Pryce moving up to supper middle!!!!

[robpalmer135]

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must be a joke, he looks out of shape at welterweight! what is it with overweight fighters from the calzaghe camp.

[debaser]

I've always thought his height and frame was too much for 154 so 160 would be a good move. 168, however, is nonsensical.

[brown bomber]

Bollocks.... He failed to prepare correctly. Had the wrong strategy and traded when he was hurt with a known puncher. Enzo C agrees with the weight making problem????!! Bradley started at super feather. People grow and get bigger but he looks in questionable shape at light middle and lacks abdominal definition. I've had enough of the constant shite that comes out of that camp. Seriously why not just give Hall the credit he deserves.

[debaser]

Bollocks.... He failed to prepare correctly. Had the wrong strategy and traded when he was hurt with a known puncher. Enzo C agrees with the weight making problem????!! Bradley started at super feather. People grow and get bigger but he looks in questionable shape at light middle and lacks abdominal definition. I've had enough of the constant shite that comes out of that camp. Seriously why not just give Hall the credit he deserves.

Can't argue with a lot of that mate, the preparations on this occasion were poor and people will need to be held accountable. He fought the wrong kind of fight and got punished.

As for for him being in questionable shape at 154, now that is bollocks. He's nearly six feet tall and has a reasonably large bone structure, 160 would be a far more natural weight for him. He started his pro career at 18 so his body would still have been growing and filling out so I don't we can read too much into that. Lets see what weight Khan is at 27 and I gurantee you it will be nowhere near 135.

Hall was the worthy winner on the night and deserves credit for a good performance but I think people are getting a little carried away. He can punch for sure but offers little else and has dodgy punch resistance. He's a decent domestic level fighter but nothing more.

[brown bomber]

Pryce appears to carry a fair amount of weight at his midriff, personally I'd like to see him get in decent shape and if anything go to welter. Corrales was 6 ft too remember.

[robpalmer135]

Khan will never be at 168 lol. and pryce is not 6ft!

[MIK1000]

some people just naturally carry chub around their mid drift, even if there in great shape and have great stamina. He may be one of those people that will never look trim no matter how hard they train.

[debaser]

Neither will Pryce. He's got a little caried away with suggesting that. 160 would be a good weight for him. Ok, so he's 5'11 and a half, I'll stand corrected if it makes you happy.

[Rebel-INS]

some people just naturally carry chub around their mid drift, even if there in great shape and have great stamina. He may be one of those people that will never look trim no matter how hard they train.

Anyone who sticks to a strict diet and does the amount of work a pro boxer does shouldn't have excess fat.

[Vantage_West]

he will be a natural heavywieght by 2011

the whole calzaghe camp has had pretty bad preperations...and pretty public in that. we all knew enzo had no sparring, we all knew pryce was looking belly



anyways this reminds me of adrian dodson who kept saying he was struggling with weight till he was a near cruiserweight.

[Vantage_West]

Anyone who sticks to a strict diet and does the amount of work a pro boxer does shouldn't have excess fat.
i agree that pryce is flabby in terms of a boxer physique, but i have to say that some cant get ripped. toney never looked great. always looked skinny and fat at the same time. even when he trained and dieted at 160 and 154.
ibragimov is a noteriously hard trainer but looks like barny everytime he enters a ring.

also calzaghes camp has never had the body beuty body shape. calzaghe never wieght drained and looked a bit flabby (great for a fitness fanatic but for a pro boxer he looked below average) same with macca who had some tits, rees........:roll:, cleverly looked similar.


all have good stamina and handspeed but none are ripped...this is a trait of swansea gym.

[Vantage_West]

Can't argue with a lot of that mate, the preparations on this occasion were poor and people will need to be held accountable. He fought the wrong kind of fight and got punished.

As for for him being in questionable shape at 154, now that is bollocks. He's nearly six feet tall and has a reasonably large bone structure, 160 would be a far more natural weight for him. He started his pro career at 18 so his body would still have been growing and filling out so I don't we can read too much into that. Lets see what weight Khan is at 27 and I gurantee you it will be nowhere near 135.

Hall was the worthy winner on the night and deserves credit for a good performance but I think people are getting a little carried away. He can punch for sure but offers little else and has dodgy punch resistance. He's a decent domestic level fighter but nothing more.
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greek statue^


height doesnt mean a hell of a lot in terms of weight....hall looks bigger for the weight than pryce.

Guilermo ones looked flabby at 174...at cruiser he looks rotund at the midsection. just becuase he is tall doesnt mean he should go up in wieght

[billy nelson]

i agree with jeff thomas credit should be given to hall

[Fat Joe]

Palmer's spelling mistakes always make me laugh - Pryce @ supper middle

And he's always talking about title shits

[kurt2006]

Palmer's spelling mistakes always meake me laugh - Pryce @ supper middle

And he's always talking about title shits

Maybe he is dicklexic.

[achillesthegreat]

Pryce and 168 do not go in the same sentence.

[Decebal]

Maybe he is dicklexic.

:lol::verysad:lol::verysad:lol:

[stuey]

i aint sure he takes things too serious.

literally five mins after being ktfo, he had updated his facebook status via mobile.

not the sign of a serious champion imo.

[TommyV]

To what?

Status: Just got knocked the fuck out. Feeling shit.

[Gaz S]

Not to knock Bradley, but he's never had the sturdiest of chins. 168 would be very dangerous waters indeed.

I actually fancied Hall to win the fight solely on the reason of Hall's power and Pryce's chin and nothing else. Didn't even take into account boxing ability on that one. Just seemed a forgone conclusion to me.

[1stcontact]

To what?

Status: Just got knocked the fuck out. Feeling shit.

:rofl:rofl:rofl

[brown bomber]

all have good stamina and handspeed but none are ripped...this is a trait of swansea gym.VW.... Hope you are coolio.

Ok I agree with this post, but that is not nessacarily a good thing.

-The fighters who box out of the gym have good handspeed and stamina but none are ripped.

This statement alone illustrates the shortfalls of that gym. I'm pretty certain that each fighter had good handspeed and stamina (general fitness) before they turned professional. Enzo, Rees, Cleverley and Pryce were certainly fast as amateurs. How many were developed at newbridge? How many actually improved there? Did you (meaning anyone) ever watch any of Calzaghes fights and think....'nice move' or 'intelligent counter'. All I saw was a guy with a good chin and exceptional natural stamina windmilling hundreds of punches. Occasionally going back to his roots and getting his hands up and boxing tidy.

I've never watched anyone from that gym improve their skill set dramatically.

-So they don't improve their fighters skill wise.
-The fighters don't lose a high amount of bodyfat as a result of training (Diet).
-They don't study their opponents pre fight.
-The trainer doesn't proritise the fighters over a court case that he needn't of attended before a world title oppertunity on a PPV show.
-They don't arrange adequate sparring for their fighters.
-They didn't seem aware that Pryce was fighting someone who had 2 stablemates that had beaten him.

So what do they actually do down their because the above just seems to be the tip of the iceberg. I'm not been funny but when you have talented lads like Joe Calzaghe, Bradley Pryce, Gavin Rees and Enzo turning professional its not going to take rocket science to get them to domestic championship level. These lads were International class amateurs. I'm pretty certain if Nobby Nobbs was training them they'd have achieved the same things.

Was it Enzo Calzaghes knowledge and craftmanship that allowed these guys to achieve what they have?

Or was it the fact that every talented fighter in wales decided to base themselves in that gym.

hC62bcskyyo:huh

[dwilson]

Good idea for Pryce to move up in weight I heard Mundine and Bute are after 'opponents'.

[debaser]

VW.... Hope you are coolio.

Ok I agree with this post, but that is not nessacarily a good thing.

-The fighters who box out of the gym have good handspeed and stamina but none are ripped.

This statement alone illustrates the shortfalls of that gym. I'm pretty certain that each fighter had good handspeed and stamina (general fitness) before they turned professional. Enzo, Rees, Cleverley and Pryce were certainly fast as amateurs. How many were developed at newbridge? How many actually improved there? Did you (meaning anyone) ever watch any of Calzaghes fights and think....'nice move' or 'intelligent counter'. All I saw was a guy with a good chin and exceptional natural stamina windmilling hundreds of punches. Occasionally going back to his roots and getting his hands up and boxing tidy.

I've never watched anyone from that gym improve their skill set dramatically.

-So they don't improve their fighters skill wise.
-The fighters don't lose a high amount of bodyfat as a result of training (Diet).
-They don't study their opponents pre fight.
-The trainer doesn't proritise the fighters over a court case that he needn't of attended before a world title oppertunity on a PPV show.
-They don't arrange adequate sparring for their fighters.
-They didn't seem aware that Pryce was fighting someone who had 2 stablemates that had beaten him.

So what do they actually do down their because the above just seems to be the tip of the iceberg. I'm not been funny but when you have talented lads like Joe Calzaghe, Bradley Pryce, Gavin Rees and Enzo turning professional its not going to take rocket science to get them to domestic championship level. These lads were International class amateurs. I'm pretty certain if Nobby Nobbs was training them they'd have achieved the same things.

Was it Enzo Calzaghes knowledge and craftmanship that allowed these guys to achieve what they have?

Or was it the fact that every talented fighter in wales decided to base themselves in that gym.

hC62bcskyyo:huh

Gotta pull you up on some of this Jeff because it's nonsense. I don't know if you've ever been to this gym but if you haven't I think you should go down and take a look to see what they actually do. I think you'll be surprised.

The preparations whilst the court case was ongoing were piss poor but everybody was aware of the situation weeks prior to their fights. Nobody was left high and dry. Enzo Calzaghe was summoned to the High Court as a witness for this case and could have faced criminal proceedings if he didn't attend. The truth is Enzo Mac didn't even train in Newbridge for his last fight. He trained mostly at the Bonymaen gym in Swansea. It wasn't an ideal situation for any of them but they all had ample time to make alternative arrangements or adjustments as they thought appropriate.

You have to look at the workings of the Calzaghe camp as a whole and not just this isolated incident. To say they don't study taped of opponents and don't employ adequate sparring partners is incorrect. They would never have had the success they did if they had taken the approach that you're suggesting. Forget Joe Calzaghe ever existed and the stats still show a very successful stable. They must have been doing something right.

[brown bomber]

Gotta pull you up on some of this Jeff because it's nonsense. I don't know if you've ever been to this gym but if you haven't I think you should go down and take a look to see what they actually do. I think you'll be surprised.

The preparations whilst the court case was ongoing were piss poor but everybody was aware of the situation weeks prior to their fights. Nobody was left high and dry. Enzo Calzaghe was summoned to the High Court as a witness for this case and could have faced criminal proceedings if he didn't attend. The truth is Enzo Mac didn't even train in Newbridge for his last fight. He trained mostly at the Bonymaen gym in Swansea. It wasn't an ideal situation for any of them but they all had ample time to make alternative arrangements or adjustments as they thought appropriate.

You have to look at the workings of the Calzaghe camp as a whole and not just this isolated incident. To say they don't study taped of opponents and don't employ adequate sparring partners is incorrect. They would never have had the success they did if they had taken the approach that you're suggesting. Forget Joe Calzaghe ever existed and the stats still show a very successful stable. They must have been doing something right. Fair play Debaser. I'm trying to be subjective and judge the whole thing on the information that has arisen from the show and what the fighters have said before and afterwards. I'm trying to offer an alternative opinion because so many are heaping praise where I don't feel its due and then blaming the fighters where I don't think they are 100% to blame.

[brown bomber]

You have to look at the workings of the Calzaghe camp as a whole and not just this isolated incident. To say they don't study taped of opponents and don't employ adequate sparring partners is incorrect. They would never have had the success they did if they had taken the approach that you're suggesting. Forget Joe Calzaghe ever existed and the stats still show a very successful stable. They must have been doing something right.What are your links with the camp Debaser?

[debaser]

What are your links with the camp Debaser?

No official links mate, I just know a few of the boys from there. Of course the stable should evauated and criticised if its fighter are not performing, well, just like any other, but some of the things that people write on here is pure fantasy.

It's clear to me that they're a victim of their own success. Whenever a Calzaghe fighter loses people jump on the band wagon with the same old drivel. It seems that they're not allowed to make mistakes like any other camp would. Nobody ever said that they were infallable. Whenever an Ingle, Roach, Richardson, or whoever, fighter loses, no one bats an eyelid. Yet if it's a Calzaghe fighter then a huge inquest is held and accusations of them not being adequately qualified to train fighters fly.

Enzo Calzaghe is partly to blame for Pryce and Macca's poor performances on Saturday night and I know he's absolutely gutted about what happened. However, lets see how they recover and perform in their comeback fights before making crazy accusations about the gym being run by amateurs.

Two and a half years ago the Calzaghe stable had three world champions on its books so lets give credit where it's due. Whether people think they were worthy champions or not is not relevant, the stats speak for themselves. I'm struggling to think of any other gym in the world that had 3 world champs on its books in recent times.

Yes they made some terrible mistakes in the build up to last weekend's fights but this doesn't undo all the things that they have achieved over the years. Give them a chance to redeem themselves and I guarantee they won't dissppoint.

[brown bomber]

Two and a half years ago the Calzaghe stable had three world champions on its books so lets give credit where it's due. Whether people think they were worthy champions or not is not relevant, the stats speak for themselves. I'm struggling to think of any other gym in the world that had 3 world champs on its books in recent times.

The rest of your post is spot on especially the part about being a victim of its own success. I remember a few years back the Ingle camp went through a similer run of misfortune and of course we all know the quality brendon and his team bring to the table.

Above is the part that irks me.

The stats DO speak for themselves but ONLY if their properly studied. I struggle to think of a gym that promotes as many sports network fighters as Calzaghes.

The benefits of being a sports network fighter??

A seemingly endless run of 80-20 match ups.

Unwarranted title shots.

Did Enzo or Rees deserve their shots or their subsequent status as world champions? Most would argue they were just fortunate to be with the right promotional outfit at the right time as demonstrated by their capitulation against genuine world class fighters in defences.

A theory is that enzo is a mediocre trainer, who was exceptionally lucky to have an exceptionally talented son whom allowed Enzo to gain the reputation of been a great trainer on the back of his 80-20 title defences. Welsh fighters with talent, knowing of the gyms repute would flock there and be signed with Sports Network taking advantage of Sports Networks occasionally awful match making policies and building big 20-30 fight unbeaten runs.

The interview I posted above makes Enzo sound like a blagger to me... like he is trying to bluff his way through an interview. Compare that to the insiteful things that Emanual Steward might say in a similar situation? Its not my opinion that Enzo is a poor trainer but there is a heck of a lot of evidance to support the fact that he is an unexceptional one.

Look at someone like Jamie Moore. Area level amateur. Improves sufficiently under the guidance of Oliver Harrison to bcome the best fighter in the whole of Europe.

Johnny Nelson 1-7 as an amateur, 0-3 as a pro and Ingle turns him into a world champion. These are the products of a 'great' trainer.

Taking Rees to 27-0 in mismtches and winning a paper title from a lazy 'champion' isn't.

[debaser]

The rest of your post is spot on especially the part about being a victim of its own success. I remember a few years back the Ingle camp went through a similer run of misfortune and of course we all know the quality brendon and his team bring to the table.

Above is the part that irks me.

The stats DO speak for themselves but ONLY if their properly studied. I struggle to think of a gym that promotes as many sports network fighters as Calzaghes.

The benefits of being a sports network fighter??

A seemingly endless run of 80-20 match ups.

Unwarranted title shots.

Did Enzo or Rees deserve their shots or their subsequent status as world champions? Most would argue they were just fortunate to be with the right promotional outfit at the right time as demonstrated by their capitulation against genuine world class fighters in defences.

A theory is that enzo is a mediocre trainer, who was exceptionally lucky to have an exceptionally talented son whom allowed Enzo to gain the reputation of been a great trainer on the back of his 80-20 title defences. Welsh fighters with talent, knowing of the gyms repute would flock there and be signed with Sports Network taking advantage of Sports Networks occasionally awful match making policies and building big 20-30 fight unbeaten runs.

The interview I posted above makes Enzo sound like a blagger to me... like he is trying to bluff his way through an interview. Compare that to the insiteful things that Emanual Steward might say in a similar situation? Its not my opinion that Enzo is a poor trainer but there is a heck of a lot of evidance to support the fact that he is an unexceptional one.

Look at someone like Jamie Moore. Area level amateur. Improves sufficiently under the guidance of Oliver Harrison to bcome the best fighter in the whole of Europe.

Johnny Nelson 1-7 as an amateur, 0-3 as a pro and Ingle turns him into a world champion. These are the products of a 'great' trainer.

Taking Rees to 27-0 in mismtches and winning a paper title from a lazy 'champion' isn't.

I'l need to respond this properly when I get back from work later. I'm no fan of Sports Network either but this is a different issue. There is a reason why they managed to gain control of so many Calzaghe fighters. I think it's fair to say that there is a general feeling of regret in the camp now that this was the case.

I think some of your points are a bit harsh.

Enzo was the mandatory contender for the WBO belt and had won the interim version, having beaten the former WBC champ in a final eliminator. He was then naturally promoted to full title holder when Nelson retired.

Rees was very fortunate to get his shot but took it well. Not his issue if the other guy failed to prepare properly. He won the fight convincingly at a weight which his body frame is clearly far too small for. He overcame massive disadvantages in height and reach and triumphed emphatically despite being the massive underdog on the night.

Nice story bout Nelson by the way, I never knew that. 0-3 to a world champion is impressiv stuff. I've never liked the style the Ingles teach their fighters but, again, you can't argue with the stats. They've been hugely successful.

[Gaz S]

Just a side note - Enzo didn't actually mold Joe Calzaghe from scratch, Joe was originally trained in the amateurs by a chap called Paul Williams. Everyone seems to believe Enzo trained Joe from beginning to end, which isn't true.

I also agree with Jeff that if it wasn't for Joe's natural talents, then Enzo C. wouldn't get nearly half the acclaim that he does. The fighter made the trainer is my personal opinion on this one.

[brown bomber]

Just a side note - Enzo didn't actually mold Joe Calzaghe from scratch, Joe was originally trained in the amateurs by a chap called Paul Williams. Everyone seems to believe Enzo trained Joe from beginning to end, which isn't true.

I also agree with Jeff that if it wasn't for Joe's natural talents, then Enzo C. wouldn't get nearly half the acclaim that he does. The fighter made the trainer is my personal opinion on this one.The plot thickens.... What do you think of the points i've made Gaz? Debaser rightly says i've been a bit harsh but that was to provoke a response from the Calzaghe lovers... so far no-one biteing.... Surely not everyone agrees i'm right.

[debaser]

[quote=Gaz S;3647102]Just a side note - Enzo didn't actually mold Joe Calzaghe from scratch, Joe was originally trained in the amateurs by a chap called Paul Williams. Everyone seems to believe Enzo trained Joe from beginning to end, which isn't true.

This is true but it's also common knowledge. Joe talks about in depth in his autobiography.

[brown bomber]

What does Paul Williams do now? What age did he train Calzaghe to? Because i've just made a pretty shocking observation.

[Gaz S]

The plot thickens.... What do you think of the points i've made Gaz? Debaser rightly says i've been a bit harsh but that was to provoke a response from the Calzaghe lovers... so far no-one biteing.... Surely not everyone agrees i'm right.


I pretty much agree with what you've said for the most part.

I think Enzo C is vastly overrated as a boxing trainer. He's more of a drill sergant who gets his boys fit and just screams at them. I haven't really seen any great evidence of a great boxing brain or tactician there. Just get fit, get in there and punch.

Joe Calzaghe's success (and whilst I've already made my opinions clear on Joe, I do have some respect for him and do rate him - just not as high as most) flatters Enzo immensely.
Whilst guys like Rees and Pryce are talented, to be fair (and this is not a criticism) I don't really see them being any better than domestic class. The fact that Rees became a world champion is a credit to all involved, but to me it's more to do with Sports Network, right time, right place, right strings pulled, etc.
(And if I wanted to be really cynical about it, there was talk of Khan challenging Rees at one point for the WBA title. Is it just a coincidence that ****** had bagged the title for a fighter he promotes that was seen as a weak champion and easily beatable :huh )

Enzo Maccarinelli and Gary Lockett I really like a lot as people, both of them are nice guys and very classy. However...
I actually thought Lockett was lucky to get the nod over Ryan Rhodes, and the hammering he took from Pavlik, and the subsequent hiding Pavlik got from Hopkins, shows the huge gulf in class between Lockett's level and world class. Enzo Calzaghe did absolutely nothing to enhance Lockett's abilities or make any improvements.
With Gary's natural gifts, he should have had a small chance against Pavlik, or at least faired a bit better than he did, but Enzo C failed to maximize on anything. No real strategy, no plan B, etc, and as a result Lockett walked into the ring as a punch bag that night.

Maccarinelli hasn't really achieved much either under Calzaghe, all it's done really for him is gain him more attention as part of the Team Calzaghe bandwagon and Sports Network hype machine.
The Braithewaite win was impressive, but by now Enzo should be mixing at top European level and perhaps emerging as a contender (never really considered him a "world" champion, just a belt holder). Instead he's knocked over a couple of Bobby Gunns and Mathew Ellis', and had Calzaghe blowing smoke up his backside about how he's "going to be a monster" and how great he is rather than actually working on his weaknesses and flaws and developing his skills as a boxer. He's paid the price for that now twice in one year...

Joe Calzaghe would have had pretty much the same career with or without Enzo in the corner. I know a lot of the romantics out there would probably disagree, but Joe would have had the same desire to win, the same talent and the same abilities.
Enzo was pretty much just a motivator and cheerleader for Joe.