THE MEANEST of the HEAVYWEIGHT Champions

[Bummy Davis]

Everyone knows Liston was mean and Tyson (talked it and showed it IN THE RING) Dempsey showed it in the ring and was known for killer BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SOFTSPOKEN GUYS....Louis,Marciano,Lewis,Patterson......did they show meanness in the ring when their opponent was hurt...did their softspoken demeaner contradict itself when there opponent showed blood or was hurt...Who was the meanest inside the ring and why

[Hank]

Joe Louis was nice guy except while fight was on, he had what theycalled Killer Instinct. So did Dempsey or anyone else that was champ.

Max Baer was nasty fuck, his fight with Canera showed that. Ali was a scum bag for what he did to Ernie Terrell, plus his calling Frazier ugly and a gorilla repeatedly. He also took unsportsmenship to a disgusting level.
Dempsy like dBaer, I think, sinc ethey boxed long series of exhibits together while Baer was champ (I' d love to see films of tose if they exist)

[ChrisPontius]

Everyone knows Liston was mean and Tyson (talked it and showed it IN THE RING) Dempsey showed it in the ring and was known for killer BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SOFTSPOKEN GUYS....Louis,Marciano,Lewis,Patterson......did they show meanness in the ring when their opponent was hurt...did their softspoken demeaner contradict itself when there opponent showed blood or was hurt...Who was the meanest inside the ring and why


Louis and Marciano wanted to get you out of there no matter what... i wouldn't say they were mean, but rather just cold, emotionless boxing machines. Must be very scary to fight. Tyson and Liston were scarier perhaps, but they could be discouraged and quit mentally when things weren't going their way, something Louis/Marciano never did. Dempsey is a bit of mix of them... he was like Tyson/Liston, but unlike them, he never showed any "quit" in him.


I think Patterson was much of the same mold of Louis; very nice guy outside of the ring (somewhat shy, even), but once inside the ropes, he did what he could to get the KO.


I think Ali during the 60's was pretty mean as well. Borderline sadistic at times. He treated Archie Moore with little respect, and if you look at the rally that makes him stagger Liston in the 3rd round of their fight, HE looks like the bully, not Liston.

In the mid to late 70's, he lost a lot a lot of that and became more of an entertainer.


Lennox Lewis could be very mean with his holding and hitting, even hit Ruddock while he was down.. but he could also fight strategically, i.e. against Tua.

[mcvey]

Everyone knows Liston was mean and Tyson (talked it and showed it IN THE RING) Dempsey showed it in the ring and was known for killer BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SOFTSPOKEN GUYS....Louis,Marciano,Lewis,Patterson......did they show meanness in the ring when their opponent was hurt...did their softspoken demeaner contradict itself when there opponent showed blood or was hurt...Who was the meanest inside the ring and why
Foneda Cox ,Liston's long term sparring partner said Sonny was a great guy till he had a certain amount of drink in him, then his personality changed.Dempsey was murder on his sparring partners and known for his rough practical jokes but got on well with his camp and had many friends among his opponents including Miske ,and Brennan.Louis was rather withdrawn when he first came to the fore ,but with coaching from Roxborough he grew into his title and his personality thawed out and he demonstrated an impish sense of humour, he was pretty easy on his sparring partners like George Nicholson ,but woe betide anyone who took a liberty.Corbett showed a nasty streak punching the huge unskilled Jeffries around when the Boilermaker was his sparring partner.Every Champion has to know how to finish an opponent,its his job ,I hazard a guess that most dont get any vicarious pleasure from it,its business.

[round15]

Sonny Liston and George Foreman were the meanest. Mike Tyson was the nastiest. Joe Frazier was the roughest and the toughest. Ali was the fastest. Larry Holmes was the smartest.

[sugar71]

George Foreman was an angry fustrated young man & admitted that when he was youger he actually wanted to kill someone in the ring to prove a point about his toughness .(Even dispatched 5? men in one day) The man had issues & that break from boxing is what he needed.

[he grant]

Holyfield was pretty brutal inside of that ring ... look at his face when he is stopping Dokes or Tyson ... he looks like he wants to kill them ...

[Seamus]

John L made the mold.

[Bummy Davis]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Walcott was out cold on the ropes but Rocky gave him a little extra

[Bummy Davis]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Jack was mean

[Bummy Davis]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[pugilist_boyd]

Tuesday, August 7
Updated: August 8, 4:13 PM ET
Murray: Dempsey was the meanest
By Jim Murray ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Special to ESPN.com
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
sorry i screwed up my post but this is a good read

[pugilist_boyd]

Tuesday, August 7
Updated: August 8, 4:13 PM ET
Murray: Dempsey was the meanest
By Jim Murray ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Special to ESPN.com
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Editor's note: This column originally appeared in the Los Angeles Times on November 17, 1965.
There are all kinds of ways to get ready for a heavyweight championship fight. You work on what you need.
Joe Louis used to practice going to the farthest neutral corner. Gene Tunney practiced running for his life, Floyd Patterson should practice getting up and Muhammad Whatisname should practice shutting up.
Lots of fighters practice hooks to the head but Gene Fullmer used to practice hooks with the head. Rocky Marciano threw so many punches in so many directions he just had to make sure he didn't hit the referee -- or the ring posts.
ESPN Classic SportsCentury will profile Jack Dempsey ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) on Friday, August 10 at 8 and 11 p.m. ET. But Jack Dempsey was the only champion who practiced the same way the early Christians did -- as if his opponent had a mane and claws and would not only fight him but eat him. Dempsey even fought a punching bag as if it might open fire at any time. Sparring partners limped out of town on every bus. A newspaper man climbed into the ring with him once as a gag, and a colleague had to write the fellow's story for a few days afterwards while he took nourishment through a straw. "Dempsey fought you," a battered spar-mate once confided, "as if the two of you were on a ledge 20 stories up and it was either him or you."
The man who can best testify to the terrible tornadic frenzy of the Dempsey attack is a tall, graceful, New Orleans-born Irishman named Marty Burke.
Martin Burke, now 70 and still blondhaired, is known around the sound stages of Hollywood as the father of 20th Century Fox's television star, Paul Burke ("12 O'Clock High") but he was known around the gyms and barges of New Orleans' "Irish Channel" section as "The Turk," the best left-hook artist who ever came out of bayou country.
Marty's book, if he writes it, is going to be called "1,000 Rounds with Jack Dempsey, or Did You Think I Got This Ear Answering the Telephone?" If you doubt Dempsey's punch, Marty will take your hand and press into what once was a chest bone, but what is now a depression deep enough to hide letters. Dempsey did that with a single hook. Marty forgets what kind of punch it was that used to break his nose regularly.
Marty began to train with Dempsey well before the Dempsey-Willard fight. The two of them toured the tank towns of New Jersey and Pennsylvania where Dempsey's manager, Doc Kearns, posted a ritual $500 fee for anyone who could go the route against the tigerish Dempsey. Doc used to post himself behind the curtain with a bung starter in case any of the tank palookas got lucky, but Marty recalls the few who squared off against Dempsey went out on a stretcher. Marty had to take up the slack and keep the show going.
One night, when his nose looked like a pomegranate and his ear had grown so far it looked like a second head, Marty mildly suggested to Dempsey that he take off a day to heal. "Oh," soother Dempsey, "I'll take it easy with you, Turk -- just a few body taps." The first part of his body Dempsey tapped was his nose -- with one of the hardest rights he ever threw. "Jack just didn't know the meaning of 'take it easy' when he got into the ring. You had to be alert out there or you'd find yourself looking around for your head."
One time, Marty sparred six rounds in one week with Dempsey, and then fought 15 with Gene Tunney for the American light-heavyweight championship. "The six rounds with Dempsey were worse than the whole 15 with Tunney." In fact, Burke says, his tow fights with Tunney -- he lost both -- were easier than any single vaudeville fight with Dempsey with 16-ounce gloves.
Marty's next-hardest fight was with Harry Greb. "He hit me so often, I actually turned around to see who was helping him. With Greb, it was a good thing he couldn't hit hard because he hit often. With Dempsey, it was a good thing he didn't hit often because he hit hard."
At 6 feet 3 inches, Marty had altitude going for him in most fights. Also, he presented a slim target. He weighed as little as 154 when he first began to tour with Dempsey. He fought George Godfrey, on of the great Negro fighters of the '20s, only after the boxing commission told him to put on four more pounds on the afternoon of the fight. Marty spent the rest of the day draining down bootleg ale and Guinness Stout. He not only made the weight, he almost made the drunk tank. This was the first time they ever had to give a fighter a shower BEFORE the fight. Marty showed up at 175 pounds, singing "Mother Machree." Godfrey, a two-bottle man himself, just looked jealous.
Marty even won the fight. At 220 and cold sober, Godfrey was no match for him, and this was at a time when all the ranking heavyweights were ducking behind the color line and keeping Godfrey, known variously as the "Baron of Leiperville" or the "Leopard of Leiperville" and other alliterations, at bay. In time, Godfrey came up to Marty after the bout and allowed, "Turk, you're the first fighter I met in a long time didn't ax me to handcuff myself."
After Dempsey, Burke didn't see any need to ask anybody to handcuff himself. In fact, he was the first to know it when Dempsey began to lose it all. "I told him before the Tunney fight, 'Jack, you know you can't fight anymore. Tunney shouldn't lose a round.'" It turned out, Tunney didn't. Not even the one he was knocked down in for 14 seconds in the second fight.
Marty drifted around the fight game for several more years after that -- or until he got knocked out in one round by Young Stribling. "Five years before, Stribling couldn't have hit me with a handful of birdseed."
Back in New Orleans, Marty opened a French Quarter saloon so tough the shore patrol used to walk it in platoon strength. Some of Marty's last fights were with longshoreman half his age and twice his weight and one night when business was good, Marty sat down after he had stacked a few customers in a neat pile outside the front door, and reached in his mouth and extracted three teeth by hand which had already been loosened by fists.
He spoke in a lisp as he inspected the bloody molars. "I wonder," he questioned, "how Dempsey missed these?"
Thi

[markedwardscott]

Dempsey fought every minute like he wanted to kill his opponent. Got mean as a hobo riding the trains.

[Seamus]

Dempsey fought every minute like he wanted to kill his opponent. Got mean as a hobo riding the trains.

Got schooled by Tunney.

Seriously, he won 1 out of 20 rounds against the great Gene.

[Jack Dempsey]

Tuesday, August 7
Updated: August 8, 4:13 PM ET
Murray: Dempsey was the meanest
By Jim Murray ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Special to ESPN.com
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Editor's note: This column originally appeared in the Los Angeles Times on November 17, 1965.
There are all kinds of ways to get ready for a heavyweight championship fight. You work on what you need.
Joe Louis used to practice going to the farthest neutral corner. Gene Tunney practiced running for his life, Floyd Patterson should practice getting up and Muhammad Whatisname should practice shutting up.
Lots of fighters practice hooks to the head but Gene Fullmer used to practice hooks with the head. Rocky Marciano threw so many punches in so many directions he just had to make sure he didn't hit the referee -- or the ring posts.
ESPN Classic SportsCentury will profile Jack Dempsey ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) on Friday, August 10 at 8 and 11 p.m. ET. But Jack Dempsey was the only champion who practiced the same way the early Christians did -- as if his opponent had a mane and claws and would not only fight him but eat him. Dempsey even fought a punching bag as if it might open fire at any time. Sparring partners limped out of town on every bus. A newspaper man climbed into the ring with him once as a gag, and a colleague had to write the fellow's story for a few days afterwards while he took nourishment through a straw. "Dempsey fought you," a battered spar-mate once confided, "as if the two of you were on a ledge 20 stories up and it was either him or you."
The man who can best testify to the terrible tornadic frenzy of the Dempsey attack is a tall, graceful, New Orleans-born Irishman named Marty Burke.
Martin Burke, now 70 and still blondhaired, is known around the sound stages of Hollywood as the father of 20th Century Fox's television star, Paul Burke ("12 O'Clock High") but he was known around the gyms and barges of New Orleans' "Irish Channel" section as "The Turk," the best left-hook artist who ever came out of bayou country.
Marty's book, if he writes it, is going to be called "1,000 Rounds with Jack Dempsey, or Did You Think I Got This Ear Answering the Telephone?" If you doubt Dempsey's punch, Marty will take your hand and press into what once was a chest bone, but what is now a depression deep enough to hide letters. Dempsey did that with a single hook. Marty forgets what kind of punch it was that used to break his nose regularly.
Marty began to train with Dempsey well before the Dempsey-Willard fight. The two of them toured the tank towns of New Jersey and Pennsylvania where Dempsey's manager, Doc Kearns, posted a ritual $500 fee for anyone who could go the route against the tigerish Dempsey. Doc used to post himself behind the curtain with a bung starter in case any of the tank palookas got lucky, but Marty recalls the few who squared off against Dempsey went out on a stretcher. Marty had to take up the slack and keep the show going.
One night, when his nose looked like a pomegranate and his ear had grown so far it looked like a second head, Marty mildly suggested to Dempsey that he take off a day to heal. "Oh," soother Dempsey, "I'll take it easy with you, Turk -- just a few body taps." The first part of his body Dempsey tapped was his nose -- with one of the hardest rights he ever threw. "Jack just didn't know the meaning of 'take it easy' when he got into the ring. You had to be alert out there or you'd find yourself looking around for your head."
One time, Marty sparred six rounds in one week with Dempsey, and then fought 15 with Gene Tunney for the American light-heavyweight championship. "The six rounds with Dempsey were worse than the whole 15 with Tunney." In fact, Burke says, his tow fights with Tunney -- he lost both -- were easier than any single vaudeville fight with Dempsey with 16-ounce gloves.
Marty's next-hardest fight was with Harry Greb. "He hit me so often, I actually turned around to see who was helping him. With Greb, it was a good thing he couldn't hit hard because he hit often. With Dempsey, it was a good thing he didn't hit often because he hit hard."
At 6 feet 3 inches, Marty had altitude going for him in most fights. Also, he presented a slim target. He weighed as little as 154 when he first began to tour with Dempsey. He fought George Godfrey, on of the great Negro fighters of the '20s, only after the boxing commission told him to put on four more pounds on the afternoon of the fight. Marty spent the rest of the day draining down bootleg ale and Guinness Stout. He not only made the weight, he almost made the drunk tank. This was the first time they ever had to give a fighter a shower BEFORE the fight. Marty showed up at 175 pounds, singing "Mother Machree." Godfrey, a two-bottle man himself, just looked jealous.
Marty even won the fight. At 220 and cold sober, Godfrey was no match for him, and this was at a time when all the ranking heavyweights were ducking behind the color line and keeping Godfrey, known variously as the "Baron of Leiperville" or the "Leopard of Leiperville" and other alliterations, at bay. In time, Godfrey came up to Marty after the bout and allowed, "Turk, you're the first fighter I met in a long time didn't ax me to handcuff myself."
After Dempsey, Burke didn't see any need to ask anybody to handcuff himself. In fact, he was the first to know it when Dempsey began to lose it all. "I told him before the Tunney fight, 'Jack, you know you can't fight anymore. Tunney shouldn't lose a round.'" It turned out, Tunney didn't. Not even the one he was knocked down in for 14 seconds in the second fight.
Marty drifted around the fight game for several more years after that -- or until he got knocked out in one round by Young Stribling. "Five years before, Stribling couldn't have hit me with a handful of birdseed."
Back in New Orleans, Marty opened a French Quarter saloon so tough the shore patrol used to walk it in platoon strength. Some of Marty's last fights were with longshoreman half his age and twice his weight and one night when business was good, Marty sat down after he had stacked a few customers in a neat pile outside the front door, and reached in his mouth and extracted three teeth by hand which had already been loosened by fists.
He spoke in a lisp as he inspected the bloody molars. "I wonder," he questioned, "how Dempsey missed these?"
Thi

Amusing read, great find:good

[Maxmomer]

Got schooled by Tunney.

Seriously, he won 1 out of 20 rounds against the great Gene.

Louis got schooled by Schmeling, Liston got schooled by Ali, Tyson go schooled by Holyfield, Douglas and Lewis. Were they not all still nightmares in the ring?

[DRMULLEN]

Round15..well said..

[Bummy Davis]

Tuesday, August 7
Updated: August 8, 4:13 PM ET
Murray: Dempsey was the meanest
By Jim Murray ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Special to ESPN.com
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Editor's note: This column originally appeared in the Los Angeles Times on November 17, 1965.
There are all kinds of ways to get ready for a heavyweight championship fight. You work on what you need.
Joe Louis used to practice going to the farthest neutral corner. Gene Tunney practiced running for his life, Floyd Patterson should practice getting up and Muhammad Whatisname should practice shutting up.
Lots of fighters practice hooks to the head but Gene Fullmer used to practice hooks with the head. Rocky Marciano threw so many punches in so many directions he just had to make sure he didn't hit the referee -- or the ring posts.
ESPN Classic SportsCentury will profile Jack Dempsey ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) on Friday, August 10 at 8 and 11 p.m. ET. But Jack Dempsey was the only champion who practiced the same way the early Christians did -- as if his opponent had a mane and claws and would not only fight him but eat him. Dempsey even fought a punching bag as if it might open fire at any time. Sparring partners limped out of town on every bus. A newspaper man climbed into the ring with him once as a gag, and a colleague had to write the fellow's story for a few days afterwards while he took nourishment through a straw. "Dempsey fought you," a battered spar-mate once confided, "as if the two of you were on a ledge 20 stories up and it was either him or you."
The man who can best testify to the terrible tornadic frenzy of the Dempsey attack is a tall, graceful, New Orleans-born Irishman named Marty Burke.
Martin Burke, now 70 and still blondhaired, is known around the sound stages of Hollywood as the father of 20th Century Fox's television star, Paul Burke ("12 O'Clock High") but he was known around the gyms and barges of New Orleans' "Irish Channel" section as "The Turk," the best left-hook artist who ever came out of bayou country.
Marty's book, if he writes it, is going to be called "1,000 Rounds with Jack Dempsey, or Did You Think I Got This Ear Answering the Telephone?" If you doubt Dempsey's punch, Marty will take your hand and press into what once was a chest bone, but what is now a depression deep enough to hide letters. Dempsey did that with a single hook. Marty forgets what kind of punch it was that used to break his nose regularly.
Marty began to train with Dempsey well before the Dempsey-Willard fight. The two of them toured the tank towns of New Jersey and Pennsylvania where Dempsey's manager, Doc Kearns, posted a ritual $500 fee for anyone who could go the route against the tigerish Dempsey. Doc used to post himself behind the curtain with a bung starter in case any of the tank palookas got lucky, but Marty recalls the few who squared off against Dempsey went out on a stretcher. Marty had to take up the slack and keep the show going.
One night, when his nose looked like a pomegranate and his ear had grown so far it looked like a second head, Marty mildly suggested to Dempsey that he take off a day to heal. "Oh," soother Dempsey, "I'll take it easy with you, Turk -- just a few body taps." The first part of his body Dempsey tapped was his nose -- with one of the hardest rights he ever threw. "Jack just didn't know the meaning of 'take it easy' when he got into the ring. You had to be alert out there or you'd find yourself looking around for your head."
One time, Marty sparred six rounds in one week with Dempsey, and then fought 15 with Gene Tunney for the American light-heavyweight championship. "The six rounds with Dempsey were worse than the whole 15 with Tunney." In fact, Burke says, his tow fights with Tunney -- he lost both -- were easier than any single vaudeville fight with Dempsey with 16-ounce gloves.
Marty's next-hardest fight was with Harry Greb. "He hit me so often, I actually turned around to see who was helping him. With Greb, it was a good thing he couldn't hit hard because he hit often. With Dempsey, it was a good thing he didn't hit often because he hit hard."
At 6 feet 3 inches, Marty had altitude going for him in most fights. Also, he presented a slim target. He weighed as little as 154 when he first began to tour with Dempsey. He fought George Godfrey, on of the great Negro fighters of the '20s, only after the boxing commission told him to put on four more pounds on the afternoon of the fight. Marty spent the rest of the day draining down bootleg ale and Guinness Stout. He not only made the weight, he almost made the drunk tank. This was the first time they ever had to give a fighter a shower BEFORE the fight. Marty showed up at 175 pounds, singing "Mother Machree." Godfrey, a two-bottle man himself, just looked jealous.
Marty even won the fight. At 220 and cold sober, Godfrey was no match for him, and this was at a time when all the ranking heavyweights were ducking behind the color line and keeping Godfrey, known variously as the "Baron of Leiperville" or the "Leopard of Leiperville" and other alliterations, at bay. In time, Godfrey came up to Marty after the bout and allowed, "Turk, you're the first fighter I met in a long time didn't ax me to handcuff myself."
After Dempsey, Burke didn't see any need to ask anybody to handcuff himself. In fact, he was the first to know it when Dempsey began to lose it all. "I told him before the Tunney fight, 'Jack, you know you can't fight anymore. Tunney shouldn't lose a round.'" It turned out, Tunney didn't. Not even the one he was knocked down in for 14 seconds in the second fight.
Marty drifted around the fight game for several more years after that -- or until he got knocked out in one round by Young Stribling. "Five years before, Stribling couldn't have hit me with a handful of birdseed."
Back in New Orleans, Marty opened a French Quarter saloon so tough the shore patrol used to walk it in platoon strength. Some of Marty's last fights were with longshoreman half his age and twice his weight and one night when business was good, Marty sat down after he had stacked a few customers in a neat pile outside the front door, and reached in his mouth and extracted three teeth by hand which had already been loosened by fists.
He spoke in a lisp as he inspected the bloody molars. "I wonder," he questioned, "how Dempsey missed these?"
Thi


:good:good:goodGOOD READ

[pugilist_boyd]

Dempsey was only 70% of the fighter he once was when he fought tunney,he had lost the hunger or as mic from rocky said he(got civilized)he wasnt as fast his footwork not as good and didnt slip and bob as well as he once did what happend to dempsey happens to fighters sometimes he lost the hunger and became old overnight.i believe if the 1927 tunney met the 1919 dempsey it would have been a painfull night for tunney

[janitor]

Got schooled by Tunney.

Seriously, he won 1 out of 20 rounds against the great Gene.

How is that relevant to this discusion?

It isnt like he lost because he was holding back out of compasion for Tunney.

[Quickhands21]

Dempsey was only 70% of the fighter he once was when he fought tunney,he had lost the hunger or as mic from rocky said he(got civilized)he wasnt as fast his footwork not as good and didnt slip and bob as well as he once did what happend to dempsey happens to fighters sometimes he lost the hunger and became old overnight.i believe if the 1927 tunney met the 1919 dempsey it would have been a painfull night for tunney

If they met in 1919 it would have been still Dempseys best opponent.difference is Gene would have schooled a prime Jack

[janitor]

If they met in 1919 it would have been still Dempseys best opponent.difference is Gene would have schooled a prime Jack

What exactly makes you think that Tunney was Dempseys best oponent?

If you take away his wins over Dempsey his heavyweight record is prety average.

Arguing that he was the best because hye beat Dempsey and the others didnt is somewhat circular logic.

[Bummy Davis]

I dont think Jack had the legs in those Tunney fights that he had earlier in his career. Tunney had great legs (up there with Ali and Walcott) But i do think a earlier more active version of Dempsey would not let Gene survive the long count...Dempsey was not prime for Tunney, Gene was.....Tunney would have been a wrong fight for him at any stage but Jack may have stopped Gene a few years back....and mabey not....How good was Tunney....did he present the same threat as Firpo...He was better and bigger than Carpentier....Brennen, Miske....Sharkey was more there to be hit......Tunney was experienced and skilled and had some pop...was he better than Patterson? where does he stand next to Walcott and Charles

[rekcutnevets]

Originally Posted by Seamus
Got schooled by Tunney.

Seriously, he won 1 out of 20 rounds against the great Gene.
I'm glad you brought this up, it influenced my decision.

Dempsey and Marciano are the only "mean" fighters mentioned here that never quit in the ring. Just look at the way Dempsey unloaded on Tunney when he got the chance to knock him down. Not bad for a fighter to win only 2 out of 20 rounds.

I believe that in being the "meanest", resilience must come into play. You are much scarier if your opponent thinks you're never going to stop.

[Bummy Davis]

I'm glad you brought this up, it influenced my decision.

Dempsey and Marciano are the only "mean" fighters mentioned here that never quit in the ring. Just look at the way Dempsey unloaded on Tunney when he got the chance to knock him down. Not bad for a fighter to win only 2 out of 20 rounds.

I believe that in being the "meanest", resilience must come into play. You are much scarier if your opponent thinks you're never going to stop.

yes a serious mean fighter with no quit that keeps coming and always waiting.....Tyson was mean but gave in when presented with obstinance.....where as obstinance motorvated Marciano to pick it up a notch.....Foreman was mean but like Vince Lombardi says "Fatigue makes a coward of us all" ....Marciano was the exception to that rule and Frazier was another that would not give up

[guilalah]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

This is supposed to be a Harry Wills interview; unfortunately, no citation given.

If it's genuine, Wills discusses another sort of 'meanness', ie mean-spiritedness.

"I've met some hard punchers in my time, but the hardest ever landed on me were like slaps in the face from a woman compared to the bone-crushing wallops of Sam Langford. They seemed to go right through you. When he hit you in the body you'd kind of look around half expecting to see his glove sticking out of your back. When he hit you on the chin- well, when that happened you didn't think at all until they brought you back to life again.

"Sam McVey was a good fighter, but not a good fellow like Joe Jeanette or Langford. He had a mean streak in him and liked to boast. He used a lot of tricks that were unfair. He also had a left hook that was the best I ever saw, speedy and accurate.

"Jack Johnson was the meanest of the lot.

"He was smart in many ways, but in others he showed no sense at all. He got so stuck on himself he had the idea that everyone should fall down and worship him. He was a show off who wanted to attract attention all the time and didn't care much how he did it. As long as he made people talk about him he was happy, and he never stopped to think that he was doing himself more harm than good.

"If you were a young fellow trying to get along, Johnson wouldn't show you anything. He'd rather show you up instead. I know because he tried to humiliate me when I was just a kid coming up. He never cared how he hurt other people's feelings as long as he could make himself look big. Showing off was the cause of all his troubles."

[GPater11093]

bob fitzsimmons looked a right scary mofo. Lol

[Primadonna Kool]

Lennox Lewis had a split personality.

[Mohak]

Dempsey fought every minute like he wanted to kill his opponent. Got mean as a hobo riding the trains.

Constantly running into hungry homo hobo's would do that to you.

[Seamus]

How is that relevant to this discusion?

It isnt like he lost because he was holding back out of compasion for Tunney.

Err... I have no idea the relevance. Methinks that was a rather drunken post. Please to ignore.