If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

[Sonny's jab]

..... will he move up in your all-time rankings ?

I'd consider such a win almost on a par with an old Holmes beating Mercer.
It would certainly mark Holyfield's return as a top-flight contender, and will be among the best wins ever scored by 40+ fighter.

Of course, the odds are against Holyfield winning but stranger things have happened in boxing.

[bigG]

...am i the only one who EXPECTS holyfield to win....what exactly does ibragimov bring to the table that is so unbeatable for this incarnation of the real deal.....

[Sonny's jab]

...am i the only one who EXPECTS holyfield to win....what exactly does ibragimov bring to the table that is so unbeatable for this incarnation of the real deal.....

I expect Holyfield to win too, but I think the odds should be against him. Look at his age (almost 45) and look at the last 5 or 6 years of his career. He's got to be underdog against a "live" young unbeaten top flight contender.
I just take a leap of faith with Holyfield, he's cannot be judged ordinarily.

Ibragimov looks like a decent fighter to me. Nothing special but quite a bit better than anyone Holyfield has beat recently.

[rekcutnevets]

Ibragimov is in most peoples top 10 rankings at the moment. He is in some's top 5.

It will mean that Holyfield is yet again a top contender. Credit to him, or shame on the division. It's your call.

I see the difference in the way Holyfield talks now. I don't like to see him get hit anymore. The fact is, he is winning right now. If he can prove he is a top ten contender, he is proving he is still competative. No matter how much we cringe with every large shot that hits him, if he keeps winning his argument to remain active is valid. It is his body, his mind. No matter how foolish it is, or how little some will feel he proves.

It is a governing body's responsibility to protect fighters to a certain extent, and make sure competative match ups are provided for the fans.

Again, he is winning against B or C level competition. That makes his deserving of fights against A level fighters resume wise. These commisions and santioning bodies are forced to face the fact that he is actually proving himself in the ring.

Holyfield is already in my top ten all time, I think around 9. A win over Ibragimov won't make him rise.

[bigG]

looking at holyfield vs foreman for 'comebak' achievements.....foreman was much busier, but fought the rust out of his sysyem....some of his opponents and fights were glorified sparing with one outcome...tiiimber...IF holy beats ibragimov, i actually think it will be a greater acheivment than foreman beating moorer.....moorer had one thing going for him...power...and foreman had a great chin..he was never gonna be in danger of being ko'd by moorer.....moorer had a terrible chin, and foreman had great power, so, him ko'ing moorer, whilst a great acheivment, was hardly improbable or even unlikely....holyfield has looked distinctly average over the past few years....beating the oponents he has beaten in his latest comeback shouldnt give him direct access to the title..he is getting his shot because he is evander holyfield...and many of you guys rate sultan...he is an active top ten h/w who is a belt holder....if holy turns back the hands of time once or twice more, i think we can say his comeback performances performances rank greater than big georges...foreman will always be remebered more fondly cos of his projected image...big smiling george.....but beating sultan will be harder for holyfield than foreman ko'ing a weak chinned ex light heavy who doesnt really feature on anyones list of great heavyweights.....yet i expect holyfield to have too much, even at this late stage, for sultan......and cement his place as an atg...

[ChrisPontius]

..... will he move up in your all-time rankings ?

I'd consider such a win almost on a par with an old Holmes beating Mercer.
It would certainly mark Holyfield's return as a top-flight contender, and will be among the best wins ever scored by 40+ fighter.

Of course, the odds are against Holyfield winning but stranger things have happened in boxing.

I think it would at least be on par with Holmes-Mercer. If Moorer wasn't linear, i would say it'd be on par with Foreman-Moorer as well. I think S. Ibragimov (in shape) is better than Mercer or Moorer. Although maybe it's too early to make that judgement.

But it would add another good name on his resume and in my opinion would be in his top5 of career best wins, below Tyson, Bowe and Ruiz. I change my top10 list all the time, but i don't think i'd be able to omit him from the top10 if he won.


By the way, i expect him to lose in the same manner as old Foreman/Holmes lost to him; he'll win some rounds and have his moments, but most of the time would be outclassed by the younger champion.


If Holyfield wins and the oppurtunity arises, would you want him to fight Wlad? Would you blame Wlad for taking that fight?

[rekcutnevets]

bigG, I rank Ibragimov because I don't recognize him as the true champion of the division. I don't care that he is a belt holer. Recoginition of every belt holder as champion is what is wrong with boxing. I don't give someone's bogus title any credit, and I continue to rank them if they are not the real champ.

There is a good website, [Only registered and activated users can see links] that has the right idea. They don't update nearly often enough, though. They are on the right track.

[bigG]

i hear ya..in this day and age holding a belt can mean squat.....but many seem to rate sultan as one of the best h/ws out there today, so i'l stand by my analysis, an ageing holyfield beating sultan will, for me, rank over an ageing foreman beating moorer....tbh, holy has a lot more miles on the clock than big george did as well, this must be borne in mind too....

[Ted Stickles]

Evander is one of my favorites he has always shown the desire and dtermination that makes a great fighter ,i hope he wins and doesnt get hurt but it will be no walk in the park for him......

[Sonny's jab]

I think it would at least be on par with Holmes-Mercer. If Moorer wasn't linear, i would say it'd be on par with Foreman-Moorer as well. I think S. Ibragimov (in shape) is better than Mercer or Moorer. Although maybe it's too early to make that judgement.

But it would add another good name on his resume and in my opinion would be in his top5 of career best wins, below Tyson, Bowe and Ruiz. I change my top10 list all the time, but i don't think i'd be able to omit him from the top10 if he won.


By the way, i expect him to lose in the same manner as old Foreman/Holmes lost to him; he'll win some rounds and have his moments, but most of the time would be outclassed by the younger champion.


You rate Ibragimov quite highly then. Were you impressed by him against Briggs ?

If Holyfield wins and the oppurtunity arises, would you want him to fight Wlad? Would you blame Wlad for taking that fight?

If Holyfield wins of course he should fight Wlad Klitschko. I dont see what the fuss is about.

[FlatNose]

Sultan isn't much, so beating him isn't much of an accomplishment even for a 45 year old .The only reason these two are even players is the dismal state of the heavyweight division.Holyfield should win, but I wish David Haye would move up to heavy and beat all of these pretenders.

[jhar26]

If he beats Ibragimov it proves that he can still beat a top 10 fighter which definitely is a major achievement at his age, but not quite enough to move him up on ATG rankings. If he should beat Wlad though (which is almost as unlikely to happen as John McEnroe coming back to beat Roger Federer in the Wimbledon final) he will definitely move up on most people's lists, and probably by more than one spot at that.

[bigG]

realistically, in this day and age where we have one champ who is generally perceived to be head and shoulders above the rest...IF holyfield beats sultan and maybe grabs another belt, then IF he does beat klitschko, where does he move to in the atg heavyweight list.......

[Marciano Frazier]

Accomplishment-wise, this would be a very solid shot-in-the-arm for Holyfield's legacy. He's been drifting around the fringes of my top 10 for the last few years, and this win would probably secure him the spot.

[ChrisPontius]

You rate Ibragimov quite highly then. Were you impressed by him against Briggs ?


Yes i was. I wasn't particularly flattered by his performance against Austin, but i think that was because he was 10-15 pounds overweight.

Against Briggs he fought the perfect fight, gave Briggs no chance, boxed safe and landed hard, accurate straight lefts (he's a southpaw) and had Briggs hurt a few times. He won 11 out of 12 rounds. He's not special in the sense that he has great speed or great power, but he is fairly skilled, very motivated. He also took a few hard flush right hands from Briggs (the ones that dropped Liakhovic, who survived Brewsters bombs) without showing signs of being hurt and staying by his fightplan instead of slugging it out or getting gunshy: he has a fighters heart.


If Holyfield wins of course he should fight Wlad Klitschko. I dont see what the fuss is about.
The fuss is about Holyfield getting killed in the ring :lol:

Seriously though, i think Wlad is already a very hard stylistic matchup for Holyfield: fights tall, behind a very fast and hard jab and moves well. The tools to offset that (speed and workrate) are faded too much now because of his age.

[Smokin'Joe100]

and cement his place as an atg...

i was going along with you, until i read this. A 4-time heavyweight champ? A total heavyweight warrior? Someone who has not ducked a single opponent in his entire professional career? And he still needs to CEMENT HIS PLACE AS ATG? My friend, Holyfields place among the ATG's is already secure.

[bigG]

your preachin to the converted bro...im a huge holyfield fan..(you may have noticed....).......

[TBooze]

i was going along with you, until i read this. A 4-time heavyweight champ? A total heavyweight warrior? Someone who has not ducked a single opponent in his entire professional career? And he still needs to CEMENT HIS PLACE AS ATG? My friend, Holyfields place among the ATG's is already secure.

Holyfield fall slightly short of greatness. As a rule the Heavyweights suck quality wise amongst the classic eight, and I can only find places for three full-time Heavies on my Greatest list (Ali, Louis and Foreman).

Holyfield has never retired from the ring, so although he compares age wise with Foreman, his achievements are not in the same league. A victory over Ibragimov would not compare to an unbeaten Moorer either.

It annoys me as well about this four time champion rubbish. Anyone and I mean anyone can claim alphabet crap four times if they wish...

It also taints Holyfield, because one of his excellent achievements is being one of only five fighters to regain THE Heavyweight Championship of the World.

[Mendoza]

..... will he move up in your all-time rankings ?

I'd consider such a win almost on a par with an old Holmes beating Mercer. It would certainly mark Holyfield's return as a top-flight contender, and will be among the best wins ever scored by 40+ fighter.

Of course, the odds are against Holyfield winning but stranger things have happened in boxing.

I don’t think Holyfield will win the fight. I beleive Ibragimov will easily out box, and possibly TKO Holyfield if he tires. Look for Ibragimov to fight Holyfield the same way he schooled Briggs. Irbagimov is a swarming attack orrented fighter by nature, but vs Briggs he proved he could use his footwork, speed, and skills to out box a bigger / slower opponent. It was an impressive albeit somewhat boring performance for Ibragimov. The key thing to focus on here is most swarmers lack this type of versatility.

Older fighters can’t deal with speedy / skilled opponents with more stamina than they have. They need to land a bomb in these types of fights. Holfyield best chance in my opinion is to catch Ibragimov with his hook.

If Holyfield manages to win this fight, it will be his best win in the past few years and add a bit to his legacy. How much remains to be seen. We really don’t know how good or bad Ibragimov really is at the top level. If Holyfield defeats Ibragimov and Ibragimov bounces back to win on of the world title belts, then the win will mean a bit more.

[bigG]

Holyfield fall slightly short of greatness. As a rule the Heavyweights suck quality wise amongst the classic eight, and I can only find places for three full-time Heavies on my Greatest list (Ali, Louis and Foreman).

Holyfield has never retired from the ring, so although he compares age wise with Foreman, his achievements are not in the same league. A victory over Ibragimov would not compare to an unbeaten Moorer either.

It annoys me as well about this four time champion rubbish. Anyone and I mean anyone can claim alphabet crap four times if they wish...

It also taints Holyfield, because one of his excellent achievements is being one of only five fighters to regain THE Heavyweight Championship of the World.

sure foreman beat an unbeaten michael moorer....he also beat a blown up light heavyweight known for two things...big power/no chin.....made for george(george was getting beat out of sight in the figh, but anytime he connected it was always gona be over...).......i maintain that holyfield beating sultan, if it happens, will be a greater acheivment...

[TBooze]

sure foreman beat an unbeaten michael moorer....he also beat a blown up light heavyweight known for two things...big power/no chin.....made for george(george was getting beat out of sight in the figh, but anytime he connected it was always gona be over...).......i maintain that holyfield beating sultan, if it happens, will be a greater acheivment...

Moorer like Ibragimov was no great shakes, but Moorer did have THE Heavyweight Championship of the World and Foreman had to taken a beating to get his dues; that makes it even more special IMO.

If Holyfield wins, what does he gain other than beating a fighter with an '0'? Everyone on the general board will turn like a pack of animals on Ibragimov.... Holyfield would not of won, rather Ibragimov lost.

[bigG]

going on the little iv seen and heard of sultan, the pack on here will be hypocrites in the extreme if they turn on him...most have been extolling his virtues as an up and comer......and is such a great amount of kudos to be put on 'linear' status...wasnt shannon briggs linear champ at one point.......as in the man that beat the man that beat the man etc.....i can see holyfield pulling this one out..im not viewing the old codger thru rose tinted gogles, but im not with the sultan fans....what has he done and who has he beat to make him such a huge challenge for a man of evanders talent...sure its a time eroded talent, but i wouldnt be to sure that he doesnt upset this, and maybe one more applecart before permanantly retiring...and before y'allargue that how can i belittle sultan and say that vander beating him would rank higher than foreman beating moorer, its just that i aint sure of sultan...but im damn sure i dont rate moorer as a heavyweight...

[Sonny's jab]

The fuss is about Holyfield getting killed in the ring :lol:

Seriously though, i think Wlad is already a very hard stylistic matchup for Holyfield: fights tall, behind a very fast and hard jab and moves well. The tools to offset that (speed and workrate) are faded too much now because of his age.

Of course, Wlad should be highly favoured over old Holyfield, and expected to win by stoppage probably inside the first half of the fight.

But Wlad's fought far less capable opponents than Holyfield and no one made such a fuss about the safety of such men. I mean pure cannon fodder. Guys like Castillo and Moli.

Holyfield's already got be viewed on about the same level as an Austin or Brewster at least, or a DeVaryl Williamson.
If he beats Ibragimov he's definitely as worthy as anyone of taking on Wlad.
People talk as if you have to be King Kong to dare to take on "the mighty Wlad Klitschko".
As Lennox Lewis once said, hype can do a lot for a fighter.

[ChrisPontius]

The difference is that Holyfield is 45 and has been in tons of wars over the last twenty (!!) years, whereas Austin, Castillo et al were relatively fresh although they were being overmatched.

The fact that Holyfield never retired (for a long period) whereas Foreman took 8 years away from the punishment would make it even more impressive if Holyfield wins.


Anyway, i didn't imply that you have to King Kong to take on the Sugar Prince Wladdy, although he is on an impressive winning streak.
My point was that Holyfield is old, has been in wars and already has a slurring speech, and the only thing he'd end up with after fighting Wlad now is additional brain damage. I'd like him to retire.
That said, if he does win a title belt, i'd like the fight to be made just as much as i'd like any other unification fight.

[jhar26]

Moorer like Ibragimov was no great shakes, but Moorer did have THE Heavyweight Championship of the World and Foreman had to taken a beating to get his dues; that makes it even more special IMO.
Foreman taking the title from Moorer was the greater achievement because Moorer had taken the title from Holyfield who was the real champ. If Ibragimov had taken the title from Wlad first and Holyfield would then beat Ibragimov it would be a comparable achievement, but as it is....

[ripcity]

If Holyfield beats Ibragimov I will be surprised and impressed, but beating Ibragimov isn't going to move anyone up on my all time list. Even if they are a 44 year old e heaveyweight champion.