Gift decisions

[He Hate Me]

1. Pernell whitaker vs Chavez

2. Pernell whitaker vs Dela Hoya

3. Dela Hoya vs Strum

4. Chavez vs Randall

5. Spinks vs Holmes

6. Derrick Gainer vs navarro

7. Hatton vs collazo

7. vargas vs wright

[Zakman]

1. Jermain Taylor vs. Bernard Hopkins I

2. Jermain Taylor vs. Bernard Hopkins II

3. Jermain Taylor vs. Winky Wright

[Thread Stealer]

I assume people will name a bunch of decisions that are very close and could've gone either way, as people always do when this subject comes up.

Here are some REAL robberies.

Alfredo Escalera-Tyrone Everett
Evander Holyfield-Lennox Lewis I
Azumah Nelson-Jeff Fenech I
Michael Spinks-Larry Holmes II

[carpi]

Gaywether vs Castillo I

[Caper]

I assume people will name a bunch of decisions that are very close and could've gone either way, as people always do when this subject comes up.

Here are some REAL robberies.

Alfredo Escalera-Tyrone Everett
Evander Holyfield-Lennox Lewis I
Azumah Nelson-Jeff Fenech I
Michael Spinks-Larry Holmes II

One that really comes to mind is Urango vs Rhabib (Not sure how to spell the name)

[Stewbear]

The biggest myth in boxing is that Chavez vs Sweet Pea was a gift.

Lewis - Holyfield and Hagler - Leonard were the worst in big fights.

[BobDigi5060]

No way did Hagler win that fight.

[doublesuited]

I assume people will name a bunch of decisions that are very close and could've gone either way, as people always do when this subject comes up.

Here are some REAL robberies.

Alfredo Escalera-Tyrone Everett
Evander Holyfield-Lennox Lewis I
Azumah Nelson-Jeff Fenech I
Michael Spinks-Larry Holmes II Good post.

Some of the other fights posted here were quite close and depending on how one scores fights, could've gone either way.

[klion22]

1. Jermain Taylor vs. Bernard Hopkins I

2. Jermain Taylor vs. Bernard Hopkins II

3. Jermain Taylor vs. Winky Wright

The question was "gift decisions". Not "close and controversial decisions that could've gone either way."

[Napoleon]

The question was "gift decisions". Not "close and controversial decisions that could've gone either way."

Jermaine Taylor didn't win the fight did he?

If he didn't then it was given to him as a gift.

[klion22]

Jermaine Taylor didn't win the fight did he?

If he didn't then it was given to him as a gift.

Well, my point is that they were close fights that weren't decisive. So i wouldn't call them "gifts". To me, a gift is when one fighter has decisively won and still gets the short end.

For instance, Wright/Vargas was robbery. And if i recall correctly, wasn't Quartay robbed against Forrest last year?

[MacManJr.]

Demetrius Hopkins vs Stevie Forbes

[BigReg]

Jermaine Taylor didn't win the fight did he?

If he didn't then it was given to him as a gift.

It's debateable whether or not he won. You could make an argument both ways. Neither Hopkins or Wright clearly beat Taylor, as a result, it's not a gift decision.

[joeboxer]

1. Pernell whitaker vs Chavez

2. Pernell whitaker vs Dela Hoya

3. Dela Hoya vs Strum

4. Chavez vs Randall

5. Spinks vs Holmes

6. Derrick Gainer vs navarro

7. Hatton vs collazo

7. vargas vs wrightI had hatton beating Collazzo by a point. it was a close, hard to score fight. calling it a gift is ridiculous.

[Alo2006]

1. Jermain Taylor vs. Bernard Hopkins I

2. Jermain Taylor vs. Bernard Hopkins II

3. Jermain Taylor vs. Winky Wright

JT won the first. Didn't see the second fight. The Winky fight was called right, a draw.

[Alo2006]

DLH vs Quartey

DLH vs Tito

[BigReg]

DLH vs Quartey

DLH vs Tito

I think both of those fights were too close to call either one a gift.

[Caper]

JT won the first. Didn't see the second fight. The Winky fight was called right, a draw.

Co-Sign

The second Bhop vs JT fight was also extremely close could have gone either way.

[Zakman]

It's debateable whether or not he won. You could make an argument both ways. Neither Hopkins or Wright clearly beat Taylor, as a result, it's not a gift decision.

Bull. Hopkins and Wright both beat Taylor - and they would have gotten the nods, too if it wasn't for the power of HBO.:yep

[BobDigi5060]

DLH threw away his excuse in the way he fought in the late rounds. But this fight was pretty much a gift.

DLH sealed the deal with the 12th round KD.

[He Hate Me]

Ok that was the weakest link on the list, I won't argue however there was a big demand for a rematch but hattan knows better.

[BigReg]

Bull. Hopkins and Wright both beat Taylor - and they would have gotten the nods, too if it wasn't for the power of HBO.:yep

Well here's how I see it. I'm a Hopkins fan. I wanted badly for Hopkins to win. When the fight went to the cards(in both fights), I was hoping that Hopkins would get the decision. However, I felt that it could go either way. When Lewis fought Holyfield, and the fight went to the cards, I was almost 100% sure Lewis was getting the decision. I was shocked when they called it a draw. To me, this is a gift decision.

[Napoleon]

Well, my point is that they were close fights that weren't decisive. So i wouldn't call them "gifts". To me, a gift is when one fighter has decisively won and still gets the short end.

For instance, Wright/Vargas was robbery. And if i recall correctly, wasn't Quartay robbed against Forrest last year?

If one guy wins and the other guy gets the decision then thats a robbery.

If its a close fight and instead of a draw one of the fighters get it, thats a gift.

[MacManJr.]

Ya'll aint feeling me when I said Demetrius Hopkins vs Stevie Forbes??????

[Napoleon]

It's debateable whether or not he won. You could make an argument both ways. Neither Hopkins or Wright clearly beat Taylor, as a result, it's not a gift decision.

Hopkins was the champ in the first fight. Taylor didn't beat him, therefore he shouldn't have gotten the decision.

[Brickhaus]

This year - DHop-Forbes and Diamond-Huerta. Anything else this year that's been on US TV was merely a controversial decision.

[BigReg]

]If one guy wins and the other guy gets the decision then thats a robbery.[/font]

If its a close fight and instead of a draw one of the fighters get it, thats a gift.

If one guy gets the decison, how can you say that the other man won? The answer is you can't. However, you can debate the decision. Unless most people agree that the wrong fighter got the decision, then it's not a robbery. Boxings fans are split when it comes to Taylor vs. Nard and Winky. There is no consensus. Therefore, their is no robbery.

[Brickhaus]

Bull. Hopkins and Wright both beat Taylor - and they would have gotten the nods, too if it wasn't for the power of HBO.:yep

Whatever you say, *******jack.

Edit: ha, I never knew a brand of popcorn was a censored word....

[emanuel_augustus]

4. Chavez vs Randall

This was no robbery. Randall outboxed Chavez.

Oba Carr w10 Livingstone Bramble

[Napoleon]

If one guy gets the decison, how can you say that the other man one? The answer is you can't. However, you can debate the decision. Unless most people agree that the wrong fighter got the decision, then it's not a robbery. Boxings fans are split when it comes to Taylor vs. Nard and Winky. There is no consensus. Therefore, their is no robbery.

What do you mean you can't.

Lets say, what if Tito won a decision over Wright wouldn't the people be able to see that Wright beat him?

[Alo2006]

This was no robbery. Randall outboxed Chavez.

Oba Carr w10 Livingstone Bramble

Agrees with Randall out boxing Chavez.

[BigReg]

Hopkins was the champ in the first fight. Taylor didn't beat him, therefore he shouldn't have gotten the decision.

Your logic is completely flawed. There are 4 ways to win a fight. KO,T.K.O, DQ, and decsion. There were no KD's and no one should have been DQ'd, that only leaves a decision. When you're judging a fight it is done on a round by round basis. There are various criteria for judging a fight. One criteria never used is, who the champ is. A judge cannot sit there and say "Fighter A won the round by a slight margin according to the criterea used, but fighter B is the champ, so I'll give the round to fighter B". It doesn't work this way.

[BobDigi5060]

Everybody and Hopkins knows that if he pressured JT anymore than he did he would have been hurt or TKO'd. This explains the way that he fought. Don't make excuses for him because it was up to him to make it happen.

[klion22]

Your logic is completely flawed. There are 4 ways to win a fight. KO,T.K.O, DQ, and decsion. There were no KD's and no one should have been DQ'd, that only leaves a decision. When you're judging a fight it is done on a round by round basis. There are various criteria for judging a fight. One criteria never used is, who the champ is. A judge cannot sit there and say "Fighter A won the round by a slight margin according to the criterea used, but fighter B is the champ, so I'll give the round to fighter B". It doesn't work this way.

Man, you are making too much sense. Stop it already.

[Caper]

You forgot Whitaker vs Ramirez I. Biggest robbery of his career.

Chavez vs Sweet is bigger in my opinion, because of status.

[TroubleLurks]

Bull. Hopkins and Wright both beat Taylor - and they would have gotten the nods, too if it wasn't for the power of HBO.:yepAlways with the conspiracy theories.:-( Aren't you needed at ground Zero with the rest of the 9-11 conspiracy nut jobs? Winky did not beat Taylor. That fight was a draw if I ever saw one.:thumbsup

[TroubleLurks]

Allan Green vs Emmett Linton was a hose job from hell. Green lost that fight if you own a set of eyeballs.

[4Rounder]

Many of these so called gift decisions come up only as a matter of the skewed perceptions of some.

Such as Chavez-Whitaker, DLH-Quartey, and many others, only a handful and mostly haters and nuthuggers present these.

Besides that there are many true shameless robberies such as in Demetrius Hopkins fight against Forbes where almost everybody saw right through that.

[PolishPummler]

Hopkins didnt start to fight until the 9th round TWICE against Taylor.How people consider those fights a robbery is beyond me.

[4Rounder]

The biggest myth in boxing is that Chavez vs Sweet Pea was a gift.


:thumbsup

[Stewbear]

:thumbsup

Lol thanks it is sad how bad biased american commentry can create such a long standing myth.

[Caper]

Lol thanks it is sad how bad biased american commentry can create such a long standing myth.

Shit man I must have been smoking some good stuff if you guys are truely saying that Chavez won that fight fair and square. I'll look it over but from what I remember I had Swea up by two rounds. Though now that I think about it, it was not sinfully contraversial.

[Stewbear]

Shit man I must have been smoking some good stuff if you guys are truely saying that Chavez won that fight fair and square. I'll look it over but from what I remember I had Swea up by two rounds. Though now that I think about it, it was not sinfully contraversial.

Lol I had Chavez by one round, though it would heen by two or three if pea had had the points taken off for his fouls!
Despite that scoring the fight one round in favour of pea I can completely understand.

[BigReg]

Allan Green vs Emmett Linton was a hose job from hell. Green lost that fight if you own a set of eyeballs.

I own a set of eye balls, two of them acutally(I wear contacts). I saw that fight, and it was not a hose job. Linton made it interesting, and you could make an argument that he won, but no hose job.

[the_what]

De La Hoya vs Sturm

Hopkins vs Taylor 1

Winky vs Taylor

Chavez vs Whitaker

[Zakman]

Whatever you say, *******jack.

Edit: ha, I never knew a brand of popcorn was a censored word....

It has to with its being a racial insult. Anyway, Taylor was HBOs latest "up and comer" and neither Hopkins or Wright has ever been particularly popular with the boxing establishment. The injustice done to Hopkins in the first fight is particularly glaring, and it is pretty clear that the boxing powers that be wanted to get rid of him.

Taylor just isn't that good. He can't seem to beat ANYONE concincingly. Even guys coming up from lighter weights. Pavlik is really gonna expose WHY this guy has had to get decisions handed to him to "win" fights.:yep

[BigReg]

Bullshit , Hopkins gave Taylor a beat down in the first fight . Taylor did dick and the title was given to him . Taken from a man that defended it 20 times . That was the biggest robbery to me because it wasn't some bullshit title . :nono

I'm gonna go ahead and say you don't know what you're talking about. I was rooting big time for Nard. However, Hopkins barley threw any punches in the first half of the fight. He came on strong at the end, however his slow start cost him the fight. There was no robbery, I have no Idea why people keep saying this

[TroubleLurks]

I own a set of eye balls, two of them acutally(I wear contacts). I saw that fight, and it was not a hose job. Linton made it interesting, and you could make an argument that he won, but no hose job.Get 'em cleaned pal. Linton won that fight clear as day and here's the scores 92-97, 91-98, 91-98 all for Green. The judges made sure there would be no old vet upsetting a younger undefeated prospect on their watch. = Gift

[PolishPummler]

Because to give Taylor the win you have to give him 7 of the first 8 rounds and there is no way in hell that happened ! He was not landing any punches . Hopkins wasn't throwing a whole lot but he was landing from the begining so how did he lose 7 of the first 8 . It's insane :patsch

HOW could give Hopkins any of the first 8 rounds?

He wasnt doing SHIT but posing.

[PolishPummler]

116-112 Hopkins ! Exactly the way the 1 judge that wasn't paid off saw it !

:lol:

Have we not learned time and time again that there is always 1 judge with a wild score card.

PLEASE tell me how in the world Hopkins won 8 rounds in either fight.

[KillerInstinct]

:lol:

Have we not learned time and time again that there is always 1 judge with a wild score card.

PLEASE tell me how in the world Hopkins won 8 rounds in either fight.

I'm with you man, the people who say Hopkins are robbed are insane. They probably only watched the last 3 rounds of both fights :patsch How you can call them GIFT decisions is beyond me!! All of Taylor's fights has been close, and he hasn't won convingly, but there is a huge difference between a gift decision and a fight which could of gone either way, as someone has already stated previously in this thread.

[Thread Stealer]

DLH sealed the deal with the 12th round KD.

No he didn't.

If Oscar deserved to win the Ike fight, it was because of the 12th, and even then, it's giving him the benefit of the doubt.

That was one of the easiest of the controversial DLH fights to score.

[Boinko]

It has to with its being a racial insult. Anyway, Taylor was HBOs latest "up and comer" and neither Hopkins or Wright has ever been particularly popular with the boxing establishment. The injustice done to Hopkins in the first fight is particularly glaring, and it is pretty clear that the boxing powers that be wanted to get rid of him.
Are you ever going to provide actual evidence for these claims? Just saying it doesn't make it true.

Taylor just isn't that good. He can't seem to beat ANYONE concincingly. Even guys coming up from lighter weights. Pavlik is really gonna expose WHY this guy has had to get decisions handed to him to "win" fights.:yep
I guess Hopkins and Winky weren't that good either since those fights were all very close even if you had Taylor losing all of them. Strange considering most people had them in the top 3 P4P when Taylor fought them.

[Thread Stealer]

2. Pernell whitaker vs Dela Hoya


A very close fight and difficult to score. No gift, the only problem I had was that the judges had Oscar so far ahead, one having it 9-3.



4. Chavez vs Randall


I would think you're talking about the rematch. Yeah, Chavez got a gift.



7. Hatton vs collazo

7. vargas vs wright

Both were close fights, especially the Hatton-Collazo fight.

[sues2nd]

The biggest myth in boxing is that Chavez vs Sweet Pea was a gift.

Lewis - Holyfield and Hagler - Leonard were the worst in big fights.

No the biggest myth would be that you have even seen the fight.

Sweet Pea SCHOOOOOOOOLLED Chavez. The fight was not close. I would LOVE to hear how this wasnt a robbery?

[emanuel_augustus]

How about Dale Brown/O'Neil Bell in recent years?

[dave82]

Sweet Pea vs Jose Luis Ramirez 1 Pathetic scoring
Sweet Pea vs Chavez (hearing the scores read out still makes me sick)
Lewis - Holyfield 1
Oscar vs Trinidad i had it 8-4 (When the annoucers read the score cards i pointed at the tv and gave Oscar a Nelson HA - Ha laugh).

[brooklyn1550]

Whitaker-Ramirez 1
Whitaker-Chavez
Everett-Escalera
Lewis-Holyfield 1
Hopkins-Forbes

[dave82]

A very close fight and difficult to score. No gift, the only problem I had was that the judges had Oscar so far ahead, one having it 9-3.




I would think you're talking about the rematch. Yeah, Chavez got a gift.




Both were close fights, especially the Hatton-Collazo fight.

I have to agree with you on the PW vs ODLH fight. 116-110 was way out

[dagame328]

Fights i've saw, and robberies only:
Forbes-Hopkins
Lewis-Holyfield 1
Byrd-Oquendo
Tarver-Johnson 1
Burton-Augustus 1
Tua-Rahman 2

[psychopath]

There's no such thing as gift decission. It's ONLY a term being used by the agitated delussional fans when the result of a close fight doesn't matched their expectations.

:lol: :D :rofl

. . . but I do believe in ROBBERIES . . . it's the case of a fight going to the clearly losing fighter.


:good

[Ramshall1]

No the biggest myth would be that you have even seen the fight.

Sweet Pea SCHOOOOOOOOLLED Chavez. The fight was not close. I would LOVE to hear how this wasnt a robbery?

If by "schooled" you mean he ran from him like a schoolgirl running from Mark Chamura then yes.

[dave82]

If by "schooled" you mean he ran from him like a schoolgirl running from Mark Chamura then yes.

And he still managed to outland chavez!! 10 rounds to 2 Pernell Whitaker. End of story

[kg0208]

If by "schooled" you mean he ran from him like a schoolgirl running from Mark Chamura then yes.

No we mean that he outlanded him and made him look silly.

[Ramshall1]

He ran like a little rabbit, there was no fight to score. . . just a chase scene.

[dave82]

No we mean that he outlanded him and made him look silly.

What do you think the punchstat was on Chavez hitting air molecules?

[Stewbear]

No the biggest myth would be that you have even seen the fight.

Sweet Pea SCHOOOOOOOOLLED Chavez. The fight was not close. I would LOVE to hear how this wasnt a robbery?

Chavez – Whitaker

Round 1
10-9 Chavez

Round 2
10-9

Round 3
9-10

Round 4
10-9

Round 5
10-9

Round 6
10-9

Round 7
9-10

Round 8
9-10

Round 9
10-9

Round 10
9-10

Round 11
9-10

Round 12
10-9

[brooklyn1550]

He ran like a little rabbit, there was no fight to score. . . just a chase scene.

Clean punching and ring generalship - Sweet Pea
Effective aggression - Not Chavez that night

If you score the fight right, Pernell won...BOTTOM LINE

[dave82]

Chavez – Whitaker

Round 1
10-9 Chavez

Round 2
10-9

Round 3
9-10

Round 4
10-9



Round 5
10-9

Round 6
10-9

Round 7
9-10

Round 8
9-10

Round 9
10-9

Round 10
9-10

Round 11
9-10

Round 12
10-9

Another tool on ESB

[Vantage_West]

1. Pernell whitaker vs Chavez:good

2. Pernell whitaker vs Dela Hoya...close fight could of gone either way but pernell dominated better while oscar just stormed at the end of the round but wasnt as succesful like ray leonard was agasinst hagler

3. Dela Hoya vs Strum:good

4. Chavez vs Randall :yep nah one sided pasting..if your talking about the others rubber matches then i dont know but it was all frankie the first fight

5. Spinks vs Holmes well holmes should of been a bit busier but yea robbery

6. Derrick Gainer vs navarro dont care

7. Hatton vs collazo hatton looked bad that was it he won the fight just didnt look good doing it.

7. vargas vs wright-it was a close fight winky wasnt the winky that we see him today he used his southpawness to make vargas dop mistakes but vargas just barged him to the ropes and won the fight very similar to the hatton collazo match in which one man looks good against the other while the other wins the rounds. 3/7:hi: door to your left

[brooklyn1550]

Chavez – Whitaker

Round 1
10-9 Chavez

Round 2
10-9

Round 3
9-10

Round 4
10-9

Round 5
10-9

Round 6
10-9

Round 7
9-10

Round 8
9-10

Round 9
10-9

Round 10
9-10

Round 11
9-10

Round 12
10-9

7-5 Chavez?:patsch

[kg0208]

What do you think the punchstat was on Chavez hitting air molecules?

I could ask you the exact same thing.

[Stewbear]

Another tool on ESB

a lot easier to throw insults around that produce cards and argue them intelligently:good

[Ramshall1]

Clean punching and ring generalship - Sweet Pea
Effective aggression - Not Chavez that night

If you score the fight right, Pernell won...BOTTOM LINE

there was no fight to score, Pernell simply ran from him. . . never even tried to hurt him. Chavez couldnt catch him, the draw was appropriate since nothing happened.

[Stewbear]

7-5 Chavez?:patsch

Lol my bad had him by two thought there was a 10 all round in their:patsch
while since I have looked at it but as I say one or two rounds either way is fine.
What annoys me is the false idea that sweet pea somehow dominated chavez, which is completely untrue the commentary is the worst I think I have ever heard in afight.
Also there was a lot of fouling against Chavez, and I think he would beat whitaker at least 7 out of 10 tiems prime for prime especially with a fair ref

[dave82]

a lot easier to throw insults around that produce cards and argue them intelligently:good

You scored the fight for Chavez which shows lack of intelligence. I rather bang my head against a wall than convince you otherwise.

[klion22]

What do you guys think about the Forrest/Quartey fight? I thought Quartey was decisively the better man but Forrest got the decision.

[brooklyn1550]

while since I have looked at it but as I say one or two rounds either way is fine.
What annoys me is the false idea that sweet pea somehow dominated chavez, which is completely untrue the commentary is the worst I think I have ever heard in afight.
Also there was a lot of fouling against Chavez, and I think he would beat whitaker at least 7 out of 10 tiems prime for prime especially with a fair ref

I guess we see things a little differently...

[kg0208]

there was no fight to score, Pernell simply ran from him. . . never even tried to hurt him. Chavez couldnt catch him, the draw was appropriate since nothing happened.

Whitaker was right in front of him the majority of the time. He was in the pocket constantly.

[dave82]

What do you guys think about the Forrest/Quartey fight? I thought Quartey was decisively the better man but Forrest got the decision.

I had Quartey win that fight by a very slim margin.

[Ramshall1]

Whitaker was right in front of him the majority of the time. He was in the pocket constantly.

you should smoke weed, cause you got a bad case of Myopia. He ran from him, plain and simple. He saw the beating Meldrick took and said to hell with that, Im gonna run.

[kg0208]

you should smoke weed, cause you got a bad case of Myopia. He ran from him, plain and simple. He saw the beating Meldrick took and said to hell with that, Im gonna run.

Blah blah....I JUST watched the fight again. You're wrong....and we all know how you think that not simply standing and trading is running. So sorry, I have no reason to bother with you on this subject.

[brooklyn1550]

He saw the beating Meldrick took and said to hell with that, Im gonna run.

But he also said "I'm going to get the better of him on the inside and outland him"

[dave82]

you should smoke weed, cause you got a bad case of Myopia. He ran from him, plain and simple. He saw the beating Meldrick took and said to hell with that, Im gonna run.

i thought radial keratotomy helped myopia?!?!

[Amsterdam]

When I think of 'GIFT DECISION', I think of none other than that scumbag Sven Ottke and his corruption based promotional outfit that gave him a good universally considered 4 blatant robberies and 3 other swing fight hometown decisions.

This alone makes him void from the top 10 SMW list in my opinion. I don't know what's worse, Ottke and his 'title run', or the german fanbase that respects it.

[dave82]

When I think of 'GIFT DECISION', I think of none other than that scumbag Sven Ottke and his corruption based promotional outfit that gave him a good universally considered 4 blatant robberies and 3 other swing fight hometown decisions.

This alone makes him void from the top 10 SMW list in my opinion. I don't know what's worse, Ottke and his 'title run', or the german fanbase that respects it.

I don't rate Sven Ottke, however I do give him props for knocking out big mouth Mundine. But i do agree with your post

[Ramshall1]

Blah blah....I JUST watched the fight again. You're wrong....and we all know how you think that not simply standing and trading is running. So sorry, I have no reason to bother with you on this subject.

uhh, James Toney never ran. . . he didnt exactly brawl either. . . He stood in the pocket and countered. . . That is NOT what Pernell did, he ran, plain and simple. . . sure some were in awe because the great Chavez wasnt having his way and looked mortal, but that doesnt change the fact that Pernell ran like a scared little girl and didnt deserve the "win". The draw was appropriate.

[brooklyn1550]

uhh, James Toney never ran. . . he didnt exactly brawl either. . . He stood in the pocket and countered. . . That is NOT what Pernell did, he ran, plain and simple. . . sure some were in awe because the great Chavez wasnt having his way and looked mortal, but that doesnt change the fact that Pernell ran like a scared little girl and didnt deserve the "win". The draw was appropriate.

Scared little girl? Not the way to describe an ATG fighter

[kg0208]

uhh, James Toney never ran. . . he didnt exactly brawl either. . . He stood in the pocket and countered. . . That is NOT what Pernell did, he ran, plain and simple. . . sure some were in awe because the great Chavez wasnt having his way and looked mortal, but that doesnt change the fact that Pernell ran like a scared little girl and didnt deserve the "win". The draw was appropriate.

Yeah, ran his fist right into Chavez's face. I don't care what you say on the matter. You are biased against that fighting style.

[Ramshall1]

Scared little girl? Not the way to describe an ATG fighter

true, I went too far with that, I gotta give Pea props for getting in the ring with some bad asses. . . .even though he ran from some of them.

[Amsterdam]

I don't rate Sven Ottke, however I do give him props for knocking out big mouth Mundine. But i do agree with your post

In an even further show of how shit Sven Ottke was as a professional, a 10-0 Mundine with no amatuer experience was ahead on points before the KO.

Actually ahead on points in Germany against Ottke! Damn, Mundine must have won every round prior....

[brooklyn1550]

true, I went too far with that, I gotta give Pea props for getting in the ring with some bad asses

Fair enough:good

[Ramshall1]

Yeah, ran his fist right into Chavez's face. I don't care what you say on the matter. You are biased against that fighting style.

I am biased against the "running style". I can respect the boxer style though. . .like Shane, James Toney, Winky etc

[kg0208]

I am biased against the "running style". I can respect the boxer style though. . .like Shane, James Toney, Winky etc

Whatever you say.

[Amsterdam]

I am biased against the "running style". I can respect the boxer style though. . .like Shane, James Toney, Winky etc

Winky is not a boxer, he's a technical pressure fighter with an extensive degree of defence. Shane is also not a boxer per say, more of a reflexive boxer-puncher.

[dave82]

In an even further show of how shit Sven Ottke was as a professional, a 10-0 Mundine with no amatuer experience was ahead on points before the KO.

Actually ahead on points in Germany against Ottke! Damn, Mundine must have won every round prior....

Do you know why a fight between Joe C and Sven was never made? I would have loved to seen Sven getting koed.

[Amsterdam]

Do you know why a fight between Joe C and Sven was never made? I would have loved to seen Sven getting koed.

Back then, before the hand issue's, JC would have sparked the little running shit without a doubt.

It never happened because Ottke and his promotional outfit ducked Calzaghe. ****** made an offer for a 30/70 cut and for the fight to be in Germany for Ottke to unify with Calzaghe, but it was avoided by Ottke and camp.

Too bad.

[4Rounder]

uhh, James Toney never ran. . . he didnt exactly brawl either. . . He stood in the pocket and countered. . . That is NOT what Pernell did, he ran, plain and simple. . . sure some were in awe because the great Chavez wasnt having his way and looked mortal, but that doesnt change the fact that Pernell ran like a scared little girl and didnt deserve the "win". The draw was appropriate.
I also believe the draw was appropiate, Whitaker just didn't do enough to take the win and Chavez, even though he couldn't push Whitaker around and handle him like he usually did on other opponents did just enough to close the points gap.

Correctly called by the two professional boxing judges, 114-114 all the way.

[dave82]

Back then, before the hand issue's, JC would have sparked the little running shit without a doubt.

It never happened because Ottke and his promotional outfit ducked Calzaghe. ****** made an offer for a 30/70 cut and for the fight to be in Germany for Ottke to unify with Calzaghe, but it was avoided by Ottke and camp.

Too bad.

Fucking pathetic I say

[Bummy Davis]

How about Dale Brown/O'Neil Bell in recent years?

Bad Robbery

[Bummy Davis]

James Toney/Dave Tiberi was one of the worst I saw, Golota Ruiz/Byrd were bad decisions but closer, Sweat pea's fights were hard to judge because he was mostly defensive but the fight vs Delahoya was close

[dave82]

James Toney/Dave Tiberi was one of the worst I saw, Golota Ruiz/Byrd were bad decisions but closer, Sweat pea's fights were hard to judge because he was mostly defensive but the fight vs Delahoya was close

James Toney/Dave Tiberi forgot that one. Didnt Dave retire after this fight because of the decision?

[He Hate Me]

The ref missed a knochdown in the whitaker dela hoya fight which would have made it more decisive.

[He Hate Me]

some on this forum likes to believe pernell liked to run, other greats had the same style, whitaker made fighting going backwards look so easy. Did you see how everyone was in awe of larios, his style was going back while still dominating the fight. Camacho had the same style as well, no doubt about it pernell clearly won against chavez.

[Sonny Carson]

James Toney/Dave Tiberi was one of the worst I saw,
I haven't seen that fight but I hear Toney was out of shape before the fight.

[Thread Stealer]

some on this forum likes to believe pernell liked to run, other greats had the same style, whitaker made fighting going backwards look so easy. Did you see how everyone was in awe of larios, his style was going back while still dominating the fight. Camacho had the same style as well, no doubt about it pernell clearly won against chavez.

Whitaker was not a runner. He used more backwards movement than usual against Chavez, but he usually stayed in the pocket and liked to circle. He was also adept at fighting inside, or coming forward and being sneaky with his right elbow/forearm, then coming with a left uppercut after that.

Chavez-Whitaker wasn't as bad of a robbery as it's often made out to be, but Whitaker still won it 8-4 on my card. The problem was mainly that Whitaker won rounds so much more clearly than Chavez did. Some of the early rounds were close, and could go to Chavez. Whitaker won his rounds by wider margins.

Whitaker deserved it, but the decision is far from the Escalera-Everett, Holyfield-Lewis I field of robberies.

[Sonny Carson]

Whitaker was not a runner. He used more backwards movement than usual against Chavez, but he usually stayed in the pocket and liked to circle. He was also adept at fighting inside, or coming forward and being sneaky with his right elbow/forearm, then coming with a left uppercut after that.

Chavez-Whitaker wasn't as bad of a robbery as it's often made out to be, but Whitaker still won it 8-4 on my card. The problem was mainly that Whitaker won rounds so much more clearly than Chavez did. Some of the early rounds were close, and could go to Chavez. Whitaker won his rounds by wider margins.

Whitaker deserved it, but the decision is far from the Escalera-Everett, Holyfield-Lewis I field of robberies.
The Escalera-Everett fight made me cry when I first saw it knowing that he died right after it.

[Thread Stealer]

The Escalera-Everett fight made me cry when I first saw it knowing that he died right after it.

What were the circumstances?

I mean did his wife walk in on him with the tranny, or found out about it and confronted him, or what?

From what I've seen of Everett, he would've given Arguello a tough fight too.

[Thread Stealer]

About 15 of Eubank's

Chris Eubank-Michael Watson I

I hesitate to call Eubank's rematch with Nigel Benn a "gift", but I had Benn ahead 115-113.

[Sonny Carson]

What were the circumstances?

I mean did his wife walk in on him with the tranny, or found out about it and confronted him, or what?

From what I've seen of Everett, he would've given Arguello a tough fight too.
Tranny :lol: he go shot by his girlfriend in Philiadelphia. That and Left Eye burning up Andre Rison's house let me know that chick's from philly are crazy.

[Cookie]

Sturm-DLH is one of the worst robberies I've ever seen. That was a legit robbery. Some fights the scoring is totally shit and you think "that was a robbery". But there's not always a clear motive for it to be a real robbery, in the sense that it was genuinely corrupt, as opposed to simply woeful scoring. There was with DLH: a HUGE fight with Hopkins to unify the four middleweight titles. Tens of millions of dollars.

The score cards might as well have been filled out before the opening bell. No way DLH was losing as long as he could stand on two feet.

[Thread Stealer]

Tranny :lol: he go shot by his girlfriend in Philiadelphia. That and Left Eye burning up Andre Rison's house let me know that chick's from philly are crazy.

Yeah, his girlfriend killed him for fucking a tranny.

At least that's what I've read on basically every boxing message board (and from the smart posters, too).

[Sonny Carson]

Yeah, his girlfriend killed him for fucking a tranny.

At least that's what I've read on basically every boxing message board (and from the smart posters, too).
Oh shit I didn't know he caught with a Tranny that's some gay shit right there :lol:.

[Napoleon]

mayweather vs de la hoya

Not even close.:patsch

[ROC]

I think both of those fights were too close to call either one a gift.

Ike and Oscar was close.

Tito got an early christmas gift in September

[ROC]

No he didn't.

If Oscar deserved to win the Ike fight, it was because of the 12th, and even then, it's giving him the benefit of the doubt.

That was one of the easiest of the controversial DLH fights to score.

Yeah to score it in his favor, Get over it buddy. Oscar sealed it in the 12th:hi:

[chambers80]

Reid - Ottke was a shocker in evey way!!

[mad_takamura]

here's mine:

1.pbf vs. odl.
2.em vs. dd.
3.jmm vs. pac.
4.montiel vs. gorres.
5.em vs.mab 1

[Raggamuffin]

James Toney-Dave Tiberi

[ripcity]

Pernell Whitaker-Julio Cesar Chavez.
I rewatched this last week. Yes Whataker did move backwards during the fight but he also moved forwards as well. He allways had Chavez in range. He picked Chavez apart from a distance and out worked him up close.

[Thread Stealer]

Yeah to score it in his favor, Get over it buddy. Oscar sealed it in the 12th:hi:

Sure, if you went to the Eugenia Williams school of judging, he sealed it in the 12th.

If you score fights fairly, it was a very close fight that could've easily gone to Quartey.

[MacManJr.]

here's mine:

1.pbf vs. odl.
2.em vs. dd.
3.jmm vs. pac.
4.montiel vs. gorres.
5.em vs.mab 1That works both ways because I thought Morales won the 2nd fight. Barerra clearly won the 1st one though and the 3rd was a toss up. I need to watch the 3rd one again.

[BigReg]

here's mine:

1.pbf vs. odl.
2.em vs. dd.
3.jmm vs. pac.
4.montiel vs. gorres.
5.em vs.mab 1

You're right, Oscar did get a gift in this fight. Floyd should've won by UD. The one judge had no business scoring that fight for Oscar.

[JETSKI]

1. Jermain Taylor vs. Bernard Hopkins I

2. Jermain Taylor vs. Bernard Hopkins II

3. Jermain Taylor vs. Winky Wright

One track mind!:lol:

[He Hate Me]

who are you refering to.