, but then Rocky goes to work and brutalizes him mid-rounds.

[Flea Man]

Look at the fights Roy had against swarmers in his PRIME

2 of them stick out right away

1 Bryant Brannon

and

2 Merqui Sosa

These are really the only two fighters (though I may be forgetting someone) to really put some heat on Jones right out of the gate. Usually, fighters were intimidated by the Jones speed and fought a cautious fight from mid range. But these two men pounced right on him right away. They gave him no breathing room.

Jones won both fights by KO (Though the Sosa stoppage was premature, he was clear on his way to a points win or likely KO eventually) however the key thing to remember is that Jones spent I would say 90% of those two fights pinned on the ropes.

Now, if Jones would get trapped on the ropes against Bryant Brannon and Merqui Sosa it is then indisputable that Rocky Marciano would also have him trapped there as relentless and unstoppable as he was. The only difference now is whether or not Jones could KO Marciano which is what was needed of him to earn the respect and ultimately stop the two fighters who crowded him.

I don't think he could.

Ultimately, Jones would get pinned to the ropes and spend most of the fight - however long he could endure it - with his arms up close to his body and head as he sways uncomfortably along the ropes from the mauling, bear-like attack of Rocky Marciano.

This wears hims down for certain and the only obvious question to anyone who is witness will become what round will he be stopped.

Marciano by savage KO

:good

[McGrain]

roy has 0 chance

[Flea Man]

roy has 0 chance

Why?

Not saying that isn't true, but you should probably explain. Rock went life-and-death with post-prime Charles (better than Jones IMO, though past-it) and Walcott, why wouldn't pre-Ruiz LHW Roy beat Marciano?

If you think styles, then fine.

[red cobra]

Pre-Ruiz, I don't think Tarver and Johnson would've done that to Jones.Pre or post Ruiz, Marciano's attack on Jones, however crude it may have been would have crippled Jones, with the cheif assault being on RJ's arms and the blood vessels in his arms. That would have set him up to be pulverized in the manner of Marciano-Charles II.

[natonic]

I don't much more to add that Tabin, Red Cobra and others haven't already said. I just don't think Jones had anything to slow Marciano down and keep him at bay. Marciano would land some shots and it was proven that Jones could be hurt at that weight. The whole pre post Ruiz theory is just speculation which was mostly perpetuated by Jones.

[Flea Man]

I don't much more to add that Tabin, Red Cobra and others haven't already said. I just don't think Jones had anything to slow Marciano down and keep him at bay. Marciano would land some shots and it was proven that Jones could be hurt at that weight. The whole pre post Ruiz theory is just speculation which was mostly perpetuated by Jones.

Fair comments, but I do think the weight gain/drain had something to do with his legs going.

Don't think Tarver would've sparked THAT Roy,. put it that way.

[PowerPuncher]

Marciano got outboxed for long periods by Walcott and Charles. Jones is twice as fast as both and harder to hit. Marciano would have a hard time landing, even if it goes to the ropes, those slow shots are going ot be rolled out the way of

Jones would also land some brutal counters on Marciano who is so comparatively slow RJJ really would tee off with his best shots. If Moore/Walcott floor the Rock then RJJ could also do so.

Rocky's chance is to outmuscle and outwork Roy on the ropes and gradually breaking him down to score either a late KO or close UD victory

[PowerPuncher]

Roy would never be able to deal with Archie Moore's power no less Marciano....savage KO by Marciano.....But at lightheavy the mongoose would stop Roy's progress also Ezzard too strong for Jones

And Archie Moore wouldn't be able to deal with Jones power, he got ko'd by a novice in his prime, ko'd by MWs and beat up by WWs. RJJ is the elite puncher of his time from MW-LHW

Archie also wouldn't land on Jones, far too slow.

Now Charles I would pick over Jones

[abraq]

Jones was brilliant at his best, but I don't think he is winning this one against Rocky.

Middle to late round ko win for Marciano.

[natonic]

Fair comments, but I do think the weight gain/drain had something to do with his legs going.

Don't think Tarver would've sparked THAT Roy,. put it that way.

Likewise, I can see that side of it too. I just think Marciano hit a little harder than Tarver ;-)

[McGrain]

Why?

Not saying that isn't true, but you should probably explain. Rock went life-and-death with post-prime Charles (better than Jones IMO, though past-it) and Walcott, why wouldn't pre-Ruiz LHW Roy beat Marciano?

If you think styles, then fine.

Marciano is indeed a 190ish pound man, so Jones has some experience around this weight. But the following is also true -

- Rocky hits above his weight. He belongs just under guys like Liston and Lewis in terms of one punch hitting power.

- Rocky throws a lot more hard punches than most fighters. That is, most of the punches he throws are very hard.

- He throws a lot of punches

- He has near maxed out stamina and work-rate

- Jones has been KO'd cold by punchers nowhere near as busy or as powerful.



Jones has 0 chance. They could fight 700 times and Roy would only win the fights in which Rocky injured himself.

[Minotauro]

Yeah, I'd probably agree. But, would Marciano have made it to 15? With modern day rules he never would've received another round against Charles. Whilst I rate Charles slightly higher than Jones all-time, I don't think that version of Charles would hit as hard as Jones against, say, Griffin 2.

Charles is a much greater fighter then Roy his resume is 10x better he has bigger wins at middleweight, light heavy and heavy. Plus Charles hit a fair amount harder then Jones even though at the time due to the Baroudi tragedy he held back a little he still hit a fair amount harder. If Rock could take Moore and Walcott's shots Jones power wouldn't be much of a deciding factor. Plus Charles showed far more toughness then Roy and more heart which help him go 15 with Rock.

I think Rocky would stop Jones in the mid rounds Jones has little infighting ability which would be a problem he can't cover up when his back is against the ropes like he used to. Marciano would hit any part of your body hard and eventually wear you down he would be hitting Roy's arms so much they would get very heavy and hard to keep up. Roy would look great in some part but eventually lose via ko.

[teeto]

Come on, Marciano wins.

[Rico Spadafora]

no way could Roy's fragile Glass Jaw take punches from Marciano. No way in hell.

[Bummy Davis]

And Archie Moore wouldn't be able to deal with Jones power, he got ko'd by a novice in his prime, ko'd by MWs and beat up by WWs. RJJ is the elite puncher of his time from MW-LHW

Archie also wouldn't land on Jones, far too slow.

Now Charles I would pick over Jones


watch a prime Moore at 175 he was not slow, he was cat like fast and very heavy handed....Very Heavy Handed

[Hank]

Marciano would walk through him. It's an unfair comparison

[Flea Man]

Charles is a much greater fighter then Roy his resume is 10x better he has bigger wins at middleweight, light heavy and heavy. Plus Charles hit a fair amount harder then Jones even though at the time due to the Baroudi tragedy he held back a little he still hit a fair amount harder. If Rock could take Moore and Walcott's shots Jones power wouldn't be much of a deciding factor. Plus Charles showed far more toughness then Roy and more heart which help him go 15 with Rock.

I think Rocky would stop Jones in the mid rounds Jones has little infighting ability which would be a problem he can't cover up when his back is against the ropes like he used to. Marciano would hit any part of your body hard and eventually wear you down he would be hitting Roy's arms so much they would get very heavy and hard to keep up. Roy would look great in some part but eventually lose via ko.


Well, I currently have Charles at about....9 on my atg list? I think.

Roy was at about 20 last time I checked

[Hatesrats]

Marciano by "First Punch Landed" K.O.
(I'll gurantee you even Jones himself would agree)

[Privatejoker]

Sorry.

Jones.

Ain't.

Winning.

This.






Fight.

The End.

[ChrisPontius]

watch a prime Moore at 175 he was not slow, he was cat like fast and very heavy handed....Very Heavy Handed

He knocked out Bert Whithurst, something Liston couldn't do in two fights.

[Seamus]

no way Jones, as talented as he was, could stand the heat, certainly not over 15 rounds.

[Raging B(_)LL]

Fifteen rounds is a long time to spend in the ring with as relentless and hardhitting an opponent as Marciano. Roy for all his skill doesn`t go a full fifteen rounds against Rocky, he`d get taken out sometime after the halfway mark of the fight, probably sometime in the last third of the fight I reckon. He`d make a complete monkey out of Rocky though most of the way, but eventually the pressure and relentlessness of Rocky`s free swinging aggression would start to see him land more on a tiring Jones and once this happens its only a matter of time until Rock catches up to him and puts him down for the count.

[sam1222]

marciano by KO. although its true, by todays rules if rocky gets cut it could go roy's way. but thats the only way i see jones winning and its a slim chance, marciano was always a better finisher when he knew he had to do it quick.

[Marciano Frazier]

Yeah, I'd probably agree. But, would Marciano have made it to 15? With modern day rules he never would've received another round against Charles. Whilst I rate Charles slightly higher than Jones all-time, I don't think that version of Charles would hit as hard as Jones against, say, Griffin 2.

However, between rounds 13-15, if Marciano was as far behind as I think he would be, would Jones be able to stay away as The Rock steams into him and tries to wear him down. Would Jones panic and taste the Suzie Q? Jones had a decent chin in his prime IMO (when he was actually hit :lol:) but Marciano, whilst only a small guy, hit like a mule, there can be no doubting that.

May not be a HW in size by todays standards, but still hit as hard as one!

However, I say Jones wins. I don't think Rocky gets to 15, great chin but Jones would cut him up and smash him up.

Of course, I won't dispute anyone who says the other way, as long as they don't say it's because Roy has a 'glass jaw'. That would be taking away from Rocky's power, good chin or not, no modern SMW/LHW/CW (Hell, even some of the HW's) wouldn't be able to take Marciano's shot flush.

Not even Andrade or Adamek :good
1. Marciano was in danger of stoppage against Charles because the cartilege of his nose had been ripped in half. This is a freak-of-nature injury, and provides no real evidence of a generalized weakness on Marciano's part; are you going to say, "I predict Jones wins a TKO when a one-in-a-billion uppercut rips the cartilege of Marciano's nose in half"? Moreover, according to some who were present at ringside, it was an elbow which split Marciano's nose, and as such under modern rules he would simply win a lopsided technical decision.

2. Although Jones had good power at lighter weights, I do not believe he hit as hard as, say, Walcott, who was a hard-as-nails 196-pound natural heavyweight with power in either hand. Marciano's durability is simply exceptional- he was never stopped in any fight of any kind, amateur or pro, went 42 professional fights without suffering a knockdown, and was never down for more than a three-count in his career. As noted before, the only instance in any major fight in which Marciano was in any serious danger of a stoppage loss was the result of a one-in-a-million, struck-by-lightning-style fluke and was likely caused by a foul, too. In order to have a chance at knocking out Rocky Marciano, Jones would need to be far more aggressive than he could afford.

3. Jones makes a habit of resting against the ropes for substantial time periods, which would be bordering on suicide against Marciano; see the Louis, Walcott, LaStarza and Moore knockouts.

4. I believe your picture of the fight is badly oversimplified. Marciano was not a threat simply because he could take opponents out with one shot. Certainly he could do that, but he also broke opponents down, mashed them up with hundreds of body shots and arm shots and shoulder shots and even neck and kidney shots and the like, wore at them like waves on a sand castle until he had them wheezing for breath and sagging around the ring. Even opponents who were normally known to have good stamina tired unusually quickly against Marciano. Jones was quick, skilled and fleet of foot, but he couldn't keep up on a perpetual bicycle round after round. Marciano would swarm all over him against the ropes, beat his stomach and sides and batter at his guard, and Jones would start to slow more and more by the round.

[FromWithin]

One thing for sure, if Marciano catches Jones with just one punch, it's lights out.

[ChrisPontius]

Marciano must be one of the most annoying fighters in history to battle. He looks easy to hit, but was deceptively hard to hit, and often met your offense with HARD countershots. On top of that, he always coming forward with a high volume of punches, KO power in both hands, and is almost impossible to knock out.

[Bummy Davis]

1. Marciano was in danger of stoppage against Charles because the cartilege of his nose had been ripped in half. This is a freak-of-nature injury, and provides no real evidence of a generalized weakness on Marciano's part; are you going to say, "I predict Jones wins a TKO when a one-in-a-billion uppercut rips the cartilege of Marciano's nose in half"? Moreover, according to some who were present at ringside, it was an elbow which split Marciano's nose, and as such under modern rules he would simply win a lopsided technical decision.

2. Although Jones had good power at lighter weights, I do not believe he hit as hard as, say, Walcott, who was a hard-as-nails 196-pound natural heavyweight with power in either hand. Marciano's durability is simply exceptional- he was never stopped in any fight of any kind, amateur or pro, went 42 professional fights without suffering a knockdown, and was never down for more than a three-count in his career. As noted before, the only instance in any major fight in which Marciano was in any serious danger of a stoppage loss was the result of a one-in-a-million, struck-by-lightning-style fluke and was likely caused by a foul, too. In order to have a chance at knocking out Rocky Marciano, Jones would need to be far more aggressive than he could afford.

3. Jones makes a habit of resting against the ropes for substantial time periods, which would be bordering on suicide against Marciano; see the Louis, Walcott, LaStarza and Moore knockouts.

4. I believe your picture of the fight is badly oversimplified. Marciano was not a threat simply because he could take opponents out with one shot. Certainly he could do that, but he also broke opponents down, mashed them up with hundreds of body shots and arm shots and shoulder shots and even neck and kidney shots and the like, wore at them like waves on a sand castle until he had them wheezing for breath and sagging around the ring. Even opponents who were normally known to have good stamina tired unusually quickly against Marciano. Jones was quick, skilled and fleet of foot, but he couldn't keep up on a perpetual bicycle round after round. Marciano would swarm all over him against the ropes, beat his stomach and sides and batter at his guard, and Jones would start to slow more and more by the round.


Great points provided very
articulately

Marciano value often overlooked but not by the keen boxing eye

[Flea Man]

1. Marciano was in danger of stoppage against Charles because the cartilege of his nose had been ripped in half. This is a freak-of-nature injury, and provides no real evidence of a generalized weakness on Marciano's part; are you going to say, "I predict Jones wins a TKO when a one-in-a-billion uppercut rips the cartilege of Marciano's nose in half"? Moreover, according to some who were present at ringside, it was an elbow which split Marciano's nose, and as such under modern rules he would simply win a lopsided technical decision.

2. Although Jones had good power at lighter weights, I do not believe he hit as hard as, say, Walcott, who was a hard-as-nails 196-pound natural heavyweight with power in either hand. Marciano's durability is simply exceptional- he was never stopped in any fight of any kind, amateur or pro, went 42 professional fights without suffering a knockdown, and was never down for more than a three-count in his career. As noted before, the only instance in any major fight in which Marciano was in any serious danger of a stoppage loss was the result of a one-in-a-million, struck-by-lightning-style fluke and was likely caused by a foul, too. In order to have a chance at knocking out Rocky Marciano, Jones would need to be far more aggressive than he could afford.

3. Jones makes a habit of resting against the ropes for substantial time periods, which would be bordering on suicide against Marciano; see the Louis, Walcott, LaStarza and Moore knockouts.

4. I believe your picture of the fight is badly oversimplified. Marciano was not a threat simply because he could take opponents out with one shot. Certainly he could do that, but he also broke opponents down, mashed them up with hundreds of body shots and arm shots and shoulder shots and even neck and kidney shots and the like, wore at them like waves on a sand castle until he had them wheezing for breath and sagging around the ring. Even opponents who were normally known to have good stamina tired unusually quickly against Marciano. Jones was quick, skilled and fleet of foot, but he couldn't keep up on a perpetual bicycle round after round. Marciano would swarm all over him against the ropes, beat his stomach and sides and batter at his guard, and Jones would start to slow more and more by the round.

Brilliant post :good

[Maxmomer]

Jones wasn't tough enough to hang with The Rock. He gets stopped.

[RockyJim]

Marciano charged with attempted murder after this fight...BRUTAL KO by The Rock!!!

[mcvey]

1. Marciano was in danger of stoppage against Charles because the cartilege of his nose had been ripped in half. This is a freak-of-nature injury, and provides no real evidence of a generalized weakness on Marciano's part; are you going to say, "I predict Jones wins a TKO when a one-in-a-billion uppercut rips the cartilege of Marciano's nose in half"? Moreover, according to some who were present at ringside, it was an elbow which split Marciano's nose, and as such under modern rules he would simply win a lopsided technical decision.

2. Although Jones had good power at lighter weights, I do not believe he hit as hard as, say, Walcott, who was a hard-as-nails 196-pound natural heavyweight with power in either hand. Marciano's durability is simply exceptional- he was never stopped in any fight of any kind, amateur or pro, went 42 professional fights without suffering a knockdown, and was never down for more than a three-count in his career. As noted before, the only instance in any major fight in which Marciano was in any serious danger of a stoppage loss was the result of a one-in-a-million, struck-by-lightning-style fluke and was likely caused by a foul, too. In order to have a chance at knocking out Rocky Marciano, Jones would need to be far more aggressive than he could afford.

3. Jones makes a habit of resting against the ropes for substantial time periods, which would be bordering on suicide against Marciano; see the Louis, Walcott, LaStarza and Moore knockouts.

4. I believe your picture of the fight is badly oversimplified. Marciano was not a threat simply because he could take opponents out with one shot. Certainly he could do that, but he also broke opponents down, mashed them up with hundreds of body shots and arm shots and shoulder shots and even neck and kidney shots and the like, wore at them like waves on a sand castle until he had them wheezing for breath and sagging around the ring. Even opponents who were normally known to have good stamina tired unusually quickly against Marciano. Jones was quick, skilled and fleet of foot, but he couldn't keep up on a perpetual bicycle round after round. Marciano would swarm all over him against the ropes, beat his stomach and sides and batter at his guard, and Jones would start to slow more and more by the round.

Marciano was prone to cuts, and he was in danger of being stopped by Keene Simmons when his left eyebrow ripped open.Rocky marked up in quite a few fights.
Marciano would put too much pressure on Jones and eventually stop him , in around 8 rds imo.

[downthatbottle]

Marciano is indeed a 190ish pound man, so Jones has some experience around this weight. But the following is also true -

- Rocky hits above his weight. He belongs just under guys like Liston and Lewis in terms of one punch hitting power.

- Rocky throws a lot more hard punches than most fighters. That is, most of the punches he throws are very hard.

- He throws a lot of punches

- He has near maxed out stamina and work-rate

- Jones has been KO'd cold by punchers nowhere near as busy or as powerful.



Jones has 0 chance. They could fight 700 times and Roy would only win the fights in which Rocky injured himself.

I agree with all of this.

[Stonehands89]

And Archie Moore wouldn't be able to deal with Jones power, he got ko'd by a novice in his prime, ko'd by MWs and beat up by WWs. RJJ is the elite puncher of his time from MW-LHW

Archie also wouldn't land on Jones, far too slow.

Now Charles I would pick over Jones
You're knowledge of Moore is obviously limited to a boxrec review and film of Moore in his 40s.

This post is nonsense -and is from someone who accuses others of "knowing little about boxing" and "bias". We just witnessed a man throw a rock at his own head.

[Dempsey1238]

Marciano was prone to cuts, and he was in danger of being stopped by Keene Simmons when his left eyebrow ripped open.Rocky marked up in quite a few fights.
Marciano would put too much pressure on Jones and eventually stop him , in around 8 rds imo.

Seen a pic of the cut from the Simmons fight. It was not a bad cut. Maybe about less than the level of Charles 1 eye cut.

[SuzieQ49]

Archie also wouldn't land on Jones, far too slow.

Now Charles I would pick over Jones


You seem to put charles far above moore in terms of ability. Did you know Moore-Charles II was a Dead Even fight in most eyes, and Moore was ahead on the cards and nearly stopped charles in 3rd fight...not to mention moores other countless wins. I do rate charles higher, but Moore was very much near his level and deserves more credit than given here. I would not underestimate moore here. Was Roy Jones any better than say...Harold Johnson?

[djanders]

Rocky would be too strong for Roy, in my opinion. A Marciano win by knockout in the first round would not surprise me.

[Marciano Frazier]

Seen a pic of the cut from the Simmons fight. It was not a bad cut. Maybe about less than the level of Charles 1 eye cut.
Yes, the photographs I've seen do make me wonder if stories about Marciano having been in danger of a stoppage in the Simmons fight are exaggerated or not. Either way, as a note to Mcvey, I said "major" fights- surely a road battle against an obscure journeyman (at a time when Marciano's left eye likely had still-tender scar tissue after it had been deeply gouged by a headbutt from Johnny Shkor in a recent match) does not qualify. From the time Marciano stepped up to the elite level through his retirement, his entire championship-tier career, the only time he ran any clear risk of being stopped was the second Charles fight, which was an absolute aberration and does not really illustrate any generalized weakness on Marciano's part. You are correct that Marciano did bleed frequently in his major fights, but it never reached the extent at which he was in any serious danger of a stoppage aside from the nose-cartilege-tearing incident, which was a freak of nature and was likely the result of a foul.

[mcvey]

Seen a pic of the cut from the Simmons fight. It was not a bad cut. Maybe about less than the level of Charles 1 eye cut.
Your opinion does not concur with either the referee Sharkey Buannano ,who said he "could have stopped it anytime after the second round",Allie Columbo's,or Charlie Goldman's,and as they were somewhat nearer to the action than you would be viewing it from a photograph I will go with their recollections.

[mcvey]

Yes, the photographs I've seen do make me wonder if stories about Marciano having been in danger of a stoppage in the Simmons fight are exaggerated or not. Either way, as a note to Mcvey, I said "major" fights- surely a road battle against an obscure journeyman (at a time when Marciano's left eye likely had still-tender scar tissue after it had been deeply gouged by a headbutt from Johnny Shkor in a recent match) does not qualify. From the time Marciano stepped up to the elite level through his retirement, his entire championship-tier career, the only time he ran any clear risk of being stopped was the second Charles fight, which was an absolute aberration and does not really illustrate any generalized weakness on Marciano's part. You are correct that Marciano did bleed frequently in his major fights, but it never reached the extent at which he was in any serious danger of a stoppage aside from the nose-cartilege-tearing incident, which was a freak of nature and was likely the result of a foul.

Sorry I did not see the "major fight " bit.The split nose was the result of an elbow I think.Hey I picked Rocky to win this matchup ,put your hands down:lol: