YOU the Manager....Your route to the title.

[brown bomber]

Ok so lots of people get pissed with the way certain fighters are managed. So say you had a fighter who had the potential to make it to world class. How would you progress his career??

For example

I would go the traditional route.

If he were a lightweight I would use bouts 1-6 to get him some rounds against decent journeyman. The first two would be four rounders and thn the next two would be 6-2's and finally a couple of 6-3's (Billy Smith, Danny Thorpe, etc). His seventh fight wud be a british masters or a area title shot. He would make a couple of defences plus continue his education in 8 rounders against former champs like Graham Earl and Craig Doherty. At 12-0 i'd try and match him with a failed prospect... someone like Nadeem Siddique. Couple more eight rounders then at 14-0 going in i'd test him against Martin Gethin in a ten rounder. A English title shot and a defence against Henry Castle before a international 12 rounder against a former Euro Champ or contender. That would take my guy to 17-0... he'd prob be world rated by this point.

17-0 i'd match him with a live domestic contender, someone like McAllister or Limond. Before a Commonwealth title fight (not against Khan). As Commonwealth champion i'd then try and make a match with the British champion. That would take my guy to 19-0. At 19-0 and with a proven track record at domestic level i'd be very confident in putting him with a proven former world champ on the slide- a kevin Kelly, Derrick Gainer or Carlos Hernandez. So 20-0 i'd prob look for another world class veteran or go for the Euro title.

As Euro champion i'd try and negotiate a few good defences before after 3-4 movng him into a world title fight. He'd be sufficiently experianced in competitive 12 rounders. At 25-0 he's also have the type of record that would make him an appealing voluntary defence. Also if he won the title 25 fights of this nature would take approx 5-6 years.... He's still got time to make defences and come again if he gets beat.... What you think? What would be your career route?

[robpalmer135]

i would have 35 fights agaisnt guys with looseing records from 3 weight below and then go straight for the WBU title

[TehRileh]

Very nice, i like the way Paul Appleby has been Managed so far, after a delay in his fight he kept busy with a fight the other week, not just sitting around.

[widdy]

Ok so lots of people get pissed with the way certain fighters are managed. So say you had a fighter who had the potential to make it to world class. How would you progress his career??

For example

I would go the traditional route.

If he were a lightweight I would use bouts 1-6 to get him some rounds against decent journeyman. The first two would be four rounders and thn the next two would be 6-2's and finally a couple of 6-3's (Billy Smith, Danny Thorpe, etc). His seventh fight wud be a british masters or a area title shot. He would make a couple of defences plus continue his education in 8 rounders against former champs like Graham Earl and Craig Doherty. At 12-0 i'd try and match him with a failed prospect... someone like Nadeem Siddique. Couple more eight rounders then at 14-0 going in i'd test him against Martin Gethin in a ten rounder. A English title shot and a defence against Henry Castle before a international 12 rounder against a former Euro Champ or contender. That would take my guy to 17-0... he'd prob be world rated by this point.

17-0 i'd match him with a live domestic contender, someone like McAllister or Limond. Before a Commonwealth title fight (not against Khan). As Commonwealth champion i'd then try and make a match with the British champion. That would take my guy to 19-0. At 19-0 and with a proven track record at domestic level i'd be very confident in putting him with a proven former world champ on the slide- a kevin Kelly, Derrick Gainer or Carlos Hernandez. So 20-0 i'd prob look for another world class veteran or go for the Euro title.

As Euro champion i'd try and negotiate a few good defences before after 3-4 movng him into a world title fight. He'd be sufficiently experianced in competitive 12 rounders. At 25-0 he's also have the type of record that would make him an appealing voluntary defence. Also if he won the title 25 fights of this nature would take approx 5-6 years.... He's still got time to make defences and come again if he gets beat.... What you think? What would be your career route?

prob the same way mate,anyweight.
i remember blue and ****** turning pro,and the area title was a big thing in the local small hall shows,great fights.
i remember ****** getting the central area belt,i thought wow,if i wernt shit,i woud like one of them:nut

[brown bomber]

Central area title...... I wish so much i'd have won that.

[GazOC]

I'd adopt the Pete Rademacher approach...;)

[brown bomber]

Glad everyones taking my thread seriously ha ha

[widdy]

its a big thing for the up and coming boxer,or should be,and it puts you in the frame for the british title i think,****** fought ensley bingham i think it was,(on the eubank benn 2)for the british title eliminator,L on points

[brown bomber]

Bingham was one of my faves..... What a banger...

[TBooze]

Assuming he is quite young:

The first fight would just be a given, an easy first round KO.

In the next 12 months, I would have him fight at least ten times, starting with your 20 and 100 journeymen who can take him a few rounds. Developing him further by fighting fringe British contenders over eight rounders, finishing the year with hopefully an Area Title.

Year two would begin with a genuine European class fighter over at least 10 rounds, to assess his progress. If he wins, great, British, Commonwealth and European Titles await in year two.

If he loses, then a further six months and six fights against fringe British contenders, defending his Area title, before stepping up and challenging for a British, Commonwealth or European title.

Year three See's further development against fringe contenders from all parts of the world, culminating in a fight against a genuine world class contender that if he wins, should lead to title shot in his fourth year.

So IMO, if the fighter has the class, you can build him up in 36 months and 22/23 fights to a World class level, even with a defeat, providing it is a learning fight, it still only puts you back six months.

[GPater11093]

I'd adopt the Pete Rademacher approach...;)

lol first fight and he was a decent fighter

i would probably start my boy off with 6x3 against decent journeyman for his first 5 stepping up the level slightly. At this point i would get him an area title and try getting him mandatory for he british. Once he gets the british make afew defences to get a lonsdale belt to keep. These defences would be against the graham earls, kevin mcintyres etc... (old champions on the slide.

After that i would target a commonwealth title then fight afew decent british fighters your Mcallisters, Limonds, Pryces etc... (decent domestics) then go for the European and win that.

After the european i would take my boy to America to get decent sparrring and make a name for himself get him afew 12 rounders against ex champions, contenders to boost his rankings in the WBC.

Get the title shot for the WBC after winning the title make afew defences against decent operaters to test the boy. After afew defences target the ring belt and hopefully win that

Side Note: from the debut to the WBC title shot the boy would be fighting regualrly once every month/ 2 month with non title fights like 8 rounders in between defences of belts. After the title we would aim to get around 5 or 6 fights a year.

[GazOC]

I'm interested in what peoples priorties would be for their boxer. Genuine, respected titles or financial reward and security? I'm not saying the two things need be mutually exclusive but I'd assume going down the WBO route and making a couple of relatively easy "world title" defences pays better than the area/ Brit/ Euro way of doing things? At least then your man can retire with a bit of money if it turns out that the real top guys in the division are too much for him.

[GPater11093]

I'm interested in what peoples priorties would be for their boxer. Genuine, respected titles or financial reward and security? I'm not saying the two things need be mutually exclusive but I'd assume going down the WBO route and making a couple of relatively easy "world title" defences pays better than the area/ Brit/ Euro way of doing things? At least then your man can retire with a bit of money if it turns out that the real top guys in the division are too much for him.


i would say you build your way up fighting often and challenging yourself fighting for european, british titles to get a good ranking in the WBC (IMO the most prestigious belt) after that you target to be the best in the division either unifying titles or going after the ring magazine title. After you are the best at the weight thats when you make your money

[TBooze]

I'm interested in what peoples priorties would be for their boxer. Genuine, respected titles or financial reward and security? I'm not saying the two things need be mutually exclusive but I'd assume going down the WBO route and making a couple of relatively easy "world title" defences pays better than the area/ Brit/ Euro way of doing things? At least then your man can retire with a bit of money if it turns out that the real top guys in the division are too much for him.


It is professional boxing, so the priority has to be money. As a manager it is your job to get the best pay day possible with the least possible risk to your fighter.

Sure if you got a Calzaghe on your hands, you do not need to worry so much about the risk, but as Waren found out, the better you are as fighter, the more influence you have in the game, and the less need you have for a manager.....

[brown bomber]

Assuming he is quite young:

The first fight would just be a given, an easy first round KO.

In the next 12 months, I would have him fight at least ten times, starting with your 20 and 100 journeymen who can take him a few rounds. Developing him further by fighting fringe British contenders over eight rounders, finishing the year with hopefully an Area Title.

Year two would begin with a genuine European class fighter over at least 10 rounds, to assess his progress. If he wins, great, British, Commonwealth and European Titles await in year two.

If he loses, then a further six months and six fights against fringe British contenders, defending his Area title, before stepping up and challenging for a British, Commonwealth or European title.

Year three See's further development against fringe contenders from all parts of the world, culminating in a fight against a genuine world class contender that if he wins, should lead to title shot in his fourth year.

So IMO, if the fighter has the class, you can build him up in 36 months and 22/23 fights to a World class level, even with a defeat, providing it is a learning fight, it still only puts you back six months.Quality.... Thats what I meant.

[brown bomber]

It is professional boxing, so the priority has to be money. As a manager it is your job to get the best pay day possible with the least possible risk to your fighter.

Sure if you got a Calzaghe on your hands, you do not need to worry so much about the risk, but as Waren found out, the better you are as fighter, the more influence you have in the game, and the less need you have for a manager.....Thats very true.... as a lover of the sport i'd like to promote the old fashioned route.... The Euro title is very lucrative though.... i'd love an accurate breakdown of purses. Its not something really discuss.... migt try and get somefigures off micheal.

[GazOC]

I def. agree with starting with 6 rounders rather than 4s. Pacing issues aside theres more chance my top prospect can let his quality show over 6 rounds and get the decision. With 4s he could drop a point for foul and easily end up with a draw or even a loss on his record needlessly.

[brown bomber]

Which world class fighter would you consider most fitting to your blue print? I like the way Brodie was developed but I think he spent to long at European level.

[brown bomber]

Doing this you can see why Sports Network just play the number game.

[GazOC]

Doing this you can see why Sports Network just play the number game.

I agree, ****** never progresses careers like traditional boxing fans would approve of but he does let a fair number of borderline world class boxers earn very, very well.

I much preferred the days of area/ Brit/ Euro but as a manager I'm not sure thats the route I'd take if the other options were open to me.

[TBooze]

Which world class fighter would you consider most fitting to your blue print? I like the way Brodie was developed but I think he spent to long at European level.
For me three in the modern era stand out.

Lloyd Honeyghan had great career development to a World championship. Them two big upsets (Rosi and Curry), both seem in hindsight to be helped by Lloyd having learnt his trade properly, before stepping in the ring.

Barry McGuigan just shows you, an early upset does a proper prospect no harm. Indeed the only slow down came after the tragic Young Ali fight.

Naseem Hamed may of not ultimately lived up to the hype, but his career development up to the Johnson win, was brilliant IMO.

As for some who perhaps should of done a little better, I thought both Bomber Graham and Hatton probably should of stepped up to fight the cream of their division a couple of years earlier.

I know it is simple to say that and that both had problems finding them type of fights, despite both probably wanting them, but it did hurt Graham and certainly at least slowed down Hatton's rise.

[brown bomber]

Yeah good calls there mate... Lewis? He was moved along well.... I liked the way they were bringing along spencer Oliver too

[TBooze]

Yeah good calls there mate... Lewis? He was moved along well.... I liked the way they were bringing along spencer Oliver too

Lewis is an excellent example, especially as Lewis had to learn his trade in front of a live TV audience. He may of looked a bit amateurish at times, and perhaps some puzzled why the Businessman managed to take him six, or Jaws, eight.

But with hindsight, Lewis was beating an undefeated top 5 World ranked Heavyweight (Gary Mason) within 22 months of turning pro, he was that good.

To compare: Audley Harrison, who won the same Olympic title 12 years later, was fighting Matt Ellis two years into his career.

[TFFP]

Debut - Fight a complete bum that your kid knocks out in the first round. Purely a confidence builder, getting used to life without helmets and pillows, as well as the anxiety of a pro debut out of the way.

Fights 2 through to 5 - Fight more cans with losing records. Try to get one that is durable. Try to get one that is southpaw.

Fights 6 through to 10 - Gradually increase the quality of opponent from bums up to decent journeyman with ranging styles, and finallly a gatekeeper for the division. Sink or swim time.

11 through to 15 - Now we should have some sort of ranking. Fight contenders in the British rankings, working our way up to mandatory.

Somewhere around 16 - Fight for British title.

17 - 19 - Win Lonsdale strap outright by fulfilling mandatories.

20 - If there are any fights with fellow undefeated prospects that are begging to be made, try our best to do this if a reasonable offer comes in.

21+ - Look for European title shot.

22-24 - Defend it a few times against whoever the EBU chucks up.

25 - Look for world title shot. The easiest possible route to begin with, likely the WBO! But it could be any in truth.

26 - Get our feet under the table....make a defence and help secure the fighters future.

27+ - Now we are firmly at world level...look for unification.

30+ - If we've now unified the division, lets move up.

Depending on whether the talent of my prospect is special or normal I might choose to take it slower or faster, but all things being equal something like this is the ideal progression to me.

[Primadonna Kool]

12 fights against domestic fighters, and will spend most of my money on PR. Getting my fighter on TV show's, i will pay setanta for having me and my fighter on their show once aweek..and we will have are special segment. Called "The Hit list"


Where we put 10 domestic fighters in a pole, these domestic fighters could be....My fighters next fight, and we get viewers to vote for are next opponent every few weeks or months, how often we fight. The reason why we will be on the show everyweek is because, we will phone these 10 fighters up..."Live on air" and basically ask them questions. Sometime's we might visit them in their gym......


In this game, it's all about building..building..building. After the 12 domestic fights are over, we will fight for the British title.


After we have won that, we will just go all gun's blazing. European and commonwealth title's, smash them.


And then in a tactical decision, i will start working with Golden Boy promotions. And i will say..


"Listen i have a talented fighter here, good looking, mixed raced and he is from Liverpool. We will fight for you ...for nothing "just pay for are transport and food/trainning", 4 fights...for nothing.

You see we don't want to be paid, this will be a tactical decision. Just so we can break into the big time, and after we smash 4 opponents on big fight cards. The money and contracts will be fucking rolling in, my fighter will already be one of the biggest sport athlete's in the UK, by the time he leaves for the state's.


Because of the way i promoted him...

It's about building Stars...

[1stcontact]

Would anyone bring their fighter along the same way as David Haye was??

[achillesthegreat]

Traditional route. 10 fights in one year and that should move them 4x3 to 12x3 along with an area title and country title.

In their second year they are ready to fight for British, Commonwealth and Lonsdale.

Third year, they are ready for Europe and a world eliminator. From there it is world level fights non stop even if they lose fights.

[dwilson]

I would force him to keep his day job as a bin man and let the rest sort itself out.

[DarkDestroyer83]

First 12 fights put him in with decent journeymen from the same weightclass in 4 rounder and eventually build it up to 8 or even 10 rounds.

Fights 13-16 against decent fighters who have fought at national title level.

Fights 17-20 National title fight and a few defences.

Fights 21-30 against international opponents, Euro level, Southern/Central Americans, North Americans, former title challengers, possibly former champs.

Fights 31-35 against top 10 opponents and eventually a title shot.

But what the hell do I know:-(

[surreal deal]

I still think the British,Euro and Commonwealth route is overrated simply because Americans arent expected to do it.Its inconsistent.Nothing wrong with it,just think its seen as too sacred.
The top Americans fight and bump each other off in World title fights,why should we do it for less?
You realize if Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns were Brits,their first fight would have been for a British title,with the loser starting again at domestic level.Absurd but true.

[UndisputedUK]

Fight complete bums who cannot punch from the weights below and old faded named fighters and then the WBO title. :smoke
Get someone to hype you up as the second coming, best ever.
But the independent rankings tell the full story,(your not in them) that your crap!

[Beeston Brawler]

Pretty much the same way as Jeff had it, but with the following changes:

1. Straight into 6x3 immediately.
2. Leave the Commonwealth alone.
3. A bit of undercard action in Germany or the US chucked in somewhere.

[icemax]

It has to be the traditional British, European, World route. Any British pro fighter who doesn't want to own a Lonsdale belt outright must be a souless fuckwit.

[Beeston Brawler]

Ouch.....

Ricky Hatton
Joe Calzaghe
Naseem Hamed
Frank Bruno
David Haye

In fact it probably rules out every ex-World title holder bar Lewis and Witter...... whilst Froch and Moore have also won one.