The greatest BJJ fighter of all time..... [Archive]

Bill Butcher

03-22-2009, 12:36 PM

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Smooth as butter.

Beebs

03-22-2009, 05:06 PM

There's different ways to define greatest, but he is in the discussion for all of them. I do think Jacare especially would be one modern BJJ fighter who would give him trouble head to head.

Vitor Belfort

03-23-2009, 02:39 AM

royce gracie said that rickson is better than him so that tells you a lot about his BJJ. I've only seen rickson fight twice in MMA against some japanese dude in pride and he dominated him when they got to the ground. Dude is pretty darn good in BJJ.

ufoalf

03-23-2009, 02:43 AM

Vitor Belfort

03-23-2009, 02:50 AM

That Japanese guy wasn't even a fighter...

he was a wrestler and at the time was considered to be pretty good. Of course his career in MMA didn't show that cuz he lost more fights than he won. But anyways rickson was very calm when he fights. You can tell his stand up suck but when he got his opponent on the ground he made it look easy.

Kestrel

03-23-2009, 04:45 AM

Rickson would get KO by today's champs.

chimba

03-23-2009, 04:41 PM

Sweet Pea

03-23-2009, 04:56 PM

royce gracie said that rickson is better than him so that tells you a lot about his BJJ.Not really. Royce is not even in the discussion when ranking the great BJJ practitioners. He's 2nd rate at best.

sugarngold

03-23-2009, 08:07 PM

Rickson Gracie. Respect.

Beebs

03-24-2009, 12:07 AM

Rickson Gracie is really Marcelo Garcia in real life.

It would be insane to think that Garcia is not the greatest BJJ fighter of all time (both Gi or no Gi).

But wait for people to say "No hes not, he lost to Jacare" lol

Roger and Jacare are both better in a gi; pound for pound and absolute. I can see the case for no gi, but those two plus a few gi specialists like Xande are better in a gi.

rusty nails

03-24-2009, 01:50 AM

that second video was just pure domination... he was toying with a guy that looked like he was no beginner..

Bill Butcher

03-24-2009, 05:30 PM

Anyone thats ever rolled with Rickson, really good BJJ guys like Paulo Filhio (spell check) & every single one of his own family from Helio to Royler all say his BJJ is leagues apart from everyone else.
Rickson doesnt like the time limits, he prefers the old way were you fight on until someone taps out or no doubt he would still enter the odd tourney, he says that prepares you for real fighting as there is no time on the street, just a winner & loser.... he has a point I guess.

ufoalf

03-24-2009, 05:37 PM

Actually Helio was talking about how he Rickson pads his record.

Bill Butcher

03-24-2009, 05:48 PM

Rickson would get KO by today's champs.

Well, he is 50.

Make no mistake, if Rickson got any of todays fighters on the ground, they would do very well not to get submitted.

The thing I like about Rickson is that he was a good wrestler too & used those skills to always try for the top position, most Gracie`s have shit wrestling & are far too willing to go to their backs, always a vulnerable position in a street/MMA fight no matter how good your bottom game is.
Rickson understood other arts better than his family members + was just plain better at pure BJJ... whether on the bottom or top.

He apparently has never been submitted since he got his black belt at 18... thats A LOT of rolling.

Bill Butcher

03-24-2009, 05:55 PM

Actually Helio was talking about how he Rickson pads his record.

Yes, he says that if he himself counted up fights in EVERY form of combat - BJJ, NHB, MMA, street fights, Judo, Sambo, wrestling tourneys etc - as Rickson does then he would have a million fights.

Doesnt mean Rickson was fighting duds in the way some boxers pad their records... he`s just saying that Ricksons 400 victories werent ALL the result of NHB fights alone or BJJ fights alone..... still fuckin impressive, to mix in all that variety of combat & never have your ass handed to you.... I dont care what generation you do it in, thats amazing.

MaliSlamusrex

03-24-2009, 06:18 PM

BJJ was invented by the Gracie's and they are the best at pure BJJ. the Gracie's themselves say Rikson is the best, I sure as hell am not going to argue with them about BJJ because they are the authority.

Beebs

03-24-2009, 09:07 PM

"The Gracies" are a fragmented group though, first between Helio and Carlson, and then mini groups on down. Carlsons side obviously still praises Rickson highly, but are a little more reserved about calling him unquestionably the best. Some say Rolls was better, some don't, but I don't think it's just as simple as Rickson being completly on his own.

Vitor Belfort

03-25-2009, 01:41 AM

Not really. Royce is not even in the discussion when ranking the great BJJ practitioners. He's 2nd rate at best.

What? Royce Gracie not in dicussion? This guy family made BJJ famous. He has been practicing BJJ since he was a kid. He is one of the best BJJ fighter out there.

amhlilhaus

03-25-2009, 06:17 PM

rusty nails

03-25-2009, 10:52 PM

has anyone noticed that in the fourth video a guy that knows absolutely nothing about jiu jitsu passes ricksons guard??? :admin

Bill Butcher

03-26-2009, 05:07 PM

has anyone noticed that in the fourth video a guy that knows absolutely nothing about jiu jitsu passes ricksons guard??? :admin

Well, it seems that they have removed that 4th vid for whatever bullshit reason but I do remember Rickson winning in all the vid`s & never looking troubled.... my guess is that the guy does know a fair bit about jiujitsu as he fought Rickson in a tournament of some kind, both wearing the gi & I never saw Rickson being mounted in any of the vid`s so to use the term `pass` his guard might be stretching the truth a little, half guard isnt a full pass, you get minimal marks for that if it goes nowhere.

Thom

03-26-2009, 06:12 PM

royce gracie said that rickson is better than him so that tells you a lot about his BJJ.

Like what? Since when was Royce considered to be one of the top BJJ players? His only real fighting accomplishments are beating a bunch of one dimensional fighters with very little knowledge of submission grappling in those famous infomercials for Gracie Jiu Jitsu....errr, I mean early UFCs.

Thom

03-26-2009, 06:15 PM

What? Royce Gracie not in dicussion? This guy family made BJJ famous. He has been practicing BJJ since he was a kid. He is one of the best BJJ fighter out there.

No, he's not.

rusty nails

03-29-2009, 10:48 PM

Well, it seems that they have removed that 4th vid for whatever bullshit reason but I do remember Rickson winning in all the vid`s & never looking troubled.... my guess is that the guy does know a fair bit about jiujitsu as he fought Rickson in a tournament of some kind, both wearing the gi & I never saw Rickson being mounted in any of the vid`s so to use the term `pass` his guard might be stretching the truth a little, half guard isnt a full pass, you get minimal marks for that if it goes nowhere.

in the rickson vs the wrestler video the wrestler isnt wearing a gi.
He pressures rickson to the ground and walks around his legs to the side and gets side control. after a little while rickson slides his knee back in then gets full guard. but he didnt "let" the guy pass.. very strange.

Beebs

03-29-2009, 11:10 PM

In my mind there is a difference between greatest and best; Royce is one of the greatest, pobably not one of the very best.

rusty nails

03-30-2009, 01:32 AM

In my mind there is a difference between greatest and best; Royce is one of the greatest, pobably not one of the very best.

then by greatest you mean most celebrated?

OuterDrake

03-30-2009, 08:21 AM

That wrestler in the last vid would have made a great mma fighter, even more than the average Gracie.

Polymath

03-30-2009, 01:18 PM

There's different ways to define greatest, but he is in the discussion for all of them. I do think Jacare especially would be one modern BJJ fighter who would give him trouble head to head.

How about this definition: who's the best at MMA/Fighting? If thats what BJJ was originally for, that should be the ultimate arbiter; Rickson doesn't come into this discussion, but someone like Nog might...

Bill Butcher

03-31-2009, 05:30 PM

How about this definition: who's the best at MMA/Fighting? If thats what BJJ was originally for, that should be the ultimate arbiter; Rickson doesn't come into this discussion, but someone like Nog might...

To be fair, Rickson was about 35 or 36 yrs old when MMA was barely born, UFC 1-5 roughly, he fought in a couple of Japanese tournies aswell as pride 1 & 4, he never fought great fighters because there were hardly any to fight but those he did fight were beaten with ease & ALL finished by submission inside distance.
Its unfair to expect a 40 yr old Rickson to fight guys like Wand & Nog when they were in their mid 20s.

Minotauro

03-31-2009, 06:21 PM

Rickson Gracie is really Marcelo Garcia in real life.

It would be insane to think that Garcia is not the greatest BJJ fighter of all time (both Gi or no Gi).

But wait for people to say "No hes not, he lost to Jacare" lol

Terere beat him twice. Marcelo had no answer for him.

A lot of Rickson's legacy is built on stories not saying that there isn't some truth in them. I've read when Saulo was dominating everyone he was the best in the world he rolled with Rickson and there were miles difference Rickson even joked that Saulo should gives his black belt back to Royler. But I've also read that Schembri was able to tap Rickson once, so who knows. His technique is amazing though so smooth.

ufoalf

03-31-2009, 06:42 PM

Terere beat him twice. Marcelo had no answer for him.

Being half the size might have something to do with it. Jacare just took his arm and put a kimura on him. It was very simple.

Minotauro

03-31-2009, 07:26 PM

Being half the size might have something to do with it. Jacare just took his arm and put a kimura on him. It was very simple.

Half his size? Terere is not that big he is smaller then Jacare and him and Marcelo grappled at the same weight it wasn't in the open weight. Terere even fought in mma at 170 he would be a fairly small 170 as well.

Here is a pic of Terere and Galvao (who also grapples at the same weight as Garcia)
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Don't try to down play Terere wins over Garcia he was an absolute beast in his prime and had it not lost it on that plane he would probably still be dominating just look how Galvao and Moraes (both his students) are doing.

ufoalf

03-31-2009, 08:43 PM

Half his size? Terere is not that big he is smaller then Jacare and him and Marcelo grappled at the same weight it wasn't in the open weight. Terere even fought in mma at 170 he would be a fairly small 170 as well.

Here is a pic of Terere and Galvao (who also grapples at the same weight as Garcia)
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Don't try to down play Terere wins over Garcia he was an absolute beast in his prime and had it not lost it on that plane he would probably still be dominating just look how Galvao and Moraes (both his students) are doing.

Dont get too heated sweetheart.
I'm talking about Jacare's wins over Garcia.
Et6HRk72Fqc

Minotauro

03-31-2009, 08:56 PM

If you were talking about Jacare why did you quote me? I never even mentioned him.

Bill Butcher

04-04-2009, 02:31 PM

Terere beat him twice. Marcelo had no answer for him.

A lot of Rickson's legacy is built on stories not saying that there isn't some truth in them. I've read when Saulo was dominating everyone he was the best in the world he rolled with Rickson and there were miles difference Rickson even joked that Saulo should gives his black belt back to Royler. But I've also read that Schembri was able to tap Rickson once, so who knows. His technique is amazing though so smooth.

I find it hard to believe Schembri tapped Rickson, everyone would have heard about that one.

Imperial1

04-04-2009, 03:01 PM

Great footage man :good

MaliSlamusrex

04-04-2009, 09:13 PM

Nothing in this thread has changed my mind its Rikson Gracie.

Vic-JofreBRASIL

12-03-2010, 10:59 AM

Royler Gracie was the best !!

196osh

12-03-2010, 11:18 AM

The greatest BJJ fighter of all time is this guy:

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Results speak for themselves no conjecture.

Beebs

12-03-2010, 11:35 AM

Are we talking the best BJJ practioner in terms of winning BJJ competitions, of the best BJJ fighter who does what BJJ was invented for, Vale Tudo.

Nog is a very strong candidate if we are talking about BJJ fighters

sugarngold

12-03-2010, 11:55 AM

Rickson Gracie.

moreorless

12-03-2010, 12:28 PM

Rickson stood out more than any of the current guys do during his prime but the standard of BJJ has IMHO moved on since then as its popularity has mushroomed.

196osh

12-03-2010, 02:25 PM

Rickson Gracie.

Roger is better.

El Bujia

12-03-2010, 03:17 PM

As far as pure grappling goes, I don't know what to think of Rickson in comparison to guys like Roger, Jacare, Marcelo, etc. Those guys are the best for my money, Roger especially. Rickson has a lot of prestige, but not a lot of proof. Honestly, I'd favor Arona over a lot of the more reknowned names, at least in no-gi. He's just a terrible matchup.

Beebs

12-03-2010, 03:36 PM

Rickson stood out more than any of the current guys do during his prime but the standard of BJJ has IMHO moved on since then as its popularity has mushroomed.

I think that sums it up very nicely.

Beebs

12-03-2010, 03:39 PM

Honestly, I'd favor Arona over a lot of the more reknowned names, at least in no-gi. He's just a terrible matchup.

Very good point, I forget the fighter, but somebody recently said that Arona could still win ADCC. Also he is renowned pretty well in his own right, undefeated in ADCC, 2 division titles, 1 openweight title, one superfight win against a prime Mark Kerr.

evalistinho

12-03-2010, 03:58 PM

pablo popovitch is sick at bjj as well :D

Beebs

12-03-2010, 04:32 PM

pablo popovitch is sick at bjj as well :D

Incredibly sick, and he might just have the most technical wrestling ability of any of the top sub grapplers or BJJ guys at the moment. Also he is a physical specimen, much more so than most top level grapplers.

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He is the current ADCC champion at 77kg
CBJJ no gi world champ at 85kg and absolute
Copa America gi and no gi champion at absolute
And a ton of other lesser titles.

And the best part, he is now fighting MMA, winning his first fight.

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evalistinho

12-03-2010, 04:36 PM

i was being biased beebs cus he is my master but yes he is insane

i saw his first fight live as well he got knocked down but he kept calm and destroyed the guy

Beebs

12-03-2010, 05:23 PM

i was being biased beebs cus he is my master but yes he is insane

i saw his first fight live as well he got knocked down but he kept calm and destroyed the guy

You train under him? That is amazing, any stories?

Do you have a vid of the fight, I can't find one.

evalistinho

12-03-2010, 05:45 PM

You train under him? That is amazing, any stories?

Do you have a vid of the fight, I can't find one.

hes really a laid back dude and is really funny once he feels comfortable about you

he talks about his rivalry with Marcelo Garcia. Garcia has gotten the upper hand a couple times before but it was sweet redemption when he beat him at the ADCC last year.

He says he considers Marcelo to be one of the best if not the best in the world at no-gi but hates him cus Garcia is a douchebag and an asshole. He also said that as good as Garcia is he is not a good teacher he has no patience at teaching and doesnt give good instructions. He also laughs at Garcias attempt at MMA

Also talks a lot about American Top Team how Pablo first started out there and said ATT are a bunch of money grabbing people that exploit their fighters and take advantage of them thats why he left and created his own school. ATT hate him but he stays quiet cus lately a lot of the people from our school have been beating ATT at competition a lot so he just lays back and watches ATT crumble.

Pablo is an insane teacher strong as fuck yet uses no strength or energy whatsoever. I actually like rolling with him cus he doesnt even attack he just defends and just destroys me easily when you go with the other blue belts you beat up on each other more but he does it so smoothly and easily he just kicks you ass in the nicest way and doesnt even break a sweat he even chews gum everytime he rolls. :D

he used to teach all classes but he has now chosen to only teach from purple belts and up so he has two other black belts teach the white belts and blue belts. Im blue so ill be working with him soon again. Im training with his top Black Belt Vagner Rocha dont know if you have heard from him but hes great as well once i get to purple ill be back with training with Pablo.

I know i got the fight somewhere im gonna try to post it.

Beebs

12-03-2010, 05:49 PM

That is great.

Off topic, but do you happen to know what his ancestry is? I assume it is Slavic of some sort, possibly Serbian. Sorry, but I am a bit of a nerd about the Balkans.

evalistinho

12-03-2010, 06:01 PM

That is great.

Off topic, but do you happen to know what his ancestry is? I assume it is Slavic of some sort, possibly Serbian. Sorry, but I am a bit of a nerd about the Balkans.

never asked him personally but from what the other black belts told me his grandparents were russian

Vic-JofreBRASIL

12-03-2010, 08:32 PM

Roberto Roleta deserves a shout ! One of my faves !

moreorless

12-04-2010, 01:28 AM

Very good point, I forget the fighter, but somebody recently said that Arona could still win ADCC. Also he is renowned pretty well in his own right, undefeated in ADCC, 2 division titles, 1 openweight title, one superfight win against a prime Mark Kerr.

I'v often been said that ADCC is a signifcantly less "control" friendly enviroment these days though. I'v not really watched much of the old days but werent the rules more favourible to it back then? the BJJ fighters certainly seem to have adapted to a no Gi enviorment better these days aswell.

Beebs

12-04-2010, 03:54 AM

I'm not sure exactly how the rules have changed to be honest.

moreorless

12-04-2010, 06:23 AM

I'm not sure exactly how the rules have changed to be honest.

Looking at the rules I'd guess that the option for the ref to deduct points for inactivity(including just sitting in guard not atempting to pass) didnt exist in the early days.

yaca you

12-04-2010, 07:00 AM

Im going with marcelo garcia

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ufoalf

12-04-2010, 06:54 PM

I think Marcelo has the slickest BJJ on this continent. That guy is a spider monkey. As far as teaching goes, all I can say is that I have friend who trained under him for 3 months and his skills increased TREMENDOUSLY. Whether it's because he got to roll with him or because he just trained really hard I'm not sure. Don't know Marcelo personally and never trained with him but from what I know couple of people who trained under him improved drastically.

Popovich's school is definitely strong. They're always represented very strong in Copa and Naga, not sure about ADCC tryouts and stuff on that scale.