View Full Version : Can You Think of Another Fighter Who Has Been Managed as well As Cotto?
I cant in recent history. He has been matched perfectly. He has been given exaclty what he was ready for and challenged at the right moments. If he can get past Mosely, he will have a shot at PBF at 28 years old and without taking much if any punishment in the ring.
For all the bad management in boxing that we see (enter Vargas here), Cotto´s has been great. I have to think that if Fernando was managed like this his legacy may have been different.
Piffer
08-22-2007, 01:43 PM
His talent level might have a little something to do with that as well. And don't bank on him beating Mosley either.
His talent level might have a little something to do with that as well. And don't bank on him beating Mosley either.
Of course it does, but you can manage talent to the sky or drive it into the ground. This is not a thread intended to take credit away from Cotto, just to say that his career has been complemented by a good plan.
Oh and Cotto will get past Mosely late.
BigReg
08-22-2007, 01:44 PM
I cant in recent history. He has been matched perfectly. He has been given exaclty what he was ready for and challenged at the right moments. If he can get past Mosely, he will have a shot at PBF at 28 years old and without taking much if any punishment in the ring.
For all the bad management in boxing that we see (enter Vargas here), Cotto´s has been great. I have to think that if Fernando was managed like this his legacy may have been different.
This is the problem with boxing. Too many promoters are trying to perfectly match their fighters who don't have much of a chance of beating them instead of putting them in with the best fighters availible. Say what you want about Vargas, but his career is where it is right now because he just wasn't good enough. Unfortunately, because of how the sport is set up, promoters are motivated to pad their fighters record for years before putting them in a big money fight, which may or may not be against a legitimate threat.
Caper
08-22-2007, 01:45 PM
Plenty of fighters have been managed well it all depends on how they rise and complete each hurdle thrown at them. I can think of a few but one that comes to mind is surely ODLH, he fought good names that where either past their prime or fighters that had previously fought Tito and got smashed small enough for DLH to consume, similar to a bird regurgitating already half digested foods for their offspring.
rendog67
08-22-2007, 01:45 PM
you need talent look at valuev he was managed very well
Piffer
08-22-2007, 01:46 PM
Of course it does, but you can manage talent to the sky or drive it into the ground. This is not a thread intended to take credit away from Cotto, just to say that his career has been complemented by a good plan.
Oh and Cotto will get past Mosely late.
Would you say that Floyd Mayweather fighting for his first major world title in his 18th pro fight was good management?
This is the problem with boxing. Too many promoters are trying to perfectly match their fighters who don't have much of a chance of beating them instead of putting them in with the best fighters availible. Say what you want about Vargas, but his career is where it is right now because he just wasn't good enough. Unfortunately, because of how the sport is set up, promoters are motivated to pad their fighters record for years before putting them in a big money fight, which may or may not be against a legitimate threat.
But thats just the thing, Cotta HAS been in entertaining fights, even fights where he has been in trouble. He hasnt just fought bums.
And now he is going to give us great fights, against top fighters, while he himself is is in his absolute prime.
Would you rather watch a 28 year old Vargas get pummeled around the ring with no reflexes because his shit management threw him in with men when he was a boy ( or the supposed ¨best available fights¨)?
Caper
08-22-2007, 01:49 PM
This is the problem with boxing. Too many promoters are trying to perfectly match their fighters who don't have much of a chance of beating them instead of putting them in with the best fighters availible. Say what you want about Vargas, but his career is where it is right now because he just wasn't good enough. Unfortunately, because of how the sport is set up, promoters are motivated to pad their fighters record for years before putting them in a big money fight, which may or may not be against a legitimate threat.
Vargas has fought some of the best and for that my hat goes off to him. One thing he had was balls of steel, I'm sure his preformance vs DLH was effected by being shell shocked by Tito. Though DLH would have probably out classed him anyway. Nuff respect to Vargas he does have a win against Winky who thrashed Tito and would have probably made DLH look a bit silly as well. Vargas always had a better preformance vs Ike when compared to DLH's last second dramatics.
Would you say that Floyd Mayweather fighting for his first major world title in his 18th pro fight was good management?
Whats your point?
Every fighter is different, Floyd was a prodigy who possesed great speed and athleticism.
Cotto is a preasure fighter who depends on power and body work, and has to grow into these attributes. He would not have been ready as soon as Floyd.
Different fighters and yes Floyd has obvioulsy been managed fine for the fighter he is.
Piffer
08-22-2007, 01:56 PM
Whats your point?
Every fighter is different, Floyd was a prodigy who depended who possesed great speed and athleticism.
Cotto is a preasure fighter who depends on power and body work, and has to grow into these attributes. He would not have been ready as soon as Floyd.
Different fighters and yes Floyd has obvioulsy been managed fine for the fighter he is.
Yes they are different fighters but I thought we were talking about management here. My point is that management is a gamble, and if that gamble is continually won, hindsight shall treat them kindly. It's the balance between knowing what your fighter can do, and what you think he may be able to do.
Caper
08-22-2007, 02:00 PM
Yes they are different fighters but I thought we were talking about management here. My point is that management is a gamble, and if that gamble is continually won, hindsight shall treat them kindly. It's the balance between knowing what your fighter can do, and what you think he may be able to do.
Well you never officially know until fight night, its pretty much rolling the dice once you hit mid level fighters. I'm sure Joel Julio's management thought their fight with Quintana was a sure win. Then you have guy's who almost got done in like Berto vs Cosme.
Yes they are different fighters but I thought we were talking about management here. My point is that management is a gamble, and if that gamble is continually won, hindsight shall treat them kindly. It's the balance between knowing what your fighter can do, and what you think he may be able to do.
Ok I understand.
I just think Cottos team has take the right gambles at the right time (true hindsight tells all).
Caper
08-22-2007, 02:02 PM
I have to disagree with the assessment of Vargas' career. You don't beat a Quartey on just luck alone. The beating that he received from Tito nipped his career. He was a year or two too early in fighting Tito. You have to remember he was only 23 or so. His body was still maturing and he needed a tad bit more experience before taking on Tito. He had some skills, but his work ethic was questionable. I never liked the statement he made, which was something to the effect of, "I have a hard time getting motivated for non-title fights or certain opponents." That led me to believe that he was a lazy fighter. I'm not saying he would have been an all-time great, but he would have lasted a lot longer by waiting a little more before the Tito fight.
That kind of mentality can get you a custom made pine coffin messing with the wrong type of fighter that just had a child and needs money for the milk.
Well you never officially know until fight night, its pretty much rolling the dice once you hit mid level fighters. I'm sure Joel Julio's management thought their fight with Quintana was a sure win. Then you have guy's who almost got done in like Berto vs Cosme.
Yep thats a good example. I thought Julio would beat Quintana easily too. Turns out he doesnt know how to adapt, I dont think Julio is the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Caper
08-22-2007, 02:04 PM
Yep thats a good example. I thought Julio would beat Quintana easily too. Turns out he doesnt know how to adapt, I dont think Julio is the sharpest knife in the drawer.
No he's not.:yep
BigReg
08-22-2007, 02:04 PM
But thats just the thing, Cotta HAS been in entertaining fights, even fights where he has been in trouble. He hasnt just fought bums.
And now he is going to give us great fights, against top fighters, while he himself is is in his absolute prime.
Would you rather watch a 28 year old Vargas get pummeled around the ring with no reflexes because his shit management threw him in with men when he was a boy ( or the supposed ¨best available fights¨)?
Cotto has been fighting setups against overmatched opponents. His best win was against a guy coming off a one year layoff and two loses. Cotto is supposed to be the 2nd best WW out there, he's on many top ten p4p lists and he's going on 27. There should be no more setups for this guy. I'm sorry but I have not been impressed by Cotto's resume so far. However, fighting Mosely is a good fight for him and is certainly acceptable.
Caper
08-22-2007, 02:11 PM
Cotto has been fighting setups against overmatched opponents. His best win was against a guy coming off a one year layoff and two loses. Cotto is supposed to be the 2nd best WW out there, he's on many top ten p4p lists and he's going on 27. There should be no more setups for this guy. I'm sorry but I have not been impressed by Cotto's resume so far. However, fighting Mosely is a good fight for him and is certainly acceptable.
Why Im glad Cotto has finally started to to live up to your high standards Reg; That in itself is quite an accomplishment ;)
Rickypr18
08-22-2007, 02:12 PM
Plenty of fighters have been managed well it all depends on how they rise and complete each hurdle thrown at them. I can think of a few but one that comes to mind is surely ODLH, he fought good names that where either past their prime or fighters that had previously fought Tito and got smashed small enough for DLH to consume, similar to a bird regurgitating already half digested foods for their offspring.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl, but true
No he's not.:yep
Late in the fight against Quintana I looked into his face (seen the fight twice actually) and I didnt see much going on there. Not a ¨damm Im about to lose my first fight and a big payday¨or a ¨what can I do to knock this guy out late in the fight¨or anything like that. Just a silly, Sammy Sosa-ish smile like everything was ok.
kg0208
08-22-2007, 02:16 PM
I agree with you. Although I am not dissing Cotto, I think too many people are giving him too much credit for his win over Judah (low to medium risk fight with a high-reward because he beat a "name fighter"). Some of his wins over opponents were due to the size difference. You have to know that Cotto was drying himself out big time to make 140, and it nearly cost him in the Corley and Torres fights. If he beats Mosley, Cintron, Margarito, Williams, or even a Clottey, then I think it would be fair to start mentioning him along with Tito. Until then, he is a solid fighter who is now ready to step-up the comp. No more easy fights.
And I agree with both of you. I give this argument every time I see him on a P4P list.
Caper
08-22-2007, 02:16 PM
Late in the fight against Quintana I looked into his face (seen the fight twice actually) and I didnt see much going on there. Not a ¨damm Im about to lose my first fight and a big payday¨or a ¨what can I do to knock this guy out late in the fight¨or anything like that. Just a silly, Sammy Sosa-ish smile like everything was ok.
:yep :rofl :rofl :rofl
I wonder if they show Sammy Sosa highlights in Columbia?
Boxing IQ test should become mandatory before becoming pro.
kg0208
08-22-2007, 02:19 PM
JMM was managed well by Berenstain until he refused the rematch with PAC...How does a fighter supposedly as good as they come..avoid, MAB, Erik, JJ, NAZ etc etc and still be considered the best of the bunch...now thats great spin
I dunno....one could make a case that they avoided him. How do you know who avoided who?
kg0208
08-22-2007, 02:26 PM
:huh MAB fought Naz, Erik, JJ and avoided JMM:huh ..Same for Erik and JJ..lets be honest..for someone who had a trilogy like Erik/Mab and to question that they avoided anyone is absurd...
I can see them avoiding JMM because he brings no dinero to the table...but JMM could have made himself more marketable by fighting high profile fighters more even a Kelley or that army kid mckinney
But you're just assuming these things. Morales doesn't have the same style as JMM. It is conceivable that he was viewed as high risk low reward. Why did Barrera beat Hamed but not try and unify with a guy holding 2 of the belts in that weight class? You cannot assume that JMM avoided them cuz the fight didn't come off.
Biggame
08-22-2007, 02:42 PM
Erik avoid anyone?, the same erik who went southpaw on PAC in the 12th round?
If I'm dealing with probabilities, I'd bet the house that MAB and Erik and JJ didnt avoid anyone...This was proven after the Pacquiao fight...JMM avoided a rematch and went to Indonesia for 30k, who does that?
Now he fights MAB because hey win or lose I'll get mine...its alot better than 30k. They avoided Guzman when Barrios backed down...its a pattern...
PAC ? he took the Lebwadha fight in 2 weeks and beat him for the Title
You're assuming here!!
Most inside of Boxing believe it was JMM who was avoided, not the other way around. He is considered to have been the best of the bunch because he was the most well rounded, and had a better skillset than all of them. He could outbox you or,take you out! He was the least known, but the most dangerous, and he was prime then!!
BTW...Nacho turned down the rematch out of spite, not JMM!!
BigReg
08-22-2007, 02:43 PM
Why Im glad Cotto has finally started to to live up to your high standards Reg; That in itself is quite an accomplishment ;)
No need to be a smart ass. When it comes to crtitiquing someone's resume, there's nothing you can offer except an opinion. In my opinion, Cotto's resume has been suspect so far.
kg0208
08-22-2007, 02:48 PM
Erik avoid anyone?, the same erik who went southpaw on PAC in the 12th round?
If I'm dealing with probabilities, I'd bet the house that MAB and Erik and JJ didnt avoid anyone...This was proven after the Pacquiao fight...JMM avoided a rematch and went to Indonesia for 30k, who does that?
Now he fights MAB because hey win or lose I'll get mine...its alot better than 30k. They avoided Guzman when Barrios backed down...its a pattern...
PAC ? he took the Lebwadha fight in 2 weeks and beat him for the Title
You are still assuming here. And the only pattern I see here is that you are pushing the fighters than Pacman beat over the one he didn't.
Yes, JMM went to indonesia to fight an unbeaten fighter. How horrible of him.
Guru_Too_You
08-22-2007, 02:49 PM
You are still assuming here. And the only pattern I see here is that you are pushing the fighters than Pacman beat over the one he didn't.
Yes, JMM went to indonesia to fight an unbeaten fighter. How horrible of him.
A fighter that everyone else continues to avoid to this day.
MacManJr.
08-22-2007, 02:50 PM
I cant in recent history. He has been matched perfectly. He has been given exaclty what he was ready for and challenged at the right moments. If he can get past Mosely, he will have a shot at PBF at 28 years old and without taking much if any punishment in the ring.
For all the bad management in boxing that we see (enter Vargas here), Cotto´s has been great. I have to think that if Fernando was managed like this his legacy may have been different.The Baby Bull now bring on David Diaz!
kg0208
08-22-2007, 02:56 PM
Forget PAC...Its about Erik and MAB...PAC made JMM famous thats a fact. He was his biggest name and he scooled PAC I mean made him look bad real bad..
now follow my sense, real world..OK I schooled this guy for 11 rounds...almost tore his head off...my thinking will be "Ok Manager, get me a rematch even for 100k because I'll kill him next time, easy money" that would be real world logic isnt it.
I am not going to forget Pac. YOU brought him up. I am assessing the situation and following logic. And that seems to be the pattern here.
Like you said, Pacman made JMM famous. Prior to that he was a high risk low reward fighter. The reason Pacman fought him was to unify. Why would JMM decide to take an offer to fight the man who just destroyed MAB but duck MAB prior to that?
See how the questions can be turned around? It's assuming.
Biggame
08-22-2007, 03:00 PM
Come again?? Id rather be assuming on the behalf of Erik and MAB and the Junior Jones of the world they have proven themnelves...than JMM..who went to Indonesia..that alone will tell you something...
who would want to go to Indonesia for 30k...Stay level with me bro, you're pretty fair...
I dont know, Id rather take my chance for a million dollars getting beat than go to Indonesia.
As a fighter, I'd tell my manager look get me a fight with PBF and get whipped for 2 Mil..than fight in Indonesia...and what happens he loses...
Thats why he took the MAB fight, he was about to disappear from any contention.
I assume but you must also analyze the situation...I'm assuming It'll be dangerous walking in Brownsville at midnite, its just common sense
You're assuming here like you have an agenda!!
What you don't get here is Mexican fighters aren't as vocal as American fighters, and w/out a big time promoter to help it's worse. w/JMM still not being a star like he should have been he takes what comes to him. Nacho is a very stubborn man and has had both JMM, and Raf since kids so what he says goes.
He took the MAB fight because MAB was ready to fight him. Now since you're doing all this assuming tell me something that's not off of assumption...do you recall any of theses guys calling JMM out back then?
Common since back then was to take a money fight, and leave the guy who possibly beats all of them out of the picture!!
kg0208
08-22-2007, 03:02 PM
Actually youre assuming that fighters ducked JMM. I'm assuming the opposite:good
That was my point:deal
I assume nothing, I just took the opposite point of view than you. My point of view is that the fights simply didn't happen since I am unaware of offers being turned down.
My questions were the inverse of your questions basically.
Boom_Boom
08-22-2007, 03:12 PM
But you're just assuming these things. Morales doesn't have the same style as JMM. It is conceivable that he was viewed as high risk low reward. Why did Barrera beat Hamed but not try and unify with a guy holding 2 of the belts in that weight class? You cannot assume that JMM avoided them cuz the fight didn't come off.
Dont know much about JJ, but Marquez was given 1st priority over Pacquiao to fight Morales first, JMM was offered 1.5 mill but refused because he wanted 3 million?! Morales said fuck it for JMM and offered half as much to Pacquiao.
kg0208
08-22-2007, 03:15 PM
Dont know much about JJ, but Marquez was given 1st priority over Pacquiao to fight Morales first, JMM was offered 1.5 mill but refused because he wanted 3 million?! Morales said fuck it for JMM and offered half as much to Pacquiao.
But wasn't this AFTER Pacman and JMM fought to a draw, and MAB had just beaten Morales for a 2nd time?
Boom_Boom
08-22-2007, 03:18 PM
But wasn't this AFTER Pacman and JMM fought to a draw, and MAB had just beaten Morales for a 2nd time?
yes it was
Caper
08-22-2007, 03:19 PM
No need to be a smart ass. When it comes to crtitiquing someone's resume, there's nothing you can offer except an opinion. In my opinion, Cotto's resume has been suspect so far.
You've gotten quite touchy over time :think
Cotto's resume is solid (that's a bit more accurate) not suspect, but your right you are entiltiled to your own opinion.
BigReg
08-22-2007, 03:32 PM
You've gotten quite touchy over time :think
Cotto's resume is solid (that's a bit more accurate) not suspect, but your right you are entiltiled to your own opinion.
That's the problem with these forums. You can't accurately gauge someone's emotions. I actually thought your post was funny. Me calling you a smart ass was in no way an expression of anger or annoyance.
kg0208
08-22-2007, 03:38 PM
yes it was
Well you see my point then. MAB lost to Pacman and beat Morales. JMM was a big name by then for fighting Pacman to a draw. I could see him asking for good money to fight Morales.
Alo2006
08-22-2007, 03:40 PM
His talent level might have a little something to do with that as well. And don't bank on him beating Mosley either.
Ditto
Caper
08-22-2007, 03:45 PM
That's the problem with these forums. You can't accurately gauge someone's emotions. I actually thought your post was funny. Me calling you a smart ass was in no way an expression of anger or annoyance.
Same here Reg....sorry BigReg, I know you where not truly upset. You did'nt even curse... which is a red flag for me(it means caper made someone real mad) :oops:
Boom_Boom
08-22-2007, 03:57 PM
Well you see my point then. MAB lost to Pacman and beat Morales. JMM was a big name by then for fighting Pacman to a draw. I could see him asking for good money to fight Morales.
Not even Pacquiao was a huge name after the JMM fight, so i dont see how JMM was deserving of $3 million when he barely got $1 mill for Barrera last March, and some interesting notes about JMM's drawing power he only made $30,000 to fight Chris John in indonesia and JMM lost his IBF belt because no one and i mean NO ONE put up a purse bid for him to fight Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym.
JMM simultaneously refused 2 of what would been his biggest paychecks in his career. IMHO Marquez became a popular fighter only AFTER the 2nd Pacquiao/Morales fight.
Biggame
08-22-2007, 04:06 PM
There is no agenda...I believe that PAC will beat JMM next time around so there is no need to minimize him. I am saying avoided is such a big word to use for fighhting men who gives their all in the ring. When someone doesnt fight anyone, is he avoiding for sure? Especially in the case of Erik and MAB who gave their all..
Is Floyd avoiding Cotto? even Margarito a couple of months back? Sound ridiculous now that Floyd is avoiding Margo but thats what people are saying 2 months ago.
Who is JMM to be avoided??? Is he top 100 GOAT?? Duran, Arguello,JCC are to be avoided if there are fighters that needs to be.
Usually in boxing fighters that are avoided are murderous punchers, people that can hurt you...JMM isnt that type of a fighter, hes slick and technical...same as Floyd. You see anyone avoiding Floyd? Because not only do they make money but they think they can beat him:deal
Look you're assuming he avoided them, but like I stated most inside of boxing believe and say it was the other way around. Trying to discredit or make him out to be no-one special don't make it any different.
Boom Boom states that EM offered JMM $1.5mil and i doubt it highly since EM's biggest payday isn't much higher than that!!
There's a big difference in fighting Floyd because a loss to Floyd doesn't hurt as bad as a lost to JMM would back then. Floyd the top dog, brings more money, and there's less to to lose in losing, but JMM bought no money, and everything to lose especially when there's a great chance that you will lose!! Now he brings more Money but he'll even Pac and his camp say they'll take an EASY fight in MAB 1st before fighting JMM!!
kg0208
08-22-2007, 04:14 PM
Not even Pacquiao was a huge name after the JMM fight, so i dont see how JMM was deserving of $3 million when he barely got $1 mill for Barrera last March, and some interesting notes about JMM's drawing power he only made $30,000 to fight Chris John in indonesia and JMM lost his IBF belt because no one and i mean NO ONE put up a purse bid for him to fight Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym.
JMM simultaneously refused 2 of what would been his biggest paychecks in his career. IMHO Marquez became a popular fighter only AFTER the 2nd Pacquiao/Morales fight.
Pacman was a big name after beating MAB. I don't see how you can say he was not.
And whether or not JMM was a big drawing fighter was not the issue. He was well known and on many p4p lists. If he felt he was worth more than 1.5 million, then that is on him. But why would he be afraid to fight Morales if he would later fight MAB.
Boom_Boom
08-22-2007, 04:20 PM
Boom Boom states that EM offered JMM $1.5mil and i doubt it highly since EM's biggest payday isn't much higher than that!!
You need do some research there buddy
1st fight both fighters made $1.75 million
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
2nd fight Morales made $2.75 million, Pacquiao $2 million
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
3rd fight Morales made $2.75 million, Pacquiao $3 million
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
anythign else you like to doubt?
Brickhaus
08-22-2007, 04:27 PM
Miranda has been managed spectacularly considering his rawness and lack of actual ability. The fact that he still gets TV fights based on reputation alone amazes me. He's not a particularly exciting fighter, although his PR people make the press think he is, he's not particularly good, but his management matched him up with good style matchups until he started getting title shots, and then he's lost his two title-type bouts, yet the networks still want to give him contracts. That seems like great management to me, and much tougher to do than with a very talented fighter like Cotto or PBF.
Biggame
08-22-2007, 04:28 PM
You need do some research there buddy
1st fight both fighters made $1.75 million
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
2nd fight Morales made $2.75 million, Pacquiao $2 million
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
3rd fight Morales made $2.75 million, Pacquiao $3 million
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
anythign else you like to doubt?
I'm not refuting how much EM has made, I'm talking bout the offer he supposedly made to JMM for $1.5mil. Tell me when! That's would be a pretty generous offer beings that JMM isn't that big a draw! Pull up that story for me!
Boom_Boom
08-22-2007, 04:29 PM
Pacman was a big name after beating MAB. I don't see how you can say he was not.
And whether or not JMM was a big drawing fighter was not the issue. He was well known and on many p4p lists. If he felt he was worth more than 1.5 million, then that is on him. But why would he be afraid to fight Morales if he would later fight MAB.
Pacman was not even worth 7 figures after the Barrera fight, he needed Morales to break that.
JMM took the Mab fight because there was extreme pressure on him from the media and his fans to do something with his career,Nacho was getting blasted everywhere for the way he was manging JMM, before Barrera he spent the last 2 years preparing for a Pacquiao rematch(only fighting asian southpaws). And i dont believe JMM was afraid one bit of MaB in the first place, he would of took the MaB fight 3 years ago if it had been offered.
Boom_Boom
08-22-2007, 04:31 PM
I'm not refuting how much EM has made, I'm talking bout the offer he supposedly made to JMM for $1.5mil. Tell me when! That's would be a pretty generous offer beings that JMM isn't that big a draw! Pull up that story for me!
Right here
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Then, following Marquez's easy decision victory against Victor Polo on May 7, duBoef said Top Rank offered Marquez $1.5 million to fight Erik Morales this fall on HBO PPV. DuBoef said the Marquez camp asked for $3.5 million, a figure even the popular Morales has never been guaranteed for a fight.
Miranda has been managed spectacularly considering his rawness and lack of actual ability. The fact that he still gets TV fights based on reputation alone amazes me. He's not a particularly exciting fighter, although his PR people make the press think he is, he's not particularly good, but his management matched him up with good style matchups until he started getting title shots, and then he's lost his two title-type bouts, yet the networks still want to give him contracts. That seems like great management to me, and much tougher to do than with a very talented fighter like Cotto or PBF.
He is Colombian, but point taken.
kg0208
08-22-2007, 04:54 PM
Pacman was not even worth 7 figures after the Barrera fight, he needed Morales to break that.
JMM took the Mab fight because there was extreme pressure on him from the media and his fans to do something with his career,Nacho was getting blasted everywhere for the way he was manging JMM, before Barrera he spent the last 2 years preparing for a Pacquiao rematch(only fighting asian southpaws). And i dont believe JMM was afraid one bit of MaB in the first place, he would of took the MaB fight 3 years ago if it had been offered.
That is the point of my conversation. It's not about money. Its about whether JMM ducked MAB and Morales.
And Pacman wasn't worth 7 figures means nothing. Compare that to how much most other champion at that weight class make. He was still one of the biggest draws in the small weight classes and he was a p4p fighter.
Boom_Boom
08-22-2007, 05:03 PM
That is the point of my conversation. It's not about money. Its about whether JMM ducked MAB and Morales.
Pricing out is a hidden way of ducking out of a fight you dont want.
He did it with Morales, I dont know anything about Mab, but like i said if the Mab fight was offered 3 years ago he would of taken it no matter how much he was getting.
JMM was being unrealistic for money he wants, against guys who were the bigger draw and that were getting no where near what JMM was asking for, but was willing to fight for chulk change in someones backyard across the world.
So its either one of the two, JMM doesnt know shit about fight Purses or didnt want these fights.
So its either one of the two, JMM doesnt know shit about fight Purses or didnt want these fights.
I dont have any idea whether JMM wanted the 2nd fight or not, but I have heard that Nacho can be a very overbearing and manager, though a great trainer.
kg0208
08-22-2007, 05:12 PM
Pricing out is a hidden way of ducking out of a fight you dont want.
He did it with Morales, I dont know anything about Mab, but like i said if the Mab fight was offered 3 years ago he would of taken it no matter how much he was getting.
JMM was being unrealistic for money he wants, against guys who were the bigger draw and that were getting no where near what JMM was asking for, but was willing to fight for chulk change in someones backyard across the world.
So its either one of the two, JMM doesnt know shit about fight Purses or didnt want these fights.
Yes it is a hidden way of ducking. However, it makes NO sense to think that he would have fought MAB 3 years ago, but avoided Morales after and even older MAB beat him.
istmeno
08-22-2007, 05:22 PM
He is Colombian, but point taken.
pr people means pubic relations people. not puerto rican as you assumed
pr people means pubic relations people. not puerto rican as you assumed
Ahhhh. point taken.
Boom_Boom
08-22-2007, 05:24 PM
Yes it is a hidden way of ducking. However, it makes NO sense to think that he would have fought MAB 3 years ago, but avoided Morales after and even older MAB beat him.
SRL ducked Iran Barkley even though Duran beat him, whats your point?
Biggame
08-23-2007, 10:59 AM
Right here
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Then, following Marquez's easy decision victory against Victor Polo on May 7, duBoef said Top Rank offered Marquez $1.5 million to fight Erik Morales this fall on HBO PPV. DuBoef said the Marquez camp asked for $3.5 million, a figure even the popular Morales has never been guaranteed for a fight.
:good
Now w/that being said is this a EM who was coming off of a loss?
Biggame
08-23-2007, 11:06 AM
Pricing out is a hidden way of ducking out of a fight you dont want.
He did it with Morales, I dont know anything about Mab, but like i said if the Mab fight was offered 3 years ago he would of taken it no matter how much he was getting.
JMM was being unrealistic for money he wants, against guys who were the bigger draw and that were getting no where near what JMM was asking for, but was willing to fight for chulk change in someones backyard across the world.
So its either one of the two, JMM doesnt know shit about fight Purses or didnt want these fights.
It's called having Nacho Bernstien as your manager, and trainer! Even if that article is 100% true Nacho still made the calls, and JMM and Raf are very loyal to him, and honor/respect whatever decision he makes or whatever he says!! Things will sway more now that he's w/GBP!!
theHawtness
08-23-2007, 11:29 AM
this shows to you how arum is a genius.
Tito Time
08-23-2007, 01:26 PM
Plenty of fighters have been managed well it all depends on how they rise and complete each hurdle thrown at them. I can think of a few but one that comes to mind is surely ODLH, he fought good names that where either past their prime or fighters that had previously fought Tito and got smashed small enough for DLH to consume, similar to a bird regurgitating already half digested foods for their offspring.
:lol:
Tito Time
08-23-2007, 02:40 PM
I agree with you. Although I am not dissing Cotto, I think too many people are giving him too much credit for his win over Judah (low to medium risk fight with a high-reward because he beat a "name fighter"). Some of his wins over opponents were due to the size difference. You have to know that Cotto was drying himself out big time to make 140, and it nearly cost him in the Corley and Torres fights. If he beats Mosley, Cintron, Margarito, Williams, or even a Clottey, then I think it would be fair to start mentioning him along with Tito. Until then, he is a solid fighter who is now ready to step-up the comp. No more easy fights.
Good point.
pipe wrenched
08-23-2007, 03:05 PM
I appolagize if it was mentioned earlier (the thread is pretty deep), but the one comes to mind for me and he at least has the same promoter is K. Pavlik. His comp level has been gradually stepped up, he's 31-0 (28 KO) is 25 years old and now ready to come into the "Big Leagues" standing a good chance of success.
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