Foreman KOs Moorer. Luck or judgment?

[janitor]

I am interested in your opinions.

Did Foreman just get lucky or did he win by some subtle strategy.

[AnthonyJ74]

I am interested in your opinions.

Did Foreman just get lucky or did he win by some subtle strategy.

Maybe a little bit of both. Foreman had landed that same combination that ultimately kayoed Moorer many times prior to the 10th round, and Moorer held up well.

[anon1]

Foreman had landed that same combination that ultimately kayoed Moorer many times prior to the 10th round

Yup. That sums it up for me. Without a doubt, JUDGMENT! Foreman landed this combo too many times in the fight for it to be a lucky punch. It's just that he put full power in the last one!

The other factor, I wouldn't call luck, but stupidity from Moorer for not respecting Foreman's power. Hadn't he watched the brutal power of Foreman even in the comeback fights? Scary stuff.

[TBooze]

Moorer's face certainly was not lucky.

IMO, Moorer was struggling as a fighter from late on in his 175lbs days. He lacked motivation and confidence. He was clearly highly skilled as he managed to stay undefeated right up to Foreman, but it seemed to me at the time, it would only be a matter of (short) time until someone did him over.

Foreman was losing the fight, but was still very much in it, as Moorer seemed too defensive and lacked the authority that the undefeated Heavyweight Champion of the World should have fighting a 45 year old.

Foreman in a sense did win due to strategy, as his strategy seemed to be to fight at his own pace, even if it meant dropping rounds, because he fancied the job if he could get Moorer anytime in the 36 minutes.

[ChrisPontius]

Well, the stories that Foreman made up afterwards like how he planned to land that punch exactly during that round, are hogwash. But it wasn't a lucky punch either. He simply landed a great 1-2, stunned Moorer and the next 1-2 put him down for the count. He landed those kind of shots in earlier rounds, but not with the same effect.

[apollack]

Cumulative effect. Moorer learned that anyone who doesn't use footwork and cautious defense gets stopped by George. Moorer fought right in his range, and there are only so many heavy Foreman hits the human body can take. Moorer might have been winning the rounds in a points sense, but I say that in almost every round, Foreman landed crisp, clean, solid, effective shots that gradually wore down Moorer's ability to take it. Foreman didn't just land that right. Moorer stood right there and ate some hellacious left hooks and body shots.

[Punisher33]

Their is no such thing as luck, everythings timing and preperation. Foreman knew that Moorer would be more open as the fight went into the later rounds and knew their would come a time where Moorer would walk right into his right hand, and thats exactly what happend.

[Bummy Davis]

It was Fate.......and that one -two-one two-one -two

[AnthonyJ74]

George was lucky in the sense that he wasn't fighting a guy who was never known for having a solid set of whiskers. George's punching power by that point was probably several psi's below what it was in the 70's, but combined with Moorer's shaky chin, it was enough.

[MRBILL]

I am interested in your opinions.

Did Foreman just get lucky or did he win by some subtle strategy.

Foreman won because he maintained focus and never gave up.... Moorer's attention span was erratic... Moorer was painting Foreman like a picture for 9 rds...... Still, Foreman sucked-it-up and came out to KO Moorer in round 10..... The 10th stanza was ALL Foreman..... The win was legit.... Moorer did NOT take a dive like some fools have argued, Foreman nailed Moorer's glass-jaw with a nice two punch combo that consisted of a left and right....... BOING!

MR.BILL:deal

[p.Townend]

It seemed like a well timed punch and Foreman has had a lot of expierence.Not many guys take a record like his into a title fight as challenger.I think he judged the fight well and a little bit of luck is always needed to land the best shot possible.Things just went well for him that night.He won because he was the best fighter on the day.

[mr. magoo]

No, I don't believe it was "luck".

I think it was a combination of Foreman giving it a commendable effort for a 45 year old man who hadn't fought in over a year and Moorer being foolish in taking the bold approach that he did in trying to knock George out. Moorer boxed well, but took Foreman too lightly and showed virtually no respect for his power. At times, he had George staggered and looked as if he was trying to finish him off. Foreman to his credit, took Moorer's absolute best while maintaining his persistance and continued to try and deliver his one-two combos... Eventually, he cought Moorer at the right time and sent the champ to his first defeat in 36 pro fights. It wasn't a fluke where one man scored a flash knockdown and the the other hit his head on the canvas either. No, that punch caused Moorer to get a lot of stitches in mouth. He was messed up.

[The Wanderer]

To me the thing that really screams that Foreman-Moorer was not luck is that fact that Foreman started so slowly. Normally when a guy realizes he only has a puncher's chance and is looking to get lucky in the ring, he comes out and throws everything he has early. The flip side to that, though, is that unless you catch the other guy dry, (which no champion should ever be coming into the ring, although it does sometimes happen) the early part of the fight is also going to be the point when the other guy has the most energy to get away, leacing you with nothing left.

Watch Foreman in the first round. Once when I was rewatching the full fight I counted the punches in the first, and although I don't remember the exact count now, Foreman threw all of maybe two or three right hands in the first. To me, this backs up the idea that Foreman was luring Moorer in, knowing that as the fight went longer and longer Moorer would disrespect Foreman's power, become more stationary, and become less mentally sharp. (And thus less likely to pick up on the things Foreman would be looking to do or Foreman suddenly picking up the pace or throwing more of certain sorts of punches and power blows). As a beautiful bonus for Foreman, Moorer also was made so over confident by this that he didn't really pay attention to Atlas' warnings about moving away from Foreman's right and staying out of reach more.

The end result was the 10th round, where things came together well enough that Foreman could smack Moorer around the ring for 2 minute straight, (and he did, anyone who says it's one shot or combo from Foreman that did it all hasn't watched the fight) before Moorer fell.

Now, I'm not saying to believe everything Foreman says. The truth definitely comes second to a good story for George, and that's a pattern that fans should be familiar with by now. He's exaggerated things a lot, added on lots of details, but I have no doubt that there was a strategy going in to extend Moorer, let the punishment accumulate, and take him out later after Moorer had become complacent and would come to George rather than George having to chase him.

[ringsider]

Moorer was made to order for Foreman. It could not have ended any other way.

[AnthonyJ74]

Foreman won because he maintained focus and never gave up.... Moorer's attention span was erratic... Moorer was painting Foreman like a picture for 9 rds...... Still, Foreman sucked-it-up and came out to KO Moorer in round 10..... The 10th stanza was ALL Foreman..... The win was legit.... Moorer did NOT take a dive like some fools have argued, Foreman nailed Moorer's glass-jaw with a nice two punch combo that consisted of a left and right....... BOING!

MR.BILL:deal

Good post! Yes, Foreman's determination and grit allowed him to win. Many other fighters would have given up. Foreman did come out strong for the 10th round - he came out blasting and really winging big shots at Moorer, especially the left hook.

[AnthonyJ74]

To me the thing that really screams that Foreman-Moorer was not luck is that fact that Foreman started so slowly. Normally when a guy realizes he only has a puncher's chance and is looking to get lucky in the ring, he comes out and throws everything he has early. The flip side to that, though, is that unless you catch the other guy dry, (which no champion should ever be coming into the ring, although it does sometimes happen) the early part of the fight is also going to be the point when the other guy has the most energy to get away, leacing you with nothing left.

Watch Foreman in the first round. Once when I was rewatching the full fight I counted the punches in the first, and although I don't remember the exact count now, Foreman threw all of maybe two or three right hands in the first. To me, this backs up the idea that Foreman was luring Moorer in, knowing that as the fight went longer and longer Moorer would disrespect Foreman's power, become more stationary, and become less mentally sharp. (And thus less likely to pick up on the things Foreman would be looking to do or Foreman suddenly picking up the pace or throwing more of certain sorts of punches and power blows). As a beautiful bonus for Foreman, Moorer also was made so over confident by this that he didn't really pay attention to Atlas' warnings about moving away from Foreman's right and staying out of reach more.

The end result was the 10th round, where things came together well enough that Foreman could smack Moorer around the ring for 2 minute straight, (and he did, anyone who says it's one shot or combo from Foreman that did it all hasn't watched the fight) before Moorer fell.

Now, I'm not saying to believe everything Foreman says. The truth definitely comes second to a good story for George, and that's a pattern that fans should be familiar with by now. He's exaggerated things a lot, added on lots of details, but I have no doubt that there was a strategy going in to extend Moorer, let the punishment accumulate, and take him out later after Moorer had become complacent and would come to George rather than George having to chase him.

Foreman did start pretty slow in that fight. And he did have a few good rounds earlier in the fight; I don't agree with the people who say that Moorer basically swept every round and Foreman was totally out of the fight. The first round was pretty even; the second round was actually pretty good for George - he landed a few good stiff rights. Moorer, of course, was landing the quicker shots and was scoring more, but Foreman was getting in some heavy, thudding shots. Foreman also hit Moorer with a real hard right hand in the beginning of the 8th round; Moorer was definately stung.

[Seamus]

Cumulative effect. Moorer learned that anyone who doesn't use footwork and cautious defense gets stopped by George. Moorer fought right in his range, and there are only so many heavy Foreman hits the human body can take. Moorer might have been winning the rounds in a points sense, but I say that in almost every round, Foreman landed crisp, clean, solid, effective shots that gradually wore down Moorer's ability to take it. Foreman didn't just land that right. Moorer stood right there and ate some hellacious left hooks and body shots.

That about sums it up. All I have to add is the thudding effect of Foreman's jab. It's like getting hit with a sledgehammer and it landed repeatedly on Moorer. If you rewatch the fight you can see the damage Foreman inflicted with the jab and sneaky right in the last three rounds. Also how Foreman hides the right hand by letting his left paw linger in front of his opponent. It's sort of an off-rhythm 1-2.

[Longhhorn71]

Most "home runs" are "lucky"........but the great hitters swing for them anyway.

George doesn't quit and knew he would connect with his big right against the southpaw sometime.....just hoped he wouldn't run out of rounds.

[janitor]

Foremans job was obviously made easier by Moorers willingnes to stand in front of him.

Was this just stupidity on Moorers part or did Foreman deliberatley set out to lull him into a false sense of security?

[mr. magoo]

Foremans job was obviously made easier by Moorers willingnes to stand in front of him.

Was this just stupidity on Moorers part or did Foreman deliberatley set out to lull him into a false sense of security?


I think some forget that Moorer, although a former LH and certainly vulnerable to a true HW hitter, was a puncher. He was no boxer by nature. It was perfectly normal for him to trade in close. In fact, he did more boxing against Foreman than I think I've seen him do against anyone else.

[AnthonyJ74]

Lack of jugement on Moorer's part. If he kept moving and circling, he would have comfortably outpointed George. Moorer gave George the opening that he needed. But a guy with a better chin, Holyfield, McCall, etc, probably wouldn't have been dropped by the punch that put Moorer on his back.

[MrMarvel]

Foreman knew what he was doing. He just patiently kept looking for the one-two that would do it. The punch he knocked Moorer out with was perfectly thrown.

[Bigcat]

Mike boxed a punch perfect fight , then for some stupid reason decided to stand right in front of George.. Geprge meant for his homerun shot to land, so how could it be luck, he meant to hit him on the chops, and did so.. It was the shot he looked for all evening.. Mike was badly hurt...........

[djanders]

I certainly wouldn't call it luck. George Foreman had a plan based on his strengths and weaknesses and Michael Moorer's strengths and weaknesses. He trained and executed his plan. He wasn't looking to outpoint Moorer and then suddenly knocked him out with a lucky punch; he was planning for a knockout win all along, and he did it...in my opinion.

If I make a plan and then carry it out successfully, that isn't luck in my book.

[divac]

I'm with the consensus here....Watching it live, it did'nt look like Foreman was going to get it done.....

....but he pegged away, slowly but surely.....people dont realize that getting hit with a Foreman jab is like getting hit flush by most Heavyweights power punch....
Foreman really put his weight behind that jab of his, and when it landed, it had the effects of getting hit with true power.....

I never bought the idea that the KO was from a lucky punch....if you watched closely....Foreman had closed the distance gap and had been laying hands on Moorer more frequently a couple of rounds before the 10th.

In hindsight however, Foreman although getting thouroughly outboxed throughout, had the right opponent in front of him for an old slow fighter like himself.....Moorer did'nt have the best endurance, and his chin was less than stellar, in fact it was below average for a Heavyweight.
.....those two factors were key in Foreman being able to get to Moorer.

[Rock0052]

Well, the stories that Foreman made up afterwards like how he planned to land that punch exactly during that round, are hogwash. But it wasn't a lucky punch either. He simply landed a great 1-2, stunned Moorer and the next 1-2 put him down for the count. He landed those kind of shots in earlier rounds, but not with the same effect.

Agreed. Foreman gets full credit for landing the KO, but it's not like it was part of a master plan on his behalf to enter the 10th round needing a knockout to win (when would George ever gameplan on outlasting the other guy to KO them late? In his entire career, he never knocked a guy out late besides Moorer.). All Moorer had to do was survive the last 3 rounds to get the win, but he put himself out there on a silver platter- and, like most things on a silver platter, George ate him right up.

[GPater11093]

that combo taht landed was so smart he planned it the whole fight left hook right hand it was just a matter for the right hand to hit clean

[Vantage_West]

well yeah bit of both. judgment: he def chose to spam a 1-2 in the fight but it was luck that he caught him...he seemed to just hope that he would walk into it and he did.
lets remember it was only 1 or 2 punches that hurt or caught moorer really cleanly the whole fight.

he just kept throwing and got what he wanted. that is heart and determination it's not that he outthought moorer he just kept trudging on.


hbo seems to hint that he outsmarted moorer, a nice poetic justice that he was outsmarted in zaire,one of the most famous example of ring tactics . but i dont think it was a dream ending in fact he got a title shot for being a fighter that everybody had heard of. went in as an underdog and just kept throwing like anybody in his position and toosl would do. and got the 1/100 chance that he would of caught moorer on the way in.


not planned but george defintley spammed the 1-2 as much as he could

[Bigcat]

I watched the tape after the event, It was hard to grasp when actually at the fight.. but it was so slick to see how George deliberate as he was put that jab out there as if to temporarily blindspot Mike from the right hand.. Mike didn't see it coming at all.. Very well placed shot... and heavy handed as hell... I know Doc Broadus very well, and he told me that he looked in on Moorer after the fight, and his lip was split deep alongside the gumshield and the teeth, he said he was biting down on a towel and blood was turning the whole towel pink...........

[ChrisPontius]

I think some forget that Moorer, although a former LH and certainly vulnerable to a true HW hitter, was a puncher. He was no boxer by nature. It was perfectly normal for him to trade in close. In fact, he did more boxing against Foreman than I think I've seen him do against anyone else.

I think Moorer may have been looking for a decisive win/knockout, to gain respect. He probably saw how little respect Holyfield got even for a comfortable win over the old man.

[Bigcat]

I watched how Mike turned into a much more acomplished boxer later in his career and along side being a stiff puncher , he knew how to outmanouver a lot of capable guys as he went along.. The win over Botha was absolutely a thing of beauty only matched by Francois' bravery... He boxed wonderfully that night and didn't have to go taking risks..